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- [00:00]
A
Martha listens to her favorite band all the time. In the car, gym, even sleeping. So when they finally went on tour, Martha bundled her flight and hotel on Expedia to see them live. She saved so much, she got her seat close enough to actually see and hear them. Sort of. You were made to scream from the front row. We were made to quietly save you more Expedia made to travel savings vary and subject to availability. Flight inclusive packages are atoll protected.
- [00:31]
B
Today is Friday, September 26th, and this is Celtics beat on the CLNS Media Network, the leading online provider of audio video coverage of the Boston Celtics. I'm Adam Kaufman. Episode 643 features longtime voice of the Celtics, Sean Grandy.
- [00:46]
C
And I'm Evan Valenti. And today's show is powered by Prize Picks. Prize Picks is the official daily fantasy partner of CLNS Media. Down the app today, use the promo code CLNS and get $50 in lineups when you play, $5.
- [01:09]
B
Hey, everyone. Welcome in a very special edition of Celtic Speed to take you into your weekend. Why? Because unlike the past several weeks where we've had a lot of very good, interesting conversation, now we have maybe just a little. Well, no, I was going to say less speculating. There's still plenty of speculation. It's just now we have real things to react to. Media day for the Boston Celtics is approaching on Monday. Training camp, preseason games. It's all right around the corner. Ownership spoke this week. New ownership for the very first time. So what did Bill Chisholm have to say? And of course, Jason Tatum spoke with anyone who would listen. I mean, just about everybody on the national stage. Tatum had their ear, video, print, digital. I mean, I guess we didn't have him on this show. So, you know, we're. We're not perfect. But Tatum was busy. I don't know if Sean Grandy, our guest here, had a moment to speak with him. Grandy, of course, Voice of the Celtics. He is on Twitter at Sean Grandy. PBP also has another super secret account with a handle that you will never discover. I haven't found it. I've been looking for years. Sean, how are you?
- [02:15]
D
That's the first time you've ever brought me on here without saying long time, like, at least to my face in the intro. Well, I thought this was the perfect year. You guys could just beat up on me all year because not only is it the 25th anniversary season. Emax. Yeah, 25th anniversary. I. I got that in an email today. And I got an email today that said in December, I have no Idea. Apparently I'm going to become the all time. I've called more games at TD Garden than anybody else. Wow. All of you now have no shortage of ways to call me old. Like they'll be. They just keep coming day by day as if, you know, getting garden careers.
- [02:57]
B
Broadcaster Sean first of all, who keeps.
- [03:00]
D
Track of this stuff is beyond me. But as if waking up every day. As if waking up every day sore. Like, wasn't I already know. Like, I know I've got a teenage son who reminds me, I don't. I don't need the rest of this in my life.
- [03:15]
B
Well, we're already at the, you know, like, sit down, bend over to tie your shoe. Grunting age. So why not add all of this to the equation? So what do you get for 25 years? Do you get a fancy watch? Do you get a plaque? Does. Does the plaque and the big like mural and everything, does that only come in retirement? Like, what do we get? Golden microphone, statue. What do we have at 25?
- [03:37]
D
It seems like we're going to get a couple of months off in the spring.
- [03:43]
C
All right, fair enough.
- [03:45]
D
Like everybody else, I've been, you know, I've been listening to all of you. I've listened to everybody all summer and who the heck knows? It's the Eastern Conference. It's obviously wide open. That's sort of the standard joke. I have a bunch of gap year jokes, you know, that you. You're gonna get. We just don't know anything. Including what I imagine will be our number one topic and the number one topic all year, which will be the Jason Tatum thing. I threw up. Just a fun. Jumped on that the other day on the aforementioned Twitter just to see if it was. The water was as warm as I thought it would be. And it was. People went crazy when I threw out my pretend date, which is my pretend date. Everybody is their pretend date.
- [04:27]
B
Yeah.
- [04:28]
D
I did it mostly to say, I wonder if this is going to be a thing. It's a thing. So it's going to be all year.
- [04:35]
B
So I noticed.
- [04:37]
D
Hold on.
- [04:37]
C
But you knew that was going to be a. Like, that's like throwing chum into the water. Like.
- [04:45]
D
Part of my job is making sure it's junk or if we're just going to be. But this is going to be the thing. I think mostly you do it because I'm wondering how much of a distraction is the wrong word, but I'll use it anyway. That this is going to be a thing all year. Particularly as we turn the calendar into the first of the year. And I think I might as well jump into it now. Right? People are sort of. I think they're misunderstanding, particularly on the national level, listening to a lot of people that, you know, both of us listen to, a lot of you guys listen to. I think people are missing the point that a potential Tatum return this year has anything to do with this year's playoffs or hey, it's going well, so get him back. Nothing to do with anything. I am a. If there are two camps of people, because let's not oversimplify this like everything else in the world is oversimplified and make two camps of he should play this year or he shouldn't. I'm very much in the camp of he should. And that is obviously based on the premise that he is 100% healthy, cleared and ready to go. And to me, it has always been about. Not this year. It is about wanting Jason tatum to be 100% mentally comfortable one year from now when we're having the same conversation before GRANDY and Max's 26th year happens. And that to me is the. That to me is the thing. It's all about getting into play. I think you're better off. I go back to the Paul George one because the longtime voice of the team. Right. I've been around long enough to remember the Paul George one, which was where his injury happened. Over the summer, playing for the national team, he was able to come back, play 15 games. I picked the date out randomly, but there's about 20 games left in the season. He played 12 or 15 of those games. That was the date I picked randomly. Let him play 12 or 15 games if he's healthy and then he's. He's good to go. Nothing to do.
- [06:40]
B
I want to know how random it was. And the reason I say that is because I noticed that I'll. I'll say independent dude who's been looking.
- [06:48]
D
For my burner account for 10 years.
- [06:51]
B
You and Dan Greenberg, our friend Barstool Greeny. Was Dan all with us last week, Ev.
- [06:56]
D
Was it?
- [06:56]
B
Was it last week?
- [06:58]
C
Was on last week.
- [06:58]
D
He's a good job. He's a fun lesson.
- [07:00]
B
Yeah, he's been on with us recently. Anyway. You and. And Greenie offered the same date.
- [07:06]
D
Did we?
- [07:07]
B
The same March 4th date. Now Greenie's logic, I believe, was because it is the day after Jason Tatum's birthday. It's also a home game. It's against Charlotte. You know, kind of stress free, sort of. These things came into play for Greening. I can't imagine you looked at the calendar and just counted out and said, yeah, 15, 20 games left March 4th. Let's go with that. I, I know you well enough to know that everything that you do, good or bad, is deliberate.
- [07:38]
C
So.
- [07:38]
B
So I think there was a reason. There was something even maybe it was as simple as, yeah, birthday seems like good timing. I don't know. I'm putting words in your mouth, but I think there was a reason you picked March 4th.
- [07:49]
D
Yeah, it's just messing with you to see if you'd overthink it. No, you did. So it worked. No, I think I was looking for a date towards the end of the year there. You know, again, you're looking at that's 10 months out from the injury and my God, how many times we got to talk about how fast they basically got him out of the operating table. They reeled him off the floor onto the operating table and now this will be part of the legendary story. But it's.
- [08:12]
B
I can't believe he's not already playing five on five.
- [08:15]
D
You know, it's being, listen, it's being around the dot, the man himself and spending all this time around him, watching him, the player that he is, the man that he is, how much he, how passionate he is, how much he's going to want to get back and knowing that I just don't see a scenario by which again premise he's 100% healthy, medically cleared, all of that. If that happens in February, I don't see anybody, I don't see the proverbial wild horses keeping him from playing. And I don't think it is in the long term benefit. I know a lot of people say that to me, just keep him out because you're afraid. You're treating it eggshells and be careful with. If he's healthy and cleared he's going to play. He get. He can slip on a banana peel at any time. You, the three of us, you may not remember this. We had a conversation the day before game three of the series, two games before the injury, which we were talking about Jason Tatum climbing up the all the injured list. And it was one of those things like if he said, you know, I remember saying if he stays healthy, if he stays healthy because you never know what's, what's around that door. But I think you want him. Listen, I, my primary thing isn't about picking a date for him to come back. It's about the mental health and happiness of this guy because I already know I have a good feeling what kind of player he's going to be. I think this is going to change. You're going to remember this gap. He's been out as if there were any. The degree of love and the ownership of Jason Tatum in Boston and vice versa and Boston. Of Jason Tatum and Jason Tatum in Boston and is going to be at a different level when he comes back for the second half of his career. This is going to be a thing. I mean, this is. The Jays. Drake May and Roman Anthony are obviously the centerpieces of this town for the next five to 10 years. But I think Jason Tatum is going to go to another level when he works his way back and steps on that floor at the Garden. I'm not sure that a home game is the right. The only question, the only decision I'd question is whether home games the right choice, because that is an awful lot of emotion for the guy to deal with in addition to everything he has, you know, put forth to get back. Because Deuce will be there and his family will be there and the, the. It's going to be a moment. We already have it to look forward to. It's going to be a moment that when my. However many years are finally over here as the longtime voice of the Celtics, I'll bet you that night, whether it's March, whatever it is or not, is going to be one we remember for a generation.
- [10:55]
B
And if we put stock, and it'd be unfair to do it, but if we're just reacting to the man, right, if we put stock in what Tatum had to say during all of his media rounds, I don't know how many times, how many different people. Espn, abc, cbs, Mannix and Sports Illustrated.
- [11:10]
D
Don't forget People magazine.
- [11:12]
B
Everybody talked to everybody. I mean, he was like talking to people walking down the street. He said to everyone, I, you know, I'm not going to say when. I'm not going to give you the specifics, but my family, my close friends know I got a date in my head. I got a goal, certainly, for a date that I'm going to return. And I'll tell you this. It's going to be a home game. It's going to be a home game. Like all of that, all that that you just said. Yeah, he can't control that. This is, again, his goal. Like he said, that if nothing else tells you, not that you really need me to connect these dots, but that if nothing else says, yeah, the guy's planned to play this year, at least if it's within his ability, within his power, within his physical nature, mental, all of it. He's planned to play this year in part because unless he got a leak on the 26, 27, you know, season release, he doesn't know if they're opening at home. They could be opening on the road for all we know. So if this guy is hell bent on making his debut in a home game to the degree that it's within his control, Evan, it's this season, whether it's March, April, probably not the playoffs, sooner, February, January, you do the math. We've talked about this. If he wants to quote, unquote, beat science, that Wesley Matthews is the first, the fastest guy back in 2015 to come back from a ruptured Achilles, did it in seven and a half months. If you project out from that May 12th injury in New York that Tatum had, that's mid January. Yeah, that's, that's, that's. I mean, that's your, your dream scenario, right, is this guy returns a la Kobe Bryant much later in his career, mind you, within eight months of that injury, then, yeah, we're going to see him for a couple months next year.
- [12:47]
D
Let me do. Before I, before we go, you jump and do your thing. The dream scenario is that Jason Tatum is healthy for the second half of his career.
- [12:55]
B
Bingo.
- [12:57]
D
Goes back January 12 to January 20. This is obviously a big picture thing. Yeah.
- [13:03]
C
For me, it goes back to the quote of like, I'm not working out six days a week at the gym for no reason. Like, I'm trying, trying to come back. I, I keep echoing the rich Gotham quote of Jason Tam's gonna make us make a decision on whether he's gonna play or not. If I know Jason Tatum. Right. And I'm paraphrasing, but it's, it's what I really have enjoyed, is it? Everybody has the same sort of mantra with this whole thing. It's like, Jason's gonna work his ass off as much, assumingly possible to play as soon as he possibly can. There's no mistaking any of this, given the short time we've seen. And it's, I guess, longer now because he's been on the league for a while. But the body of evidence of Jason Tatum suggests that he will be back sooner rather than later. And, and he's going to work as hard as he possibly can at it. I mean, one of the things that I love about Janell and Jason and you got to give Brad and Danny and Austin and all the front age people, the front office people, when they drafted those two guys, they draft the two guys that work really hard off the court in the off season stuff. Jalen has always come back a better player than he was the year prior. Jason the same. And that sort of work ethic clearly has made an impact on everybody in the organization. And this just comes to this leadership thing that I've talked about recently, and I think we talked about it maybe last week with Barrett about how this particular injury has shown a bigger light on how Jalen and Jason lead by example. You know, you have Tatum on the floor six days a week in the off season when we're trying to get back, like if you're, if you're a rookie coming in or if you're a second year guy coming in and Jason Tatum coming back from injuries here six days a week, what are you going to do? Right? It's like the Tom Brady thing. Tom Brady's here at 4:00 in the morning. 5:00 in the morning. Well, Edelman's here earlier because Edelman's got to work on stuff too. It's like this whole permutation of the, of, of this team, like kind of.
- [15:03]
B
Just lead by example. Right.
- [15:05]
C
I think it's wonderful to the question though, like, you know what, what's the dream scenario? I agree with Granny. It's like one of these things where I, the dream scenario for me is when he comes back, he's 100 healthy, let's worry about this thing anymore. The date doesn't matter to me. I think given the comments though, Sean, maybe, you know, you can guide us. It feels like he's planning on. He doesn't have any setbacks to come back this year and at least just try and shake some of the rust off.
- [15:35]
D
Of course he's planning on it. And why, why wouldn't he? It's what he loves. You know, he. This is a really, again, it's a jarring emotional experience for someone who has given his whole life to this game, to becoming the player that he has and you want that target. That's it is why he's working every day. And the calendar, it's sort of, I think from a Jason Tatum standpoint, from an organizational standpoint, it really is, calendar be damned. We can have fun with it and throw darts at the board and pick a date, but we all know what this year is. What it. I would say we don't know what it's going to be, but I personally am okay with that. I think a lot of people are. My main takeaway is being in town this summer and having people come up to me at Fenway or people come up to me on the street. I think there's a real genuine. I'm not Talking about the 1% of the 1% who are going to get mad on social media or whatever. I mean, just genuine fans are really okay with whatever happens this year and how it plays out. And I think that all plays into Jason Tatum being healthy at the top of the list.
- [16:43]
B
Well, I think there is a. We've talked about this a lot on this show over the summer, albeit not with you, Sean, so I want to have this conversation with you. I think there is quite obviously a wide range of outcomes as it relates to this Boston Celtics team with the roster that they currently have. Not to say the changes won't be made in season. Obviously, there's the whole Will Anthony Simons make it through the year? Is he, you know, gone even somehow before the season to see a Celtic at the end of the year and they're looking to resign him on the Chief? Any number of things are possible. We have had guests tell us that this is a team that probably wins 25 games. We have had guests tell us this is a playoff team. If you guys looked at the Eastern Conference, of course they're a playoff team. And not only that, they could win around. They could be right back in the semifinals where they were last year. They're not a contender. They're not a championship team as we know them right now. Under there's no version, there's no version, this team wins a championship as it exists right now. However, let's say you do get Jason Tatum back in March, say he looks all right, maybe not exactly the same guy. I think it's going to take a little bit of time to return to form if he's, you know, fortunate enough to get there. In general, we all hope he is. He's still young. He's got age and science on his side and all of that. But let's just say that doesn't happen this year. That's the fall. Next year, fine. Whatever version of Jason Tatum you get back this season, if it happens, you give them a few week, ramp up to the playoffs, and then, boom, you're in the postseason. Are they a contender?
- [18:17]
D
No. But I'll tell you what they're a contender do. Have a Cleveland or Orlando win 56 games and then say, wait a minute, who do we have to play in the first round? And that is what one of the things that's going to make this year to be fascinating And a lot of fun. And once you let go of what the Celtics had to do, and I think we all know they had to do it, this had to be done, you realize that there is a freebie element to this year and I do love that everyone is all over the map of what's going to happen and I won't throw anybody under the bus. Obviously there's a lot of people doing a lot of Celtics podcasts, but one of your compatriots was talking about the schedule after it came out and saying, well, you know, you open with Philadelphia and you know, that's kind of a, that's sort of a soft, you know, someone who was trying to talk themselves into that 45 win angle, right. Trying to get themselves there, which I think we all think is sort of the high end best case scenario. Everything has to go right, by the way. Never ever happens. It never happens that everything that could go right goes right. It doesn't work that way. But in doing this and trying to talk him or herself up to this number, say, well, opening night, that's kind of an easy, you know, soft softer game. Philadelphia at home. And I texted the person, I said, so what you're saying is Joel Embiid against Emmaus Keda, you're counting as an easy win. Like there's sort of a lack of understanding.
- [19:42]
B
Not only McCain's hurt again, right?
- [19:45]
D
Not only. Not, of course. And Jared, Jared McCain, who by the way, the Celtics. Jared McCain in Boston only exists in 2K. Like literally missed every game against the Celtics last year. And if he misses the start of this year, the Celtics and Sixers play three times in the first three weeks. So this, he's going to be a Myth that Jared McCain exists. If you're a Celtics fan, you're just somebody you've seen on. On tick tock on because. And by the way, how did he. That my son literally said to me tonight, he probably sprained that thumb, that UCL doing all his, you know, social media tick tock. That's probably how he got hurt. Extra strain on it in the first place. But I love the fact that everyone's all over the map and that we don't know when's the last time that we didn't have a pretty good idea. This team's going to be really good. This seems good to be middle of the pack. It really could be anything. And I love that if you're asking, which I assume you are, I tend to be. I'm towards the lower end of the group and the Reason why is not because you don't have an all NBA player and a, you know, a guy who still is on a Hall of Fame trajectory. And Jalen Brown, by the way, Derrick White is one of the best players in the league regardless of wherever ESPN ranks him in the top 100. You have the sixth man of the year continuing his ascension and getting better. I think people are going to love, they're going to love watching Simons. But all of these things that are upside, putting all of it aside, you know what? We continue to have the same conversation, which is nobody understands just how freaking good Jason Tatum is. And that to me is the overwhelming reason that separates the Celtics from these top teams in the east is that for his eight years in a league, when Jason Tatum has been on the floor, The Celtics are a 66 win team. When he's been off the floor, there are 500 team. And the teammates he's had in those eight years include Drew Holiday and Porzingis and Horford and Marcus Morris and Kyrie Irving and whatever. And still when he's off the floor, they've been 500. So this team isn't as talented as we speak today on September, what, You know, late September before training camp. That's the reason I think the Celtics are going to have a tough time getting to the upper tier of the east is that people are looking at what the roster is and bypassing. The number one reason the Celtics are in this spot they're in right now is because one of the best players in the world and certainly the best American player on the planet is out. That's the reason why.
- [22:16]
B
Let's take a quick break, tell you about our good friends over at Prize Picks. Prize Picks is the best place to get real money sports action. With over 10 million members and billions of dollars in awarded winnings, Prize Picks has made daily fantasy sports accessible to all. You just pick more or less on at least two players for a shot to win up to 2000 times your cash. You heard me right. 2000x run your game all season long on prize picks.
- [22:43]
C
Cough. Last week, his first week, we didn't hit the flex play. We did not hit it. We were over. Well, one for three. Which is not a winner.
- [22:52]
B
No.
- [22:53]
C
So we got to go back to the drawing board.
- [22:54]
B
This week doesn't even count. I don't even remember it.
- [22:58]
C
I know, right? We gotta go back to the drawing board this week for our flex play for prize picks.
- [23:02]
B
What do you got?
- [23:03]
C
Or in the NFL, in the National Football League, we have another Flex Play freebie for this week. Jalen hurts more than 0.5 passing yards.
- [23:14]
B
Was that the one that hit for you last week? Patrick?
- [23:17]
C
Travis Kelsey, like catches one pass. Yeah, so that's. So we'll take the Jalen hurts. We'll take that. Look, free money.
- [23:24]
D
Still money.
- [23:24]
C
We'll take that next one. You like this one? Drake May.
- [23:28]
B
Okay, I'm listening.
- [23:29]
C
More than.
- [23:31]
B
Yep.
- [23:31]
C
214 and a half passing yards. He's three for three on that so far this year.
- [23:35]
B
Terrible defense on the other side for Carolina. I love it.
- [23:39]
C
Despite the 30 to nothing beating of the Falcons the week prior, I still think Drake may every game win this week. I'm into it now. This last one is a bank. I am banking on the absolutely atrocious, the completely abominable Cincinnati Bengal defense. I got Cortland Sutton, prime time, more than 65 and a half receiving yards.
- [24:04]
B
Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, like you said, a sieve of a defense. Especially the secondary in the Broncos, heavy favorites in this game. They're going to be passing early. Important game for, I mean both teams, but crowded AFC west. So it's going to have to be a factor.
- [24:19]
C
Did you hear that noise just now?
- [24:22]
B
Is that Cha Ching?
- [24:23]
C
No, that was. That was the noise of the Minnesota Vikings scoring one more time on this.
- [24:29]
B
No, I didn't hear it.
- [24:30]
C
That was the disaster. Anyway, with that in mind, flex play, baby. You hit all 3.3x your bet. If you only had two out of three, it's 1x, which for me, it's a win. That's a win. We'll take that. And getting your money from prize picks could not be any easier. In little as 15 minutes, watch it roll into your account. Whether you have a debit card, whether you have a bank account, whether you use Venmo, doesn't matter. It's quick, easy, painless cough. Use prize picks. It's the best.
- [24:57]
B
So download the prizepix app. Do it today. Use code CLNS. You get $50 in lineups after playing your first $5 lineup again. Download that app. Do it right now. Well, maybe not right now. After the show. Then go do it. Download the app. Promo code CLNS. $50 in lineups instantly to you after playing your first lineup for only $5. Prize picks. Run your game. Sean Grandy, hanging out here with us and talking about all the different things that have gone, you know, really throughout the off season, Sean, something you were just alluding to and it's kind of a good reminder to me that man, we've been discussing this all season off season, but we haven't done it with you yet. And I think it's worth delving into just a bit because it's very relevant to. Obviously, what Bill Chisholm and company spoke about this week as well is all those changes in the off season, the fact that even if you did get adjacent Tatum back, he's not exactly coming back to that same contending roster. You know, you were last on with us, as you mentioned earlier, way back in May. You know, since then, the emphasis of getting under that second apron, even flirting with getting under the first apron, bringing in Anthony Simons, who we discussed for a moment. But Porzingis traded away. Holiday traded away. Cornette signs elsewhere. Horford presumably is signing elsewhere, but he's certainly not coming back here. You know, this team. I half jokingly made the comment that, I mean there are G League teams that have a more compelling front court than this Boston Celtics team has. Now. I definitely meant that before they added Chris Boucher. Boucher, I do like that. You know, creates an interesting situation there. But nevertheless, this is a roster in flux. So, you know, I. I'm curious, sort of overarching because I know you could go on and on and on just about all the changes and what each individual has, you know, meant to the team and what their loss means to the team. But the overarching thoughts upon what this has done to the roster now kind of being in transition. And also the emphasis for those above Brad and and Zarin and all the brass up top evaluating who's part of this thing come 2026, when in their minds they should be contenders again.
- [27:10]
D
And isn't that. That's the beauty of the season. I mean, are there going to be nights when we go, man, Josh Minot, where. Where have they been hiding this guy in the league? They're going to be nights like that. You know, Boucher's a really good player. He's played well against Celtics over the years. A lot of these guys have. It's. It makes it. What's fascinating to me is not only do we. One of the reasons we don't know how many games are going to win or have any kind of handle is is because it's such an odd roster. Regardless of whether it was a great roster, a bad roster or middle of. Regardless of what you think of the roster, it is so oddly put together. It wasn't intentionally put together to be a team in which are. You have a 52 win backcourt and a front court with a lot of unproven players, you have a dramatic drop. Can Joe Missouli get this team in the top half of the league defensively, top 10 in the league defensively? That to me is the ultimate challenge. Right, because that's where the huge drop off is going to be. It's on the, on the defensive end. Again, factoring in Tatum, who nobody talks about that way, but he's an elite defensive player as well. So I don't know. To me, this is the, the fun part of this year. I don't have new thoughts to offer than what you've been batting around all summer because what we didn't know on June 18, we don't know it today. But the cool part is that we're getting very close to seeing it action and it's going to be an interesting year with Joe, obviously watching him manage this roster. And as I said, I was saying earlier, I think there is an appetite for letting this happen. And we're not that old that 10 years ago when there was an Evan Turner and Jay Crowder and a team that would outperform expectations. Fans loved those teams. Loved those teams.
- [28:55]
C
Yeah, we've had a lot of discussion about Missoula and what's on tab for this year schematically differently from what has happened under Missoula's watch the past couple of years. And we had Jared Weiss on and Jared, I think spoke a little bit more about the tempo of the game and how you're used to watching Jalen and Jason kind of slow things down. Pritchard has been a guy that's been pushing the pace a little bit more than most guys. White helps with that. He alluded to maybe the team a little bit faster this year. Trying to work a little faster. Get in your stuff a little bit faster. Push the ball before a la what the Indiana Pacers basically did against the Knicks in the Eastern Conference finals. They wore them out up and down the floor. Pushing after makes all these things to try and make life difficult for the Knicks, who were, you know, shorter bench at that particular moment in time. What do you expect out of Missoula here in year four, you know, without the queen of the chessboard and Jason Tatum.
- [29:53]
D
A lot of really cool quotes that we've never heard before about different things and motivational.
- [29:58]
C
You have a new movie, maybe the.
- [30:00]
D
New favorite movie, probably a new movie and all the stuff like I, I learn more. It's been one of the great parts of the experience for me is every coach has been different. I spent so many. I spent 17 years with Doc And Brad, think about that. So when, when IME put the headset on at Madison Square Garden in no. Whenever that was opening night of 2021, that was this, the, that was this the second time in 17 years that there had been a new voice on the other end of that. So, you know, I'm someone that likes to learn and likes new experiences and if you like that and new thoughts and new ideas and if you're someone like that, Joe Missoul is someone you want to be around. So that's number one. Number two, I think overall design of playing faster. I put it to you this way. Jason Tatum is become an elite post player too. He plays, he can play bully ball, he can score, he can do all those things. But would you consider Jason Tatum a high pace, high octane type player in the way he plays? No. So take Jason Tatum off the floor. Obviously the numbers are what they are, but I certainly would expect the Celtics are going to be faster. Almost by definition. When you look at the players that are not going to be on the floor for the first 61, how many is it? Adam sir? 61 games until that magic date of March ballpark when it happens for the first 60 games, this team we're going to see opening night in the first half of the year against, by the way, a tough schedule in November. It is a, it could be bumpy at the start. Like you're, you're sort of flying into storms right at the beginning if you look at the early part of the schedule. But I think that team will almost by definition and it's not just Tatum, but Porzingis and Drew Howard, the guys that aren't there anymore. Almost by definition you're going to be faster.
- [31:44]
B
Yeah. I'm curious. We'll have time to get into it. I mean literally months. Who knows, maybe not even this year. Kind of what Jason Tatum we are getting when he's back because again.
- [31:56]
D
Age.
- [31:57]
B
Is on his side. He's 27 years old. We always use Kevin Durant as like the poster child for coming back from the ruptured Achilles. And he has been still maybe, maybe not quite the same guy stylistically, but elite MVP conversation, top 10 votes, perennial all star and he suffered his injury at 32. You know, at that point in time you're in your prime years, near the end of your prime years. Tatum is just entering his prime. But one noticeable thing, we've, we've talked about this a little bit in the past, Deb, but I think Sean is, you know, with all the basketball that you have seen obviously especially up close with Tatum in his entire career and you know Durant, the number of times that you've seen him along the way as well. Durant has changed the way he's played. You know, the, the two point attempts have gone up since that injury. The free throw attempts have gone down since that injury. He has turned into more of a mid range guy, less explosive, doesn't attack the basket with the same regularity. I think people would worry a little bit about. Not that Tatum is that like John Morant, you know, kind of like putting on a show, dunk contest type of stuff out there in games. He's a totally different type of player. But is he going to look different on the floor stylistically when we see him again? I don't mean first couple games, you know, like let's say he plays toward the end of this year for a few weeks. I'm talking about next year, the fall. The Jason Tatum post ruptured Achilles. Who is he?
- [33:29]
D
I think he might. He's going to be an old, you know, older, not old player, but an older player than he was. So I think a lot of that stuff comes into play. If this is an aggregator warning before can we. For the sake of the three of us at least. And that the analogy I'm about to use, the analogy grand he's about to use is not representative of anybody.
- [33:50]
B
Not.
- [33:50]
D
Nor am I suggesting that the Beatles are greater than Jesus or God is a thing or whatever it is I want to use. This is all to use the Michael Jordan comparison. Not this epic impact on the game and being the best player ever, but the year off when you got to see first as Jalen Brown moves into the Scottie Pippen role as being the guy.
- [34:14]
B
Yeah.
- [34:14]
D
And then Jason Tatum, if he does in fact come back for the final 15 games trying to get himself back physically as Jordan was in 95, while also trying to fit into whatever this season becomes. That's information again, as I go back to what I said at the beginning, I want him to have so that he and Nick Sang and his team have a much better idea physically of what they want him to be next summer. That is why, again, underscoring the point earlier, why if all things are equal and he's completely healthy, nothing to do with the playoffs this year. It would be my personal. I think you're better off having Jason Tatum play 15 games and get his legs under him this year so he can start with that information downloaded in his computer and his personal computer going into next summer.
- [35:08]
C
So what do you do with like let's say he comes back, plays and makes a play playing tournament, maybe they advance to the, you know, the, the.
- [35:17]
B
Opening Jason Tatum play important games question.
- [35:20]
C
Well, yeah, this is the, you know, we all know that the postseason is a different animal than the regular season. It's just much more physical. You know, travel, all that stuff. It's different, it's harder, it's more difficult on body. Like is this. So he plays 15 games and you know, he plays sparingly in the playoffs. He doesn't play in the playoffs. He plays depending on how he feels. Like how do you see that going? Because we've made a lot of arguments of like even if he comes back and plays and they make the playoffs and they're a, like I'm not quite sure if playoff basketball like we talked about March 4th, they're playing and I, I almost feel bad at this point that Charlotte Hornets talking into existence now of this joke like, okay, a game against the Charlotte Hornets at home obviously doesn't have the same cachet as starting a series against the number one seed Cleveland Cavaliers or New York Knicks or Orlando Magic. Like I have a hard time picturing Tatum coming back playing some, some games and then being ramped up for playoff physicality. I have a hard time.
- [36:26]
D
Well, first of all, by definition he'd be ramping up in our imaginary scenario, which he's available for the final 20 games, plays 12 or 13 to them. You're going to have a pretty good idea going into the playoffs in a longer form in another time when we didn't want to keep diverting into other topics. I might open up the discussion of how much harder the playoffs are now when you have so many days off in between games. Now in this case, you're probably in the play in tournament. But remember, the Celtics have not been in the play ins. You know, we've had scenarios the Celtics have missed. Not been in the play in tournament for the last few years, although everybody forgets. Great trivia question. The Celtics played in the first ever playing game against Russell Westbrook and the Washington Wizards in 2021. But let's the Celtics have not been in that play in tournament. So they have had by definition. And then you, you win the first round in five games. The Celtics have had these runs the last few years. So they played five games in like a three week span. So yeah, they're playoff games and they're hard and they're uphill. Miles. But you could have a discussion about exactly how hard those and again, what are we really talking about here? A scenario where the Celtics maybe win the play in tournament and then play in Cleveland or New York or Orlando and in the first round and they certainly wouldn't be expected to win and just probably put a heck of a scare into a team that here's the beauty of this year. There's no pressure on the Celtics. The pressure is on everybody else because everyone's oh well, Indiana's not there. Boston's not there. So the east is wide open. Only one team can win the East. So some there's a lot of teams headed for the Celtics aren't going to be in that conversation on NBA Today when Malika opens the show on February 6th and has bond temps and Brian Windhorst on and says what's wrong with the Bucks, Magic 6, whoever it happens to be that isn't filling that void, you're out of that conversation. You don't have to worry about that conversation this year. The pressure is on whoever the Celtics would be bringing Jason Tatum and company and into play in the first round of the playoffs, the pressure is going to be entirely on them.
- [38:24]
B
Before we move on to this ownership breakdown that I just keep teasing again, Tatum spoke with what felt like everyone under the sun during the week. Was there anything we've hit the high notes, obviously, but from all these conversations that have been aggregated at this point that I'm sure you are very much on top of, was there anything that he said that caught your attention that we haven't gotten into?
- [38:49]
D
Well, it didn't. It caught my attention that he talked about it. It didn't catch my attention. The fact that I didn't know it was going on. Just how emotionally difficult this experience was. And as almost everyone who suffered these potential, these career altering injuries, which in some cases have been career ending injuries, not something you think about as a young man when you are king of everything that you see this. These do not your basketball mortality is not something you deal with things in real life. Basketball mortality is not one of them. You're dealing with at 26 and 27 years old, especially when you're one of the best players in the world. So my I know everyone's concerned about Jason Tatum's Achilles. They should be and Jason Tatum the player. But that's not what I thought of or what I took away was how, you know, proud I continue to be. One of the greatest parts of this era has been watching the men that Jalen and Jason have grown into the fascinating duality of the two of them and that I think they are a little bit more alike than you think that I think they each look across at the other's life a little bit and say, boy, if I didn't have this going on in my life, I kind of wish I had a little more of that. Because they have two very different lives, but they are. I remember having this conversation with IME years ago, just we would shake our heads. These guys at 22 and 23 had this level of emotional maturity. So to watch him, you know, as a man, and I think be able to talk about that all playing into what I think whatever the magical night is, it's going to be really special when he comes back on the court. Not because we're going to get to see him play again, because we've been treated to eight years of it, and we're going to be treated to a lot more. But I'm just so freaking happy, you know, I'd say 90% of the conversations Jason, I've had over the years have been about being dads. And I did an interview. It lives somewhere. I remember saying, in the second round of the playoffs a couple years ago, I did one of these interviews where occasionally I'll say something that ends up happening. And I remember saying something like, you guys all realize in a month and a half, Jason Tatum's going to be holding up Deuce on the court, you know, with the championship, like with the trophy. And that these moments that were ahead of us, because that, to me, was the thing I was looking forward to most, is watching him celebrate it with Deuce and celebrate. Because that's where you want to see Jason Tatum joyful. You watch him playing basketball or being with his son or being with his kids or both. Right. And that, to me, to be able to. Him sharing that, in answer to your question, sharing that, being so comfortable talking about it, was it just sort of maybe nod my head, like I'm. I'm glad he's comfortable enough with the world to let them and let the world see that side of him that a lot of us are lucky enough to see on the inside.
- [41:45]
B
Yeah. And for anybody that missed it, too, just some of the specifics that, you know, you know, Tatum has spoken on, which, again, there. There have been some really good conversations out there. I know that Tatum has repeated himself a lot with respect to the. I haven't put a date on this, or I've got a goal in mind for that. I haven't said I'm not playing. I haven't said I Am playing, like, all the basketball stuff, but the stuff that you're talking about, him saying that, you know, in the immediate aftermath that going through his mind, like, are the Celtics about to cut me? Like, have I played my last game in that uniform? Because, like, you.
- [42:16]
D
He.
- [42:17]
B
He even acknowledged, like, you know, these are. I'm using my word, not his, but same sentiment. Like, these are stupid things to worry about. Like, of course they're not going to do that. But in the moment, that's where my head went, you know, because it's like, am I done? Like, if. Is my career over? Is my Boston career over? And he said to bring up Deuce. Like, even. Even, you know, I. I said to Deuce at one point, you know, like, do. Do you believe. I don't remember the exact what wording, but it was the. The to paraphrase it, it was. Do you believe that, you know, daddy's gonna come back and. And be, you know, just fine? Or like, is. Do you worry that I'm not gonna. Kind of thing? And Deuce is like, nope, like, not. Not a concern. You know, and he said. He's like, it's. I just. In that moment, I really needed that. And, you know, obviously, in his kid being whatever he is at this point, six, seven years old, it's. Yeah, I mean, it's some of that stuff that I. I agree. And maybe it's, you know, you being a dad, him being a dad, me being a dad, any of the dads out there listening. It's some of the stuff that you just. It, I don't know, warms your heart or you react to in a different way than just the typical, hey, we're fans of the guy, and we're fans of the laundry.
- [43:27]
D
Let me say something I 95% sure nobody else said. I haven't heard it said when talking about this and Jason Tatum's emotional reaction. What happened in Jayson Tatum's first five minutes as an NBA player?
- [43:41]
C
Gordon Hayward.
- [43:42]
D
Gordon Hayward. Gordon Haywood's life change, you know, right in front of him, like a couple, as it happened in front of all of us. But it happened a couple of feet away from Jason Tatum in his first five minutes in an NBA game. He watched an elite player have his life and career changed. So course, crazy thoughts are going to come flying into your head when that moment happens to you. I didn't know. You know, it's funny. You guys like to talk about the camera being on us all the time now. So suddenly I can. I get to see my reactions to Things. And obviously that was a clip that got played a lot. And people said, well, you didn't say it wasn't our job to speculate. Did I know what happened the second it happened? Absolutely, absolutely. And I, I remember looking down, you know, you're calling the rest of the play went down to the other end. And the non contact element, I don't know if I inadvertently flashed back to Gordon Hayward or whatever, but I. You knew what it was the same way with Halliburton. I turned to my wife the second Halliburton happened, and I said, that's Achilles. You know it now. And you knew that everything. I think what the Gordon Hayward thing taught me, if I didn't know it already when calling that is that this thing is so fragile. And you think, you know, as we're going to go into a season in which OKC is going to win 78 games and win the championship and not lose the playoff game, guys, we just. Everything is so fragile. I had done an interview that afternoon in Cleveland saying something along these lines that, you know, hey, it's opening night. We don't know what we know. Something always happened. Five minutes into the season, something happened that changed that NBA season. Not just Hayward's career, it altered, you know, alter the reality of the Celtics and Tatum and Brown. I mean, the, the sliding doors moment of the Gordon Hayward injury for the Celtics is very significant because it led to this amazing year in 2018. But it set the foundation for that calamity the year after. Like, none of this stuff was supposed to happen. The entire Gordon Hayward. People forget the entire Gordon Hayward experience. Like he was gonna. He is gonna be the guy. He and Kyrie and you had Al Horford here. Everything changed. And that. That can happen. You know, you don't want it to happen, but, you know, if someone's listening to this back midway through the season, somebody got hurt right in the first half of the year. It always happens. Somebody got hurt that you counted on to be an mvp. And we know who all those guys are right at the top of the league this year. What could happen. OKC could win 78 games because they're that good. But they're not gonna. Because that's not how this works. You know, Giannis, everyone's right now, Milwaukee, Giannis could become and have another MVP season and drive them up into the 50 wins in this wide open Eastern Conference. We're all counting on, you know, Atlanta or Orlando or Detroit. We know full well one of those three teams is going to miss the playoffs. And be colossally disappointing. Why? Because it's the 20 my 28th year in the league and in the previous 27. Something like that always happens. So therein lies the beauty of at least if we start this year as Celtics nation not looking at it as championship or bust. There's a real exhale freedom that comes with having this year. So enjoy it. Because you heard Bill Chisholm at the press conference on Thursday. You know full well that this is going to go right back to championship or bust next year. So let's enjoy what this year is while the new ownership gets its feet under him and hopefully Jason Tatum literally gets his feet under him on March 4 or whatever it is.
- [47:25]
C
I don't want to go too far down this rabbit hole, but I just want to mention the fact we brought Hayward up in that season. I don't think people obviously people watching this show probably get it but people that aren't SEAS fans. I don't think people understand the amount of joy I had watching that team in the preseason. Just wipe the floor with everybody when they were healthy they were forget that.
- [47:44]
D
They were killing teams whipping the ball around amazing.
- [47:49]
C
Like that's why that was so devastating because the the you had a very preseason windows like this big. It's like nothing in the minutes that you get of real trying NBA basketball between the guys that matter is again very, very small.
- [48:03]
D
Evan, they didn't if you remember Brad didn't even want to play. Like you're so afraid of guys getting hurt. It looks so good right now. You almost like let's just get to the season. He was literally like sitting guys for a big portion because you saw five minutes of that you're like we're good.
- [48:18]
C
Did they have a game at UMass?
- [48:20]
D
Yes. Yeah I'm pretty sure that was a UMass year. And it was those games those ones really mixed together in your head. Like when one year we were in North Carolina one year when you were in all those crazy locations you had back in the old days. We remember we used to play eight preseason games back in the olden.
- [48:35]
C
Right. I think I was in the Mullen center for that game when they played at UMass because it was like my buddy and I went it was like we were watching. We've never saw the height of was amazing.
- [48:46]
D
Gordon Hayward was one of the best players in basketball before he got hurt it was and he was on a trajectory and Gordon Hayward is someone you didn't think of him this way. Gordon Hayward was one of those Mamba, Kobe, cold blooded Killer guys.
- [49:00]
C
Yeah.
- [49:01]
D
I mean this was going to be a serious potential Celtic number retire guy. Like this was going to be a significant thing. And again like most things becomes a forgotten part of history.
- [49:14]
B
Plus the excitement of him. You know the reunion with Brad Stevens and all of that. The. I mean if, if I'm. I'm trying to think now. I mean obviously when Al Horford joined it was oh my God, this is the. Because of the stature of the contract and everything. And it was like this is the biggest free agent the Celtics have ever signed. And then Horwood, the Horwood Hayward supplants that. And I don't think there's been a bigger one since. Because Kyrie Irving was a trade.
- [49:44]
D
No. And you haven't had by the way let's not go down largely because I.
- [49:47]
B
Mean you didn't have the money.
- [49:48]
D
You know since the great, the great myth of the Celtics never got a friend. The Celtics Celtics never had cap room ever. Ever. And the first time they had it Al Horford came. So it's a fun narrative but it doesn't really fit. You got to look at do teams have cap room that decides land of free agent or not. And by the way this are. Is Boston going to be a destination and let's say you get under the second you get where you want to be salary wise and everything that they were talking about at the press conference on Thursday which is how you have to approach this. Put yourself back in position for the next generation of Porzingis's and Derek Whites and whatever. Whatever those deals are in a year or two or three. Putting yourself in position for those. That's the thing that, that you know that matters and guys are going to want to come to. Why wouldn't you want to play with Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown play with this building. If everyone said people don't want to come to Boston previous generations you've now had an entire generation in which things fans are seeing TD Garden which apparently will be the home for Right. A long period of time. Leading announcer whatever.
- [50:53]
B
Well so let's. That's. That's a good segue to kind of just. We won't spend too long on. On the ownership press conference because honestly there wasn't a whole hell of a lot there. But for anyone that missed it, didn't listen.
- [51:03]
D
That's a good Gil Santos talk. Yeah.
- [51:05]
B
There was some good legend rip for sure. You can by all means if you missed any of Bill Chisholm and Wick Gross back the other new alternate governor Brad Stevens all These guys, Rich Gotham, all the, all these guys that were at the podium talking, by all means, check out the CLNS Media YouTube page. It is there for you in full. It is where I listen to it after the fact and so quality is great. Do check it out and if you're ever in need of checking out past Celtics beat podcasts or current ones, future ones, whatever, CLNs YouTube page again, the all access page specifically where you can find our show and clips from our shows and other great shows across the network. We encourage it. But this is a good way to sort of kind of tie everything together, Sean, because as you said, coming up upon year 25 with Cedric Maxwell and Max was on with us weeks, months ago at this point. But it was when the Chisholm news kind of broke and Evan I, we were chatting with him and, and the sentiment that we all sort of shared was, all right, Bill, just don't F it up. Basically, you know, it was like, don't, don't F this thing up. And this is before the Tatum injury and all the second apron panic and everything that has happened since. But it was sort of us leaning into the. Okay, he's from around here. He says he's a die hard fan and he's, you know, referencing the Isaiah Thomas teams and Kill Santos now. And he's a Bobby Manning and Abby Chin super fan and all. Like, he's, he, he's, he's doing the dance, man. He is, he's saying all the right things. But there were also some things in the press conference that I think are at least, I don't know, notable if you want to be a skeptic. Right. You know, him like he, he was asked about spending going forward and said, you know, well, I've told them go for it reasonably, you know, be reasonable about it. Like what, you know, so what does it all mean? And, and, and who has final say? Let's say that you want to do something and everybody around you. The other seven, eight people all vote one way, you vote the other. You know, whose call is this? Can they overrule you? I have final say, meaning for all the people, Evan, I were talking about before the show. For all the people say, like, well, if, if Bill decides, you know, this isn't. He's not doing something in the best interest of the fan base. Wick is going to step in. He's going to save the day. He can't, he can't. This is up to Bill Chisholm at this point in time. So look, I'm not Going to ask you to one, badmouth the guy who hasn't done anything wrong yet or bad mouth a guy.
- [53:34]
D
Why not? This is the Internet.
- [53:35]
B
Or badmouth the guy who's influential and in you holding the post that you hold. But what concerns should we have, if any, about this new ownership group and anything that came out of the press conference?
- [53:48]
D
Well, I certainly wouldn't be concerned about anything that came out of the press conference. I didn't interpret it the way you did. When he said be reasonable, I took that as a specific reference to the rules that allow you, you have to get into the position to spend the money before you can spend the money. And I thought I'll tell you, I'll tell you a couple things about it. I'm not going to tell you what I texted Bill and I texted after the press conference. I thought he did really well and I thought he did especially well once he, he made opening remarks and he was reading them. Yeah, I thought when Bill Chisholm threw those away and was done with them and was just Bill answering the questions honestly, I thought everything completely changed and you just, you got a taste of, of the guy. I think they're the paranoia that somehow there's going to be some sort of philosophical change about winning from Wick to Bill Chisholm. I don't know where that comes from other than just general fear. And I tell you what, I thought Wick had a great moment when he didn't have to stepping in to explain that not only what the rules are, but that I helped make those rules. You know, these are the, like, these are the rules that box all the teams in the league is now set up where if you have a run like the Celtics have had, where you go to, I don't know, 10 conference finals in 25 years while the next big don't get to one, while you go to the finals twice while you're a championship contender for eight of the last 10 years, it is literally designed to stop that from happening. So the cell talk about fighting against the tide and is it bad luck or whatever that Bill Chisholm comes in at an exact time that you have to do that, that you have to take the step back? Yeah, but I don't think he cares because if you heard him on Thursday, he's very clearly talking about 5 years from now and 10 years from now and 20 years from now. And I thought he was as honest as you can be about things like wnba. He could easily have said we don't. We haven't looked at anything involving T.D. gardner, the WNBA. And he, you know, I think has that natural thing which can be dangerous if you're someone like me who is. Can offer advice to people media wise, he comes across very much as someone who wants to answer questions maybe more than you need to. I know from a media standpoint, a fan standpoint, you want all that stuff, but I. I think Brad was like that at first, too, where you're trying so hard to diligently and honestly answer the questions. And I think he was. I think he was doing that. I think he came across as, you know, pretty genuine. And he answered. That was a tough question at the start. Corrales came right out with his ace in the hole, which is, who makes the decision if there's eight people, you know, he's willing to ask that question for months. Right. If there's eight people in the room and a decision has to be made and he could tell. Bill didn't really want to say it, but he said it, which is, it's my decision. I'm gonna make it. And by the way, that's the way it should be. And If I spent $7 billion, yeah, I would want final say, too.
- [56:50]
C
And I think he tap danced around it. Well, it's like, well, first off, I'm not just gonna ignore what everybody else says in the room. You know, obviously they're going to take everything under advisement and talk about stuff.
- [56:59]
D
Stuff.
- [56:59]
C
But, yeah, like, yeah, you pay $7 billion for a team, probably gonna have final say. I just think it's. It's interesting having Wick be a part of this whole thing still. I think there's, like, good things and bad things about this. There are great things. Because I think nobody has a higher approval rating in the city of Boston. And Wick Grosbeck right now, like, I just don't. I don't think any owner. I think he's. I think he's way above levitating, above everybody else by, you know, atmospheres and strangers and having him be a part of. I think makes people feel more comfortable with. With Bill, because when crochet is pitching.
- [57:36]
D
Game 1 of the series in a couple weeks, or.
- [57:37]
C
I said it's the ownership group. I don't think anybody likes John Henry right now.
- [57:42]
B
You don't think so?
- [57:43]
C
No, I don't think a lot of people like John Henry right now. Just. This is more of a. I'm not gonna even. You know what? We're gonna put that over here. We're not gonna do that. I do think having Wick around makes people feel more comfortable with, okay, there's a voice that everybody's sort of familiar with in the room who we know is a die hard Celtic fan. We know that he worked his ass off to try and build a. A contender, a winner. He's Kaufman. How many shows have you and I had over the years where it was like, I'll believe Wick, he's going to spend money when he finally does it. And then he went on, did it and they won. They won an NBA title like he. He did back it up eventually. So I think having him around is good, but having around could be bad as like a power struggle sort of situation where, you know, Wick, who's been there, done that, versus a guy who paid $6 billion in the team. Do you see that ever becoming a problem between these two guys, or is it too early to tell that right now?
- [58:35]
D
It's a. Well, first of all, it's way too early to tell anything. It's a. It's a very fair question because historically this does not work. Right. We're gonna see what happens with Genie Buss. We saw what happened to Mark Cuban. Yeah, historically, this does not go well. But as you just said, you people have preconceived notions and then sometimes they're surprised. You know, the previous ownership group, that's the difficult part for Bill coming in here, is that the previous ownership group won a championship. They won two championships. And they, as you said, their approval rating should be that high because they did what, you know, wicked pags and everybody did everything that was required to. To win. The pieces fell into place and there's no reason to believe. I think the other thing that was important to point out, Brad has sort of indicated it, and Wick said it flat out today, which again, he didn't have to do, making it very clear this would have happened anyway if there was no sale. And I think most people, particularly if you're this far into a podcast, you certainly get this. This was going to happen. If there was no sale. Porzingis holiday under the second apron, this was happening. The only way that it wouldn't is if Jason Tatum injury doesn't happen. If the Celtics had won last year, which up until the minute that injury happened was still in play. The. I think the, the pressure to try to win a third, you know, who knows? We'll never know. Right. But you would have had to go for it if you had, because nobody has done that, obviously, in the. This, this modern era, so. But once it didn't this was going to happen. It didn't matter of Wick or Bill or Pags or anybody on the team. You had to make this move. It is a financial requirement. It's a fiduciary responsibility to the franchise. It's business malpractice to not go under the second apron for the Celtics at this time. And it's going to happen to the Thunder. It's going to happen to everybody that makes the kind of run the Celtics just made. And most teams won't ever get close.
- [60:34]
C
Is that a good thing?
- [60:36]
D
Now? That's a whole nother. You know, if you're a Celtics fan, it's not. Yeah, I think history, history will tell us that right in. In 30 years if, if you're, if the league gets so healthy, if the NFL. Listen, if the NFL has Green Bay and Jacksonville playing in the Super bowl, sure, 80 million people are still going to watch. Right now there are friends of mine at Fox who are staring down the barrel at a Milwaukee, Toronto, Milwaukee, Seattle World Series. And that does not, right now, in 2025, have the same cachet that a Yankee Dodger series is going to give you. So where are we? Are we in the NBA or an Indiana, Oklahoma City final? Financially, we can't use ratings anyway. Everything's changing, obviously, with teams, TV ratings and. But is that. Is the NBA strong enough? And you can have Indiana, Oklahoma City one year, Orlando, New Orleans the next year. Is the league, are we as a league at a strong enough point to have that happen? Or do you still need Boston, New York, the Lakers to be around the championship? That is the question that your question begs, which is, is it a good thing for the league? It's like most things we're not going to know, you know, we're not going to know for generation. There's revolutionary stuff happening here. A league in Europe, NBA expansion, the television landscape in the league is in the middle of changing. That's the biggest thing I think a lot of you guys have to worry about now is just knowing what night is on prime and what night is on Peacock and figuring all that out. So again, another great thing for Boston fans to have a gap year so you can just figure that part out, like which of the games that are only going to be on prime on Monday night and which you know. So a lot of the things are, is it a good thing that the second apron doesn't feel like it if you're a Celtic fan, but it feels like it if you're a fan of the Orlando Magic? Because all Of a sudden you're, you're the Detroit Pistons and you got these teams out of the way. It feels like it for a lot of other teams in the league. I don't think think even the die hardest of die hard Celtic fans has a true appreciation for just how absurdly good the Celtics have been for the last decade and particularly for the last four years in which they've been what, 12, 14 games better than the second best team in the league. It's been absurd. And I go back to the 25 years thing because as I sat at Madison Square Garden walking around courtside talking to a bunch of Knick fans in the media that you can probably imagine in your head the people I was talking to to enjoy this night because I felt pretty strongly the Knicks were going to win game six and to understand that Max and I got to call 10 conference finals while the Knicks didn't have one is, I mean, how greedy do you want to be? So I don't know if it's going to be a good thing for the league, but so far the league, league is pretty darn healthy. Notice how nobody was talking about TV ratings very much after the election was over and second half of the year came. So league couldn't be much healthier than it is right now.
- [63:44]
B
I'll leave with this before we wrap, but something we didn't have time to get to that you brought up to me over text earlier. And I just thought it's, you know, it's an interesting talking point very quickly. I don't spend a long time on it. We could, but we won't. It's particularly interesting because we have Grandy here with us because he's, you know, close with the man to whatever degree he'll. He'll admit. But Ev, one of his takeaways, and I'll let Evan really kind of team you up for this, but one of Ev's takeaways from that presser today is that is something I've been saying on this show.
- [64:13]
D
I love this builder. This is a great building.
- [64:16]
B
Thank you.
- [64:16]
C
It's really gonna be a build dud here.
- [64:18]
D
It's not.
- [64:19]
B
It's not a dud. It's, you know, we've talked about this on and off and I, I wholeheartedly agree.
- [64:24]
D
Which is not Roman Anthony, it's not Jake Paul. I'm trying to imagine what this is gonna be.
- [64:28]
B
It's Black Rabbit. How much do you enjoy Jason Tape, Jason Bateman and T. Tatum Bateman in this, you know, severely coked out role.
- [64:37]
D
What A second half of a career Jason Bateman has had, by the way, until, until the rest of development stuff. I had no idea. I remember watching Arrested Development when it first came on. You're like, oh my God. I had no idea he was, I was not familiar with your game.
- [64:52]
B
Yeah, no, he's. We could do a whole podcast on Jason Bateman. Then maybe he'll come on and we can cross promote Smartless. It'll be great. No, the. Where I was going is that Brad Stevens is never leaving. Or at least if he's leaving, it's. It's not to go coach again. He has found great comfort in the role that he has and he's awfully damn good at it. We know that. But Evan, I don't know if you want to.
- [65:16]
C
I was watching the press conference today and they asked Brad his first question. And Brad's in there smiling like an idiot, like, just grinning from ear to ear, enjoying every bit of this because he doesn't have to. I, for me, it's like he's soaking it up. This is his life now. He doesn't have to coach anymore, he doesn't recruit anymore. He just has to sit there, team build, be a part of the, you know, day to day basketball operation stuff. I just. Every year we have ex college coach position becomes available and Brad Stevens is automatically the hot name. And you know, whether it's, you know, and look, I love Jeff Goodman, he's a good buddy of mine. But Jeff, you know, is Brad Stevens eyeing this job like, no, Brad. For me, Brad is never leaving. Just the, the face that I saw today looked like a face of a guy who's like, I am still, this is still my job. This is still my job. I get to do this all the time. This is great.
- [66:09]
D
I'm.
- [66:09]
C
Ask me any question you want. This is fantastic. Because I know he had talked about how hard coaching had become in college and the recruiting, trailing to spend time with his family as much and all that stuff. Coaching in the NBA is different. And I'm not saying Brad is a good coach. I just think it just so happens he's probably better at this job because he's, he understands how to build teams. From being a college recruiter to now he's just trying to figure out how to. What trades to make to make this team better. I just, I saw a guy today that didn't want to leave. I just, I loved it as a guy who doesn't want Brad to go anywhere.
- [66:43]
D
Was that a question?
- [66:44]
C
Do you have any read on that?
- [66:51]
B
Am I right?
- [66:52]
D
That was right up there with talk a little bit about.
- [66:54]
B
Yeah, I hate that.
- [66:57]
D
Yeah.
- [66:59]
B
Do you ever read on that? Two of us seven minutes later.
- [67:05]
C
Well, I told you it was gonna be a letdown after Adam, like. I don't think it's a letdown.
- [67:08]
B
I think. I think it's a good. I think it's a good point.
- [67:10]
C
I think we landed the plane on this.
- [67:12]
D
I'm only. Again, I always take that first step back before the. With the aggregators. What's. Is. He's not. I get the feeling Grandy, like always, is going to say something other people don't say. So you seem to have made up your mind that Brad is here forever and that he's not going to coach again. And that seems to be your read. Let me ask you this.
- [67:31]
B
Basically, Red house.
- [67:32]
D
Let me ask you this. Did. What's your take on. No, let me ask you a real question. Were you caught completely off guard when Brad Stevens was named coach of the Celtics?
- [67:43]
C
Oh, I know where I was. Yeah. I was completely off.
- [67:45]
D
Were you caught completely off guard when Brad Stevens was named as Danny Angel's replacement?
- [67:50]
C
Absolutely. Yeah.
- [67:51]
D
Are you going to be caught completely off guard? It sounds like you will be. If Brad Stevens decides one day he wants to go back and finish what he started. And by the way, is he now even more qualified and more in demand to run a college program now that it's. You basically have to be a general manager, too, in addition to recruiting? Is he not an even better candidate than he was before? I. I think that Brad is really comfortable with Bill, and I think he wants one more bite at the apple, as everybody does to. What's the next challenge for the Celtics is to overcome the rules, overcome the second apron, overcome the Tatum injury and get back there. But does that rule out the idea? You know, Bradstone, he's not even 50 yet. So does that rule out the idea of him one day doing something completely different once? Remember the beauty of this job for him, forget the professional benefits of it was being around his kids.
- [68:51]
C
Yeah.
- [68:51]
D
As they grew up. As Adam can start to attest, as I can start to assess as I approach my son's 14th birthday. There comes a time when the kids aren't gonna want to be around you as much. You're not as cool as you used to be. And you're talking about, hey, my job here is done. There comes a point with that parenting wise, too, as far as being around your kids all the time. So I don't rule out the idea of Brad doing anything that he wants to do. Because I think two major times in his life the world said what Brad Stevens is going to do that job and he knocked out of the freaking park both times. So that is my. What's my read on. That's my read.
- [69:37]
C
There we go.
- [69:38]
D
Yeah.
- [69:38]
B
I think just again, quickly, before we sign off, I think really the question is not do you think it will happen, but do you in I don't know, just in knowing Brad, I'm not saying you've ever talked about it. Do you think there's even the slightest bit of him that wants to do it?
- [69:56]
D
Yes, because I think there's the slightest bit of him. That's a. That's an awful low bar to set.
- [70:04]
B
Sure.
- [70:05]
D
It's like, are you asking me is there any part of me that wants to call Major League Baseball or do you. Any part of you that is. Wants to do things that you haven't gotten to do yet?
- [70:16]
B
Sure.
- [70:16]
D
Or that left things unfinished or whatever. Of course. Of course there's a little part of you that wants to do it. Doesn't mean you don't have the greatest job in the world or you. That he's doing an unbelievable job at it and is going to continue to do it for many years to come and very possibly for the rest of his life. But you're asking me, is there a chance that he wants to do something else? Is there a chance he wants to coach again? Is there a part. There's parts of him that want to do a lot of things. So nothing. I'm done being surprised in my life at what Brad Stevens decides he wants to do.
- [70:51]
B
Not much we didn't cover today, boys. This is a fun one. A deep dive with the long time just about 25 year voice of the Boston Celtics, Sean Grandy, who I can't believe it had been such a long time since he had been on the show, since all the way back to the postseason. Rest assured, the next one for yourself.
- [71:09]
D
Too bad because I had all these great Jonathan Kaminga texts.
- [71:12]
B
It will, it will not be as long the next time around because I mean if it is, would put us in Tatum's return. And who wants to wait for that? Got to hit it a lot sooner than March 4th for Sean Grandy who again is on Twitter at Sean Grandy, PBP and somewhere else. Let me know if you can find it. Evan Valenti, I am Adam Kaufman. We thank you for listening to the program again. Rate, Review subscribe wherever you get your podcast. If you want the audio version. If you want the video to see us, check out the Celtics beat page on the CLNS YouTube page, the All Access page. So many pages on CLNS and so many podcasts for you to devour as well. Patriots, Red Sox postseason. It's right around the corner, folks. It's coming, and Grandy is going to be locked in before Celtic season begins. Hoping there's a duck PO parade coming for the. For the Boston Red Sox. Granny, thank you so much, sir.
- [72:07]
D
You got it, my friends.