Jack Simone (2:55)

I'm good.

Evan Valenti (2:56)

I'm good.

Jack Simone (2:56)

I'm excited. The season's back. It was a fun break for a minute in the summer, and then it quickly turned into, wow, I really want to watch basketball again. So I'm glad. I'm glad we get to do that.

Evan Valenti (3:05)

Yeah, man, you and me both. No question about it. I was, I was jonesing for it, like end of August, early September, and it's like, oh, thank God this is finally here. I will say football carried us a little bit to get into October here, which was brilliant. I do want to get into a lot of things. We got some stuff coming up. Get this trick or treat thing I'm going to do later in the show. We have some, obviously some. Some news to talk about with Baylor Shireman's extension being picked up. Get into that is option at least. We'll get into that briefly at the end. But before we get into the biggest win of the short season. Celtics beat the Cavs 125. 105. You do this thing that I absolutely love where you don't sit down because you do it standing with different Celtics guys and you have them break down film with you when you've done a couple of new guys recently? I saw the Josh Minot one very recently of the newer guys, part of this crew. The newer guys. Which one has really stood out to you because you had some of the summer and you again, you added mine out very recently. Anybody stand out to you in these, in these little breakdowns you do with them? It's a couple of minutes on your. On your Twitter channel. So make sure we plug that. Which is it@Jacksonville MBA is that. Yeah, the Twitter handle. Find it there. It's good stuff. It's great stuff.

Jack Simone (4:21)

Thank you.

Evan Valenti (4:21)

Who have you been most impressed with?

Jack Simone (4:24)

Most impressed with. I think the most entertaining one I've done so far was Jordan Walsh because he is just not unfiltered. That's not an unfair characterization. But like, there was one play I was breaking down summer league film of his game with like a Grizzlies player, and he was basically just like, yeah, that guy.

Evan Valenti (4:39)

That.

Jack Simone (4:40)

That guy messed up. Like that guy. I don't know what he was doing. Like, he's. He's just, like, trashing on a summer league player. Like, this guy's an idiot. Like, what is he doing? So, like, in terms of, like, my personal entertainment, I was like, this is hilarious. I love this. They've all been really good. Like, it's. I. I think it's a good way to sort of get the insight of what's going on on the court. Like, for as much as you and I watch basketball and love basketball, and as much as all the media can, like, try their best to break down exactly what's happening to, you know, show a player play and say, hey, like, can you explain this? You're getting it from the person that did it. So I. I think all of them really good. Mishked in particular, I thought was. Was really fun to talk to. He broke down sort of like, his positioning, you know, how long to hold screens, when to roll, when to pop his chemistry into pick and roll. So he was really good to talk to. Baylor Charman broke down some of the stuff he was working on. Amari Williams, Shashmada, Everyone was good. But I think the way Namishkada sort of explained to me, this is exactly where my position needs to be. This is what I was seeing. This is how I was doing it in real time. Like, that one stood out in terms of, like, okay, this is really good insight. But Jordan Walsh was the funniest by far.

Evan Valenti (5:46)

We're always looking for a little humor, right? We do this.

Jack Simone (5:50)

It's.

Evan Valenti (5:50)

It's when you're on the beat, man. Like, for those of you that don't understand, like, it's monotonous every day. You talk to the same people. Every day. You ask the same. Actually, almost every single day. So I can understand that somebody that breaks up a little bit be, you know, helpful. No question about that. I do want to get into this game last night, though, because, man, we're five games in, and it feels weird to say this, Jack, but this might be potentially the most impressive one of the year. Celtics 125. Cast 105. I'm not saying that they can't do better. It's just like, that was number one seed from last year. You have a team that, again, they were missing Darius Gar. Like, this is one thing that cracked me up about Doris Burke last night. This is. Not to get too crazy with this, but Doris Burke at one point last night, in the middle of the game goes, guys, don't forget they're missing Darius Garland, and they're missing Max Strus. And I'm like, okay, look, you know what? You can throw that out there. That's fine. Look, we all know that the Caesar, missing Tatum, like, that's. We've gone over that ad nauseam. But, like, come on. Like, they're missing Tatum, Horford, Porzingis, Holiday. Like, there's so many guys are missing. You guys, you want to highlight, they're missing Max Drew and Darius Garland, by all means, go for it with the Celtics. Great win. 125. 105 over the Cavs. And I do want to start here because it's such a big, big win. Small sample size for sure, and you can jack in a few different places in this game. You know, Jalen Brown paced the offense, came out 22 points in the first half. We'll get to that. Hauser and White added some balance. Pritchard, double, double. We'll get to all that stuff. But I want to start with proof of concept. Right? There's a great quote from Missoula. Like, you and I, I'm gonna paraphrase it. Like, we won this game because we woke up, like, thinking about rebounding and winning the rebounding margin and out hustling and all those things. Do you believe that we'll call it Wednesday night? Because depending when you listen to this, could be Thursday, could be Friday, whatever. Wednesday night's win. Do you think that that win is proof of concept? That playing hard, rebounding, digging in defensively, that these things amongst a few others, like obviously hitting shots and those things, proof of concept that this can work, they can keep this team afloat until Tatum gets back and they can really make a real run at this thing.

Jack Simone (8:11)

I do. I. I actually, I use that exact phrase, proof of concept in, like, my game story last night. I used it in a video that I'm going to try to make today. Like, it is such an intentional decision to make that extra effort on the glass. And like is the case with every team around the league right now. It's not really fair to base things off a three game sample size. Right. Like, it's inherently going to take this Celtics group, this new Celtics team, who is not used to playing together, who has not played this style before. And a lot of these guys, as silly as it sounds, not used to having to rebound as much as they do to get used to it.

Evan Valenti (8:44)

Right.

Jack Simone (8:44)

Like, you think about last year's team. Dylan Brown wasn't trying, you know, making the extra effort to rebound every single time because Tatum was doing it because Horford was doing it because, you know, Cornett was doing it because, like, that is just not something that he inherently thought about consciously every single second of every single play. And I'm not saying it's not a good thing, but like, when you have Tatum and Horford and Cornett, three guys who are phenomenal rebounding, you don't really need to quite as much, but you need to this year because Nimish Kaeda can get, you know, stumbled around sometimes he's not the best rebounder. He was great against the Cavs, but like, inherently he hasn't been amazing. And, and you have, you know, Peyton Pritchard and Derrick White on the floor, who are both smaller guys who are not going to be the best rebounders. Even though Peyton Pritchard does a great job of boxing out. Like, I think it just took them a few games to realize, oh, like we really have to consciously think about rebounding. And again, like, I just pulled a bunch of clips for a video I'm going to try to make and the difference in just their, their consciousness to I have to go find my guy and put a body on him. As this ball is in the air was night and day from the Pistons and Knicks games versus the Cleveland game. The Pelicans game was good too, but they didn't really have like great centers on the court a lot of the time. Like, Mobley and Jared Allen are one of the biggest front courts in the NBA. And you could, you could just see the conscious decision Boston made to be like, okay, we're going to get a body, we're going to crash the glass. And the biggest thing to me was if your guy is crashing, they're going to get a body on it. Body on him. If your guy's not crashing, go get the rebound. Because as much as boxing out is important to rebounding, a lot of the times the box out is so somebody else can get the rebound. And so the Celtics need to send five guys, four guys at the glass all times. Three of them are boxing out. And that fourth one is going to get the rebound. But the three guys boxing out aren't going to get any credit. So it's just like such an intentional decision that they have to make on a night to night basis. And Missoula saying, like, we just have to wake up and you know, decide to rebound. It sounds like simple and like painfully, you know, obvious. It's, it's really just the reality situation. And I think if they do that on a night tonight basis, which I think they are perfectly capable of. I think once Peyton Pritchard and Derek White shot wakes up, this offense is going to be humming even more than it already looks pretty good because of their own, you know, offensive rebounding activity. And I, I've been bullish on this defense since the start of the season. It's also top 10 right now. Noah put it out today, Noah Delzo, that They're one of three teams top 10 in offensive defensive rating this year. I think this defense is going to finish the year top 10. I think it's going to carry them to when Tatum comes back. I'm very bullish on on what this defense can be with style and if they can rebound to close these possessions like they did against Cleveland, I'm very excited to see what it looks like for a full year.

Evan Valenti (11:15)

Yeah, you brought the good point of this is a team in Cleveland that's big like Jared Allen, Evan Mobley, like first off, Mobley is a defensive player of the year candidate. So there's that. A lot of that comes with rebounding the basketball. Not just defense, but also like finishing the possession way, grabbing the ball off the glass. And Jared Allen, you know, been doing it pretty much ever since he got in the league, been a great rebounder. They played those two bigs at the same time all the time. Again, to your point, to be able to pull off what they did last night out rebounding the Cavs on the glass is first off not a small feat considering the size of that team, but also, again, gives you a little bit of life as you try and build this thing and go forward with this particular style. It's like, hey guys, right there. There it is. This is a team that notoriously kills teams on the glass because they have two bigs and they play them all the time. They can, you know, they can do this thing where they play one, the other one rests and they bring, they can subm out. But when they're really dangerous, when they have both those guys on the floor and Boston is a small group this year. I mean, I've said this a kajillion times, like Tatum was their best rebounder. Secret sauce to Jason Tatum. He does everything, but he's also the team's best rebounder. And without him, without Cornett, without Al Horf, without Kristaps Porzingis, you're missing your top four rebounders from last year's team. And yet you were able to do this against team that's first off proven in the regular season, on the postseason, but the regular season proven very good. And It's a team that you were going to have to compete with for the next couple of years for the top team in the east every year. So this is a huge, huge win. And I felt like you've already mentioned one of these guys. I felt like this particular style of playing is emphasized by a few guys. And I think two of them came up huge last night. And I can make the argument for the third one. But two of them, Josh Minot and N. Kada, were unbelievable last night. And I should say Wednesday, were unbelievable. Minot, who continues to be everybody, I'll say everybody's favorite player to start the year because it's just been a lot of fun with him. Minot, last night, what do you have? 15 boards, 14 boards, 11 points, 14 rebounds, you may ask. 10 points, 13 rebounds. You're getting unbelievable effort from those two guys. And like, look, Kate is a seven footer, so there's that. But Minot, not a taller guy. It's all effort. I feel like as I watch these two guys specifically, and I'll throw, I'll throw Pritchard in there because he does, you know, in terms of energy provide that. But I feel like these two guys, when Boston plays these two guys, whether together or separately, it just feels like there's more juice on this team. There's more energy on this team when they're playing. Am I wrong with that?

Jack Simone (14:06)

No, not at all. You're 100 correct. I mean, Josh might not the best rebounder on this basketball team. He needs to play a lot of minutes if they want to win games. Like, it's just, that's just kind how it is. If you, if you want to win, you have to play defense. If you want to play defense, you have to get stops. If you want to get stops, you have to rebound the basketball at the end of the possession. And if nobody else is going to do what Josh Minot can do, you have to have Josh Minot on the floor. Now what does that do for your offense? People, you know, worry about spacing or about this stuff. Great cutter, great offensive rebounder too. So add stuff there. He's. He's got to play like top six, seven minutes on the steel. Like, he's going to be huge. He's going to play 30 minutes a night. Maybe if the Celtics want to win basketball games, like, it can't be overstated how important Josh Minot will be. And to me, Ishkada, like, I have been very critical of Meshkeda. I've been like doubtful of if he can Turn it around. I don't know. Like his positioning throughout his career, like these last few years I've been just like I don't know if it's gonna work out. He has been incredible to start this regular season. Like his hustle, his rebounding, his positioning has been infinitely better. There's inevitably, inevitably going to be some positions you're like ah, illegal screen or ah, tough foul or ah, like he should have been here for the rebound. Like that's gonna happen. He's a young center, he's still grow, is an imperfect product. But the, the hustle, the, the effort, the rebounding, the size, you're, you're really seeing what he can be as a role playing center. So having those two guys on the court for rebounding purposes is going to be almost a necessity if the Celtics want to win games.

Evan Valenti (15:34)

My favorite thing about Minot is he, he kind of rebounds the ball like Terry Rozier. And I know everybody zero with all the stuff that he's involved with. But like there's a, there's a, there's a gif out there or a gif. I don't know if I don't even care anymore if I'm saying it right of. And it's usually like Sam Packer that tweets it out every time when he, when Terry Rosie would get a rebound he'd like kind of like float to get it. And there's a Simpsons meme out there that perfectly encapsulates how Tarot zero rebounds the basketball. I feel like Minot like floats like he just like effortlessly gets in the air and his limbs go on forever. He just effortly floats, grabs it at its like highest point and this comes down with it. It shows up to me more on the offensive side maybe because maybe positioning and him attacking the basket from certain angles, it just allows me to see that a little bit more. But you're totally right. Now I don't know where this team would be without Josh Minot because. And I feel so weird just because like he wasn't playing much in Minnesota and kind of took a flyer on him and, and we've gone from that to I'm texting guys, how soon can they sign Josh? Might not do an extension. Like they need to sign him like now. And somebody pointed out to me our buddy Seth was on the show like semi frequently pointed out that they have a team option on him next year which is super valuable to have on a guy that's gonna as you said, play like 25, 28, 30 minutes a game for them until Tatum comes back. Like, I. I don't know about you, I would sign him to an extension at this very second if I could. I know his agent probably wouldn't let him do it, but, like, man, how Brad Stevens found this guy to just come in and provide all this energy in a team that needs it desperately. Like, right place, right time. Then you get the great interview with him and Abby Chin after the game Wednesday night, where he gets. Where he's like, I love it here. This place is amazing. I love the staff training staff, the ball boy, the water. Like, he's like, he's going all the way up. And down the list, he goes, I absolutely love it here. This is my favorite place in the world. So it's like, how soon can they lock up my ops for an extension? Because they're going to need him going forward with this team, with this particular core of guys, no question.

Jack Simone (17:44)

Yeah, he's awesome. It's. It's like o' Shea percent walked so Josh Minot could run. That's kind of like what happened here. Like, it's. It's just the same player, but Minot's bigger, better defender, better rebounder, just kind of does everything a little better. Younger, too. He's only like 22, 23 years old. Like, he's super young. He just. Everything that Celtic switched about their team this season of. We're going to run around, be chaos on offense, crash the glass a lot more defensively. We're going to sprint around. We're going to, you know, be chaotic there, too. Like, he just fits it so perfectly. And not only is he great for the rebounding and a necessity on that, you know, in that area, he was guarding Evan Mobley the entire game yesterday. Like, he is guarding the best forward on the other team, putting them in, you know, prison with the way he's rebounding, like, he's not letting them move. Evan Mobley had an extremely inefficient night, and I. If I could find it here quickly, which I don't think I'll be able to. But, like, I would hazard a guess that Evan Mobley's matchup stats against Josh Minot were not very good. They weren't good.

Evan Valenti (18:46)

I think the number is either always six or one to six. And then, like, I think collectively as a team, The Cavs were 1 for 12 with Minot as the primary defender. Last. Pretty good. Just good, good stuff, man.

Jack Simone (19:00)

That's. That's. That's pretty good, if you ask me. Yeah. Okay. I have it here. Josh Minot as the defensive player. The Cleveland Cavaliers scored a few points, but they sh. They made one, three. They were one of like a bunch from three. And then Evan Mobley was O of 6 and O of 3 with Josh Minot on him. Deandra Hunter was 0 of 3, 0 of 1. Jalen Tyson was 0, 0. Didn't even get a shot up like he, he completely clamped them down like it, it wasn't even close.

Evan Valenti (19:35)

And, and having all this stuff like with Minot is so valuable just because again they're really up against it with this apron and finding dart throws like this are so huge. It's, it's. It as. As a team building vessel. There's nothing more valuable than a 22 year old. That's locking up. Evan Mobley, who again was a defensive player of the year candidate. He what, he scored like 19 points a game last year. Like he's one of the, you know, there's a, There's a tier of young players in the league that are, you know, you talk about the Paolo Bancheros, the Shen Goons and the Amen Thompsons. Like there's a, There's a group of guys that are the next group and then Wemby is like voice separate from this at this point, but there's a group of like the next guys that are going to be a big deal. And Mobley's on that list. Where does he fall on that list? Like, it depends on your flavor but like for, for mine not to come in and do that I thought was unbelievable. And I. We could keep going about mine out until basically we're blue in the face. But I do want to move on to Jalen Brown quickly just because Jalen, you know, look, he's been on a heater to start this season. I think so far, 30 points a game on average. You know, the fifth 40 stuff is always going to be great. The live ball turnovers will continue to haunt my dreams forever. I just, it's just gonna, it's just part of the Jalen Brown experience. But what I've really loved is, is some of the creation stuff that we've seen. And there was a point in the first couple of games, I don't have it up to last night because I, I just want more games to happen. But before I really go crazy with it. But there was a point in the season where Jalen was averaging 11 potential assists a game. And I'm like, man, if you had told me that five years ago, I thought you would be crazy. Like just absolutely Crazy because the. Just the, the creation stuff was not there, but it's starting to really come around a little bit. And like, look, you know, they're gonna have to live with the live ball turnovers, but there's at least a little bit of growth there.

Jack Simone (21:25)

Are.

Evan Valenti (21:25)

Are you of the belief that he's adjusting well, decently. Okay. With being the number one option on a team this year because it looks like he's doing all right so far?

Jack Simone (21:40)

Yeah. I asked Joe about this after the game against Cleveland and he kind of came back and was like, he doesn't really see it as a new role. He doesn't really see it as increased like pressure. He just sees it as I'm going to play like Jalen Brown plays. And he said the way they're playing the season with the new offense and you defense really suits Jalen and honestly you can kind of see it. Right. He's not taking more shots than he did last year. The, even the assist numbers aren't really up super high. I think he is just playing Jalen Brown basketball and everyone else is sort of filtering in with the way he wants to play. And don't get me wrong, like, he's been extremely efficient. I 1000% think he's doing a great job adapting to what is inevitably going to be more pressure on him because of all the guys they lost. So give him that credit. I think he's looking for his spots and getting to his. His shots. The shots he wants in a shot profile really well. I think the mid range has been there. He's been getting to that a lot. I think he's getting downhill. The threes are going in this year too, which is helping a ton for Jalen Brown. I think he's doing a great job of setting up the offense to the assistant. Numbers haven't been going up a ton, but he's doing a ton of the classic. I'm gonna drop drive, draw two, then kick out to a perimeter player. Sometimes they either just don't make it. I mean, when Derek White and Peyton Pritchard aren't shooting as well as they aren't shootings and you're not gonna have many assists. But he's done everything I think anybody could have possibly asked from him in terms of scoring, in terms of setting up his team, his defense to his and his rebound, he's rebounding against the Pistons. The Knicks was bad. He didn't do a good job boxing guys out. You look at him against Cleveland, he's putting a body on Jared Allen. He's you know, swim moving DeAndre Hunter in the paint like he is doing what he needs to do and also adjusting to what he is seeing as a necessity on the fly. So he's playing awesome. I think he deserves a ton of credit for the way the Celtics are trending.

Evan Valenti (23:25)

Yeah. And you have to. And if you're Jaylen Brown and you're the leader of this team, without question, the. Like, without Tatum on near. Well, he's nearby, but he's not floor without T on the floor. Like, you are the unquestioned leader of this team. And if someone is going to try and drag this team through these new wrinkles on offense and defense, like, he has to be the face of it. And there's been some quotes coming out about Jalen Brown's leadership and how, like, yeah, he might be the most. Like, both him and. And Tatum aren't the most. Rah, rah, guys. I think Brown does a better job of being a little bit more of a vocal leader, at least from what we can tell in our little snippets that we get. But, like, he's gonna have to be the guy, the face of this thing. And again, so far, so good. Like, you mentioned the rebounding stuff.

Jack Simone (24:06)

Like, if, if.

Evan Valenti (24:07)

If you want the whole team to rebound, Jalen, you have to put better, a better effort forward. And again, you're the guy that dives in the tape more than most people. Seems to be happening a little bit more frequently with the. Again, Pelicans. They're just a disaster. So maybe don't hold that game in super high regard. But, like, you know, especially against the Cavs, like, that's, That's. That's good stuff. You're seeing more of that, and that's something you're going to be tracking from here on out.

Jack Simone (24:31)

The rebounding in particular, you mean? Yeah, definitely. Yeah. No, I mean, if the Celtics don't rebound the way they did against Cleveland, they're not going to win games. It's like, that simple. I truly believe if they rebound the way they did, they'll have a really good chance to win. If they don't, they're going to lose. Like, you just. You cannot win basketball games when you rebound as poorly as they did against the Pistons and the Knicks. And there will inevitably be exceptions. They'll win the rebounding battle by a million one night, but they'll lose because of something else. And they'll get killed on the glass one night. And they'll get lucky because they're red hot shooting like, there's going to be those outliers. But for the bulk of games, if they don't rebound the ball like they did against Cleveland, they're going to lose. And I believe they can do what they did against Cleveland because I think this is a group of guys who knows how to win, who wants to win, and a head coach who is probably as whatever word you want to use for Joe Missoula. He does not like to lose basketball games, right? Like he is going to go out there and he's going to do everything he can to make his team do.

Evan Valenti (25:30)

What they need to do to win.

Jack Simone (25:31)

And so I think now that they've seen sort of the outline of what a successful win can be in terms of rebounding, I don't think we're going to see a lot of games where they slip up again and they will happen, right? It's an 82 game season. They're going to mess up on the glass. I think by and large now that we've seen that work and like you said, the proof of concept, you're gonna see Joe Missoula really be like if you guys don't do this, you're not.

Evan Valenti (25:52)

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Jack Simone (28:43)

All right.

Evan Valenti (28:44)

Welcome back. Evan Valenti, Jack Simone here with us on Celtics feed. A little earlier than we normally do but with the holiday coming up with coming up figured get at you especially after the Celtics take down the Cavs 125 to 105. That's, that's, that's a big part of this whole thing. We're with Jack Simone and I threw this at Jack yesterday. I was like hey buddy, be ready for this little segment that I'd like to throw at you. It's a little bit of a knockoff of, of a, of a, of a segment on the ringer fantasy football show which I, I listened to quite a bit. I love those guys. They do this segment and this is going to sound super childish and if you don't listen to that show, you probably think, Evan, you're an idiot. Well, you probably are like that anyway, that they do this segment called Farter Shark which is basically like is this particular stat that we have in fantasy, is this like a blip on the radar? Is this a long term problem or is it a long term thing? And with that in mind, we're going to kind of make it Halloween version of it. What I call like trick or treat. Is this something that with small sample size is giving us a little small sample size theater? It's not really what's really happening. Or is this something that Boston can sustain long term? That's kind of the idea of the segment. I told Jack to get ready for this, so I'm going to throw him some things. We'll go back and forth on it. But I do want to start because he sort of talked this already. Celtics offense so far in five games. Again, it's only five games, but so far in five games their offensive rating is 118.7, which is good for 10th in the NBA at this moment. So I throw to you, Jack. Does Boston have the ability to be a top 10 offense throughout the 82 games? Is this actually going to happen or is this little, little false hope here with the small game sample size?

Jack Simone (30:32)

I'll go treat. I think, I think it is possible for the Celtics to be a top 10 offense in its current state. No. Once Derrick White and Peyton Pritchard stop shooting like they forgot how to shoot. Yes. So I do think the way they offensive rebound, the way they crash the glass, the way they are playing, they can get there. But they're going to need Derek White and Peyton Pritchard to improve their efficiency, to sustain it. But I do believe that things will come around. I think water will find its level with those two.

Evan Valenti (31:00)

Yeah, I think it's really about three point shooting and again the shooting of those two guys in general. But those two guys, three point shooting has been a little bit of, a little bit of a problem so far. You have three guys for Boston all shooting over 40 from three between Simons, Brown and Hauser. I don't expect Brown to be over 40. Like I look if Jalen Brown, she's over 47 from 3, I'm gonna have like just an absolute. I will be thrilled at the end of the season if he shoots over 40. I don't think it's gonna happen. We'll see with Simons. I think it's possible that Anthony Simon shoots over 40. I don't, I don't think so. Based on the attempts, the, the volume of the attempts I have him probably around 38, 39 if I had to call it. But hauser is a walking 42. As soon as he got in the NBA 42 3. It's been outrageous where you're gonna have what as you said Waterfinds level with with or hopefully with Pritchard and and with with Derek White. We'll see how that goes Again that if those two, those things kind of balance out. I can see them hanging around and I think part of their offensive efficiency and offensive rating will be dictated by something come up in a little bit. We'll hold on to that. But you and I are both. I'm a little more trick on that. I think to have for Boston to have a top 10 offense all season will be tough. I think they could be close but I'm not quite as treat as you are. I think on this one I think it's going to be. It's going to take some time in the inverse of that Boston's defense this year so far. Defensive rating 111.4. That's good for in the NBA. So Jack, does Boston really have a top 10 defense here or is this more of a trick?

Jack Simone (32:42)

I. I've been very high on their defense all season, all training camp. I think like you said with the offense like maybe it slips down to like 11, 12, 13. Like I think they'll have a good offense but I think it could slip. I think the defense is going to be top 10, maybe even top five this season. Like I think they're going to be really, really good. I genuinely think they're going to have a really good defense with the style, with the way Joe Missoula is coaching them with. If they can rebound the basketball, I mean that's the big catalyst. If they can continue to rebound like the Cavs gave. I mean you look at the way they played outside of the first quarter against the Cavs when Donovan Mitchell went five for five or five or six and they literally couldn't miss a shot. They held him to 18, 20 and like 23 or something like that. In the Knicks game outside of that 40 point quarter again there' there's slip ups and they need to contain those. But like it's not like The Knicks scored 140 to beat them. They didn't score a lot either. Right. The only really big blow up game was the first game of the season and that was Vijay Edgecombe and Tyrese Maxey and since then the Celtics have been like really good defensive team. If they can control the glass like they failed to do against the Pistons, who then were able to put up a bunch of points, they're going to be great. Teams are shooting 40% against the Celtics this season. They just need to rebound. That's the best in the league by a pre. Like a 3% margin or something. I. I'm. I'm very high on the Celtics defense if they can continue to rebound. So I think they're gonna have a top 10 defense for sure.

Evan Valenti (33:58)

Yeah, I'm gonna align within this one. I think this is very, very, very real considering the personnel they have. Considering again, what they're doing defensively from schematic thing. But the one thing that really jumps out is their turnover. Their turnover rate is. Is what has gone from bottom of the barrel because they just didn't force turnovers last couple years, especially last year, they just didn't. They were just not good at it. I don't know. To be. Frankly, honestly, I don't think they really even tried that much. I think outside of like Drew Holiday doing the freelance thing as a free safety, like, I don't think they really tried. I think they're trying more this year. They're obviously applying more pressure that way. Ball handlers are. They're. I love this revolution of everybody's guarding everybody full court. I think it's wonderful. But they've gone from like 30th in turnover rate to like 15th, which is average, but also is way better than what they were doing. So in that regard alone, if they can combine the rebounding with this turnover rate and this pressure that they're forcing, like, I think it's. It's pretty realistic. They can hang around this. This. I don't know if top five. I don't know if I'm gonna go there. But like, as an example, like, I don't. I don't believe the Orlando Magic are going to be this bad at defense throughout the entire season. I can't believe what I'm watching out of Orlando. I don't know what's going on there. I have no clue. But I just. Yeah, I believe in the personnel that they'll be better at defense by the time this thing gets going. But I do think Boston can hang around top. As long as everybody stays healthy. I think they can hang around top 10 without question, considering the schematic changes they've made. And you've. You've diagrammed a lot of this so far. You know, I've done a great job of kind of, like, here's why I love this defense. Like, and again, both of you, after every game, are like, I'm leaving more and more and more and more into this in this defensive scheme and what they've been doing. Here's another one. Unless you have anything else for me on the defensive part, because I have another advance that I want to throw at you, please. Yeah. All right. Next one is going to be the Celtics pace right now. 96.2 possessions per game, 28th in the league. Not great. And I've. No, I've tracked this specifically because the idea coming into the season was, oh, we're gonna play faster, we're gonna play faster, we're gonna play faster. Well, guess what? They had mainly because they can't get stops and they can't generate more possessions because they're just letting up too many offensive rebounds. But at the same time, like, to be 28th, not good so far. Do you think that they're going to be towards the bottom half of the league and pace this year, or do you think this will change as we keep going here?

Jack Simone (36:38)

I'm a little confused by this. It does feel like at times, they're not doing a great job of running in transition as much as they want to. I think a big part of it is the rebounding. Like, is. You know, everything comes full circle. Like, it's hard to go run if you're not getting the rebound, so you can go run. I think it. It ticks up. Like, I don't think they'll finish, like, bottom five in pace. I don't know if it's gonna be 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Like, I just don't think inherently Derek White, Jalen, Brandon, Pton, Pritchard are like that. I think they like to play a bit more methodical as much as Jalen, and as much as those three, specifically, like, I love to run, they're not as used to it. Like, it's a very stark difference to go from playing in the Tatum style of methodical offense to what they, quote, unquote, want to do. So I don't think they'll be, like, bottom five in pace. I think it will, like, trend upwards as season goes on, but I don't think they'll be, like, a top 10 pace team.

Evan Valenti (37:28)

It's funny, I. Because I assume they would be, considering all the stuff that we heard about.

Jack Simone (37:32)

Yeah, I did, too.

Evan Valenti (37:34)

I was like, I fell for it hook, line, and sink, but we just haven't seen it. But again, I do. The caveat is that the Rebounding stuff had skewed this a little bit, especially the early, the first couple of games, they're just getting their ass kicked on the glass. I mean, it was just embarrassing how bad it was on the glass. And I was like, man, if they do this all year, I'm gonna be a very depressed person by the time we get to the end of this thing. Because I just couldn't. I can't do this for 82 games. I have to find some other guys to watch. But it's just been the, the change last two games. Obviously noting wins has been, has been a lot of fun. All right, we're gonna move on to now because I think schematically, again with five, five games, it's hard to have a huge sample size of like definitive top 10 offense. Like, it's hard to do that. But I do want to get to some guys. I want to start Dimash Kaeda because he's been an absolute joy. I, I just can't believe what I'm watching outside of some of the dumb files, which I forgive him for because he's playing more minutes than ever before. I've been very high on the experience. So the idea of Namaskada, is he a starting center on a playoff caliber team, Is that more of a trick or more of a treat, you think?

Jack Simone (38:40)

I. I don't know. I think.

Evan Valenti (38:46)

Yeah, what I said, I said, yeah, playoff team, not, yeah, NBA champion, NBA finals contending playoff team.

Jack Simone (38:56)

Yes, because I do, I do think the Celtics team is a playoff team. I, I don't know if he can be that on a contending team because I think once you get into the weeds of oh, you're playing Giannis or you're playing Jokic, oh, you're playing Wemby, you get, you get into a tough spot. But playoff caliber team, I believe he can because I do think the Celtics group is a playoff team.

Evan Valenti (39:16)

He's sort of on this Lou Cornett trajectory of. And I think a lot of people have pointed this of guy that comes in, fills in, but when you see him on the floor, it's like, ah, man. Ah, okay. All right, well, we'll see how the Cornet minutes go today. We'll see how the cadem last year. Ah, man, we'll see how these cater minutes go now. It's now I watch him and I'm like, man, I don't know where they'd be if he didn't make this leap. Obviously he did a lot of great things when he was with Portugal this summer and again I take all those international games with a grain of salt because sometimes they don't translate. But it seems like this stuff is translated right into this year and he's just a way better player again. He's going to make mistakes, but I just again, I can't believe the production they're getting out of him. We'll move on to Josh. Josh Minot starting four for the Celtics until Tatum comes back. What do you think for sure?

Jack Simone (40:12)

100. I'd like to maybe there's some games where Ugo gets to start because they need to guard like a kid or a Brunson. I Josh my not needs to be on the floor if they want to win games. He absolutely has to be the starter or at least play 30 minutes a night. He is essential to their rebounding. He, he has to play heavy minutes every night.

Evan Valenti (40:34)

Yeah. When Tatum comes back, him and Tatum on the floor at the same time, it's going to be really, really, really fun for everybody to watch because all the limbs are gonna be on everywhere and you're gonna have two guys that are 68 and 610 that just get every rebound. And I, I honestly am thrilled for that. But like again, the Minot stuff, I, I again you look at the Cleveland game and the New Orleans game. Me you want to talk about putting tape out there. I mean he put some of the best tape anybody's put out there for the Celtics so far this year. And again in, in his plus minus for, for both those games was outrageous. Good things happenings on the floor. I'm thrilled that they that he's part of this thing. I'll move on to Ugo though, because I've been disappointed that he has played. I thought he earned especially against Brunson. I thought he earned a spot in this rotation. I thought he cleared Charman. I thought he cleared Walsh very quickly with his activity, his defensive pressure. Yeah, he's gonna make mistakes. Obviously the jump shot isn't ideal at this moment, but he just seems to give a all the time. Which I really love.

Jack Simone (41:32)

Yeah.

Evan Valenti (41:32)

But hasn't played a ton lately. I don't think that really matters at this point. They're still kind of tinkering with stuff. Like they're trying to trying to figure it out. They have their like core six guys that played in every game and then they're still trying to figure out the end of the bench rotation. But I'm of the mindset that Hugo, Hugo has earned this over a lot of different guys and has played himself into the rotation despite the Fact that you got a, he didn't get a DMP against the Cavs, but he basically kind of did as they, they brought him out when they waved the white flag. But do you believe that Ugo 19 year old rookie has earned a spot in this rotation? When things finally sell that.

Jack Simone (42:14)

I would like to see more of him. I, I do worry that I don't think he's not going to be in the rotation. I think Minot being like a 30 minute guy, like I said, maybe hurts his case just a little bit. Even though they play different positions because I do think they have a lot of guards they want to play. White, Pritchard, Simons, the Shireman minutes are a little weird. Although to give Shireman some credit, he is a great rebounder. He crashes harder than a lot of people, so I'll give him that. I would like to see you go more. I think he's earned it like you said. But I, I don't know if, if you know, he has to be on the floor, like he has to be is necessarily where I'm at just because like I, I do think for, for as good as he looked in that one Knicks game, I don't think he is like how dare you put these other guys on the floor when Ugo is right there. And, and I do think there's also a line to it where it's like he's rookie and Joe Missoula's Jo Missoula. So we'll, we'll kind of see how that plays out.

Evan Valenti (43:12)

I just, I loved his defense on, on Brunson. I thought he was just awesome. I thought he, out of all the guys on the team, I thought he guarded Bronson the best. And, and so when I, when you know, guard of one of the top 15 players in the league and again I think he's closer to 10 than he is 15. But just because everybody's lists 15, I think you, you earn a little more time. I'm just a little surprised that he hasn't, hasn't gotten much time after that. Jalen Brow currently averaging right on the dot, 30 points per game. Talking about this a little bit earlier, is Jalen a 30 point per game guy this whole season or is this more of like a small sample size theater here?

Jack Simone (43:47)

I think this is a little more small sample size theater now. I don't think he's gonna go back down like 22. I think he'll probably be around like 25 to 28 range, but I don't know if he's Gonna put up 30 all year. Like I think one star to like heat up again. You'll see Jalen not having to do as much. And I do think the Celtics are a little bit lucky that Jalen Brown is as efficient as he is as Derrick White and Pin Pritchard struggling, because I don't think he's going to shoot 60 and 50 all season either. So I, I, I would say more of a trick from the trick or treat side of things on 30 points per game, but I do think he's gonna have a good year.

Evan Valenti (44:22)

Yeah, I'm with you on that. Look, you have a 30 a game, but 30 games, tough. Not too many. Not many guys do that. And you're talking about the yakis, the SGAs, you know, the yokiches. Like those are the guys that average 30 a game. It's not really a Jalen Brown thing. But hey, look, I've been wrong before, I'll be wrong again. Can Derek White, right? Derek White right Now is averaging 11.2 threes attempted per game, which is just an outrageous number for me. Although I've enjoyed it, it's not like I haven't enjoyed it. Can he hover around 10? Do you think he can average 103 point attempts per game?

Jack Simone (45:00)

I do, I do think they're quite is going to take 10 threes a game. The question for me is, is he going to shoot 35% or 38 and 40%? Don't know what that's gonna look like, but I do think he's gonna get them up there. I, I don't think that's fake.

Evan Valenti (45:17)

Yeah, he's been, he hasn't been bashful about it either. He's in a lot of these like step backs where he's like, you know, just doing this thing and all of a sudden it tries to take a step back.

Jack Simone (45:24)

And.

Evan Valenti (45:26)

I kind of like that shot, but I don't love it all the time. So I'm still trying to work it out. But he does. Look, man, I've, I've been of the mindset more. Derek White is good for business. So I'm, I'm always going to support Derek White in that regard. But 11.2 a game is just hysterical. My last one here, wife, two more Peyton Pritchard. I want to get to him. He had 10 points, 10 assists in that Cleveland game. They get the shot's not falling. But I've been pretty impressed with a lot of the stuff that he's been doing. I love that he just attacks the paint and moves guys with his shoulders, his elbows, his hips, and finds, like, interesting ways to get through guys and get the shot up or find interesting ways to get guys the ball with. With interesting and. And fun, like whip passes. He's been awesome. Is Peyton Pritchard a lead ball handler on a playoff team?

Jack Simone (46:23)

Yeah, I think so. Not number one, but number two. Like I said this on how about them Celtics last night? Like, Derrick White hasn't looked, in my opinion, super comfortable as the secondary option when he's had to be, or the first option going against defensive pressure. Peyton Pritchard has. I don't care that the shots haven't gone in. He has looked infinitely more comfortable handling the ball within the flow of an offense against, you know, high leverage, high pressure situations than Derek White has. And that's not a knock on Derek White. It's just I think Pritchard's a little bit more comfortable in that spot. And I think Jalen Brown's your number one ball handler, offensive initiator, and I think Peyton Pritchard needs to be number two. I've been really impressed. Again, like I said, the threes need to come, but 10 assist last night. I think it was against Cleveland. He. He has been a phenomenal offensive creator for the Celtics team.

Evan Valenti (47:05)

This is the one thing, like, a lot of people forget when you go back and watch Pritchard's. I'll say, you know, his Oregon stuff, his. His college stuff. He was a way bigger distributor then, and he looked at some of the. The highlights and like, wow, this guy's got a real great feel for the game and where his. His teammates are. Not even the ball in the right spots. So this, this particular form of Pritchard I've been very impressed with. And the last one is it seems like Boucher has carved out a big role over Tillman. Do you believe that will hold throughout the entire season?

Jack Simone (47:43)

No. Boucher hasn't been playing a lot. Tillman has been playing a lot. If I had to guess who's going to get more consistent minutes. I think Tillman's looked more impactful. I think Boucher has had some cool block nights, and I think the energy is great, but not a great rebounder. He's not a great screener. He's kind of like a smaller body. I think Tillman's a better rebounder, better screener, and I think in this Celtics offense, that's kind of what they need more. So I'd honestly rather see more Tillman than Boucher, But I think there's a place for both but if you ask me to say only one gets minutes for the rest of the year, I would go with Tillman because the Celtics already don't have a lot of size and Tillman's not the tallest, but he's got size. He's a, he's a big boy and he will throw that body around. He will get boards and he'll set screens. I think that's more important for what the rest of the roster looks like.

Evan Valenti (48:31)

Yeah, I, I sometimes find myself wanting Boucher to play more just because of that energy. I know he can stretch the floor a little bit better than most of the bigs that they have. And I'll throw mine out in there too because mine on three point shot is a little wonky, but. And sometimes I, I do wish they go a little bit smaller and play him at the 5 and just see kind of what that looks like. Again, it's only five games in, so we have a long way to go here. But I've just been. There are some moments in some games that I'm like, I wish they could it give Boucher a little more of a look here, but you know, look, it's five games and they're still trying to figure out where, where everybody's most comfortable. So I'm not gonna sit here and really pound the table for more minutes for, for Boucher. That's just, I'm gonna be honest about that. I do want to move on before we get out of here. Very quickly, this news broke today. The Celtics are picking up the option for BAYLOR. Shireman, his 30 year option. I'm not surprised because I think that's just like, let's just have, we won't, you know, let's have the asset, let's have control of that just in case. But it, it's been a little rocky for Baylor. I think he's been passing the rotation by Hugo again, basically just with the defense by itself and the energy that he brings. Shireman was kind of everybody's favorite line was, oh, when they trade Hauser, they'll just have Shireman fill in for him right away. It's like, well, that hasn't happened at all whatsoever. And I'm not here, I'm not going to call him a bust because what was he the literally the last pick in the first round two years ago. So I'm not gonna call him a bust at this point. It's a little tough just because, you know, it's, it's basically a dart throw. It's, it's the same Thing as an Ugo Gonzalez or you know, Amari Williams or whatever. Like it's, it's, you know, the, it's. It's not like you're picking a guy in the top 10 here. But were you surprised when you saw the news today or the news on Thursday that the Celtics did exercise that option?

Jack Simone (50:30)

I wasn't surprised. I think he's got a long way to go. I don't know if he's a future part of the Celtics team, but at the very least you have a tradable contract. You have a guy who's probably cheaper than a bet minimum. And if the Celtics are in save money mode, that's probably pretty important. It's just very rare you see teams give up on guys after the first two years of a rookie contract. So I think you give him another year, maybe even another year after that, see what happens. But the fourth, the second year of the, the rookie scale, two and two is always more expensive and the first year is more, you know, around the same price as the first two years are a little bit of a jump. So I think this outlooks were always going to pick up this option.

Evan Valenti (51:08)

Totally agree. It made them sense. It's just, you know, you'd like to see him with a little more, a little more playing time, a little more consistency from three point range because we all believe it's there because we've seen it a little bit, but it's just, it hasn't totally come full circle yet. Just a really quick here coming up Celtic schedule. It's possible they get in four games before the next time we record. They got a lot of games coming up Friday, Friday night in Philadelphia, that rematch. Can't wait to say VJ Edge Comb again. I cannot wait for that. That guy was amazing opening night. Not gonna lie. Then they have the Rockets on Saturday, Jazz on Monday, Wizards on Wednesday, Magic Friday and Magic Sunday. There's a lot of games coming up, not a lot of time. So just be aware that scheduling wise we're gonna pop up. Adam and I again, I'm just not positive exactly when considering there's basically a game every other day from now until next Sunday. So there's gonna be a lot to talk about, a lot to be excited about with this team. More Josh Minot coming up for all of us throughout the rest of the week. I can't wait for that again. I'm always jazzed to see more Josh. Why not? I wonder with the schedule coming up. Jack, if because of the maxi and Edgecomb gave Boston such A huge headache that first game. I wonder if they'll play Ugo more to try and contain those two guys because they, those two guys killed Boston's backcourt opening night. I mean, it was embarrassing.

Jack Simone (52:40)

Yeah, definitely. I think you'll see more Ugo in that game. Specifically. I think you put him on Maxi and you'd say go chase him around for 40 minutes.

Evan Valenti (52:47)

Yeah, go, go tire him out. Because Hugo just looks like the Energizer Bunny out there. Jack make plug everything that you do because you do a ton of stuff.

Jack Simone (52:56)

I do all my written work. I do a game story after every game and I'll weave in some, some fun features and stuff. Hardwoodhudini.com you can find my work there. I'll tweet it out as well. My Twitter's Jackson Moen mba. I post my film sessions that Evan was talking about. I do other videos of me breaking stuff down. Those are also on my other socials. Jackson Moen MBA on TikTok, YouTube, Instagram if you want to see them there. And then how about themselves podcast that I host with Samo France. So it's everywhere I'm at.

Evan Valenti (53:20)

He's all over the place, folks. For Adam Kaufman, for myself, for CLNS Media, for prize picks, I want to thank you all for joining in. Again. Remember, subscribe to CLNs YouTube page so it looks all access on YouTube. Make sure you subscribe to all the Jack stuff. Subscribe to Southeast Beat on Spotify and itunes. All those things. Price pick CLNs five dollar lineup gives you $50 bonus. Okay, again, when you play five dollar lineup, you get 50 instantly. It's, it's the best. And I play Price Picks every week. It's a lot of fun. Kaufman and I have a blast with it. I'm the, I'm the Flex Play King. They don't have that given out yet, but I have dubbed myself the Flex Play King. And Jack, before we go, just a little advice. Missoula said it himself. You know, you got to wake up wanting to rebound the basketball. That's. That's the right way to handle their rebounding issues. So with that in mind, you guys just gotta wake up. Next time you guys have a game against the coaches, just wake up thinking we're gonna kick their ass. And there it is right there. That's all you need. Just, you get it right from the coach itself. That's Missoula calling me right now to tell me that. That's all. Just gotta wake up.

Jack Simone (54:30)

We just gotta try harder. We just gotta try a little bit. Harder next time maybe we'll score eight points instead of four.

Evan Valenti (54:34)

What was the Denver, the Denver staff take on the Denver media and that was even worse.

Jack Simone (54:41)

Yeah, well, we lost 57, four in like a 12 point game or a 12 minute game. Excuse me. I think they played like a more full game but they lost by like 100. So I felt a little bit better about myself.

Evan Valenti (54:53)

I, I would too. No question about it. And, and for the, I know this story. They won't die, but it's actually, it's, it's got more legs. Like you got people in football talking about it now. They want to do football beat.

Jack Simone (55:04)

Right.

Evan Valenti (55:04)

As versus assistant coach. I couldn't imagine trying to play football against Mike Vrabel. I think that would kill me. What's harder playing football against Mike Vrabel or basketball against Joe Missoula? I don't know. That might be.

Jack Simone (55:17)

I think a lot of injuries would come with both.

Evan Valenti (55:22)

Absolutely. For Jack Simone, I'm Evan Valente. You guys have a safe and fun holiday weekend with Halloween. We'll see you next week right here on CLNS Media.