Research Update, Pinkeye, A.I. Calving

Summary

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Cattle Chat Podcast Summary

Episode: Research Update, Pinkeye, A.I. Calving
Date: September 19, 2025
Host: Dr. Brad White and the BCI Cattle Chat crew (Dustin, Philip, Todd, Bob)
Special Guest: Dr. Danelle Kopp
Podcast: Beef Cattle Institute (BCI) at Kansas State University

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Main Theme

This episode of Cattle Chat features an in-depth discussion on three core topics affecting the beef cattle industry:

• Economic modeling for metaphylaxis (preventative antibiotic treatment) in feedlot cattle
• Genetics and management of pink eye in cowherds
• The logistics and economics of artificial insemination (AI) in breeding cowherds

The episode includes a research update from Dr. Danelle Kopp and explores listener questions about pink eye and AI calving strategies.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Research Spotlight: Economic Evaluation of Metaphylaxis

Guest Expert: Dr. Danelle Kopp
Main Segment: [02:08–10:10]

• Dr. Kopp shares her master's research, which models the economic benefit of using metaphylaxis (mass medication) in feedlot cattle under various conditions.
• The study analyzes 10 years of actual feedlot and market data (prices, health outcomes, performance metrics) to quantify when metaphylaxis improves producer profitability.

Key Findings:

• Mortality is the primary economic driver: Preventing death losses in high-risk cattle has a much bigger economic impact than changes in market prices or input costs.
• Entry weight matters: Lighter calves benefit more from metaphylaxis, likely due to their increased vulnerability.
• Input prices (like corn or distillers) had less influence than expected; the decision to treat or not is fundamentally about saving lives, not marginal feed costs.

“Mortality was very much the number one thing that drove the metaphylactic decision... inputs are important, but not as important as we expected going into it for this.” – Dr. Danelle Kopp [06:50]

Panel Reaction:

• Dr. Larson admits his hypothesis (that cattle prices would be a major factor) was tempered by the results:

“So my conclusion now is kind of tempered to where I was before... it’s really about how much the health risk is driving this decision.” – Dr. Bob Larson [07:24]

Practical Takeaway:
The most crucial question is: “How many cattle could die if I don’t use metaphylaxis?” Price fluctuations, while not irrelevant, are secondary to the risk of mortality when making this decision.

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2. Listener Q&A: Genetics and Management of Pink Eye

Main Segment: [10:10–16:17]

Q: Does culling cows for pink eye reduce herd incidence over time?
Discussion:

• Genetic Components: There is a genetic link, as highlighted by older studies showing breed differences (e.g., Herefords are more susceptible). Heritability, however, is low.
• Environmental Factors Dominate: Management and environment play a significantly larger role than genetics in pink eye outbreaks.
  • Rough pasture, seed heads, and poor grazing management increase risk.
  • Fly control, especially targeting face flies, is essential to reduce transmission.

“It’s very unlikely that you will be able to only select for cattle that don’t seem to get pink eye and completely eliminate the problem. It can help. It’s probably not going to eliminate the problem completely.” – Dr. Todd [12:35]

• Pink eye is a "syndrome" with many contributing infectious agents and environmental stressors, making it difficult to control by genetics alone.

Memorable Analogy:

“It’s more of a syndrome really, than it is a specific disease, because you can have multiple factors that can combine that will be sufficient to create pink eye.” – Dr. Todd [15:12]

Practical Takeaway:
While genetic selection might help, pasture and fly management are the most effective strategies to control pink eye at the herd level.

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3. Listener Q&A: AI Calving – Timing and Economics

Main Segment: [16:17–22:50]

Q: Should producers calve early to enable use of AI before cattle go to pasture?
Discussion:

• Many purebred/seedstock producers calve earlier (e.g., February) so cows can be AI bred before pasture turnout in May.
• For commercial producers, the economics are more nuanced:
  • Winter Feeding Costs: Early calving increases feed costs substantially. Any gains in calf weight or genetics from AI must offset these higher expenses.
  • Genetic Benefit: The use of AI brings superior genetics, but increased costs may outpace added value in commercial settings.

“My preference is still 8 to 4 [May to August] go using artificial insemination in commercial cows... I love AI for commercial heifers. I think it’s hard to accomplish in cows when they’re out on pasture.” – Dr. Bob Larson [18:27]

Arguments for Flexibility:

• Operational diversity matters—some producers have logistical constraints (e.g., lease or public land grazing) that require adaptation, including AI before turnout.
• In rare cases, personal aptitude or infrastructure can make AIing cows more efficient or practical than it is for their peers.

“No two of them did things the same way. Everybody had their own system.” – Dr. Todd [20:54]

Practical Framework:

1. Do the math: Compare potential gains from AI (calf crop, weaning weights, replacement females) to the extra costs of early calving and winter feed.
2. Factor in management complexity: Labor, synchronization, the stress of early calving all must be included in decision-making.

Choice Quote:

“There’s some things... that doesn’t easily fit into a cell on the spreadsheet. But it needs to be taken into the decision matrix of how I’m going to move forward with this.” – Dr. Brad White [22:50]

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Football Cattle Draft (Lighthearted intro; [00:20–02:08]): Panel chooses cattle breeds for football team positions. “Saleres for linebacker because they’ll straight up kill you.” – Dr. Todd
• Research Takeaway: “If I wanted to predict one thing, it would be mortality that I’d want to predict as we go forward.” – Dr. Brad White [10:10]
• On Pink Eye: “It’s more of a syndrome really, than it is a specific disease.” – Dr. Todd [15:12]
• On Operational Diversity: “No two of them did things the same way. Everybody had their own system.” – Dr. Todd [20:54]
• Summary Table for Producers: Use a spreadsheet to weigh AI benefits vs. early calving feed costs.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:08–10:10] Dr. Danelle Kopp’s research on metaphylaxis economics
• [10:10–16:17] Genetics and management of pink eye
• [16:17–22:50] Economics and logistics of AI calving in commercial vs. purebred herds

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By focusing on the practical implications of research and real-world management challenges, this episode offers actionable insight for cow-calf and feedlot producers, especially in the current economic climate. The consensus: focus on mortality risk in health decisions, manage pink eye with environment and fly control, and personalize your breeding systems after running the numbers for your own operation.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign cattle chat. I'm Brad White. Happy to have you with us and happy to have our crew here in the studio today. Morning, Dustin.

[B]

Good morning, Philip.

[C]

Hello, guys.

[A]

Todd.

[D]

Good morning, Bob.

[A]

Hello, everybody. And we have a special guest today. Dr. Danelle Kopp is with us. Good morning, Donnell.

[E]

Good morning.

[A]

So we're happy to have you with us. She completed her veterinary degree here and is now finishing her master's. She's going to tell us a little bit about her research and getting ready to go off into practice. So we're happy to have. Before you leave, we're going to learn in that research about why Dr. Larson was wrong. So stick around for that. We'll also talk a little bit about pink eye and genetics and then we're going to wrap up talking about AI in cows and how that impacts the logistic of the herd. If you have questions or topics you'd like us to discuss, you can send us an email at bcisu edu or you can reach out to us on social media, Facebook or Instagram. Before we get into our topics, guys, I did have a question. It's football season, so. And we know that football players require different skills to play different positions and there are different breeds of cattle. So if we're going to make a football team only of cattle, I want to know what breeds you want to put at what positions. Bob, you're up first.

[F]

Okay, so I'm going to put. I'm going to put a Canini as my defensive. Like a free safety.

[A]

As a free safety, you start down, coming down and coming fast. Right. He's got to do one position. Todd, you got one? Yeah, I think I'm going to go.

[D]

With Solaires for linebacker because they'll straight up kill you.

[A]

Okay, sir, you got a good one.

[E]

Philip.

[C]

I was thinking of putting a Longhorn in there on the defensive line because.

[A]

Nobody'S going to stand in his way. Elbowed him out of the way, up his horns. Donnell, you got one?

[E]

I mean, I think some brown cattle on the defense would probably be good, too.

[A]

Okay, Dustin, now you. You may have to do a kick. You got a kicker?

[B]

I was going to do simmental for like a punter.

[A]

Kicker. There you go.

[B]

Yeah, Bigger, A little taller.

[C]

So we're a little short on the offensive side because they don't have hands.

[A]

So we're having a little trouble hanging on the ball. We don't really have brains either, so we'll have to. We'll hold a tryout. We'll see who can, who can do the Offense, you guys did all go defense. That's interesting. Like this, this will be good defense. All right, let's actually talk a little bit more about Danelle's research. So Donnell, you, you worked on your graduate program as you went through veterinary school and have really been focused on the metaphylaxis decision. And that's a decision. When we have a group of cattle that we think are at high risk for disease, we may treat all of them with an antimicrobial. When they arrive at a feed yard or stalker scenario, the question becomes what makes them high risk and what doesn't. And that's really what you've been investigating. So tell us a little bit about your project.

[E]

Yeah, so our goal was to put an economic outlook on making this metaphylactic decision. So, you know, everybody is always like, oh, these are the qualifications of high risk versus low risk. But we wanted to actually look at like in what situations do the cattle benefit your bottom line more from using metaphylaxis or not using metaphylaxis.

[A]

So you made an economic model which incorporates in that economic model really serves as a gauge to help measure health impacts, performance impacts. So both the number of cattle that get sick, the number of cattle that may die, and how metaphylaxis may influence that because the effect of metaphylaxis is proportional. So if I have 50 head get sick and it cuts it in half, that's 25. Whereas if I only had 10 head get sick, it doesn't help me as much. Even though the proportion is the same.

[E]

Exactly.

[A]

So tell me a little bit about what your economic model, how you put that together.

[E]

So we took actual feedlot data from our database and looked at the performance of those lots and how many cattle had died, how many cattle had gotten sick. And then we compared that and included pricing data over a 10 year period for different like sales price, purchase price, hay price, wet distillers, corn. Just to try and incorporate the fluctuality in the market as well as, you know, like when you look at the prices of cattle today versus 10 years ago, been a huge change. And we wanted to really incorporate what cattle and what factors make you the most money or when can you benefit the most from medical access.

[A]

Yeah, and I think Destin, as you think about the economics on that and as she described that model is 10 years enough to kind of incorporate. We used to talk about a 10 year cattle cycle, but I don't know that it's really the same at this point. Is that enough to really incorporate the variability that you'd expect to see.

[B]

Yeah, I think the cattle cycle, the average cattle cycle is what, eight, eight years, 10 years, something like that. So I think going back 10 years, you're getting kind of that lower prices. And we've seen obviously more recent times more record high prices. So I think you get enough of that volatility. But we've also seen a lot more volatility in the cattle markets over the last probably 10 years as well. So she's capturing that volatility.

[A]

And Bob, going into this, you had a theory relative to the price of cattle and the value of menaflaxis as judged by the models.

[F]

Exactly. So as you said, you know, it's pretty obvious that groups of cattle that are at higher risk for having quite a few of the cattle come down with pneumonia and or die of pneumonia would benefit the most because just as a percentage basis, because we think metaphylaxis maybe cuts that in half or so. So that's one part of the decision is, well, are these cattle at high risk for disease? But another part of the question is, well, what are the cattle worth? What are the input costs of cost to gain and the value of cattle being sold, which is actually an indication of the value of the cattle that died. So when cattle are worth more, adept costs me more. And so my hypothesis was that, yes, the risk of the cattle to get pneumonia, higher risk cattle, benefit more from metaphylaxis. The more they respond, the better they respond to the metaphylaxis. As in, so we're getting that high reduction. But also that the price of cattle and the cost of gain would impact that decision too. That there would be times where, you know, at an equal level of sickness and death, the cattle price then would kind of dictate whether it was beneficial or not to use metaphylaxis. That was my theory going in.

[A]

So it, when you think about that price and change, his theory was the price impacts whether it's going to be more valuable. What did the research bear out?

[E]

Mortality was very much the number one thing that drove the metaphylactic decision, which I think when you really think about it, makes sense, you know, looking at different prices, if you have more dead cattle, you're going to lose a lot more money. Thus metaphylaxis would be a lot more beneficial to your bottom line to save those animals. But going into it, we were expecting different price changes and stuff like that to really weigh into that decision a lot more. But mortality really was number one.

[F]

So Prices mattered, but really in comparison, not very much. So I, I really tempered. So my conclusion now is kind of tempered to where I was before. It's like, yeah, prices matter a little bit, but it's really about how, how much the health risk is driving this decision.

[A]

And not just the health risk, the mortality, when you sort it out. And I think that's an important take home because when you look at differences, and she compared differences in those group of cattle, because if on any given group of cattle they have the same purchase price and your decision is either to give them metaphylaxis or not give them metaphyxis, what's the scenario you put forward? So when you think about mortality as being number one, what were some of the other things that were important? Did some of the performance characteristics come up? Did, did anything else come up near the top?

[E]

Entry weight was higher up there, which I think also plays into, you know, like smaller, lighter calves are going to be more experience, more benefit from a metaphylaxis. But a lot of the pricing stuff that we expected to be important fell almost all the way to the bottom. You know, corn price and wet distillers I think were like the very last things on the list, which, I mean you still see fluctuation in those prices quite a bit within the 10 year period that we used. So I think that more so goes to say that like inputs are important, but not as important as we expected going into it for the, for this.

[F]

Decision, it's still important. When you talk about catal and profitability, we're really focused on the question of should I give this group metaphylaxis or not. And in which case you don't really need to look at the corn prices.

[A]

Yeah.

[F]

Is one of the things we learned.

[A]

Yeah. And so what was the take home from this that you would tell someone else after? Because you actually did a couple projects on this. We're summarizing into the one synopsis here.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

But what would you say, okay, my research leads to these types of decisions. And how would you use this information?

[E]

I think it's definitely brought about a different way of looking at things. As we've discussed that, you know, mortality was not what we thought was going to be the most important thing when making this decision. I think we all assumed that it would be some price related factor or even morbidity. And the fact that it is mortality, I think brings about a different question of, you know, like how are we doing a good enough job of identifying those cattle that die from respiratory disease. And you know, everybody always says that, you know, mortality follows morbidity. But looking at this model, our mortality is significantly more important than morbidity when making the metaphy decision from an economic standpoint.

[A]

Yeah, I think that's a great point because the mortality is often harder to compare in research trials because it's at a lower level. And it is something that we want to be sure that you could, if I wanted to predict one thing, it would be mortality that I'd want to predict as we go forward. So thanks for sharing your research then out. We appreciate you describing that project going through. That paper will hopefully be out in publication soon and we'll let everybody know when that comes out. I want to move on to the next question, which was a listener question and I'm going to paraphrase the question a little bit. And he, he was asking about pink eye and he's trying to cull cows that he has treated for pink eye and when he has problems and now is wondering if that is helping him because as he continues to go forward, he's not, not doing anything else really for pink eye control, but feels like he's making progress. So, Todd, I wanted to ask you first, what are there genetic components to pink eye and is that what's going on in this scenario?

[D]

Well, the short answer is yes, there is a genetic component to pink eye. There's been a lot of research actually looking at this question. Really cool study. It was published back in the 2000s from data that was collected in the 1990s from the US Meat Animal Research center showed a very clear association between certain breed types and incidence of pink eye. Specifically, Hereford cattle had a much, much higher incidence of pink eye in that study and they were not managed separately. The Herefords were mixed in with the Angus and with the Simmental and with the Pins, Gowers and all the other breeds they had there at that center. So there was clearly some association between breed and incidence in that study. There have been other studies that have looked at specific genetic markers and they have shown some association with the risk for pink eye and these genetic markers. All of that being said, the association is not super high. It is not a highly heritable trait. And because pink eye is such a multifactorial disease, it's very unlikely that you will be able to only select for cattle that don't seem to get pink eye and completely eliminate the problem. Can't help. It's probably not going to eliminate the.

[A]

Problem completely because when we think about pinkeye, there's Pasture factors that can also affect their risk. Right Phil?

[C]

Yeah, well, and I was going to say the means that based on what Todd said there that the heritability is really low. The management that we use has a bigger impact than the genetic component as far as to the incidence of pinkeye. Is that what that's really saying? And so some of those management factors is one of the things that we think about on a pasture basis is seed heads and rough tall grass where when the cattle reach down to graze those seed heads and stems and things are irritating the eye and maybe allowing for higher incidence of pink eye in those cattle. And so we can do some things to try to, to manage that with grazing management and things like that to, to keep that grass in a vegetative state and not like the. Let those reproductive tillers shoot up.

[A]

Yeah. And beyond the, beyond the pasture management. And, and he mentioned he didn't have a lot of fly control in this scenario. But what roles do flies play about?

[F]

You know, that's one of the other factors. So Todd said that there's a lot of factors that impact whether a herd has P or not. That's one of the things that makes it so frustrating is what probably is contributing to a pink eye outbreak. And one herd may be a different set of factors in another herd, but one that we do know is face flies that they can be associated so a heavy face fly burden and what we think's going on there. There's two things. One is the, the flies themselves through their, the feet and mouth parts irritating the surface of the eye makes the eye susceptible to the germs that cause pink ey. The other things is the flies moving from one animal to the other actually moving the germs from one animal to the other. So those two factors make pink eyes associated with face fly control. And so you know it. I get frustrated thinking about controlling pink ey because so many different factors are involved. But that's one where I'm going to probably take it pretty seriously and try to put some baselight control in to at least take that factor, at least more off the table. Excellent.

[A]

So Todd, to kind of wrap up your, your thoughts on this, probably not the genetics and the culling which is making the difference in this herd, even though there is a small heritability component to pink eye.

[D]

That's. I mean, it's hard to assess for this particular herd from our listeners question because I don't know all what's going on in that person's herd. Maybe the genetic selection is making A big difference in that particular herd because the other factors are at a level that really, they just need to tweak that one thing and it makes an improvement. In general, I think it would be very unlikely that you would be able to breed yourself out of a pink eye problem. And even if you did, for a short while, nature has an incredible ability to adapt. And there are multiple organisms that are associated with pink eye. It doesn't have to be just one specific bacteria. So it's, it's more of a syndrome really, than it is a specific disease, because you can have multiple factors that can combine that will be sufficient to create peak eye. And not very many of them are necessary for PI. So I, I hope, I hope that this particular listener is being successful with their reading program and that does take care of their pink eye. I. I'm not saying it's impossible. I would say, in general, it's not going to be your best strategy as a rule.

[A]

Yeah, excellent. And I think good transition, Todd, because our next listener question that we got was relative to breeding programs, and we're going to flip all the way, not just to the genetic decision, but AI or not AI. And the listeners said they'd listen to an older podcast on calving, and they said we hadn't really talked about AI among cows. And he said in his operation, he calves early so that he can AI the cows before they go out to pasture. And in our previous conversation, we talked about calving right as you're going out to pasture, so you match the cows with the grass growth. In this case, he's saying there are some reasons to calve earlier. So I want to ask you guys, your. Your thoughts.

[F]

So one of the specific things, and I think it comes from a conversation we had about calving tine and my preference to not calve in the winter, to, to honestly wait till grass is coming on pretty soon. And this producer said, and, and this is pretty common, actually, what he's describing is really common. So his, his lease starts, so he's going to turn cows out in A1. So if you're going to AI, I really need that AI in before we turn the cows out on May 1st. So now I'm AI in the last part of April, which puts my cab in the first part of February. And I agree that's a, that is a reason that people do that. And that mostly lines up with our purebred producers. And purebred producers, in my opinion, are the ones that really benefit from trying to get as many AI pregnancies. As possible artificial insemination pregnancies as possible because they're selling genetics and they're not selling pounds of bull per se or pounds of replacement errors. They're selling genetics. And so that makes a lot of sense. Where I still struggle is with commercial producers. They're selling pounds and they're dealing with the cost of winter feeding. So winter feeding is one of my biggest costs and pounds of calf produced is one of my is. Is driving my income in that scenario. My Preference is still 8 to 4 go. Using artificial insemination in commercial cows. That's different. I had. I love artificial insemination for commercial heifers. I think it's hard to accomplish in cows when they're out on pack. Well so again I'm going with. So I turn the cows out May 1st to a pasture. I'm going to start my AI in late May, mid June, something like that. It's very difficult to accomplish while cows and calves are out on pasture. And so one of the the questions is, so how important is artificial insemination of your cows with calves at side to your. To your hers management? If it's really important, then yeah, moving it forward when you're still in drylock may make sense. I would do a spreadsheet and see if that pays for that extra winter feed cost and the extra cost of getting those cows pregnant. I'd still not convinced I would do that with commercial cows.

[C]

Yeah, I was going to say that. Bob, I agree with you. I think the real decision needs to be does my AI bred cows and the increase potential increase in weaning weight of those calves offset the additional winter feed cost of a early lactation cow on hay and supplement to keep her in good body condition so that she will breed up. And I think that that's the decision. It's not. Well, I'm doing this because I want an A.I.

[A]

Well this is.

[C]

Is it making me more money? Um, and so I, I have a hard time believing that the extra calf weight is going to offset that additional winter feed cost. But I could be wrong. And so I think that's the, the answer, the question this producer needs to ask himself.

[A]

Yeah. And I think the, the potential as you said Bob, I bring in a different level of genetics. But I think what Philip is saying, if I AI, yes, I may have the genetics, but I'm going to compound that with cows cabbing early, which I could do that with natural service too. But AI helps me get the cows calving early and hopefully I can keep my herd in a Discrete time frame, which may change my labor resourcing. Now, I have to keep cows in good body condition to be able to do those things. But there are some positives to AI and all you guys are saying is, is that offset by some of the feed cost?

[D]

Well, I think two thoughts that come to mind during discussion. I'm going to play the devil's advocate here. I was, I was really blessed in practice to be able to work with a lot of different cow calf producers, several hundred throughout the course of my career. And the thing I always loved about them was no two of them did things the same way. Everybody had their own system. And I like, I think of one in particular in Alberta that he, he was just really good at getting cows heat detected and AI'd. And he had a system set up so that he could just go out and heat detect cows, bring them in and AI them just easy as you please. He was really good at it, and that was his skill set. And for him, AI ing wasn't just about better genetics, although he did have good genetics. It wasn't just about more pounds of calf. It was about the fact that he had an easier time getting cows bred via AI almost than he would have had with a bull. He still used bulls, but it worked really well for his system. And, and then the other thought, you know, in the diversity of different operations I had the privilege to work with, some of them do have different constraints. And some of those constraints, as you mentioned, maybe lease pasture. A lot of my clients when I was in Salmon, Idaho, had Forest Service and BLM lease pastures that they had to be out on in certain dates. They had to have the cows bred by all those dates. And so they had to come up with ways.

[F]

Yeah, they weren't allowed to take bulls out there.

[D]

No, exactly. Or if they were, it was very impractical to use them. And it. So they had to have their cows bred by April. And that meant that we were calving in, in February. And in some circumstances that meant that AIING just worked a lot better for them. So it. I don't disagree with the premise that at a commercial herd, the payoff may not be there. In many cases it may not, but there could be certain circumstances where it's just more gooder to AI.

[A]

There you go for gooder. I will write that down. I think this is a great example of a issue that is not a one size fits all you really have to do, which is what you guys said, is do a spreadsheet, do the math. And then I think beyond the math, you have to take into account some of the things that Todd mentioned and some of the this makes my life a little bit easier, or it makes it a little bit harder. Right. There's because there's some things where, if you're looking at I got to sync an AI to cows, and it's bringing a bunch of angst and struggle and finding labor that's got that doesn't easily fit into a cell on the spreadsheet. But it needs to be taken into the decision matrix of how I'm going to move forward with this. So excellent points there, and appreciate you guys sharing your thoughts on AI and appreciate you sending that listener question in. If you have further questions or other topics you'd like us to talk about, you could send us an [e-mail].