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- [00:04]
Brian Barrett
When did making plans get this complicated?
- [00:07]
Adam Kaufman
It's time to streamline with WhatsApp, the.
- [00:10]
Commercial Announcer
Secure messaging app that brings the whole group together. Use polls to settle dinner plans, send.
- [00:15]
Adam Kaufman
Event invites and pin messages so no.
- [00:17]
Commercial Announcer
One forgets mom 60th and never miss.
- [00:20]
Brian Barrett
A meme or milestone.
- [00:21]
Commercial Announcer
All protected with end to end encryption.
- [00:24]
Adam Kaufman
It's time for WhatsApp message privately with everyone.
- [00:27]
Commercial Announcer
Learn more@WhatsApp.com this episode is brought to you by State Farm Checking off the boxes on your to do list is a great feeling. And when it comes to checking off coverage, a State Farm agent can help you choose an option that's right for you. Whether you prefer talking in person on the phone or using the award winning app, it's nice knowing you have help finding coverage that best fits your needs. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.
- [00:57]
Sponsor Voice
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- [01:24]
Adam Kaufman
Today is Saturday, February 22nd and this is Celtics Beat on the CLNS Media Network, the leading online provider of audio video coverage of the Boston Celtics. I'm Adam Kaufman. Episode 612 features the Ringers, Brian Barrett.
- [01:37]
Evan Valenti
And I'm Evan Valenti. And today's show is powered by Prize Picks. Prize Picks is the official daily fantasy sponsor of CLNS Media. Download the Prize Picks app today. Use the code CLNS to get $50 instantly when you play $5.
- [02:03]
Adam Kaufman
Hey everyone, welcome to a post Allstar.
- [02:07]
Brian Barrett
Break Edition beginning of the quote unquote.
- [02:09]
Adam Kaufman
Second half edition of Self Experience Beat here on CLNS. Great to have you with us, Evan Valenti alongside as always, I am Adam Kaufman. Thrilled to be joined by a recurring guest of the program, a good friend of the Celtics Beat space and that is Brian Barrett. Of course. He hosts the off the pike podcast for the Ringer. He is kind enough to have Evan and I on on his program as well. Every once in a while there's just, there's real good synergy with when the three of us Syracuse guys get together. And you know what, there, there are some things that we need to get into. The Celtics have played one game post breaks. We'll talk a little bit about that, not go crazy. I mean it was a couple days ago at this point, we'll look forward to what we have in front of us again, the stretch run of the regular season and, you know, playoffs right around the corner. Any concerns, anything like that? Jason Tatum already, you know, turning it up, as he annually does at this time of the year, taking his already MVP caliber game to yet another level, which is just always entertaining and fun to see. I. I do want to get into a couple of things related to the All Star Game and All Star Saturday and all that stuff, because we have not yet here on this show weighed in on it, but we won't go crazy with it because I know old news at this point where we need to begin. Well, for one, Barrett. Hey, how the hell are you?
- [03:31]
Brian Barrett
What's going on, guys? I am not as good as Peyton Pritchard right now after 28 points, but I'm a lot better than Joel Embiid after it looked like he couldn't move. So I'm in between those two extremes right now, I would say. So there you go. That's where I'm at. I would sit and be down for the season. I said this to a couple people. Like, I almost feel bad. Almost, by the way, feel bad for Joel Embiid because the Celtics not only just like, exposed him in that game, they ended up scoring 20 points on him as the primary defender, and they just kept attacking him, but he legitimately can't move and he's got that massive brace. What are you playing for? I don't know what the 76ers are doing now. You have this All Star break. Just shut him down. And maybe by the time people listen to this podcast, they'll announce they're shutting them down. But I. I don't know why they're playing that guy. But anyway, I'm much better than Bead. Slightly feeling less like Pritchard's gonna be feeling really good right now because the only, like, little bit of a stretch where he wasn't shooting the ball well was right before the All Star break. And he comes out and he hits five threes in the first half the other night. That was awesome.
- [04:32]
Adam Kaufman
Well, and it sort of rejuvenates the whole six man of the year conversation around Peyton Pritchard. I know Jalen Brown, among others, weighed in on that recently and how fun it would be to see him win. It would be. I mean, he was at one point in time, you know, kind of a runaway favorite for the award earlier in the season. There are a lot of people around here think he's deserving to get it. So we just need to see some of that consistency that was lacking for a little bit in his shooting there for a couple of weeks leading into the break. We could circle back to that. Where we have to start, though. I don't know how many people are even really aware of this because I don't feel like this was highly publicized. I mean, I guess if you follow certain accounts on social media, you probably stumbled upon something. But what probably everyone knows is that Bill Simmons, your boss, his HBO Max, or just Max now documentary about the Celtics. This nine parter is going to be coming out next month for streaming purposes for everyone to be able to watch. But the quiet part is there was a premiere, a, a red carpet, if you will, to, you know, bring people out, including you. For one, you were there, you were in the area, you know, other media people. I saw Jackie McMullen talking about going out there and, and chatting it up. Obviously Joe Missoula was there. You may have seen pictures. Jalen Brown, I mentioned before, he was there. Simmons flew into town. He's in the west coast these days. And so you had an opportunity to get a first glance, a first look at this dock here, Celtic City. I'm sure that you guys streamed all nine parts and you were just there all night long. And there were, you know, it was like people that go in and, you know, binge the, the Marvel movies, you know, non stop for 24 hours. You just, you couldn't get yourself a break. Just the occasional intermission. But what, what was this like? You know, what, what should people be on the lookout for beyond the trailer we've seen and, and some of the articles that have been written take us behind the scenes a little bit.
- [06:24]
Brian Barrett
Yeah, so in the screening they showed the 80s, which obviously that's sort of a sweet spot for most Celtics fans. Right. Younger Celtics fans like us didn't get to see the 1980s Celtics, which is 1986, arguably the greatest basketball team of all time, when they of course bring in Bill Walton. So the younger fans get to see that and Larry the Legend and all that. And then obviously most of the older fans, they had those teams growing up or, you know, even when they were older adults. So it was a good sort of point to pick up to show last night they showed the trailer as well, which I'm sure you guys saw, which is awesome. But there was a lot of stuff in the 80s that I obviously don't want to give too much away that I was not aware of. And I think like even some Celtics fans that were very much glued into that time were not aware of the stuff that was going on. Like, my dad was telling me he didn't know some of the stuff that was going on at that time. So I think that fans are going to really appreciate that. And one of the things I'm really interested about is, since it's nine parts is. And he's in the trailer, if you guys notice this, one of the most interesting parts of Celtics history to me, and I'm probably the only person that thinks this way, is the Rick Patino era, because it was just so bizarre, right? Like, think about nowadays where you had the third overall pick in the draft and you traded him. Like, essentially, it would be like trading tatum or jalen. 50 games into their first year. That's what they did with Chauncey Billups. Like, think about how crazy that is. So there's a whole episode about that version of the Celtics, or at least like a good portion. And Rick Patino is actually in the documentary. Like, Rick Patino hasn't really done interviews about the Celtics since he left the Celtics. So. And look, you go through the Koozie Russell era, all that. You go through the 70s, of course. You go through the big three Celtics with Garnett, with Pierce and Ray Allen. I'm interested in that one as well. All the way up until last year, they got their perfect ending for the documentary because the Celtics end up winning the championship. But the 80s stuff, it was really cool. And Bill Walton's in it, of course. Unfortunately, before he passed away, they were able to interview him. So it's unfortunate that Bill Walton doesn't get to see this whole thing because, I mean, he was not shockingly a star of the episode, which I don't think anybody be surprised by that. But the 80s stuff was awesome. I always love stuff about the 80s Celtics, but in a weird way, I was more excited to see what Pitino says. And, like, just hearing from the players from that era, like, what they thought. We have an idea of what they thought, but just like some of the craziness of that time.
- [09:03]
Evan Valenti
Yeah, it's one of these things. Well, let me. Let me jump in here. It's one of these things where, you know, you have so many think pieces and books and documentaries already about the Celtics. It's a little refreshing there to hear that there's going to be some new stuff in here, like some stuff that nobody's heard of yet. I know that they'll get into this last run, and then you'll have the KG Ray Allen, Paul Pierce stuff. But even as far back as the 80s, there's going to be some stuff that people don't know about. I think that's maybe the most exciting part about this is it seems to me like it's going to be the most comprehensive version of a documentary like this that's going to be out there. And for those of us that thirst for this content, it won't be that big of a deal because we would have watched this anyway. But, like, from what you're telling me, it. Look, it sounds like. I know you're trying give too much away because it's. It's coming out shortly. We'll all have to wait and see. But it sounds like, just from what you just told us, like, there's some stuff in here that people just don't know about yet and should be fun to kind of, like, bask in the reaction to it as it comes out. You know what I mean? You know what I'm saying?
- [10:03]
Brian Barrett
I agree with you. Yeah. Certain dynamics between different players on the team. Stuff that I was certainly unaware of and I haven't seen in any other documentary before where, like, it's been laid out in this fashion because we have seen stuff about the 1980s Celtics. I never heard of any of the stuff that, like, some of the stuff, of course, you know, but some of the stuff that they highlighted, I don't want to give anything away. It's stuff that you've never heard of before. And I will say this, not. This isn't a spoiler alert, but, like, some of the Lakers guys are awesome in it. Like, really entertaining. So I think, like, that was the perfect one to show for the screening. I think people are going to really enjoy that episode. And now, like, I want to watch all of them right now, like, to see. To go through it. And I'm excited, man. I'm excited. And obviously, like, anytime you have Larry Bird in a documentary, it's like, okay, this is going to be awesome. It's just like such a unique character in NBA history. Larry, he's the last guy that won three consecutive MVPs. 84, 85, 86. So this is, though, that episode is like when Larry Bird is at the peak of his powers, you know, it's just insane to think about it. Had. And look, I get it. Like, it's tough to, like, win three in a row, but Michael Jordan never did it, right? LeBron James never did it. Jokic never did it. Larry Bird is the last guy to do it. I mean, it's just insane to think that was 1986 the last time that happened. A guy had a three peat in the MVP and I don't know if it'll happen again like in the near future. It just, it seems like it's going to be impossible for a lot of guys have done it twice, right? Giannis did it twice. He did back to back, Jokic did back to back, Curry did back to back, LeBron did back to back. But nobody's had the three peat so.
- [11:49]
Adam Kaufman
I'm just looking and for anyone that doesn't know this debuts nine o' clock Eastern on HBO. Stream it on Max on March 3rd. New episodes will debut weekly through April 28th. Is I'm sure it's it's more of a a ballpark length per episode. You don't have to fit it into this exact like 60 minute with commercial kind of window like it would be on mainstream television. Is every episode as far as you know, roughly an hour or 45, 50 minutes or hour 10 or what it has it shake down?
- [12:19]
Brian Barrett
Yeah, I believe it's an hour. I believe that's what the episode was last night. So I would imagine that each of them are that way.
- [12:27]
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- [12:57]
Brian Barrett
Well yeah, it's crazy how many people they interviewed for this. It's insane going from like the early Celtics, right all the way through the current version. Like, like all the current players are in it. As you see. Like Jason Tatum is in the trailer, Jalen Brown's in the trailer, Joe Missoula is in the trailer. So you go like basically through the history of the organization. I think it's going to be. And it's an awesome time too, right, for this to be released as the Celtics get ready to make another postseason run where you can go back through the history of the organization. There's just so many stories to tell because nobody's really been as a consistent winner like other than maybe the Lakers, but the Celtics only Really, they had. They were obviously down in the 90s into the early 2000s, but even in the early 2000s, remember they made it to a conference finals. Not that they were ever going to win the championship. They ended up losing to who? The. The Nets? Yeah, the Nets end up losing to the Lakers. I remember going to a series where they played against Philly when I was really young. Allen Iverson was on that Philly team with.
- [13:57]
Evan Valenti
It's like 0203, something like that.
- [13:59]
Brian Barrett
Yeah. Eric Snow, Dikembe Mutombo, that group. So like, even that group was competitive. Then they tank and it's the big three Celtics. And then it doesn't take them very long to rebuild because of course, the picks they acquire for Garnett and Pierce. So it's really only the 90s, right? The 80s, they're awesome. They win some championships in the 70s. And obviously, you know, going back to the 60s and the Russell era, like, we know how successful they were then. So it's really only that one downturn. And really too, if you think about it in terms of the downturn, a lot of that is because of tragedy. So.
- [14:33]
Adam Kaufman
Yeah.
- [14:36]
Brian Barrett
Right, right.
- [14:36]
Adam Kaufman
It's a carryover from bias, you know, obviously from the middle of the 80s. It's the Reggie Lewis situation. It's, you know, birds health deteriorating. It's just, you know, the. And the destruction of. Of that big three. It's. Yeah. I mean, everything just sort of fell apart all at once. I mean, in some ways, not that I'm saying he deserves credit because I'm as down on the Patino era as anybody out there. And we all know how that could have looked. Totally independent of Patino. Just the bad luck of the lottery balls. Like there were people, you know, it's. It's gonna be Duncan and Van Horn that the Celtics are gonna get, and it, you know, it turns into Billups and Mercer, obviously, and it's a. A totally different thing. And then the. The sort of demand for power and ego and all of that for Patino that, you know, just tore everything down in. In different ways and. And poor roster management and signings. Like Travis Knight got that five year, $22 million deal, whatever it was, you know, which was an egregious deal at the time, obviously now that you wouldn't blink an eye at that type of thing. But yeah, I mean, the. The 90s were just such a weird time, but where I was going to start to like, you know, at least Pitino for all his warts, and you could say, well, he fell into his lap. What was he going to do? But he did bring in Paul Pierce. Like, let's, let's, let's give him that. And you know, he didn't screw it up. He didn't trade him away after 50 games. You know, so it, you know, that obviously started off that, that next time period, but it's true. I mean, when you talk about consistency in NBA history, the Celtics are largely right there with, with the Lakers. I'm with you on that. Yeah.
- [16:16]
Brian Barrett
Well, that's a great point on Pierce because we think about this through the history of the organization. They've hit on so many draft picks. Right? Like, you think about Tatum, where Danny Ainge would have taken him first, but he was able to trade down. Right. Jaylen Brown was not a popular pick. Remember, he was booed at the Celtics party. People didn't want Jalen Brown.
- [16:36]
Adam Kaufman
So there's been a lot of Chris Dunn among.
- [16:38]
Brian Barrett
Yeah, Chris Dunn or Buddy Heald, who was like 40 when he was drafted. Like, the guy was like two years older than his listed age. But think back to that draft. So like, Olua Candy, I just brought it up, goes first, which, like, at that point, like, everybody was drafting big men. Mike Bibby second. Rafa France went third. When Pierce was the better player on the Kansas team, it was weird because this is a time too, in 1997, of course, where guys were staying in college for, like, there wasn't a lot of one and done so that you would occasionally have a guy that would stay for a year. But it was more likely a guy would come out of high school and go to the NBA than a guy would go to college for just one year at that point. Right. And it was weird because Pierce is already like an all American and he was awesome at Kansas. So then Vince Carter or Antoine Jameson? Vince Carter, Robert Trailer, Jason Williams, Like, White Chocolate Jason Williams. Larry Hughes, High school Larry Hughes, of course. I think he's Jason Tatum's godfather. Isn't Larry Hughes Jason. Jason Tatum's godfather? I think he is, but I may be wrong on that. Yeah, I think he is Dirk, 9, so that's fine. And then Pierce at 10. Like, there's no way Paul Pierce should have fallen to 10 in that draft. Like you look at it, who had a better career than Pierce? Like Dirk, that's pretty much. He had a better career than Vince Carter, for sure. He also didn't quit on multiple teams like Vince Carter did. That's a whole different discussion. That's nothing to do with the Celtics. But you're Right, Kaufman, what happens if they never draft Pierce? Right? Like, if they. If they end up with Bonzie Wells, which they easily could have since they were 10th. Right? So it is one of those things where Pierce sort of sets the foundation for that next championship team. Remember, it was aggravating for Pierce at a point where they had traded away Antoine Walker and then they're playing for the ping pong balls and Danny Ainge makes the ultimate pivot, right? And look, Danny Ainge has said. I don't know if he said this, but it was believed that he would draft Kevin Durant if he had the number one pick. He was like the only person. But because you didn't get the first of the second pick, you of course make the Kevin Garnett trademark, right? And Pierce is like, okay, yeah, like, this is like, obviously this is going to be awesome. And then of course I remember. I don't know if you guys remember this, like going back to draft day where it's like, wait, the Celtics are trading for Ray Allen? Like, okay, yeah, Ray Allen makes them better. Him and Pierre, I don't know how perfectly those two fit together, but there's got to be another piece to this, right?
- [18:58]
Adam Kaufman
Right. What are we doing at the time, like, you get rid of the number five pick. Not, not that I was, you know, like, oh my God, let's get Jeff Green. But, you know, it's like you're trading the number five pick for Ray Allen. Yeah, to your point, like, what's he really going to, you know, at, like, to what level is he lifting up this team with. With this two man show of. Of Ray and Paul Pierce?
- [19:18]
Brian Barrett
So, yeah, that's like, yeah, that's like treadmill of mediocrity. Right. Where you would have been a good team and you would have had a good record, you would have made it into the playoffs, but you would have been. Wouldn't have been competing for a championship. So it's like, what's the point? Right? Like, just draft somebody and then of course we get the Garnett thing. Because Garnett initially, of course, as we all know, didn't want to come here at first. Right? He wanted to go to the Lakers. Yeah. I think prior to that he wanted to go to Phoenix, right. To play with Nash and they didn't end up making a move. But it was Phoenix, it was the Lakers. Then of course, he gets convinced to come here and obviously, well, going and.
- [19:49]
Adam Kaufman
Going full circle wasn't. Wasn't it Billups, one of the guys that convinced him to Come here.
- [19:53]
Brian Barrett
If I don't know that. That could be. That could be true. I don't know. I know they were really close. I think. I think one of them is one of the kids. God, I don't know. I'm doing a lot of Godfather talk today, but I think, like, I think those two are really close to Chino.
- [20:08]
Adam Kaufman
Yeah, well, I mean, look, the thing that gets me the most excited and have you alluded to this as well, is, you know, because, like, when. When the trailer first came out, we've got our little group thread here, which, honestly, Barrett should be on, and it's just so much Celtics talk all the time. We. We send the trailer around. It's like, oh, my God, Celtics porn and all this stuff, like, and any Celtics fan out there would react. But there was, you know, from our. Our buddy Seth, there was. There was a little bit of pushback, like, ah, I'm not going to watch it. And he's, I mean, as. As big a Celtics fan as I know. Like, why aren't you going to watch it? Because there's nothing that's going to be in there that I don't know, that I haven't heard, that I haven't read, that I haven't seen, that I haven't. Like, you know, like, we've done this, like, NBC Sports Boston did a documentary about the, you know, 80s and. And ESPN has. Has done its, you know, Celtics, Lakers, 80s doc, like, what's going to be new in this? So the fact that, you know, as. As you are saying that, you know, without saying specifically that there are so many things that are going to sort of, you know, either educate people or catch people off guard or whatever else throughout, you know, you've seen the one episode, but throughout nine of them. That's. That's the thing to me that, I mean, it's fun to go back and just sort of relive the good old days and regurgitate the past and, yeah, you get some new updated interviews and that type of thing. But what, you know, like, some of the Patriot stuff that's come out in. In the, you know, last couple of years, like, all right, what did we really learn from this? It's not a lot of new stuff to be able to get new stuff, provided that is what is promised here to us. That's what really takes it up to the next level for me that. That, you know, has me, like, counting down the minutes until, you know, March 3rd and we can start this thing.
- [21:48]
Brian Barrett
Yeah. Well, what we know from the Patriots recent documentary is that Kraft wants all the credit. He's on the same level as Belichick and Brady. He wants to get into the hall of Fame. And Belichick doesn't deserve a lot of credit for the championships. But to your point there, the 1980 stuff, which people know a ton about, ton of new stuff in that one, ton of stuff that I didn't know about. And we were just talking about the patino thing. That's something like we haven't had a history of. So there's going to be a lot of different stuff that people have not heard about with certain eras of the Celtics, right? And like the 80s, the most popular era, I would say, of Celtics basketball, obviously they had a ton of success before that, but the most popular, right. I mean, it's really the era that launched the NBA to a different level, right? Because you had Magic and Bird coming out of the same draft and they go, one goes to the Lakers, one goes to the Celtics, of course, and they become this huge rivalry. And then after that you go into the Jordan era. But even that, where we have so much about, there was new variations of stuff there. So I'm, I'm really interested in like the rest of the eras and how they go through that. Like another interesting thing to me, and obviously this wasn't in the screening because it was after this, but like the Havlicek post Russell era, like I'm interested in that and how much they go into that just because like Havlick. It was almost like when Curry needed to get like a title after Durant, even though he had one. But it was like this whole sort of thing of like, oh, Kyrie was hurt, right? Kevin Love was hurt and he, he wasn't the finals mvp, right. And I know this sucks is like saying this as a Celtics fan, but then it's like, oh, you got Kevin Durant, like, it was easy. And then he got that 2022 title, which I guarantee you means a lot more to him than especially the ones with Durant, but probably even more than the first one because it was like him, he finally gets the finals mvp. And sort of, you have that same thing with Havlicek, right, where he wins after Russell and like he's the guy. So I'm really interested in that part of. Because I feel like that's a. An under told sort of aspect of Celtics history. I mean, Chad Finn had a great book that came out last year. He had like all the articles from the history of the Celtics from the globe and like that's one of the things that I was most fascinated about is, like, going through the Havlicek stuff because I feel like. Not that, like, older Celtics fans don't appreciate him, but I feel like he's one of the most, like, under the radar great Celtics of all time. Right. Because we talk about Russell, we talk about Bird, and we talk about Pierce, and then, of course, we talk about Koozie, and more recently, Jason Tatum. But I feel like Havlicek just kind of like. We kind of, like, gloss over, like, how good that guy was. Yeah.
- [24:29]
Evan Valenti
It's not as many people around, you know, like, a lot of formidable. So, like, the formal years for Celtics fans came, like, during the 80s, whereas many people were watching it right back in the day. Before we move on Barrett, I just want to get a quick. The best picture that's come out from the screening is just, like, Joe Missoula not smiling at any of the photos. Did you get to meet Joe or anybody of, like, consequence last at the. At the premiere and have, like, a fun story?
- [24:56]
Brian Barrett
I didn't talk to Missoula. I did see that pic on social media, though.
- [24:59]
Adam Kaufman
It's so good.
- [25:01]
Evan Valenti
He's only smiling in the one with Wick, everyone. Every other picture, he's just, like, stone cold. Like, nothing here.
- [25:06]
Brian Barrett
I know.
- [25:07]
Adam Kaufman
Stoic Joe.
- [25:09]
Brian Barrett
Very on brand. Very on brand for Missoula. I. I feel like that's what we've come to love about him, though, right? Like, he is nothing if not genuine. Right? Like, he's Brandon brand, like, 24 7.
- [25:22]
Evan Valenti
That's pretty. You see the video of him, like, interrupting Jaylen's feature with Mannix. Like, the video.
- [25:29]
Brian Barrett
I didn't see that.
- [25:30]
Evan Valenti
Him walking in, he's like, this is the most interesting man in the world right here. Look at this right here, laughing like, what are you doing? Just coming here to bother me? Like, it's clear that there's a relationship behind closed doors that's much more fun that we don't get to see. And it's a little bit of a bummer because Joe's, like, obviously in certain ways, like, you know, pandering to the camera and such. But, like, there's some stuff that goes on behind the scenes that I wish we could see more of because, like, that relationship in itself I find fascinating. But we got a little. A little brief, like, 15 seconds into what it looked like. And you should see Missoula's face. He looks like an absolute psychopath when he. When he sees Jalen. It's so good. It's so, so, so good.
- [26:13]
Brian Barrett
Yeah, I did see Jalen was at, what was it, the Museum of Science.
- [26:16]
Adam Kaufman
Science, yeah.
- [26:17]
Brian Barrett
Launching the new shoe, which. Those look pretty sick, man. The white ones?
- [26:22]
Adam Kaufman
Yeah, I like the white ones better than. Than. Than the first ones that were kind of making their rounds. For sure. Not that. Look, Jalen, I see you sending them around to some media people out there. I see these people, you know, doing their, like, grand reveals on. On their Twitter pages. You want to send a pair over here? I can be bought. There's nothing wrong with that, you know. No, don't. Don't worry about it. But look, the. The thing that I think is. Is really interesting, and we'll move on to some more current stuff. This is a little bit more big picture, but that's okay. It's what we do here. Anyhow, I wasn't really thinking about it until you guys just sort of, in your own way, brought these up. But Joe is such a one of one as. As we know it's been talked about, you know, for basically the entire time that he has been in the spotlight here in Boston. He's just so uniquely himself. Jalen is, you know, and he's doing all these interviews promoting the shoe. Obviously, the whole reason that he has launched not only his. It's not like, oh, Jaylen Brown is his own shoe. Like, no, Jaylen Brown is his own shoe brand like Jalen. Jalen Brown is. This is. It's taking the. The. As the slogan goes, like, us against the world for him. It's like the whole me against Nike and me against all of that, that. That was talked about in the off season to yet another level. Jason Tatum is dealing with his own, you know, level of celebrity and criticism and everything that exists in his bubble of a superstar, obviously, in. In a very different way than Jalen Brown deals with it. Brown is. Is the. You know, the. The one who is tackling world issues and a lecturer at Harvard and doing all that, you know, name it. Like, wherever this stuff he's. It's. It's just a. These guys, as we've talked about for years, live very, very different lives, have very, very different priorities outside of the shared priority of bringing championships to Boston there on the court, obviously. And I just think there. There aren't a lot of. Maybe it's because we don't cover them on a daily basis. We're not as close to them as we are to this one. But this team, and I don't mean specifically this team, like you could say this about last year's. Team as well. This group is. Is just really unlike a recent NBA title winner in so many different ways. I guess you could, you know, you could say that about.
- [28:49]
Brian Barrett
You know, you.
- [28:49]
Adam Kaufman
Could look at Denver and say, like, you know, well, look at Jokic and what a weird, different kind of dude he is. And he doesn't even seem to want to be there half the time. Doesn't impact his play on the floor. But you could just tell, like, I mean, he made the joke about that, like, didn't want to even stay for the championship parade. Just wanted to, like, get back home to his horses in Serbia and all of that stuff. Like, all of these guys, they have their. Their own thing that. That makes them different. I mean, I. I guess what I'm gearing toward in all of these rambles is that I just. I continue on a daily basis, bear to be just kind of fascinated by what we have in front of us right here in this particular Celtics group that so long as you know your quote unquote Big three of. Of Jason, Jalen and Joe is still around, it's going to continue that way and filter down.
- [29:39]
Brian Barrett
Yeah, I think it's so interesting with Tatum because I just. I don't think at this point he cares anymore about what people say. I was listening to a recent podcast with Drew Hanlon. He was on the Hoop Collective. I've had your handling my show before, too. And he was talking about just the fact that Tatum, like, they went through the usage stuff, and I've referenced this multiple times, like, how good they are. When Tatum's usage rate is north of 30, they basically don't lose. And he talked about the fact that. The fact that he wants to, like, he knows that he needs his teammates to win a championship. And he was referencing the fact that Tatum's like, well, I don't play for, like, the people that are quote, unquote haters. I do it for the people that support me. And then this week, you see the comments that he made. I think I saw it first from Bobby Manning. He. I think he had the video where Tatum talked about he wants to be like LeBron, Steph and KD from, like, this next era. Like, how guys look from his era up to those guys. Like, he wants to be in that spot. So, like, I really don't think, like, the criticism bothers him much anymore. I really don't. And you can tell, like, the way that he plays, like, if you look at Jason Tatum this year compared to last year, not to say, like, you wouldn't Recognize the player. But he is carrying a lot more of the load this year. He is the Celtics point guard. He is. He's leading the Celtics in points, rebounds, and assists. And if you go back to that game the other night, he ran everything to get those mismatches with Embiid. And you go back to, like, Missoula's whole philosophy offensively, where they want to take advantage of the weak link. Tatum is the guy that's searching that out and getting that player involved. I mean, this is how they won a championship last year. Yes, a lot of it has to do with how great they were defensively. But just think about the NBA Finals. They're like, all right, where's the fat guy? Let's go find Luca and go after him. That's what they did over and over again, and we've seen it. And hopefully I don't eat crow, but they'll do this tomorrow against the Knicks. Now, they may not end up winning the game. If I was going to bet, and I probably will bet on it, I will bet that the Celtics will win the game. But they're going to go after Karl Anthony Towns, right, If they play Cleveland. Now, Cleveland, of course, decided to go out there and get a guy like DeAndre Hunter to try to help them defensively. But. And this happens, like, right after the Celtics beat them, they're going to go after Garland because. And we've seen it like the Cavs, the one game they beat the Celtics this year, they gave Garland a ton of praise because of how he held up in some of those switches. They're going to go after those guys. And the reason that it all can't happen on the flip side of that is because it's at him, right? Like, when you're trying to run. Like, when the Mavericks are trying to run this stuff against the Celtics last year in the Finals, Tatum's the guy that then Luka would have to go after. And they're like, okay, like, what's the point? So you're going from Jaylen Brown to Jayson Tatum. So it's just, I feel like almost in a weird way, because he's not, like, super outspoken, super demonstrative on the court.
- [32:28]
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- [33:28]
Brian Barrett
It kind of gets underrated that I know this may be boring to say, but like he is by far the most versatile player in the NBA right now with all the things he can do. He's a great on ball defender. He is an unbelievable off ball defender. He plays point guard and if you need him to dial it up and score, we know he can. I mean when he was what, 22 years old he had 46 in a game six against Milwaukee. He has the record for the most points ever in a game seven. Like the one thing I guess you could knock him for right now is like his shooting isn't consistent all the time, but that's pretty much it. Other than that there's really no weakness. He's one of the best rebounders in the NBA. There's no weaknesses to his game right now.
- [34:09]
Adam Kaufman
One quick break and tell you about our good friends over at Prize Picks.
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Evan Valenti
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- [36:43]
Adam Kaufman
All right, we're back here with Barrett and talking about Jason Tatum and just the. Well, you know that it is he still by. By. By large General, how often do we have this conversation of like, by the. On a national level, even a local level to. To these eyes, what you're watching on a daily basis is Jason Tatum underrated For all that he does bring to this team and how much he, you know, the Celtics go as Tatum goes. All of it. I know you have thoughts to pick up.
- [37:12]
Evan Valenti
Well, it's just interesting that there was a lot of talk this week about the face of the NBA and how it can't be international guy and etc. Etc. And everybody at the seas fantasy and they're like, well, there's disguise. He's pretty good title last year and he's the best player on the team. Like maybe, maybe that guy who's only 26 should be the face league. I don't know. He only has like a really popular selling shoe gold medal winner in the Netflix doc. Starting five is another documentary like I go on and on here. Barrett, I found it very interesting this week that you were talking about some of the stuff he said about want to be the new generations KD LeBron. I found interesting that he picked. He wants to be the next Larry Bird. The greatest Celtic of all time in his opinion. Like I found it interesting that he picked Larry Bird because I, I almost want to say like, you can't count Bill because of all the accomplishments of Bill Russell and what he did is a. A player, a player coach, a civil rights activist. Like all that stuff. Like you can't. There's no way you're gonna ever accomplish that. But by picking Jillian rings, right? But picking Larry Bird, it's a little bit more like obtainable as like a goal. Like, I want to be the next Larry Bird. Is it possible in your opinion that. That Tatum becomes this generation's Larry Bird for the Celtics in terms of he creates a whole bunch of new fans that become Celtics fans for life. He accomplishes maybe not three straight MVPs, but wins one, you know, wins a whole bunch of rings. Is this in the realm of possibility for Tatum or is this something that like because of the. Just the lore and the legend of Larry and who he is, it's just not possible for him to be that good. He's going to be a tier below.
- [38:53]
Brian Barrett
Yeah, I think it'd be tough to do that just because I referenced earlier like the MVPs that Bird won and Tatum's never won. Not that I really care as a Celtics fan, but I think that he's already the best Celtics since Larry Bird. Right? He's already passed Pierce in my mind. Look at all the all NBA first teams and he's about to get another one. Paul Pierce has never been an all NBA first teamer and. Or he was never an all NBA first teamer in his career. Tatum's basically doing it every year for the past. Like, he had one year where he didn't. He's made it like, what, this is going to be his fifth or sixth first team all NBA or a six, all NBA and his fifth first team. I mean, and then you look at the fact that. I think one thing that Celtics fans are starting to appreciate about Tatum is he really. And I know I'm just like gushing over Tatum right now, but he's really not like the current modern day superstar, right? Like, he had that quote a couple of years ago about, hey, if a kid's there in Charlotte, like, I'm gonna play, right? But he, like, he's obviously, he's a better road player than he is a home player. But I look at it, I know some of this is injuries. I was talking about this the other day, like, Joel embiid was the third pick in 2014. He's played 450 games. Tatum was the third pick in 2017. He's played 565 games. Like, that's incredible. He was drafted three years later. I know Embiid missed seasons, but that's kind of the point. Tatum, if you look at playoffs, that include.
- [40:12]
Adam Kaufman
I was going to say, does that include playoffs or is that just playoffs?
- [40:15]
Brian Barrett
So in beans play 59 playoff games, Tatum's played 113. Tatum is 14 and 6 in playoff series. He's 68 and 45. Embiid is 5 and 7 in playoff series, and he's 29 and 30. So I think the thing with Tatum is he's just starting to stack all these things up. And now that he's got sort of the championship under his belt, I feel like a weight has been lifted off his shoulders. Right? And so that's where I think, like, it's different from a lot of, like Jokic is the same way where Jokic shows up and he plays like every single game, but there's not like across the league, you don't see that all the time, where these guys are constantly out there playing each and every game. And Tate, I'm like, if unless he's dealing with something, he's not going to take a game off. Which I think like the older fan, like the older generation of Celtics fans can appreciate that. Right? Because I'm not saying the game is the same, right? Or the game that Larry Bird skill set is the same as Jason Tatum skill set. I mean, the versatility, sure. But the point being is just that that's something that Bird did too, where he showed up every day and he gave it every day or he gave it his all every day. So is Tatum. And I think that reflects, like, with the rest of the team, right? Like, Tatum's going to be out there every game, which I think is awesome. Now, I would like them to scale back some of the guys, like, down the stretch of the season. I do think this is completely off subject, but Drew, like, getting that time off, he looked much better in that game the other night. I thought that was a good sign. But my point with Tatum is just, I do think, like, older fans and younger fans, because as you guys mentioned, like, he's got the shoe. Younger fans can appreciate that, right? Like, he's got a brand, if you will. And then the older fan can appreciate the style of play and the fact that the dude shows up every night. I mean, think about, like, one of his early moments in his career. Like, I'm sure older fans can appreciate the fact that, okay, Kevin Durant won the scoring title, like, what, four consecutive years, And Tatum just ate his launch in a series, like, completely outplayed him and blocked his shot multiple times. For a guy that never gets his shot, but Tatum blocked his jump shot multiple times, right? That's why I was like, whoa. Like, we knew Tatum was extremely skilled, but when he locked up Durant in that series, I'm like, this is. This is different.
- [42:30]
Adam Kaufman
So I actually, I'm thrilled that you brought this up, Ev, because if I were a listener, a viewer of this show, I would be listening to you, listening to Barrett, and simultaneously screaming at whatever device that I am viewing or listening to this program going, guys, there is no way Jason Tatum is ever going to be Larry Bird. But not because he couldn't plausibly, statistically get there. He absolutely could. In fact, in a lot of categories, I, you know, some. He already has. In a lot of categories, I believe he already will. And you know, or that he will, pardon me, like, he'll score more points than Larry Bird, you know, and, you know, provided he there isn't some awful career injury or he's traded tomorrow or whatever. Like, longevity is going to help to sadom to a lot of benchmarks in Celtics history. He may be the all time leading scorer in Celtics history when all is said and done. I'm not saying that makes him the best player, just makes him the all time leading scorer. Again, no one is ever going to be placed above Bill Russell, as I've brought up before, for a litany of reasons. But the thing with Tatum versus Bird, is he ever going to win three straight MVPs? I don't think so. I mean it's, it's. He may never win one the way things are going right now.
- [43:51]
Brian Barrett
Well, yeah, think about it. Kobe only. Kobe only won one mvp. And think about like how Kobe's thought of.
- [43:57]
Adam Kaufman
Yeah, exactly. Now, could he win more rings than Larry? It's possible for sure. If this, you know, the new owner elects to keep this group together and pay into the luxury tax and, and this team goes on to play as it has, you know, throughout much of this year, last year, all that stuff. Like, yeah, I think there are a lot of on court reasons that you can justifiably make a long time, long term. You know, Jason Tatum over Larry Bird. Like you, you could do that. I think you could do that. But where Tatum is never going to touch Bird is and have, you know, hit on this somewhat is the legend of Bird, right? Bird retired, forced to by injury in 1992. I know he didn't completely disappear. Worked for the Pacers for a long time, maybe still does. I don't even know. But obviously was a coach, was a gm like he was still around. He's turned into something of a, a recluse in, in recent years. You know, Barrett said it like, how rare is it today that you see Larry Bird in a new interview? So that's awesome that he's going to be in this documentary obviously. But again, the, like the, the truly. And I know it's the nickname Larry Legend, like the, the true legendary stuff as it relates to Larry Bird. We are more than three decades post Bird's retirement, still hearing former players, whether they played against him or just heard these stories and they're recycling them, telling Larry Bird trash talk stories or story that he did this on the court, he did this on the court. He said he was going to do that. He went and did that. All of these, these stories continued to exist, exist around Larry Bird going on nearly four decades after the man last played competitive basketball. Like that. Maybe some of that was just like that was the 80s and that was a different time. And, and people have carried that forward in basketball. Like we didn't have social media then and everything was viewed in a different prism than it is now. That can work against Tatum. Maybe it shouldn't, but it does. Like people aren't going to be talking about Jason Tatum like with some singular spit. Like remember when Jason Tatum dropped, you know, 51 points in a, you know, game six or game seven. Like those stories aren't really going to be told 30 years post Tatum retiring. Not really. Not on a national level.
- [46:17]
Evan Valenti
You have a new one coming. You have the, the documentary coming out about the, the, the, the guys that beat the Dream Team in that scrimmage. Like this still, like, we're still doing that. Like, we are.
- [46:27]
Adam Kaufman
So, like, Bird is just never like, again, statistically, maybe at some point, and that wouldn't surprise me at all, but in terms of like, just the overall, like, aura that is Larry Bird versus that of Jason Tatum.
- [46:39]
Evan Valenti
And it's.
- [46:40]
Adam Kaufman
This is not Tatum's fault. This is just such a credit to Bird. It's never, he's never going to touch him.
- [46:46]
Brian Barrett
Yeah, I totally agree and that's what I was saying. Like, I especially too, like, with even the accolades, I don't think he can get close to burn. I mean, he, he's Larry the Legend for a reason. And I also think just from like an aesthetic standpoint, Tatum can't get to that point either. Right? Because like, you just go back and watch some of the highlights of Bird, like, he's passing the ball over his head and you talk about some of the stories. Think about the fat Kaufman. Remember when he said, hey, I'm going to play this game lefty because I'm saving my right hand for the Lakers? Like, that's just never going to happen in the modern day NBA, right? Like, a guy's not going to come out and tell people. People that, right? Like, yeah, that legitimately, like, that's. Everybody knows that story, right?
- [47:28]
Adam Kaufman
So, like, that like the Xavier McDaniel, like, Yo, I'm gonna do this, I'm.
- [47:32]
Evan Valenti
Gonna do this, I'm gonna do this.
- [47:34]
Adam Kaufman
Like, you're just. You go ahead, try and stop me. It like diagrams all of it and goes and does it. Like, it's all. It's. It's incredible.
- [47:41]
Brian Barrett
Yeah, but so like just circling back to Tatum, my, my only point with Tatum is just like, I think he can be the most significant Celtic since Larry Bird. Just in terms of. And like, if he gets multiple, it's like, worthy of, hey, this is it all time. And look, it's tough to be an all time Celtic. Great. But you win multiple championships in this version of the NBA with everything going on with the aprons and we'll see. Like, obviously two years from now, maybe a year from now, this roster is going to look different than it does. Obviously it's going to look somewhat different. But, like, how long is Drew going to be here? Right. That's why I think the Peyton Pritchard contract is so important for this team just to have some guys under, under, under club control. But there was going to be another version of the Tatum Celtics, you know what I mean? Like four or five years from now, this Ross like Al Horford is older. Chris stops Porzingis as it pertains to the injury history. So it's just going to be. And yeah, and I think Valenti's point about this and I mean, I guess I'm speaking for you, Valenti, but your point is just like now like kids growing up compared to like people that grew up and even adults that watch the Bird era. Like this could be not similar to Bird, but like your guy for this generation where I do think like. And Kaufman, your point about like nobody's going to be talking about like the 51 point game, the 46 point game. But let's say hypothetically, knock on wood, this happens. The Celtics win the NBA Finals and say they, they beat whoever it is in game six of the Eastern Conference finals. And Tatum has a 30 point triple double, right? I mean we've seen him, he had a triple double the other night or like in the NBA Finals closeout game, he ends up with, you know, a 12 rebound game and he has earlier in the series a 40 point game. So like the difference, like I think obviously Tatum is still sort of writing his legacy where I do think there is room for those type of games where we're talking about this sooner, like when we're talking about those iconic moments that Tatum could have because like what last year, okay, like didn't really have like that signature game. Even though I thought his postseason was underrated for, I still think he should have been the Finals mvp. That's a whole different discussion. But nonetheless, I think he could have some of those moments this year. Right?
- [49:47]
Adam Kaufman
How? Just real quick because you guys just got me thinking about this. How. I don't know. You don't. Like you guys wouldn't know either, just age wise. But the, like, how popular was Bird in his heyday outside of Boston, for instance, like were, were there people. I mean, Indiana, sure, but we're. I don't know. Like, I guess where I'm going with this is.
- [50:13]
Brian Barrett
Very. You're either Bird or Magic.
- [50:15]
Evan Valenti
Yeah, I mean like that's.
- [50:17]
Adam Kaufman
No, but, but yeah, it's true. I guess I. Here, here's the impetus of the question. Especially in today's social media age where like there are a lot of people, like I see it with my kids, like they root for players more so than they root for teams, unfortunately. It's just. It is what it is. Like, you know, my kids have, like, Luca jerseys, Wemby jerseys, you know, Curry jersey shape, but also, like, Celtics jerseys. Do you. How many people do you think. Because he's not a flashy player. He's an elite player, but he's not a flashy player. How many people outside of Boston do you think would say, jason Tatum is my favorite player?
- [50:49]
Evan Valenti
More than you think?
- [50:51]
Adam Kaufman
Yeah.
- [50:52]
Evan Valenti
Yeah, because it's. It's. It's. There's more people, like, you know, your. Your kids that are just only. They only focus on one player. And the YouTube era of highlights makes life so much easier. Like, shout out Timmy, who just cranks those things out after every single game. There's a highlight of at least three guys the night prior. Like, you. It's in. Tatum's an easy guy to look up highlights of, you know, I know. I know he gets a lot of flack, but I do think in, like, younger spaces, that he has a little bit more cachet than we really. Than we realize. And I think, you know, the shoes do all that. He's in, you know, Ruffles commercials and Subway commercials.
- [51:28]
Adam Kaufman
Yeah, that's true.
- [51:29]
Evan Valenti
He's in Netflix shows. Like, he is all over the place.
- [51:31]
Adam Kaufman
Subway and all the. Yeah, everything.
- [51:34]
Evan Valenti
He's everywhere.
- [51:35]
Brian Barrett
Who was. Who was it? Somebody said it all Star Weekend. Like, they want to be like, Tatum. I forget. Was it one of those Castles? Castle. Yeah, Castle. Okay, that was Castle.
- [51:44]
Evan Valenti
So that's why we love Castle. This is a good guy right there. He's got.
- [51:48]
Adam Kaufman
He's got.
- [51:48]
Evan Valenti
If you're twin.
- [51:51]
Brian Barrett
Even though he went to UConn. But I do think there is something to what Kaufman was saying, because, like, remember, like, before everything happened with John Morant, he was more popular than Tatum, even though Tatum was the better player. Like, right now, Lamello Ball is super popular. You know what I mean? Like, it just. It's sort of, like, to your point, like, it's sort of a style thing. Like, Tatum doesn't have, like, flashy guys. Yeah. Like, it's that, like, when Curry took over, I'm like, Curry's, like, bombing threes, right? Like, but, yeah, you know that, like, Tatum just, like, does everything, like, right on the court. It's not as, like, appealing as, like, even, like, ant, right? Like ants. Wicked popular because he has all these, like, crazy dunks and stuff along those lines. So, yeah, I do think there is. And, like, comparing the bird thing, Bird was. Stylistically, not only was he the best player in the league for a significant period of time. He was also like, incredibly flashy too. Right. Like in terms of. Not in terms of crazy dunks, obviously with Larry Bird, but.
- [52:50]
Sponsor Voice
Right.
- [52:50]
Brian Barrett
Insane passes. Right. Especially too, like when they brought in Walton, like, it just. It obviously went to a totally different level in terms of the passing with that team.
- [52:59]
Adam Kaufman
One, one last Tatum thing. Because someone brought this to my attention on Twitter during the week. I wish I could remember who it was, but I was looking at that. While they were looking at basketball reference, I have pulled up Jason Tatum's basketball reference page. So it lists for his nicknames J, Taco J. And then. Have you guys seen this? I'm Scott Hansen, host of NFL Red Zone. Lowe's knows Sundays hit different when you earn them. We've got you covered with outdoor power equipment from Cobalt and everything you need to weatherproof your deck with Trex decking. Plus with lawn care from Scotts and of course, pit boss grills and accessories, you can get a home field advantage all season long. So get to Lowe's, get it done, and earn your Sunday. Lowe's official partner of the NFL. The anomaly.
- [53:51]
Evan Valenti
Yeah, has any.
- [53:52]
Brian Barrett
I think that just got put in this week.
- [53:54]
Adam Kaufman
Has anyone ever heard Jason Tatum referred to as the anomaly? Did I miss this? Is this like a. A weird Celtics Twitter thing?
- [54:01]
Brian Barrett
Did.
- [54:01]
Adam Kaufman
Did. Did somebody. Is this like, like Wikipedia? Somebody just gained control of Tatum's page. Like, who had the. Who added this? The anomaly for Jason Tatum?
- [54:12]
Brian Barrett
I never heard of it.
- [54:13]
Evan Valenti
Honestly, it's really bad. Did.
- [54:14]
Adam Kaufman
Did you say this on a broadcast that I missed it?
- [54:17]
Evan Valenti
No, no, Just go with jt. It works the best. It's clean, it's simple.
- [54:21]
Adam Kaufman
Yeah. Why isn't that there?
- [54:23]
Evan Valenti
Yeah, J.T. should be it. Taco J is just funny because he just. All he did was he hard shell tacos with a shitload of cheese on it for like the first three years of his career. So that stuck for a minute, but it just should be JT and just move on with it. This is ridiculous.
- [54:38]
Adam Kaufman
The anomaly. What are we doing bad?
- [54:41]
Evan Valenti
It's like Tarantula.
- [54:43]
Adam Kaufman
All right, so I kind of.
- [54:44]
Brian Barrett
What was the name that I liked? The Slim Reaper.
- [54:47]
Evan Valenti
He didn't like, but he didn't like it, so it never stuck. But everybody else, dude, right?
- [54:55]
Brian Barrett
He looks miserable.
- [54:56]
Adam Kaufman
Yeah, like what? What else is new? Like Evergreen Statement with Kevin Durant, man. Like, he's that dude. Two years and he just checks out. Two years of the team and he checks out and then he'll. He'll grind through it for Another year or two and then he completely wants out. He'll be somewhere else next year. I don't know where it's going to be, but he'll be somewhere else. Celtics right now are down to what, 26 games left in their regular season. They're 40 and 16, six games behind Cleveland for the top spot in the East. Obviously the top spot Overall in the NBA belongs to the Cavaliers. Just barely. Thunder are at 45 and 10. They're the number one team in the West. Watch out by the way, for the Nuggets. You know, if anyone was sleeping on Denver earlier this year. Nine and one winners of over the last nine winners and nine straight. Hottest team in the league now tied for second in the Western Conference with Memphis, who is going to drop off at some point. I'm convinced of it, but hasn't happened yet. 37 and 19, both those teams. Celtics coming up here have this, you know, an important game on Sunday against the Knicks early game one o' clock Eastern. Then they got this little two game road trip. Toronto, Detroit, then back home, Cleveland, Denver, which are massively important. We were talking about this trip. Who was it with? Do we have Grandy on last week or just before the All Star break? Ev.
- [56:18]
Evan Valenti
We had Keith Smith on.
- [56:20]
Adam Kaufman
Keith Smith, that's right. We were talking about what, what, what to, you know, what, what would satisfy us. What, what, what would make you happy with this, you know, six game swing, including Philadelphia obviously out of the break. And you know, I think we, what did we say, like 4 and 2 would be satisfactory? Basically, Philadelphia, New York, Toronto, Detroit, CLE, Cleveland, Denver, you know, 4 and 2, you'd like, you'd feel good about. Not satisfactory, you'd feel good about. Because you get three legitimately tough teams in there with New York, Cleveland and Denver on the heels of the Philadelphia blowout, which is what it was. I mean that game was a massacre. Barrett, how you feeling about the upcoming stretch here?
- [57:00]
Brian Barrett
I feel pretty good about it. I feel like they picked it up really after that Rockets loss. They've been playing like they were playing at the beginning of the season. So I feel pretty confident in this group and like the whole thing about the seating. I really don't think they care and I personally don't care either. I think they're fine going into Cleveland. I think they're the best road team in the NBA. Obviously like it. I would predict that they keep the two seed. But you mentioned Denver, which I think is interesting. I want to see how they play obviously during the stretch. As long as they keep playing the way they are. I'm fine with it. But the one thing that I said the other day, and it may sound crazy because they're on a historic pace, I much rather, if the Celtics knock on wood, make the finals, I much rather see OKC than Denver because, like, inexperienced.
- [57:46]
Evan Valenti
This is what I mean. We keep coming back to Jokic of just like, that guy is unkillable. And no matter what he does, no matter what the record is, if they're around, you never want to play him. It's crazy to me.
- [57:58]
Brian Barrett
And at last glance, I was looking this up during the All Star break. Like, Jalen Williams, look at all his shooting numbers are down. He's 48 percentile as an IC player, 58th percentile as a pick and roll player. Go look at his postseason. Last year wasn't great from an efficiency standpoint in that Dallas series. So, like, just as the secondary guy, I don't know, like, if he can be that guy next to Shay. And then I think about it from a Denver angle and it's like, oh, well, they lost to Minnesota last year. Okay, well, they lost in Minnesota because first of all, he had to carry the team. Everybody else was gassed. I know Murray had a big Game 7, but as Kaufman mentioned, like, they're playing awesome right now. Murray looks like Murray again. But think about how they beat the Nuggets. They had Carl Anthony Towns, a seven footer, like, the primary defender on him with another seven footer behind him, sagging off other guys on the team, and it still took them seven games and like an epic comeback to beat them in that series. Right? And the Celtics. I feel like nobody can, like, stop Shay right now, but I feel like if you're just looking at the superstars, the Celtics have much better options on Shea, Gilgis, Alexander than they have options for Nikola Jokic. Now you can say, okay, yeah, but OKC's defense is significantly better than Denver. I would totally agree with you on that, but I'm betting on the Celtics offense in that type of a series. Considering what we've seen from the Celtics offense. I just don't want to see Jokic, like, I really would not like to see Jokic in any sort of a series because, I mean, any type of defense, like, he's like a computer and as great as Shay is, like, and he's a great individual scorer and can get to his spots and all that, Jokic just screws with you in a different way because he just breaks down the defense in totally different ways. So that's the one team that I certainly do not want to see in the NBA Finals is the Dev. And I'm not saying, like, okc. Like, that would be a really tough series. Like, there was a potential the Celtics could lose that. I just feel like if you're looking at sort of styles make fights, it's a better fight for the Celtics to get OKC than Denver. And I would still, I guarantee you, like, I would still predict the Celtics to beat Denver. It'd just be like, it'd be really scary to have to face that guy, right?
- [60:04]
Evan Valenti
Totally. I don't want to, but they're gonna. They're my favorite games when they play Denver because you learn a lot about what your team is all about, because Denver, as you said, they just put a lot of pressure on you in a lot of different ways. And it's all Yoko. Truly, guys.
- [60:17]
Brian Barrett
And I wonder, too, like, going to, like, the Denver game, are they gonna put Jokic on Drew? Because last year, what happened in that second matchup is, remember, like, he couldn't get out support Zingis, like, they kept running the same action. Porzingis would pop, and Jokic couldn't get out to him. And it's just. That's so tiresome. That's so exhausting to do that possession after possession for a guy that has to carry the offense on the other end. I'm interested to see, because we've seen it happen this year where teams have put their big on Drew. And does that mean Drew gets. Because remember, at the end of that game, finally, like, Drew started getting the ball hit the corner three at the end, like, what happens there. So I'm fascinated to see, like, what that could look. Obviously, you don't want to throw all your cards in the middle of the table, but I'd like to see, like, how Denver defends them and how the Celtics defend Jokic.
- [61:03]
Adam Kaufman
All right, guys, last thing before we wrap. I just, I have to touch on the disaster that was the NBA's All Star weekend across the board in so many different ways. It started with, you know, like, screw you, LeBron, for, like, pulling out at the last set. I have no issue with guys like Giannis or whoever. Like, you're not, like, you're hurt. You're dealing with something, and you can't participate in the All Star Game. Like, good. Like, I, I, I will golf clap, man, I, I applaud you for that. How, how often in the history of this show or elsewhere have we bitched about, like, you know, Kyrie Irving, he's going to miss regular season time. But there he is at the All Star Game. Like, I'm, I'm all for it if you are dealing with something, playing the game, but to pull the whole like, basically, and I'm exaggerating here, but basically 20 minutes beforehand, like I got some discomfort. I'm not gonna play. When you are the face of the league, face of the sport. Can't even change your effing outfit for the team photo. Continuing to just make every little facet of everything about yourself. And Anthony Edwards goes and does something similar. At least he put on the uniform for his photo, but pulls out last minute for his team as well. These guys who, like, it's good, it's fine that regular season is the priority, not the All Star Game. I'm with that. But like, I don't know, little bit of notice, maybe a day or two and you could have got a couple of snubbed guys there that would have loved, you know, Sabonis or whoever. Guys that would have loved to have been there and participated in this as opposed to just, you know, not that it mattered that your team was left shorthanded or what have you, but, but give other guys an opportunity if you're going to pull this, this stupid crap, you know, at the last minute, as LeBron did. So that was one thing. The, the broad, unfortunately, like the new format kind of worked and it was kind of nice to see guys out there caring, if not for the fact that TNT had to pause every five minutes to fe itself because it's the last year of Turner Broadcasting with the NBA and we need to even pause the championship game for 25 minutes in the middle of it to honor our outgoing broadcasters who are just going to latch on with another network and continue their show anyway. But no, let's. We got all this stuff for them. Kevin Hart, who I actually enjoy. I really like Kevin Hart. I enjoy his stand up, I like his movies. I don't need three hours of Kevin Hart on the NBA All Star broadcast when you could have had a. I mean, you could have easily taken an hour and a half off that broadcast. I know you have like your advertisers and your corporate. Corporate partners and all that stuff. So you can't. But the amount of time and, and somebody out there on Twitter at one point, you know, actually posted a. A time like, you know, this much time spent on the game and then this long a break and then this much on the game and then this long on the Brave and all that stuff. The amount of time wasted during that broadcast was unlike anything I had ever seen, I don't think in NBA All Star Weekend. And that was just the game. The worst, the worst offender of all of it. I'm officially done. I'm done with the dunk contest until today's players actually, you know, like put up or shut up. You know, if we're going to see like John Morant tweeting, maybe I should do it and Giannis quote tweeting, if you do it, I'm in all this crap. Like if you're going to, at least Jaylen Brown, like he wasn't good at it. No one expected him to be good at it. But at least he said, you know what? I'm going to do it. And he did it. He's a popular, he's an all star. He's a star in this league. And he actually went out and participated in the thing as it should be. It should be names. I'm not saying it's got to be Jordan versus Nick or even Gordon versus Levine kind of thing every single year, but you need to have today's players, quality players, guys that you're going to be excited about. The fact that I have to read goddamn articles about who the best dunk participants are ever and ranking them and seeing Mac McClun like top five or Matt McClung should not even be eligible. The guy has played five NBA games in his life. He has not played 70 NBA minutes in his career. They have to literally dust him off for this competition annually where he has made more, I think in winnings than he has even an NBA salary in his time on a two way contract. It's dumb, it's stupid, it's embarrassing. It's not McClung's fault.
- [65:35]
Brian Barrett
It's.
- [65:35]
Adam Kaufman
It's a, it's an indictment of the league and where we are at with this competition to begin with. If you want it, like I'll celebrate McClung as a great dunker and an elite athlete and pretty fly for a white guy and all this crap that we wanted. Great, do it. But like if, if this is how, if we're going to own it, let's just own it and fly in some of the best, you know, and one dunkers, YouTube dunkers, whoever in the world. And let's like they can be the competition. NBA players can sit courtside and, and ooh and ah and get the video cameras out and, and act like they give a crap and all that stuff, but they don't. Nobody does it like for the amount of bitching. Draymond Green and everybody else of today's generation does about all star weekend without failing to recognize they are the ones who have ruined it for all of us who enjoyed it for so long is just beyond me. I just. I like, you guys don't even have to respond to this if you don't want to. I just had to get it off my chest because I'm just so.
- [66:35]
Brian Barrett
Like.
- [66:35]
Adam Kaufman
I used to love. Eff it, man. I used to love allstar weekend. It was. It was so much fun. And the fact that these guys don't give a rat's ass about it and the networks don't treat it with any respect anymore is just. Barrett. It just.
- [66:53]
Brian Barrett
It.
- [66:54]
Adam Kaufman
It annoys me.
- [66:55]
Evan Valenti
Do you feel better?
- [66:56]
Brian Barrett
Yeah.
- [66:57]
Adam Kaufman
There's a lot of fluff margin, marginally. Yeah.
- [67:01]
Evan Valenti
Get the yellow. Go ahead.
- [67:05]
Brian Barrett
Yeah, I'm like, just. I have no expectations for it anymore. So, like, at this point in time, I'm not really offended by it. You know what I mean? I just expect that it's gonna suck. And like, the McClung thing, I agree with you. Like, the dude's an awesome dunker, but it's a carnival, right? Like, he's. He's not an NBA guy. It's just like, you're bringing this and it's not like the third straight year, so I don't know, like, if we had an interesting one, I'll be like, oh, that's awesome. The good thing is, like, this year, Saturday, you had the alternative option of watching USA against Canada, which was fun to watch. And then like the Sunday night thing, that was.
- [67:43]
Adam Kaufman
You had the SNL, you know, 50th anniversary show on the same night. You had that option too.
- [67:48]
Brian Barrett
Yeah, so, like, I'm just. I'm over it at this point. Like, and like the one time where it's like, it was so weird, man. Like having like Steph Curry and Kevin Durant and Jason Tatum playing against like first and second year players. Like, what was that? That was so stupid. It's dumb.
- [68:09]
Evan Valenti
Yeah, that's really bad. I'm not. I don't need to waste my breath on that.
- [68:13]
Adam Kaufman
Yeah. All right, well, I. I had to get that off my chest, but people have probably tuned out by now anyway. You'll be tuning in, however, for Celtics Knicks on Sunday, and that'll be exciting. Hopefully another win for Boston, who has been surging of late. I mean, going back to January 29th, day after my birthday, it's been nothing but winning. With the exception of that embarrassing performance at home against Kyrie Irving and those shorthanded Dallas Mavericks at the time. Other than that book ending, four wins, lost four wins. Let's try and make it five in a row. Our thanks to you out there watching or listening or or both for of course Brian Barrett, host of the off the pike podcast. Make sure you check it out there with the Ringer and the Ringer collection of podcasts getting everyone excited for Celtic City and the HBO Max documentary that is on the way approaching in what week and a half? It's coming, it's coming fast. Looking forward to it obviously, but for Evan, I am Adam. We'll talk to you again next week.
- [69:17]
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- [69:25]
Evan Valenti
Yep.
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Adam Kaufman
Oh come on.
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