Celtics Beat #612: "Can Tatum Catch Larry Bird?" w/ Brian Barrett

Date: February 22, 2025
Host: Adam Kaufman (with Evan Valenti)
Guest: Brian Barrett (The Ringer, Off The Pike Podcast)

Episode Overview

This post-All-Star break edition of Celtics Beat features host Adam Kaufman, regular Evan Valenti, and guest Brian Barrett. The trio dives into the Celtics' current status after the break, reactions to the new HBO Max Celtics documentary, and a nuanced conversation about Jason Tatum’s legacy—specifically, whether he can ever match Larry Bird in Celtics lore. They close the episode by venting frustrations over the current state of NBA All-Star Weekend.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Celtics After the All-Star Break

• Opening Thoughts (03:31)
  • Barrett jokes about feeling "not as good as Peyton Pritchard," who exploded for 28 points post-break, but better than an injured Joel Embiid.
  • He argues Embiid should be shut down for the season, referencing his ineffective, hobbled performances.
  • Pritchard's resurgence reignites his candidacy for Sixth Man of the Year.
  • Adam: Pritchard's recent performance could bring much-needed consistency as the Celtics push towards the playoffs.

2. First Look: HBO Max "Celtic City" Documentary (06:24)

• Barrett describes being at the exclusive premiere of Bill Simmons’ upcoming nine-part Celtics documentary:
  • Focus was on the 1980s—highlighted as a "sweet spot for Celtics fans," revealing previously unknown stories from the 1986 team and the Larry Bird era.
    • “There was a lot of stuff in the 80s that I obviously don’t want to give too much away that I was not aware of...” (06:47, Barrett)
  • Notably, Rick Pitino is featured extensively, marking his first major interview about his Celtics tenure post-departure.
  • Each era is covered, including under-discussed periods like post-Russell, the 90s nadir, and the Big Three (Pierce, Garnett, Allen) renaissance.
  • Interviews span from franchise legends to current key figures (Tatum, Brown, Missoula).
  • Bill Walton’s interviews were included before his passing—he “was not shockingly a star of the episode.” (08:15, Barrett)
  • Barrett is most curious about the Pitino/Chauncey Billups episode: “Rick Pitino hasn’t really done interviews about the Celtics since he left the Celtics...” (08:07, Barrett)

3. Documentary Reception & Coverage (09:03)

• Evan: Observes that, unlike prior Celtics media, this doc seems to offer genuinely new insights and little-known tidbits even to longtime fans.
• Barrett: “Certain dynamics between different players on the team, stuff that I was certainly unaware of... It’s stuff that you’ve never heard of before." (10:02)
• Both hosts highlight the comprehensive scope, spanning Koozie/Russell, the 70s, Bird, Pitino, Big Three, and the modern Tatum-led era.

4. Celtics Franchise Consistency & Rebuilding

• Barrett notes: Aside from the 90s (derailed by tragic losses like Len Bias and Reggie Lewis), the Celtics have been consistently competitive.
  • "They've hit on so many draft picks... Tatum, Brown, even Pierce, who slipped to #10 in the draft" (16:16)
  • The importance of the Pierce pick and the domino effects leading to KG and Ray Allen.
• Kaufman adds color: The luck and judgment involved in drafting and building successful eras (18:57).

5. Tatum vs. Bird: Can JT "Catch" Larry?

• Prompted by Tatum referencing Larry Bird as his ideal Celtics idol, the hosts engage the key debate:
  • Valenti: "Is it possible… that Tatum becomes this generation’s Larry Bird for the Celtics?" (37:11)
  • Barrett:
    • "I think it’d be tough... but he’s already the best Celtic since Larry Bird... He’s already passed Pierce in my mind." (38:52)
    • Tatum’s durability, All-NBA honors, leadership, and work ethic parallel Bird’s “show up every night” ethos.
    • “In some categories, he already has… He may be the all-time leading scorer in Celtics history when all is said and done…” (43:51, Kaufman)
  • Kaufman: Stresses the mythic, cultural status Bird achieved—the “legend” built up over decades through iconic tales and stories. That’s an aura Tatum likely can’t replicate, though statistically he could surpass Bird in several ways.
    • “Bird is just never… like, again, statistically, maybe at some point… but in terms of the overall aura, [Tatum’s] never going to touch him.” (46:26)
  • Barrett: “He’s Larry the Legend for a reason… Tatum can be the most significant Celtic since Larry Bird.” (46:45, 47:41)
  • Discussion of national popularity: Tatum, while not as flashy as other stars, is more widely beloved by young fans than the hosts initially perceived, especially due to modern media saturation (50:16, Valenti/Kaufman).

Notable Quote

• Barrett on Bird's lasting mystique:
  • "Think about the fact…we are more than three decades post Bird’s retirement, still hearing former players, whether they played against him or just heard these stories and they’re recycling them, telling Larry Bird trash talk stories… Those stories continued to exist… That’s what really takes it up to the next level." (43:51)

6. Quick Hits: Celtics Current Trajectory & the Stretch Run

• Boston’s schedule: Next six games include key matchups vs New York, Cleveland, and Denver. (56:18+)
• Barrett: Not worried about playoff seeding; Boston’s road dominance, overall consistency, and improved post-Houston loss play cited as strengths.
• Ev and Barrett: Denver is the one Finals matchup they’d most want to avoid due to Jokic’s unique, essentially unstoppable impact. “I just don’t want to see Jokic...” (57:46, Barrett)

7. NBA All-Star Weekend: Rant & Reactions (61:03)

• Adam Kaufman’s Epic Rant (61:03–66:53):
  • Key Points:
    • Frustration with stars (notably LeBron) bailing last-minute, closing doors on deserving replacements.
    • Slog and bloat of the telecasts, endless self-congratulation, and lack of focus on the game itself.
    • Dunk contest reduced to a “carnival” with Mac McClung (a virtual non-NBA player) as the main draw—declares he's "done" with it unless real stars participate.
  • Quotes:
    • “If we’re going to own it, let's just own it and fly in some of the best YouTube dunkers… and let NBA players just sit courtside and ooh and ah…” (65:34, Adam)
    • “For the amount of bitching…today’s generation does about All-Star Weekend, without failing to recognize they are the ones who have ruined it…” (66:34, Adam)
• Brian Barrett’s Response:
  • “At this point in time, I’m not really offended by it… the McClung thing… it’s a carnival, right?... He’s not an NBA guy.” (67:04)

Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• [06:24] Barrett: “There was a lot of stuff in the 80s that… I was not aware of. Some Celtics fans that were very much glued in… weren’t aware of… Fans are really going to appreciate that.”
• [10:02] Barrett: “Certain dynamics between different players on the team, stuff that I was certainly unaware of… It’s stuff that you’ve never heard of before.”
• [38:52] Barrett: “I think it’d be tough [for Tatum to match Bird]… but he’s already the best Celtic since Larry Bird… He’s already passed Pierce in my mind.”
• [43:51] Kaufman: “Bird is just never… like, again, statistically, maybe at some point… but in terms of the overall aura, [Tatum’s] never going to touch him.”
• [46:45] Barrett: “He’s Larry the Legend for a reason…”
• [50:51] Valenti: “He’s everywhere. [Young] people focus on one player… Tatum’s an easy guy to look up highlights of… I do think in younger spaces he has a little more cachet than we realize.”
• [61:03–66:53] Adam’s All-Star Weekend Rant:
  • “If we’re going to own it, let's just own it and fly in some of the best YouTube dunkers…”
  • “...for the amount of bitching…today’s generation does about All-Star Weekend, without failing to recognize they have ruined it…”

Segment Timestamps (Approximate)

• 00:03–02:00: Sponsorships & Intro
• 02:03–04:31: Post-All-Star break, Embiid injury, Pritchard’s resurgence
• 04:31–11:49: Celtic City documentary premiere—80s focus, new insights, structure
• 12:19–16:35: Organization’s storied consistency, impact of 90s era, rebuilding with Pierce, Big Three formation
• 16:35–21:47: Draft history, what-ifs, transition to new eras, how the Celtics built the '08 team
• 21:47–28:48: Bird’s legendary status, Tatum’s journey, differences in legacy formation
• 29:38–37:11: Tatum’s game, personality, underrated-ness, and media perceptions
• 37:11–49:47: Bird-vs-Tatum discussion, defining “greatness” and “legend,” generational impact
• 49:47–53:50: Bird’s nationwide fame, Tatum’s current popularity
• 56:18–61:03: Celtics’ current season outlook, next six games, best/worst playoff matchups
• 61:03–68:13: All-Star Weekend rant, league/media/player criticism, the dunk contest’s decline

Episode Takeaways

• Celtics fans should be excited for the upcoming HBO Max documentary, as it promises new revelations even for diehards.
• Jason Tatum has already established himself as the best Celtic since Bird, but matching Bird’s “legend factor” is likely impossible, though statistical arguments may one day be made.
• The state of NBA All-Star Weekend is widely derided; fans, media, and even players recognize it has lost seriousness and entertainment value, particularly the dunk contest.
• The Celtics are set up for another deep playoff run, powered by Tatum’s all-around brilliance and backed by strong supporting play—though Denver remains the scariest potential Finals opponent.

For Listeners

If you’re looking to catch just the big moments:

• 06:24–11:49: Barrett’s docuseries breakdown—new info & why it’s different
• 38:52–47:41: Bird vs. Tatum: the real legacy stakes
• 61:03–66:53: Adam’s All-Star Weekend catharsis

Celtics Beat continues to offer informed, entertaining, and at times cathartic Celtics talk for fans craving analysis and historical perspective.