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- [00:01]
Adam Kaufman
Witness the fight the boxing world has been waiting for on Netflix.
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Dan Greenberg
Canelo Alvarez and Terence Crawford face off.
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Adam Kaufman
For the first time in their legendary.
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Dan Greenberg
Careers for the Super Middleweight Championship in Las Vegas.
- [00:15]
Adam Kaufman
The winner will walk away the greatest of their era. Watch Canelo Alvarez vs. Terence Crawford Saturday.
- [00:23]
Dan Greenberg
September 13th at 9pm Eastern, 6pm Pacific Standard Time Live only on Netflix does.
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Adam Kaufman
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Dan Greenberg
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Adam Kaufman
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Dan Greenberg
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Dan Greenberg
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Adam Kaufman
University helps you go from I know.
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Dan Greenberg
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Adam Kaufman
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Dan Greenberg
Virginia by Chev and has many campuses, including at 2121 15th Street north in Arlington, Virginia.
- [01:30]
Adam Kaufman
Today is Friday, September 12th and this is Celtics Beat on the CLNS Media Network, the leading online provider of audio video coverage of the Boston Celtics. I'm adam Kaufman. Episode 641 features sports Dan Greenberg and I'm Evan Valenti.
- [01:46]
Evan Valenti
Today's show is powered by Prize Picks and Game Time. Prize Picks is the official daily fantasy partner of CLNS Media. Download the app today, use the promo code CLNS. Get $50 instantly when you play $5 and download the Game Time app today. Use the promo code CLNS for $20 off your first purchase.
- [02:15]
Adam Kaufman
Hey everybody, welcome in. It is mid September, which means I like to remind people whenever these show starts where it is on the calendar and and I think I'm doing that for the sake of I don't know if I'm being informational or if I'm taunting myself. It's somewhere in between. We're almost there is the point. We're almost there. Training camp is coming. We're a few weeks away from exhibition play and then soon after we will be into the season. A season of which I've seen widely described on Twitter as a win win kind of year for the Boston Celtics now, why is that? Get into it, Ev. Adam Coffin, Evan Valenti, Dan Greenberg, Boss Tool Sports. You know him, stool greenie. And boys, it's viewed as win, win this season because either the Celtics are competitive and a playoff team and maybe win a round or two and it's exciting, or it's not and they're bad and it's sort of just, let's root for the young guys and let's see if we have something here.
- [03:16]
Evan Valenti
And.
- [03:16]
Adam Kaufman
And we're pulling for the lottery pick and rooting for the draft choice and all of these things, but knowing full well that this year, no matter what, there's no championship, there's no banner 19 at the end of it because there's no guy who's still 17, who's only 9, only 17 years old. Jason Tatum, he's not playing. I mean, we don't know that officially, but we believe it in our heart of hearts that Jason Tatum is not going to play this year. This is going to be a sort of a trend spotting edition of Celtics Beat. We're going to hit on some of what has been going on in the news of late surrounding this team or members of the team and surrounding the guest on this podcast. But Dan, why don't we begin there with that?
- [03:56]
Dan Greenberg
Okay.
- [03:57]
Adam Kaufman
A win, win season for the Boston Celtics.
- [04:00]
Dan Greenberg
I think when you say that, you have to have the right mindset of how you view this year, right? Like for me, this is the first season in 10 years where they really haven't had that deep run expectation. This is more. And I think John Corral has said it best, like this is an evaluation season for everybody. You're evaluating who is going to be good enough to make it through to the next iteration of the roster when you get to next summer. And you're building with the return of Tatum in mind. So in that angle, I'm with you. It's a win win because like you said, if they win more than expected and they're higher in the seating and they're competitive, that means probably at least two of your unproven young talent ends up being a hit, which is very, very important when you think of the next iteration of the roster, whether that, whether that's Hugo, whether that's Bale or Shireman, whether Jordan Walsh finally shows something like you need someone from that group to take a step. Without that, you're not going to have this mid-40s win season, top four seed. That's all out the window. So while that success would hurt you from a pick perspective, you basically are adding a young 20s talent to your roster next year. If that leap does not happen and they all prove to be Mrs. And it's a disaster. It's like you said, now you're getting a high lottery asset. Whether that's top 10, top five, whatever. The highest pick Brad Stevens has ever made is 28. So whether you're using that high lottery pick to keep or to flip, like, the only way you're gonna get that is by losing. So it's like. And that helps you. So really there's no downside. Which kind of sounds a little like, yeah, it's like everything's always great. It's the green team or whatever. But when you think of their situation and where they're in, it's a very unique spot to where if they're going to win, it's not just because Jalen plays well or Derek takes a leap, they're going to need to get contributions from their ancillary pieces. And if that doesn't happen, okay, great, we'll see you in the high lottery. And what Brad does with that pick.
- [06:19]
Adam Kaufman
Yeah, Ev, it's not like I'm sitting here saying like, you know, win, win is better than all these other seasons that we've kind of entered with a pseudo or literal season title or bus mentality, but it is going to be a whole hell of a lot less stressful.
- [06:33]
Dan Greenberg
Right?
- [06:34]
Evan Valenti
I, I don't, I don't count one of these options as a win. I don't count the. They're in the lottery because they suck so bad, like kind of a win because that means that the draft picks they've picked, like, just haven't hit the right.
- [06:47]
Dan Greenberg
So it's more like a neutral.
- [06:49]
Evan Valenti
And I'm not putting, I'm not putting Ugo in this because I just think he's too young to really, like, we don't know, like, if he does stuff like that's gonna be great. I'm not planning on him spending a time time with this unless everything goes.
- [07:04]
Adam Kaufman
But like, to quote, sucks so bad. You know that that has limits. Like, you don't. You could be a 35 win team and still be in the lottery, right? You don't, you don't need to win 15 games.
- [07:18]
Evan Valenti
Right? But then if like, let's say, let's say we don't have any growth from Walsh and Shireman and Hugo's little green and the guys, you know, we know Hauser's fine, we can put him in a separate place. Payton Pritchard graduated too. He's Legit. We don't worry about him getting any. He's gonna be fine. But it does put into me a little bit of a question of is the staff, Is this the right staff to develop internal talent?
- [07:44]
Adam Kaufman
Because before that. Wait, before that, I think you're discounting door number three. Door number three is Jalen Brown and Derrick White for one reason or another. And I, I root for nothing bad for them. I don't want anything serious to happen, but let's just say one or both of these guys misses two months of the season, then you could get a boatload of development out of the guys that you're talking about and still not be good enough to win.
- [08:10]
Evan Valenti
That's. But again, you know, my point being you have to do like, even though if you get a high draft, it's like, cool, or if you get, you know, whatever middling draft pick, cool. But you have to see some development from guys and if you don't. So the question becomes, is this team bad at developing players? I don't think so, considering Jalen and Jason and Peyton Pritchard and Sam Houston get a lot of examples of. The Celtics have done a decent job considering where they've drafted developing homegrown talent like the, the Aaron N.E. smith one. Still hurts. But like, I get why that one didn't work out. It's just the time. Didn't have enough playing time, enough rhythm with this team. Totally fine. So you question, do they know how to identify talent and they can they develop it? It's worked for some guys. It might not work for everybody, but like, as I get back to the point of hitting on draft picks is how these borderline second apron teams are going to hang around. Right. You saw Denver, look at the Denver last year, saw their bench and was like, our bench sucks. We have to find a way to make upgrades. And that not only they make upgrades, I think their team is just significantly better by getting rid of Michael Porter Jr adding in Bruce Brown and Cam Johnson, like, I just think they're way better and they're going to be like a way better, more formidable team top to bottom. Now if that's what happens with Boston, because they find out some of these guys like can't hack it and that's fine. But it's also a negative a little bit for me personally of, you know, is this the right group to have together? Right. You know, if. If they can't develop guys and turn them into something, there's a little bit of a problem. There's a. Is it a development Thing is it an eye at the draft. Like we don't have the right idea for. We're not looking at the right guys. Like there's. There is a downfall here and I don't want to make it sound like, well, whatever happens in 25, 26, life is great. Who cares? I think there's. Baby, there's definitely some, some places in which Boston come up short. And that's a really big problem because the landscape of the NBA is changing so much at this point that you have to be able to move and pivot quickly if things don't go your way.
- [10:25]
Dan Greenberg
Yeah. And I think what you touched on is the biggest question mark of this whole next wave and that's Brad still has to prove he can draft right. Like we have not given where he's picked. I think we all want to give him the benefit of the doubt. Like great. The 45th pick isn't an NBA starter in year two. Like okay, great. But at the same time, like you mentioned, these expensive rosters at which the Celtics will be moving forward, it is not a nice to have. It is a requirement that you are finding cheap rotational draft picks. Like that's non negotiable because you're not going to be able to keep going over the second apron for three, you know, three years in a row, whatever have you. So to me, I'm with you in that of this group of four or five guys that are year three and below, two of them have to prove to be rotational players. Like that's not like you non debatable if, if you go over five, it's a, it's like you said, it's. That's not great. Even if that lands you this top, you know, lottery pick. When you think of how they're going to be able to fill out the rest of their roster unless they're flipping that pick for more NBA ready talent. Like you're only five or six deep of playable players and with Tatum coming back and you don't want to put on the stress of him having to backpack everything right away. You, you need two of the walshireman, Amare and Hugo, preferably Amari if he can be one of the two. Because they need big help. Like you have to prove to be playable at the NBA level. You don't need to be, you know, as rock solid as Jrue Holiday was. But like you need to be playable and we have not seen them because they haven't had the opportunity yet. So I look at that as an exciting storyline for this season. But if they go over five, it is a bit of a disaster with how their roster is constructed.
- [12:21]
Adam Kaufman
All right, let me give you a version of Greeny's summer league crushes then. I'm not going to ask you to rank guys, but all these guys that you are talking about alluding to anyway right now, I don't want you to. Again, I don't want you to list them 1 through 5. Let's go high and low end. Which guy do you have the most confidence in, shows the most promise, you have the highest expectations for, versus the other end of the spectrum where you feel like this guy, no matter how much you may like him or whatever he has shown to date, or maybe he's brand new, he's just got let down written all over him.
- [12:57]
Dan Greenberg
I don't know if I'm really confident in any of them, but I would say the one that I think will help them most should he hit will be Jordan Walsh. Because when I look at their wing size, perimeter defense, he's built like Jason Tatum, he's big, he's skinny, he's long. That's a position I think they're gonna need to really hit. And I view Shireman as more of like he's the one that might disappoint because I think we saw more from him last year in those flashes in March where he looked like a guy that could take that year. Well, what year? Year two leap, year three leap, whatever it is. But when I think of positional need, defensive skill set and just how he could fit, maybe play a little small ball four and the fact that this is his last year before he becomes an unrestricted free agent. So basically his future is on the line. It's Jordan Walsh and I think his summer league was so much better this year where he didn't try to do too much. He played more in the role that you could see him filling this year. And I just look at some of his highlights and the flashes that he shows of like, hey, if you can just figure something out, there may be a 15, 20 minute rotation player in there. I think it has to be him because he's also the youngest, right? Isn't he only barely 21, aside from Hugo, like he might be the youngest out of all the prospects. So he's my hope for someone that at least shows you he's ready for that six, seventh man spot in this gap year that then turns into a if someone gets into foul trouble on the wing next year, you can feel confident playing, you know, him substantial, you know, rotation Minutes.
- [14:45]
Evan Valenti
Yeah, he's right. Because the Celtics have a million guards. Even with all the changes and everything, they still have. They're still very, very healthy in the guard spot. Like in, you know, depends how you're going to qualify Jalen Brown here. But if you think about it off the top of your head, they have Jalen, they have Derek White, they have Peyton Pritchard, they have. I would call Baylor Shireman just like Green. I would call him a guardian, call him a wing, right? And even with all that, like, what is Sam Houser? Hauser's, you know, a 2, 3 hybrid. You know, he could play a little bit of both if he asked him to. Walsh is there like one true wing off the bench. You don't have anybody. You know, he can't play. He can't hack it. Like, and I forgot Anthony Simons, obviously, we don't even know who's on. Like, he's. He's. He's in the facility. That's great. But like, Simons is another guard. Like, they have plenty of guards. That's fine. You need a wing guy in the worst way humanly possible. And much like Greeny, I was thrilled what I saw from Jordan Walsh in the summer. Again, a guy that knew what his role was, didn't try and do too much, just let the game come to him. You know, he looked like the game was slowing down a little bit. He wasn't rushing like Baylor Shireman was. He wasn't trying to backpack. I love the term. The entire team going 1 for 9 from 3 point range. Like he knew what he needed to do and what he could do and what he couldn't do. I find that extremely valuable. It's just the lack of depth behind him. I mean, there is none. I mean, again, what's the call you go at this point? We don't know. Again, is he more of a guard? Is he more of a wing?
- [16:09]
Dan Greenberg
But even still, he's. He's only what, six, three, six, four, right? He's not like, oh, six, six. Okay. Because I think that's the biggest thing is, right, this team just lost a whole bunch of players that can guard up, right? Like Drew guards up. Tatum guards up. I'm not sure I love Baylor Shireman guarding up. I'm not sure I love Anthony Simons guarding up.
- [16:33]
Evan Valenti
Jalen can do it, but I'm also guarding anybody. Never mind.
- [16:37]
Dan Greenberg
So it's like, when I think of how this team gets back to the title team, it's having a roster of guys that can defend multiple positions Outside of Tatum on the wing and maybe with a little bit of Jaylen Brown, you do not have that. Which is why, you know, Walsh is the, you know, the Belgarin draft pick that was supposed to come in and be the bench wing and he turned out to not even be like a real person. So it's like you need to fill that void. And they keep drafting these like combo guards as opposed to the wing position. He needs to hit and I think with consistent minutes he'll prove to be because defensively I feel like he's there, right? Like he can, he can give you passable defense. I think for him it's just opportunity and confidence which is why this is such a good year for him to make those mistakes and not get pulled because who the hell else are they going to play? It's like Joe can't give these guys short leashes because there's no backfill. So it's like throw them out there, let them make the mistakes and evaluate it. And when you get to the summer, you won't have the same second apron restrictions. If you need to spend the mid level on someone to find that position, you can. If you need to use a TPE to bring it in, great. But wing is high. Wing and big for me are high on my list of their biggest position of need. Let's take a quick break, tell you.
- [18:03]
Adam Kaufman
About our good friends over at Prize Picks.
- [18:06]
Evan Valenti
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- [21:36]
Adam Kaufman
All right, back here with Greenie and we're talking about a lot of the players and expectations surrounding these guys on the floor this year. And there's plenty more opportunity to continue that conversation, obviously, as the weeks come and we hear from everybody at media day, you know, best shape my lifetime of the year. And everyone's positive. Everyone's, oh no, everyone's gonna win a title. Ah, it's, it's wonderful. It's coming. But I'll Tell you what, with all the questions, many of which you just brought up among some of the younger guys. Greeny, there are always questions surrounding Joe Missoula, the head coach. Now I find in Joe's short tenure here we have been doing this show weekly ever since obviously and beyond. I mean we were doing this back to 2018. Evan, I took over this show and Joe is. People are skeptical of Joe. I don't entirely understand it. I mean I, I understand portions of it. I don't think any coach is infallible, but the guy has had some pretty impressive runs here in his short time as a head coach in the NBA including. Oh by the way, that banner 18 nevertheless did get a comment on YouTube couple shows ago that we haven't had a chance to get to yet. I think you'd be a good guest to hit on this from Justin Mohan, I believe is the name Justin. I apologize if I'm saying that incorrectly but we do thank you for your loyalty to the show and please continue everyone to comment. We do read these comments on YouTube. Don't respond to all of them, but we read them all. Your main topic one week should be what we can expect from Joe Missoula because he has not really been challenged as a coach until this year. Could it end up like some of the early Brad Stevens teams or worse. Brad Stevens made something out of nothing in his first few years. Nobody in the Celtics media has really covered this in depth. Do this before the season starts. It would be different and interesting. What I will say to Justin, I said this in my response when we were chatting on YouTube a little bit. I think we've covered elements of this. We've certainly talked about what lies in front of Joe. Ev has brought this up a number of times. The fact that this is a great opportunity for Missoula to try something new, to get creative to enter a year that doesn't have the same banner expectations to build around certain guys in the offense on a daily like this is the first time we're going to see day to day full year if he's healthy. Jaylen Brown is the clear cut number one. There is no Jason Tatum. What does Derrick White look like as the second fiddle even though he was a lot of the time but as the clear second fiddle and there is no offense from Kristaps Porzingis you will get in theory. I mean you, you could. Peyton Pritchard could flirt with 20 points per game. Anthony Simons, if he's on this team could flirt with 20 points per game. Points have to come from somewhere. And we just finished talking about how there's no depth on this roster. There's nobody in the big man, you know, group to, to even get excited about outside of, you know, I, I, I'm excited about Amari. I guess, you know, to, to some degree we can get excited about the dude over from Toronto. But, you know, how we feeling about this comment from Justin Greeny as far.
- [24:47]
Dan Greenberg
As what we should really expect from.
- [24:51]
Adam Kaufman
Joe Missoula this year?
- [24:53]
Dan Greenberg
So, so I have some thoughts on this, as I'm sure you could imagine. I think the first part of that comment, the first part of that comment that makes me sort of pause is the comment where he said that, you know, early in Brad's tenure, he was making something out of nothing. I think people forget what the first two years or really year and a half of the Brad Stevens era looked like pre Isaiah Thomas trade in February of the 2014-15 season. Before that trade. Let me, I had it pulled up here. Let me read it to you. They were, where is it? They were, oh, my God, I just had it. Oh, my God. They were like 30 games under 5. It was like 41 and 88 under 500 pre Isaiah Thomas trade. And then after Isaiah came over in February is when they took off that second half, you remember, of 2015. And then from there, once Isaiah was on the roster, they were making these conference finals. They were like 40 games over.500 in that final year and a half. So I do just want to make it known as genius of an X&O's coach, as Brad Stevens is and was at that time. There is a component to where you are, what your talent is to some degree, right? So when I hear the words that Joe Mazzulla was never challenged, I also kind of, you know, push back on that because you have to remember how he got this job. Named the head coach two days before training camp on a team that had win a title or bust expectations is just as challenging as trying to win with a lesser roster. Just because you have talent, you have, does not mean that that's going to translate to wins. We all remember the 2018-19 Celtics roster that was completely loaded. That team didn't even win 50 games and lost in the second round. So it's like I always push back against that because they think, oh, I could have coached the 24 team to the title, blah, blah, blah. No, you couldn't. Like, that's just like, no, that's not a real thing. When I think of Joe's expectations For this season, they say, oh, this is Jalen's chance to prove he's a number one. Well, remember, this team lost five of their top nine rotation players. I'm factoring in Horford, I'm factoring in Tatum. Not playing like your roster is what it is. The replacements that Brad Stevens brought in have a ceiling, right? These are all unproven young NBA players who couldn't even crack the rotations on the teams that they came from. This is not a situation where they're coming in and they're going to vault this team to 50 or so wins. When I look at how we are evaluating Joe Missoula, it goes back to right? What we were talking about before is are you showing me growth from your young talent that they are producing at a passable NBA level? If you, if that's the case, but you win, you know, 35, 37 games because of that's the ceiling of your roster, okay, great. If you're not getting that growth and also not winning, it's like, all right, well what are we doing here? Like what, what have you accomplished this year? But what I'm weary of is people are going to say you had Jalen Brown as a number one, you have Derrick White, you have Peyton Pritchard. Why aren't you a top three seed? And I think people forget of what goes into winning at a consistent level. You to get into the mid-40s and be a top 3, 4, 5 seed, you need to be top 10 offensively or top 10 defensively. Where is that on this roster without Jason Tatum and with all the pieces that they've lost, I think to say, oh, this should be the expectation that there is still going to be a positive net rating team that has a top five offense. You're just being intellectually dishonest based on what their roster looks at. So for me it's, are you showing growth from the young guys? Are you finding ways to create and produce on the floor and not just being a Jason Tatum merchant and just letting him do everything for you. Those are the process things that I think we can evaluate the win loss record, all that shit like your roster is your roster. Brad Stevens barely won 20 games with his dog roster when he first got there. It wasn't until they brought in a guy who turned out to be a top five MVP caliber player in his two and a half year run that they vaulted into the mid-40s, were making deep playoff runs. So every good coach needs talent. I think it's disingenuous to say you're not a good coach unless you win at a high level without elite talent. That's just not how the NBA works in 2025. Rant over no one.
- [29:53]
Evan Valenti
One of the things I'm looking forward to is, is how different they look. And I forget who brought it up. Maybe it was Jared Weiss or. No, we've all the shows at this point kind of blend together. But the idea of them, no matter what medically is different about this team in terms of X's and O's and where they try and focus on and will it be better cutting team, will they do this? They should at least be a faster team, right? So like I want to see from Joe a little bit, if anything just a more of an up tempo pace because we just watched in the NBA finals not that long ago, two teams that were flying up and down the floor at an insane level. Like we watched the Knicks get beat by a Pacers team that just basically wore them out by running up and down the floor. And you look at Boston in the depth day, I know they weren't like the deepest team in the world, but they had a lot of depth in certain areas and they could afford to run the Knicks a little bit more than they did. They just didn't do it because as we've all seen for the past kajillion years, Boston and Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown tend to slow things down in those moments instead of trying to speed things up and trying to get easy points, I'm at least at the bare minimum looking for that. I'm looking for a little bit different tempo for this team. There roster also suggests that they should be a team that plays a little bit faster. They don't have Al Horford, they don't have Kristaps Porzingis. Their bigs are younger and a little bit more athletic. And if you want to call Minot like a a wing hybrid, you want to call Chris Boucher a wing hybrid. They don't really have many plotters, right? Like the only plotter is really Luca Garza maybe, but we don't really know because we haven't seen him get a lot of run in an NBA game like really at all since he left. It was Iowa, right? He left Iowa, I think it was Iowa, I think.
- [31:43]
Dan Greenberg
Yeah.
- [31:44]
Evan Valenti
Anyway, point being the roster looks a lot different and for me I've been in the drum of like we need to see something else from Joe, we got to see a curveball. Etc. The roster dictates they do something a little bit differently like they, they don't have the three point marksman they had previously, obviously. No Tatum, you're not gonna have Drew Holiday shooting 62 from the corners. You're not gonna have Chris Porzingis at 7 foot 2 at least pull guys out to 30ft from the basket and be a threat from there. Al Horford, love him to death. You know, you're not going to have his three point reliability there at all whatsoever. You're going to have to play a little bit differently. So like I believe in Missoula ball. I believe the math. The math works. We watched it for a whole season. The math worked and then it didn't work. So how do we combine the math working with something different to get the new evolution of Missoula ball? And that's really all I'm looking for. If I don't see that, I have concerns.
- [32:41]
Dan Greenberg
The only thing I would say to that, because I agree with you, they should play faster. I think the cutting aspect is probably going to be the most notable. I mean that's all Hugo did in summer league was just off ball cut. So just, just him being in the rotation potentially, they just never moved off ball as it is. So just adding someone to do that will help. But in terms of playing faster, my fear for that is I'm not sure how this team is going to get stops if we're being honest. So is, is that running, is that running off makes? Because their rebounding is going to be awful and their defense is probably going to be bottom third just in terms of the lack of room protection and the lack of perimeter on ball defense. So it's like, are you even going to be generating enough strength stops to get out and transition and play fast? So that's. They may want to play fast, but if they're not generating those transition opportunities, their only chance is going to be to run off makes like we saw the Pacers do, right? Like that's a situation where they were quick taking the ball out and then Halliburton was going nem hard was going. They weren't waiting until 15, 16 seconds left on the shot clock to get their set started. I just fear that like if it's nothing but layup lines, teams are going to be back and you're just not going to have the opportunity for it. In terms of the change in style, my fear is like, what's the alternative? As like you've lost all your good and main post op options. Who do you feel good about? Aside from Jaylen Brown in posting up not Porzingis he's gone. Not Al Horford, he's gone. Not chasing Tatum, he's gone. So it's almost like I'm curious of how they're even gonna generate offense, because if it's just going to be drive and kick, okay, that's fine. We know that works. But now you have much worse shooters taking those shots when those aren't going in and you want to adjust well, remember, that's why they traded for Porzingis, because they did not have a. You know, when a team switches against the Celtics, what's their. What. What's their plan? Like, who's the big. That you're giving the ball to on a mismatch and say, okay, go to work and punish that. That switch. Like, I don't want Luca Garza doing that. I don't know if I want Keita doing that. So I think that's what's exciting is the unknown of, like, how the hell are they even going to generate offense? Because now teams are going to focus more on Jalen Brown. Now the spacing on all Derrick White's threes is going to be just a little bit worse because they don't have Tatum's gravity to feed off of. Same thing with Hauser and Pritchard. All of those open threes that we've been watching for two years are going to be slightly more contested. So if that Production drops by 3%, where are you generating the scoring in the offense? In other ways, knowing that all the guys you had that generated those sets are off the team.
- [35:35]
Adam Kaufman
Yeah. My concern would simply be, you guys.
- [35:38]
Evan Valenti
Highlighted a lot of this.
- [35:39]
Adam Kaufman
I'm not going to rehash it. My concern would be if they do come out and they play the same way next year, if Joe hasn't accounted.
- [35:46]
Dan Greenberg
But they probably will. They probably just don't.
- [35:50]
Adam Kaufman
But. But you got to account for, I'm not so fine a week later. My point is you gotta. You gotta account for the changes on your roster. You can't come out and play the same way. I know the math is the math. You can still stylistically say we want to lean to the three pointer, but you can't come out and operate inside out the same way.
- [36:10]
Evan Valenti
You just. You can't.
- [36:10]
Adam Kaufman
You don't have the personnel to do it. I mean, you guys just hit on all the different reasons why it wouldn't work, why you don't have the depth for it, why you don't have the size or reliability for it, why you don't have the talent for this, why you don't have the shooters for that. You can't do it. Joe has to realize that. And this is, and I don't know, I'm not a basketball coach. I don't scheme basketball. I watch basketball. I feel like fairly analytically, but I am not. I wouldn't pretend to know what Joe Missoula knows or Brad Stevens knows. But I trust that we have two very intelligent minds, among others that are part of this coaching staff, front office building in general, that they can, you know, heads can come together and say, okay, we got to mix it up a little bit. I mean it's not like Brad Stevens never adjusted throughout his tenure as head coach. The eight years or whatever it was, they weren't playing the same way in 20, whatever it was, 21 or 22, whatever his last year was as they were when he took over in 2013-14. So, you know, you need to be amenable a little bit. If Joe, and I don't say this because I expected, I say this because this is a little consistent with his personality. If Joe is stubborn, that's a problem.
- [37:24]
Dan Greenberg
I would just tell you remember of how what their system truly is, it's about finding an advantage and exploiting that advantage. So it's like to me by a very prominent person. So understand that like if they take 53s last year, maybe that number is 40 this year, right back to what it was in, you know, the, the title year. But I just think their mentality of creating two on ones and finding the best shot available. I do not want them to change even with what their roster looks like now. Like that is the foundation of how this team needs to be playing. I just think where you're talking about is maybe Instead of having a 50, 53 point attempt or set, maybe let that be a backdoor cut every once in a while, find ways to generate it. But it's not like they're going to go from 53s last year to like middle of the pack 30, 35. No, they'll probably. I get that we're in the 40s and their approach will be the same in terms of creating an advantage and getting the defenses to rotate. I just think we're going to see those shots not go in which will result in them winning 35 to 37 games. But the idea that you have to remember is this is only a one year gap year type deal where it's main rotation guys I want playing the same way they always play because we know that that works. It's now more can the Younger guys, it's the evaluation period of are you good enough to play this way? If not, see you later once we get to this next offseason.
- [38:59]
Adam Kaufman
Well, let's not forget too, and I know you guys know this, that we need to get, you know, I just want to see a little experiment, experimentation. And that doesn't purely mean the way you play, it could be who you play. You know, we want to see different combinations, what works, what doesn't. Because like you said, there are some guys that you know or assume are not going to be on the roster a year from now. But those who are, who are, you know, part of this next attempted phase anyway, who aren't just part of this gap year, as you put it, as we've all put it, you know, I want to see what things look like and injuries, health, all of that, that's going to dictate a lot of that too. But if you're entering a season with full health and let's hope you can keep it for, you know, as long as you can anyway, an extended period of time, I don't want there to be just a, a locked in decision of. All right. Peyton Pritchard is without a doubt our sixth man. Or conversely, Anthony Simons is without a doubt our sixth man. Or you know, these two guys are without a doubt are starting bigs mix and match a little bit, play around because who knows what may work.
- [40:10]
Dan Greenberg
I would agree with that, but I would say it's also the evaluation is like if you want to know if Peyton Pritchard can be your starting point guard in the next iteration, make him the starting point guard and give him the full confidence of that role where it's his job to lose. And my guess is he probably won't lose it because he's a competitive monster. So it's like I also, that's part of what I'm thinking of when I think of evaluation for the next iteration of the roster. We need to know if Peyton Pritchard can be the starting point guard or not. Well, to do that, that may just have to say hell or high water. We're going to throw him to the wolves and see if he sinks or swims in that role. And if he sinks, you now know that's an area of need in the off season because you now need a starting point guard, you know, because I personally believe Derrick White's better as an off ball two guard. But I'm with you, like with the young guys and the bigs mix and match play, double bigs play Certain combinations, because like we said, if the results don't work and you lose, big freaking deal. We just need the institutional knowledge of what these guys can or can't do because none of them have played any substantial rotation, NBA minutes, you know, thus far in their career.
- [41:22]
Evan Valenti
Here's my question for the both of you. And I'm glad, Green, you kind of brought this up in your last point, not the one you just made previous about how they, their offense is the. Let's find a weakness and we'll pick at it. We'll keep picking out, AKA the killer whale offense. So my question for both of you is what animal is Joe Missoula currently locked your lab studying right now to figure out what they need to do to revamp their, their offensive forward philosophy? Because, like, I, I thought about this as like, you're thinking about cutting like a trapdoor spider sort of situation.
- [41:53]
Dan Greenberg
Okay?
- [41:53]
Evan Valenti
Like, have something here, but have like a good get out where somebody leaks out this. I don't know, I just, I say this is a joke primarily, but it's like one of these things. Like, you know, the one thing we'll say about Missoula, it's gonna be something small, right?
- [42:06]
Adam Kaufman
Like if, you know, last year they were just.
- [42:09]
Evan Valenti
He's like, killer whale.
- [42:12]
Adam Kaufman
Makes sense now. Now we're gonna need something that's like smaller. Yeah. I mean, yeah, smaller in a whale doesn't, you know, of course. But no, I mean, like, like, what.
- [42:21]
Dan Greenberg
About like a killer hornet?
- [42:25]
Evan Valenti
Like, like a. What's the, what's the Asian hornet? That's like 18 times bigger.
- [42:29]
Dan Greenberg
Yeah. Something where it's like, yeah, maybe you're unassuming, but once everyone's on the same page, it becomes like a devastating hive. I mean, I don't know, I'm spitballing.
- [42:38]
Evan Valenti
But you, you know, my point being like, you know, the one thing about Joe is, you know, he's. He's in the lab thinking of something. Right? Like, we'll see whatever it is. But for you to come up with the things that he's come up with, like, I studied. You know, everybody always talks about when you see a goal scored in, in soccer, about what led to that. But they're missing the. Not the defensive possession before, but the one before that where they set this up and all the stuff in between actually more to the gold than the gold itself. Like, he's always about stuff, you know, obviously the killer world. I studied the, the. The hunting habits of killer whales and that came up with a thing, you know, he's thinking of it. You know, he's watching the town and watching the Dark Knight and trying to make sure he gets the best human, like the best anecdote to make his point. But we just got to see it. And I'm. And like both of you, I'm sure everybody listening and watching, like there is a lot of excitement built around that piece of. What does it look like? I can't wait to see it. I can't wait for the first preseason game so we get a better idea because it's, it's just a new era of Southern basketball we're heading into and it's the beginning of it. So it's, it's a little bit mysterious and there's a lot of intrigue in mystery. You know what I mean?
- [43:54]
Dan Greenberg
Yeah. I just, I would just advise anyone to be sort of cautious of the they have to change how they play because like the other options of how you could change how you play they do not have. Right. Like they don't have post guys, they don't have mid range, they don't have really outside of Jalen Brown shot creators. Like they're probably going to play a very similar style of what we've watched these last three years. It's just not going to be as successful because of who's taking, you know, those shots unless we get that jump that none of us can predict because we haven't seen it from those shooters. Say Quick Break.
- [44:30]
Adam Kaufman
Tell you about our friends over at Game Time.
- [44:34]
Evan Valenti
Quick Break. Tight Today show is powered by Game Time. NFL is back in action. It means two things. One, it is a great time to remind you as the co host of Celtics beat that basketball is quickly approaching. That's the first thing. Second thing, it's a great time to remind you guys about the best ticket app on the market and that is Game Time. The Game Time app gives the advantage back to the fans. It's the hack for unlocking amazing tickets and experiences in just a few taps. It's incredibly easy to use and the game Time guarantee means you can Trust you'll get 100 authentic tickets on time and for the best price. Plus fees are always included. So what you see is what you pay. It's that simple. And with that in mind, folks talked last week we had the home opener for the Patriots coming up. Not this week. They're in Miami next week. Steelers in town. The get in price right now about $213. But that is not the best deal available to you. If you use Game Time. Game Time will filter for you. The the best deals, values, etc on the planet. They'll even spell it out for you. Greatest deal, amazing deal, great deal. It's all there in front of you so you can make the most conscious decision with your wallet in mind. And not only that, Sox fans playoff tickets now look not guaranteed yet. We're getting close in baseball in Fenway in October. There's nothing like it. If you've been. You know what I'm talking about. If you haven't been, create a core memory today and use Game Time to do it. Okay. Know your total upfront with Game Time. No, I'm surprised. Feature checkouts, zone deals. You save even more when you choose a section and let Game Time choose the seats for you. Look, Game Time probably got your best intentions at hand. That's all I'm going to say. They want to give you the best experience. They want to keep you coming back. That's why Game Time rules. You can get views from your seat panoramic panoramic view from your seat in the app before you buy as lowest price guaranteed or Game Time will credit you 110% of the difference. So you're making money with the Game Time. It's not even possible. Take the guesswork out of buying NFL Major League Baseball tickets with Game Time down the Game Time app create an account, use the code CLNS for 20 bucks off your first purchase. Terms apply again, create an account, redeem code CLNS 20 bucks off your first purchase. Swipe, tap ticket. Go download the Game Time app today.
- [47:21]
Adam Kaufman
Back with Greeny for the stretch run here. And we remind people by the way, of course download the podcast if you're into the audio version. You can get it wherever you get your podcast, Pandora, Spotify, Apple, you name it, we are there wherever it is. And of course video. The CLNS Media YouTube page has a collection of great video. It is not just Celtics content. You have Patriots content. Seasons underway. Good God, they'd better win in Miami. Coming up on Sunday, the Red Sox, as we sit here on a Friday right now, are about to begin a playoff atmosphere. Atmospheric kind of series with the New York Yankees at Fenway. Final 15 games of the regular season jockeying for playoff seating. Is the division still in play? I would say it most certainly is three and a half back with the series ahead with Toronto as well. So get excited and you can get a lot of great content around all the CLNS shows available on the CLNS Media YouTube page. But for Celtics specific content, including shows like this one Celtics beat, check out the Celtics all access Page this show, so many others had Bobby Manning on with us recently. Obviously, he's got shows there, part of the Garden Report and elsewhere. Noah has been on with us recently. Noah Dalzel. There's. It's just. There's stuff all over the place, so make sure you check that out. But most importantly, this one, let's be honest. Celtics, meet your flagship podcast of the CLNS media network as it relates to Celtics content. Greeny, while we're talking podcast here, I understand you have a new featured role as part of maybe pretty prevalent podcast as well.
- [49:03]
Dan Greenberg
I do, yeah. It's. It's. Honestly, it never ceases to amaze me. You know, life can be. Can be crazy. You know, things can. Can happen you just could never dream of in a million years. But I think it was right around last week, a little before then. You know, normally my mentions are filled with, you know, people tell me, you know, all kinds of crazy things, and then, you know, Twitter, porn bots or whatever. So I happen to know, you know, what's that go? I don't know if that's just my algorithm or what's going on. So that's crazy, but could be both. I saw a message from someone that appeared to be a real person, and it. As it turns out, it was someone from Derek White's team asking me if I'd be interested in having a segment on his show to sort of ask questions, be a voice of the people, talk through things as they're happening throughout the season. So I think a lot of it is still workshopping and what they want it to be, what it's capable of being. But for their recent episode, I wrote them a handful of questions of things that really, I care about. I don't really care if nobody else cares about them. They're just things that torment my deranged brain. But it was just very surreal of hearing them being like, oh, you know, we've been talking about you, want you to join all this stuff and participate, which, like, obviously I'm interested in. You know, that I have plenty of things to ask, you know, Derek about throughout the year, so we'll see how it goes. It's still a little surreal to hear them, you know, mention me and talk about me, and I'm sure we'll have sort of video overlays kind of like this as it goes on. But I hope so. My. My hope and what I want to use it for is aside from the deranged things that keep me up at night, you know, throughout a season of really just Being a voice of the people. I mean, the only reason I'm in this position is because of, you know, people like you who have me on this show, people who, who read the blog, interact. Like we all care about the same stuff and I feel like it makes sense to ask someone what we all care about. Like I want to know why he and the rest of the team cannot throw an entry pass. I want answers of why they just can't do that. So part of it will be some fun stuff, part of it will be hopefully some basketball related things that just pique my interest. Like one of my questions for him that they didn't answer on this episode but maybe Will in the future is he now has to be a number two. So what part of his game is he developing and what can we expect to see change? Is it his pick and roll offense? Is it his isolation, scoring and shot creation? Like when we think of Derrick White has to be a number two on this roster, what does that mean to him as someone who now has to go out and produce it? So it's just, it's all so surreal. You know, you forget the, you know, a lot of people read your stuff on the Internet even if you don't think that might be the case. So they were nice enough to reach out to me and we'll see how it goes. But it is just kind of crazy to think about. You know, I went from Dming with his dad during the games to like give him tips to now I'll be able to say it to his face as is kind of crazy. And you know, like I said, it's just very humbling and very appreciative of like I said, if, if, you know, I'm fortunate that people give a about what I have to say for some ungodly reason. And I'm just, you know, appreciative of guest appearances like this. People who click on the blogs just it's really for a, a nut job like me just does not even feel. Feel kind of real at this point. Well, subscribe.
- [52:57]
Adam Kaufman
Greeny. Where, where can people not. Not the like, what's it called, you know, what are you going to be doing? Podcast.
- [53:03]
Dan Greenberg
Yeah. So the show is White Noise with Derek White. They have their own YouTube channel that I imagine you can subscribe to and get all the stuff there. I don't believe they have like a show Twitter account or anything like that, but I would say just do their normal YouTube channel. I'll obviously tweet out. Like I tweeted out he had this Unbelievable answer on Missoula ball that, like, I almost cried when I watched it because it was exactly what I was hoping he would say and how he explained it. So, like, I'm sure I'll be putting out clips like that that, you know, are things that I care about, and I think things that we in the Celtics, you know, echo chamber, we talk about that, you know, we might want to know. So you guys have my number. I'm basically a vessel for your brain. If there's something you want to know, tell me, and we'll. We'll get it in front of him and see how he. How he responds to it. But I think, you know, what I'm interested in is during the season, talking through certain plays, what he's thinking, what was happening. Basically, have it be like a live reaction of some, because I feel like when he does press conferences, he's very by the book, doesn't really give you a lot of. So it's my hope that when he's talking to someone as deranged as I am, that I'm able to make him more of a human and open up more. And it sounds like based on the answers I got from, you know, the few they chose for the last episode, that we'll be able to do that and get him to come out of his shell and we'll see. But we'll see. It's only been one episode. It's in the early stages, but my hope is that it turns out to be a pretty fun exercise.
- [54:38]
Evan Valenti
Do you have one in the chamber that, like, you're waiting for a little bit, but maybe the show to get some traction? So there are more eyes and more ears on the show. You're like, I got this one. I'm waiting on it. I. I cannot wait to ask him this question, but I want to wait a little while.
- [54:51]
Dan Greenberg
So I've. So I. So I gave them 10, and I think they just picked four for this. I think they're just gonna keep deciding what to pick. There are some that like that they didn't include. That I think would be pretty awesome for him to expand upon, but I think it's more going to be. Anytime I think of something, I'm going to make a note of it as something to ask, and then, you know, the hope will be that we'll be able to cover it. For this first one, it was more. You know, I was obviously out of town last week, so I just gave them a bunch to pick and choose from. But if there's something that's like not controversial, but is unavoidable. I'm almost going to like demand that I ask it, but they've given me free clearance to ask whatever I want. You know, stupid, funny, ridiculous, basketball related, basically. You know, what goes into my blogs and whatever tangent I find myself going on in those, I can just bring that and ask him, you know, live and see what he says.
- [55:52]
Adam Kaufman
So who has he did the show with?
- [55:56]
Dan Greenberg
I think it's one of his longtime blog buddies. I think they went to school in Colorado together, college together, used to play together. So I don't know much more than that. Again, we've only been texting for like six days leading up to this.
- [56:11]
Evan Valenti
But you and the host are.
- [56:12]
Adam Kaufman
You and Derek.
- [56:14]
Dan Greenberg
Me, the host and one of the other people associated with. I have his email, not his phone number yet. So maybe I'll. I'll break down that barrier.
- [56:23]
Adam Kaufman
Gotta get Derek on the text thread, man. That's how you'll. Then, then you know when. Because I saw the clip of, of them introducing the segment that you'll be doing and him talking about how, you know, obviously learning the details of the exchange that you had had with his dad on. On Twitter in the DMs, a story that you've told us in the past on this show as well. But him saying that he's like, I don't tweet or anything like that during halftime. But like, yeah, I went and I checked my phone. Yeah, the text and I reacted to it. Now he's going to be reading your text.
- [56:52]
Evan Valenti
I know it's your crazy lunatics text. It's crazy at the break.
- [56:57]
Adam Kaufman
Dangerous is what it is.
- [56:58]
Dan Greenberg
I know. And so we'll see. Hopefully I won't blow it. But again, there are. I'm not always the most rational in the heat of the moment, so I'm gonna try to take a breath and.
- [57:08]
Adam Kaufman
I have to imagine they know what they're getting.
- [57:10]
Dan Greenberg
Yeah, I hope so too, I think. And that sort of. And I sort of preface that by being like, you know, you're engaging with an extremely deranged individual who, you know, will focus on the smallest minute detail that for 99 of the world they won't care about. But for me, it's my entire life and they seem to be okay with it. That's what they wanted. So it's almost like you know what you're asking for. So don't turn back when you guys.
- [57:34]
Adam Kaufman
I mean, we're all, we're on the range of the same age. You guys remember the old Chris Kattan Saturday Night Live mango sketches.
- [57:45]
Evan Valenti
I thought you were gonna do. Right. Of the Roxbury.
- [57:46]
Adam Kaufman
No, no, no, no, no. I mean, I'm talking about mango, where it's. I mean, you go look it up, YouTube it or whatever. I'm sure there are a billion examples of it. But, you know, you're basically mango in this situation. It's like, you don't ask a rainbow to not be a rainbow.
- [58:00]
Dan Greenberg
Right, Right.
- [58:01]
Evan Valenti
Like, they know.
- [58:02]
Adam Kaufman
They know what they're getting. You don't ask green to not be greeny. You're getting a crazy person here.
- [58:06]
Dan Greenberg
Right.
- [58:07]
Adam Kaufman
They're embracing that. This is good for the viewership.
- [58:09]
Dan Greenberg
Yeah. Like, I won't spoil them all, but, like, one of the questions I wrote that they didn't answer, I was like, at what point after going bald did you know, you unlocked some sort of new superhero or superpower stuff like that? So it's like.
- [58:21]
Evan Valenti
Yeah.
- [58:22]
Dan Greenberg
Because I'm a firm believer in bald. Derek is a different player than Derek with hair, so it should be fine. You know, he seems to be willing to be open and fun about it, so I'm sure it'll have, like, anything else. Some. Some growing pains, but I'm excited for the season to start just because, you know, I want to talk real basketball with him and see if what we all talk about and how we interpret certain things about how they play or what they're looking for, is that really sort of how it is with the players and how he views things. So hopefully he has a great year and we have, you know, a lot to talk about, but we'll see.
- [58:58]
Adam Kaufman
Yeah. Before we wrap up, I know there was one other thing that I. I mentioned this was going to be kind of a, like, what's trending with the Celtics this week there. I guess there are a couple things we're not going to spend time on the Tracy McGrady Jason Tatum comp thing.
- [59:12]
Evan Valenti
You know, we.
- [59:12]
Adam Kaufman
We could do that another time. I think it's such a stupid conversation. Not a stupid comparison. A stupid conversation that has come out of that comparison that Tracy McGrady made during his interview. First ballot hall of Famer, seven time All NBA, seven time All Star guy who was out of the league at 33 years old because of injuries and whatnot. People are like, he's disrespecting Jason Tatum. Get your heads out of your ass and self expanse if. If you do. We don't need to even discuss that. What I do want to spend a few minutes on before we wrap up here, Ev, is something else that we saw during the week surrounding Jalen Brown's planned departure from the Boston Celtics, which we could spend an entire show on this if we wanted to. But we'll. We'll do a couple.
- [59:57]
Evan Valenti
I was gonna segue with this. You can ask Derek White if he ever has any plans to go back home to the Denver Nuggets, just like I will. Not that.
- [60:05]
Dan Greenberg
That blood will not be on my hands, I'll tell you that.
- [60:07]
Evan Valenti
There you go. But yeah, I mean, like, that's. That. It's just come out video of him talking about it on a radio station, I think, and down in Atlanta about how. I think there's a point in time in which he wants to reverse Dominique and go from Boston to. To Atlanta, maybe to close out the career. We'll see how it goes. Well, I think people are getting.
- [60:28]
Adam Kaufman
Pushing this.
- [60:30]
Dan Greenberg
Right?
- [60:32]
Evan Valenti
Right. So people get nervous about this because every second of Jalen Brown's life as a South, he's been put into trade discussions every year, every day. And people are obviously going to react to this as. As someone who listens to Brad Stevens. I don't think this is it remotely the table at the moment. I don't think they're even considering moving Jalen down for anybody, especially to Atlanta for whatever the hell they have though. I mean, they have some guys, some say they don't. Jalen Johnson's awesome. He's fantastic. I can't wait to see him come back. But the idea of Jalen playing in Atlanta, I. I get the attraction of that. I just think if people are overreacting to that, I think you got to calm down a little bit. I think Green, maybe I'm reading the situation wrong. This to me doesn't spell out Jalen's trying to leave town. He's trying to out of here. He's trying to force his subjects in. No, I'm pretty sure this the same page ever since the Kevin trade rumor thing where, you know, that's a possibility. Jalen's gonna stay in Boston for a while. And Brad Stevens, I think, wants it that way because they've won a kajillion games with him and Jason Tatum playing together. That's my check. That's kind of the idea.
- [61:47]
Dan Greenberg
Right. I think a couple things go into it. A, the fact that this has basically been like a Celtic summer of like of hell. And it's just like this was just another thing I just didn't need to hear. Right. I just don't need this even in the universe of being a potential one day situation. Because I think what matters is we do live in this new CBA world where I think you and me both want to believe no matter what the foundation is here for, until they decide to, you know, hang up their jerseys and call it a career. But the reality is we don't know what it's going to be like navigating this second ape. So I can't say with 100% certainty that there won't ever be a situation where they need to move off one. Like, if Tatum doesn't come back and he's the same player, do they move off him? If they need Jalen's money to reload the roster because there aren't enough, you know, free agent bodies out there? I mean, we just don't know. So the fact that there's that uncertainty is why I just don't love hearing the fact that, hey, you know, you can't rule it out one day. And even if he was saying it mostly in jest and whatever, his grandma's pushing for it, it was like a. A light hearted conversation. There is a part of my brain that is like, well, I mean, this could be a reality one day just because of the unknown of the future and seeing as how he's now the de facto number one option, blah, blah, blah. It's like, I could have. I would have preferred to be like, hey, I can understand why you might want me in Atlanta, but I'm focused on the Celtics. I'm focused on the season. Like, this is where my mind is at. It's maybe unrealistic to think that answer could come, given the conversation they were having, but just lie to me as a fan. Just say it. Pull a Kyrie Irving and tell me what I want to hear when someone asks you that question, even if you don't believe it, because it's just another thing of gut punches. After all, you know, every update say.
- [63:43]
Adam Kaufman
I'd love to be a Celtic for the rest of my career. You don't have to mean it.
- [63:47]
Evan Valenti
You just say.
- [63:48]
Dan Greenberg
Just say it. Because honestly, every single Celtics update since May 12, 2025 has been a correct kick in my dick and everything is worse than the last. So now I need to fucking if now I need to sort of accept the fact that I have Jalen talking about going somewhere else after everything that we've lost in the last five months. It's like, come on, I'm. We've. We've hurt too much as a fan base to now have this on our plate as well.
- [64:14]
Adam Kaufman
Don't just lie to me, part of this too is. And we'll wrap, but part of this is we've. I don't. We've spent hours on this over years talking about just where we are, right? Salaries, new cba, the league wanting player movement, you know, all like, Jalen Brown is not going to be a career Celtic.
- [64:37]
Dan Greenberg
Jason, I mean, Paul Pierce wasn't a.
- [64:38]
Adam Kaufman
Career Tatum is not going to be a career Celtic. Like, it. It would. I would be. Whereas I expected Paul Pierce to be a career Celtic because obviously he was here for 15 years or whatever it was. And then at the very end, you know, they decided to move on and obviously that worked out, you know, more so probably for Boston than for Paul. But that's just the way it goes. Like, guys do not unless they are willing to take considerable discounts and you're still playing at a level that is good enough to justify you being on the floor and you're willing to take a lesser role. I. E. Like, not a great example, but I'll give you, you know, if. If Ray Allen had said, and he wasn't, obviously, he was far from a career Celtic, but if he had said, I don't want to leave Boston, fine, you're going to move me to the bench, fine. But this is just where I want to be. If guys are willing to be that as they get older. Like, Kevin Garnett eventually was not starting in Minnesota toward the tail end of his career. He was just a leader and a veteran and a motivator and the dude and all of these things that we love about Kevin Garnett. But, you know, father time wins, as the expression goes. Like, you know, there's. You outgrow your abilities over the course of. Of a period of time. And so, like, it's all well and good to, you know, maybe get upset or frustrated about these conversations when a guy is still in his prime, like a Tatum or a Brown. But over the course of time, whether it's after this contract, after the next contract, like, these dudes are going to be gone and they're going to play somewhere else at some point and not be remembered for being with those. Patrick Ewing was a Seattle Sonic. Hakeem Olajuwon played for the Toronto Raptors. Shaquille o' Neal played for every team in the NBA. These guys, they move around. You know, it's. It's just what happens. And so, you know, whereas, like back in the day, as a kid, I certainly would have gotten a little bent out of shape about this type of thing. Now I just Expect it. It's the league. It's the way it works. It's the free agency era. So I, I don't care. Like, I don't want them to leave when they're still great, but they're gonna leave.
- [66:45]
Evan Valenti
You don't think Lamelo Ball's gonna be a Charlotte Hornet forever? Is that what you're telling me?
- [66:50]
Adam Kaufman
I'll tell you what. Bronnie James might be a Laker forever.
- [66:55]
Dan Greenberg
That's true. I do think your, your point about the contract is the biggest factor though, right? Because I wonder if they'll almost make it harder for players to qualify for the supermax where it's like instead of making any all NBA team, maybe you only need to make the. Maybe you have to make first team. Because if you look at it, you could see a guy that makes third all NBA who's, you know, in between 15 and 20, you know, ranked player in the league. Well, if that person qualifies for 65 million a year in the new, you know, by the time they come up for a supermax, based on how that can hamstring you with your roster construction, a team may not want to pay that type of, you know, 15 to 20th ranked player that type of money. It's just like, you know why the Mavs just traded Luca? They didn't want to give him the supermax that he had qualified for. So for me, I look at it like unless they make it harder to obtain that qualification, you're going to see all NBA players move in there. It won't be like a Hakeem on the Raptors. You're going to see a guy in his second or third deal when he's entering his NBA prime ages, switch teams because teams are going to say we have our first team all NBA guy. We can't. We've seen based on other teams who have had second apron restrictions that two supermax players, it's too hard. So we have to only have one. Well, if you go back to the Celtics situation, that could then say, okay, we have to theoretically offer Jaylen this max because if we don't, he'll leave in free agency for nothing. So their hands were tied. So the only thing you can do in that spot is trade them a year early. So I think it's going to be the second apron and the CBA restrictions that are going to, you know, for the guys who aren't the singular franchise like SGA is the guy in okc, maybe when it comes time for Jalen Williams to get his supermax, deal. They won't give it to him and he'll have to be traded. You know, like, there's just so much unknown. But I'm with you. I think it's going to be the salaries and the, the restrictions of the second apron that are going to propel the movement.
- [69:10]
Adam Kaufman
All right, I think it's time. This is a pretty good bounce around show, though. I'm excited to see what next week brings.
- [69:18]
Dan Greenberg
Listen, we're inching closer and closer, so there's more that comes up.
- [69:25]
Adam Kaufman
Theoretically joining the New York Knicks. I guess that's on the table as well, but maybe, maybe for another time. Former sixth man of the year Malcolm Brogdon back on his name.
- [69:34]
Dan Greenberg
He stole it from a Nick. He beat a Nick for that award.
- [69:37]
Adam Kaufman
So you see that everything comes full circle. Rob Schneider once said. All right, thanks to Greeny barstool. Greenie, of course. Now a featured member on the white noise podcast, in addition to a regular here on Celtics beat again. You can check out Celtics beat any other Celtics podcast, part of the CLNS media network, CLNS all access page. We'll find great Celtics content there on that Celtics all access page. Specifically, other content. Celtics, Patriots, Bruins, Red Sox. It's all available to you across the network and we thank you for being part of this show. Rate, review, subscribe. If you download, leave comments on on YouTube, we will see them. Maybe even answer questions like we did Justin's earlier today. For Dan Greenberg, Evan Valenti, I'm Adam Kaufman, everybody have a great weekend. And yeah, it's coming.
- [70:30]
Dan Greenberg
It's coming, baby. We're so close.
- [70:33]
Evan Valenti
We're so close.
- [70:34]
Adam Kaufman
Green's green. He's gonna go fire up.
- [70:37]
Dan Greenberg
I might just have to watch game five again.
- [70:39]
Evan Valenti
Yeah, it's gonna be. It's gonna say some finals game is going on.
- [70:43]
Adam Kaufman
All right, bye.
- [70:44]
Dan Greenberg
All right, guys.
- [70:49]
Evan Valenti
And Doug Limu and I always tell.
- [70:51]
Adam Kaufman
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- [71:09]
Evan Valenti
Only pay for what you need need@liberty mutual.com.
- [71:14]
Dan Greenberg
Savings.
- [71:14]
Evan Valenti
Very underwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company affiliates. Excludes Massachusetts.
- [71:17]
Adam Kaufman
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Evan Valenti
Yep.
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Dan Greenberg
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Adam Kaufman
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- [71:48]
Evan Valenti
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