642: Tatum's Health ISN'T the Biggest Storyline of '25-26? w/ Brian Barrett

Summary

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Celtics Beat Episode 642 Summary

"Tatum's Health ISN'T the Biggest Storyline of '25-26? w/ Brian Barrett"
Date: September 19, 2025 | Host: Adam Kaufman (CLNS Media) | Guest: Brian Barrett (The Ringer/Spotify)

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Episode Overview

This episode unpacks the looming questions around the Boston Celtics' 2025–26 season, especially concerning superstar Jayson Tatum’s Achilles injury and potential return. However, Adam Kaufman, Brian Barrett, and Evan Valenti argue that Tatum's health is not the only—or even the most important—storyline this season. The discussion pivots to the development of the Celtics' supporting cast, coach Joe Mazzulla’s evolution, and the long-term outlook under the stingy new CBA. The show mixes speculative roster talk with honest evaluations, humorous detours, and classic Boston sports banter.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Jayson Tatum’s Injury and Return: Weighing Risks vs. Rewards

• The State of Tatum's Rehab:
  • Barrett revisits ongoing offseason reports, emphasizing the team’s secrecy and Tatum’s silence.
  • “With Jason Tatum, they have gone out of their way to say nothing… any reports you're getting about Jason Tatum are either coming directly from Tatum in random interviews… but he's not held court with the media. Thus far, that hasn't happened yet.” (06:37, Adam Kaufman)
  • Team sources suggest Tatum is serious about recovery, hasn't left Boston much, and is maintaining an intense rehab schedule.
• Should Tatum Return at All in '25-26?
  • The hosts agree the best-case scenario for the franchise may be a full year off for Tatum to avoid risking his long-term health and perhaps securing a high draft pick or trade asset.
  • “Do you think right now [the Celtics] could [by] bringing Tatum back from an Achilles injury, can they win a championship? ...No.” (10:45–10:54, Adam Kaufman to Brian Barrett)
  • Barrett highlights that Tatum’s presence makes Boston attractive to stars, but a lottery pick or trade asset could be critical for the next title window.

2. Why Tatum’s Health Isn’t the Biggest Storyline

• Shifting the Focus to Player Development
  • Evan Valenti and Barrett assert the more important story this year is about the rest of the roster and its development under Missoula.
  • “I'm way more concerned about, you know, Ugo Gonzalez and what he looks like with a, with some rest after a tough season in Europe. I'm way more interested in Canmas K to become an actual full time big man.” (14:31, Evan Valenti)
  • The pressing questions: Who among the young players—Hugo González, Baylor Scheierman, Josh Minott, Jordan Walsh—can become rotation fixtures?
• Depth Under the New CBA
  • “You need some young players that are on cheaper contracts… it's so important that some of these younger players… actually hit. I'm not saying it's star level players, but can you be in an eight man rotation going forward?” (17:43, Adam Kaufman)
• Ancillary Storylines
  • Valenti stresses the team already knows its core (Brown, White, Pritchard) but must discover which supporting players are keepers for the next window.

3. Joe Mazzulla’s Pivotal Year as Celtics Coach

• Room to Grow Despite a Title
  • Both hosts agree that, though Missoula is a champion, he has plenty to prove — particularly in adapting schemes and in-game decisions.
  • “He's never coached a team that wasn't one of the favorites to win the NBA championship… but I feel like Missoula has stuff to prove this year.” (27:07, Adam Kaufman)
• Last Playoff Critiques
  • “...Last postseason, Missoula was bad. Like there's no way around it... Not to mention the fact that Porzingis was banged up and he kept going back to him. I felt bad for Porzingis, but what are you doing, right?” (28:42, Brian Barrett)
  • Shows concern with his stubborn deployment of double-bigs vs. NY and managing minutes for key role players.
• Coaching Context
  • “I just think sometimes… because he won a title, he puts him at a different place. But he's only coached three seasons… we have to give him the opportunity to learn…” (34:01, Evan Valenti)
  • Discussion on the importance of assistant coaches—especially given the loss of veterans like Jeff Van Gundy and Charles Lee and the need for staffers who challenge Missoula.

4. National vs. Local Storylines

• National Media Obsession vs. Local Priorities
  • “Every time you get a little crumb of that [Tatum] story, it's going to be the overarching story… Locally, it's not even the story with the biggest impact.” (24:05–25:52, Adam Kaufman)
  • Internally, the focus is development, figuring out the big-man rotation, and prepping for a post-Tatum-injury era.

5. Offbeat and Entertaining Tangents

• Basketball Hall of Fame Debate
  • A spontaneous, lively back-and-forth about the inclusiveness of the Basketball Hall of Fame (“Is Dennis Schroder a Hall of Famer?”), featuring comparisons with Dino Radja and Dwight Howard.
  • “The Basketball hall of Fame is a joke... Why isn't there just like a Feeba hall of Fame or something? There is. It should not be the same hall of Fame. It makes absolutely no sense.” (47:21, Adam Kaufman)
• Uncle Dennis Sidebar
  • Humorous detour into Uncle Dennis (Kawhi Leonard's uncle/manager) and his reputation as an NBA “legend.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• The Tatum Dilemma
  • “I do not think it's a good idea for Jason Tatum to play this season. I am not a doctor... But I just don't think it is the worst thing in the world for Jayson Tatum to have the full year and the full off season.” — Brian Barrett (12:42)
• The Real Stakes
  • "This whole season is not about Jason Tatum at all. This whole season is about everybody else." — Evan Valenti (14:31)
  • “They need some of these young guys to hit… can two of those three [young players] be in an eight-man rotation going forward?” — Adam Kaufman (17:43)
• On Missoula’s Growth
  • “I think [Missoula] deserves a lot of credit for the things that he does. But there's also been these moments... I just feel like, as crazy as it sounds for a guy that is a championship coach, I think there's still things that he has to prove.” — Adam Kaufman (32:21)
• Celtics' Internal Focus
  • “Which one of you guys is going to be part of the next championship run? I think we already know Pritchard, Jalen, and Derek… but other than that, it's a bunch of question marks.” — Evan Valenti (26:34)
• On Role Player Development
  • “If Scheierman can prove he can hit threes consistently… And Hugo Gonzalez, I'm fascinated to see him play just because the athleticism does jump off.” — Adam Kaufman (17:43, expanded)
• Missoula’s Job Security
  • “Joe's got a long rope here and, like, he deserves it.” — Adam Kaufman (39:50)
• Hall of Fame Tangent
  • “Is Dennis Schroeder a Hall of Famer was not a conversation, guys, that I was prepared to see entertained on social media.” — Adam Kaufman (46:07)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 02:02 – Episode kickoff, season expectations, Barrett joins
• 06:36 – Transition from Red Sox injury management to Celtics' secretive approach with Tatum
• 09:35 – Debate: Should Celtics or Tatum push for a return this season?
• 12:42 – Barrett/Valenti candidly admit they’d get caught up in “Tatum is back!” fever if a return seemed imminent
• 14:31 – Valenti firmly: “The season isn’t about Tatum; it’s about everyone else”
• 17:43 – Roster development: Importance of cheap, young role players
• 25:52 – Media focus: National vs. local Celtics narratives
• 27:07 – Missoula’s growth, evaluating the staff, his stubbornness with lineups
• 34:01 – “We forget how green Missoula still is as a head coach” (Valenti)
• 39:50 – C’s front-office trust in Missoula, importance of assistants
• 47:21 – Hall of Fame digression, Basketball Hall vs. NBA Hall, Dwight Howard snub
• 56:14 – Wrap-up and final thoughts

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Episode Tone and Style

The tone is candid, wry, and deeply Boston: panelists aren’t afraid to poke fun, push back, or monologue passionately. The hosts sprinkle in “hot takes,” friendly jabs, and touches of nostalgia (plus plenty of baseball, Hall of Fame, and NBA pop culture nods).

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Conclusion

This lively episode argues that the Celtics’ true 2025–26 drama isn’t Tatum’s health, but discovering which young players and strategies will define the team’s future. While national chatter will fixate on Tatum’s Achilles, the real action—and hope—for Boston centers around player development, Joe Mazzulla’s adaptability, and mastering team-building under the new CBA. If you’re hungry for more than surface-level Celtics talk, this episode delivers context, skepticism, and genuine excitement for the franchise’s evolution.

Transcript

[Adam Kaufman]

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[Brian Barrett]

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[Adam Kaufman]

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[Brian Barrett]

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[Evan Valenti]

Visit JD Power.com awards for more details.

[Brian Barrett]

Chevrolet together, let's drive. Today's Friday, September 19th and this is Celtics Beat on the CLNS Media Network, the leading online provider of audio video coverage of the Boston Celtics. I'm Adam Kaufman. Episode 642 features the Ringer and Spotify's Brian Barrett.

[Evan Valenti]

And I'm Evan Valenti. And today's show is powered by Prize Picks. Prize Picks is the official daily fantasy partner of CLNS Media. Download the app today, use the promo code CLNS and get $50 in lineups when you play. $5.

[Brian Barrett]

Hey everybody, welcome in another edition of Celtics Beat. Here we are, mid September rapidly approaching media day and preseason games, training camp obviously. And then in the blink of an eye, it'll be time for the season. And what will we get when we get there? That has been the focus on of a lot of these shows over the summer. Adam Kaufman, Evan Valenti, we are always here with you. I guess I hesitate on always. Sometimes I do take a little time in the summer. But I'm here. I'm here and I'm thrilled to be here. It's the fall, baby, so we're locked in. Brian Barrett joins us. He hosts the off the pike podcast for the Ringer. He is on Twitter at. It's Brian Barrett, good friend of the program. We have him on as often as we can, obviously. Barrett, how are you, buddy?

[Adam Kaufman]

I'm doing well. I'd be doing a lot better right now if the Red Sox didn't want to take years off my life. Brian Bale throwing four innings, unprofessional outing. The Red Sox lose on Wednesday. They lose two of three to the A's. They can't win since Roman Anthony went down. And the guardians are 13 and 2 since Roman Anthony went down. It's like they found out, hey, the 21 year old superstar is gone, we have a chance to make the playoffs. So to answer your question, I'd be doing a lot better if it wasn't for the Red Sox right now.

[Brian Barrett]

Well, as we sit here on a Friday, Garrett Crochet is on the mound tonight. So hopefully he can be the stopper that he is, the ace that he is, the potential Cy Young winner that he should be. But he know it's true. Like this is obviously not the clns Red Sox podcast or anything like that, but to, to take a moment, you're right. Like well under.500 since Roman Anthony went down and clearly have forgotten how to hit. Can't deliver runners and scoring position, all that stuff. But what's really weird about it, Barrett, I'm sure you've spent time on this on your show because you cover all sports, Boston based. I just, I don't understand how one guy, when it's Roman Anthony, it's not, you know, Shohei Otani. I don't understand how one guy makes that big a difference in what is, you know, this isn't football, this isn't basketball, this isn't hockey. Like largely, baseball is an individual sport. You know, for the most part it's individual achievements carry the day. And the fact that one guy and, and he's been awesome. I'm excited about the Roman Anthony era. Era. And I'm, I'm glad that he signed to the long term deal and all this stuff, but the fact that they have just completely gone on the toilet offensively since he went down, it really doesn't make sense to me.

[Adam Kaufman]

Yeah, well, I think it's a couple of things. First of all, like he did solidify the leadoff spot, which was huge and he was starting to slug right before he went down. So they keep switching off who's hitting leadoff depending on if it's a lefty or righty on the mount. So that's the first thing. The other thing is William Breu has been injured this whole time as well. You could certainly use him to hit against right handed pitching, right? We heard, hey, we don't think it's that serious. Well, now it's a month later. Hey, he's finally working out and maybe he'll play this week and, oh, no, maybe next week, right? I mean, I never believe the Red Sox as it pertains to injuries. They're just a joke when it comes to that. So he's been out of the lineup. He still has the second most home runs on the team and he's missed a month. The only guy that's hitting right now consistently for the Red Sox since Roman Anthony went down is Trevor Story. And I know that he made two errors in the game on Wednesday. Trevor Story has been essentially the MVP of the team as it pertains to consistency. He's been one of the best players in the sport since the start of June. I mean, he's hovering around top 15 in war since that particular point in time. And if you look at the numbers from June till now, like he is first in RBIs, first in runs, first in hits, like by a wide margin on the Red Sox and all those categories. Duran hasn't been good and you needed him to step up when Roman Anthony went down. Bregman has been miserable in the month of September. And my theory on that is, I think it's his legs. I mean, you look at it, the ground ball rate has gone up like 13 percentage points. So he was dealing with this quad situation. I think the plan was, hey, Meyer's gonna spell him like every third game and he could dh, right? And then unfortunately Meyer went down. So I think that has actually had an effect on Bregman because you need to play him at third base every day coming back from that injury. And then. So Bregman's not hitting. Rafael has been the worst hitter in baseball essentially since the All Star break. He was hot going into the break. He's been terrible. You got to the point where he had to pinch hit for him the other day, which made sense from Corey's perspective. So that's the answer is like the only guy hitting is Story. That's it. And like the guys, like the, the platoon guys, right? Romy's hitting a little bit and Ref Snider can hit coming off the bench. And like some of these role players, Eaton, so Guard have been decent, but the Guys, you need the Durans, the Bregmans of the world. They're nowhere to be found.

[Brian Barrett]

Well, it's been this week's Red Sox beat. We appreciate everybody tuning in. And it's. It. No, it is funny, though. I can't wait till Trevor story ops out of his contract.

[Evan Valenti]

There's.

[Brian Barrett]

How's that for a hot take? It is funny, though, that you say, like, I, I can never trust the Red Sox when it comes to injuries and on and on and on because honestly, for how long did we say that about the Boston Celtics? And at the center of all of it, obviously, is Jason Tatum. I don't think this has been a thing in even recent years, last couple few years, you know, I don't think the, the, the general public has been misled in the way that it felt it was for so long, especially when, like, Doc Rivers was here, many of those Danny Ainge years, turnover in medical staff, all that, you know, under Brad. And with Joe, it's, you know, the approach has changed a little bit. And I highlight that because with Jason Tatum, they have gone out of their way to say nothing. You know, any reports you're getting about Jason Tatum are either coming directly from Tatum in random interviews that he does, you know, because he hops on a podcast or shows up at a, an event, but he's not, you know, held court with the media. Thus far, that hasn't happened yet. But there was this one thing during the week, courtesy of the Sports Hub, where I guess Joe Missoula had a, had a dinner with the, the midday guys that he goes on with every week, and they went out and they were, you know, just kind of casually talking, enjoying themselves. And there, the report I put in, quote, fingers from the midday show after that dinner was that Jason Tatum is, you know, really focused and, and taking this rehab very seriously. And he hasn't left Boston aside from maybe a little trip, but he continues all the extensive workouts and everything that he's doing along the way. I mean, no, like, earth news from it other than to say the Celtics are still at least internally, it seems like leaving this door ajar. As far as the Jayson Tatum return, I know on this show, Ev, we've had a lot of conversations about, you know, with Gary Washburn, for instance, can Jason Tatum beat science? And what's the best case scenario? Could this guy actually be back in January, February, let alone not coming back at all? And so there's this wide range of outcomes, including, by the way, the what do we want to see right what makes the most sense for Tatum and for the organization? Is there even Barrett, a point in Tatum coming back in this upcoming year? So I'm just curious because I'm sure it's been a talking point on your show as well. Where do you fall in the Jason Tatum conversation in terms of, okay, if he is, I. I don't want to say healthy enough, because obviously if he's healthy enough, you know, you could justify it. But how do we determine that? What's 100%? What's 90, yada yada? But if this guy feels like he really wants to do it and he can make an impact and he is not worried about coming back and playing in potential late season meaningful games, maybe even a playoff run, should the organization protect its investment and stand in the way?

[Adam Kaufman]

Well, I think I said last time when I came on the show, my whole thing is, hey, it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world if you got a lottery pick, right? I mean, you're going to need a young player to go along with Tatum and whatever the core is going forward for the next couple years. I mean, we've seen the Thunder hit on so many lottery picks over the years. The Jalen Williams of the world, that was a great pick for them, right? I mean, obviously, Chet, that's an obvious pick at number two. I mean, you could debate it, but he was going to be an obvious good player. So my thing is. All right, well, are you going to get a younger player to play with Tatum long term via trade? Maybe. Like, they're going to have to figure out and give Brad Stevens credit. I mean, he's been able to turn this team around multiple times. The Porzingis trade, the Drew trade. So I still think that's the case, but the more and more you hear about this, I just think he's going to come back at some point next season. Going all the way back. Like, all the reporting around it, to your point, has been really good. Like, hey, he got it within like 10 hours. So we avoided the swelling. Right. The best Achilles surgeon in the country was there in New York, so they could just take Tatum there. So I just feel like it's trending in that direction where at some point he's going to come back next season. I don't know if that's what's in the best interest of the organization long.

[Brian Barrett]

Term because, well, you sound just made while you say that. You sound like you don't want that to happen.

[Adam Kaufman]

Well, I'm just saying, like, do you think right now they're they could bringing Tatum back from an Achilles injury. Can they win a championship? Do you guys think they can next year?

[Brian Barrett]

No.

[Adam Kaufman]

So that's my point. It's like, all right, at this point, I know this sounds like sort of like it's. It's like a weird, weird place to be in where it's like, the Celtics are at this spot now because they've been so, so close so many years, and they won it two years ago. It does really feel like they're at a point organizationally where it's championship or bust. And this does kind of feel like a reset year and if the best avenue to improve because, like, the other thing is if you get. If you end up in the lottery, and I'm not convinced they're going to end up in the lottery even if Tatum doesn't come back. But I'm just saying, hypothetically, if they end up in a lot in the lottery situation, if Jalen has to miss a couple of weeks or something along those lines and you go on an extended losing streak that the Celtics haven't done in recent history, you could also use that chip as a trade, right, where you can be in the market for a disgruntled star. Because I do think Tatum's an attractive guy to play with, right? Because he's a very unselfish superstar. I mean, who covers centers in the. During the regular season. Like, we see Anthony Davis doesn't even want to play the five. Like, he wants to play. He doesn't want to play the five, and he's an actual center. Jason Tatum's like, yeah, dude, opening night, you want me to cover Carl Anthony Towns? I'm in. Or Drew Holiday would do it, too. But, I mean, Tatum's a little bit different because Tatum's a superstar in the league. Not to mention the fact, like, Tatum will be the screener. Like, Tatum will screen for you. Tatum, heck, he'll set off ball screen. So I just think it's going to be an attractive destination for guys to want to come play with Tatum. So, yeah, it's a tough position to be in because obviously I want to see Jason Tatum play, and I'm just like, nah, what if you get the. The lottery balls go your way and you somehow end up with, like, a top 10 pick? And this is a loaded draft as well, and who knows what you could do with that?

[Brian Barrett]

You know what's great about this, Ev. And I wonder how many people are going to fall into the same category. And, like, September 19th, I'm saying it right now so people can go back, you can review the tape episode, whatever, 6:42, you can go back, you can review this. Because I know myself well enough. I do not think it's a good idea for Jason Tatum to play this season. I am not a doctor. I don't have any medical insights. I just going off of everything you have read about guys coming back from these injuries and timelines and, you know, trying to be the best version of yourself after the fact and all of that. I don't think it is the worst thing in the world for Jayson Tatum to have the full year and the full off season and be ready for opening night come 2627. However, if it is January, February and the Celtics are handful of games over 500, very much in the mix for top six in the east, avoid the play in tournament, that sort of thing. Looks like maybe they got a little something. Brown's having a great year, White's having a great year. Pritchard's having a great year. My guy Anthony Simons is looking like he belongs. This team looks like it could maybe if it gets to the playoffs without Jason Tatum, be a tough out in the first round. I'm not talking about be a contender, like, oh, you know what? This team could win around. This team could actually maybe do something just based on how it exists right now. And then we start to get those reports. Tatum's close. Tatum's close. We might March Mid March, March 15th. That's what we're looking at for a Jason Tatum return. I am going to be sitting here on this show going, championship is back on. Here we go, baby. Tatum's coming back. I'm excited. That's what I'm gonna sound like. I know it. I, I, I'm gonna be a complete and total hypocrite about it.

[Evan Valenti]

The thing that gets me nervous about that stuff is like just playing in the playoffs. I don't want him anywhere near playoff basketball unless he's 120% because it's a whole different sport. It's a whole different animal. The contact of intensity, the physicality is all different. Like if you want to, I've said this before, if you want to try to Tatum out at the end of the season when they're playing Charlotte and Washington and whatever, like, yeah, I'm cool with that, that's fine. Like, great. But unless he's 100%, I don't want him anywhere near the playoffs. They really don't. And again, it's one of these things where you, you, you have to take the 3,000, a 30,000 foot view of this whole thing and say like this, this whole season, this whole season is not about Jason Tatum at all. This whole season is about everybody else. Like they, they already know what they have in, in, in Derrick White and in Jalen Brown. Although Jalen, I'd like to see a little bit more this year like with his playmaking ability. But they know what they have in a few guys. They know what they have in Peyton Pritchard, Sam Houser. But this is all about the rest of the ancillary guys. Not even like the turkey. Yeah. And the head coach. It's, there's a lot at stake here. So I think is as much as this carrot is going to be dangled in front of us for the entire season, I, I'm not even looking at it. I'm not even acknowledging it. I'm way more concerned about, you know, Ugo Gonzalez and what he looks like with a, with some rest after a tough season in Europe. I'm way more interested in Canmas K to become an actual full time big man. What does Josh Minot look like? Can, can Baylor Shireman outside of summer league exist as a, as a key cog in the machine or what is Jordan Walsh give you? Like all those storylines to me are way more important than Jason Tatum coming back this year. I just don't understand. I mean we have the infatuation because he's a top ex player in the league, he's a superstar, he's an NBA champion, he's, he's all these things. I, I, I'm almost like dude, like I, I hope that you, we get updates because I'm, you know, obviously thirsty for content. I mean look at how much traction NBA media circles have gotten out of Jonathan Kaminga this summer. Think about that. We're still in September talking about whether Jonathan Kabinga, who doesn't matter on the, the Golden State warriors. So he's going to sign a qualifying.

[Adam Kaufman]

Offer.

[Evan Valenti]

Design a long term contract. It's assigned like we have no idea who cares. It's Jonathan Kaminga.

[Adam Kaufman]

It's not that big of a deal.

[Brian Barrett]

That's who cares.

[Evan Valenti]

Yeah, well that's that, that's the only, only reason why I would care about that storyline because it sounds like Alfred's going to go. I, I, I trust Jason Tatum to know his body better than anybody else. He's been a freak his entire time in the NBA. He's rarely gotten hurt and when he's gotten hurt he's bouncing back very quickly. Will he break science?

[Adam Kaufman]

I don't know.

[Evan Valenti]

But it's just this storyline to me doesn't matter at all. Like the, the Celtics will continue to function as an organization and the other things that are around this team are so much more important than Jason Tatum coming back from this injury. I, I, I have faith that he will come back and be a similar player. I don't think he's going to be a ghost of himself. He's gonna come back and be, I think pretty good considering all the evidence we have. But Barrett, to me, all the other stuff dwarfs what this Tatum story is, in my opinion.

[Adam Kaufman]

Yeah, I think it's so important that some of these younger players you mentioned, two of them, Shireman and Hugo Gonzalez, like actually hit. I'm not saying it's star level players, but can you be in an eight man rotation going forward? Right. Because this new CBA that we've talked about so much like you need some young players that are on cheaper contracts. And I think the biggest thing with Shireman as crazy as downs, considering his profile, he's going to prove he can hit threes consistently. Right. And I know some of the ones in the summer league, the percentage wasn't great. I know some of those are of the pull up variety. I get that. Like he's not going to be taking a ton of pull up threes when the Celtics are actually playing regular season games. Right. I do think there's a little bit more to his game than I expected as it pertains to like his ability to run a, like his numbers at college were great in this so maybe I should have expected it. But as operators pick and roll ball handler. So I'm interested on I thought his defense was better than expected and I will say this, like he has really good instincts, like very good instincts. And Hugo Gonzalez, I'm fascinated to see him play just because the athleticism does jump off. I mean he, we all know, I think we talked about it, the massive hands that he has. So I'm going to see, I'm interested to see how he develops as a player. And circling back to Tatum here and Jordan Walsh, like I've kind of just given up on him and maybe that's wrong. Although it was odd. I don't know how this happened. The other night I had a dream that he was like shutting down Trey Young in a game. I don't know how that came into my head. The only thing I come up with is like I was watch, I was seeing all this back and forth with Trey Young and Pat Beverly. So, like, I don't know how this happened, but like Jordan Walsh, I mean.

[Brian Barrett]

I kind of find like, you know, when I'm sitting there doom scrolling in bed before I go to sleep, which you absolutely shouldn't do. I. You, you know, if I'm watching highlights of a guy or reading whatever on Twitter, like, usually that stuff filters into the dreams. Maybe right before that you were, you were highlights of Jordan Walsh, right?

[Adam Kaufman]

So. Well, I get the Trey Young portion of it, but I don't get how Jordan Walsh came into the dream. But it would be great if that guy could be like this defender. Like not to compare him to Tatum, but like he could cover so many positions if he actually hit. I'm just at the point now where it hasn't happened yet and like it probably should have happened by now where he could have been a contributor in the rotation even though, I mean he's significantly younger than Shireman. So if two of those three guys hit, that's really good for like building this thing long term for the organization in terms of, hey, you got solid pieces that, I mean in the case of Walsh, you'd have to eventually decide if you're going to resign them, but like pretty good contracts that those guys are on. The one thing I will say to circling back to Tatum, I do believe all this stuff about him, like, because why wouldn't we believe it, right? That's who he's been his entire career. He's one of the, like, he's a relentless worker. I'm just interested to see what he comes back with because I think like his mid range numbers are bad. I totally understand that, but I don't see a reason like he shouldn't be a great mid range shooter. He takes a ton of pull up threes and I get why he does that, right? I mean it's not just him taking the shot, it's oh, the center is out by me. If it doesn't go in, we have offensive rebounding opportunities. I understand all that stuff. I just feel like if he worked on his mid range game like he worked in his post game and it's really good now he can bully defenders down there. Like, and I know mid range isn't the analytical way to do things, but they're kind of important in the postseason, right? Like I. What Kevin Durant has done and I mean Kawhi Leonard's in the news for other reasons, but he was a great mid range shooter in his prime. Like, I certainly think that he could get to that level where that's a consistent shot for him. Why not?

[Brian Barrett]

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[Evan Valenti]

Kaufman Flex play. I'm two for two this year so far. I haven't so for people that are trying to why do I love flex Play so much? Because if I hit two out of three, I don't lose any money. That's the biggest takeaway, right? I, I don't. Kaufman, are you on this too? Like, if you, if you push, that's kind of a win because you didn't lose any money.

[Brian Barrett]

I'm not, I'm not gonna lie to you. I generally go for the whole thing, sure. But, but, but that's just because like, you know, hey, I mean, I'm not necessarily looking for the, what you might call in gambling push protection. I, I, I want, I want the whole kitten caboodle. I'm trying to go three for three for three, baby.

[Evan Valenti]

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[Brian Barrett]

Okay. So yeah, the Giants defense isn't very good. He should be able to get to one yard, I think.

[Evan Valenti]

You think it'll be all right. So with that in mind, we're also going to take on a couple others. Bijan robinson More than 80.5 rushing yards. Now, Kaufman, you got the people that are listening to this, they don't know Adam and I were talking pre, pre read about Bijan versus the Carolina Panthers. Folks, the Carolina Panthers defense stinks. Let's just ride that wave. And then I'm gonna go with old friend Jacoby Myers. More than five and a half receptions. I think with Brian being hurt, I like Myers to step up, get a little more of that volume again. Flex Play. Hit all three. It's three x. You get two out of three. It's one x. That's not a loss in my opinion. Okay. And getting your money from Prize Fix could not be any easier. Little as 15 minutes, watch the money roll into your account. Venmo is the best way to do it, but debit card, bank wire, whatever you want to do. Prize Picks does that for you.

[Brian Barrett]

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[Adam Kaufman]

Yes.

[Brian Barrett]

Our media network. 50 bucks in lineups for you right after playing your very first lineup for only $5. Prize picks run your game back here on Celtics Beat, we have Brian Barrett from the Ringer here with us again. Host the off the pike podcast. Make sure you check it out. The ringer, Spotify and so on. So, you know, I think just to build upon what we were talking about with Jason Tatum and going off of what f brought up as well sort of in I don't want to put the pie together, so to speak, and, and rank things and what have you. But I, I do think Ev alluded to something interesting. This Jason Tatum story, the will he won't he of it all is going to continue to be something that locally as well, but most especially on a national level. Every time you, you get a little crumb of that story, it's going to be the overarching story that surrounds the Boston Celtics because again, superstar, top five borderline anyway player in the league. We'll see what he comes back as whenever he comes back. But that's always going to be like nationally, you know, on first take or whatever. They're going to talk about Jason Tatum and, and will he be back and what's that do for the Celtics? They're not going to talk about Ugo Gonzalez and Jordan Walsh and you know, Amari Williams and these guys and you know, what's the big man rotation in Boston? They could give a crap because again, it's, you know, you're appealing to the masses and so you're dealing with the superstars. Ev says he doesn't care about the biggest story surrounding the Boston Celtics nationally, locally. And when I say that, I don't mean on the radio because that's kind of the same thing. You're appealing to fans internally, inside that organization, in the walls and Brad Stevens, Mike Zarins, Joe Missoula's offices. What are the big storylines this season is Jason Tatum under the radar and figure it out if it comes to pass across that bridge when we get there. Not a big deal. What are their focuses?

[Evan Valenti]

I mean, I think it's a lot to do with just how this team continues to function off of Missoula Ball and figure out again, how these guys, whether it's, you know, the Walshes, the. The Shiremans, the Gonzalez is, the, you know, even the Housers, the Anthony Simons, like all these other pieces. What. Who on this team right now is going to actually stick around for the next championship run? Like, that's, to me, the most. The biggest thing they have to talk about Simons. To me, we've been talking about Simons forever. It was nice to see him in something with a Celtics logo on it. We've gotten a little bit of some. Some. Some pictures of him at the. At the facilities with some. Some green on, which is nice.

[Adam Kaufman]

I find.

[Brian Barrett]

You saw what that did for freaking. What's his name was already gone. Who sat courtside for the WNBA game when that was.

[Evan Valenti]

Well, that. That's. That we all kind of knew that Yang was not going to be sticking around.

[Brian Barrett]

Thank you.

[Evan Valenti]

Yeah, I mean, still haven't had an announcement about Anthony Simons and him coming aboard here, but I'm sure we'll get a little more clarity on that when media day rolls around. But it's about who would. Which one of you guys is going to be part of the next championship run? I think we already know Pritchard's going to be there. We know Jalen's going to be there. I know Derek's going to be there. But other than that, we. It's a.

[Adam Kaufman]

It's.

[Evan Valenti]

It's a bunch. It's. It's a bunch of question marks. I mean, if. If Simon's Does. We had this conversation a little while ago, like, what if Simon sticks around? Like, what if this contract's up? They're like, yeah, let's find a way to get this done. Maybe we can bring him back and be the sixth man. I've been thinking about this. The Celtics have produced the last two, six men of the year with Malcolm Brogdon and Pate Pritchard, like, back to back, basically right. With those two guys. Obviously the first guy off the bench. The Celtics is a really important position that can get you some notoriety, maybe get you paid, depending where who you are, what. What type of. Type of part of your. Your NBA career you're at. Like, if I'm Simons, I'm Looking at this thing and being like, man, this is going to be an awesome opportunity for me to come off two out of three.

[Brian Barrett]

I had. I had to double check that. Nas Reed.

[Evan Valenti]

Yeah, I knew there was one in the middle of it and not read rules. Yeah. But it's just one of those things where it's like, this is a. An opportunity that has been fruitful for guys recently. I could be the next guy in that lineup. And it just so happens that his contracts could be coming up at the end of the season, and it could parlay him into. For the stratosphere. You know, I. I'm very obviously curious on how this Tatum thing goes. I'm not trying to poo poo it, but it's just there's so many other, bigger points on this thing, and Simon's might be right in the center of it. I don't know. We'll see as things shake out the beginning part of the season, but it's all about these ancillary guys and how they. They fit Joe Missoula's picture and Brad Stevens's picture for the next version of this team that goes. That competes for titles.

[Brian Barrett]

What do you think?

[Adam Kaufman]

Sorry, guys. Yeah, sorry. My Internet dropped out for a second there. But yeah, going back to the. Your original question about, like, what's. What they're thinking about entering the season, Pretty much, like, what's on their checklist. I agree with Valenti on a lot of that. That with Anthony Simons. I'm interested to see him. I mean, there's a lot of David Ortiz in his game in the past where he's kind of a dh, so we'll see. Like, you got to play defense for Missoula. Right? Like, we've seen that. They. They've never really had a lot of defensive liabilities, but I'll turn it on this. Like, I know he's won a championship, obviously, right. But I feel like Missoula has stuff to prove this year. He's never coached a team that wasn't, like, one of the favorites to win the NBA championship. And I thought they did a lot of good things in the playoff run two years ago. But you can also say, like, look at that team, right? Like, the reason you could try all those things is because of the versatility you had on the defensive end with Tatum, not to mention a guy like Drew Holiday. Like, that defensive backcourt was the best in the league, and Drew could guard up. Right. So I felt like he had a lot of flexibility when it came to that. And then you flip Forward to last postseason, Missoula was bad. Like there's no way around it. There's no way that he should have been playing double bigs against the Knicks. That's not how you beat him. This isn't like second guessing. We were saying it in real time. Not to mention the fact that Porzingis was banged up and he kept going back to him. I felt bad for Porzingis, but what are you doing, right? And then the game that you win, Pritchard plays unbelievably well and then you cut down his minutes. Like the way to beat the Knicks was to play fast, was to put Pritchard on the floor more, was to take two bigs off the floor and he's stuck in that way to play two bigs. So now you look at this roster and you say it's really difficult to see them being a top 15 defense this year. Right? Considering the big man situation. Unless to Valenti's point, like we find out, hey, maybe Kate is a real center. I don't think that he's going to be a guy that you trust any more than being like the third center on a good team. That's just, I feel like he's great energy and all that. It just feels like defensively sometimes he just gets lost, like he doesn't know what he's doing at times. So I think that's an issue with him. Feel like he chases blocks a little bit too much. And I'm not saying I dislike him as a player. I'm just, I feel like he's an energy big, more so than anything else off the bench. So what can he do with this team defensively? Because I think offensively they'll be fine. Like I, I think they're, they're going to bomb threes. Like they're going to go into that more so than they ever had in the past, considering. You got Pritchard, you got Simons. Derrick White has now established himself as one of the best three point shooters in the league. So I think they'll get up a ton of threes. But I'm really interested to see what Missoula can do with this team because, I mean, maybe I'm overreacting, but like I couldn't believe how stubborn he was last year in the postseason. I mean, that was bad.

[Brian Barrett]

Is that isolated to a series or have you found yourself regularly questioning him along the way? And I asked that not to like dump on Joe Missoula. I, I think, well, I'll speak for Evan. I. Anyway, I guess I won't, you know, make it a full Syracuse triumvirate here. Evan, I are in the Missoula fan club. Not to say he's infallible, but, you know, we like Missoula. We're not calling for his head or anything like that. But as you well know, there are a lot of people out there that do not believe in Joe Missoula, that think they want a championship in spite of Joe Missoula. They think they, you know, their, their successes, you know, really very little to do with him and more about what's on the floor. So was did that series bring. Because I don't disagree with anything you said about that series. We were questioning him in real time as well. But did that series, you know, bring certain things to a head for you, or do you continue to believe in him going forward?

[Adam Kaufman]

So, like, I don't discredit him for the championship and say the team won in spite of him. I think he did some really good things that year. Like, I referenced Tatum guarding centers earlier, right? Like, and you need the player to do that, but you also need the coaches to get the buy in from the player and to come up with the idea. And then secondarily, like, I always thought, like their transition defense was basically the best in the league by the number was in most statistical categories. And I think the reason for that is because he always had the bigs at the top, right? Because. And now you need guys like Horford and Porzingis that can stretch the floor. But that's why their transition defense was so good, because of things that Missoula did. And going back to last year, he said, hey, let's crash the boards more from the corners. And with Pritchard on the floor, they were basically the best offensive rebounding team in the league. And who knew you could do that by just having your point guard go after rebound? So I think he deserves a lot of credit for the things that he does. But there's also been these moments in his short tenure like last year against the Knicks, and I would even go back to his first season, and that was a very difficult spot that he was put in, clearly, right? I mean, you're taking over for IME right before the season. But guys, how many times did we have to watch a game where Derrick White wasn't on the court and Marcus Smart was to close the game? Like, those are head scratching. And maybe it was, maybe it was, hey, this is a battle I rather fight in the playoffs and if I do it now, maybe something goes wrong. With Marcus and I lose him or something along those lines. But it just didn't make sense that Derrick White wasn't closing games. And that Miami series was a weird series as well. I mean, it goes on the players too. But I just feel like, as crazy as it sounds for a guy that is a championship coach, I think there's still things that he has to prove, like, let's see what he can do with this team.

[Evan Valenti]

I think what's weird is we.

[Adam Kaufman]

Just.

[Evan Valenti]

Because he won a title, he puts him at a different place. But he's only coached three seasons, so I think he's a super seasoned veteran. It's not like he's. He's bounced around the league and this is his. It's not like a Frank Vogel or. Or who just took over the Mike Brown. He's like. He's not.

[Brian Barrett]

Not. Not even. Just that ev. Sorry to cut you off, but, you know, he's coached three NBA seasons. Never even been a top assistant coach in the NBA the whole second row Joe stuff, obviously. And you know, when he did coach, you know, as a head coach, that was what, Division 2 in college, like Frontier or whatever.

[Adam Kaufman]

Not.

[Brian Barrett]

Yeah, he's not had this prolific coaching career at any level. You know, he's not, you know, like, you hear about those guys, oh, all the success overseas, and then they come over and they try out the NBA, you know, David Blatter, you know, somebody like that, like Joe Missoula is. And I think he would admit this, not that we know him personally, but I think he is very much, you know, knowing that he's having to prove himself along the way. Hell, he's. He's younger than I am.

[Evan Valenti]

Yeah. Hell, me and Barrett watched him when he played for West Virginia when we were in college. It's not like we're not aware of. I just think sometimes, and I've been like, pounding the. This is a huge year for Joe Missoula bandwagon. But I think even in that argument that I have gone through a ton on this show. I do think that I do forget that this is. He's number four for Joe. Like, there are moments in time where he, like, he doesn't have it figured out all the way yet. The early success obviously gives him a little bit of a pass. But at the same time, this is someone who hasn't really coached a ton of games. He's won a lot of games that he's coached in. Yeah, but he hasn't really coached a ton. So there's still kind of so much to learn with him that even when I keep banging the table of like, with the current landscape the NBA, there's no coach that's safe outside of Eric Spoelster. Like, there's no coach that has. Has it full immunity or anything like that. Like, even though he won a title, he would not shock me if Joe Missoula, out of the Rocky year, got fired because of all these firings that have happened. I think even in the argument, I do forget that he's really still kind of a Green sort of coach now. He has learned, as we found out with the timeout usage, he's gotten better at that. That's great. And I think all the criticisms that Barrett has laid out over his tenure, like, those are all, all valid things. But at the same time, we have to give him the opportunity to learn from some of these mistakes. Maybe he's learned I have to be more malleable with my lineups, even though it might hurt someone's feelings like a Kristaps Porzingis or a market smart like we have to be. I have to just do what's best in for. For the team, not for everybody's camaraderie in the locker room. Right. I think a lot of the Marcus smart stuff went back to. Well, he's been here longer than Derek. It's. It just doesn't feel right or look right if we play him over. Over Marcus at this particular juncture. I. I think oftentimes Kaufman, I. You haven't pushed back too much on me in that argument. I think you're kind of in a similar. Like, obviously firing Joe at the end of the season would be a little bit of a shock, but I do think that we forget how green he still is in having a Sam Cassell on the bench and all these other guys on the bench is way more helpful than it's ever been then I think.

[Brian Barrett]

No, I. I think that, you know, we've talked about it as assistants have left along the way. It's. It's always. I remember again, not to cite him for, you know, multiple appearances on this show, but Gary Washburn, you know, we had a long conversation with Gary early on in the Joe tenure about surrounding him with experience. You know, how valuable it was having Jeff Van Gundy there. Like there's, you know, it absolutely makes a difference. Where, you know, where I would push back is. I still. I know you just said you wouldn't be I. If I don't care how badly the upcoming season goes. The Celtics could win 15 games. Joe Missoula is safe because there is the built in. Jason Tatum is not there. This is a gap year for everybody. It's an important year for a whole lot of reasons that don't involve winning. You know, as Barrett alluded to and as we've talked about plenty in terms of just trying to learn more about your organization and your players and your coach and building for that next opportunity to be a contender, which hopefully at this point in time, we're having that conversation literally one year from now with a healthy Jason Tatum.

[Evan Valenti]

And.

[Brian Barrett]

Okay, you're right back in the conversation. You're right there among the title favorites in the NBA and. And all of it. But I think Joe and. And part of it goes back to. Because I remember how, you know, floored people were when, you know, the Nuggets made their change last year. And it's like, well, let's. Let's keep in mind, you know, there was a rift between coaching staff and front office. Joe Missoula and Brad Stevens, by all indications, are entirely on the same page. Brad loves Joe. Now, if something changes along the way, I take all of this back. But so long as those two are complete, completely Kumbaya. And the Celtics are having representative success, and I mean that with Jason Tatum, not, obviously, this upcoming season, unless, of course, Tatum is back. I think Joe is incredibly safe. I don't think there is even a hint of Joe going anywhere. And I will remind people that even with multiple years remaining on his deal, Joe just got a contract extension. You know, that wasn't an accident. That was a public leap of faith or a public, you know, declaration that, you know, hey, we still believe in this guy. We like this guy. Shut up. All of you out there who question him or us for employing him. So, Barrett. Yeah, I mean, Evan, I. You know, that's. We tend to agree on a lot here on this show, I think. But one area that we do dovetail is I don't think Joe is. Joe's got at least two more years of safety before something would change for sure.

[Adam Kaufman]

I agree with you on that. 150. I remember Missoula beat John Wall in Kentucky at Syracuse, and he had a. That game was at Syracuse, the Syracuse regional. He had a compromised limb, too. His shoulder was messed up, and he's out there beating John Wall and DeMarcus Cousins and that great Kentucky team. Man, what a bad coach John Calipari is. But anyway, I digress. To your point. I agree, Like, I think Joe's got a long rope here and, like, he deserves it. And Going back to just like how difficult the situation was and you say, well, you're crazy, man. Look at all the great players he had. Well, he also remember his first year and correct me if I'm wrong in this, he was the only carryover from Brad's staff. So Brad clearly likes him. Like he was on Brad Stevens coaching staff and then he stayed on IMA staff. So he inherits all IME's assistants. A bunch of guys also that probably felt, and I could understand why, that they were more qualified for the job than Joe. So now they're working for this guy and they're trying to figure out what's going on with imex. And I'm not saying it was like a bad situation. I'm saying it's a difficult one for a first year head coach where it's like he didn't put his coaching staff together right. The following year he did and he, they brought in Charles Lee. Right. So I do wonder that too. Like going back to last year, not to keep bringing up the Knicks series, but like, is there enough people in the room where you guys mentioned Van Gundy was gone? Who. We saw what he did to the Clippers. He became their, essentially their defensive coordinator and, and they finished what, number two in the NBA and defense behind only Oklahoma City. Like that was an incred. That also that team featured James Harden and they were number two in the NBA in defense. Right. So you look at it, Van Gundy's gone, Charles Lee's gone. I know Cassel was there obviously, but how many people were there that like were like, hey Joe, here's the data. Like this, this is what we're doing with the double bigs. Like do you want to maybe go away from that? Like how much like challenging did he get from the coaching staff that he got the previous year? I wonder that, like, I wonder if Van Gundy was still on the staff and maybe to a lesser extent Charles Lee, would they have played the same way? Like, and I know Van Guy didn't have like.

[Brian Barrett]

Belichick conversation.

[Evan Valenti]

Yeah. But it's a valid point.

[Adam Kaufman]

Yeah. Ernie Adams.

[Evan Valenti]

Yeah. Not, not having, not having certain guys. It's a valid point. You, you've lost a ton of experience with Van Gundy and Charles Lee. I mean Charles Lee was everybody's favorite assistant coach to get a head job. He just couldn't get one and ends up in Boston and does really well. Van Gundy, I mean, look, he's been around forever, whether it's broadcasting, coaching, etc, you know, that's a Lot of experience to lose off your bench again. I love Sam Cassell. I think Sam Cassell's done an excellent job. But they. They might need another voice. They might need somebody else who's got some serious experience to kind of stay to Joe. Like, hey, man, like, you're being, like. You're being a knucklehead with this too big stuff. You gotta. You gotta find. We got to go to something else. I don't know if anybody besides Sam Cassell, like, is it a meal? It's not Emil Jefferson. Emil Jefferson has the job. I mean, I. I'm not trying to, you know, talk too much here, but Emil Jefferson has a job because he's, like, Jason Tatum's best friend, right? They're at, like, weddings together. They're at Michael Rubin's party together. Like, there's the o'.

[Adam Kaufman]

Neill.

[Evan Valenti]

Jefferson's not going to these things unless he knows Jason Tatum. And I'm not saying it's a bad thing. You know, sometimes you got to pay Uncle Dennis. Sometimes you got to pay Emil Jefferson to give him a spot. I'm not saying that's not. But I mean, like, how.

[Adam Kaufman]

Hey, that's dangerous going Uncle Dennis territory. So let's be clear here, right?

[Evan Valenti]

I just want to point out, like, that they. Nobody on the staff outside of Sam Kishell has the cachet to go to Joe and be like, hey, man, I.

[Brian Barrett]

Think you're doing something wrong.

[Evan Valenti]

Now, none of us know the inner workings of the coaching staff and what the vibe is and what the camaraderie is and all those things. We don't know. We're not there. However, it's fair to speculate that none of the guys on the bench could really go up to Joe and with, like, with authority, with the. I've been there. I've done this before, and say to Joe, hey, man, you're screwing this up. We got to do something different.

[Adam Kaufman]

Yeah. As a quick aside, I just got to mention this. Uncle Dennis is a legend, man. Like, this guy. This guy goes to the Raptors. He wants a piece of the Maple Leafs, right? Like, hey, if you don't ask for it, you can never get it. Like, I think it's completely plausible. And I know you guys don't want to go on a whole digression about this. I think it's completely plausible that Kawhi knew nothing about that company. That Uncle Dennis is like. He's like, oh, yeah, we got this sponsorship we're getting money for. Like, Kawhi was never like, oh, okay, he's just like, oh, we're making money. Like, I think that's completely possible that Kawhi wasn't even in meetings for, like, getting these sponsors, right? Like, obviously, New Balance he knows about because, like, he's get, he's in commercials and he's wearing their shoes, right?

[Brian Barrett]

Like, yeah, yeah.

[Adam Kaufman]

I think it's completely plausible, like, Uncle Dennis is going to all these teams being like, hey, this is what we need. Hey, we need this, we need that. And quiet, like, doesn't know, like, the stuff that he's asking for or doesn't care. Right? Like, Kawaii's the perfect super. I know he's his family member, but he's like, the perfect superstar for a guy like Uncle Dennis because, yeah, he's not gonna, like, follow up questions about this, right? Like, is this shady? Like, Uncle Dennis is a flat out legend, man.

[Brian Barrett]

No, this, this would be, you know, it's, it's like Turtle taking some of Vince's money and putting, you know, in investing in. Yeah, I don't even need to tell you.

[Adam Kaufman]

Don't worry.

[Brian Barrett]

You'll be, you'll be fine. Let's make you some money. It's funny. I did Google. I mean, I know obviously the story like, we're all talking about, but I just wanted to see what happened. And I went to Google and I just typed in Uncle Dennis. Not like in quotes. Not like any. Not Uncle Dennis, Kawhi, just Uncle Dennis. Just to see if nothing else pops up other than Kawhi Leonard stories. I mean, that, that is where we are in the SEO world.

[Adam Kaufman]

Simply.

[Brian Barrett]

Uncle Dennis just gives you a laundry list of links. And I love.

[Evan Valenti]

Is he the most famous dentist right now of all the dentists in the United States? Is he just the most.

[Adam Kaufman]

Yeah. Menace has lost steam.

[Brian Barrett]

Yeah. As well as Miller.

[Evan Valenti]

Dennis Miller's still out there.

[Brian Barrett]

Hasn't been, hasn't been Quaid in a while. That hasn't been Rodman. How about Schroeder? Do you see this thing? The. I don't want to have a conversation about this, but I, I, I will bring it up anyway. This was, this was a social media thing that Dennis Schroeder might, you know, be because of the, the Euro basket win that, that might have cemented his case for the hall of Fame. I mean, again, I, I realize, I, I realize that it. And we say it all the time. It's why, like, you know, people have the different guy, different situation. But, like, is Al Horford a Hall of Famer? And he is, in part because he was A multiple time champion in college. It's not the NBA hall of Fame. It is the Basketball hall of Fame, where all of your accomplishments on the court are honored. College, pro, overseas, you know, international, everything. You know, And I'm just talking about players, never mind builders and all of that stuff. Congrats again to Jeff Twist, by the way, for his honor. But yeah, I mean, Dennis Schroeder is his tennis Schroeder, a Hall of Famer was not a conversation, guys, that I was prepared to see entertained on social media.

[Evan Valenti]

I can't do it. Come on. It has to be. There has to be a limit. And I think Dennis Schroeder is a limit. I don't think. Come on, what are we doing here? That's crazy, dude.

[Adam Kaufman]

I mean, the Basketball hall of Fame is a joke. Like, the. I can't even have like a legitimate debate about the Basketball hall of Fame. Because it'd be one thing if we were talking about an NBA hall of Fame, but it's the Basketball hall of Fame. Like, I just don't even know how to debate it. Like, the 2008 Olympic team went into the hall of Fame. Why? Like, I get the original dream team because of a. Not only, like, hey, it's the most dominant team and maybe the best, the greatest team ever assembled. And they also, because of that team, like, the game of basketball grew globally, right? The 2008 Redeem Team, what was so special about. I get. They had a ton of talent. Like, they had Kobe, they had LeBron and Dwyane Wade and Karl Carmelo and all these guys, right? But like Darren Williams, Chris Paul, Jason Kidd. So because the team prior to them, because Larry Brown decided to play Stephon Marbury and Allen Iverson more than Dwyane Wade and LeBron, like, so because you won the gold medal with the best players in the world, like, this is a gold medal. So should every now US Team that wins the gold medal or we putting them, like, should we put last year's team that won, like, or they barely won, by the way, should they be going into the hall of Fame? Like, I don't, like, I don't understand why that team got into the hall of Fame. It makes no sense to me. But I don't know. Like, Basketball hall of Fame debates make like, I can't even tell you. Like, you have like, Billy Donovan's in the hall of Fame. I get it. He won back to back national championships. But it's like, it's so confusing because I think he's a pretty good NBA coach. He's not a great NBA coach. And the guy that took over for him just led OKC to the NBA championship, and he actually willingly decided to leave OKC for Chicago. That's kind of a bad decision. But anyway, like, it's just weird seeing Billy Donovan going to the hall of Fame. And it's like, oh, yeah, Billy Donovan was so good at, like, I don't know. Obviously it's never going to change now, but the thing's an absolute joke.

[Brian Barrett]

So I. No, I initially regretted it. Now I'm happy we went down this rabbit hole because I just pulled up this. This is how we bring it full circle to Celtics content, and not just because Schroeder was briefly here. So this article on basketball network.net apparently, I think this online debate, this Twitter debate, started because Dwight Howard, who of course was a teammate of Schroeder's, tweeted, dennis Schroeder making a case for the hall of Fame. And then people started reacting. This article, you know, went off of that and. And said, how about this? While there's already a Feeba hall of Fame, the Schroeder will almost certainly enter. He would not be the first player to be inducted into the Naismith hall of Fame without major NBA accolades. And I will remind people Schroeder's never been an All Star. He has received six man of the Year votes. But it goes on to say, tell me if you know where I'm going. I paused for dramatic effect. A perfect example is legendary Croatian center Dino Raja, who won a total of eight medals with the Yugoslav and Croatian national teams, including two golds. Raja also won the Euroleague twice with his hometown club and was once Final Four mvp. But he joined the Boston Celtics, the team that was in transitional period after the Larry Bird era and didn't achieve much. Raja was solid in a Boston uniform, likely the best player on that team at the time, but never received individual or team awards. He was inducted into the hall of fame in the 2018 class. And it goes on and on and on. Dino Raja, man. You know what? Dennis Schroeder might have a better case than Dino Raja.

[Evan Valenti]

Just because he can make a case for Dennis over Dino doesn't mean we gotta have Dennis in there. You know what I mean? Hello, Dino. We love Dino on this show. We're very pro Dino podcast.

[Brian Barrett]

Are we? Are you? Not for a lot of the miserable Celtics years that I grew up with.

[Evan Valenti]

Yeah. Well, sure.

[Adam Kaufman]

I can't say I love Deep Brown growing up.

[Brian Barrett]

Yeah. Who didn't Love D. Brown.

[Adam Kaufman]

Yeah, the pumps. But Dino Raja, like, this is. The conversation is like, why isn't there just like a Feeba hall of Fame or something? Like, there is. It should not be the same hall of Fame. It makes. It makes absolutely no sense. But I will say this. You mentioned Dwight Howard, the fact that he wasn't on the top 70, the NBA 75 team. I know this is like a couple years ago now. Yeah, that was an absolute joke. Like, guys, Damien Lillard made it over Dwight Howard. There's.

[Brian Barrett]

There's a lot.

[Adam Kaufman]

Howard won. Yeah, like people. Like people don't like Dwight. This guy won four consecutive defensive player of the years. Correct me if I'm wrong in that he was like the best defensive player in the league for an extended period of time. Dwight Howard. And I know he's a goofball.

[Evan Valenti]

Yeah.

[Adam Kaufman]

Dwight Howard.

[Brian Barrett]

Hall of famer, eight time all star, five time rebounding champ, 2020 champion. That was the COVID championship, obviously, with the Lakers. 8 time all NBA, 2 time block champ, all rookie team, 5 all defensive teams, 3 defensive player of the years.

[Adam Kaufman]

Yeah.

[Brian Barrett]

So Dwight Howard, by the way, consecutive, though. Three in a row.

[Adam Kaufman]

Yeah. Okay, three in a row. I consider that. I mean, the 2020 championship, that's the Peach Jam. They wanted the AAU tournament. Congratulations for them on that. But the other thing that I would point to with Dwight, he beat LeBron in a playoff series to go to the NBA Finals. Like, he was. He was the best player on that team. And by the way, like, they had a chance in that series against the Lakers, and he was by far the best player on that team. Like I. In what world should Damian Lillard be? And I don't. I feel bad. Like, single. I know Damian Lillard. Damian Lillard's biggest moment, go back to the 2019 Western Conference finals that he made it to. Go look up those numbers. Compare them to Steph Curry, which. Oh, by the way, that Portland team. Durant wasn't playing. And Steph. And look, Steph's one of the, what, 10 to 15? Maybe, maybe some people haven't. Top 10 players of all time. But Dame's biggest moment, Western Conference finals. He stunk. He was bad in that series. Dwight Howard's out there beating LeBron and we're putting Damian Lillard in the top 75 over Dwight Howard. That's a joke. And the other thing that I don't understand.

[Brian Barrett]

The show, wondering how he's catching strays.

[Adam Kaufman]

Yeah, I know Dame's probably. Yeah, Dame's good. Dame's work. It out for this, like for the motivation, right as he's getting ready to play, getting ready to play in Portland again. I don't know. Like I, I get it's tough to take that, make that top 75 list and I'm sure people don't want to take certain players off that list. So I'm guessing that's part of the equation as well. That's why I just went with like comparing him to a current player that just like I was absolutely shocked that when that list came out and Dwight Howard wasn't on, I'm like, is this serious? Like, because like I know some of them is like predicting, right? So the originalists, Shaq at that time wasn't a top 50 player. But like everybody knew like yeah, he's got to be a top 50 player. So let's just put him on and you know, Shaq's primes is one of the. I, I feel like it's kind of crazy. Shaq is like somehow underrated. He was the most dominant force in the league for like a four to five year period and by the way, in a couple of play beat the crap out of Tim Duncan, which I, I think Tim Duncan is one of the all time greats. Obviously. I think he's a top seven player, six, seven player in the league.

[Evan Valenti]

Sure.

[Adam Kaufman]

Yeah, I keep going on this monologue here, but I just, it, it just at the point now where because of his personality, Dwight's personality, people forget how good the guy was. It's, it's, it's wild.

[Brian Barrett]

Do you want to remind folks to check out obviously not just the Celtics beat podcast, all other Celtics content on the CLNS YouTube page, specifically the all access page. You can like the video, subscribe to the content, get push notifications when it's available to you. We release these shows once a week at least, occasionally multiple if we're feeling frisky. But there are so many Celtics podcasts across CLNs that you can check out. And as we, you know, kind of alluded to, joked about off the top of the show, there's Red Sox beat and there's Patriots content and Bruins content and a new WNBA show coming on and on and on. Make sure you check it out across the CLNs YouTube page in general. And if you are solely listening, you don't want to look at our mugs, that's fine. You can check us out wherever you get your podcast. Spotify, Apple, Pandora, you name it, we're there. We appreciate you. Great review. Most importantly though, do subscribe to the content because again, the season is right around the corner. Guys. I, I mean, look, we, we could talk for hours on end, the three of us having a fun time, but I think once we go down the Is Dennis Schroeder a Hall of Famer rabbit hole. It's probably a. A good time to call it a day.

[Adam Kaufman]

And the Dwight V. Damian Miller. Sorry, guys, I don't know. I don't know how that came out.

[Evan Valenti]

Fired up, though. We love it. Yeah.

[Brian Barrett]

Shouts to Uncle Dennis. We appreciate you inspiring content as always.

[Adam Kaufman]

That's.

[Brian Barrett]

That's always important, too. Brian Barrett is on Twitter at. It's Brian Barrett, part of the ringer and Spotify host the off the pike podcast. Make sure you check that out occasionally. Evan I are on there. And obviously Barrett pops onto this show whenever, you know, we're. We're able to work it out for everybody's schedules as well. We always love having him. So guys, next time we talk, I'm guessing we're going to be, I don't know, in season, just above the season train, you know, preseason games, whatever it is, the next one is going to have real basketball to get into and probably some, you know, underlying Jason Tatum storylines as well. But nevertheless, I'm looking forward to it. Barrett, thanks so much for hopping on.

[Adam Kaufman]

I appreciate it, fellas.

[Brian Barrett]

Ev, always a pleasure. I am Adam, we'll talk to you again real soon. Thank you guys so much for tuning in. Enjoy the weekend.

[Adam Kaufman]

This episode is brought to you by ESPN. Catch the first WWE premium live event on ESPN, Russell Palooza live on Saturday, September 20th at 7:00pm Eastern Time.

[Brian Barrett]

It's going to be an epic night.

[Adam Kaufman]

In Indianapolis featuring some of the biggest WWE Superstars. This event is only on ESPN, so go to stream.espn.com and sign up to.

[Brian Barrett]

The ESPN app today for your all.

[Adam Kaufman]

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