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- [00:01]
A
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A
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C
Massachusetts today is Saturday, October 25th and this is Celtics Beat on the CLNS Media Network, the leading online provider of audio video coverage of the Boston Celtics. I'm Adam Kaufman. Episode 647 features NBA Finals MVP Celtics radio voice Cedric Maxwell Valente and today's.
- [01:50]
E
Show is powered by Prize Picks. Prize Picks is the official daily fantasy partner of CLNS Media. Download the app today, use the promo code CLNS and get $50 in lineups when you play. $5.
- [02:11]
C
What's up everyone? Welcome in new edition of Celtics Beat, the first one of the season Season where the season is actually underway. I wish we had better news. We should be talking about a 1:1 team. I'm not surprised at all by what happened at MSG against the Knicks. But that first game against the Sixers that the Celtics decided to defecate all over themselves in the fourth quarter. That should have gone a different way with Evan Valenti, Adam Kaufman, and most especially one of our favorite guests. And he is a part of the CLNS Media network as well. C Cedric Maxwell, the former NBA Finals mvp. Although I don't know why I say former Max once you got it, it never leaves. You got that thing forever. How are you?
- [02:51]
D
Once you get the hardware, it's always there. I am doing fine, gentlemen, getting back from New York. And as you, you just alluded to, talked about the game against Philly and Celtics had that all but wrapped up and then just peed the bed. And but one thing we did see, we saw is key kid named Edgecombe. We talked about Andrew. Oh my goodness, it had some hops. He had elevation. When I said Andrew, Tony. But somebody went even further and told me, said, maybe you're talking about D. Wade. I said, whoa, D. Wade like we think D. Wade. Like. I mean, what. No, I know we're saying that with D. Wade, like the ability to shoot the basketball, the slash to penetrate, probably better three point shooter right now looking like, you know, D. Wade. But that one lob play that he got when he was running past the rim and caught it behind him and dunked it in, he was special. He, he, he is really special. So we, we saw that. But, you know, thing that bothered me was, yeah, Celtics kind of letting that one slip. And I think what you see again is this going to be a major problem. The Celtics have to find somebody who's going to rebound the basketball. And that's where you miss a guy like Tatum. You know, Brown has to step his game up rebounding. The Knicks got second and third and fourth chance opportunities in the game in New York where Philly came to town. They got too many opportunities. So Celtics going to have to remedy that in some way, some form or fashion.
- [04:29]
C
So, Max, there are a lot of things that we can get into as it relates to. Again, super small sample size, just two games, obviously, and the record, it's, it, it doesn't carry a lot of significance to people this year. There are some people that think, hey, the east sucks. They should be a playoff team almost by default when Tatum comes back. Because a lot of us, definitely, Evan, I believe that's happening at some point this year. Maybe you do find yourselves in position to actually upset the apple cart there in an Eastern Conference playoff run. If Tatum looks, you know, 95% of what he was pre injury. There are a lot of ifs that I'm introducing here. But when it comes to what we have right now, and some people are actively rooting on the tank so the Celtics can get their own VJ Edgecomb, if such a thing were even possible. But I think the, the, everyone wants to harp on the front court. We've been doing it for months on this show. And you know, the rebounding disadvantages and a lot of the different stuff that you just brought up Poor rim protection, all of it. We can expand upon that. But where I actually want to begin is the thing that's sort of driving me nuts that I think was pretty easy to foreshadow going into the year. Ev, how many times have I brought up, man, is Joe Missoula going to coach the same way? Are they going to play the same style of basketball where they're hucking up, you know, 45 three pointers in a game with considerably less individual shooting talent? This team does not have the, the personnel that it had last year max, to so heavily rely on the three pointer. Unless, I guess you just say, screw it, we're gonna have White put up a dozen a game. We're gonna have Jalen take eight, we're gonna have Pritchard and Simons each take eight to 10. And you just really lean into it like never before. I just, I want to see, as the season goes along, something different. A little more creativity, please.
- [06:36]
D
Do you have, do you have a post presence that you thinking about going inside? What, What? I wish. I'm just asking you. So what are you, what are you harping this on? You're saying.
- [06:46]
C
Well, you don't, you're saying there's just no alternative.
- [06:49]
D
I'm asking you, what is the alternative? What, what is it that you have a post presence? Are you saying, k, this the guy that you're going to go to in the paint all over and over again, letting him get 15, 16 shots? Are you saying that? I think, I think this Joe Missoula looking at the strength of this team where they can be like it, us like it, not like it, but I'm just trying to see. What side do you look at when you say you want to go inside and change the tenor of what you're doing? What, where, where do we go here? Because I'm looking at some of the players. I'm going. I don't see anybody that is, you know, has the post up skills of a Cedric Maxwell or Kevin McHale or. I don't, I don't, I don't see that out there. I don't, I don't see those guys that, that you want to lean into and say, this is what you want to do. I don't see that.
- [07:39]
E
So is.
- [07:41]
D
Well, go ahead.
- [07:42]
C
Yeah, of course.
- [07:43]
E
Well, I, I'd like to, I'd like to provide a counter to that, please. So, Kaufman, your, your, your first point is, I think, pretty valid. Like they're taking a lot of threes, they're not making a lot of them. I think if you separate some, some guys from the rest, like Jalen Brown 45, 46 from three to start the season, Sam Houser's 50%. So those two guys shooting pretty well. Derek White shooting 30, Payton Pritchard shooting 17, 19. And those are your main volume three point shooters for the most part.
- [08:20]
D
Right?
- [08:20]
E
We're not counting Shireman, we're not counting Ugo, not kind of Simon. Simon's is not shooting the ball well. So let's point out three guys haven't shot the ball well. I could make the argument that if Pritchard shoots his average they're 2, 0 and not owing to. I will also point out because I made a list of things I like, things I don't like and this just to add a little variety to the. They're not playing differently. Do you know they're outscoring their opponent in the paint each night they've played so far. So I would argue the fact that they might be shooting a lot of threes and not hitting a lot of them, which is true. The fact that they're outscoring their opponents in the paint the first two games with the roster they have is actually kind of remarkable because you, me, Cedric will admit this front court isn't ideal. And yet in two straight games against Philly without really Embiid and a Knicks team that doesn't have Mitchell Robinson and Cat is more of a perimeter guy than a back to the basket guy.
- [09:34]
C
He's hobbled too.
- [09:36]
E
That being said, Boston has outscored their opponent in the paint the first two games, which would tell me that this is a little different than what they've done in the past because they're not shooting as many three pointers as they normally would with the. They have. I think they're actually maybe leaning in a little different direction. It's a little push back on that for you there, Kaufman.
- [10:00]
C
You.
- [10:01]
E
I, I don't mean to bring on your parade, but I just want, I want to.
- [10:04]
C
Look, that's. That's what we're here for is if, if we were three people sitting around just agreeing about everything, that's not very good content. I. I want you to push back. If you have a valid argument, you supported it with numbers. So let me ask you, Max, let me, you know, build upon that. Do you feel like. Because look, I feel like I know what I'm seeing from time to time when I watch the game of basketball. So does Ev. You played it at the highest of levels and still obviously make it a career. Talking about It. So your authority over the two of us stands very tall. When you are watching this team through two games, you do you feel like you're seeing something dramatically different from what you saw over the last couple of years with obviously much different personnel. And in addition to that, is there anything you would like to see that's different?
- [10:49]
D
Well, the personnel has made you change what you do. You don't have the Porzingis at the end. You don't have that center, you know, shooting the three from the. You don't have Al Horford, those two guys right there. You don't have Jrue Holiday defensively. So your game has definitely going to evolve. Joe Missoula, before he walked out for the first game, I was having to be in the tunnel and he said, this is going to be a bumpy ride. He said, you know, but we're going to, we're going to mess it up. We're going to try to make it dirty. We're going to just play hard and try to play harder than our opponent. And that's one thing he has to do. But I think you also have to play smarter than your opponent. I think you have a very smart team, but, you know, you're gonna have to beat them being creative and also beat them. No. Maybe again, Derek White's not going to shoot that bad all year. Pritchard can't, can he? Or are we, or, or are we seeing Peyton Pritchard now go up against front line guys every single night? Is that, will that change, you know, the way he's been shooting the basketball? So there's some things in there that now, you asked me a question in the game against Philly, the last shot of the game, I would last two shots of the game. I somehow would have loved to see Jaylen Brown at least touch the basketball. Well paid, got both shots. I would like to see one that I would love to see supposedly the leader of your team right now at least touch the ball to move it, attack the rim, and then kick the ball out.
- [12:31]
C
So, like when you say supposedly, is, is that, is that in question to you?
- [12:37]
D
No, it's not in question. That's what it has to be. But I think that he has to step up to and rebound the basketball stats that he pick up. He has to be a more efficient rebounder. I think he's a willing facilitator of passing the basketball. But he also has to do. The big thing that you and I are going to talk about is not turning it over, not dribbling, not, not Trying to do the Harlem Gold trolleys and dribble through about five or six people, move the basketball via the pass. You're going to get it back and you're going to have better spacing. Sometimes you're not going to make that move to get through two or three quality guys. Defensively.
- [13:20]
E
Tatum figured that out. We'll call like two seasons ago, you know, where he started to really figure out how to manipulate the defense with the pass. And I think he's gotten exceptionally better at that as he's gotten older. Do you think, like Tatum taking the time to figure that out stunted Jalen in that regard? And I looked at some numbers this afternoon. I'm looking at Tate, looking at Jalen Brown. Potential assists so far this year, averaging 11 a game, which is pretty remarkable, right? If guys hit more shots, he's averaging more assists. I think there are certain parts of Jalen's game that have grown a lot. I think you saw that there's a dump off pass where Jalen was able to command two guys. Do a little bit of a, you know, gonna shoot it. But I see Keda right out of the corner of my eye, right at the basket in the dunker spot on the left side. I'll dump it to him for an easy dunk. I think some of the, of Jalen's game has evolved to recognize such patterns, and I think some of it hasn't. Do you feel like some of that's been stunted by. Well, Tatum had to learn this too.
- [14:27]
D
And I don't, I don't think so because he was, he was MVP in the playoffs. And what did he do? He was a facilitator. He made steals, he ran the floor, which it was Stunt your growth, not having those guys around you, we talk about the game is made a lot easier when you have Porzingis, when you have Holiday, when you have Tatum around you, it becomes much easier. I remember my second year in the league, I just beat myself to death. Average about 20 a game and 10 rebounds. Get Bird, man. My shots all of a sudden become easier. Got Mikhail, got Paris. Now you have to pick your poison. Defensively, what they do, they're overloading right now with Brown attacking him, and they're trying to make other people beat them. And so far, Peyton Pritchard, who's a really good shooter, has not shot the ball well. We, we saw Derrick White shoot some air balls. So I, I, it's just, it's going to be a work in progress for this team. I think all year Long of them trying to get balance. What I did like, I like Hugo the other day he was, he showed me something. I'm like, whoa. I mean, his basketball iq. Wow. Evan's just going with the hand thing.
- [15:42]
E
I want to get to that later.
- [15:44]
C
Ev's a fan. Ev is much like many right now who watch the Celtics. Ev is a fan of Hugo.
- [15:51]
D
Okay. Okay.
- [15:52]
E
I've watched a decent amount of Ugo with Real Madrid and there are certain parts of his game earlier. I want to save that for later because that's really positive and I want to push that because there's some things that need addressing more than Hugo Gonzalez playing more minutes. It's more about as you said. Look, this is a roster that is depleted of a lot of hall of Fame, all Star, all NBA talent. And this is what happens when you.
- [16:21]
C
Lose all that stuff.
- [16:22]
D
Yes, guys. So I think that we can talk until we're blue in the face about, well, Joe have to his games. The game's gonna have to change because you don't have the personality, you don't have the personnel, excuse me, to do some of the things that you did before. Like you said, Tatum could be a, a one man rebounding gang when he was in there and Brown could get out, leak out and run the floor. Or you have Porzingis to second line of defense, the last line of defense, blocking shots in the background or controlling the initial point of attack. When you had Derrick White together and Grant, Derrick White, what he was able to do and White together. And I said with those two guys before, I don't know when I put them together. I don't know if the Celtics have ever had two defensive guards better combined better than those two guys. Now anybody want to argue with me about the point? Tell me who those guys are.
- [17:19]
C
Max, you've been on this here, playing it for, for, for a number of decades. You've seen and played a lot of basketball. The last thing that you want to do, obviously, as you know, I don't know when you plan to retire. Hopefully no time soon as far as we're concerned. But it's got to be on your mind at least a little bit. You don't want to watch basketball on a night to night basis. So when you're watching these games during this retooling gap year for Boston, that honestly in the end may not be bad. Maybe it's a 45 win team that makes the playoffs and just isn't in the contender conversation as it has been in recent years. Even still night tonight you're looking for bright spots like an Ugo Gonzalez, by the way. But through these first two games, is there anything that's gotten you excited in spite of, obviously the outcomes.
- [18:05]
D
Just the building blocks that they can have, that they still have. The coverage is not bare, gentlemen. You know, you have a MVP in the finals. The COVID is not there when you have Derrick White, who was, you know, damn near all Star, Peyton Pritchard, sixth man of the year. And I think Joe Missoula is still a hell of a coach. So you have a lot of things that you can build on. It's just frustrating thinking about where you were last year in the beginning of the season, competing for a championship. And this year, looking at this team trying to retool and find itself, that's what's frustrating. I understand what Brad Stevens had to do, understand, you know, movement of players and money. You'd love to keep everybody, but that wasn't possible. You, you had drew holiday at 34 million this coming year. He's, he was starting there. You had Holiday, I mean Holiday at that price. Porzingis another guy who's going to be making big money. So you had to pare down the roster. And that's what ownership and management have Brad do. And I think he's done fundamentally what he wants to do. But, you know, I think everybody just has to be patient.
- [19:18]
C
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- [19:45]
E
Kaufman we are for the year up. We're doing great. Now that's important. Flex Play held us out a lot of weeks and guess what? Last week, once again, Flex Play.
- [19:59]
C
Thank you.
- [20:00]
E
Bail this out because we hit two out of three. We had the Stefan Diggs more than receiving yards, part of the lineup that hit the Cam Ward more than past attempts. That one hit. We came up short last week. Daniel Jones less than past attempts. He ended up throwing for more. So we had two out of three, which is one. Extra money comes back to us. Three more for your Flex Play. This will be a Saturday Flex Play sort of pick, but we're going to start again with the Patriots. Kaufman, Trayon henderson, less than 17 and a half rushing yards against the Browns. The Browns have one of the best defense in the league. I think they're number one in DVOA in running defense or rush defense. Traon has been a great year. I don't think it's going to go well for our guy Kaufman. I just don't think so. Moving on K otten tight end for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. We're going more than 4.5 receptions without Mike Evans. It's going to be a. It's going to be a struggle. Okay. Without Chris Godwin, even harder. I think K otten, if the Bucks are going to win that game, needs more than five four and a half receptions. We're going to stick with that. And then Kaufman, one of our favorite plays you could possibly ask for in any week for your lineup, the revenge play. And we maybe have Kaufman. The best revenge play of the year.
- [21:26]
C
Steelers Better than Mike Rabel going back to Tennessee.
- [21:30]
E
Better than Mike Brable going to Tennessee. Aaron Rodgers. More than 32 1/2 pass attempts is where we're going. Flex play 4 we get all three. 1x we had two out of three. I like our odds in this one. We'll see how it goes. And we've done two out of three for most of the week, so we've been able to hold steady. But getting your money from prize picks coffin couldn't be any easier. Little as 50 minutes. Watch roll in your account. Whether it's your bank account, debit card, Venmo, you name it, they do it at price fix.
- [22:04]
C
All right. So as I've said, the money, it rolls into your account awfully fast. Venmo, wherever it is, truly, it is simple. Download the app today. Use code CLNS to get $50 in lineups after playing your first five dollar lineup again, download the prize picks app. Do it right now. Do it while you're listening to us. If you're listening on the computer, use your phone. Download that app. The promo code CLNS. You get 50 bucks in lineups after playing your first lineup for only $5 prize picks. It's good to be right back here with Cedric Maxwell and Max again. We could. We won't in the interest of time, but we could go guy by guy talking about, you know, what we'd like to see from some of these players, encouraging or otherwise. Obviously, in this first start to the year, there was a lot of talk definitely on this show, I presume everywhere going into the year as far far as, you know, what are the expectations for Anthony Simons? You know, I said there's however unlikely there was there. There's a pathway and this is still true. It's been two games. There's a pathway to, you know, him being Boston's third sixth man of the year award winner in a span of four years. If you want to look at Vegas and the odds makers, Simons was a top three, top four guy in, in in terms of the odds going into the season because again you've got a. A volume scorer leading your second unit. Getting opportunity on a team that is replacing 80 points per game from last year at least until Jason Tatum comes back. First two games for Simons they've been you know. Eh. Right. I mean we saw 13 points in the first game, 5 of 10 shooting, 32 minutes. So it's not like the opportunity wasn't there. 27 in the second game, 10 points, 4 of 9 shooting. I think the biggest thing that probably surprises me is the lack of volume so far. You know we saw a grand total of 10 three point tries in two games for Anthony Simons. I think there are going to be games that we see him taking 10 threes in one game off the bench for this team. What have you thought of Simon so far?
- [24:14]
D
I'm like you, I think is incomplete right now. The judging, small sample size but the thing that you know he can put the ball in the basket and you know Joe Mazola when he's going to let him go or how he's going to harness what he has the second unit again of trying to find other guys to step up. A little disappointed some of the other guys, you know Charmin is a guy. I really love Charmin's game. I've said this about him before but he hasn't played. He hasn't played and he hasn't impressed Joe Missoula enough to put him into the lineup. And he's a guy I think can play play at a very high level. What I'm looking now is not necessarily basketball skills but basketball IQ and that's going to take you a long way with this team.
- [25:10]
E
Simons for a minute. There's a little Jalen Brown, Anthony Simons two man game going on here that subtly has happened. It happened more the next in the, in the, in the previous game against Philly where Simons I think understands how to use his off ball gravity to make Simon's life easier so Jalen can find him. And it's interesting because that repertoire between him and Chris Epps Porzingis was pretty quick like him and KP that first year. Tatum off the floor, you'd have white off the floor they'd have a couple of guys. But KP and Jalen kind of had their own two man game going on. And I'm seeing a little bit at the start with Simons and Brown. Like obviously we have so long ago, we have 80 games left, something to watch for at a certain point, let's say like if two guys have something going on where they just, they feel the rhythm of the basketball game off each other and they feed off each other so well. Is there a moment in time let's say like Simons and Jalen on the floor together result in a positive net rating. You know there's way too many numbers now looking all this data and it can get kind of convoluted. But these two guys play so well together. Is there. Peyton has been there, done that. He's been our guy. But given our current roster construction, it might make more sense to pair Simons with Jalen from the jump because that.
- [26:46]
D
Would have been possible because I think Simons is a bigger guy and could get a shot off maybe easier than Peyton Pritchard. So I think that you're going to look at a lot of different combos that Joe Missoula is going to work with and find a, and just find something that's very, very comfortable and or something that works for this team. I truly believe that's what has to happen.
- [27:10]
C
Max, let's get off the Celtics for a moment and talk about what's going.
- [27:14]
D
On in the NBA.
- [27:15]
C
Obviously with this gambling scandal that is happening right now involving. Not that there's any connection to Boston other than just the fact that these guys spent time here. Nothing shady happened during their time in Boston, but a brief former Celtic and more currently although on leave Portland Trailblazers head coach Chauncey Billups. You know he is, he has been, you know, take. Taken aside obviously for this role, alleged role in a, you know, poker rigging, poker games and uh, it's backed by the Italian. Yeah, backed by the Italian mob. All of that. And then Terry Rosier who been under for a couple of years now obviously for essentially taking himself out of games and, and encouraging people in his circle to invest in unders, in his prop bets, all of that.
- [28:14]
D
Please, let me, let me ask you the question though. This is what really puzzled me about the Terry Rose here thing. Do you have any friends? If I told some of my friends right now, you know, I want you to go out and, and make some bets and you think they can come up with $200,000 a bit.
- [28:33]
C
All right, so here's, here's my answer to that. Well, here. Here's. Here's my answer to that.
- [28:38]
D
Like me come up with $200,000 to bet.
- [28:43]
C
What? Yeah. So listen, I don't have that. Obviously, I'm sitting here doing this show with you. Right. But you're going to tell.
- [28:51]
E
You're.
- [28:52]
C
You. You've been in and around the league long enough. You're going to tell me that there. There aren't players in the league that, that have people in their circles that are entrepreneurs in whatever field are super successful. That like there. There are some of these guys that are multi. Multi millionaires.
- [29:07]
D
Very seldom that you have players normally have more money than their friends and they're built up like that. I didn't have. I never had a friend of mine that I could look at and going, yo, man, I got a prop that I want you to go and I might not play tonight, but you and Bill and Evan, y' all get up $200,000. Put that down. And. And as. As a prop bet and I'm not gonna play tonight.
- [29:36]
C
That.
- [29:37]
D
That was just strange to me. But it. And the real thing now is everything that Terry Rozier has done in the last four years, scrutinized where it started. This is where turnover happened. This is where I hate it for the game. I hate Max.
- [29:54]
E
We got guys going back to the 2018 Eastern Conference Finals and watching 00 miss like 0103 point range and saying, is this the time? Which I think is insane.
- [30:04]
D
It's really.
- [30:04]
E
Yeah.
- [30:05]
D
Ludicrous to come up with it. But obviously somebody knew something that happen.
- [30:12]
C
I'm just.
- [30:14]
D
Here's. I truly believe and I think this is going to happen. This. These aren't the only names are going to come out, of course gambling thing. There's no Terry Rosier reportedly. I mean, I think they said Chancellor Billups reportedly threw up throughout another dozen names of players and people like that. Who. And. And players like to do that. They like to go to private places and gamble and do things like that. Now why would you want to gamble if you're making, you know, $50 million a year? What you need to gamble on. But how many times have you seen players here, even in Boston go to the casino? They'll leave the game and go right over to Encore and play. So that's nothing unusual to me when you think about players and their competitive spirit and their adrenaline flows because of gambling. It's just the whole thing that about Chauncey was, you know, the glasses and somebody new and it was a machine that I'm like, you're talking about some. I mean, that, that seemed like some, you know, some spot spy that happened.
- [31:25]
E
Right?
- [31:25]
C
Yeah. Oh, X ray machines under the table to see the cards. Yeah.
- [31:31]
D
At that time when he has his glass glasses on, said, hey, let me take these glasses off. And now you're being seen by. That was mission impossible. It just, just behooves me to look at it like that. But I understand what they're saying.
- [31:46]
C
I just think this whole story, which is so far from over is fascinating because you've got the leagues, teams, Celtics included, among others, obviously networks that are all in bed with the sports books, you know, so that, like, I mean, I was. There was commentary on espn. They were talking about this story the other day where at the bottom of the screen they're advertising the ESPN sports book at, you know, like, it's just like this is, this is where we are obviously, like, the genie's out of the bottle. It's not going back in. But. And this is not, this is not new to like, you can go back to Shoeless Joe Jackson. Right. Like, gambling scandals in sports in general date back over a century. It's not new. But in the NBA, I mean, just consider, you know, the Jonte Porter fiasco last year. He's been banned for life. Malik Beasley is currently under federal investigation for gambling allegations, although shockingly not a target in this case. Rosier, as you said, has been under investigation for multiple years by the league. The league clears him, but the law steps in and says, just you wait. Gilbert Arenas, you know, accused of running an illegal high stakes gambling operation out of his house. Again, that's not sports betting, but it's another NBA guy, albeit in retirement. Tim got Tim Donaghy and the referee scandal that, you know, Netflix made a documentary about, obviously, was the. Maybe the biggest of all. And then the alleged conspiracy theories that, you know, Michael Jordan's first retirement stemmed from, you know, a looming gambling suspension. Like all. All this stuff has been out there to where I. You just. Do you ever wonder, especially as a former player, I know, like, it's. It's not wwe, it's not scripted outcomes, it's not rigged, even though sometimes it feels like the NBA draft is. But for Adam Silver and all these people to, you know, the default is always preaching integrity of the game and all of that. Do you feel like everything is on.
- [33:45]
D
The up and up? I really do. I've never been in that situation. And what I remember when I played was the fact that they Used to come to us. The FBI will come to us before each season. They would sit us down and they would say, gentlemen, this is what you can't do. If anybody calls you, asks you about somebody playing, have nothing to do with that. If this happens, you know, da, da da, da, da. On and on and on with all kinds of different things. Days. What is amazing to me is we talk about these prop bets. Well, it was just last year, Tatum was playing in the game, and all the Celtics were playing, but the Celtics lost that game. But late in the game, Jason Tatum got a basket and a rebound. And there were two guys on the front row that just jumped up and they were like, that would you say? And they will fall. And all of them had their phone. They were both of them pointing their fingers for whatever it was that they had just won. So how do you get the genie back in the bottle? How. How do you do that? Yeah, I need. Because if you have opened yourself up to prize picks and you got this and we got sponsors and all these other things that happen right now, closing that loophole is tough. Now, the thing I always, for me, NBA players, like, why would you. Why would you get in a betting scandal if you're terrible. Zero. You made $150 million. How can you. I don't understand it. Because you don't have enough money that you can pay me to. To do that in the game. I can see.
- [35:25]
C
Rookie.
- [35:26]
D
I can see if you're a rookie and you made whatever, 50,000 and somebody, well, I'm gonna give you a million dollars if you got a chance to play.
- [35:32]
C
But Max, you know, like, you know this better than I do. These guys live experience expensive lives like people. Antoine Walker went bankrupt. He lost all his money, famously. Like, you know, these. You know, I don't know what the situation is with Terry Rozier, obviously, but just because his contract earnings, you know, are. Are, you know, eight figures or whatever it is, it doesn't mean that's what he's got in the bank account.
- [35:54]
D
That's true. It really is true. But I just. But. But when I talk about this thing, they're talking about the scandal now. They're not saying the he made money. They're saying that he told his friends what to do for them to make money. I wouldn't jeopardize. If I had a friend like that that needed $200,000 and I've made 20 million, I'm like, I would give you the 200,000 instead of jeopardizing my career. That's the point that I'm making.
- [36:24]
C
I don't disagree with the point. I just. I wonder how dumb some of these guys are or at least how well.
- [36:31]
E
Judge Barclay said the other day. Barkley was on that the other day was like, these guys are morons. These guys are stupid. These guys are idiots like you. You know, like, just.
- [36:39]
C
Just because you're wealthy doesn't mean you're bright.
- [36:41]
D
Wait, wait, wait, wait a minute. Let's back up. Charles Barkley.
- [36:45]
C
Yeah.
- [36:46]
D
Same Charles Barkley that went to the casino and owed them all this money? Is this. Are we talking about the same person? Is that what you're saying? I want to make sure I'm clear here, because I love when God said somebody that's a dumb. I remember Shaq saying, well, you know, I'm. I'm ashamed. I'm embarrassed because I would bring nothing to my family. I love Shaquille o'.
- [37:09]
A
Neal.
- [37:10]
D
He's one of the best of all time. But if you're Shaq, can you say, okay, well, you're not bringing shame to your family, but you. You've had six or seven kids out of wedlock. Is that bringing. Is that. Well, I'm. I'm just asking. Is that a. Is that bringing pride to your family? I mean, I'm just. I. I just don't like people who are living in a glass house. The thrust. The thrust. Throw stones. You can't. You can't do that. Varsity. Gonna call people stupid. But he will tell you how many times he's lost. He said, I've won maybe five or six times. I've won a million dollars. But I tell you what, at least 15 times, where I've lost a million dollars. So where is it? You calling somebody dumb and stupid?
- [37:56]
E
Well, I. I didn't say that. Chat. You know, I want to know more about, like, so comes out later, then there's a lot of parties involved, and there's this underground gambling poker thing that's also happening. I want to know if you've ever been invited to an underground, illegal poker. High stakes poker game.
- [38:14]
D
The high stakes poker game I play is with my buddies. We play for $20. So if you're coming to get us and we put money on the table and it's $20, or somebody might win $200 for the entire night. Guys do that. I mean, I'm sure.
- [38:32]
C
No, but these, like. These are like the. The movie Molly's Game was. Was made, you know, after one of these things, like, celebrities famously doing this stuff.
- [38:40]
D
Never. I've never sat down with another celebrity beside me. Other than the charity, whatever these games have where, you know, you sit down at Foxwoods and they have a charity poker game or something.
- [38:52]
C
Yeah. We're not trying to trap you and put you on the FBI's radar.
- [38:57]
D
No, but I've never gone to anybody's house.
- [39:01]
C
Never been invited, though.
- [39:02]
D
I've never even been invited to another player's house. There was an article I was reading today. It was about Kevin, Kevin Garnett. He said that late. He said that he thought he was going to after party. Instead of going to the after party, they took him to a private poker game. He said he didn't even stay and he left. So, you know, there are guys who are going to be targets of this thing, man, and guys that we're going to. You're going to read about some other guys who are involved in this stuff. But, you know, it is, it's. How do you, how do you break that cycle? And I think you got football players, basketball players. Sean Grande, my broadcast partner was saying it was a guy in baseball that he was. He would throw his first pitch and it would be. He would throw it.
- [39:47]
C
Then we hit the group guardians. Pitcher.
- [39:50]
D
Yeah, he would throw a ball and everybody knew. Knew the bed on it. And that was a prop. That was a. And what did suspend him because he did that. So I mean, I don't know. I don't know how you're going to get the genie back in the ball. I don't know how you do that. But Cedric Maxwell has never ever been to anybody's house with another celebrity where they, where we bet big money. Now I can tell you, I can hear about Pete, I can tell you about my man Fred. I can tell you about Wayne. And we sit around, we play poker every, every other Friday and, and the most money gets exchanged in there is sometimes about 300. So, you know. You ever have any teammates though?
- [40:33]
E
So what anybody ever played with like big poker guy got invited this thing.
- [40:39]
D
I didn't even know. You got to realize when I played poker wasn't even like that, you know. You know, there wasn't even Texas hold them, none of that. Yeah, I played during the 80s. Texas holding was just coming around. Some of the big poker games were just coming around. So I don't think that anybody was anybody that I knew at that time was doing that. I, I could firmly believe if Magic Johnson or, or Larry Bird. Larry Bird ain't spending two damn nickels. So I know he wasn't. Yeah, yeah. Larry was no place Playing no damn poker. No place. No.
- [41:13]
C
Are you a. Are you. Obviously, you do the games on 98.5, the sports hub. Are you a station employee or a team employee?
- [41:21]
D
I'm both. I work for. I work for the Celtics. Have independent contract with them, but I also have a contract with the radio station.
- [41:29]
C
Are you permitted. I just mean legally. Are you permitted to gamble on the NBA or is it as a team employee of any kind just because of your access to information? It's not even allowed.
- [41:42]
D
You know what? I really don't know that, but I am. I am smart enough to know that. I'm not doing no. Like that. I'm not calling somebody up going, tatum's not playing tonight. So, hey, put down $200. I just got this information. I would never do nothing like that. Would never.
- [41:59]
C
You're not going D. Full Damon Jones.
- [42:01]
D
No, no, I'm not doing full Damon Jones. Trying to go in the locker room. Yo, man, you playing tonight? He ain't. Hey, he's not playing tonight. No.
- [42:10]
C
What was it?
- [42:11]
D
A.
- [42:11]
C
A prominent cat. It was when he was in Cleveland, right? LeBron, a prominent Cavalier is not going to be playing. You should bet on Minnesota, whoever it was.
- [42:19]
D
Yeah. So I would never know. I think that I'm allowed to go out and do prop bets and all that stuff, but, no, I would never do that. I would never want to jeopardize, Put myself in position. The look that Chauncey Phillips had coming out of that courtroom. You never. You never want to do that. I mean, I've seen that. I've seen that look before with different guys. I saw that look before when Kobe got caught with the rape allegations and he was on TV sitting beside his wife, and that was like, whoa. I just saw that same look when Chauncey Billups came out of that courthouse. And so I don't think anybody ever wants to be in that kind of situation that.
- [43:02]
C
Well, that's. That's a look of guilt.
- [43:04]
D
Yeah. And I'm sure that he is probably like, how could I be so damned up? And Chauncey just signed an extension. It's just not an extension with, you know, with Portland. So, yeah, you know, that. That contract is null and void. And now they're looking back at Chauncey's game saying, he took four guys out of this game. He didn't play. This guy here. This. This didn't happen. So I don't want nobody to scrutinize me or any of my teammates, you know, for what happened when I played. Philip, when we played Philadelphia in 1981. Did anybody scrutinize them for losing a 31 series? Did Dr. J turn all over late in the basketball game? How do we make a steal? How did this happen? We had two point games every night. No. So I, I don't want to even think that I was involved even slightly with that.
- [43:58]
C
It is kind of. We'll wrap with this because I will let Max go. But it's, it's just kind of sort of the revisionist history of the 2020 hindsight or whatever of it. If you probably remember going back a few years at this point when the Celtics were. After Brad was promoted to the front office in, in the role that he's doing so admirably now. Celtics needed a new head coach and the guy that I wanted was not IME Odoka, it was Chauncey Billups. And I know that he may left due to a scandal of his own, but can you imagine if, if Chauncey were at the center of this thing in Boston right now? I mean like this, this thing could have been hitting home. There's no doubt about it.
- [44:34]
E
You want to know what's funny? I, I honestly this is sound. That sounds stupid and maybe, maybe far fetched. I'm not sure if it would have happened. Chauncey's the, the head coach of a team that's in a different type of I. That stages their life.
- [44:48]
C
But then you're, but then you're suggesting he's only been doing it for like two years. I don't.
- [44:53]
E
He's only been coach for two years. Like he hasn't been coached for that long. Like.
- [44:57]
C
No, but what I mean is this, this whole poker situation.
- [45:03]
D
Poker thing on for a while. Right?
- [45:07]
C
Right.
- [45:07]
E
That's not, I don't think that's like.
- [45:09]
C
That didn't just start in Portland has.
- [45:11]
D
Gone on for a while where guys try to come in and play poker or whatever it is. And let me just say this. Basketball players or athletes in general are the worst poker players of all. No, no, no. I can tell you the reason. Reason why. And I play, I play poker. And the reason why I'm not as good is because I can. I want to play. Somebody punches you in the mouth with one hand. Now what you, as an athlete, what you've been taught to do is to respond immediately and punch harder. The, the best thing about great poker players is they won't play. They'll play. They'll. They'll miss ten hands. They'll read the damn book or something. Be on the phone or whatever. Up. No, not that hand. Up. Not that hand. Not that. Basketball players, football players, baseball players. I always been taught to be aggressive. In poker you have to be aggressive, but you have to be really smart and be very patient. And that's something that athletes aren't when it comes to playing cards.
- [46:14]
C
Noted.
- [46:15]
D
Duly.
- [46:16]
E
Whenever I go to Encore after a game and I see somebody there, I'm going to clean up because I know.
- [46:20]
D
They'Re going to be in pain. Very possible when I go there and play, you know, and now write this down. I don't even want to go there to play because I'm gonna get all these questions about am I someplace playing the high state poker thing. I don't, I've go, I go to Encore. I've been. Encore. I go up to Chasers in New Hampshire when it was Covid was around. And I just like to play poker because I have fun. And it's a controlled environment what they were in. They thought they were in a controlled environment, but the environment was being controlled by the mob, supposedly. And that is a very dangerous, dangerous thing for, for basketball players or a guy in Chauncey's position. Because now you're looking going, will he ever have another coaching job in the NBA?
- [47:07]
C
Yeah. I mean, yeah, he might be toast. Terry Rozier may never play another game. I mean the way.
- [47:13]
D
Don't argue.
- [47:13]
C
Just waiting for like Big Baby's name to come up in one of these depositions too.
- [47:23]
D
I don't think his name is gonna come up because I don't think he has the money to do it. Somebody I we talking about somebody who had to be established in a position to have big money at that time. And you look at the Garnett, you look at other, other players who have big money, who want them, but, but Big Baby didn't, has never been on that train where he's made that kind of money where he can go out and gamble at the stakes that they're talking about, supposedly.
- [47:49]
C
All right, let's wrap it there. But it's, it's always so much fun. We don't want it to end. Cedric Maxwell, finals mvp, longtime analyst on the Celtics radio network, has a podcast, the Cedric Maxwell Podcast right here on the CLNS Media network. He's a multiple time author, he does it all and he's kind enough to join us here on a Saturday night. Thank you so much, sir.
- [48:12]
D
Thank you. Thank you gentlemen. I'll give you a little tidbit. What's coming for me. I talked to Jason Tatum, I'm going to have him on my podcast. And I talked to Joe Missoula. So I got two things kind of in the Harper and I talked to Paul Pierce. So I got a lot of things kind of going back and forth that are going to be coming on my podcast pretty soon. But thank you guys for getting me back on. I feel like I've gotten back on the train now by starting the season off with you.
- [48:39]
C
Hell yeah, Max. I mean, we were texting about doing your podcast, too. I want to hop on for those chat with Joe and. And with Tatum. All of it. Let's party.
- [48:48]
D
All right, guys. Have a good one.
- [48:50]
C
All right, Max. The road trip continues at Detroit at New Orleans, Sunday, Monday for Max. For ev. I'm Adam. We'll talk to you again next time.
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F
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