Podcast Episode Summary

Podcast: Cattle Chat
Host: BCI Cattle Chat team (Brad White, Todd, Bob)
Episode Title: When to Start Treatment, Treatment Protocols, Antimicrobial Resistance
Release Date: January 23, 2026

Episode Overview

In this episode, veterinary professionals from the Beef Cattle Institute at Kansas State University—Brad White, Todd, and Bob—discuss practical and philosophical questions related to cattle health management during winter. The episode explores when to start treatment for disease, the role and flexibility of treatment protocols, and the place of antimicrobial resistance (AMR) in cases of bovine respiratory disease (BRD) treatment failure. The approach emphasizes nuanced, evidence-based decision making, flexibility, and understanding disease as a complex syndrome rather than a single-agent problem.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Treating Disease Early vs. Treating Precisely

[03:08 – 09:49]

• The Dilemma: Should producers treat disease at the first sign (early/sensitive) or wait until diagnosis is certain (precise/specific)?

  • Bob's Perspective:
    • Recognizes the trade-off—treating early might lead to unnecessary intervention and stress, while waiting could miss the optimal treatment window.
    • “How many times, though, do we treat an animal and the next day it's awesome. And we think that we’re the one that made that difference. When, you know, maybe they were just a little off.” (C, 04:09)
  • Todd’s Perspective:
    • Frames the debate in terms of sensitivity (finding all sick animals, risking overtreatment) vs. specificity (correctly identifying only truly sick animals, risking missing some).
    • Offers clinical scenarios where either approach could be beneficial or detrimental (e.g., over-treating scouring calves can spread disease; under-treating can lead to irreversible pathology).
  • Bob’s Advice:
    • Advocates for continuous monitoring and flexibility—checking back after 12 or 24 hours to reassess.
    • “Tomorrow is a great diagnostic test.” (C, 06:35)
    • Recommend never locking into a single decision; make interim decisions and stay vigilant.

• Group & Context Matters:

  • Brad stresses the importance of context: group history, environmental factors, and expectations should inform early/late treatment decisions.
  • “If I think I’ve had a bunch of sick cattle yesterday…and I had a bunch…day before, a small sign of illness is probably interpreted as, that's probably illness, we need to treat it.” (A, 08:40)

2. Protocol vs. Individualized Treatment Plans

[10:03 – 19:09]

• The Question: Should treatment be uniform for all cases of a specific diagnosis, or tailored to individuals?

  • Todd:
    • Supports having a protocol/plan but insists it must be adaptable to the real-time situation.
    • Introduces the concept of “pretest probability”—how likely do you think a certain disease is, which might raise or lower your treatment threshold.
    • “I like to have protocols because I like to have plans…but it also has to be able to adapt. It can't be inflexible.” (B, 10:37)
  • Bob:
    • Agrees on the value of protocols (“having a plan”) but echoes the need for built-in exit strategies and flexibility for when things deviate from normal.
  • Brad’s Caution:
    • Warns of the pitfalls when deviating from protocol too often—it can muddy treatment metric evaluations (e.g., treatment response rates) and make it harder to know when to actually change protocols.
    • “If I have the occasional variation from the protocol, fine, I’m okay with that. But…stick with your plan until your metrics tell you something that you need to change it.” (A, 14:19-16:10)
  • Overall Consensus:
    • Design broad protocols to cover most cases; deviate only when objective evidence supports it.
    • Beware of changing protocols based on outlier or emotionally-charged cases—track outcomes over sufficient time/number of cases to avoid “dice game” fallacies (random variation vs. real trend).

• Memorable Moment:

  • Todd uses a story about playing dice with his kids to illustrate why random variation doesn’t always mean your protocol/approach was wrong:
    • “Sometimes my kids will take the dice and they'll say, oh, please, oh, please…They think ‘oh, it worked’…I try to explain…there is random variation.” (B, 17:48)

3. Antimicrobial Resistance as a Cause of Treatment Failure in BRD

[19:09 – 23:33]

• Statement: "Many cases of BRD that are treated and die—AMR has played a role in their death."

  • Bob: Disagrees; while AMR is a concern, it's rarely the primary cause behind BRD treatment failures. Other factors—animal’s health status, delay in treatment, environmental and management issues—are more often involved.
    • “Antimicrobial resistance as a cause of treatment failure is probably not first on my list.” (C, 19:56)
  • Todd:
    • AMR is serious but not usually the “major reason.” BRD is not a “bug problem” but a syndrome involving multiple pathogens and host/environment factors.
    • “If it were the case that it was one particular bacteria…then I would be more concerned…But that's not the case.” (B, 20:28-21:51)
  • Brad: Agrees with both, adding that just because resistance is found doesn’t mean it was the decisive factor: “Finding it does not mean that that was the causative factor in the death of the calf.” (A, 21:51)

• Syndrome Complexity:

  • Bob makes the important distinction:
    • “Syndromes are a lot more complicated…So when I say diagnose the problem, it's diagnosed what's in the environment that's not ideal, what is about the calf that's not ideal, and what's different about the pathogens in that animal. So don't think diagnosis means germs.” (C, 23:33)
  • Brad clarifies diagnosis should mean syndrome-level, not just pathogen-level understanding.

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “Tomorrow is a great diagnostic test.” — Bob [06:35]
• “I like to have protocols because I like to have plans…but it also has to be able to adapt. It can't be inflexible.” — Todd [10:37]
• “Sticking to your protocol for every case doesn't make much sense either.” — Bob [13:24]
• "It's easy for me to jump ship on my protocol early if I have a few calves that don't do well." — Brad [16:10]
• "There's random variation, and you should just plan on getting more sevens than snake eyes when you roll those dice." — Todd [17:50]
• “Treatment failure is probably not first on my list when an animal dies of respiratory disease.” — Bob [19:56]
• “BRD is a syndrome...there are multiple pathogens, multiple areas. So prevention and diagnosis…and saying it's not just the pathogen, it is the calf's response to that pathogen.” — Brad [21:51]
• "Don't think diagnosis means germs." — Bob [23:33]

Important Timestamps for Segment Reference

• Treat Early vs. Treat Precisely: 03:08 – 09:49
• Protocols vs. Flexibility: 10:03 – 19:09
• Antimicrobial Resistance (BRD context): 19:09 – 23:33

Episode Tone & Style

Insightful, conversational, and grounded in real-world veterinary and production experience. The hosts balance technical explanations with practical advice, and pepper the discussion with relatable anecdotes and a bit of humor (e.g., Looney Tunes nostalgia).

Summary Takeaways

• Flexibility and Vigilance: Animal health decisions should be regularly reassessed, not locked at a single point.
• Protocol Value: Well-constructed, adaptable treatment plans are vital; frequent deviation erodes their value and clouds decision-making.
• AMR in Context: While important, antimicrobial resistance is currently not the leading cause of BRD treatment failure compared to host, management, and environmental factors.
• Syndrome Diagnosis: Effective disease management means diagnosing and addressing broad, multi-factorial syndromes, not just single pathogens.

For more cattle health discussions and questions, listeners are encouraged to reach out to the BCI Cattle Chat team.