Is Graduate School Worth It? Navigating Career Goals, Curiosity, and Lifelong Learning

Summary

Podcast Summary: Is Graduate School Worth It? Navigating Career Goals, Curiosity, and Lifelong Learning

Cattle Chat (BCI Cattle Chat), July 10, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode of Cattle Chat delves into the pressing question many students face: Is graduate school worth it? Host Brad White and the BCI team are joined by special guest Mattie Manke—a soon-to-be PhD graduate—to discuss motivations for pursuing graduate education, how grad school compares to undergrad, the importance of lifelong learning, and actionable advice for those considering advanced degrees. Drawing from personal and professional experiences in veterinary and cattle research, the discussion offers insights relevant to students, early-career professionals, and those navigating choices in the beef industry.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Marvel Warm-Up: Getting to Know the Crew

• Fun ice-breaker where hosts and guests share which Marvel character they'd be, revealing personal traits and setting a relaxed tone.
  • Bob picks Spider-Man ("I think swinging around on webs would be cool and snarky comments." – Bob, 01:40)
  • Dustin goes for Captain America for his strong moral center.
  • Mattie names Deadpool, her main Marvel touchpoint, attracted by humor despite not knowing the universe well.

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2. Mattie’s Journey: The Path to Grad School

[04:44 – 06:12]

• Mattie's story begins unconventionally, struggling in high school, taking a gap year, working construction, and eventually finding passion in animal science at community college.
• A spark was lit during a feedyard internship when she craved the "why" behind cattle nutrition.
• A conversation with a consulting nutritionist (with a PhD) was pivotal:

  "I'll never forget sitting in the back of his jeep that day and I was like, I want a PhD somewhere Beef cattle related." – Mattie, 05:13

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3. Curiosity, Lifelong Learning, and the ‘Why’ of Research

[06:12 – 08:10]

• Grad school is framed as a journey fueled by curiosity—every answered question spawns more inquiries.
• Mattie:

  “As we design trials…you usually end up with a million more questions after that trial...I think that's the beauty of research…you’re realizing the vast range of rabbit holes you can go down.” (06:32)

• The group differentiates between teaching curiosity and teaching students how to pursue and harness it.

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4. What Should a Grad Student Really Learn?

[08:34 – 11:51]

• Foundational Skills:
  • Bob emphasizes math and communication as critical, regardless of industry:

    “The foundational things to understand the world are math and communication...math, reading, writing, and arithmetic...it's kind of the basis of K through 12, it's honestly the basis of learning anything new.” (08:34)

  • Phillip adds the importance of science fundamentals, especially chemistry and biology.
• Purpose-Driven Learning:
  • Graduate education depends on the job or field; it could be coursework, apprenticeships, or research.
  • Dustin clarifies the difference between undergrad and grad expectations—graduate students must go deeper (more theory, more math, more analytical/data skills) but should still explain concepts simply:

    “If [grad students] can't explain it like they're teaching or talking [in] a 100 level class, then you’ve really failed at your job.” – Dustin, 11:11

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5. The Big Differences: Grad School vs. Undergrad

[11:51 – 13:23]

• Mattie:

  “In undergrad, you're lectured to, and you're taught knowledge and you retain it and you give it back on an exam. Grad school makes you question everything that you're told...It teaches you to critically think and to ask questions and why is it this way?...But with critical thinking, you have to have some sort of self-motivation with that.” (12:19)

• Brad highlights the elevated independence and self-designed learning path in grad school—students "create the roadmap," versus following a syllabus.

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6. Choosing the Right Program: Advisor vs. Program Model

[14:16 – 17:59]

• Advisor Model (Animal Sciences):
  • Mattie recounts the best advice given to her:

    “Pick a professor, not a school...the professor you pick to advise your program, that name is with your career for the rest of your life and vice versa.” (14:16)

  • Pre-acceptance networking—working with your potential future advisor—is invaluable.
• Department/Program Model (Ag Economics):
  • Dustin counters:

    “Don’t go to K State for one individual, because what happens if said individual leaves?...it's more about the program, the reputation.” (15:19)

  • Students start broad, then select a professor after experiencing department culture.
• Student advice: Always talk to current grad students to get the "real story" about a program, not just faculty perspectives (17:02 onwards).

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7. Pros & Cons: The Reality of Grad School Life

[18:56 – 21:36]

• Positives:
  • Independence & trust from mentors breeds professional growth:

    “You look back on it, you get through it, and you're like, okay, I did that...That was me. I think that really builds you as a person and a professional.” (19:08)

  • Peer and professional relationships lead to lifelong connections and job networks.
• Challenges:
  • The same independence can be daunting—being "thrown to the wolves" at times, before realizing true growth.
  • Flexibility is needed; goals and research can evolve.

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8. Should You Go to Grad School? Advice Roundtable

[22:22 – 25:38]

Key Takeaways from Each Panelist:

• Philip:

  “Are you thinking grad school because you can’t find the job you want out of undergrad or because you really want to go to grad school and does the job you want require a graduate degree?” (22:22)

• Bob:

  “The purpose to go to grad school is your career...grad school really does open some doors that would be difficult to open otherwise...But in other ways it kind of narrows down the jobs...So in some ways it narrows your job. Make sure that’s really what you want to do.” (24:02)

• Dustin:

  “What's your objective? What's your goal?...Do not go to grad school just because, ‘Well, I don't have a job.’ That's the wrong reason...it's expensive, it's taking time away, the opportunity costs are crazy." (24:06)

  • $59,000 is the average starting salary for ag econ undergrads; grad school sacrifices this earning potential, so make sure the long-term payoff is worth it.
• Mattie:

  “You got to go to grad school because your future career depends on it...If you treat it that way...that gives you a different perspective as you go through grad school.” (24:54)

• Brad:

  “If you're thinking about going to grad school, go visit three [programs]...you're making an investment...and your investment in the future—you would not make an investment without a comparison.” (25:43)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the relentless nature of research:

  “You usually end up with a million more questions after that trial...the beauty of research is it really can be never ending.” — Mattie, 06:32

• On critical differentiation between undergrad and grad school:

  “Grad school makes you question everything that you're told...It teaches you to critically think.” — Mattie, 12:19

• Actionable, proven advice:

  “Go visit [at least] three [programs]...your final comparison might be no grad school, which is what Philip was saying. And any of those are good options.” — Brad, 25:43

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Segment Timestamps

• 00:09 – 04:06: Intros & Marvel warm-up
• 04:44 – 06:12: Mattie’s educational journey and motivation for graduate school
• 06:12 – 08:10: Curiosity, research, and why choosing grad school matters
• 08:34 – 11:51: Foundational and advanced skills for graduate success
• 11:51 – 13:23: Undergrad vs Grad: Critical thinking & motivation
• 14:16 – 17:59: Choosing the right advisor or program, differences by field
• 18:56 – 21:36: Pros, cons, challenges, and flexibility in grad school
• 22:22 – 25:38: Rapid-fire advice to prospective students

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Summary Table: Major Takeaways

| Topic | Key Advice/Summary | |-----------------------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | Motivation for Grad School | Go only if the career you want truly requires it | | Skills You’ll Build | Critical thinking, research independence, lifelong learning | | Choosing a Program | In some fields, pick the advisor; in others, focus on the department’s breadth and strength | | Career Impact vs. Costs | Weigh opportunity costs; don’t see grad school as a “filler”—it’s a costly, high-investment decision | | Visit Multiple Programs | Tour at least three (even within your current school); talk to students for real perspective | | Networking is Critical | Grad school builds lifelong peer/professional relationships in your field | | Embrace Flexibility | Your research and career direction may evolve—choose a program that can adapt with you |

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Conclusion

The episode provides a nuanced, honest look at graduate school for aspiring veterinary and beef industry professionals. Key guidance: Know your long-term goals, weigh costs carefully, research programs and advisors, and be ready for a journey of independence, curiosity, and ongoing learning.

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For future topics or questions, email the hosts at bcisu@edu.

Transcript

[A]

Hi, welcome to PCI Cattle Chat. I'm Brad White. Happy to have you with us and happy to have our crew here in the studio. Morning, Bob.

[B]

Good morning, Phillip.

[C]

Morning, guys.

[A]

Dustin, good morning. And our guest today is Mattie Manke. Welcome, Mattie.

[D]

Good morning, everyone.

[A]

So Maddie's finishing her PhD this summer, unbelievably. So she's going to share with us a little bit, go to grad school and what grad school is like. And we were just talking before we got on as people decide, should I go to college, should I go to graduate school? I thought it'd be a good topic to kind of dive into a little bit. So we'll do that with Maddie. If you have a question or a topic you'd like us to discuss, you can send us an email at bcisu Edu. And I wanted to kind of get a feel for you guys, learn a little bit more about your personalities today. So with the question that I have. So we've been watching catch up. So I've got four boys. So we're catching up on the Avengers movies. So we've been watching the Marvel movies and I wanted to know which character, if you were going to be a character from one of those Marvel Avengers movies, which character that you'd like to be. And notice I did not limit it to. You don't have to be a hero. You could be one of the other people. Yeah, you could be the villain or you could be a hero from one of the Marvel movies. Who, who would you be?

[B]

Oh, you know, Spider man would be fun. Just because I think swinging around on

[A]

webs would be cool and snarky comments.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

But can you do that with your Norwegian?

[B]

I figured you had a natural fit. I didn't say a natural fit.

[C]

He's already got the snarky comments part down. I think all he needs is some web slingers.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And he's good to go.

[B]

Iron man would be kind of fun too.

[A]

Iron Man. But you got to make a choice. You can't be everyone.

[B]

All right, so I'm gonna stick with. I'm gonna stick with Spider man because even as a kid, I like Spider Man.

[A]

Spider Man. I had you picked for a Thor.

[C]

Yeah, that's where I was going. I was going thor.

[A]

You're going Thor.

[C]

Okay, I was. That's what I was thinking. That I was thinking that or I was thinking maybe Incredible Hulk, but that

[A]

mild mannered guy, split personality is the appealing part.

[C]

Maybe

[A]

Dustin's looking up Marvel people.

[B]

No.

[E]

Well, I was looking up One particular one because. And that's. Is it Captain America? Yeah, that's. Yeah. Just.

[B]

Yeah, he's kind of just. There's no.

[E]

He doesn't have a superpower, per se.

[A]

No. He got injected with super serum. I gotta go into all the details.

[E]

Yeah, he did take the serum, but

[C]

he's super strong for.

[E]

He's strong. His speed, I mean, there's a good guy and it's. It's. He's got a shield. Right?

[B]

I mean, that's Right.

[E]

So that's probably who I.

[C]

What I'm. So I'm sitting here trying to think, there's the Marvel characters and then what's the other one? I can't remember.

[B]

The DC comics.

[C]

Is that it?

[B]

You know, like with Superman and Batman and.

[A]

Universe.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Separate.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, I know. That's what I'm trying. I know they're separate universes. And since you said Marvel, so I was trying to make sure I didn't pick somebody that was from the other universe.

[E]

You picked.

[A]

Right. Maddie, have you watched these movies?

[D]

No. The characters, they sound familiar, but I don't think I've ever watched those movies. I think a Marvel character movie that I have watched has Ryan Reynolds in it. He plays Deadpool. Yes.

[A]

That's who you want to be.

[D]

I don't know if that's who I'd want to be, but that's. The movies that I have watched. They're hilarious. So maybe. Maybe I would. I would go for that just because.

[E]

Yes.

[D]

That's all I know.

[A]

Copious use of bad language, which we'll avoid here today.

[D]

Yeah. It's a funny movie.

[E]

How about yourself?

[A]

I would probably. I probably would have gone with Spider man had Bob not picked Spider man, but.

[B]

Yeah, it's the web sling.

[A]

Yeah, that's just. It's the web slinging or Ironman is pretty good, too.

[E]

So. Yeah.

[A]

Lots of good ones to choose from. So we're enjoying the heck out of watching back through those again. But, Mattie, I'm glad you could join us today. One of the things that. And I put you on the spot by not giving you a lot of time to prep and come in here and visit with us, but we talk to students frequently as faculty of. I'm making the decision if I want to go to grad school or not go to grad school, and I thought it was a topic that merited some discussion because it' obviously different for everybody, and it's not always natural after you go to undergrad that you would go to grad school. So tell us about your decision of why you wanted to go to grad school.

[D]

Yeah, so my, my schooling is a little untraditional. As I, I struggled in high school, I, I did, I did not like high school, which made me feel like I wasn't going to go to college. So I took a gap year after high school and worked construction with my dad and realized I did want to go back to school. And so I happened to just kind of fall into an animal science program at a community college back home and really enjoyed that. And that first summer in college, I did an internship at a commercial feed yard and I really liked that. And I would ask those guys out there, why are you doing this? Why are you doing that? Why not this, why not that? And they're like, well, this is our job, this is what we're told to do. And I real, I really wanted to know the science behind it.

[A]

And you didn't want to be doing something. You didn't know why and you wanted

[D]

to understand it, right? Yeah, I wanted, I wanted to know, I wanted to know the science behind it. And so I spent a day with their consulting nutritionist and he told me he had a PhD in ruminant nutrition. And that completely blew my mind. And I'll never forget sitting in the back of his jeep that day and I was like, I want a PhD somewhere Beef cattle related. So I ended up transferring to K State and then finishing my undergrad degr degree here and staying on with the BCI. But I from 2018, I knew that's what I wanted to do. I wanted the science behind why we, why we feed cattle.

[A]

And so then you're thinking about grad school and you want to go figure out some of that why. And there's options of what you can study, how you can study it. But as you've gone through grad school, have you been able to better understand that why or has it led to more questions?

[D]

It's made me more passionate about that why. But yeah, as we design trials and we design trials to answer a question, you usually end up with a million more questions after that trial. And so I think that's the beauty of research is it really can be never ending because you're kind of just getting started when you're in grad school, you're realizing the vast range of kind of rabbit holes you can go down within the research real. But yeah, it's finding a group that really fits what your interests are and they provide the resources to be able to kind of chase your dreams.

[C]

Well, I Think it fits with one of the things that we talk about, and I think In K through 12 education, they try to talk about this too, is developing students to be lifelong learners. And I think grad school, one of the things it does is it helps you develop curiosity. And so that. I mean that those two things go together. You have that curiosity to figure something out or to learn something new. And you're constantly going to be trying to learn those new things and. And chase that curiosity of wherever is leading you.

[A]

I'm going to. I might modify what you're saying because I don't think we can teach curiosity, but I think we can teach good ways to go with your curiosity, good ways to move it forward, and good ways to harness the outcomes of it.

[C]

I think there's a difference. Teaching curiosity, probably. No. Developing somebody's curiosity. Yes, yes.

[A]

Giving them ways to explore their curiosity. Which leads me to my question for you guys is because I really like Maddie's explanation. Right. I wanted to figure out the why, but then as you get into it, you can't answer all the questions. So for you guys, when you have a grad student come through your programs, obviously you're teaching them specific skills. What are one or two core things you really want them to learn through that program?

[B]

Well, so we'll throw this out here. It's the foundational things to understand the world are math and communication. In that everything, whether it's economics or construction or anything, is all built on one plus one and angles that you learned in trigonometry. And some of us. I can remember learning trigonometry at the same time I was learning to lay out rafters in my shop class, and it struck me that, oh, these two things are related. So I'll go back to the foundations of math, reading, writing, and arithmetic. To be very honest, it's kind of the basis of K through 12. It's honestly the basis of learning anything new.

[C]

I'd throw science in there too, like chemistry or biology, and those are basis for almost everything that we need in the natural world.

[A]

Do I need to go to grad school to get those?

[B]

Oh, it all depends on the job. Like I said, I'll even go back to my story about I was taking trigonometry at the same time I was learning to lay out rafters. And there were some kids in my shop class that honestly picked up the laying out rafters quicker than I did, and they did not take trichonometry. So I'm saying those are the underlying skills, how much you need to understand the foundation and how much you need to apply, it depends on your job. And so as long as you have the skills to do the job that you want to do, that may involve, it usually involves some sort of education that may be on the job, apprenticeship, it may be a short term training, it may be a lot of training, but basically it's. You get this. There's both. What. Because we already had the discussion of can you train somebody to be curious? Well, in some ways, can you train anyone to do anything? All I can really do is give them some of the skills and then if they had the interest, it's a combination of what someone else taught you and how you figured out how to apply it. And that's true for, I think every single person whether, no matter what job they take.

[A]

So, Dustin, you teach both undergrad and graduates. What do you expect to see different in graduate students than you do in undergrads?

[E]

It's just a little deeper, right? I mean, the, the maybe you do a little more theory, there's maybe a little more math. Actually in econ, it's a lot more math behind the theory. But at the end of the day, if those grad students, we still, if they can't explain it like they're teaching or talking, taking a 100 level class, then you've really fail at your job

[A]

expectations.

[E]

A lot of the same kinds of things that we do at the undergrad is just at a little higher level. A little more math involved, a little more theory, a little more, A lot more quantitative skills, actually a lot more analytical data skills that you would expect because they're coding in various software programs that we wouldn't maybe necessarily see at the undergraduate level.

[A]

Well, and I think you get into the critical thinking and some of the other aspects. And Matti, what have you learned through your program? Because I think Dustin highlighted a couple things. One, when you teach something, you really start to learn. And two, as you start thinking about critical thinking, what did you pick up through your program that was maybe different than undergrad? Or tell me, if you were to talk to a student and say, hey, here's the difference between grad school and undergrad in your words, what is that big difference.

[D]

Yeah, you said it. It's the critical thinking aspect of it. In undergrad, you're lectured too, and you're taught knowledge and you retain it and you give it back on an exam. Grad school makes you question everything that you're told. So it's a completely different mindset. It teaches you to critically think and to ask questions and why is it this way? It makes you look at the world statistically, which might not sound appealing to a lot of people, but I love that and I think that's the biggest thing. But with critical thinking, you have to have some sort of self motivation with that. You gotta want to critical critically think. So that's another, that's another big difference between undergraduate and graduate programs is especially our program is pretty self led. So you gotta have the ambition and the motivation to do your work and be passionate about it too. So it's set up differently that way also.

[A]

Well, and I think you're absolutely right, the level of independence. So in undergraduate you're given a syllabus, you do these things, you get through this class, you take the test, you're done in graduate school, you're given more of a direction, you're moving in this direction. Here's where we need to go. You actually create the roadmap, you create the syllabus, you create what is part of that program. Now this varies program to program and you said this earlier, but I'd highlight it, pick your program wisely. So go visit, talk to them. What does this program look like? Because undergraduate programs, there's a lot of them that have a similarity in the amount of courses you're going to need to take. How do you account for some of that? And you've seen some of the variability among programs. If you were starting a new program, what would be your recommendation to a student to pick the right program for them?

[D]

The biggest piece of advice I got when looking at graduate programs was to pick a professor, not a school. A lot of people, they have big dreams of going to this certain school to be alumni from this school and that that might be cool, but the professor you pick to advise your program that that name is with, with your career for the rest of your life and vice versa. So I think getting to know your, your PI, your main professor and you both being on the same page of what your program's going to look like and that camaraderie there that that would be, my advice is to get to know your professor. I was pretty lucky with you. I got to work, work for you for a summer. So I, I kind of got my feet in the door before I made that commitment and I knew I wasn't leaving so. But having those opportunities to be able to work with that person and know that it's a good decision for both

[A]

of you, I think that's huge both ways.

[E]

So I'm going to push Back a little bit. So econ, we're different, a lot different than most for a variety of reasons. But when I was a director of our grad system, I was in charge of all recruiting. Recruiting for all the programs. Right. All the students come in at the same time. They take all the same classes. And I always would tell a student, don't go to K State for one individual, because what happens if said individual leaves? Said individual's got to got too many grad students and he can't work work with you. And so it's more about the program, the reputation. And what's nice, at least in my department is right. We've got four, five, six livestock economists. You cannot say that across the country. I mean, if you want livestock economics, I mean, K State is the place to come. And so if, let's say Dr. Schroeder is, you know, he's got eight grad students, he's like, man, I cannot take another one. Well, guess what, you can work with Glenn Tonzer, myself, others, and they're still going to have access to ted.

[A]

But through that program, you get to know the different faculty that first year, which is exactly what Matti was saying. And then you kind of figure out, can I work with this person or that person? Because in most grad programs, it does come down. What I liked is of her comments, it's down to those relationships. When you get into a grad program, those relationships between professor and student are different than they are in a didactic classroom program that you get in undergrad, right?

[E]

Yep. And then also I'd say the relationships between students, that is super critical. And you could probably spend all day talking.

[A]

So talk to the other students that have been in that program because they need to be able to tell you the real story of what it's actually like. Because I'm going to tell you as a professor, this program is fantastic.

[E]

Exactly. And that's what I tell all prospective grad students. You can come talk to me, you can come talk to all the professors and they're gonna give you their side. But if you want the true story, go talk to the grad students. They will tell you what it's like.

[C]

Well, I think one big difference that I see that like in Ag Econ, you guys bring students in and they're there for a year or close to a year, maybe taking classes and doing, maybe doing a little bit of work here and there, but they haven't really picked a major professor yet. Whereas, like here or in animal science or some other degree programs, it's the individual professor that takes the student on, not the department. And so picking. Those are two different types of programs of the way they function.

[A]

You've got to know which one you're getting into in broad categories. That's what you see in grad programs. There are a few graduate programs that are course based that you're going to do all courses all the way through. And in those, you may be able to pick out on paper, but for the other ones that we've talked about, you got to do a site visit, you got to meet the people, you got to talk to them. You've got to talk to the students that have gone through that program. So, Matti, what. What, as you've thought about this in retrospect, give me one or two things that were really positive and maybe one or two things that were really challenging that you appreciated on the back side. So what were. What were one or two things that maybe you didn't think of going into it either? People you worked with, students you worked with, Other things you got to see that were on the positive. And one or two things that. Boy, that was hard.

[D]

Yeah, I think. I think most of my examples here could be flipped one way or the other. You know, there's. There's a, you know, a pro and a con to it. One thing is I. I've loved the independence that I've had through this program and the trust that you guys have given me to do my trials in the moment. It might seem really scary, and I'm like, why am I not getting help? Or, you know, they're throwing me to the wolves, or, you know, but then it, you know, you look back on it, you get through it, and you're like, okay, I did that. Like, that. That was me. I think that really builds you as a person and a professional, especially going into the industry that we are in.

[A]

But also some of your biggest challenges give you the most satisfaction when you get through it.

[D]

Of course. Yeah. And I think that's what grad school is. Grad school is a challenge, but you get to the end of it and you're like, I did this. You know, kind of pat yourself on the back. And relationships have been so big in grad school. You're working with other students that you're. You're going to work with for the rest of your life. You know, whether that is closely or, you know, you see each other at conferences. I think. Yeah. The lifelong connections and the networking that has been provided to, you know, I'm speaking on our program. But the networking and relationships that have been built through our program sets you up to go out into the industry or academia, and people know your name, you know other people's names, and I think that's huge. You're not, you're not leaving a PhD program and not knowing anyone or not knowing where to go.

[A]

Yeah, I think that's exactly right. Picking the right program helps you get into. So it's field driven. Right. So if you want to do ag econ, Dustin's got some good ideas. If you want to do something else, you need to figure out what do you want to do and how you go into it.

[E]

And.

[A]

And you said initially one of your thoughts was PhD in feedlot nutrition. And so then you've kind of evolved, which we don't have the right program for that, of where you want to get. So you have to have an idea of your direction before you select the right program for you.

[D]

Yeah. Have a. Have a direction you want to go, but also be willing to be a little flexible. Programs change. You know, I've been here for four years, and where I am now is not where we thought I was going to be when I, you know, started the program. So having that flexibility, but also knowing that, you know, your end goal is still there, you're still working towards that.

[A]

Yep. And that's. And that's okay. As you evolve, you just got to be sure you're in a program that can evolve with you as you go through the process. And you mentioned some of the challenges, opportunities. You've led two major trials throughout the summer, in fact. This is the first summer you've spent in Manhattan.

[D]

Yes.

[A]

Last summer of your program. The first summer you've spent here.

[D]

Yeah. And not in a feed yard.

[E]

Yeah.

[A]

So knowing that we don't have enough time to talk about calf pneumonia, we'll talk about that another day. But I wanted to ask you guys, okay, you've got a student that's contemplating grad school, yes or no? Give me one piece of advice. And I'm going to go around and start with Philip. And I want everybody to give me one piece of advice for the student contemplating grad school. Yes or no, Philip?

[C]

Well, I guess the simple thing to. I guess. Well, kind of. I'll say. I'll say kind of two things, but I think they're kind of related. One, are you thinking grad school because you can't find the job you want out of undergrad or because you really want to go to grad school and does the job you want require a graduate degree.

[A]

So understand your job that you want. Yeah, for sure.

[B]

Bob. I'm going to kind of, I'll go off of that idea that the purpose to go to grad school is your career. It's the way you're going to make a living for the rest of your life. And so it's really. Does this enhance because you know, we talked about it is a lot of self directed learning. Well, you can do self directed learning in an unstructured environment and train yourself and sometimes that'll open the doors you need. But sometimes grad school really does open some doors that would be difficult to open otherwise. But that's really comes down to it. Think about your lifelong career and the job and the other thing that is a positive for graduate school. It does set you up for, I'm going to say it actually opposites. It increases the number of jobs because you have the ability to do critical thinking. You can do jobs that weren't exactly the way you were trained. But in other ways it kind of narrows down the jobs in that if you're really going to use your graduate degree, you're going to have to be in a position where some of this curiosity and exploring and research and different things are a part of your job. So in some ways it narrows your job. Make sure that that's really what you want to do.

[A]

Dustin, I think Bob took what I

[E]

was going to say. I was just going to say a little different. And that is what's your objective? What's your goal? That's really what Bob was getting at. Do not go to grad school just because, well, I don't have a job. And that's the, for me that's the wrong reasons, you know, well, it's expensive,

[B]

it's taken time away, the opportunity costs are crazy.

[E]

I mean it takes a long time to recover, especially because, so last year, 2025, the average starting salary for an undergraduate nag econ here at K State was $59,000. You better have a plan why you want to go to grad school because you're giving up that opportunity cost for two years for a master's or three or four years for a PhD. I mean that's, that's a lot and that takes a long time to pay for itself. And so what's your goal? What's your objective? Why do you really want to do that?

[A]

Yeah, Maddie.

[D]

Yeah, I this piggybacks off of all three of you guys again, just a little differently. You got, you got to go to grad school because Your future career depends on it. I think that will set you up to get through your program successfully, not using it as a time filler. But go into your graduate program knowing that your future depends on this and there's some flexibility there. You know, you don't always stay on like the same track, but if you treat it that way that you know you need to be there for your future, I think that gives you a different perspective as you go through grad school.

[A]

Your future depends on this. Spoken like a true Deadpool from the start there.

[D]

Okay, maybe I haven't watched it that many times.

[A]

I will say an actionable thing to do would be if you're thinking about going to grad school, go visit three because you're making an investment and this is what you guys are saying. And your investment in the future, you would not make an investment without a comparison. So go visit. Even if you're at a school and you're like, I'm going to go to grad school here, that could be three different colleges, departments, groups within the school that you're at, you could go visit somewhere else, get some comparisons. This is what it looks like. And your final comparison might be no grad school, which is what Philip was saying. And any of those are good options. Matty, really appreciate you visiting with us because I think this is very insightful for some of those who are making some decisions relative to what am I going to do this fall. So appreciate all of your insights on that. If you have questions or topics for us to discuss, you could always send us an [e-mail]. it.