Managing Body Conditioning in Cows, Cause and Management of Weak Calves

Summary

Cattle Chat Podcast Summary

Episode: Managing Body Conditioning in Cows, Cause and Management of Weak Calves
Date: January 30, 2026

---

Episode Overview

This episode of Cattle Chat from the Beef Cattle Institute team at Kansas State University focuses on two crucial cattle management topics:

1. Managing body condition in cows as winter ends and calving season approaches.
2. Understanding and addressing the causes and management of weak calves in cow-calf operations.

Hosts Dr. Brad White (A), Dr. Bob (B), Dr. Jason (C), and Dr. Dustin (D) share practical veterinary insights, address listener questions, and discuss management strategies, drawing on both research data and decades of hands-on industry experience.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Managing Body Condition in Cows Pre-Calving

a. Thin vs. Fat Cows: Which is More Concerning?

• Timing matters: The risk associated with thin or fat cows changes with production cycles.
• Thin cows (BCS 3-4) are a larger concern before calving. Reasons:
  • More likely to have calving difficulties (dystocia).
  • Increased likelihood of a prolonged infertility period and delayed cycling.
  • May indicate underlying health issues such as dental problems or illness.
    • “Do we have teeth problems? Do we have signs of other illness? You know, there might be a reason why she’s not keeping up with the rest of the herd...” – Bob (06:11)
• Over-conditioned (fat) cows — less commonly a disease issue. Concerns mostly at extreme cases, like increased calving difficulties or inefficiencies due to wasted feed.
  • Metabolic complications seen more in dairy than beef cows.
  • May indicate freeloading or non-productive cows (e.g., lost calf).
  • “The biggest problem with the fat cows that could have led them to get there is...they lost a calf or they weren't providing very much. They were freeloading.” – Brad (07:52)

b. Herd Management: Feeding for the Average vs. the Outliers

• When a notable portion of a herd is thin (e.g., 1/3 at BCS 4), but herd size prevents segregation:
  • Monitor reproductive performance: If it remains stable, prioritize managing to the herd average rather than aggressively supplementing the thinner subgroup.
  • Adjust strategies based on season:
    • “It's a whole lot easier than trying to do it...after calving or right around the time when they're gonna get started.” – Jason (09:34)
• Weight gain targets:
  • 1 BCS change ≈ 75–85 lbs/cow.
  • Gaining 2 lbs/day is challenging—possible only with intensive supplementation.
    • “To get cows to gain two pounds a day on a dormant forage...you’re bringing a lot of supplement, probably more than...I would ever plan to do.” – Bob (12:27)
  • Green, growing grass is "magic" for cows—weight gains are easier and more efficient than with dormant forage.

c. Forage Quality and Timing

• Calving closer to green grass improves outcomes; forage quality should factor into condition goals.
• Season affects how aggressively to address thin cows. Spring grass can help cows recover; dormant forage makes weight gain much harder.

d. Impact of Genetics & Industry Evolution

• Modern genetics: larger cows, higher milk production = higher intake and nutritional demand.
• Feed changes over decades: More availability of by-product feeds and protein sources (wheat mids, distillers grains, etc.)
  • “One of the things that’s changed over my career is the accessibility of byproduct feeds where protein is quite abundant and relatively inexpensive...” – Bob (15:34)
• Protein no longer as limiting as decades ago, changing ration strategies.
• Challenge: Protein and energy recommendations stem from older, less productive cow models.

---

2. Weak Calves: Causes & Management

Scenario: 225 commercial cow-calf herd, good reproductive history, otherwise normal death loss, but this season seeing weak calves mid-calving.

a. Initial Assessment: Which Dams?

• Weak calf syndrome most often associated with:
  • Heifers (first-calf cows): less experienced, higher dystocia risk, lower colostrum.
  • Prolonged calving: Even without overt dystocia, extended labor can reduce calf vigor.
    • “Are they coming from the heifers?...my biggest concern is that we’re missing some calving difficulty...the calf's just not ready to check, jump up and suckle...” – Bob (19:37)
• Advice: Increase surveillance and quicker intervention in heifers once labor clearly begins.
  • “Once that calf's in the birth canal, he's getting squeezed. We need to get him out.” – Bob (20:49)

b. Nutrition & Environment Factors

• Colostrum quality and quantity: Thin cows or heifers may have lower colostrum, affecting calf vigor.
• Weather: Sudden cold events can cause "cold shock" and weak calves, even when nutrition is good.
  • “Are these events...tied to weather events, cold stress events, cold shock events...?” – Jason (21:44)
• Underlying protein or energy deficiency: Less likely in herds with good average BCS; more concern with herds showing widespread thin cows.

c. Micronutrients & Trace Elements

• Deficiencies in selenium, vitamin E, or vitamin A can be linked to weak calf syndrome, but are less common in most managed herds.
  • “A couple of things that have been associated with weak calves is vitamin A deficiency, selenium, vitamin E deficiency. With the selenium, vitamin E, a lot of times I know that because of the geographic area that I'm in...” – Bob (22:51)
  • Typically reflected in changes to supplement regimen or local deficiency risks.

d. Disease & Epidemiology

• Clarify what “weak calves” means; rule out infectious processes (e.g., scours) as co-contributing factors.

e. Action Items

• Confirm if weak calves are concentrated in heifers or linked to weather events.
• Ensure observation/intervention protocols for heifers during calving.
• Review mineral/vitamin supplementation if management practices or sources have changed.
• Double-check for infectious disease or underlying health changes.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On thin vs. fat cows at calving:

• “If I was going to err on anything going into calving, I'd rather she be a little bit over conditioned.” – Bob (02:57)

On green grass:

• “Green growing grass is magic for cows. They just blossom, they do great, they'll put on weight...” – Bob (11:32)

On weak calves and observation:

• “So if it's more common in the heifers...more emphasis on frequent observation of calving in heifers so that we can intervene quicker if they’re having problems.” – Bob (19:42)

On the evolution of supplementation:

• “The biggest change...is the accessibility of byproduct feeds where protein is quite abundant and relatively inexpensive compared to what I was trained on.” – Bob (15:34)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:41] – Discussion begins: Thin vs. fat cows at calving
• [05:51] – Health concerns between thin and fat cows
• [09:02] – Managing herds with higher proportion of thin cows
• [10:06] – How much weight/BCS change is possible & practical
• [11:32] – Importance of timing and forage quality
• [14:00] – Impact of genetics and feed industry changes
• [19:24] – Case scenario: Weak calves background and analysis
• [21:18] – The role of observation and assisting heifers
• [22:51] – Trace minerals/vitamins and weak calves

---

Summary

This episode provides actionable guidance for cattle producers and veterinarians approaching calving season. The team highlights the importance of monitoring and managing cow body condition with attention to the production cycle, forage quality, and available feed resources. Strategies for weak calves emphasize the importance of careful observation during calving, especially in heifers, alongside a check on weather influences and nutritional status.

Bottom line:
Maintain cows in moderate condition, track management changes, intervene promptly with problem calvings—especially in heifers—and don't overlook environmental or trace mineral factors if problems persist.

---

For listener questions:
Email the Beef Cattle Institute at Kansas State or reach out via social media.

Transcript

[A]

Hi, welcome to ECI Cattle Chat. I'm Brad White. Happy to have you with us and happy to have our crew here in the studio today. Morning, Dustin. Good morning, Jason. Good morning, Bob.

[B]

Hello, everybody.

[A]

So we've got some great discussions today, especially relative to some of our plans as we come through the end of winter and what should we think about with some of our cows and how should we try to manage them to make sure that we get through winter? And then we're coming up to calving and I've got a case I want to share with you and get you guys feedback and thoughts on. Before we get into those topics, I want to remind you, if you have a listener question for us, you could send it to us at bciasu. Edu youu can also reach out to us on social media. We enjoy getting those questions or even comments. If you have a topic you want us to talk about, we're happy to do that as well. Guys, we're right in the heart of football season, basketball seasons gearing up into March madness. There's going to be all kinds of time you're going to be sitting around watching sports on TV at home. And I wanted to ask you, it's fun to snack during a good sports game. My wife makes a great bacon blue cheese dip. But if you could only have one dip that you can have while you're watching sports, what's your one you would select? What's your favorite?

[B]

You know, my wife makes. I'm not gonna be able to describe it, but it's kind of like a sweet corn. You know, it's got corn and we.

[A]

Know what corn is. You're doing good so far.

[B]

And cream cheese and some cool little spices and stuff. And you can load up chips with that. Pretty good.

[A]

Awesome.

[B]

Jason.

[C]

Black beans with cream cheese and then a raspberry sauce. It's really, really good.

[A]

Yeah, that's like one of the local. Did you get that from the restaurant here in town?

[C]

So my wife did kind of, you know, hijacked it and then, you know, kind of crafted it on her own a little bit. But that one's. It's super simple and it's easy and it's really good.

[B]

Awesome.

[D]

Dustin, I like all of your. But I'm just gonna go something simple, you know, just some queso kind of queso. Maybe with a little hamburger or sausage or something.

[B]

Not bad. Something simple. Shut this down and go get.

[A]

We should have brought some today.

[B]

Yeah, there you go.

[A]

You know, since we don't know.

[B]

You're not supposed to talk with your mouth full.

[A]

Since we don't know what you're describing, Bob, you probably should bring some of that into the office. That would help us understand a little bit better. Jump in today and I'm going to start out with a seemingly pretty straightforward question and I want to get you guys thoughts. If I have a cow calf operation, commercial cow calf operation, and it's coming up on calving, let's say I haven't started calving yet, which should I be more worried about or which is going to cost me more? Cows that are over conditioned or fat or cows that are under conditioned or thin?

[B]

I like that you put a time constraint on it. So we are head, we're late in pregnancy, we're headed into calving because would I rather cows be a little thinner, a little fat? It depends on where we are in the production cycle. So I'm concerned about a cow that's going into calving a little bit thin and there's a couple reasons. One is she's a little more likely to have calving difficulty and she's definitely more likely to have a longer period of infertility before she starts cycling again. So if I was going to err on anything going into calving, I'd rather she be a little bit over conditioned. Now that being said, I don't necessarily want the herd to be over conditioned, but that's the other question that I'm going to throw back at you. Are we talking about a herd where by and large almost all the cows are about the right body condition, but there's a few that are thin and or a few that are over conditioned that's different than the herd. A little on the thin side or a little on the fat side.

[A]

For now, good clarification. I just want to talk about an individual cow. Okay, which one am I, which one am I concerned about? And, and if you think it's different by production cycle, tell me the differences because what should. If I see an individual cow that's fat and an individual cow that's thin, which one do you worry about? Because they both have costs associated with it.

[B]

A fat cow that got fat on forages with very little supplement coming from me, more power to or whatever because I'm not spending extra money now, maybe she's grazing more, maybe she's more efficient. But where I worry about a fat cow, two things. One is when I delivered the feed and I delivered more calories than she needs, that's just a waste. The other thing is again at the extremes you can have some slightly increased calving difficulties, those types of things. So my goal is to get most of the herd in about a moderate body condition score most of the year. But they move around because, you know, what's the nutrient quality of the forage at different times of year and how much she's giving to milk or late calf growth in gestation. The those are two times when her calorie increase needs go up and does the feed supply meet that?

[C]

I think really, you know, as you look at it big picture, the data generally tells us from a reproduction standpoint. On average we get the best response for cows that are somewhere between a five to a six in terms of body condition and not a lot of improvement in reproductive performance beyond that level. So to your point, Bob. Yeah, economically there's just not a whole lot of advantage there if we've got to try to feed that onto those animals. I think the other thing that I would add is, you know, as you think about it, okay, if you've got a pick between a real heavily conditioned cow and a thin cow. Well, if our, if our data tells us from a colostrum quality standpoint, it's better for a cow that's got a little more body condition on her than a cow that's really thin, you know, that would err on the side of I would prefer that female if I had to pick between the lesser of those two evils. But again, it comes back to where's the herd? We always know that we've got those outliers and those animals that are on the extreme ends of that herd. And we want to try to manage for the overall average for where that cow herd is and it's tougher, smaller groups versus bigger groups numbers.

[D]

What about is there health concerns between a fat and a thin cow that.

[B]

We need to be thinking about a little bit. So the where I'm going to go with that question is so in a cow herd where most of the cows are in that body condition score five or six, but you've got a few that are maybe a body condition score three or four or some really heavy. I'm not really a health standpoint worried about those heavy cows except for again at the extremes you can get some problems with calving difficulty and things like that. But let's talk about these body condition score three or four cows in a herd where that's not common, where most of them are a body condition score five or six. I think those cows deserve a look. I'd like to get them in a squeeze chute and really look at them. Do we have teeth problems? Do we have signs of other illness? You know, there might be a reason why she's not keeping up with the rest of the herd and that reason might be a health issue. So it could be that she's just a thinner, you know, she just doesn't carry body condition that way or it could be that she's actually battling a problem. And so I'd like to try to see if I could tell the difference between those two things.

[A]

Because you're saying it's not that the, her being thin is going to cause a health problem. It's probably the reverse. She could be thin because she has a preexisting health problem.

[B]

And so then I want to investigate that. And you know, because sometimes you look at those cows and you're like, well, she just is, that's her body condition. She just doesn't carry much condition. But sometimes, and I'd say frequently enough that I'm suspicious that something's going wrong with this cow.

[A]

What about the other end of the spectrum and the gravity? Oh, gravity challenged cows. See how correct I am? They're gravity challenged.

[B]

Yeah, Big old fat thing. So. And again, it's hard for me to picture a disease that would cause that. All right, so let me say that that's what makes it different than a thin cow at the extremes. And again we see this more in dairy cows. So over conditioned cows going into calving, that's a dairy cow. There are metabolic diseases associated with some.

[A]

Of that after they calve.

[B]

Right after they calve, like in those days and weeks right after calving. I don't see that in beef cows quite the same way.

[A]

But the biggest problem with the fat cows that could have led them to get there is, is they lost a calf or they weren't providing very much. They were freeloading.

[B]

Yeah, right. That's not. Yeah. So there might be a reason, there's might be several reasons why I don't want that cow in the herd. But it's not because she has a disease that put that on her.

[A]

But both of them have costs. And so we've talked a lot about the individuals. Now I want to go back, you guys both said something about the herd and I want to ask a more specific question. Let's say my herd, there's variance, but they're a little thin. And instead of having a couple thin cows, I've got maybe a third of the herd that is body score four. So they're, they're pretty thin. And I need to know in my feeding plan and I don't have enough cows to separate them. I know you're going to say we should probably separate them. I don't have enough cows to separate them. Should I feed the herd to bring that bottom third up, or should I feed to the average of the herd and let the cards shake out where they may? Because I'm a little bit concerned that I'm going to be way overfeeding 2/3 of my herd. Does that make sense, Jason, or what would you recommend?

[C]

Absolutely, I think that's a fair question. I think this is where if you kind of have a pretty good handle on what your reproductive rates have been like the last couple of years, that can give you a pretty good handle on whether or not, you know, you really need to make a whole lot of changes to the overall feeding program for the average. If you feel like reproductive rates have been pretty, pretty, pretty consistent for you and you're really not seeing a lot of year to year fluctuation there. You know, I, I think I would say on average there, try to keep the cow herd where you think it needs to be from an overall average basis. And let's not try to, to try to force that bottom third to really change, you know, real dramatically. And of course, it depends on the time of the year when you're going to try to do that. And if you're maybe trying to make some changes, three months prior to calving or two months prior to calving is a whole lot easier than trying to do it certainly after calving or right, you know, right around the time when they're gonna get started.

[A]

Because if I gotta move them a body score, how many pounds do you estimate a body score is? And then if I'm putting them on a ration to grow them, how many pounds can I effectively get a cow to gain as an average daily gain total pounds, and then per day on.

[C]

Average, our data would say somewhere between 75 to maybe 80, 85 pounds per individual change in score. But of course we know that there's going to be quite a bit of variation around that. But on average, that's where we are. So if we change it one score, that's what we would expect to be able to put on there. You know, in a lot of situations, you're not going to be able to really measurably change them. On average, anything less than about 30 days, you know, you're going to take at least 30 to maybe 60 days to effectively change them two pounds a day.

[A]

Can I get A cow to gain.

[C]

Yeah, but that takes a lot of energy to be able to do that.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

You're really feeding them.

[C]

Absolutely. The other thing too, I think that you got to keep in mind with this conversation. You alluded to this a little bit at the beginning, Bob, I think is, okay, where's that herd at on average? But then when are they going to calve relative to forage quality? And you know, I think that we would do have some data that would suggest that at least from a weight and gain standpoint, cows that calve a little bit later, closer to where their peak milk production is closer to ideal forage quality or at least our better quality quality forage coming in the start of the grazing season.

[B]

Right.

[C]

There's some data that would probably suggest we could get away with having those females a little bit thinner than what we might be able to. If it's earlier on in the season. We've got a much longer time period until we get to, until we get to spring grass. So I really think, I really think, you know, where those cows need to be to some extent is reflective of where, where they are in the calendar year relative to the forage quality.

[B]

Yeah. Because, and this may not sound all that scientific, but green growing grass is magic for cows. They just blossom, they do great, they'll put on weight, you know, so if I'm asking a cow to do a lot, such as she just calves, she's lactating, she's, you know, that calf is suckling and that's the timeframe I want her to come back into heat if she's on green growing grass. First of all, her intake is great because we're talking about, you know, lush early season grass. Her intake is really good and the nutrient quality is really good. She'll do some amazing things. So I'm going to go back to an earlier question. I've done some math and stuff to get cows to gain two pounds a day on a dormant forage, either standing dormant forage or hay, you're bringing a lot of supplement, probably more than what I really want to or would ever plan to do. So £2 a day, almost a. No. Yes. I could do it mathematically, but boy, I don't want to. So to get cows to gain weight on dormant forage, I'm really wanting them to gain a pound, maybe a pound and a half a day type of a thing on green growing grass that £2 might be quite easy for her to do. And so I totally agree with you. I think the timing of when does she calve? And I think what we're saying is if she's a little thin, I mean, in the next few, couple of weeks, she's going to go out on green growing grass. That doesn't bother me near as much as if we are three months from green grass and she's thin and I'm having to put some weight on her. With dormant forage, that's a bigger challenge.

[C]

Yeah, or flip it around for a fall calving cow. If she calves here in the Flint Hills in September and she's thin and now all of a sudden you're going into a dormant forage situation. Unless you're going on to, you know.

[B]

You'Ve got wheat pasture or something like that.

[C]

Yeah, that kind of, that kind of a situation. So, yeah, it's a completely different, completely different system there.

[A]

But to summarize what you guys are saying, you. You would manage more to the average of the group and look into the reasons why we had thin cows and how aggressive you are with managing that group would depend are we coming into good forage or not good forage? Because there are times I might want to be a little more aggressive. If we're going into a dormant scenario or if I'm. I know I'm coming to grass, I might be a little bit less aggressive.

[C]

Yeah, absolutely. I think that's a good approach.

[D]

So we're talking about feeding cows. As you think back, over time, you know, genetics have improved. Does, does that change how we feed cows?

[B]

I'm going to say yes and no. And, and I'm going to.

[A]

That really covers the basis.

[B]

So in some ways, no. In that, yes, cows are bigger and their milk production is higher, but in general, along with that, their intake has gone up. So they eat more either green grass or dormant forage. That's kind of associated with their overall size and needs. So in some ways, no, as long as we have the volume right. So maybe it's fewer cows per acre and more hay over the winter for the same number of cows, but their intake will match that for the most part. Now, I don't 100% believe that, but in general, there's some truth to that. Now you can kind of put some nuance on this, Jason.

[C]

Oh, I think we're pretty well all on the same page there. I think it's one of those things where, as we understand our requirements in terms of our calculated protein and energy needs that we've modeled, or we think that we've modeled for reproduction cows, a lot of Those were set 20, 30 years ago, really closer to 30 to 40 years ago in a lot of situations when, when you look at that and yeah, absolutely, we know that our growth rates have changed, our milk production levels have changed. I think fundamentally in terms of just calories in, calories out, it's all just relative to meaning that their intake needs are met. And if we've done that, I think fundamentally there's not a whole lot that really needs to change there. It's just our intakes are a little bit higher. I think our mature weights are generally a little bit bigger than what we think that they are. And the other thing too, that's a real big caveat with it is one, we think we know what milk production is, but that's a super hard thing to try to estimate with beef cows. And so, you know, our estimates with that in terms of influencing nutrient requirements, we just don't have a lot of great data with that. It's hard to get our arms around it.

[B]

I look around the room and when you guys say the past and you're talking about timeframes, you may be talking about a decade or two. I want to go like, for 40 years I've been, I've been doing this for 40 years and there have been some big changes now versus 40 years as far as the feeds that are available. If I go back 40 years ago in some of my undergraduate and vet school classes, a lot of cow ration balancing was based on alfalfa hay, corn, soybean meal. Those were the ingredients that we had. And in that scenario, protein was quite expensive. And the whole purpose of the exercise that they had us do in school was feed enough protein but don't feed anymore because that's just wasted dollars. One of the things that's changed over my career is the accessibility of byproduct feeds where protein is quite abundant and relatively inexpensive compared to what I was trained on. And so, you know, we don't eat much alfalfa hay. There's a few guys that have that as an option, but that's not really part of the scenario. And a pretty much straight corn soybean meal mix is kind of not very common either. So if you can imagine, perfect perspective of mine over a 40 year period, the change in the cost of protein supplementation might influence the question that Dustin had about, you know, so how do we feed cows?

[C]

Absolutely. I think those are the biggest changes that I can think of in terms of just the way the industry's evolved over the course of time is we can, generally speaking, because we Have a lot of byproducts, specifically wet byproducts out there, at least in the Midwest and most of the Great Plains Plains, we've got a lot of wet byproducts so we can feed lower quality, less digestible forages that previously it was a lot more difficult for us to be able to feed. And our traditional protein sources have really have really changed a lot and got a lot of bypass protein in the, in the system now. And so yeah, those are the. I think absolutely, those are some of.

[B]

The ways they've allowed us to have bigger cows and cows that have a higher nutrient requirement. And it kind of. Because if I put these cows back with the constraints that I had early in my career, that would be a bigger challenge than we're actually facing today.

[A]

I think because you can supplement and you can use a lower quality forage and if you supplement, you're going to get better digestibility out of it, better feed efficiency. And I think those are great points and good question, Dustin. I want to shift gears a little bit. I want to. Because I've got a case I want to share with you guys and get your opinions on. So I'll give you some background. 225 commercial cow calf herd. They've had a good pregnancy history. So last year at preg check they were 93% pregnant. They typically run around that level. They also had about 88% of cows bred per calves weaned per cow exposed is what typically they are at. Their calf death loss is usually less than 2%. And this year they've noticed that it was a little bit challenging. Winter feed supply. They've started calving and already partway halfway through the calving season they've had a couple of what they termed weak calves. And so they want to get input from you guys on what are the things I should look like. We just talked about cow body condition score and I'll tell you that they've got about 10% of their herd is a body score 4. About 80% of their herd is a body Score 5 and then a few sixes. So pretty good breakdown. Pretty typical breakdown. Bob, I'll go to you first.

[B]

Weak calf syndrome can be quite frustrating for both veterinarians trying to work it up and figure out what's going on. And producers, of course it's frustrating because that usually means there's going to be a lot of labor involved and some calf death loss. One of the first things that I really want to dig into is which dams, which mothers are having these problems because A lot of times it's if it's overrepresented in the heifers. So it, you know, you said we've already had several weak calves in this herd. Are they coming from the heifers? If so, there's something about those heifers. And my biggest concern is that we're missing some calving difficulty. Not calving difficulty to the extent where we actually lose the calf, but that she's calving for a long period of time and there's some decreased viability. The calf's just not ready to check, jump up and suckle soon after birth because he just went through a really long, really difficult birthing process. So if it's more common in the heifers, one thing I would do, and again, I'm trading labor at one point for labor at another point, is more emphasis on frequent observation of calving in heifers so that we can intervene quicker if they're having problems, combined with an.

[A]

Understanding that many of us were taught early on, give heers more time. And it depends on the stage of labor that they're in. But when they start calving, and you're sure that they've started calving, intervene quicker on those heifers because before they really start to the final or the second stage of labor.

[B]

Right. If you can kind of picture, so the birthing process, when we talk about giving heers more time, it's really, you know, the. The time when she's starting to have some contractions and she's kind of moving the calf up into the birth canal, that might give her a little more time. But once that calf's in the birth canal, he's getting squeezed. We need to get him out. And so that's not the time to give her more time. So once she actually is laying down, trying to push that calf out, we want that birth process to progress in a timely way.

[A]

Jason, the other thing, if it's heifers or not heifers, you said a while ago, relative to nutrition and colostrum quality and quantity. Quantity. Could that be playing a role here? Or do you have other thoughts for the weak calves?

[C]

Sure could be as well, too. If we're thinking about most of those cases or those incidences where we've seen that are primarily coming from first calf heifers. So if that is the case, just from the standpoint of, you know, just those initial females going through their first lactation, you know, just less total production there as well, so that those could be some things that could be at play there. As well. Question I would ask also, too, is, are these events, when we think that we're seeing these in these calves, are they tied to weather events, cold stress events?

[A]

Good question.

[C]

Cold shock events, those types of things where everything else is good. If our nutrition program is sound, if we're watching for, you know, for signs of calving, we're doing a good job of really paying attention there. But if we've just got a lot of real severe cold weather, cold stress shock that's hitting those calves right when they're born, know that that could be part of it as well, too. And so it sounds to me like the way you described it from a energy level coming into the calving season, that doesn't appear to be much of a problem there. So I think maybe digging into some of these other things and trying to get a little better handle on the proportion. Yeah. Are they coming from younger cows versus older cows? And then some of these other things I think are important to dig into.

[A]

Is it likely that they're missing something? Sometimes we go, well, maybe it's a vitamin mineral that they don't have that they should have. Have you guys seen that? Have you heard that discussed?

[B]

Yeah, there certainly can be. And you know, a couple of things that can. That have been associated with wheat calves is vitamin A deficiency, selenium, vitamin E deficiency. With the selenium, vitamin E, a lot of times I know that because of the geographic area that I'm in, that those tend to be in areas where that's a known risk factor. The vitamin A, I think, can be associated with it. And. And again, I would go back to the history. So is something changed about the supplement that these cows have been on? And not recently, like over the last few months, ever since. Ever since.

[A]

You've got stores of those?

[B]

Oh, yeah, we've got stores and stuff. And so I would do a little bit of investigating. It's possible that something like that is going on. But in my experience, a lot of times these wheat calves are associated with heifers and they're associated with really cold weather. And those are things, I suppose it could be made worse by other factors, but those become. The challenging part is that just sounds like more worse work. And that's really. The intervention is more work, and it's more work when it's really cold and inconvenient.

[C]

Protein and energy nutrition is primarily proteins. Another one, when we most likely run into these types of situations. So not that those other things, whether you're trying to look at vitamin levels, trace minerals, those Types of things. Yes. But you really got to dig and that, you know, that requires good understanding of, you know, of trying to understand where that hurt is. Status wise.

[B]

Right.

[C]

Difficult thing to get around.

[B]

So. And I jumped, my brain jumped a couple of steps ahead in that because we could see protein deficiency cause weak calves. But you described a herd there was like 80% body condition score 5. Well that means protein is probably fine in this herd. And so there are other factors. But in the kind of the scenario you gave me, I'd start with kind of the basics of observing heifers. And maybe we had a different bull bred to those heifers and so they're a little bit bigger and calving is taking longer and that's why it's happening this year and it didn't last year and those types of things.

[A]

But I like your approach of going back really defining that problem because sometimes cases are presented exactly like I described. We don't have a well defined other than saying weak calves. To find that problem, make sure there's no other infectious disease component like scourge that's going along or something else that's moving making the problem worse. Appreciate you guys thoughts on that and the other questions today. As always, if you have thoughts or question for us, send us an email at bcisu Eduardo.