Parasite Control, Bull BSE, Cover Crops

Summary

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Episode Overview

Main Theme:
In this episode of Cattle Chat (October 6, 2025), the veterinary experts at Kansas State University’s Beef Cattle Institute (BCI) delve into three core topics impacting the beef industry:

• Strategic parasite control
• The relationship between bull back fat and breeding soundness (BSE)
• The pros and cons of grazing corn stubble and cover crops

Each discussion blends practical research, field experience, and critical questions for producers to consider as they seek optimal herd health and sustainable practices.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Parasite Control Strategies in Cow-Calf Operations

Changing Recommendations and Nuanced Approaches

• Traditional Approach: Historically, blanket deworming of all cattle was common.
• Evolving Best Practices: Blanket treatments drive parasite resistance, so a shift is recommended toward targeted or strategic deworming.

Who and When to Treat?

• Identifying Candidates:
  • Treating only animals that need it is now preferred, but clear criteria for “need” are lacking.
  • Young cattle typically benefit most from deworming; mature cattle often have greater natural resistance.
  • Local geography, climate, and management matter greatly.
• Timing:
  • No universal “right” time to treat. The classic recommendation to deworm before moving to a fresh pasture now raises resistance concerns.

Risks of Improper Handling

• Moving freshly dewormed (but not 100% cleared) cattle to a clean pasture may seed the environment with drug-resistant parasites.

Notable Quote:

"I can't think of a better recipe for creating a resistant population of parasite than to treat the entire herd and then put them into a clean pasture."
— Todd Gunderson, [10:59]

Key Takeaway:
Consult with your local veterinarian to design a parasite control program tailored to your herd, environment, and current best practices.

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2. Bull Back Fat & Breeding Soundness (BSE)

Research from Georgia – Linking Back Fat to Fertility

• Study Design: Measured subcutaneous back fat and correlated with BSE outcome in yearling bulls.
• Findings:
  • High back fat was clearly linked to a higher chance of failing a BSE, primarily due to increased abnormal sperm (semen morphology).
  • Higher back fat = higher testicular temperatures, impairing sperm production.

Practical Implication:

• Bulls developed to “show shape” often have too much fat for optimal fertility. Moderate condition bulls are less likely to fail BSE.
• “Half an inch of back fat is like slaughter-ready body condition—way above what a bull needs.” — Philip, [15:45]

Memorable Exchange:

Brad White: "New product idea. You've seen the neck fans people wear. It's a scrotal neck fan. There you go."
Bob: "I'm gonna let you install them though."
[14:54–15:03]

Key Takeaway:
Balance nutrition carefully for growing bulls. Over-conditioning can undermine breeding performance and long-term herd profitability.

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3. Grazing Corn Stubble and Cover Crops: Pros & Cons

Production Benefits

• Low-Cost Feed Source:
  • Crop residues and cover crops provide inexpensive, effective feed, especially for cows in spring calving operations.

Potential Crop/Soil Challenges

• Soil Compaction:
  • Main concern: Compaction during wet conditions.
  • Cow hoof compaction generally is limited (~4 inches deep) and mitigated by natural freeze/thaw cycles—unlike heavier and deeper equipment compaction.
  • Practical issue: Roughness of soil surface, affecting planter operation.

Yield Impact:

• Nebraska research: Grazing corn stalks in winter or early spring showed no negative effect on subsequent corn yields and even a small positive effect on soybeans.
• For cover crops, impacts may differ by season (spring vs. fall grazing) and local conditions.

Nutrient Cycling:

• Grazing animals return 85–90% of nitrogen, phosphorus, and potassium to the field via manure, contributing to fertility rather than depleting it.

Notable Quote:

"You can still get your benefits. You might be able to have your cake and eat it too in that scenario."
— Brad White, [22:47]

Best Practices & Caveats:

• Check fields before grazing: avoid hotspots like spills of fertilizer (e.g., ammonium nitrate), which can be deadly.
• Grazing strategy (e.g., water source location, strip grazing) impacts distribution of both compaction and nutrient return.

Key Takeaway:
Grazing residues and cover crops can be a win–win if managed with the whole agroecosystem in mind, and by maintaining communication between livestock and cropping operations.

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Memorable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On fumbling and recovery:

  "The whole thing about a fumble is don't let it beat you twice."
  — Bob, [02:07]

• On outdated deworming protocols:

  "If this has been a conversation that you haven't had...talk to your veterinarian about what's new, what might I want to do different on my operation."
  — Brad White, [11:19]

• On fat bulls and fertility:

  "Radiators don't work well if you insulate them. And one of the places bulls will deposit fat is along that neck of the scrotum."
  — Bob, [14:18]

• On grazing impact:

  "Most of it's going back on as manure. ... Those nutrients are in a form that may even be more readily available for the subsequent cash crop."
  — Philip and Bob, [22:29]

• On field safety:

  "I have seen that [fertilizer spills] kill cows on multiple occasions... make sure that everything in that field is safe before you put them out there."
  — Todd Gunderson, [24:02]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [04:28] – Begin: Parasite Control—Who, When, & How to Treat
• [10:05] – Pros/Cons of Deworming Prior to Moving to Clean Pasture
• [12:14] – Back Fat in Bulls and BSE Outcomes (Research Highlights)
• [15:45] – Relating Back Fat to Market Cattle and Bull Nutrition
• [17:34] – Grazing Crop Residue & Cover Crops: Producer Perspective
• [19:33] – Soil Compaction: Science vs. Perception
• [20:25] – Research Evidence: Grazing, Yields, & Nutrient Cycling
• [23:12] – Grazing Management: Field Impacts & Best Practices
• [24:22] – Field Safety and Toxicology

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Conclusion

This episode emphasizes the importance of continually updating herd health strategies, whether it’s rethinking parasite control, balancing bull nutrition, or maximizing the benefits of cover crop grazing. The BCI panel encourages each producer to adapt practices based on the best available science—and never hesitate to consult local experts.

Transcript

[Bob]

Foreign.

[Brad White]

BCI Cattle chat. I'm Brad White. Happy to have you with us today and happy to have our crew here in the studio. Morning, Todd.

[Todd Gunderson]

Good morning, Bob.

[Bob]

Good morning, guys.

[Brad White]

Philip.

[Philip]

Good morning, everybody.

[Brad White]

So we're happy to have you guys with us because we've got a couple great topics today. We're going to talk a little bit about parasites, parasite management. We'll pick up on some information that Dr. Gunderson picked up at a meeting. We're also going to discuss back fat. So we talk about back fat and bull fertility. So are these bulls getting too fat or too thin on the bull test? And how does that impact? And we're going to wrap up by talking about grazing corn stubble or other cover crops. What's the impact on the environment or the field after we do that? Before we get into those topics, if you have a question or topic you'd like us to discuss, you can send us an email at bcisu Edu. We really enjoy getting those listener questions. And I always ask you guys something fun at the start, but today we're going to go a little bit different direction because it is football season, and one thing that occurs during football seasons is fumbles. And we hate to talk about fumbles, but you do have to recover from them. And I had one last week. We were recording our podcast and somebody came and knocked on the door because I had a lecture at 11. We were recording somebody came and knocked on the door at 10. 10 and said, actually, your lecture's at 10. So that was my fumble for last week, which I tried to recover. And you just move on. Have you guys had any fumbles and maybe in the last year or so?

[Bob]

In the last year?

[Brad White]

Yeah. I'm giving you a window.

[Bob]

Oh, wow. Oh, no, not in the last year.

[Brad White]

And, and how do you recover from the fumbles? What I'm most interested in, because you got to get back and you got to get your mind back in the game because fumbles happen. It's a reality, but you got to jump right back in the game.

[Bob]

Well, and the reality is oftentimes I don't recover this fumble like the other team gets it.

[Brad White]

Yeah, it's. It's a loss.

[Bob]

And, you know, I, it's like the old John Wayne. You just got to get back on the saddle. It's like the, the. So we'll use continue with the football analogy. The, the defensive back that gets burned just gotta go back there and play. So.

[Philip]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bob]

The whole thing about a fumble is don't let it beat you twice.

[Brad White]

Yeah, exactly. Don't let it beat you twice. So how do you recover from a fumble, Dr. Gunderson?

[Todd Gunderson]

Oh, man. You said in the last year, that's just. There's just too many to choose from. But, you know, your. Your story about the meeting and. And the knock on the door and realizing you were supposed to be somewhere you weren't reminds me of my very first week here at the BCI when I had all these meetings scheduled, and it was so exciting and I was so eager to get going. And I finished one meeting, actually, it was with Brad. I had. I'd had a meeting with Brad, and I would. Been looking forward to it all week because Brad's a real busy guy. So I. I'd been sitting. We sat down, we had this meeting, and it was just like one topic after the other, and I was so prepared, and I nailed it. And I thought, okay, I got everything lined out. I came and sat down in the little temporary makeshift office they had set up for me, and I thought, oh, I'll check my email. So I flip open my laptop, and it wouldn't connect to the Internet. I'm like, I spent about 10 minutes trying to mess around getting connected to the Internet. I finally get connected to the Internet, open up and see a whole list of emails from the department secretary. Are you coming to your meeting with the department chair?

[Brad White]

Oops. Yeah.

[Todd Gunderson]

See, I run down there, I'm 25 minutes late to my meeting with the department chair. So I try. And she was very. She was very good about it. She was very understanding. And it wasn't a big deal, but it was kind of, you know, a great first day. Not. Not my great first impression with the department chair. And so when I have my annual review, I think, okay, I'm going to pick up this fumble, and I'm gonna. I'm gonna carry it this time. So, you know, I made sure, Okay, I got a meeting with the department chair. I'm going to wear a. Wear or look professional. I got my suit on. I'm going to be there. I was 15 minutes early. I sit down in the meeting, and she's like, did you get the. The review paperwork that we sent you and put in your mailbox? I'm like, what mailbox?

[Brad White]

Yeah, well, you still pick it up and you. And you go again.

[Todd Gunderson]

So, yeah, I went and got the paperwork. And anyways, now she's the intern being of the vet school, so no harm.

[Brad White]

Philip, fumble recovery. How do you recover?

[Philip]

You know, I've tried to think of something, and I don't know. Nothing's coming to mind. I know there's been some, but I can't think of anything in particular right off the bat. I guess maybe, maybe the, the key to recovering from the fumble is to forget did it block it out, you come back, you forget about it. So you just keep chugging on.

[Brad White]

Everybody fumbles. We're, we're making light of it, but I, I do think it's important that sometimes we say everybody fumbles or stumbles and, and it is about the getting up and the keeping going part. So we'll shift gears and talk a little bit about parasites. And as we have talked about parasites, and I want to focus on the cow calf side here. And there have been some different recommendations relative to when should we deworm, relative to changing pastures, when should we deworm, relative to time of year, what products should we use to deworm with or not? And a lot of our parasites that we're concerned with vary in how frequently we see them based on region of the country. So there's some different. There's no singular recommendation, but I know, Todd, you, you were at a meeting and had some parasite discussion. Maybe give us a little bit of an overview and then let us kind of jump in for sure.

[Todd Gunderson]

So this is a topic that generates a lot of discussion because it is frustrating at times because there are so many different nuances to it. And a couple of things that came out in this meeting, it was a great meeting and it was led by a great parasitologist from one of our great universities here in the United States. And he gave a great talk. And it was really informational, a lot of good data. And at the very end, there were so many questions that went up on the. We had an app called slido where you could submit questions. And I saw more questions at the end of that meeting than any other meeting I'd ever been in. And a lot of those questions were around some of the principles that talked about. So some of the principles relate into parasite and treating parasites. Number one, who needs to be treated? Should we be treating everybody? Well, in the past that was kind of the go to, like, let's just treat everybody well. The problem with that is we start to develop resistance because now we're putting pressure on every parasite in that ecosystem to get over that, that, that molecule, that, that drug that we're using. So treating everybody doesn't seem to be a good strategy. So maybe we only treat those cows that do need it. Well, how do you decide if a co be treated what is the criteria? Nobody really knows. What if we only treat, what if we just don't treat the cows that don't need to be treated? That's a different way of looking at it than simply treating those that need to be treated. Well, how do you know who doesn't.

[Bob]

Need to be treated?

[Todd Gunderson]

It can be a really confusing path that you go down. And the other question is, when do we need to treat, do we treat them before they go on to a fresh pasture? Do we treat them while they're on the pasture? Do we treat them before they go into a dry lot? Those are all questions that we have to answer when we're thinking about a parasite control strategy. And sometimes the answers aren't always that clear.

[Brad White]

And I think it's important to highlight a couple of things you mentioned. You need to be strategic. It's not clear what that strategy should be. Should I target those that have high parasite burden or those that have low parasite burden? How do I distinguish that and different times of year? And this has changed kind of throughout our career, Bob, based on what the recommendations were 20 years ago.

[Bob]

Exactly. So one of the things that I, I think we start with is I actually think if I think about modern veterinary medicine, I think one of our greatest advantages and tools compared to those in the past is parasite control. I think in, you know, if you go back prior to parasite control, so both external flies and ticks and, and internal parasites, those are tremendously hard on animal populations. But we have been blessed for several decades to really have some good tools. So I think we, and because we've had such good tools for quite a while, we underestimate how bad parasite loads can be on animal health. And, and I, I'm the old one in here. I actually remember when kind of the more effective broad based dewormers became available in the early 1980s. Prior to that, our tools were not as effective. And so in some ways there's an advantage of that. You got to really think through and strategically use your tools because none of them are perfect, none of them are that great. And then we had several decades of a number of different products that were highly effective. We didn't worry about resistance, we didn't worry about a lot of problems. And I think again, somebody that, that lived prior to having these tools, we don't want to lose them. And so one of the things, these parasites, they have multiple life cycles in a year. So you can change the resistance patterns really quickly because of that. And so I think some of the things that Todd was talking about is maybe we really need to step back and think we shouldn't deworm everybody all the time. We should be more strategic. And for me, strategic is young animals are much more likely to benefit from deworming than older animals. The more mature they are, the less bang for your buck you're going to get. Because they have a lot of natural protection against parasites. Geography, temperature, rainfall, all of those things matter. And so I think this is an area where really talking to your veterinarian and saying, I understand that maybe the best procedure is not to deworm the whole herd all the time.

[Brad White]

And, and depending on where I am in the country, yes. And I may have a different recommendation that, that someone gives me than you do just because we manage grazing paths differently. So Todd, talk a little bit about the. Because the concept for a long time has been I want to deworm them and put them on a clean pasture to where they're going somewhere new. What are some potential pros and cons that have been discussed with that approach?

[Todd Gunderson]

So the pro that you're, you're chasing when you deworm or treat a group of animals for parasites and then put them into an environment where you don't expect them to be exposed to those parasites is they're less likely to get reinfested. And that's, that's really the goal. Um, and, and I used to recommend that all the time. And where I practiced there was a lot of problem with lice. And so I'd always tell people, put on your pour on for the lice and then put them somewhere where they're not gonna be re exposed to lice. Don't put em with other animals that could potentially have lice cause they're just gonna get reinfested. The problem that you run into with that thinking is not all parasiticides, whether it be an internal dewormer or a lice treatment or, or what have you, they're not all 100% effective. In fact, most of them are very rarely 100% effective. So you're always going to have a small percentage of that parasite population that lives through that treatment. And when you put that group of animals with that small percentage of parasites that survive the treatment into a fresh clean environment with no parasites, you've just guaranteed that that new environment is now going to be populated with all parasites that are resistant to, to that drug. I can't think of a better recipe for creating a resistant population of parasite than to treat the entire herd and then put them into a clean pasture.

[Brad White]

So one of one of the points there is what we used to recommend is not the same as what we recommend now. So if this has been a conversation that you haven't had, and Bob brought up a great take home earlier, which is visit with your veterinarian and talk to them about what's new, what might I want to do different on my operation. So appreciate that perspective and thanks for sharing with us, Todd, on that parasite lecture that you went to with lots of questions simulated, more questions than necessarily answers, which is sometimes what we do. I want to shift gears and talk a little bit about back fat and bull fertility. Specifically we talk about sending bulls to bull tests. They go on bull tests, they gain weight. We want to see how well they perform. Sometimes those bulls may get a little bit overweight or not. And I've heard people say, well, if they get too fat, they're not going to do well on their bse. There was actually a paper out of Georgia that explored that. Give us the brief overview of what they found in that work.

[Todd Gunderson]

Yeah. So brief overview was they measured subcutaneous back fat with ultrasounds for these yearling bulls that were at bull test stations. And then they did the BSCS on these bulls a month after they did the ultrasound. And they found some very clear associations between the level of subcutaneous back fat and the probability that those bulls would not pass their BSC based on semen morphology. And so this, I mean, this was not surprising that they found this, but it was very well analyzed. The analysis is very clear. They, they showed a very clear relationship between the probability that a bull fails their BSC and the amount of subcutaneous back fat they have during that yearling development period. And, and the take home from this is if we over condition these bulls and get them into what I call show shape rather than working shape, we are not setting them up for success. And it can be a problem because it's hard sometimes not to do that because those bulls that are the fattest, soggiest bulls that go through the cell ring are typically the ones that get the biggest biz. And so there's kind of a trade off that exists there.

[Brad White]

And just to give some numbers for perspective, they compared a group of bulls that had about a half an inch of back fat thickness and they had about 10% of them that did not pass their BSE as compared to one of the other groups, had about the lowest group, had about 2, 10 or 4/10 of an inch of back fat, and they had about 3% of them that did not pass. So yes, higher. Not pass rate, but not the end of the world.

[Bob]

Right. It's not that they all failed.

[Brad White]

Right.

[Bob]

But, but that, that's a, that's a sizable difference. It's a sizable difference. And you put a lot of money into these guys. And it's kind of something that we've known for a long time because one of the things that will cause the testicles to produce abnormal sperm is they're too hot. Sperm production is very temperature dependent and needs to be cooler, quite a bit cooler than core body temperature. That's, that's why there's a number of cooling mechanisms associated with those testicles. One of them is kind of a radiator right at the top of the testicles, right at the kind of the, the neck of the scrotum that cools the, the arterial blood before it goes to the testicles so that the blood going to the testicles is cooler than the blood going to other organs. Well, radiators don't work well if you insulate them. And one of the places bulls will deposit fat is along that neck of the scrotum. And so basically these over fat bulls probably have some increased testicular temperature, which increases the number of abnormal, certain sperm cells.

[Brad White]

Okay, new product idea.

[Bob]

Yep.

[Brad White]

You've seen the neck fans that people wear. It's the same thing. It's a scrotal neck fan. There you go. I'm gonna let you install them though.

[Bob]

I will.

[Philip]

I.

[Todd Gunderson]

Okay.

[Bob]

That's my next. That's my first million dollars there.

[Todd Gunderson]

I just want to head real quick too, because we talked just a few weeks ago on this podcast about the benefits of pre weaning nutrition in bulls and how that can help bulls reach puberty sooner. And it can seem somewhat contradictory. So I want to be very clear that when we're talking about pre weaning nutrition, we're talking about nutrition that's going to help those calves grow, frame and, and mature sexually faster. That's a very different type of nutritional problem than once the bulls are weaned and they're in that, that yearling phase and we're adding a lot of energy. That's a different, that's a different nutritional program. I think Philip has something to say about that.

[Philip]

Well, it's, I was going to ask in the paper what percentage of the bulls were in that half an inch of back fat or above? Because half an inch of back fat, that's slaughter cattle ready. I mean, we're, that's our target for marketing finished beef animals. And so you're, I Mean you an animal to get half an inch of back fat like that, they're at a body condition score of 8 or 9. And so it takes a lot of energy to get, especially to get a bull there with his testosterone level. So what I, I'm thinking probably a small percent.

[Bob]

Well, it was 10% of the herd.

[Brad White]

10% of the bulls actually they divided the population based on ranking of back fat. So the average of the top 10% of the population was a half an inch. So then, so there's. They didn't look at it. The percent wise of that were above that. So I think you're, you're absolutely right. And that's a, that's. So you've got a lot of energy that goes into that. And one thing I would say. So this paper has a lot to discuss and we've got an additional podcast that's called Bovine Science with BCI where we dive into some of those papers and we've done nutrition papers. Todd and I actually sat down and discussed this paper in depth. So if you'd like to learn more about this paper, you can listen to Bovine Science with bci. But great question, Philip. I do want to shift gears and talk a little bit about grazing corn stubble, cover crops. That has been discussed in terms of sustainability, but also some potential challenges with things like soil compaction. Some of the pros and cons. And Philip, I'm going to turn to you first and kind of get your perspective on if I have the opportunity to graze crop residue, is it a pro or a con?

[Philip]

From the beef side? Um, production side, it's a pro. Um, I mean crop residues are inexpensive feed sources that work for various classes of livestock. Post weaning calves with some supplement or post weaning cows. The COVID crops, great grazing and forage quality for different classes of livestock, such as lactating cows in the spring. Um, so from a, from a beef production standpoint, they are, they're usually inexpensive feeds that with a spring calving her generally fit very well into the nutritional requirements of those cows and calves and so can be very useful in reducing winter feed costs.

[Brad White]

And, and are you concerned about any, any potential detriments to the crop side of the operation? So if they've got a cover crop on because they're planning to plant something else different time of year.

[Philip]

Yeah. And so yes. So one of the concerns has been with grazing crop fields where is during wet conditions, are we causing soil compaction? And you know, for, for the last 30 years we've been talking about soil compaction in terms of heavy equipment and things like that being used on fields. Trying to have ways to manage that. You know, for lots of years we used deep rippers and things like that to try to break up soil subsoil from compaction and other things like that. So the concern is, well, I've got all these cows out there when it's really wet and muddy, they're sinking in there, you know, four or five inches into the soil and they're causing a lot of compaction, which is going to negatively impact my grain yields. And so that's the concern.

[Bob]

One of I, I got to hear a speaker on this topic and one of the things that, that she said was, yes, there's some soil compaction, but it's not nearly as deep as what we talk with heavy equipment in that it's probably only down to that four inches or so, which is the part of the soil that, that responds well to freezing and thawing and other things. So it doesn't have. Yes, it's soil compaction, but it's a different category than heavy equipment soil compaction. The, the bigger problem was again, when it's wet, just making it rough. So then things like, well, how do you set your planters to get good seed contact and things like that when the soil is, is so rough? So, yes, there's some concerns, but it really depends a lot on. She even talked about the difference between grazing in the fall and the impact on the subsequent crop and grazing in the spring and the effect on the subsequent crop. And so again, like many questions, there's a lot of things to consider.

[Philip]

The University of Nebraska has done a lot of work in this area because grazing corn stalks is a big practice used in Nebraska. And so the work I've seen has shown that grazing corn stalks during the winter or early early spring had no effect on subsequent yield in a corn on corn rotation and actually saw a little bump in soybean yield in a corn soybean rotation. So it doesn't look like there's really a high risk of negative consequences of grazing corn stalks. I'm not as familiar with their work on cover crops. I don't know what what talked about.

[Bob]

That's what she was talking more about COVID crop, which again, my take home from her message was again, fall versus spring was different and if you got them off of there when it was wet, you avoided some of the, the practical aspects of the, the ground being really rough come planting season.

[Brad White]

Well, I think a great area for clear communication.

[Bob]

Yes.

[Brad White]

Between the Cow calf operation and whoever's doing the crops. If they're two different folks.

[Philip]

Yeah. And. And one of the things or one of the concerns with grazing cover crops. Why. Why are we growing the COVID crops?

[Bob]

Right.

[Philip]

And to begin with is that we want that live plant there to retain nutrients in the soil and add organic matter back to the soil. So one of the concerns with great. Well, am I removing those nutrients and, and some of the, the organic matter to go back into the soil? And generally the answer would be no. We're redistributing it. The, the animals are only retaining about 10 to 15% of the nitrogen, potassium and phosphorus that they're consuming in that cover crop.

[Bob]

So most of it's going back on as manure.

[Philip]

Yes, most of it's going back on as manure. And. And then it's in a different form. So now it's already part, at least partially or mostly even broken down. So. So now those nutrients are in a form that may even more be more readily available for the subsequent cash crop that gets planted in the spring.

[Bob]

Yes.

[Brad White]

And I think so you can still get your benefits. You can, you might be able to have your cake and eat it too in that scenario.

[Philip]

A little bit from, from a crop being standpoint, cover crop is to me that I think the one thing that kind of is a negative is if you try to, to harvest it off the field before, like if you try to bail it off the field or something like, then you are removing nutrients in organic matter that's not going back in to help your soil.

[Brad White]

Yeah. The other comment I'd have on, on soil compaction and we talk a lot about it, but cattle don't hang out evenly throughout the entirety of the field. And how you graze that field matters. Do I have a movable water source? Do I. Am I strip grazing it with one water source the whole grazing period or am I moving water? Am I moving the cattle between whole different paddocks will make a big difference in soil compact.

[Todd Gunderson]

I was actually thinking the same thing. It's a lot of it is how you graze those animals. Some other things that you might experience with grazing cover crops. And admittedly I have less experience in this as far as the crop science portion. But on the, on the toxicology standpoint, something I have seen when I have clients that would graze cattle out on stubble fields would be occasionally you'd have a field where they'd fertilize that field and they cleaned out the fertilized truck, fertilizer truck on the edge of the field and there's a pile of ammonia nitrate there on the edge of the field. And that I have seen that kill cows on multiple occasions. And so if you are going to graze just and this is kind of a random thing that's you might may or may not encounter, but make sure that, that, that everything in that field is safe for those cows before you put them out there, I think.

[Brad White]

Great point. Always check the the field and places you're looking for waterways and edgerows that may not have been planted with the COVID crop and may just have a noxious weed growing there. So great point. Appreciate you guys discussion today. And as always, if you have questions or comments for us, you could send us an email at bcisu Eduardo.