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- [00:01]
State Farm/Amazon Prime Ad
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- [00:57]
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- [01:26]
Adam Kaufman
Today is Saturday, March 1, and this is Celtics beat on the CLNS Media Network, leading online provider of audio video coverage of the Boston Celtics. I'm adam Kaufman. Episode 613 features Barstool Sports.
- [01:39]
Dan Greenberg
Dan Greenberg and I'm Evan Valenti. And today's show is powered by Prize Picks. Prize Picks is the official daily fantasy partner of CLNS Media. Download the Prize Picks app today you can and use that code CLNS to get $50 instantly when you play $5.
- [02:05]
Adam Kaufman
Hey everybody, welcome to Celtic Fe. Welcome to March, March, March. Oh, if you're a basketball fan, I know it's not as significant being an NBA fan if you only pay attention to the association. You're like guy, chill out. Like April. Let's get excited about April. May, June. I know, but March, it just, oh, I love it. The madness is right around the corner. Conference tournaments at the college ranks. Of course we get ourselves all the way through the, you know, field the 68 as it were, and get ourselves a college champ. And then right out of that it's like boom, playoffs around the corner in the NBA. So March is just such a wonderful time for basketball fans in general. It's always a wonderful time when Dan Greenberg joins us from Barstool Sports as well. Evan Valenti is here. I am Adam Kaufman. Fellas. Hi. How we doing?
- [02:52]
Evan Valenti
Good. Good. I thought you were saying it's. It's good that it's March because it's officially my birthday month, so I thought y' all were just about to, like, celebrate me, and I was down for that. But March Madness is equally as awesome, so.
- [03:03]
Adam Kaufman
Well, we'll celebrate you. And I. I thought that you were going to. This is one of those, like the. The Ben Stiller and dodgeball. I know. I think what you think.
- [03:10]
Dan Greenberg
I think.
- [03:10]
Adam Kaufman
I thought that you were going to say that. I thought you were going to say, oh, it's March, and that means it's Celtic City month. Monday, we have the first of nine Celtic City episodes streaming on Max. And if anyone has not seen Chad Finn's article about the docu series, as we call it now, because it's nine episodes, not one, the docu series streaming on Match every Monday starting this coming Monday, March 3rd, he wrote about it for Boston Globe, Boston.com and or Boston Globe globe.com is. It goes by now. It's. It seems like it's just the most revolutionary bit of Celtics content that has ever been produced and that Bill Simmons has, you know, finally achieved something in his life by putting this together. That, like, the zenith accomplishment for Bill Simmons was Celtic City. So I am looking forward to it, as I know we all are. And we had Brian Barrett from the Ringer, Bill's, you know, employee on with us last week. He went to the screen screening, saw the 80s episode, and it just sounds like this is gonna be a really fun watch and all of that. Look, we. We got to get into a bunch of stuff a little less Celtic City. We did plenty of that last week, and, you know, the common denominator here today. So three of us have not seen any of it. So we're waiting just like you, the viewer or listener. But, Greenie, I. I first need to tell you just sort of the origin of you coming on here today. So I don't know. I've probably said something like this before when you've been on. So I. I guess, forgive me if I have or if anyone out there watching or listening has heard this little spiel that I'm repeating myself, but I. I do feel the need to make it every once in a while, which is not. It's going to sound like initially a backhanded compliment to you, but it's actually. It's actually praising you. That's. That's the reality of what's happening.
- [04:57]
Evan Valenti
What a setup.
- [04:58]
Dan Greenberg
I know, right?
- [04:59]
Adam Kaufman
So, as typically happens week to week.
- [05:03]
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- [05:21]
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- [05:55]
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- [06:04]
NFL Sunday Ticket Ad
And.
- [06:04]
Adam Kaufman
We'Ll reach out to me, hey, when should we do the show? Knowing it's usually like Thursday, Friday, Saturday, that range. I'll respond, you know, with, you know, when, when we'd like to do it, you know, hey, who do you think we should have on? And he'll say, yeah, how about this person? This person? Haven't had this person in a while. And, you know, I'll, I'll think if there's someone we haven't had on in like three months or whatever, I'll, I'll. I'll think of them first. And then Ev will say, well, also, like, don't, you know, there. There's Greenie. And I. And I will always respond. I. I think every time. Ev. I will always respond with, wasn't he just on? Like, like, we love.
- [06:43]
Dan Greenberg
True. Every time I recommend you, it's like, wasn't he just on? Wasn't he just on? It's like, dude, check the scoreboard. No.
- [06:49]
Evan Valenti
And I'm trying to think when the last. It had to have been right in the middle of their slump, right, like.
- [06:54]
Adam Kaufman
In the middle of January. So I'll say, I'll say, wasn't he just on? And evil inevitably say, like, it' six weeks or something like that. And I had to kind of think about this, like, why do I feel like Greenies on, like, every week of.
- [07:05]
Evan Valenti
The show and you see 10,000 tweets a day or something like that?
- [07:11]
Adam Kaufman
Yes, but more than that, here's what it is. Not only do I see 10,000 tweets a day, I see all 10,000. Because you are one of very few people that I have Twitter notifications.
- [07:22]
Evan Valenti
You can't do that, man. Even I have to tell you, you can't. You can't have that. I'm destroying your battery life with notifications.
- [07:30]
Dan Greenberg
I would, but I want to. Hold on. Do I have notifications on or no?
- [07:35]
Adam Kaufman
Do I have them for you, or do you have them for Greenie?
- [07:37]
Dan Greenberg
Do you have them for me? No, I don't.
- [07:41]
Adam Kaufman
But here, here's, here's why. Here's why I have them on for Greenie. And, and Greenie might be, like, there are a few, like, you know, like, Shams Himmelsbach, like, used to be woj, like, couple, like, media people that, that, you know, might break news that. Or Schefter Rapaport, people like that that I'll have notifications on for. You're the only, you know, fan, if you will, that I have notifications on for. And the reason for that, I think, anyway, is because even though, yeah, like, it is a freaking emotional roller coaster of a ride, you know, reading your tweets during games, I'm not always in real time in front of my TV watching games. And I'm not one of those people that, you know, I'm gonna record it and avoid everything and go like, no, I want to know what's happening. And you give me the, you know, the, the pulse of the fan during games. So if I'm out at, like, a kids, you know, like my kids soccer game or something like that, I, I want to know the Celtics are pissing away a 25 to 3 lead. You know, I, I, and, and how it's happening and whether, you know, whether we're getting the, the CTE Celtics or Missoula ball at its finest, I want to know this. But, But I think that's. I feel like I talk to you every day because of the tweets, and so it feels like you're on every week.
- [09:03]
Evan Valenti
Well, I would say it's probably way more likely that someone were to mute my feed than to sign up for my notifications. And it's a double edged sword, right? Like, right now I'm being dragged by probably the entire city of Cleveland because I sent out a Screenshot of the 25 to 3 lead. But when you live tweet, it's part of the content game. You just have to take it on the chin. Like, you know, I've been doing it for so long, it doesn't bother me. Maybe like it did like 10 years ago, but I mean, you can always just like click on my profile. You don't need to look on your phone and see like 50 missed tweets in the span. That's crazy. I don't even know if I would subscribe to my own feed because I just, you know, I tweet my feelings as they're happening.
- [09:50]
Adam Kaufman
You do?
- [09:50]
Evan Valenti
In real time.
- [09:51]
Adam Kaufman
So, no, you are an emotional tweeter. Much like there's some people out there eat their feelings. They're emotional eaters. You are an emotional tweeter.
- [09:58]
Evan Valenti
Definitely. I'm locked in, in my office and I just like, I need to get it out. And I think it's because I started doing it when, you know, I, like, didn't have an online presence. So it's like nobody was reading the tweets and it was just me going off and I've just never been able to. It now feels weird when I'm like at a game and I'm not doing it. It's like I have like that separation crutch. It's, it's not a good habit. But at the same time, people say like, oh, I need it for the, you know, I couldn't watch today and you kept me in it, so I'm gonna keep doing it. Which is why I think most people just mute it and check in when, when they want to.
- [10:38]
Adam Kaufman
Well, and I don't, I'm, I'm assuming it's just you being you and it's not like any sort of a mandate, but for me, you know, it's, it's like, it's. It's also kind of a barstool thing with at least with Boston teams. Like, it's you with the Celtics. It's Carrabbas with the Red Sox. I don't, I don't have Twitter notifications on for him, but like, he does the exact same thing with Red Sox games. He's just like you said, locked into the office. Maybe he's watching with a bunch of the people he does section 10 with or whatever, but he's tweeting like crazy and react, you know, not necessarily Reacting to every little thing. Because you can't do that in baseball the way you can in basketball. You know, runs or plays or turnovers or miss free throws or whatever. But yeah, it's just. Anyway, our listeners are probably bored with this conversation already, but I wanted to bring this up as, as to kind of full circle the why you year today. Now let's get into the emotional roller coaster that was this Celtics Cavaliers game. So they had won 10 out of 11 and now have dropped the last two to the Detroit Pistons, who are one of, if not the hottest team in the NBA right now. I put, you know, them and the Nuggets are kind of right there. And then this Cavaliers team, who, to be fair, like toward the end of this game, because I was watching, like toward the end of this game, I'm getting all riled up and thinking about today's show and how pissed am I gonna be? And. And then I just sort of take a deep breath and realize, all right, there's no Brown Holiday, there's no poor Zingus. So they're down two of their top six guys. Put them in whatever order you want. Obviously, Cavs are at full strength and that's not excuse making. Boston was up 25 to 3. To me, like, the NBA is a game of runs. You know, I'm not saying you should be up 20 in the first quarter and lose the game. Like, no, that of course shouldn't happen. But the real collapse, if you will, comes when you're up like 17 points or whatever it was in the third quarter. That's, that's the much larger issue than blowing a first quarter lead. We see these leads in the NBA blown all the time. We saw Oklahoma City blow a 24 point lead against the Timberwolves and lose in overtime. Like that is inexcusable. But if I'm looking at this game, to me it is. And I think I'm being level headed when I say this. It's much more of a, you know, clearly it was a collapse by Boston. It's certainly disappointing, but it's not this horrific loss. In the same way that it's a great win for the Cavaliers and, you know, not folding, asserting themselves, proving once and for all to any doubters who may have remained that yes, they do belong, that, you know, it's. It's Boston and Cleveland. That's the conversation. At least that's where the conversation starts in the Eastern Conference. And then view the Knicks how you will, or the Bucks how you will, that type of thing. Pistons, I Suppose even though to me they're still just a, you know, barely even a good team. I mean, they were below.500 before that winning streak started, so I still don't think they're this great team. They're just hot right now in the second half of the season. But this Celtics game and team in general, it's just. It really wasn't an indictment of anything as it relates to Boston. Cleveland still the team that in the long term, has to prove it. Boston already has. The Celtics don't care about getting the top seed in the East. They're second and a half back. They're not going to get it. It doesn't matter. And I'm fine with all of that. It's more the hats off Bravo Cavaliers. You know, for anyone that was skeptical, and I'll include myself in that you're for real. We'll take you seriously come the postseason.
- [14:13]
Evan Valenti
Yeah, I'm with you. I. I think, you know, especially because, you know, the 25 to 3, when you see it on the scoreboard, it looks so, like, daunting, right? But it also came, what, in the first, like, three or four minutes? So you knew eventually Cleveland was not going to miss every shot. Like, there was going to be water finding its level on both sides. So the fact that they cut that down to 12 or 10 is like every team in the NBA goes on runs. The more inexcusable one is, like you said, up 17 with around seven and a half to go in the third quarter. You know, you were up 10 points with a minute and a half, two minutes left in the third quarter. Those are the collapses and the. The issues that I think are more concerning. And then you were out executed in the last five minutes of the game, like, with your starters on the floor and their starters on the floor, they made more plays than you did. They were better on the offensive glass late. Donovan Mitchell made all of his clutch baskets. You had a couple misses at the rim. Like, you can give that team credit and say, you came in, you earned that win. Like, you said, Kudos to you. But I do think it's a nice reminder that, like, you know, for any of these people that have been sort of unwilling to give credit to the Cavs all year or say their season is fugazi or it's not sustainable. Like, they're replicating the 2023, 2024 Celtic season, right? Like, we're 60 games in, they're playing at a plus 11 net rate. Like, this is who they are. And if you're just Saying, oh well, you know, they're going to fold early in the playoffs. To me, that's just a certain level of cope that like you just don't want to give another team credit for sustained excellence. What makes it interesting though is when you think of this matchup in a playoff series, both sides have shown you do not have a way to stop our best weapons. The Cavs cannot stop your two best players, and the Celtics with Jew Holiday, without Jew Holiday, with Derrick White, without Derrick White, cannot slow down Donovan Mitchell. So for me, it's one of those, like that's what's going to make a series so interesting is if neither of you can stop the best options, who can create that problem more over the span of a 7 game series is going to be who wins it. Because the shooting regression is not going to happen the same way it didn't happen for you last year. Right? Like their defense is good, they have good health, they have good depth. Like they are a worthy opponent and a worthy challenger. It's just going to come down to who can overcome their, their flaws in the seven, you know, four times out of seven.
- [16:56]
Dan Greenberg
Yeah, this is going to be an interesting back and forth chess match, I believe. Just because what Kenny Atkinson has done to that team from an offensive standpoint, they, they, they remind me a lot of Indiana last year where Indiana's offense was just like unbelievably good. But the thing that they also have is they're also good at defense. Like Indiana, they were fun to watch offensively, were a pain in the ass to stop. Like Nemharden was unbelievable in the postseason last year and got whatever shot he wanted and just went nuclear for four games. But defensively, you never had to really worry about working too hard to get your shot. This Cleveland team defends as well and that's what really makes them kind of special, is they have two big guys that really can kind of control the paint. And when they're really humming, right, they have a bunch of wing guys. Not really any. Like, Coral's a good defender, Hunter's a good defender. Obviously not slowing down Jason and, and Jalen who combined for 80 points last season night. But they, they have guys and then their two guards are just ridiculous. I mean, you look at last night, the fourth quarter shot making was like annoying, like annoying. It was like, okay, they got a, they got a little bit into it, they got a couple of easy ones and then all of a sudden it didn't matter what you wanted to do in the fourth quarter. Garland and Mitchell Were just unbelievable. So you look at everything and say, like, okay, from a schematic standpoint, there's. You can't take. It's going to take 48 minutes to be either team. Like, you can't just take, like, any time off. And what's really interesting to me is Donovan Mitchell has now turned into the greatest player against the Celtics in the history of all time. Like Chris Middleton.
- [18:33]
Adam Kaufman
Real quick, can I give you these numbers? Underdog tweeted this out last night. Donovan Mitchell against the Celtics this season. 35 points, 8 rebounds, 35.7 rebounds, 31 points, 10 rebounds, 6 assists. And in the most recent matchup, 41 points, 5 assists against the Celtics. Because anytime I bet on Donovan Mitchell, he sucks. So clearly I. I need to put whatever hex I've got with Mitchell on these games because dude is like. Like, Greeny alluded to and like, you're talking about have the. The Celtics have a Mitchell problem.
- [19:14]
Evan Valenti
The question was last night, though. It's. Yeah, I don't think he scored under 30 in his, like, 10 career games. He. He has the highest scoring average against the Celtics in history. He, like, I think he just passed Michael Jordan. So it's like, it's not just this version of Donovan Mitchell. It's literally every single time he's played the Celtics, he's had at least 30, which is crazy.
- [19:35]
Dan Greenberg
So that's my question, like, outside of Jokic, because I think everybody would just say Jokic is his own category. Is Donovan Mitchell the scariest player of anybody in the league that Boston can play in the playoffs? Because I think, like, Giannis Steph Curry.
- [19:51]
Evan Valenti
Because I've seen Steph Curry rip out my heart for a title. So it's like, you know, he's just especially a re. Energized Steph Curry like we're seeing right now. It's still. But it's very similar. Like when in that fourth quarter, you have the same, like, pit in the. You know, in your stomach when Mitchell has the ball as you do Steph Curry in those moments, like, every single time the Celtics made a big shot in that fourth quarter to get separation, Mitchell came right back down, Hit a big three to get him close, hit a big floater. Like, there's just. He is the one type of player that he knows how to elevate his game for the moment. And I think it's like the only other guard I can think of that does that is like Steph Curry.
- [20:38]
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- [20:54]
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- [20:56]
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- [21:10]
Adam Kaufman
I think you guys might be sleeping on Shea a little bit if were to happen to see the Thunder. But that, but, but that's just because there's less of that first hand experience with him being in the Western Conference.
- [21:21]
Dan Greenberg
That's true. I think about this problem. It's like what do you, do you know what, what, you know, do you throw Tatum on them to try and just to throw him off a little bit? I mean, Kenny Atkinson had a lot of really nice things to say about Tatum after the game last third Friday night. So that, that's, that's neat. But like I, I just don't know. They traded Springer away and I'm not like trying to say Jaden Springer was going to be the, the, the saving grace of the Celtic season against the Cavaliers. I'm not saying that at all. But like they just don't have a guy quick enough to hang with him. And I just don't know if it's more length, if it's double teams, if it's whatever they have to do to try and slow him down. They just haven't had an answer for it ever. And is the question, who cares? Do we just let up on Garland? Do, do they. I mean, I, I just. As you look forward and try and project this series out because look, it looks like it's going to be these two teams in the Eastern Conference finals. Like the Knicks are hilarious. I, I just, I don't sweat them at all. Orlando can't shoot anymore, unfortunately. The Pistons are fun for sure. No question. I don't think Boston took them super seriously the other night. But that's all right. It just looks like these two teams are gonna, it's destiny. They're gonna play each other in the, in the Eastern Conference finals. Yeah, I just, they have a serious Donovan Mitchell problem. The question is, do you just ignore him and try and lock everybody else down or do you try and scheme up something special for him in the playoffs? Because you're gonna have time on your side and you're gonna have ways to scheme it up in between games.
- [22:49]
Evan Valenti
I think that's how you have to do it because you have to remember, like even if you initially throw a quicker guard on him or someone with length like Jalen, they approach him in a very similar fashion offensively as the Celtics do with Tatum or Brown, where they're just going to give you a high ball screen into a mismatch and you're going to have to guard on an island, right? Like it's the same thing as okay, if the Celtics switch high ball screen to get Tatum on Garland or Tatum on a smaller player, they do the same thing to get Mitchell to against a slow footed defender like Hauser or you know, you know, a slow Pritcher, whatever it might be. So there really is no, like, what can we do to take this away? I think you just have to go with the old LeBron approach of you're going to get your 30, 35, but we're going to shut off the water, you know, with everybody else.
- [23:43]
Adam Kaufman
Let's take a quick break, tell you about our good friends over at Prize Picks.
- [23:47]
Dan Greenberg
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- [26:33]
Adam Kaufman
We're back here with Greeny talking about the SEAS and do they have a Cavs problem? Obviously this is now four matchups that these teams have played here in the regular season. As EV was talking about. It does certainly feel like a playoff meeting, a best of seven. It has some inevitability to it. It would be a fun as hell series, there's no doubt about it. But you guys are spending so much time here so far, understandably talking about Mitchell mixing in Garland for maybe I shouldn't because the history doesn't really support it statistically. But I think about their bigs, you know, I think about Mobley and Allen vs. Porzingis if healthy and Horford if available. You know. But the thing is like while we can look at last night, like super tame night for Allen, like I said, statistically, it's not always there. 10 points, four rebounds. Mobley was better in not even 30 minutes. 17 and 12. But again, Celtics were down. Porzingis, you look back over the last handful of meetings, Mobley's got a 7 and 5 in there, 4 and 6 in there. So I mean there's only one that he kind of blew up with, 22 and 11. Allen had the 21 and 12 earlier. This actually was last March. But beyond there's a 4 and 6 and 8 and 10. So I, I guess I just where I'M going with this. Is. Is this not really a thing? Am I trying to make this a thing when reality like it, it really is just Mitchell. Like the Celtics don't particularly have an issue with anybody else on that roster, you know, other than sort of isolated games.
- [28:10]
Evan Valenti
I don't know if I would say it's just Mitchell. I think their bench was great. And ultimately the difference maker in this win. They're, they're shooting collectively as a team is legit. And I think what we've seen in this matchup is I don't think Kenny Atkinson has finished a fourth quarter with Jared Allen on the floor. So they kind of have found a way to play him off in mat in the high leverage situations. But the issue is if he's not scoring. I mean, Evan Mobley dominated that fourth quarter through his offensive rebounds and second chance opportunities. So those are the areas where when it gets tight and you have these close games, they don't like, yeah, he had that one catch and shoot open three. But primarily it's the, the guard show with the bigs, you know, defending and hitting the offensive class. And that ultimately was the difference. So even though his numbers weren't huge last night, his impact in the highest, you know, most important part of the game, he outplayed every Celtic big on the floor. And that's just, you know, that's just a fact. He, I think he had like four straight offensive rebounds in a stretch in that fourth quarter. And that you just can't, you cannot do against elite teams because they're going to eventually score. So in a series. I think he was pretty good last year. Right. Like he was good in that, in a couple of their win, in their one win and then was even good in game five that they lost. So he's sort of their, like, like their Derrick White X factor. Like when, when Mobley is really, really good, it takes them to, you know, an almost never going to lose level. When he struggles, he's now developed where he can still find a way to make a winning impact. But it's not like a situation where I feel like they need to like scheme for Evan Mobley. Like they I think will live if Evan Mobley is going to be making three, four threes in a game. They just have to box out better in clutch situations.
- [30:07]
Dan Greenberg
Yeah. And for, for me it's, it's just completing defensive possessions. Like sometimes last night they got I think caught just not fully like, like fully getting up on some shooters. Like there are certain times where like Sam Merrill is just Walking into stuff, and it's like, you can't let that guy. I know he looks like he's not like a super awesome. Like, he's small, diminutive, he's not like a huge guy, but he's got great range and hit a bunch of great shots. I feel like sometimes that Boston lets the Cavs get a couple easy ones, and like, some of those guys, all they need is one, and then all of a sudden, they're on fire. Like it should be.
- [30:43]
Adam Kaufman
Are you describing.
- [30:44]
Dan Greenberg
They should look at. Yeah, basically, right. They. They. The Cavs shoot the hell out of it, man. They really do. And I thought it's. I thought at some point. Yeah, it has been over the year. You have to. You just. It's not a fluke anymore.
- [30:58]
Evan Valenti
It's just not.
- [30:59]
Dan Greenberg
They're just red hot for an entire season. They're. I just feel like Boston lets them get into a couple easy ones to get back in the rhythm, and all of a sudden, the Cavs just can. Can just take over a game with how. How well they can shoot it. But, like, finishing off possessions at the end of games are. Is a killer. And this is a Celtic thing that's happened to them in the past where they're not super strong on the glass, especially when they're smaller, you know, with not. No Porzingis and. And you're not getting a ton of. From Cornett, you're not getting a ton from Al Horford in terms of, like, an overall impactful game. And, you know, Tatum and Brown can do what they can as. As rebounding wings, but, like, when you get punished like that and you give this awesome team that's good at shooting and more opportunities, you're just gonna. You're gonna get burnt that way. So if you're Boston, you know, I know we've done a lot of critical things about, you know, Boston and do this, and they do this. You still have to feel pretty good knowing that the two losses you have against the Cavs this year, you weren't at full strength.
- [31:55]
Evan Valenti
Right.
- [31:56]
Dan Greenberg
And good.
- [31:57]
Evan Valenti
Yeah. And the two areas that killed you, perimeter defense and defensive rebounding, are pretty much what Drew Holiday and Poor Thing just bring to the table. But I think these games, all four games, really, really just tell you how important the margins are. If you look at how this team, these two teams stacked up last night, the key difference was, you know, in the fourth quarter, they allowed seven offensive rebounds. In the second half, it was 11. In the game, it was 14 turnovers, they had three more turnovers. For 15 points, the shot margin was like 95 to 89. And the Cavs made two more baskets. So it's like those extra possessions of rebounds and turnovers where you're not even getting a shot up on the rim to maybe get an offensive rebound yourself. It's only three or four, but that is the difference in what this game came down to. They made two or three more free throws and two more baskets, and that's it. And a lot of those came off turnovers and offensive rebounds. And in a playoff game, those are the, I call it the three pillars of death of every Celtics playoff loss you'll ever find. Poor late game offensive rebounding, poor outside shooting. So we didn't get that last night. I mean, they shot the hell out of the ball. But points off turnovers, if this team has 14, 15 turnovers a game and they're allowing easy transition baskets, you know, anywhere between 15 to 20 points off turnovers, those are the things that kill your margin for error. And I think against a team like Cleveland who can shoot just. I mean, they were 17 of 39, just like you were from three. So they have a style and a talent to match Missoula ball. Which then means how you perform around the margins is going to dictate these games. They were better on the margins last night. The Celtics were better on the margins in the game in Cleveland. They won in the beginning of February. Like when you have two good teams battling like that, it's one or two possessions that can swing the whole thing.
- [34:04]
Adam Kaufman
Well, I generally agree with all of that. Here's the pushback, devil's advocate question that I have about the whole thing. We have all been saying for so long, not in an arrogant way, just in a, hey, look at how effing good this team is way, and the historical performance last year and what they're capable of at full strength. We just keep saying if healthy, always the caveat. Obviously, if healthy, I don't see who is beating this Celtics team in a seven game series four times. That said, do you have enough respect for the Cavs to believe that, again, if the Celtics have all their guys, which they haven't in every meeting here in the regular season, as you just talked about. But if they have all their guys in a seven game series in, you know, late May, early June, whatever it is, that Cleveland can shoot the, you know, shoot the lights out that consistently in four games and outshoot Boston in that way? Because normally, you know, the. Our belief is like, if Boston's going to lose a Seven game series. It's less about the other team, whoever it is, and it's more because, you know, Boston had two clunkers where it shot 20% from three and that played into it.
- [35:27]
Evan Valenti
I mean, I think even at full strength, if you're bad around the margins, a team like Cleveland at full strength can beat you four out of seven. I think what, what you're feeling is when they are full strength, more often than not they handle the margins, right? Like they're number one in lowest turnovers a game. They, with Porzingis on the floor, are, you know, above average to elite defensive rebounding team. But we've also seen them at full strength be careless with the ball, have cold streaks offensively. So it's like when they play to their standard, I'm with you, full strength, nobody, nobody's going to beat them four out of seven times. But part of that equation is the assumption that at full strength they're not going to play like. And they're going to handle their business around the margins because, I'm sorry, I just, I just think it's naive and a decent amount of cope to just think, oh, we're going to get into the playoff series and the Cavs are going to play the exact opposite of how they've played for night. Like, think of how we would feel if someone said that about the Celtics last year. We'd be like, what are you talking about? Look at the sample size. Look at the, you know, the consistency up and down the roster. I don't think, like, just because there's another team that's doing it. I don't think you can now thumb your nose up and be like, oh, well, if we had. But that's what makes the matchup so fun because they've won both the games when they were at full strength and they've lost both the games where they were down two starters. So your brain would tell you, at full strength, this is a, you know, a no problem matchup. But I would just say that they played better in the games that they won. When it came down to the details.
- [37:09]
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- [37:36]
Dan Greenberg
Yeah, and it's not like a. Things are. Get a lot easier here because they have Denver coming up Sunday and for us it's tomorrow, you know, recording on a Saturday here. So it's not like, you know, they get some time off to relax and. No, no. To get maybe. We talked about Detroit being the hottest team. Here comes Denver, the other hottest team the league coming in 13, I think. Yeah. And Yokich, just like another triple double last night. Friday night is just on an all time heater right now. Probably gonna win MVP again like three and four years. It probably should have been four straight because that embiid one is fraudulent. But my goodness, like, what's that?
- [38:14]
Adam Kaufman
I think it's still Shea. I think he's still mvp.
- [38:17]
Dan Greenberg
I don't think so.
- [38:18]
Evan Valenti
Oh, man.
- [38:19]
Dan Greenberg
I. I think what Yoke is doing right now is legitimately mind blowing. And it's not like they're. They're what, second place in the Western Conference right now. So it's not like, it's not like they're not winning games too. Like, I just. Of course, what this guy does.
- [38:32]
Adam Kaufman
I'm curious what the sportsbook odds are on that, but keep going.
- [38:35]
Dan Greenberg
I don't think Shay's the leader in the clubhouse, but if I had, I might log off this podcast and immediately throw some on.
- [38:43]
Adam Kaufman
Shay is right now the overwhelming favorite to win.
- [38:47]
Dan Greenberg
What's the number on yoko?
- [38:49]
Adam Kaufman
Shay is minus 550 and Joker is plus 340.
- [38:53]
Evan Valenti
I just think that's so crazy.
- [38:55]
Dan Greenberg
Crazy.
- [38:55]
Evan Valenti
I think that's the narrative push because statistically we're witnessing one of the greatest seasons in legitimate.
- [39:01]
Adam Kaufman
But don't we, don't we feel like we say that about Jokic every year? Like, here's.
- [39:04]
Evan Valenti
Yeah, so you should win mvp.
- [39:07]
Adam Kaufman
Here's the thing, I think, and, and like, we don't have to do a whole conversation about this because I don't want to derail the conversation about Denver and even Portland, who has won four in a row. It's not a good team. But they're, they're clicking right now. I. Joker is without question the best player in the world. That's not what I'm saying. But I do think Shea wins mvp. Whether that's narrative push, whether it's, you know, top seed recognition, whether it's, you know, voter fatigue, like, call it whatever you want. I, I think these two things can exist at the same time. Where Shay wins the award, even though he's not consensus viewed the best player in the world. You know, I just think that's the react. Like, what Joker's. Joker is a top 10 all time player. He is insane. But I feel this is one of those, like, you know, couldn't you have given Clemens the Cy Young every year, bonds the MVP every year? Jordan, LeBron, like, like you, we can do this. Like, we, like, Shohei could be the MVP every single year because what he does is so absurd. Same thing is true of Jokic. But I think this stuff gets mixed up. I think it gets, you know, divvied.
- [40:21]
Dan Greenberg
Out a little bit.
- [40:21]
Adam Kaufman
Right or wrong.
- [40:23]
Evan Valenti
I would just tell you though, for me it comes down to when Jokic is off the floor. The Nuggets are legitimately the worst team in the league across the board. Scoring, defense, shooting, passing, like, net rating. Like they have a, like, I think their net rating with him off the floor is like the 20. It would be like the 28th or 29th. Best net rating in the league. Shea off the floor. The Thunder are still like a plus three. So it's like they're still going to be a competitive team. Like nobody, nobody owns more responsibility for their team success than Nicola Jokic. And he's doing it with the most efficient season ever. He's like, you know, top two or three in scoring. He's shooting nearly 50% from three as a center. He's averaging a triple double, like at some point.
- [41:10]
Adam Kaufman
I agree with all of that and I still don't think he'll win.
- [41:14]
Evan Valenti
I, I'm with you in the sense that if he doesn't win, it'll be the narrative push of, you know, before I think the conversation was, well, Jokic is a fifth seed and OKC is having a historic season. But I don't know, I think now that they've closed the gap, I feel like it's more impressive for me that this version of the Nuggets with their injuries is a two seed than it is the one seed. OKC maintained their position with their injuries, if that makes any sense.
- [41:44]
Dan Greenberg
Sure.
- [41:44]
Adam Kaufman
But if I cut you off, go ahead.
- [41:47]
Dan Greenberg
No, it's all good. I bring up, I bring up the Denver game for, you know, look, Denver's great. One of the, you know, best teams in league and as we talked about, one of the hottest teams in the league. I just want to bring this up because the Celtics are on the verge here, boys, of losing their third straight game for the first time since March 3rd, 5th and 6th of 2023. So the odds, they're gonna, they're gonna bounce back here and take care of business. But I, this is why I love the fact that they're playing these couple of teams in a row like this. Coffin, you and I talked about this a couple weeks ago. I don't think Boston's gonna, like, you're not gonna see the on, off switch just because the schedule they have at the end of the year is so light. Like, they're just not playing that many teams. But this is the stretch here where in Detroit, playing really well right now obviously helps this, but this is a stretch right here where, like, we get to see kind of what Boston's made of a little bit. Like, it's, as we talked about in January, was up and down and didn't really get to see, like, the real Celtics. And they turned it around right before the All Star break. Come out of the All Star break pretty hot. Now you look at this Denver game of like, well, you know, Boston's on the verge of doing something done in like two years, which is remarkable, by the way. But I love the fact that they have a challenge on Sunday and can quickly read on against a really solid team. Green, do you think they lose for the third time? The first time in two years, to.
- [43:09]
Adam Kaufman
Be honest, before you answer that, couldn't one o' clock on a Sunday help the Celtics, too?
- [43:15]
Evan Valenti
I don't know. Aren't they usually bad in early afternoon games?
- [43:18]
Adam Kaufman
Yeah, but they're all. I mean, Denver's like, obviously it's, you know, I. I know they're not like just getting here or anything, like fly in that morning or anything like that, but there's still like the, you know, the body clock element of it. And, you know, a team that is on the west coast and all of that Mountain time.
- [43:34]
Evan Valenti
Mountain time. Different. Not, not. Not west coast time. So they're only two hours. They're only two hours behind. But I don't know. I didn't think the Celtics would lose two in a row. I mean, they've only done that once all year this season. And I just think it's going to be, you know, you have to throw out the first meeting because Jokic didn't play when they won in Denver, when he has played all the games will be close. So it's just going to come down to most likely another tough, physical defense with good size, good wings that you'll have to out execute in the clutch, going up against a guy that never misses in the clutch and can get whatever shot he wants. So they're another formidable opponent, and it's going to come down to, I think, more limiting. Jamal Murray, like, you're not going to stop Jokic, just throw that out the window. Because even if he doesn't, if he decides he doesn't feel like shooting, he's going to bury you with his passing. If he decides he wants to start being aggressive in scoring, he's too big. Like he's just, he's a monster. But I do like the idea that, you know, they're motivated, they got guys nipping on their heels. For the two seed, you're probably a little pissed off given what happened last night. So for me, this is another one of those, like, you know, it's always great to have competitive games, but it's also nice to see, you know, we're going to win a couple of these head to heads that are against good teams playing well, that have elite top end talent. Like, you know, I said it when we were in that slump. Like we have this idea of who the Celtics are, but we also have to continue to see them play on the court and execute to that standard. Like, you don't win games in theory of who you are. You have to be able to prove it consistently. And they've played well. They've just been on the short end of a couple of these, you know, you know, toss up possession here and there. Games go a certain way. The Nuggets, you can't screw around with. You can't have these four or five minute offensive lulls because Joker is just too automatic. He's going to find a great shot every second he's on the floor. And there was a, there was a Nuggets writer, I read something from him. Basically they're 30 and 5 when they win the Jokic minutes. So all they need to do is be a plus one in Jokic minutes. And they never lose when they're even or lose the non Jokic minutes. They are like the, they have the wind pace of like the Hornets. Like they cannot win if Jokic finishes a positive or a neutral or a negative. So it's like it really just comes down to can you beat the non Jokic lineup in a margin that's big enough because the second he steps on the floor, they own the best player on the court and they own a player that you cannot prevent from doing what he wants to do, which is what makes it such an interesting chess match. What I'm interested to see in is the Celts have never really shot it well from three, I feel like against the Nuggets and that's what makes their matchup so close. I feel like Aaron Gordon does a really good job with his physicality on the perimeter, Porter Jr's got length. I'm sort of waiting to see one of these 16, 17, three games against the Nuggets because they don't take threes. So if you're going to beat them, it's going to be a math equation because you can't get into a efficiency battle with Nikola Jokic. You just. That's not a winning Formula 7 game.
- [47:10]
Adam Kaufman
Home Stand for the Celtics. It obviously started with a loss, one that Boston was up 25 to 3, as we know. And then, you know, the get the F out of here from Tatum turned into a thing that really. Well, Tatum's gonna be memed on that one for a little while to correct one thing with the Nuggets, just to I push back on myself, I suppose. They did play in Detroit on Friday, so, you know, they're already obviously just on east coast time and adjusted to all of that. And so.
- [47:38]
Evan Valenti
And I think it was Milwaukee, it was Milwaukee before that.
- [47:41]
Adam Kaufman
Milwaukee before that.
- [47:42]
Evan Valenti
Yeah.
- [47:42]
Adam Kaufman
Which, you know, Central time. But even still, at least they've, you know, work their way over slowly. So, yeah, maybe one o' clock in the afternoon. The Garden won't make a difference. That's the Sunday game. Then we have a little bit of a gap. Celtics don't go anywhere. They may even get a day off, who knows? They got the Blazers, who are hot right now, four in a row and clicking despite some injuries again. Bad team, I realize, but you know, a team that could be kind of annoying if you don't take them seriously for sure. Then you have the Sixers, who are just, you know, on the verge of openly tanking now that Embiid has been shut down. Although Paul George is still on his podcast hiatus so he can focus on his actual job. Then you have the Lakers coming in one week from today as we sit here. No time to really discuss it right now. We'll have time before that game. But a. A team that honestly commands and deserves more respect than I was willing to give them at the time of that Donchic trade.
- [48:31]
Dan Greenberg
This team is.
- [48:32]
Adam Kaufman
Is playing well under J.J. redick and curious to see what they're capable of doing. Then it'll wrap up with Utah and okc. So this is a tough stretch right here into the mid March period for these Boston Celtics. Very curious to see how they come out of it, but so far didn't start. Great opportunity to rebound and avoid what would be over the last couple of years, a historic losing streak for the Boston Celtics. Hopefully they can do that. Against these Denver Nuggets. Greeny, thanks so much man. Look forward to feeling like I've talked to you all day and night for the next however long until you're on the show again as I read all of your tweets, maybe not all of them, but in game tweets anyway. And Ev, you know, who is of course as as much a part of this show as I am here on the air and even more so when he's, you know, doing all the back end production for us as well. So thanks to all of you out there watching, listening, subscribe to Celtics beat. And boys, let's, let's avoid the three game skit, huh?
- [49:32]
Evan Valenti
Let's get a nice knock on Alba Woods. Knock on all the wood around you. I mean I, it's actually pretty crazy that it's been so long. I thought I saw someone tweet out it was December 2022. But maybe, maybe that was some other.
- [49:47]
Dan Greenberg
Either way like I got right, I got it right in front of me. I'll just tell you that I have it right.
- [49:52]
Evan Valenti
Yeah.
- [49:52]
Dan Greenberg
Either way it's a long time because I, I, I only know this because for my own sanity I was like I, I know it's been a while, but I need to know exactly how long it's been. So there was a stretch earlier in that year where they lost three in a row but if you go to the end, you know, mid early March in 2023 is the last time they did it. It's still crazy that they went. They've gone almost two plus seasons. Well yeah, two plus seasons because if you do calendar years without losing three games in a row, that's insane. Insane.
- [50:22]
Adam Kaufman
Let's hope it continues and then we don't have to stress that one for a little while. For Greenie for ev. I'm Adam everyone. Thank you for watching listening. Have yourselves a great weekend and go seize enjoy this game on Sunday.
- [50:37]
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Dan Greenberg
Yep.
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