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Celtics Beat
609: Is Porzingis Pushing Celtics in Right Direction? w/ Chris Forsberg
00:53:32
Chris Forsberg is a Boston Celtics reporter for NBC Sports Boston
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- [00:01]
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- [00:27]
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- [01:25]
Adam Kaufman
Today is Saturday, February 1st and this is Celtics Beat on the CLNS Media Network, the leading online provider of audio video coverage of the Boston Celtics. I'm Adam Kaufman. Episode 609 features NBC Sports Boston's Chris Forsberg.
- [01:40]
Evan Valenti
And I'm Evan Valenti and today's show is powered by Prize Picks and Game Time. Prize Picks is the official daily fantasy partner of CLNS Media. Download the Prize Picks app today. Use the code CLNS to get 50 $50 instantly when you play $5 and download the Game Time app, Create an account and use the code CLNS for $20 off your first purchase.
- [02:11]
Adam Kaufman
What's up everyone? Welcome in. Welcome to February. Welcome to Super Bowl Month. Welcome to the stretch where soon enough we say goodbye to football and it is all eyes on basketball and hockey. I don't want to dismiss hockey, but basketball really takes center stage come the middle of this month and beyond because we have March Madness obviously at the college ranks, will crown a national champ there and then boom, right around the corner NBA playoffs and perhaps in these parts the pursuit of Banner 19. Still get used to saying that with Evan Valenti. I'm Adam Coffman, of course. This week's guest, Chris Forsberg, NBC Sports Boston Pretty much anytime you turn on your television to NBC Sports Whether it is one of the studio shows, obviously pre half post with game broadcasts. Maybe it's Celtics post up. I mean, the man is there. He's available to you. And today he's available to us. Chris, how are you?
- [03:05]
Chris Forsberg
What's going on? And Coffin, I gotta correct you, the big game in New Orleans was last night. So everyone go home now? No. No reason to stick around until the end of next week. This. You saw the nail biter that we were looking for.
- [03:17]
Adam Kaufman
They recovered. Did they hit Bourbon Street?
- [03:19]
Chris Forsberg
Yeah. Well, that'll be, that'll be interesting. We'll know tomorrow when they play the Sixers, how, what the activities were. But yeah, they've had, I mean this been a good month for, to be on the road for them. The LA and you know, Texas stops. Like. Yeah, it's. I'm not gonna say it's contributed to their issues, but it's part, part of the, part of the equation as you're navigating an NBA season.
- [03:41]
Evan Valenti
Yeah.
- [03:41]
Adam Kaufman
With these trips, Drew hasn't needed the, you know, the gloves and hat and scarf and all this stuff he's been rocking in these car commercials. That's for sure.
- [03:49]
Chris Forsberg
That look good. Good for him. I like Abby was, was, was flaunting that it was 70 degrees in New Orleans yesterday and I was, a little bit of me was crying as I stared at my golf clubs.
- [04:00]
Adam Kaufman
I think the most notable thing as we enter February, obviously is that this team is now starting to maybe find a little bit more consistency. I mean, if, if nothing else, you could look at January and it wasn't a quote unquote bad month. It was just a super inconsistent month. You know, it was basically every other game, win, loss, win, loss, win, loss. With very rare exception, we saw that little two game win streak in the early part of that west coast trip against the warriors, who are mediocre, and the JV Clippers, they didn't play anybody that night, had to survive them in overtime.
- [04:38]
Evan Valenti
And.
- [04:38]
Adam Kaufman
And then it was kind of back to the pattern for a little bit. And now as we sit here and have this conversation, you know, to start off that road trip and on the heels of a visit Sunday to Philadelphia, it is now two straight wins. And I believe Lou Brown, manager Lou Brown of the Cleveland Indians and Major League would tell us that three makes a winning streak. So we're not quite there yet. Not quite there yet. But how are we feeling about what we've seen so far just in, in, in this recent little stretch against, you know, the Bulls, who granted were shorthanded no Zach Levine. But in fairness, Boston wasn't at full strength either. And New Orleans, the survival against injury ravaged team. When you did have all your guys.
- [05:19]
Chris Forsberg
Imagine telling us coming out of that championship where they steamroll 16 and three in the postseason and all that and we're like, you guys are going to be celebrating a two game win streak in January. They could probably, probably would be unclear what, what, what went wrong. But so, you know, like you said, super inconsistent month. It's been, it's been a tough watch, I'm not gonna lie. Right. Like the, for some of the lapses, some of the late game execution has fallen off the cliff, which is I guess why it made it a little bit refreshing to see them come through against the Pelicans, where, you know, Jason and Jalen both hit big shots in the final 30 seconds, where you do just enough. Even if you're looking at that roster and saying, how is this a game? You know, beggars can't be choosers when you're kind of going through it. So I do think there's been little incremental strides made. Like the starters have been so much better their first 10 games together. Super low in net rating past 5 games, past 6 games now up over plus 20. Porzingis has been fantastic and like, look, if all you're going to do is find one thing to, to hit your wagon to like if that, if Porzingis is that healthy and playing to this level, like the game that we saw the other night, he was just fantastic. The, the 26 first half points and 34 overall. Like, I mean if you get that poor Zingus in April, May or June, just send the Larry o' Brien trophy. But yeah, like still some strides to clean up.
- [06:39]
Adam Kaufman
Three pointers including some logo heat checks.
- [06:42]
Chris Forsberg
Like, I mean that was the one from the, the logo or what step inside the logo was, was, was, was something I, I will say like, you know, I. His shot just looks smoother. I think he said it in the walk off with Abby that it just, it just feels crisp and that he's still like, well, I'm still at 96 point something percent healthy. Like give him three more percent. It's, it's, it's encouraging to hear like again, a lot to clean up. But yeah, right now you just kind of, if you're going to go through it, if you're going to ride the roller coaster, at least find some positives. At least make it look like where you're moving in the right direction. And I'm certainly maybe it's probably recency bias. If they lose to the Sixers tomorrow, I'll just go back to being despondent. But right now I'm okay with where they're at.
- [07:25]
Evan Valenti
Yeah, the KP edition's been a nice, a nice welcome site just because of how big of a deal he is in terms of like a matchup problem. I mean, he's posting up everybody he possibly can. The three point shot, you know, drawing guys all the way out to 30, 31ft, 32ft from the basket. I mean, Vucovich isn't the greatest guy in terms of covering guys in the perimeter, but if he's got to go 31ft out there, you just see the court off the floor.
- [07:48]
Adam Kaufman
He got benched.
- [07:50]
Evan Valenti
Look at the court, like, go. Like people have taken stills of what the court looks like when KP's really got it home. And it just makes life so much easier for literally everybody else. I mean, a lot of the people are, you know, and it's, it's been a good topic is, you know, how Jason's handling all these traps and blitzes and things that are being sent his way and how Boston's dealing with that. When you have a guy like Porzingis, like, he's just, just makes life super easy. If you run the Tatum KP pick and roll or pick and pop, mostly pick and pop. You know, you're going to have a nice advantage for either guy because either you get like a Nicola Vucevic on Jason Tatum where that's just fun, or you have, you know, Colby White or somebody of Patrick Williams like that and Chris Apps Porzingis, and he's been feasting on that. So, you know, you look at some of the numbers, Chris, and you look at what KP has been able to do. Post up guy, I think he's 1.2 points per possession. Most efficient post up score in the league right now. How much easier is this for Boston when they have a 7 foot 3 chico? Because, like, watching it from where we're sitting obviously is something else. But you look and you talk to some people that, that work for the team or talk to the guys like they must eyes must get big when he's out there because this is just a huge luxury right now.
- [09:05]
Chris Forsberg
When he is earning with me, this team is just a whole nother level. Maybe my favorite quote of the year when he was describing 100% some Latvian expression that did not translate and I love that he just could not even kind of get through the rest of the quote because he realized how ridiculous it sounded. So when the starters were going through it and those first 10 games together where they were -11.4 net rating, I think a lot of us sat there and said, like, why isn't this working? And further confounding was that, like, Porzingis was pretty good for some of it. And I think what they realized in that moment was it would have been easy for them to say, hey, the numbers are off the charts with Al in that role. For whatever reason, this group doesn't have the mojo. Let's just use that and, like, figure it out down the road or whatever. But I think they recognize, right, like, if you're going to go through the bumps, do it now. The ultimate, the highest level of this Celtics team is with poor Zingis on the floor, making the offense just another level. And I know going into last night, I think that group last five games was at like 128 net rating. I suspect it's still pretty. Pretty robust considering the points they. They put up last night. It, like, again, if Porzingis is playing like this, it takes some stress off the Jays. You just get the sense that they know this is. This is the pathway to sort of having that, that. That championship mojo they had last year and gives them the best possible. So they just navigated the bumps now, like, they're still figuring some stuff out, especially defensively, like, and how to balance it all. You know, everyone still wants their touches. It's a lot easier to get everybody multiple shots when Kristoff's isn't out there and it's just out in. So they'll smooth that out over the second half of the season. But, like, probably the prime reason and it's, you know, sort of interlocked, right, that the starters are better and Kristaps has just been fantastic in the stretch. Like, that's the biggest reason for optimism right now is that for whatever reason, that was super clunky. You know, Kristaps comes back when they're 21 and 5 or, you know, as right before they got to that mark, and you're thinking, man, this could be. This could get ugly for the league. And didn't and went the other way. And they've been super inconsistent, and there's a lot of layers to that. But ultimately, if I'm gonna. If I'm gonna hinge on one thing, it's gonna be okay. If Kristoff's playing like this, I'm. Maybe it's like anecdotal, but, like, I'm. I'M doing the cringe less during the game when he comes like, goes for up for a rebound. Like he just looks more fluid and safe. I don't know what like the right word is there, but yeah, like the more they can play him, the more the one thing is his second half splits are, have dropped off. Like his first half numbers are amazing. Even that other night when he had the 26 points, 24 points, whatever it was, and then kind of a quieter second half yesterday was one of his better second halves in terms of efficiency. They just got to figure that out. And I think that could just be conditioning and, and getting back to playing so many minutes when, you know, for the better part of nine months he hasn't, he hasn't had to exert that much.
- [11:53]
Adam Kaufman
This team is 34 and 15, third best record in the NBA. You wouldn't know it based on the way most people talk about them, but that's the reality now. You look at a lot of what you guys just talked about and what we've been dissecting so far and what we've seen over the last month and whether or not there's room for optimism and all this stuff as you kind of expanded upon, you can't ignore at the same time that last year was a, in all the best ways, a really long year. And then obviously it was a really long off season for, or short offseason, I should say, but a busy offseason for, for some of these guys, you know, for Tatum and, and White and Holiday in particular. And I think you can really drill down on each guy kind of has their own thing, I guess, but, but you can look at those three rolling right from winning a championship and, and all the, especially for Tatum, all the celebrity that comes along with it and then going into the Olympics and you know, even though he wasn't gassed out there and then into a new season. And you now look at what we've seen in recent months, like it's, it's been a down year for Holiday. Maybe some of that is the lack of layoff, maybe some of that is age. It's been a down season for White after an incredible first 20 game or whatever it was start. Tatum, like you said, is it a little bit of a downturn? Is it just the way he's being defended? Brown I think has mostly been pretty consistent.
- [13:21]
Chris Forsberg
Porzingis three point shot hasn't fallen. Like yeah, that's true.
- [13:25]
Adam Kaufman
You know, Porzingis started off unavailable. Now he's come back and he's starting to get into a little bit of a rhythm. Al is just, you know, I mean, say what you will about the man, I mean he's, he's, he's not ageless. He's going to get a little bit older. I know you want him to, you know, the, the royal, you want him to be here for all eternity, but eventually he's going to slow down and, and we're seeing at times some of that as well. I, I just, I, I, I bring all of this up, I guess as a build up to is a lot of this just kind of expected it physically, mentally, emotionally, psychologically, with what they did last year on through to where they are now and what the goal is. Obviously the, the carrot that's in front of them that they're chasing to where record's fine. You know, like you're not worried about falling out of a top four, losing home court, they don't care. I don't think really about chasing the onesie and, and having, you know, home court advantage all the way through the playoffs. Nice as it would be. I don't think it's a priority. Like if it's going to be Cleveland, it's going to be Cleveland. Do you have to start to build in some more forced rest days and whatever else? A great example, you know, when Tatum popped up on questionable on the injury report before the Chicago game, I was certain he was not going to play. Not because he couldn't or didn't want to. I just thought, I know he's a hard guy to take off the floor. I thought this is a day. They're going to make him just sit. This is Tatum. This is, this is a rest day. Sorry. Like you got to do it, you know, I appreciate that he's not a kawhi, an embiid and all like all these guys that just really embrace load management. He wants to be out there every single game. That's great. But I think physically we're going to have to start to slow some of these dudes down, you know, in, in the lead up to April. So does, does that have to kind of start now?
- [15:12]
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- [15:38]
Chris Forsberg
Well, I think you're, you're looking at the schedule and you're thinking probably like if you can just navigate to the deadline, I mean to the, to the, the, the All Star break you get like a little bit of a, of a break. Like where not only do they get it's not going to be a huge break for Tatum because he's going to fly cross country to Golden State and do all that and all that comes with the All Star game. But then you come back and you play that one game against Philly to start the second half and then I think they get that weekend off. So there's going to be baked in like a really quiet 10 day span where I think he can kind of hit the recharge button. Derek White well, as much as it was fun while he was in that All Star conversation, I hope when he went to join the Olympic team he missed out. They were all his family was in like Cabo for his 30th birthday and he didn't get to go and they brought a cardboard cut out of him and like texted him while he was in Abu Dhabi and all that. And so I hope he gets to go sit on a beach and just relax. I hope Drew Holiday whatever they got to do him and Al can can can like rent an Airbnb with multiple cryo chambers or whatever to to be feeling better but we'll see. I would I think there's, there's a potential here for navigating the second half season back to backs whatever the that that needs to be. But I feel like they're in a good spot. I feel like they're, they're, they're, they're, they're navigating it well I do agree like they need, they need to find Tatuma a day or two along the way although making game winners. So let's not sure not sure we need to nitpick too much.
- [17:06]
Adam Kaufman
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- [17:32]
Evan Valenti
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- [18:44]
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- [19:24]
Evan Valenti
All right. Back here with Chris.
- [19:26]
Adam Kaufman
So ev, you know, just to keep going with what we were talking about with, with Chris there, I think the Tatum game winner is a good thing to bring up.
- [19:32]
Evan Valenti
You know, how good was the camera from the guy on the. Oh my God.
- [19:38]
Adam Kaufman
I mean that's, that's a lifetime memory right there. That's a comm.
- [19:41]
Evan Valenti
That's going to be a commercial. Somebody's going to.
- [19:45]
Adam Kaufman
Turn that into a commercial overnight. It's coming for sure. That's coming. Absolutely. You know, back in the anything is possible days. But yeah, I mean I, I don't worry about Tatum. I think, well, for one, I think we can finally, if people haven't put the whole like Tatum isn't clutch narrative to bed Like I think he's hit enough of these big shots late in games even when he's, you know, struggling. Not that he was struggling last night, but even in a specific game when he's struggling, can't find a shot whatever, like he still does generally show up in these moments. It was, it was a nice thing to see. I'm sure it was a confidence building thing to see. But you know, Ev, there's just so much in front of this team again that I really think, you know, again building on what we were just saying with Chris, I think they need to find a way to sort of slow this thing down a little bit after a crazy month.
- [20:35]
Evan Valenti
Yeah. And it's, and it's eyeing the prize in terms of what you really need to build for. You need to build for, you know, somewhere between 16 and let's call it like 20, whatever games coming up at the end of the season here, you gotta, you gotta build up for that. And however you do that, you know it's gonna be on everybody to sort of be honest here. I think, I think you know, Tatum Celtics have like three guys that are ironmen. They have Tatum, White and my guy Sam Houser, who also for the most part doesn't his time. So you know, the one thing I'll, and I'll throw Jalen through there too. Jalen, you know, unless he's really hurt plays so this team over the past seven, eight years when the guys that are really important to play, they play. But when you look at a Drew Holiday, you look at Al Horford and there's just the injury history of the Chris absorbing it. You're going to have to be careful here. I mean Al, I say it all the time like I just want him to have fresh legs. So that three point shot's good for the playoffs, right? You when the three doesn't falling, it's surprisingly frustrating to watch Celtics, you know, run anything on offense because Al is such as like a, like a, just a safety valve over in the corner somewhere. And that shot being there all the time and him hitting that respectable clip makes them so much harder to guard. Like yeah, KP is awesome and, and so is, is Tatum and Brown and all that stuff. But like that leak out shot's important like that. If you go back to the first half of that New Orleans game on Friday night, like Sam Houser hit a couple of threes and it's like do you know how big that is to have that consistently going through the net for Boston? Because like they already have so Many guys that are hard to guard anyway. But if those not the, the secondary or tertiary guys, you're talking sixth, seventh, eighth guys in the bench are knocking down 40% their three point shot, you're going to be, you're in for a tough sledding for a series. So look at that. I look at Drew Holiday, another guy that I have to get right. You know, those 60% from the corners. Threes aren't going in nearly as much this year. That's a little bit of an issue. And Derek White, like Derek, I always measure Derek's shot by like the floater game, not necessarily the three point shot, but if he's put on the deck, getting in the lane or just like pulling up from 10 or 8 or 12 with that little runner, like if that's going in, then you're in a, you're in a world of trouble because he doesn't need a lot of room for the three point shot to get off. But if he's pump faking from the left or right wing and putting the ball on the floor and getting into the middle of everybody and making decisions there, that's when they're really the most difficult. So as you look at, I'm not worried about Tate, I'm not worried about Brown. It's the KP Horford, Drew White combination of like are those guys well rested? Are they, you know, in terms of injury, are they healthy? If those guys are like that, then yeah, you we talked Chris mentioned earlier, like just send the Larry o' Brien trophy right back to TD Garden. But if they're not, life gets a little bit more difficult and I don't know Forsberg, of those four guys and I'll eliminate Porzingis just because I think he carries a little more weight of those three guys, the White, Holiday and the Horford, like which is if you had to pick one guy to be 100 healthy, which one would you have? Because I would argue last year that Holiday was the third best player in the playoffs. He was unbelievably good for them. I would put Derek a little higher this year. But like those three guys, what is the like weigh the importance of which guy needs to be healthy as we go forward here.
- [23:54]
Chris Forsberg
It's funny, right, because you, you would expect Derek would probably be the most healthy of the bunch. You know, not like besides getting teeth knocked out or whatever that happened in, in last year's playoffs, like he's going to be out there. I think he's the most vital of that group to their success. I think we've seen, like, when Derek is a positive, the numbers are over 90% winning percentage. It's like, all you need is a good game from Derek, and typically good things are going to happen. And that's also reflective that the usual starters are, as a whole, are in the positive. I have confidence that Drew, like, I don't think he's going to be back at 60%, but like he showed last year, he knows how to pace himself. He knows, like, when to turn it up a little bit. When you've won two gold medals and two NBA titles, it's probably a little bit tougher to get ramped up for New Orleans on a Friday night in January. So I'll give him a little bit of a pass. I think Al's the same way. Like, while he's been steadier, and I don't think he has as much of a reason for. For a downturn. He is 38, and I think we know that when it matters most, he's typically going to knock down those shots. So as. As uncharacteristic as those guys missing has been, like, if you're telling me they're going to make that against Cleveland in the fourth quarter of a playoff game, I'm probably a little bit more confident. So I do think it's. You know, one of the things I was thinking about as you guys were running through it is, is I haven't really given this much thought, is they are playing the starters a lot right now in terms of, like, everybody's healthy finally. They haven't had a lot of opportunities to. To run the top nine together and figure out that, you know, maybe it makes more sense to do it in this stretch where, okay, like, let's try some stuff. Let's see the starters together. Let's take some bumps because the second half of the year, and by second half, I mean, whatever the final 24 games, sprint to the finish line. If you do have to turn some of those guys down, like, okay, now you can build back up Hauser's confidence, Pritchard's confidence. Those guys will play more. You're. You have enough depth where that shouldn't be an issue. But I guess this is the sort of figure it out stage, and they probably have to figure it out a little bit more than we thought they would based on some of their struggles. So I keep saying it right? Like, I'm not trying to explain away why it's been a rough patch, but as long as they're learning, as long as they're Moving in the right direction. I can look back in three months from now and say, okay, I get, like, why it was a little unsightly at times and why I had to launch my remote through a tv because they're fumbling away games as long as they're better when it matters. So hopefully, like, hopefully that. Not to give them an out, but hopefully that's. That's it. There is some of that going on and we'll see how much the rest in the second half of the year figures into it. But I think they're gonna be fine because their death depth is what sort of differentiates them.
- [26:26]
Adam Kaufman
Is there a general concern or is it just the physicality of it all? You know what I mean? Like, the ability to just stay out there, be healthy, water is going to kind of find its level, that type of thing. Or is there something that you're specifically worried about that maybe is a little, I don't know, less mechanical, a little more. This just doesn't fit compared to what we saw last year.
- [26:51]
Chris Forsberg
I mean, ironically, like, the starter struggles. The first 10 games together and they're -11.4. It didn't. It one. It's just like, it's so jarring when there's so much talent in that group. How are they so bad in that stretch and even, like, I think they were 6 and 4 overall in those games. So, like, good, not great. I was worried about that. It's turned the last six games, like I said, up over, I think plus 20 something at this point. The offensive rating has been great. So they're kind of figuring that out. I was worried about the clutch stuff. I was worried about the clutch stuff last year and then they steamrolled in the playoffs. 6, 0 in clutch games. Like, it's a reminder that it's. The data does not usually transfer. But I did think, like, I needed to see them be better. So even. And I think that's why you watch the New Orleans game and you're maybe not like super warm and fuzzy, but when JB and Jason are each knocking down big shots when you need them, you know, it makes you. It's okay, good. Like, they're definitely growing in that. Dick Leipz sent me a stat after the game and I was blown away.
- [27:44]
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- [28:13]
Chris Forsberg
Availability varies to to tie or take the lead last five seconds. Tatum now has as many made shots as Paul Pierce 13 in their career. And I mean guys not even 27 yet. Right. So it's blows away because I we just became so conditioned to Paul Pierce making that shot all the time and now Tatum's doing that and he's certainly gotten better at it. That is even you know he was. He was off the board and clutch player of the year odds to start to see as a. No one would have thought based on his struggles in that situation that he would be in that conversation. But like I think at least three of those shots this year now the winner against Toronto, he had one against Houston even though they lose it in overtime and now this. And you just feel like game slowing down a little bit for him in that moment which sounds crazy because he's like so good. But you know I keep thinking back that Denver game a couple years ago and. And like rushed at the finish line, didn't get a great shot. You know there's obviously been multiple instances where Celtics haven't gotten the best look in that situation. So there's progress and if the starters are good and they're good in the clutch, I go back to it. They're like they're going to win a title. It's just a matter of they sometimes lose their mind and it's super maddening in those moments and they just gotta tighten that up.
- [29:25]
Adam Kaufman
We'll let you go in just a couple minutes. And you know, before we do, I gotta mention obviously the next game of this road trip is at Philadelphia and this team is not what people expected it to be.
- [29:38]
Chris Forsberg
You want to talk about the. The big man. The. The NBC caliber big man on their team.
- [29:42]
Adam Kaufman
I can't. I mean of the. I brought this up if you know this like I. I brought this up up yesterday or the day before on our text thread of all the things I could not have anticipated when it comes to you know, guys that like ains drafted that kind of floated through here and they were gone like you know, like Max Truce turning into a player doesn't shock me. I wanted them to keep him at the time when they chose Javante Green or Whoever it was, you know, like, Neesmith becoming a player doesn't shock me. He just didn't really get the run, didn't get the opportunity here. Yabu Selly becoming a player I did not see coming, like, that was not on my bingo board. Yabu becoming like a. A legitimate, like, 2010 threat on any given night.
- [30:26]
Chris Forsberg
Can we see what Ante Zizix is up to now? Yeah, right.
- [30:30]
Evan Valenti
Like R.J. hunter back in here.
- [30:35]
Chris Forsberg
So, like, to me, Yabu always had potential. It just was clear, you know, needed to probably get out of the NBA spotlight a little bit, which was weird because he, like, crashed the draft that year. No one's really heard of him, but he always had the potential. The one thing that I guess kind of gave me belief that he would be great is, like, every time he popped up in international play and more so lately with the Olympics and how good he was for France. But, like, every time I would watch him in the international game, it was like, wow, he's made a ton of strides. He got his body in better shape and just became like a legitimately good basketball player. And I think we're seeing that now, like, just even beyond the base stat line. You know, he's going to really help a team, and he fits the modern NBA really well, and he shoots it well from distance now and can give you defensive versatility. You know, it would be a. As we look ahead to the trade deadline, there's not a lot of deals that make sense. And I don't suspect Philly because of the fact that they'd have to get down to the bottom six or get a top six pick on the lottery. You'd be running. You'd be really rolling the dice to tank and try to just, like, better your odds there. So I don't think they're going to move off of players, like, who knows how much Embiid will play at the finish line. I think they're more like, you cross your fingers, you hope that you catch lightning in a bottle with those. With that trio. And by trio, I mean Gershon, Yabu, Saleh, Tyrese Maxey, and whoever else you want to throw in there. Because Paul George and. And Embiid are just too much of a wild card. But I would love. I wish, you know, I. I think there's an opportunity for the Celtics to examine some opportunity. Like, guys like that minimum salary. You don't necessarily even have to trade out a player to bring something back. You just trade draft picks to take on a minimum guy. So the Javante Greens of the world, the. The Abu Selles, like, every. Every reunion that I could daydream about because I like, those are the ones that I. That most excite me. And o' Shea Brissette's still out there. Like, there's. There's plenty of opportunities that they just want to kind of tinker on the fringes and get one more guy in here. But Yabu might just. Yabu might be playing himself out of the conversation. He's just too good. And I guess if I'm the Sixer, he maybe roll it through to next year and hope he wants to be back and try to sell him on the same thing. He probably thought this year he's like, man Bead and Paul George, this team's gonna be so good. And now he's probably looking at like, what the hell did I sign up for, guys?
- [32:44]
Adam Kaufman
Gotta get himself a contract.
- [32:46]
Chris Forsberg
I hope so.
- [32:47]
Adam Kaufman
It's crazy, and I don't know.
- [32:50]
Chris Forsberg
I was joking with someone else. I said, I don't know what the number is, but, like, he's not a minimum guy. You know, if I. If I was a team that had cap space next off season, and I was just looking. I mean, still 27, I think 28.
- [33:01]
Evan Valenti
Right.
- [33:02]
Chris Forsberg
You know, there's. There's an opportunity for him to grow and be. Be something. I wish, because, like, I remember one of the years he was dominating in the Olympics. I think he was maybe told Washburn on the Globe, he was like, I can't keep waiting for the Celtics call me, like, I'd be open to an NBA return. And he was kind of just begging a team to. To give him another. Another chance. And what's the.
- [33:20]
Adam Kaufman
What's the minimum salary now?
- [33:21]
Chris Forsberg
Two and a half? Like, 2 million, like, depending on your years of service.
- [33:25]
Adam Kaufman
I will not be surprised If Yabu gets 10 mil a year.
- [33:28]
Chris Forsberg
Yeah. And I think that's probably on the high side, like. But I think, put it this way, like, Luke Cornett came back on a minimum, and mostly because he was really comfortable here and he knew he would be accentuated. He'd have a no trade. So they, like, kind of move them and. Which is crazy that Luke Cornett is one of the few people in the league with a no trade. But, like, you know, sometimes you just have to bet on yourself and that you'll have a good year. And, like, Luke will have opportunities next summer to decide does he want to just be part of whatever the core looks like, or does he want to go cash in somewhere? Does Yabu want to just Run it back with Philly or, or find a team that can pay him. What, what should happen is Utah Denny and should take some of that cap space they got and reunite with Yabu and you know, figure out whatever if he's a, a piece of their core.
- [34:11]
Adam Kaufman
And just already trying to make good with it right now. Hey, there are only so I'm kind of jealous he can, he can fix.
- [34:17]
Chris Forsberg
This time of year. Like I and I look, I, I, I like I love Isaiah and I've been kind of against the idea because I don't love the idea of he's someone who needs to play and you know people, I love the idea of him being here. I would love if he was like an assistant coach or something. But if he's trying to do the comeback thing, it's just not enough reps here to, to, to maximize what he needs to do. That being said, like yeah, the idea every time like when Kemba Walker before he decided the next phase of his career and you know, I'm always like man, if we just get these guys their positivity, their vibes, if we can just get, get them and be part of this all that would be great. But you know, that's not how it always works out in the NBA. But good on Yaboo Yabu, please. As, as every role player in the league torches the Celtics in the last last month. If you could not go for 30 plus and just that would be nice.
- [35:04]
Adam Kaufman
Chris Forsberg, NBC Sports Boston. We are going to let him go and we thank you obviously for your time, Chris. Always. We'll, we'll do it again real soon here, see how the next month goes. Certainly a calmer month for the Celtics and the rest of the NBA for that matter with the all star break. Can't wait for that Mac McClung led dunk contest. That's going to be a, a ton of fun but Forsberg. Thanks buddy. All right, we'll let Chris go. We'll, we'll take a quick break here, tell you about our friends at game time. You know, there is nothing better than going to a live game truly. I mean at any level. Pro, college, in between with the minors. So many core memories that I have as a kid with revolve around going to some sporting event. Heck, I know you don't have to pay to get into these, but even Cape Cod Baseball league, just going to sporting events, it's an absolute blast. It's the kind of thing that stays with you forever. But if you do go to a level like a Pro game that you need to pay. Go into a game, it's even easier than ever before. Thanks to our friends EV over at Game time.
- [36:06]
Evan Valenti
Yeah, Coffman, the best part of game time is how easy it is to tell how much money you are saving with game. Game Time picks when you log on to the app. It's the easiest way to do it. Log on to the app, pull up on your phone, you'll see tickets lab with a great deal, an amazing deal, which are all amazing, trust me, they're all spectacular. But you're looking for the super deal, which means the tickets you're looking at are the top 1% of prices based on the value of the ticket. And again, you'll see that probably right in front of your face as soon as you you bring the app up on your phone. In with the Celtics going forward here. February, Kaufman. Big month, bud. Huge NBA Finals rematch in the Garden February 6th against the Mavs. Victor Wembanyama comes to Boston February 12th. Going to be a hot ticket there. I look, I think whenever Boston, New York are together, it's always a good time. Sunday, February 23rd, Knicks are in town and the last game against the Cavs at home comes February 28, the end of the month. So look at those dates just for the Celtics. There's more obviously going on in the world of Boston in probably whatever neck of the woods that you're in in terms of sports. But just keep it to a Celtics thing here, buddy. Four games that should all be on your list to go to and make sure you get there with game time because they have all in pricing. You get a panoramic view from your seat, they have the lowest price guaranteed. And if you somehow find tickets that are less expensive, Game time will credit you 110% of the difference in your purchase from Gametime is covered with the most flexible customer service policy in the ticketing industry, bar none.
- [37:46]
Adam Kaufman
And if I took my middle son, who is starting a little jersey collection here, went to the Mavs game, went to the spurs game, is he allowed to wear his Luka or Wemby jerseys?
- [38:00]
Evan Valenti
I'll allow the Wemby. I'll allow Wemby. He's amazing. Luca. Yeah.
- [38:04]
Adam Kaufman
Tatum and Brown in the closet, though. It feels like sacrilege. You got to do that.
- [38:08]
Evan Valenti
You got to. Yeah, it is.
- [38:09]
Adam Kaufman
It's a monster schedule coming up at the Garden this month. Here, as EV mentions, take the guesswork out of buying tickets with game time. Download the Game time app, create an account, use the code CLNS for $20 off your first purchase terms apply. Again, create an account redeem code CLNS on the Game Time app for $20 off download game time today. Last minute tickets, lowest price guaranteed. Let's get back to Forsberg. Our thanks once again to Chris. Always great stuff from him. And make sure you check out the, the Celtics talk pod as well. You know, we're not afraid to promote other podcasts of the zillion in the Celtic space. Look, you've people that I assume have. Have their favorites. So we appreciate people always being here with us. So with a lot of the stuff that we talked about with Chris and just this again, painfully up and down stretch this team has been on, I mean, you see them as a heavy, heavy favorite against Chicago, for instance, you know, someone who immerses himself in the betting space, obviously a 14 and a half point favorite. I really didn't think they were going to cover in part because I didn't think Tatum was going to play. Instead, they win the thing by, you know, 20 plus points. New Orleans, again, a situation where not as much but a considerable favorite and almost lost outright. I mean, they, they had to really squeak that one out, never mind cover the number. Now you're going to have Philadelphia, a team that obviously everyone is going to just assume, roll out the balls. Boston's going to win this thing. At least that's maybe not the Celtic fan mentality who watches this team on a daily basis, but the national mentality of what Boston should do against an inferior opponent. What do you feel like you need to see? Not specific to that game, but just in the next couple of weeks here off of the January that we had, you know, sort of leading into the, the All Star breaks.
- [40:05]
Evan Valenti
The all.
- [40:05]
Adam Kaufman
The last game before the all star break is February 12th. Gives us basically two weeks of basketball. It's 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 games before then. What do you need to see in these next six games? Games from this team in general. And I don't mean a record per se, but just on the floor, just.
- [40:23]
Evan Valenti
Like more activity defensively. I think if you're going to get on the Celtics or anything, I think it's just their defense. I just think they're kind of walking through the motions right now. I mean, I love Trey Murphy, so it was fun for me, but Trey Murphy going off for 40 plus is not great. You know.
- [40:42]
Adam Kaufman
In fairness though, who else was it gonna be like? Zion didn't play Murray season now apparently. So it was Murray and, and, or Murphy. Pardon me, and McCullum like that was it.
- [40:53]
Evan Valenti
Yeah. Yeah, that's. And, you know, obviously, again, kids, an unbelievable basketball player. And he just got paid this off season. And he's a guy that I really like. I mean, he's just fun to watch. But, you know, having him go for 40 plus is not great. Again, I just think defensively, I think they just need to tighten the screws a little bit. I think they're just. They're kind of sleepwalking through it. I mean, there are possessions I can't go, you know, pull specific ones, but you'll know what I'm talking about. The guy's just not giving it the wrong defensive side. Like, they're one on one with somebody, and they just get blown right by. And it's like Derek White's getting blown by on defense. Like, this is not what I normally am accustomed to. Like Jalen, who has spent more time guarding number ones than anybody else in the league this year. That was a great stat that we saw the other day. You know, he's not as good defensively as he was last year. He took a lot of pride in that last year and made it a point to tell everybody that he was taking. He was disappointed not being all. All defensive team. And how he puts that effort in. Like, we're not seeing it this year now. Is that on purpose? I think maybe so. I think they're just trying to, you know, look, man, this is a. This is a marathon, not a sprint. We have to get to the end of this thing. But if you're looking for things to get better, that's number one thing with a bullet for me. They're still a top, you know, five team, top 10 team on offense and defense, which is where you want to be, but they can certainly be better on that end. They've been better defensively, you know, pretty much ever since Brad Stevens got here. They've been a really good defensive team. And I think it's just more guys just locking in a little bit better. Like, locking a little bit more and taking more pride in that, because I just think that's the problem. The only, you know, the exception is Jaden Springer, who's out there guarding guys all 92ft. It just seems like the biggest dude's doing. He's the biggest pain in the ass I'd want as a live with a live dribble. Like, I. I wouldn't want that guy any near me, but it's probably because I suck at dribbling. But, like, it's just one of these things where you Know, just getting on guys tighter, not letting them go blow by you. Like certain guys, like a Zach Levine, like, he's on a heater right now and if he gets by, sure. But like, some other guys are like, okay, what is this? You know, this is Derek White and Drew Holiday. These guys are both first team, all defensive guys. Like, you have Jason Tatum, who's nly the most versatile defensive player in the league with the way he can guard point guards and centers, but at the same time, like, they're still getting wins. I think at the end of the day, the W is what means the most because as you look at the rest of the landscape, you're trying to keep certain teams at bay and try and let you know, stay at number two in the standings so you at least have home court until the Eastern Conference finals. But, you know, I would like to see better defensive rotations out of guys. And as we talk with Forsberg, you know, getting more reps together again as they reintegrate. Chris App. Sports I guess it's going to be huge. I don't know. But you, what are you looking for? Like, are you looking for, you know, better shot selection, guys getting hot like a Hauser or, or a Jalen Brown from three. Like, what are you looking for over the next couple of weeks?
- [43:45]
Adam Kaufman
I would like to see, and this probably won't happen the next couple of weeks specifically, but over the stretch run anyway of the regular season, I want to see White look a little more like he did in the first few weeks of the season. I want to see Pritchard, you know, who was like, no doubt about it, six man turned back into that guy who was a, a consistent scoring threat off the bench. It's, you know, Hauser, that'd be nice. But those two guys in particular, and it's not even like I feel like I should include Holiday in the mix, but I. There's a part of me that, you know, a la Travis Kelsey. It's not a perfect comp, but I just sort of feel like he's, he's saving himself for the postseason. You know what I mean? Like, we're going to see a different Holiday when we get to April, May, June, if the Celtics are lucky enough to still be playing at that point than we're seeing right now. I just think there's, there's a, a conservation of the body and energy that is happening right now. Not that I would the competitor that he is ever expect him to admit to that, but I just sort of feel like that's what's happening with him right now. I'm hopeful that's what's happening with him right now. So I guess it's, it's, you know. And you'd like to see Brown's three start to fall with a little more consistency.
- [44:56]
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- [45:58]
Adam Kaufman
Tatum, who's been I know we had the good night against the Pelicans, but he's been super up and down over the last couple of weeks in terms of, you know, not even just whether or not he hits his shots but, you know, shot volume. You know, he's been more deferential. I'd like to see him, you know, take over some more of these games. I'd like to in, in these next six games, I'd like to see a couple of, you know, I'm not getting greedy. Like I don't need to drop 50. I'd like to see a couple of 30 point games out of Tatum. He averaged 30 points last year. I, I'd like, you know, couple of those, like just a little bit of a little nudge reminder of kind of who they were last year, who we've seen them be at points this year who they hope to be going forward obviously just, just a couple of those performances because you know in the stretch that you've got like Philly should not be a problem. Cleveland is going to be a competitive game. Dallas probably will be too. You know, Kyrie tends to rise to the occasion for games like that. I know there's no Luca. The Knicks, especially in New York, that's going to be tough. Miami, I mean will they have dealt with the Butler thing by then? Who knows? That team is, is sort of floundering and, and then Wemby, who I like, I, I really did not think that you know, Wemby was not just him but that team, that spurs team was going to knock off the Bucks as we sit here last night. I, I didn't think that was going to happen, let alone blow doors. And Wemby huge part of that. So he is just getting better by the day before our eyes obviously and getting more consistent than he was as a rookie and, and here he is as a first time all Star. So you know, if these six games coming up, you got a. At least two, three in there that on paper are pretty tough. We'll see how they all bear out in reality. You'd like to see Boston at least go 4 and 2 on this stretch. I mean that, that would be I, I think something that will, would satisfy most people going into the break if, if we are going to throw a record on it. But those are some of the things that I want to see. And then you know, once we get into the, you know, quote fingers second half because I know we're, we're way more than halfway through the year at this point in time. I don't know about you before we wrap up the show, I'm just, I, I'm a little bit surprised and, and not in a bad way. I, I think it's actually a good thing. I'm a little surprised that the Cavs have sustained this. You know, I, I not, I'm not even necessarily that they're still leading the east or leading the entire NBA for that matter. But 39 and 9, just because of the single digit just looks different than, you know, call it 36 and 12, you know what I mean? Like it just 39, 9 is, is really impressive and obviously there's no way to know right now what it's going to look like when we get to the playoffs. Everybody going to be healthy. Is, is this for real or is it a mirage? Is it like people have Made the comparison. Is it like, you know, Al Horford's Atlanta Hawks winning 60 games in the regular season, Then the playoffs, you know, come and. And they turn to a pumpkin, that kind of thing. Like, I think the Cavs, I've said this for a couple of years. Last year they sort of went on hiatus, but going back a couple of years ago, I thought that they were going to be really tough out in the playoffs. Obviously, I still feel that way, but I'm sort of happily surprised that this is still working and that they are still night to night making life difficult for their opponents and doing what they're doing with a deep roster. But maybe not the most household names.
- [49:34]
Evan Valenti
Well, they're not household names. I guess they haven't gone deep in the playoffs yet, you know, but they're. They're 6 and 5 their last 11 games. It's not like they haven't hit the skids, too. And something you got to acknowledge here, but, I mean, if you look at the roster, get the way they play offensively. I mean, they are one of the best team at sharing the ball and cutting in the league. If not like number one, what they can do with the two guards with Mitchell and Garland is tremendous. I mean, they have two bigs between Jared Allen and Evan Mobley, and Mobley's gotten way better this year, who stepped up in terms of his defensive game. Like, they've become much better defensively under Kenny Atkinson. But they grind you out, man. They grind you out. They're not. They're not going away anywhere. And, you know, we'll see if, you know, it comes back to the norm and they regress the mean a little bit. But, I mean, they play outrageously well together. You know, they get a lot of great shots. They kind of reminded me of Boston a little bit last year. I think what's funny is the three teams at the top between okc, Boston and Cleveland, like, they have a lot of similarities. I think if you take Boston's team last year and you look at what they were able to do, and this team is. You're obviously a little up and down, but they all kind of look similar in terms of they play great defensively and they have some matchup problems for a lot of people, then at the end of the shot clock or the end of the game, they all have guys that you can go to and get a bucket. Now, you know, we'll see with okc, it's very Shea heavy. We'll see if J Dub can help him out later on in the season into the postseason to be that second guy, you know, we'll see with Darius Garland is it was smaller guy who's going to get picked on whether he can carry that load as good of the playoffs. And we know with Boston that they can because they've done it right. That's, that's the one thing with this team that they can, they have the proof, they can have a little bit more confidence. Hey, look, we've won the title. We've been to two finals. We're in the Eastern Conference finals every single year, you know, and we're a Tatum rolled ankle away from going to like three straight finals, which is pretty impressive, but, you know, it'll be, it'll be interesting to watch them down the stretch. I, I think their, their way of playing basketball is going to keep them in the first overall seed. I think they're super talented, but it'll just come down to matchups. At the end of the day, when it comes down to playoff stuff, they're definitely going to be a real problem for teams. And you want to avoid playing them until, you know, you know, you don't physically have to, but I mean, look, it's nice to have the carrot, and we talked about this earlier in the year. It's nice to have something to chase. Boston isn't the best team in the league. They have a ways to go to get to that, that, that particular part of the league. But I do think that having Cleveland out in front by so much will keep this team focused because, you know, look, I think it's all been a little bit tougher than I think people expected to run this back. I think a lot of people, like, oh, this will be easy. Last year, look at last year, they were so great. This is going to be cake. No, this is hard. This is really hard. And going through it, you're seeing it night to night, like New Orleans, like Trey Murphy goes off. They're getting the best of everybody every single night. And you can't have down performances. And I think that's going to be good for them as they get ready for the playoffs. I'm not sure if you can say that if you're Cleveland, if you can say that if you're okay. So you can say this if you're Boston and, you know, trying to find silver linings here as we try to talk about this skid that Boston's on. Other teams have skids, too, but I think Cleveland is as legit as it gets. I think it'll be a fun matchup. If they get to play each other in the playoffs for sure.
- [53:05]
Adam Kaufman
Our thanks to Chris Forsberg once again, NBC Sports Boston to, you know, evil.
- [53:11]
Evan Valenti
Before we get out of here, can we have a little debate here?
- [53:15]
Adam Kaufman
If it's a quick one, do you.
- [53:16]
Evan Valenti
Think Jayla Brown should have been an All Star?
- [53:18]
Adam Kaufman
No, no.
- [53:21]
Evan Valenti
Don't reward a team in second place with two. Two guys.
- [53:25]
Adam Kaufman
It's, it's not, it's just. God, I, I, you know what, I'm glad you brought this up. I do have thoughts on the All Star and, and let's, let's do it next show so we can really expand upon it. I guess not, you know, little, little less timely at that point, but, but still a good conversation to have. Although the, the biggest snub of all was Sabonus. Sabonus not being an All Star is bananas to me, but that's, that's, I know, Western Conference, but even still, that's, that kind of bugs me. But yeah, I mean, we've, we've run about an hour for, for the people out there, short attention spans and whatnot. But we want to thank Forsberg. We'll get to the All Star conversation, I promise. We should have probably done it earlier in this show. Thanks to Ahmed hanging out with us behind the scenes as well. For ev. I'm Adam, everybody. Thanks for watching Celtics beat. We'll talk again next week.
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Evan Valenti
Yep.
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- [54:43]
Chris Forsberg
Listen.
- [54:44]
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Evan Valenti
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Chris Forsberg
More than an EV. This is electric performance.
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