Records or Plans, How to Implement a Plan, Saving Replacement Heifers

Summary

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Cattle Chat Podcast Summary

Episode: Records or Plans, How to Implement a Plan, Saving Replacement Heifers
Date: November 7, 2025
Hosts: Dr. Brad White, Dr. Bob (B), Dr. Scott (D), Dr. Phillip (C), Dr. Dustin (E)
Theme: Practical strategies for cattle herd management, focusing on the value of records versus plans, developing effective management plans, and decision-making around replacement heifers.

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Episode Overview

In this episode, the veterinary professionals at Kansas State University's Beef Cattle Institute explore foundational management topics in the beef industry:

• The importance and interplay of ranch records and proactive plans
• Strategies for creating and implementing plans for grazing, reproductive management, and herd health
• Criteria and debates around selecting replacement heifers for the herd

Conversations are anchored in real-world practicality, experience-based advice, and memorable analogies, making the episode useful for producers at any scale.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Records vs. Plans in Cattle Operations (04:30–14:02)

Defining the Difference

• Records: Documentation of what actually happened (e.g., grazing dates, pregnancy rates, health events).
  • “A record is something that happens, you record it...if you’re like me, mentally you record it, and then three days later you forget. But it’s a written record, so you can go back and look what you did last year.” — Dustin (E) [04:59]
• Plans: Forward-looking strategies based on goals, designed before the season or event.
  • “A plan is…putting some thought, maybe on paper: here’s what I want to do, here’s why I want to do it. And then you follow through with the plan and you record that record.” — Dustin (E) [05:17]

Why Both Matter

• Plans provide direction and intentionality.
• Records inform future planning and measure progress.
• Each supports adapting to unpredictable factors (weather, markets).

Practical Examples

• For grazing, plans guide optimal pasture use. Records document what adaptations were made and outcomes in different years.
• For reproduction, plans go beyond “turning the bull out” by aiming for early pregnancies and controlled seasons.
  • “One of the records I like so much is how many cows get pregnant in the first 21 days. If it’s hitting a good goal, which I say is 60% or better, great, move on…if not, that triggers my plan.” — Bob (B) [07:46]

Limits of Records Alone

• Merely recording outcomes (“the scoreboard”) doesn’t drive improvement.
• The analogy: “Records are the scoreboard, but you need a game plan to actually improve.” — Brad (A) [11:05]
• Scott’s insight: Without records, diagnosing problem trends (e.g., nutrition-related health issues) is impossible—but it’s planned interventions that solve them. [09:51]

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2. Creating and Implementing a Plan (11:05–14:02)

• Barriers: Producers often feel they’re “doing good” just with records; planning gets skipped due to time.
• Leader’s Role:
  • “That’s why we hire a head coach, to be honest.” — Bob (B) [11:55]
  • Someone must take ownership: develop the plan and coordinate execution.
• Level of Detail:
  • Grazing: Estimate forage yield, set timeframes for each pasture, consider seasonal pasture suitability.
    • “You need some estimates of your forage…How long do you think you can spend in each pasture without over-grazing? Are there certain times of year you should be there?” — Phillip (C) [13:12]
  • Overall: Adjust the plan annually using records of past successes and failures.
• Execution: Make focused time to plan, then let records validate, adjust, and improve future planning.

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3. Replacement Heifer Selection: Young vs. Old Cow Offspring (14:02–23:44)

Listener Question ([14:02])

If I have a slot to save a couple more replacement heifers, would you rather they come from a young cow (3-4 years), or an old proven cow (10+ years), assuming both calve in the first cycle?

Discussion & Debate

• Bob’s Approach:
  • “I’m gonna select a heifer that was born in the first 21 days of the breeding season every year… Then, I’d pick the heifer whose dam is the oldest that I like…There is a lot to be said for a cow that has longevity.” — Bob (B) [15:06]
• Early Calving is Key:
  • Only retain heifers born early, emphasizing reproductive fitness and herd longevity.
  • Bob is unwavering: “If this calf was not born in the first 21 days, I don’t want to keep it.” [17:58]
• Phillip’s View:
  • The genetic influence on calving distribution is small; environmental factors (e.g., nutrition, bull performance) can also confound timing.
  • “I would say [timing of calving] is probably not strong enough to make a difference or to influence my selection.” [16:46]
• Growth vs. Longevity Tradeoff:
  • Older cows may wean lighter calves, but consistent early calving and herd fit are valued over purely genetic “potential” (younger cows).
  • “A young animal has better potential genetics, but she has not proven it yet. And that old cow has proven it.” — Bob (B) [18:38]
• Performance Genetics & Marketing:
  • Dustin (E): The endpoint matters—if marketing is at weaning versus retaining through the feedlot, growth genetics gain importance.
  • “The longer I own that calf, the more growth performance pays me…The less time I own that calf, the less growth performance pays me.” — Bob (B) [20:39]
• Math & Risk:
  • Phillip summarizes: With average gains, birth timing ultimately balances out weaning weight—early-born calves tend to catch up or surpass later-born, even if they grow slightly slower.
  • Bob: Early-born heifers also have more opportunity to get rebred and prove themselves, lowering reproductive risk.

Memorable Quotes

• "I'm going to answer a different question." — Bob, on politician-like answers [15:00]
• "Maybe I'm biased because I am old." — Bob, humorously justifying his preference for proven older cows [18:27]

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Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• Defining records vs. plans:

  “A record is something that happens, you record it…a plan is…here’s what I want to do, here’s why I want to do it.”
  — Dustin (E) [05:17]

• Repro records and improvement:

  “The record I like so much is how many cows get pregnant in the first 21 days…if not, that triggers my plan.”
  — Bob (B) [07:46]

• The football analogy:

  “Records are the scoreboard, but you go into a game with a strategy…unless you have a strategy, you’re just flying by the seat of your pants.”
  — Brad (A) [11:05]

• Who’s the head coach?

  “That’s why we hire a head coach—to do the planning. Do we have a head coach on the ranch?”
  — Bob (B) [11:55]

• Heifer selection simplified:

  “I’d pick the heifer whose dam is the oldest that I like, you know…there’s a lot to be said for a cow that has longevity.”
  — Bob (B) [15:19]

• Tradeoff, proven vs. potential genetics:

  “The old cow has proven it…Over the potential genetics of her daughter.”
  — Bob (B) [18:38]

• Performance & marketing connection:

  “The longer I own that calf, the more growth performance pays me…the less time I own that calf, the less growth performance pays me.”
  — Bob (B) [20:39]

• Math check on birth timing and gain:

  “A calf that gains 2.25 lbs/day for 210 days is about a 472-pound gain…one born 20 days later at 2.5 lbs/day meets about the same.”
  — Phillip (C) [21:03]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Opening & Food Memories: 00:04–04:30 (skip: not core content)
• Records vs. Plans – Definitions & Discussion: 04:30–11:05
• How to Make and Implement a Plan: 11:05–14:02
• Replacement Heifer Selection Debate: 14:02–23:44

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Tone & Style

The hosts blend practical expertise with down-to-earth ranch humor and analogies; they challenge each other amiably and reference real-world producer questions. Their expertise is clear, but the tone remains conversational and accessible.

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Final Takeaways

• Both records and plans are essential. Records document results and trends, but improvement comes from informed planning and adaptation.
• Appoint (or be) the “head coach.” Someone must intentionally make and oversee the plan, not just operate day-to-day.
• Early-born, proven replacement heifers (from cows with demonstrated longevity) are often preferable, but context and marketing matter.
• Use records to inform strategy, adjust plans annually, and benchmark success. Flexibility is key—what worked one year may need to be adapted the next.

For more practical advice or to send in questions, the hosts welcome listener contact at bcisu.edu.

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Transcript

[A]

Hi, welcome to BCI Cattle Chat. I'm Brad White. Happy to have you with us today, and happy to have our crew here in the studio.

[B]

Morning, Bob. Good morning, Scott.

[A]

Good morning, Dustin. Good morning, Phillip.

[C]

Hello, everybody.

[A]

We've got everybody here. So we're gonna have good conversations today because we've got a couple good topics to discuss, including records for the herd and talking about which heifers should we save. And if we have time, we'll get into a little bit about how many people are saving heifers. And is that gon over time? Before we get into those, I want to remind you, if you have a question or a topic you'd like us to discuss, we always really enjoy getting those listener questions. And you can send them to [e-mail], or you can reach out to us on social media. We're on Facebook and Instagram and several other forums. So please reach out to us with those questions if you have some guys. Before we got on, we were discussing briefly foods of. And I'll call them maybe spirit special foods or foods you grew up with or foods your family made that may have had some background. We had a student here a few years past, and she would bring in Coogan, and it was a food that her family had grown up on, which I really enjoyed because it's like a custard cake. And every time that she brought that in, it disappeared very quickly. Kind of like a coffee cake. Bob, what's a food that you grew up with or maybe kind of specialized to your family?

[B]

Yeah, yeah. So I, you know, kind of got a Norwegian background and stuff, and. And so at family reunions and stuff, all the ants and everything would bring, really go all out and bring us some authentic Norwegian food. But my favorite was Lefse, the. The flatbread. It's a flatbread, potato bread. That was pretty good. There were some other things, too, that some were good and some were not, but the. The lefsa, if you didn't grow up.

[A]

With them, it might not be.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. So the lutefisk is the one that always gets kind of a bad rap. It's. It's not that bad. It's pretty bad, but it's not that bad.

[A]

I've tried it. I did not enjoy it. Scott.

[D]

We grew up. I guess I grew up mainly meat and potatoes, but all the holidays still to this day, my mom makes ham balls, which I don't know if you've had, like, ground ham in a ham loaf, and then you basically make meatballs out of It. And then it's covered in like a sugary glaze. So it's like a glazed ham, but it's ground. And then it's just like a, I don't know, tennis ball size. And so, you know, when I was a kid, you put nine or ten of those on your plate and.

[A]

Nine or ten, ten.

[D]

Now I can handle that many. Oh yeah, you get after it and then. Yeah, stack that with whatever else you got. But handballs have stayed around for 30 years now.

[A]

I. Wow. I've never heard of handballs.

[D]

I'll bring them to you.

[B]

Yeah. Dustin.

[E]

You know, growing up, we always had family dinners. My grandma's and she always made and still does cherry cheesecake. And of course grew up, loved it. Not so much anymore. I mean, I'll eat cheesecake, but it's.

[A]

Just like, yeah, too much. You burned yourself out.

[E]

Yeah. Back then it was. That's. We always look forward to every Sunday going to grandma so we could have cherry cheesecake. And now it's just like, yeah, too much. Too much.

[A]

When I grew up, I guess, Philip.

[C]

You know, I don't know, the one thing that stands out, it's kind of unique. We always had a garden growing up and my dad was older, so my dad grew up just after the depression and stuff and radish sandwich. So you take a slice of bread and butter it and then you slice a radish and put on it and put some salt and it's actually really good. So it was one of my.

[B]

I'm sure you're selling me on that.

[C]

It is. So it's one of those things that.

[A]

Was kind of like a breakfast sandwich. It wakes you up.

[C]

It was a summer treat, you know, a summer treat like, like fresh BLTs or whatever, you know, in the summer. And so it was kind of a summer.

[A]

It does not sound like fresh BLTs. Sounds in fact different.

[C]

Well, I can tell you that my 10 year old loves them too. So if he, if he eats them, they can't be that bad.

[A]

Yeah, don't knock until you tried.

[D]

It reminds me of. My grandpa was military and you know, they. I think technically it's like a creamed beef on toast, which they had a different term for, you know, SOS on a shingle. That one still stings. It stays around my household.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

People are like, that's disgusting. Like, no, it's not.

[A]

Yeah, it is. Some of the stuff you grew up with, you remember, you're like, it's not that bad. We never had handballs. But we did have Spam when I was a kid, and I didn't mind that at all. My kids won't even try. So most meats in a can are different than meats not in a can.

[D]

Fried Spam is good, though.

[A]

Fried Spam is good.

[E]

I agree.

[A]

So let's talk a little bit. You guys have said several times, and Dustin, going to go to you first because you've said, well, we got to have good records so we can make good decisions. We actually got a listener question, and it was focused on the words, do you need a plan or do you need a record? So, Dustin, I'm going to have you kind of distinguish what's the difference between the two? And you get to weigh in your opinion on do I need one or both?

[C]

Well, and they were specifically talking about a grazing plan.

[E]

Yep. So I'm just going to answer the question first. And the answer is, yes, I think you need both. But a plan, a record is something that, you know, it happens, you record it, hopefully not mentally, because if you're like me, mentally, you record it, and then three days later, you forget. But it's a written record. So then you go back and you can, look what I do last year, you can, you know, measure that. A plan then is, you know, your. Your putting some thought, putting maybe on paper, you're, here's what I want to do. Here's why I want to do it. And then you follow through with the plan and you record that record, if that makes sense. And so, again, I think you need both.

[A]

So, Philip, the stem of this conversation was from the US Roundtable has put out in several of their key metrics, especially for cow calf operations, is that you have a grazing plan. And the question was, why don't I just do a grazing record? Because I can record. If I do intensive grazing and I'm moving the cattle, I can record where the cattle went and how they went there. Is that just as good as having a plan?

[C]

Well, I think I agree with Dustin. I think you really need both. Record is great because it documents what actually happened. And depending on the year, you know, drier conditions, wetter conditions, you know, markets, whatever, you may have to make adjustments to what is normal for you or your plan or whatever. So you need to document that. But I think you need to have a plan going into the grazing season because you don't want to just wing it. You kind of want to know, all right, well, I want to graze this pasture at this time, because for whatever reason or, you know, or I want to have the cows up close at this time of year or, you know, whatever it is. And so you want to have a plan so that you're grazing the pastures when you think you need to. And, and you're not over grazing one or under grazing some and utilizing your forage the best you can.

[A]

So I'm going to switch to you guys and I want to ask Bob, I want to ask on the reproductive side, because we talk about preg checking and preg checking and recording whether the cows are pregnant is a record. So do I really need a plan other than I probably should turn the bull in at some point or can I just go with records on the repro side?

[B]

Yeah, you caught me. Because I was going to argue the other way on a. On a grazing plan that I think keeping record, if you don't have records or if you don't have a plan, keeping records is a great way to get started. And I'm going to say the same thing on the reproduction side. If I've not really been, you know, the extent of my reproductive plan is we're going to turn bulls out on a certain day, you know, middle of May or something like that. That's. That is a plan. But it doesn't hit all my goals of getting cows pregnant early, having a controlled breeding season, those types of things. But much like a grazing plan, maybe one of the best places to figure out is what, what am I doing now? What's my results now? And so one of the things that I. On the reproduction side for a cowherd is that the record I like so much is how many cows get pregnant in the first 21 days. Because that tells me how well the breeding season starts. And if I haven't been keeping that record, then that's a great place to start. And if it's. If it's hitting a good goal, which I would say is 60% or better, then I can move on to the next question. But if I'm not hitting that goal, then that triggers my plan. What is my plan to get better? What am I going to do with heifer development? What am I going to do with winter nutrition? What am I going to do with bull management? To hit my goal? So much like what Philip was talking about with a grazing plan is I need both. And a lot of times the first step is to figure out where I am today. So that's a record.

[C]

Yeah, well, with the grazing plan, we plan for the normal year, like that's really all you can do. You can plan for the average year, because you don't know what that individual year is going to be when you're putting together your plan. But we record every year so we can document, okay, what happened in a dry year, how did I make adjustments and what was the outcome, how did my forage respond and how my cattle.

[B]

Respond, things like that.

[C]

And I can go back to that record like, oh, this is shaping up to be a dry year again. What did I do the last time and how did it come out? Do I need to. Do I want to do the same thing or do I need to make some different adjustments this time? Because it didn't turn out very well the last time.

[A]

But the records by themselves don't actually help you get better. You have to do something with them to get there. And, Scott, when we think about the health side, so if we just track morbidity or mortality or the number of sick or the number that died in an operation, that doesn't actually help me get better. It just maybe sets my expectations and benchmarks. What's the importance and how would you create, and I'll take it to, let's say a cow calf operation. What would you do to create a.

[D]

Health plan that's multifaceted approach with everything. Not where I thought you were going with the question. So when you were going keeping records on all that stuff, I was going back to, you know, there's a nutritional basis to a lot of the issues that we have. I think you could make that argument. And to Philip's point, if you don't have records of that, a lot of times, you know, you end up going, looking back in time and trying to see, you know, is there some causal factor to the issues I'm seeing today? And if you don't have those records to even do that, you're going to, like Dustin said, I put it in a mental record, and then three days later, I deleted that mental record because there's a finite amount of space in there. And so that's, you know, in my diagnostic role a lot. We'll go back and rely on that historical information and can look back, you know, are we in consecutive dry years? And then to Philip's point, what adjustments did we make? Was there an outcome from those adjustments that we could improve upon? You know, and then, you know, it's difficult to anticipate that, which is what I take out of the word plan is anticipating things. I kind of look at it way more big picture. Like, you need to plan for base intake. You know, from a forage perspective. You got to Have a plan to know that I can feed those cows all year long. And that's going to, you know, actually how you do that is going to change year to year depending on, you know, a number of different factors.

[A]

Well, and I think the analogy of a football game, the record is the scoreboard, and you may have individual stats that led to that score. That doesn't actually help you get better, but you go into a game with, okay, we're going against this opponent, or I think it's going to be a normal year, or I think it's going to be a dry year, and I've got my contingency plans in place. But unless you have a strategy, you're just flying by the seat of your pants. Play to play. Right. So I think the records themselves are important, but they don't help you get to the next step. So how do I make time to actually. Because the idea of a plan is great, but you guys just gave several reasons why we keep records, and we feel like we're doing good on management. Sometimes we skip the planning part. So how and when do I get that done on a cow calf operation?

[B]

I'm going with your football analogy. And that's why we hire a head coach, to be honest. That's why we hire somebody to do that planning. And that's, again, to keep with the football analogy.

[A]

Sometimes we hire multiple head coaches over a short period of time. If they don't, things aren't going well.

[B]

But then you've also got some other coaches that are involved with the execution of the day and keeping the records. But really, it's the head coach's job to plan. So in some ways, you back up and you go, do we have a head coach on the ranch? Do we have a head coach on the veterinary clinic? And that is somebody who may be more fun to be the offensive coordinator and call the plays and execute. I would be the star quarterback. But somebody's got to be making the plan. And it's sometimes not a glamorous job and you might get fired if things don't go well. But I'm warming up to your idea of this football analogy, because game day is really set up by the weeks ahead.

[A]

Yeah. By going into it. So, Philip, on the grazing side, how much detail do I need in my plan? Because you kind of described the details that I would put in my records. How much do I need leading into the grazing season?

[C]

Well, I mean, I think you need some estimates of what your forage production is going to be. How long do you Think you can spend in each pasture without over, over grazing that pasture? Are there certain times a year that you should be in there and certain times of year you should not be in certain pastures just because of maybe they're wetter, drier, you know, whatever. The forage recovery is not as good as in those. I mean, you know, especially if you've got a bigger ranch, you know, there's heterogeneity across your ranch in the forage production across the ranch. And so trying to plan to know that I can't spend the same amount of time in every pasture with the same amount of head because I know that all pastures don't produce forage equally. And so I got to plan that out. And then again, documenting what you ended up doing helps you build the plan for next year?

[A]

Yeah, absolutely. So I think taking the time to do that and setting the focused time to come up with some sort of plan and then use your records as a scoreboard. So as Bob said, you've got to have somebody that's the head coach kind of leading that process. Which transitions us well into thinking about saving replacement heifers. And we got a good listener question which I'll read to you guys and want to get your opinions on. If I have a slot to save a couple more replacement heifers, would you rather they come from a young cow, a three year old or even a heifer or a four year old cow that calved in the first cycle, or should I keep heifers from an old cow that has shown that she can stay in the herd for 10 years plus? Bob, young or old, young or old, which way are you gonna go?

[D]

It depends.

[A]

You can't say it depends.

[B]

I'm gonna answer a different question.

[C]

You're going to take the politician route?

[A]

That's another way out of it.

[B]

I'm gonna select a heifer that was born in the first 21 days of the breeding season every year. I don't now and then, if I had several like that, I would pick the heifer, the grand that calved in the first 21 days, whose dam is the oldest, that I like, you know, so. Meaning that.

[A]

So you'd go old, I would go old.

[B]

And because assuming that I've. She's met, she fits my herd, she fits our management. There is a lot to be said for a cow that has longevity. She's just proven year after year that she fits. And so I'd love to have her daughter.

[D]

What if the question is that 10 year old cow, she may calve in the second or third 21 days and the four year old is in the first 21 days, does that kick the 10 year old cow out of the discussion?

[B]

So if this calf was born in the second or third 21 days, I don't keep her even though her mom can stay in the herd as long as she keeps calving. But that's really important to me that I select my heifers from the ones that calved early.

[C]

Yeah, I think the question here is is that timing of calving genetic? Like is that heifer from that cow going to even though she had a heifer this time in the first 21 days? Because that's the assumption here. They were born on the same day. Right. And so even though this time she had a heifer born in the first 21 days, but typically that dam calves in the second or third 21 days. Is there a genetic component there? Is it strong enough to make a difference or to influence my selection? And I would say probably not.

[B]

Yeah, I would agree with that in that there is a genetic component to fertility, but it's pretty low. But what is consistent year after year is May 20th falls on May 20th every year. And so if a cow gets bred, so I'm talking about spring calving cows. So if she gets bred soon after the bulls are turned out this year, she's likely to be bred early in subsequent years. It's just because of the way cattle work, the length of their period of infertility after they calve and those. I need them to be born early. So and, but in this situation, so I've got an older cow, sometimes she calves early, sometimes she calves in the middle of the calving season. But she stayed in the herd a lot of years, that's still a positive in her favor. But her daughter this year has to have been born early.

[C]

What if maybe she, she's in that second or third. Because back as a three, four, five year old we had a bad nutrition year, we had a bad forage year or something like that, or a bad bull. And so she just ended up getting, didn't getting stuck in the first 21 days. Like she early as a, as a cow early. Maybe she was calving in the first 21 days.

[B]

Yes, but if this calf was not born in the first 21 days, I don't want to keep it.

[A]

But if he is born in the first 21 days and you're putting a lot of weight on age and she has stayed in the herd for a long time, but it doesn't Mean she's my best genetic potential cow in theory. If I'm selecting better genetics year over year and bringing in new genetics to my herd. The four year old that calved in the herd has better genetics. So why not pick from the 4.

[B]

Year old maybe so maybe, maybe I'm biased because I am old. There is something to be said and.

[A]

You selected the old absolutely old wiser cow that's there. I didn't see that coming.

[B]

A young animal has better potential genetics but she has not proven it yet. And that old cow has proven it. And so I'll take the proven genetics of an old cow that's been in my herd and produced for a lot of years over the potential genetics of her dog. And that's different than a purebred producer. Purebred producer selling genetics. A commercial producer is selling pounds. And I like less uncertainty and I my old cows that have produced. I've got, I've got data.

[C]

What if that old cow typically has calves that are lighter weight.

[A]

They will so as they age the weaning weight will be less.

[C]

But doesn't even adjusted. Let's say it's adjusted and she's below the.

[B]

But she calves every year.

[C]

You're putting a lot in for on.

[B]

The reprogram and that because I tell you what a live calf that's born early and lives to calf. So let's use some numbers. So a calf is born in the first 21 days that maybe only gains 2 pounds a day or 2.2 pounds a day versus a better calf that gains 2 and a half pounds a day but is born 20 days later over time. I didn't even do the math but I still like my early born calf year after year after year. That's proven itself from the, from the dam.

[C]

Yeah, I don't know what would.

[A]

Well and I'm. I'm with you on the early born but some of the genetic. The genetic value and and Dustin I want to ask you relative to not just reproductive genetics but performance genetics how much does it matter my marketing plan whether I'm selling it weaning or I'm retaining ownership all the way through the feeding phase.

[E]

I think it matters quite a bit. I mean I think that probably does have a say in this question that Bob not sure if he ever truly answered. But what I did hear Bob with all his numbers he was throwing out, he's keeping records. He's keeping records and he's building a plan. That plan has to include what I.

[B]

Will agree that when I'm selling That calf matters a lot. So growth performance, the longer I own that calf, the more growth performance pays me. The less time I own that calf, the less growth performance pays me.

[C]

So back to your scenario. I just did some quick math. A calf that gains two and a quarter pounds a day and you wean them at 210 days, about 472 pound gain there, assuming they're same birth weight. A calf that gains two and a half pounds a day, but he's only got 190 days now he's 21 day. The 20 days earlier born 20 days later still gains 475 pounds during that 10. So they come out to be equal as far as the amount of gain.

[B]

But from a reproductive risk standpoint, the earlier that cow is born, the more chances she has to get pregnant in a 60, 70 day breeding season. So I'm still going. So this is interesting and because if I own that calf longer and longer and longer, then that higher growth calf does start to pay off pass a little bit. And so I'll defer to. I was thinking about selling it weaning or shortly thereafter and my, my answer might change a little bit if I was going to own them all the way through, all the way through a feeding phase, my answer might change a little bit. But I still like my early born calves. But it does get modified a little bit.

[A]

Well, I like to, I like the way you framed it in that the older cow, that's if they're, the primary criteria is they're born in that first 21 days. And we've seen lots of data out there that will tell us if they're born in that first 21 days, they'll be in the herd longer, they'll have more lifetime weaning weights and we're jumping.

[B]

Back and forth between replacement heifers and calves that we're going to sell in a feedlot.

[A]

So I, no, no, I don't think we are because you're who you're keeping for your replacement heifer is, is who's producing your calves of the future. So if she's, if she was born in the first 21 days, that's who we want to keep. And then our debate was should we keep the one that's from the ten year old cow, which your argument is she's got proven genetics in this herd, she stayed in the herd over the long term or let's say the three year old that has potentially better genetics but it's all potential. So some of it depends on your risk and what your breeding management plan was. Your argument is, let's keep the one that we know most likely to stay in the herd. You could argue the other way. And that's where the marketing part comes in. So for their future calves, do I. How much difference does it make? And as, as Philip said, the weaning weight may not be a huge difference based on when their future calves are born, but the lifetime productivity or onto the carcass may be different.

[C]

I would say that. I would say the future weaning weight has to be gain. Has to be higher. Their genetic potential to gain weight pre weaning has to be higher if their future calves are likely to be born in the second cycle or you're not.

[A]

Selling them at weaning. Yeah, I mean, that's the other part of the genetic component. So great discussion there and I think we've got multiple answers that you can pick from whichever one you like best. I don't know if that. Hopefully that's still helpful. So appreciate you sending that question in. If there are other questions that you have for us, you can send us an [e-mail].