Dan Greenberg (2:46)

Which was not my problem.

Adam Kaufman (2:48)

Not our problem. No winter, winter. Been saying it with the Patriots all year long. You play the games on your schedule. The Celtics go out back to back because that win came on the heels not 24 hours after a 45 point blowout of the Wizards. Again, terrible team. Arguably the worst in all of basketball. Grandy tweets in the last 11 games, the Celtics at nine and two not only have the NBA's number one offense, it's at a video game level. The 24 champion Celtics hold the NBA offense record 122.2 points per 100 possessions. NBA ranks in this span for these Celtics 122.9. That is second 51% shooting third 41% from three second 17.23 point field goals per game made by the way, that is first from our guest Dan Greenberg. The Boston Celtics are tied for the most wins versus teams 500 or better in the NBA. Correct wire to wire wins in the NBA. The 40 point wins in the NBA tied for the most 30 point wins in the NBA and second most 20 points point wins in the NBA. I will give you one more courtesy of Adam Kaufman. After the game last night I tweeted whispers whispers. The Celtics are actually very good and need to make a move in season for a legit big for the rotation because Jason Tatum is coming and this team will contend in the East. Well boys, as we sit here, the Boston Celtics are now tied for fourth place in the Eastern Conference. I had him as a top four seed coming into the year. I don't know what everyone's problem was out there. I don't know how many times we talked about this on this show for months. We do this show every week guys. It's free. Subscribe wherever you get your podcast. Watch the video with all of our great guests. Available to you on the CLNS YouTube page, the all access page. It's out there. We told you. We asked all of our guests what are the expectations for this team and every single time we said have you seen the East? Have you seen the East? Have you seen the East? Oh also are the Celtics despite all these moves really that bad? Cellar dweller tank kind of year? No Sir. The Celtics 14 and 9 with this recent run they were a game and a half out of second place behind the Knicks. They are four games out of first behind the rapidly cooling down Detroit Pistons who have still in fairness won 7.

Dan Greenberg (5:32)

Out of 10 plus to you though.

Evan Valenti (5:36)

Lost to us.

Evan Valenti (5:40)

Recently.

Dan Greenberg (5:41)

Yeah.

Adam Kaufman (5:41)

For anyone out there. And I probably talked to you Greeny about it. I sure as hell talk to Ev about it. For all the people out there that got upset with me when I was all sorts of butt hurt about losing to the Jazz, losing the Nets, talking about throwing away opportunities because you are better than this. Don't just. There's no like win, win.

Dan Greenberg (6:04)

Ah. If you win, you win.

Adam Kaufman (6:05)

That's great. If you lose, how you win because it's good for the draft pick. No, I got pissed every single time. I cared way too much.

Dan Greenberg (6:12)

I mean that is true though. That is true though. That is true.

Adam Kaufman (6:15)

Why Greenie is because this team and you know it, despite you've been on and you talked about the. The levels of what this season could look like, is it 25 wins year one under Brad Stevens is Isaiah Thomas, you know, peak with the Celtics where you know, you can be a whatever like low.

Dan Greenberg (6:34)

Like mid-40s,-40s.

Adam Kaufman (6:36)

Yeah. Kind of win team. But you're not a serious contender. You're not you just fun regular season or is this team really potentially actually very good Now I would say Juan is out the window and right now we're between two and three. We're between two and three. Is this just regular season or is this that can actually contend now we know and this is where I will end my ramble and I will go right to you. Now we know this team has to act. It can't sit on his hands. It's good enough. As we expect, every week there's a Jason Tatum is coming back this season tweet from somebody that all started with Tatum himself. So shame on you guys for trying.

Evan Valenti (7:17)

To break this news and take credit.

Adam Kaufman (7:18)

For this nonsense when Tatum himself has said basically, if you read between the lines, he's coming back this year. So we all know Tatum's coming back this year at some point in time. What's he going to look like? How long is he going to be available? All these things we don't know. We'll see. We know he's coming back. Knowing that and knowing what Kada has given you as a more than serviceable big a top 10 center probably in the. In the NBA right now, you know, top five in the Eastern Conference, the way that he is going right now. But you got nothing else around him at center, Nothing that you trust, nothing you feel even remotely good about. You need to go out and add a big can this team. Greeny, am I read. Am I right in reading all of this? Is this Team good enough to where it would be unforgivable that it sit on its hands sometime between now and the trade deadline and just say, okay, maybe Tatum comes back sometimes, but he's not going to be his old self. Doesn't matter. This team isn't actually going anywhere. And it kind of settles for that NBA purgatory that we all don't want to be in.

Dan Greenberg (8:20)

I just think whenever you are in a position like this, you have to remember that center has to be available on the market. Right? So who is that guy that they're going to be able to go out and get? Is it. I mean, the bigger thing is, I just think we were wondering, once they get to February, are they getting under the luxury tax? What is their. Their record will dictate, I think, where they go. I think at this point, you need to say this is not a year to get under the tax and start your reset. Right. At the very least, you need to. You can. You can trade Simons, maybe his money for a lesser salaried big that gets you under the first apron, but still fills your need. I think what we've seen eliminated is pure salary dumps just to get under the number to reset luxury tax. Not even. And that would be true even if Tatum wasn't coming back, because like you said, they're right there. They're a position away from potentially, you know, having a. A foundation to make a run. Which is why I want to amend my season comp. Okay, so previous Celtic years, because of what we've seen from Jordan Walsh, are we looking at the 27 or 2017, 2018 Celtics where Gordon Hayward gets hurt, Jason Tatum gets hurt, Jordan Walsh now gets his opportunity the same way Jason Tatum got his opportunity that Kyrie Irving got hurt. No, when Gordon Hayward broke his leg.

Adam Kaufman (10:04)

Right, he got hurt. But you said. And then Jason Tatum got hurt, Tatum didn't get hurt, Irving got hurt.

Dan Greenberg (10:09)

Well, yeah, but there was. You never knew. Like, I think Hayward at the wing getting hurt is what allowed Tatum to, you know, have a bigger role.

Evan Valenti (10:20)

Absolutely.

Dan Greenberg (10:21)

We're now seeing that with Jordan Walsh. He's like a baby Tatum when you watch him play. So are we looking at a team that, as rookies, weren't really contenders? Right. Like, they. They weren't picked to, you know, beat the Cavs and contend, but they won 55 games and they made the Eastern Conference finals. Is that on the table? Tatum comes back, they add a big. This year, you look around the conference and you say, we're built to take down any of These teams. So I think, I think we're leaning more towards the 1718 Celtics than the Isaiah Celtics where it was one all NBA player and then a bunch of try hards. Now you essentially have two all NBA players back in a conference that again the Celtics have a six and plus six point, six point differential which is the second in the conference. They're arguably the second best team in the east as it stands today. It's just like this is it, they're doing it and they're almost forcing Brad's hand to say sorry Billy Chisholm, you need to cut a luxury tax check because you know we cannot punt on this season given how well they're playing.

Dan Greenberg (11:41)

But it's early, right? Like February is a long ways away. They could get hurt, they could slide and then, you know, the entire season is fluid based on, you know, how they perform. There should be no set in stone path in December. Let's see where they are in February. But the way you are thinking is, is how they seem to be trending.

Adam Kaufman (12:04)

And I think the, you know, Greenie brought this up and we don't know, we don't have an answer to it. But it's the question of who's available, right? You know, who, who could you acquire? What would it take to do that? I think everybody naturally goes back to you give up the Anthony Simons expiring contract. Do you have to attach draft pick compensation to it? Is there a world by the way, and I don't really think this is going to happen if Giannis is traded. Not to Boston obviously, but if he is traded, can you do the old Danny Ainge special and slide in as a third team, help facilitate a deal. You get off assignments contract without attaching compensation to it. And maybe from one of these teams you can even get a big coming back your way and you do it that way and that's if Giannis is even dealt in season. I think that injury, you know, knowing that it's a, you know, non contact strain, calf could miss a month, maybe more is the Achilles to follow as we've seen so many times in the NBA like this could really sideline the trajectory of that possible deal before let's say the offseason. So taking it off the board, but just worthy of mention obviously. Then you go back to all of these articles and I will, you know, this is important to remember. These are not from like Shams Haynes, you know, all of all these other reputable national NBA reporters. Certainly nobody local either. Washburn, Himmelsbach and So on this is like clutch points and aggregator sites out there that are just Bleacher Report that's trying to like, you know, what would my, you know, what could make sense all that. But you're seeing names like Claxton, Zubots, you know, our boy Seth in the group chat is throwing on all sorts of vouch, all sorts of names that, you know, guys that theoretically could be available. Again, the word is theoretically. We don't know nothing substantial has been attached to any of these guys. That said, is there someone that either of you, I mean, ev, I'll start with you and then we'll get green. Is there a guy, I mean, who do you want that you realistically think could be out there and is attainable without obviously hurting yourself in the process, roster wise?

Evan Valenti (14:12)

Well, I, we talked about the white whale. My white whale is obviously Zubot out in, out in the Clipper land. It would, you know, obviously you need to have a couple of things happen for the Clippers to do this massive sell off. I don't know if that's even going to really happen. So I'm not really certainly entertaining any of that. But the Brooklyn Nets, who are going nowhere for Nick Claxton, I feel like you could, you could talk to them at least and be like, hey, like, you guys aren't doing anything. What's the point of having your team, especially if you're gonna end up getting Carlos Boozer anyway? You know, what's the point of having this guy on your team? You're not going to contend for a while. Like, I'm sure there's a way to entice them to maybe think about trading Nick Claxton around, but I, you know, the thing about Brad Stevens is.

Adam Kaufman (14:55)

Every.

Evan Valenti (14:55)

Single week it's like more proof of concept. It's just whatever these guys seem to think is necessary, seem to care, just let them figure it out. Like, I mean, I was thinking about this last night that I should say Friday night, Friday night, like watching Jordan Walsh and Josh Minot and Hugo Gonzalez and Baylor shot and all these guys just like contribute to winning. It's just like, yeah, every, everything that Brad seems to think is necessary seems to work out really well. So like, yeah, I, I would love a Nick Claxton that and that, that would be spectacular. A guy that you could slide and you know is going to be, you know, arguably your best friend, protector on the team as soon as he walks into it, a good screener, good, you know, pick and dive guy, great lob threat, obviously, great energy. You're not going to need, you know, he's going to be a guy that's going to fit right in and the guy that's probably hungry to win some basketball games. But in, in, in, you know, Zubacs, wild freaking love that guy. As I said the other day, like, if you had Tatum and Zubots, nobody's getting a rebound ever. Like, like ever with those two guys around the basket. But at the end of the day, it's almost like whoever they think's the best, they can go out and get. I'm, I'm sure there's a guy we're not thinking of that's on a team somewhere, like on a, you know, like on the, the Charlotte Hornets or something that we're not thinking about that could be obtained and would fit right in. It would be perfect. Like, does it. The question I think Greeny for me would be, does that guy have to shoot threes or not? Because I almost don't think they have to. I think the way they're playing right now with a guy that in Kada, that doesn't really space the floor, they're still one of the best offensive teams in the league. So the Al Horfords, the Chris Epps, Porzingis is that we're used to, I don't think necessary. I think they can go another direction.

Dan Greenberg (16:32)

Especially if Tatum is coming back, right. He's a 610 power forward who shoots threes. So it's like that box is checked. But I will tell you why this gets so complicated is you have to remember the salary restrictions. The Clippers are hard capped at the first apron. They can only take in $18 million in salary in any trade. So if you're looking at Zubotch, he makes around 18. Simon's makes around 27. It's not just 18 minus 27 math. Oh, that's. They would be over because he makes 27 million. They can't just take like assignments and picks for Zubot, which means they need to add around 10 more million in salary to the trade for the Celtics to take back in. When you look at their, when you look at their salary sheet, that's like Dennis Jones Jr. Who is guaranteed for 10 million this year and guaranteed for 10 million next year. So then the question becomes, if you want to do that deal, are the Celtics open to taking on future guaranteed money or can you find a third team to take, you know, DJJ, because you don't want that extra year at 10 million. So that's what makes these trades so hard, is like the salary restrictions that other teams have to abide by. So someone like Claxton, where the Nets have the cap space to just absorb Simon's deal, you can bring in Claxton, you know, maybe you have to overpay to convince them to do it. You know, throw some swaps in there, whatever. Because he signed for two or three more years, but his salary decreases, I think each of those. So that's a valuable asset for you as a team that has to start worrying about, you know, the number crunch. So these. These guys all fit in theory. It's just. We don't know if Brad's allowed to tack on future money after this year. Does he have to only be looking at expiring big men? Does he, you know, have to look at future money but under a certain dollar amount because of how they. So I'm with you on the position of need. I'm with you on the players. It's just so complicated to figure out how to thread that needle. Especially when you think sooner or later they have to reset their repeater tax. Well, how are you doing that if you're adding, you know, 30, $40 million of future money every year and not breaking off your core pieces? It's like. It's a math problem. It's just impossible.

Adam Kaufman (19:21)

Some other names that our buddy was throwing out, we don't need to talk about them. I just want to mention them because if anything comes to fruition, it's a way of giving him credit. And if it doesn't, it was pure speculation and meaningless. Kind of a win win for us. Nurkic mentioned him.

Dan Greenberg (19:35)

No, I'm out on there. No, thank you.

Adam Kaufman (19:37)

We mentioned Vuch, obviously, with the Magic trade. Goga, he writes when the Pelicans move. Looney. Another guy is Santi Aldama. What's Memphis planning this season? Some. You know, if. If Giannis is dealt somewhere, is there a way to get Miles Turner?

Dan Greenberg (19:53)

No. Thank you.

Adam Kaufman (19:54)

Some of these different things that. That he had thrown out there, among.

Dan Greenberg (19:57)

Others, some good ones in there.

Evan Valenti (19:59)

Finals. Not like his team played better without him on the floor. So I'm good.

Adam Kaufman (20:03)

Yeah.

Dan Greenberg (20:03)

But I think that list shows you the range. Right. Like, Goga in Orlando isn't a big name, but he would be a serviceable reserve big man that's very different from a Zubotz type player.

Adam Kaufman (20:17)

Sure.

Dan Greenberg (20:17)

Both from what you're getting and what it would cost. But then again, like, the Magic are contending, so why are they gonna. Why are they gonna help you? So it's just. I don't know, if you can just say, oh, our reserve big is going to be Amari Williams in spot minutes here and there.

Adam Kaufman (20:34)

And I would love that, but how could you possibly depend on that right now?

Dan Greenberg (20:38)

Yeah, you can't. So it's tough because I do think they're going to look to flip Simon's 27 million. It's just who can take it? And then how are you going to be able, Like, I don't know if I want to unload it for a bad player. Like, you see trades all around floating around. That talk about the Celtics taking back Terrence Mann's contract. I don't want to do that at all. He has 31 million guaranteed for the next three years. Like, you can't give, you know, 16, 17 million of your cast base to Terence Mann on this roster. So it's like, I don't know, it's just going to be fascinating to see where it ends up because they're not really operating in a position of leverage. And when you're not operating with leverage, you tend to kind of get it through both ends in the trade. And that hasn't happened to Brad Stevens yet in any move that he's made. So this could be the first time where he has to, like, slightly overpay or like, lose a trade by taking on a bad asset because their opportunity is so wide open if they continue to play like this.

Adam Kaufman (21:48)

Let's take a break, tell you about our good friends over at Prize Picks. This episode is brought to you by Prize Picks. It's the holiday season, the best time of the year for sports bowl games, basketball matchups, playoff pushes. It's all happening at once. And while you and I are out making decisions every day, what gifts to buy, what to eat, what game to watch, who's going to be the next guest on Celtics beat, there's one place where it feels good to be, right?

Evan Valenti (22:12)

Prize Picks Ev Prize Picks is the best place to get real money. Sports Action. Join 10 million users over 10 million and sign up today. Prize Picks, folks, talk about all the time. It is a Saturday. As we record this, I always mention the Friday flex play Saturday. So we're gonna do a flex play here on Saturday, which means you can still cash out. You can win your money back even if your lineup isn't perfect. Trust me, last two weeks, flex play saved my ass once again. Oh, man, it's been a real frustrating past couple weeks because last week it was RJ Harvey that screwed me out of going 3 for 3. But for this week, Kaufman here's where we're at. Miles Garrett is having a heck of a season. Defensive player of the year, I think. No question about it. Miles Garrett More than 1.25 sacks versus the Titans. Okay, we're gonna go. Jackson, Smith and Jigba. More than 0.5 touchdowns versus the Falcons.

Adam Kaufman (23:09)

All right.

Evan Valenti (23:11)

Getting last leg of this thing. Cam Little and Blake Groupie. Either one of them's got to hit a field goal more than 49 and a half yards.

Adam Kaufman (23:21)

I don't know if you knew this.

Evan Valenti (23:22)

But Cam Little hit a 70 yarder in preseason.

Evan Valenti (23:28)

So as we know, flexible. I made all three I3X my money right here. Two out of three. I still get my money back, which is a win for me. And prize fix now has early payouts. And you, you, you hit all three of them very quickly. You can cash out those wings before.

Adam Kaufman (23:44)

The game even finishes. Confidence price picks as have said easy payouts. Lineup gets off to a hot start. You can cash out. Just enjoy the money. Getting your money could not be any easier. In as little as 15 minutes, you can watch that money roll into your account. Prize picks even uses Venmo. Literally nothing easier than that. So download the app today. Use code CLNS. You get 50 bucks in lineups after playing your first for only $5. Again, download the prize picks app. Do it today. Do it right after you listen to this show. The promo code CLNS. You get 50 bucks in lineups after playing your first for only $5. Prize picks. It's good to be right. All right, we are back. And just to make people aware, if you could see Evan, awesome. Everything is working as it should. If you are getting a black screen and you're seeing just me and Greenie, then just know that pretend. Yeah, you know, you know what he looks like by now. He's done enough shows. You can imagine him too, with all sorts of different haircuts that he's had over the years, levels of beard, suits, ties, button downs, sweater vests, whatever it may be. It's all on the table.

Evan Valenti (25:01)

I'm making a ton of faces right now just to let everybody knows, just to see.

Adam Kaufman (25:06)

Well, we'll find out. I'm looking forward to finding out myself. Greeny, let's go back to this trade conversation for a minute. And you know, obviously we talked about the big side of it, and I would love for there to be a real substantial rumor from someone of note that we can react to, but I guess we're gonna have to settle for waiting on that. As far as the Anthony Simons side of things goes. And, and he's someone that, as people know, I was very high on going into the year. I thought that he was going to have a real role with this team. I was putting him in the, you know, pipe dreams like six man of the year conversation. Knowing that like his volume ability as a shooter, the three point style offense, I really thought he could thrive in Missoula ball. And you know, truly it's just the, the opportunity has been very inconsistent largely because as we know, came in with this reputation. Defensively he's a sip. So offensively he is, you know, there's been a ceiling as to what he's been able to give you and that's, you know, it is what it is and I just, unless I'm wrong, I don't think it's going to change. So if we operate based on that and all of these rumors that, or reports or columns or whatever that people want to pen about Simon's being dealt, there's no secret the Celtics are at this point like, it's not like they're bringing him back next year. Signed them on the cheap. I mean this, this will be a one and done for Simons whether he makes, whether he's gone by the trade deadline, I think. And so that in mind, there's, there's been, you know, discourse around do you have to attach something to get off of that contract? And you know, I, I was a, in terms of a first round pick, like second rounders.

Dan Greenberg (26:41)

Ah, you shouldn't. I mean, yeah, he's expiring so.

Adam Kaufman (26:46)

Well, it depends what you're getting in return. Right. If you're getting, you know, nothing super special, then I agree with you. If you're trying to get a real player, you might need to. And, and so ultimately, I guess what I'm wondering is, are you willing. And I will, you know, remind people out there that if the Celtics are who they're supposed to be, who they want to be, first round picks are late first round picks, you know, if you're dealing your own, not one that you acquired somewhere else, they're, you know, mid to late 20s, they're crapshoot kind of picks. You're nowhere near the lottery. Doesn't mean it's not still more valuable than the second round pick. But there's no guarantee those guys turn into anything. And also in this Brad Stevens era, and I'm not even talking about him in this role, I'm just him being around because some of this does go back to Danny Ainge, obviously. Celtics, it's not like they've been flush with first round picks. You go back to, you know, they had a couple in the year 2020 when they took Neesmith and Pritchard and Desmond Bain kind of. But you know, traded them away immediately. Since then, a second rounder in 21, a second rounder in 22, a second rounder in 23 and then 24 and 25. You did have one of, one of each. Those were Shireman of course and Ugo and Jury's out on both those guys. I'm not going to evaluate whether those are hits or misses this young. You know, not, not 50 games into Shireman's career and not 20 into Ugo.

Dan Greenberg (28:11)

Ugo's ahead. No, I've seen enough. Who goes ahead?

Adam Kaufman (28:15)

Fine, great. I hope, and I hope he is. But my point is they haven't had a whole lot of first round picks. So are you willing to deal one to get off Simon's deal if it means you're getting something in return that you're excited about?

Dan Greenberg (28:28)

See, I don't look at, I don't look. I looked at like Drew Holiday's deal as something you have to attach to get off of. Right. And they, they did for to some degree. They had to throw in some seconds and, and they had to take back Simon's contract. If you're going to trade him for someone like Zubotch, let's just say he's part of that package. That means the Clippers are rebuilding. So for a rebuilding team, your overpay is more for the player that you are getting but then also to convince them as a rebuilding team like they want assets. So even though Simons would be involved in that, let's say you have to give up two first round picks for that. For a player like that, I don't see that as giving up picks to get off Simons. If they trade Simons and you know, only take back a TPE like don't get anything in return. Yeah, that would be attaching a pick to sell off a contract. But the fact that he's an expiring deal has value. Like forget what it gives you as a player. If you're a team and you want to maybe have cap space to spend this summer and you're not really going anywhere, you want an expiring 27 million dollar deal just for the salary slot. So I think it's more of we don't what their mandate is. If they have to get under the luxury tax, they are not operating in a position of leverage. Other teams Know that maybe you have to add in a pick to entice them. Maybe it's not a first round pick, but a conditional second, what have you. But overall, as him being like the main money in a deal, I don't think his contract situation warrants you to have to attach picks to get off it. Because if he had, you know, one or two more years left at this number. Sure. But as an expiring, that has value to teams all across the league. Especially if it happens in February. You're only paying them what, like half of that, you know, 12 more of the 27. Like he's already made the majority of that money. I think it'll be easier to flip as opposed to. It was kind of a prayer that they were able to offload Drew considering he had 3, 4 more years left at like 35, 36 million plus, that is a harder contract to move.

Evan Valenti (31:02)

Yeah, I mean, I'm not. We don't know who's going to be dealing yet. And I think it's just we're a little too close. Everybody's too congested together to know like what you know, as, I mean, you know that the, the Washingtons, the Brooklyns, the teams that are absolutely terrible. Like those guys are obviously going to be trade partners potentially down the road. There are other teams that are still in the mix that might get more involved as we get closer to February here. And we know Brad usually likes to strike a little bit earlier like before people have the opportunity to really look around and pillage and, and find some guys.

Adam Kaufman (31:34)

I mean, you got a few more sack New Orleans. Yeah.

Evan Valenti (31:38)

But does Sacramento have anybody you want other than like Sabonis?

Adam Kaufman (31:41)

I would love Sabonis. But I, I hear what you're saying.

Adam Kaufman (31:46)

Charlotte.

Dan Greenberg (31:48)

I would love, I would love for them to try to steal Messi from the, from the Pelicans. Seven foot young center. They have so many bigs on that team.

Evan Valenti (32:00)

That's what I'm talking about right there. See, that's the stuff where you're looking around and you don't even think that he's a trade target. Then here comes Brad Stevens. Hey, we'll give you a little something to this guy. Then he comes in and he's awesome. That's the kind of move I'm talking about. Where.

Dan Greenberg (32:14)

And he's a low salary guy. Like, I think that is the Pat is who could be your next. Luke Cornett.

Evan Valenti (32:21)

Yeah. I mean look at the entire roster right now. They're full of guys, you know, Walsh, who's making what two Point something might not make it two points. Like, that's what the secret sauce of the Celtic season that has made things so awesome is the fact that the guys that have these minimum contracts are actually hitting in outperforming what their numbers.

Dan Greenberg (32:41)

Are they have legitimately. I think it's. If you consider Yuga or Ugo Also, it's like three. Three to four legitimate rotation players for a combined 10 million.

Dan Greenberg (32:55)

This was it. That was the goal.

Adam Kaufman (32:57)

That's what contending teams need to have.

Dan Greenberg (32:59)

Yeah, especially like that was. We were hoping one or two of these young guys would be a playable piece. They've all been playable, so it's like I can't see them. I just really struggle to see how they add, like, a 25 to $30 million player, especially at the big position. The names aren't even there at that salary range. I think it's much more likely a day. Ron Sharp from the Nets, a Messi from the Pelicans. Someone that, like, you know, your average fan may have zero idea of, but makes, I don't know, 4 to 6 million a year. That could also take Simon's deal to help you, like, if you can flip him, get under the luxury tax but still address your need. That is like the very definition of a grand slam. You just need to find out who that partner is going to be.

Evan Valenti (33:57)

I just can't believe we've gone 36 minutes to this podcast. We haven't mentioned how awesome Jordan Walsh is right now because, like, this is honestly the entire season, I think.

Adam Kaufman (34:06)

I mean, Lord knows everybody's excited about him. And, you know, I mean, every. Every, like, Forsberg, he's got his new man crush. I saw Noah tweeting last night that. That she's ready to say some things that are. That. That are gonna, you know, maybe. I feel like we're starting to. We're gonna get some, like, LeBron comparisons to.

Dan Greenberg (34:25)

No, he looks like baby Tatum. I'm telling you, he looks like baby Tatum.

Adam Kaufman (34:30)

All right, well, just to give people some of the numbers, and I know the numbers do not tell the story. It's the effort, the energy, the just frenetic presence on the floor and all of that. But some people like raw data, so let's give you some for him. Individually, he has appeared in 19 games, 11 starts, 21 minutes per game, seven points, about five rebounds. Aggressive on the offensive glass and assists. The turnover ratios, basically assist turnover ratio, 2 to 1 a steal per game, about half a block. In terms of the shooting stats, Walsh is at almost 60% shooting 45 and a half from 3, 81% from the free throw line, and most notably, and you've tweeted about this greening the Celtics 9 and 2 since he entered the starting lineup. So it's, you know, he is, I, I don't know that sort of. And maybe I'm talking out of turn when I say this. I don't know that in an ideal world he is a starter on, on a contending team, but maybe he's proving himself, you know, to be worthy of that. It's, you know, it's not like Oklahoma City who's just, you know, the, the poster child for greatness in the NBA right now. It's not like every member of that starting five is a household, you know, bona fide superstar. Could Jordan Walsh, you know, emerge into being a, a player of that caliber? A guy that, yeah, he's not your Brown, he's not your Tatum, he's not your white, but damity fits kind of thing. And so far, obviously on this team, Greenie, we've seen it. So what has impressed you the most? You know, build upon, please, your, your baby Tatum comparison. And what do you look for to him going forward?

Dan Greenberg (36:15)

I mean, it starts defensively. He's already one of the most versatile on ball defenders in the entire NBA. Fact, like, not debatable. We've seen him shut down all star point guards. We've seen him shut down all star wings. We just saw him hold Austin Reeves to without a made basket in 23 possessions. This is the guy averaging like 35 a game and he couldn't score on Jordan Walsh. That alone tells me he deserves to see the floor for 30 minutes a night at a minimum. I even think if Tatum comes back this season, he needs to remain in the starting lineup for this season. In this version of the roster, you just, you can't, you can't miss having that positional versatility on the floor. The surprising part is the shooting. Like he's shooting 48% on catch and shoot threes. He made like three or four of them last night. You watch him, he's confident when he gets the ball. Now he knows what he has to do. He doesn't seem like he's out of control. And I think that is a result of getting more minutes, having positive moments on a court to help his confidence. And the small ball lineup has saved the big man situation because he rebounds. So you watch him play, his length, the way he moves, the way his shot looks, the way he dunks. It all looks like 1920 year old Jason Tatum. I pull the clips and I put them side by side. They look identical. And I'll tell you, they both were born on March 3rd.

Adam Kaufman (38:02)

It's an important detail to mix in.

Evan Valenti (38:04)

I think that seals the deal.

Dan Greenberg (38:06)

You know, their body types are the same and he's had three years of going up against Tatum to develop into the net. Now I'm not saying he's going to be, you know, five straight all first, you know, team NBA franchise player, but when you watch his body and how he moves, it looks a lot like how Jason Tatum looked and moved as a. He's 21 years old and this is what we're getting. What does he look like at 24?

Adam Kaufman (38:35)

Sure.

Dan Greenberg (38:36)

It's like, I don't know, it, the, the ideal situation for Jordan Walsh. I don't know what that looked like. Right. We were all hopeful. This was his opportunity to get real minutes and to show that, you know, he's a real NBA player. I was just hoping he would play good defense, make the extra pass and just, you know, not look like he did in summer league. What we're getting is something that is so beyond my wildest dreams. I saw. Did you guys see the, the Taylor Snow tweet where he's the first non center in NBA history to have a three game sample of 94% shooting?

Dan Greenberg (39:15)

This is a guy that couldn't get off the bench a month ago and now he's the first player in the history of the NBA to do something is just. I can't explain it. It's. I don't even know what we're witnessing right now. It's just so beyond what I even expected. And I own Jordan Walsh stock. You know, I'm building an addition on my house via Jordan watch stock. And even I can't believe it. It's. It's incredible.

Adam Kaufman (39:41)

I think this stuff.

Evan Valenti (39:42)

By the way.

Adam Kaufman (39:45)

To go back to the OKC thing real quick, like obviously, you know, I'm not sitting here. Oh, sga, Chad Holmgren, you know, I, Isaiah Hartenstein even, certainly not Jalen Williams, but like it. And these are not the same players. But in terms of sort of how he slides in next to some of these guys, like can Jordan Walsh be your, your Lou Dort, your case in Wallace? Yeah, Bruce, that kind of thing. And you know, like guys who start but are lesser pieces and. Yeah, I mean on a contending team maybe he can obviously, but. Sorry, go ahead.

Evan Valenti (40:13)

No, I mean the stuff that gets me really excited is the stuff that the, like the, the feel the game, stuff like there are, there are two moments in the Lakers game on Friday night that I really like. There was one, I believe it's in the first half where gets the ball left wing in the three, left corner.

Dan Greenberg (40:31)

And I know exactly what you're talking about.

Evan Valenti (40:33)

Shoulder into a guy to get him off him, drives the basket, pulls the guy on the lane, then just dumps it off for an easy dunk. I was like, that's freaking awesome for a 21 year old. And then in the other, he's got a great play where I believe the Lakers are playing some sort of zone. It looked like a 3, 2 zone at the moment, but you know, zones kind of, they miss and match and they kind of, they kind of rotate and do things. So it might have been a two, three zone, whatever. It was a zone. I just know that for a fact. So Jordan Walsh flashes to the middle of the zone like he's going to catch a pass. But he's only doing that to pull the defender off of Sam Houser because Sam Houser is right next to him. So the defender comes down to guard Walsh in the middle of the zone. But it really opened up Hauser for a wide open three and Hauser absolutely buried it. So I was like, this is a guy who understands his particular gravity on the floor at this moment. If I can just get this defender to come down a little bit, that's gonna give him maybe the best three point shoot of the team. A wide open shot at the, you know, on the left wing. I mean, that's the kind of stuff I get excited for a bunch of things. The defense, obviously it's like ridiculous. But the other parts of his game where it's like, you either have it or you don't. This guy understands the flow and the feel of a game. And at 21 years old, to do this without playing with these guys, like you got a lot of G league run, we know that, but like not with the big, the big club. Like this stuff that happened organically is like such a hit.

Dan Greenberg (41:59)

It is unbelievable.

Adam Kaufman (42:01)

Believe it.

Evan Valenti (42:01)

And so like we talk about building additions on your island for your, you know, your, your wall stuff. Like. Yeah, I don't even know, like the ceiling is the roof. Like, I don't know where we were going here, but it's the biggest development of the entire season that Jordan Walsh is not only a good basketball player, he is now, to me, untouchable. I don't, I've never, I mean, I'm never trading that guy. No way. Absolutely no way because he's only going to get better from here.

Dan Greenberg (42:32)

I mean you could make the case again. You could, you know, hook the, the Kool Aid right to your main line and say I totally am. He is. He's arguably one of the most important pieces of the next championship roster. And I'm not even kidding.

Dan Greenberg (42:50)

Between the positions, between the positions that he can guard his salary, price and if he's gonna be a high 30s three point shooter like okay, 48, a little insane. So let's bring that back down to you know, a passable level.

Dan Greenberg (43:09)

That is as valuable as a piece to the next version of this roster. As a big man, as a backup guard, as any other position that they have. It allows you to.

Dan Greenberg (43:23)

You say, you know what, Jaylen Brown, don't worry about guarding the other best player. We're going to sick this pit bull six, you know, seven foot wingspan guy. So he'll handle all of those miles. It saves the legs of your two most important players. It allows you to play small. He can fit with big lineups. I'm telling you, if he stays on this trajectory, he is the most non Tatum and Brown asset on this roster when it comes to the next version of the team.

Evan Valenti (43:54)

Kaufman, can I throw a comp at you? And Greeny's debut. I've always thought Jordan Walsh like I'm not quite sure what he would be but the high end version of Jordan Walsh is like a tayshawn prince and he just keeps getting a little closer and a little closer to that every single week.

Adam Kaufman (44:09)

It's.

Dan Greenberg (44:09)

And I'm not going to be like RJ Kirilenko.

Evan Valenti (44:14)

Yeah, I love AK47.

Adam Kaufman (44:17)

That's a throwback.

Dan Greenberg (44:19)

You might have to to YouTube his highlights because he's like what like early 2000s, mid 2000s, it's been a minute.

Evan Valenti (44:27)

But like the youngsters out there like.

Dan Greenberg (44:30)

AK47 ran in those days back in for the Jazz and I just, I don't know, it's just. You want to put a ceiling on it. But I. What we're seeing now I never would have expected to be possible.

Adam Kaufman (44:44)

So I'm not ever going to put a ceiling on a 21 year old period. I don't care what he's doing out there. I'm not going to put. What I do want to see obviously is something that's more than an 11 game sample size. A few weeks sample size and I think we all agree with that. Like you said, water is going to find its level to a certain degree. But what is this dude's you know, median range. And it's going to be really fun to see. You know, one thing that we talked about ev, I don't remember when on this show, I mean, for the. These all blend together, it could have been two weeks ago, could have been a month and a half ago, I have no idea. But one of the things that we said is, you know, kind of a potential blessing in disguise to this Tatum situation, in comparing it to that 201718 season, was that obviously Hayward goes down, Irving goes down, all of a sudden, Brown, Tatum. Not that anyone expected a run to the conference finals and coming, you know, moments really away from reaching the NBA Finals, but what we did get out of the year was younger players who you even then envisioned to be obviously part of your long term core. I mean, look at the draft stock. Obviously both, you know, third overall picks, all of that. But what we did look at was, okay, I mean, this sucks. Like, we wish we had a healthy Hayward and Irving and this thing was kind of going according to plan and all that. But the upside is these younger players who are in their, you know, Tatum's 19, Browns 21, whatever it was, these guys are getting thrust into a situation that we never in a million years could have anticipated they would be in, which is only going to help them in the long term. And so we made that comparison obviously then, you know, like earlier in this season or late in the off season, whatever it was, to that year with some of these guys with, you know, if, like this is where we find out, most importantly between Walsh, Scheimen, Ugo, Minot, like all these, you know, cheaper sort of back end rotational pieces as we envision them at the time, who's even part of the next iteration of the championship? Celtics. That's the number one thing this team had to identify. And then once you feel like you've started to identify those guys, they're getting a sort of run and opportunity right now that with a healthy Tatum and a roster that doesn't turn over as much as it did, they never would have had. Which is part of the reason why, you know, a guy like Neesmith is playing somewhere else. You know, there, there wasn't the window to kind of like make mistakes and grow and still get opportunity as you would on a middling, maybe even a bad team. So, you know, I think one, it's been a lot of fun, you know, especially like the Lakers blow out with no LeBron, no Luca, fine, whatever it is, wins a win. It just feels good to beat the Lakers. The Wizards, they're trash. But you know, to in the stretch prior to that, you know, to end the Detroit winning streak, to, you know, competitive and almost win in Minnesota against a team that's gone back to back in the Western Conference finals, you know, to win at Cleveland, which a lot of people coming into the year, that's the team to beat in the east to beat New York at home. A team that absolutely hates you. It doesn't matter what your roster looks like, it just loads you. To beat all of these teams and play competitive with all of these teams says something about where this team could be going. Obviously like this is not fluky. One offs are fluky like earlier this year, you know, I don't know what's a good example. Beating Cleveland the first time around the end of October felt a little one off, right? And both neither team was at full strength for that game anyway. You go on a run like this, it's sort of announcing, okay, like the east is pretty mediocre and the Celtics can absolutely compete with this group. And oh by the way, if they get Jason Tatum, my God, if they make an addition at in the front court, my God. Now that's all to say. We're still talking about the East. We're not talking about being able to knock off the Juggernaut Thunder or even the, you know, Nuggets if they're healthy and teams like that in the West. We're just talking about coming out of the East. But you've got Toronto on Sunday in Toronto, a team that I'm not as high on. But no question the record has been good, the team has performed well. You're at Milwaukee. That should in theory be an easy win with no Giannis. But then you're back home. You got Detroit again, you got Miami, a team that is always going to be pesky. Toronto, like this is still a pre Christmas stretch of teams that are difficult and if the Celtics green just continue doing what they're doing and all of a sudden, I don't know what the exact math is in terms of games played, but you're six games over.500 right now. If you're sitting eight, nine games over.500 at the end of this run, building upon what you're doing at the moment. I mean, like we said, I mean.

Dan Greenberg (49:41)

I did the math, I did the math yesterday.

Adam Kaufman (49:44)

Please go ahead.

Dan Greenberg (49:44)

I did the math yesterday. So I figured they were going to beat the Lakers because I mean, why wouldn't you, right? So I looked at their. The it's like a five game set that you just rambled off. And then they go on for their first west coast trip of the year. But, but they're playing all kind of bad west coast teams like the Jazz, the Clippers, the Kings, blah, blah, blah. So it was an 11 game sample from last night through that west coast trip. If they go 7 and 4 over those 11 games, that'll take them what into like 36 games played right around on the season.

Adam Kaufman (50:24)

Sure.

Dan Greenberg (50:24)

They'll be on a 50 win pace through 36, 37 games. If they go 7 and 4 over.

Adam Kaufman (50:31)

Their next 11 takes you basically to the new year. A little bit deeper into that.

Dan Greenberg (50:36)

Yeah, it's like they'll begin 20, 26 on a 50, on a 50 win pace. Insane.

Adam Kaufman (50:43)

It's, it's over.

Evan Valenti (50:45)

Regretting not putting the Celtics on during Christmas. Tell you that right now, would you?

Adam Kaufman (50:48)

Right.

Dan Greenberg (50:49)

I want to know what you guys think. Even though we saw him win 57 games after being named the head coach 30 seconds before the, the season, even though we saw him lead them to a title and one of the greatest individual seasons in NBA history and then follow that up with 61 wins, this might be the most impressive Joe Missoula season of his Celtics career.

Evan Valenti (51:12)

Not even close.

Adam Kaufman (51:13)

I don't think it's close.

Evan Valenti (51:13)

I don't think it's close.

Dan Greenberg (51:14)

It's unbelievable. My concern, like we were all thinking how are they going to survive offensively without their son? That all things orbit around. They have the third best offense in the NBA.

Adam Kaufman (51:27)

Yeah, it's, it's not close. And again, like to. Because I, I figured we'd be talking about this and I, our, our buddy Seth, who I mentioned before, who's been on the show obviously with us multiple times. I was, you know, we were texting last night in the group thread there, Ev. And I'm just, I'm finding it here. But I, I asked him because he's, he's certainly a Missoula defender and I think we're all Missoula defenders and in our own way. And I, I discussed this very thing and Seth said Joe gets no credit for this team playing a completely different strategical game this year.

Dan Greenberg (52:01)

Everything, everything is different.

Adam Kaufman (52:02)

And I, and I said I agree and it's unfortunate and please tell me more. And he says even I didn't realize they were fouling more than anyone in the league. Basically last year they never fouled, never generated turnovers, didn't get offensive rebounds, led the league in defensive rebounding. This year with a totally different roster, they're last in defensive rebounding but they're crashing the offensive glass. They're willing to trade fouls for turnovers. So what I'm saying really is that they are not dogmatic. He's coaching the roster that he has and I think this is why he gets frustrated with all the threes discourse.

Dan Greenberg (52:38)

Yep. And I'm right there with him and I will even add to that, please. The Boston Celtics lead the NBA in mid range field goals. They went. They've not only slightly increased their number, they've gone from like 7 a game last year to 14 a game this year. They've doubled it. Okay. They've completely removed post op offense from their arsenal. They don't post up anymore. Their isolation offense is down. They, their off screen offense is way up. They're taking more twos than threes in every game that they play. Basically their three point attempt rate is down to 47% from 52% last year. The thing that people love to say, he doesn't make adjustments. All they do is chuck threes. It's like you can't watch the 2025 Celtics and form that conclusion because nothing that they are doing on either end of they're picking up and guarding 94ft every single possession. So when the they started 0 and 3 or they shoot 50 threes and they lose to Utah and everyone's like see idiot Missoula, they can't play this way. This is so stupid. It's like just take a second and understand what you are watching. Yes, there will be games like last night where they shoot 45 threes and and they make 24 of them. But look at how they're generated. Look at how they're scoring, look at how they're playing on offense. Nothing about this is similar to anything we have seen in the Missoula era. And he has to be the early on favorite for coach of the year because he's doing this without his best player and he's doing it with guys that were literal career DNPs that he is now turning into rotation players that have the second best point differential in the conference. You're winning at a 50 win pace with players that couldn't get off the bench.

Evan Valenti (54:37)

Like I can't answer. By the way, you're 50 winter.

Adam Kaufman (54:45)

I I'll answer your award comment just to pull up the Vegas odds for coach.

Dan Greenberg (54:49)

I bet you he's not even top three. I bet you he's not even in the top three.

Adam Kaufman (54:53)

These are all of the guys that are listed ahead of Joe Missoula in the Vegas Odds for coach of the year. Bickerstaff with the Pistons is the favorite. Thunder.

Dan Greenberg (55:05)

Why?

Adam Kaufman (55:06)

Whoever, however, Darko, however I pronounce it, there were the Raptors, Spolstra with the Heat, Mitch Johnson with the Spurs, Jordan Ott with the Suns, Eme with the Rockets, JJ in la, like it's crazy. Mosley with the Magic, Snyder with the Hawks. And then you get to Joe Missoula.

Dan Greenberg (55:28)

Like that's blatantly insane. Like that is the most insane thing.

Adam Kaufman (55:32)

I think that's the number 30 to 1.

Dan Greenberg (55:39)

Mark Dagno.

Guinness Narrator (55:40)

Who.

Dan Greenberg (55:41)

Like they won.

Evan Valenti (55:42)

Well, they're 221 last year. They're 22 1.

Adam Kaufman (55:46)

Yeah, I mean, I. And they. And they've done most of it without their second best player.

Dan Greenberg (55:51)

Where was Joe Missoula when the Celtics were winning 60 win pace after winning the title was he had to be favorite? No, they said, oh, you have a super team. You have all this talent. Anybody could win with that roster. Why is it not the same?

Adam Kaufman (56:05)

Now what I will say is I don't know how he is behind and I'll just name the teams. Heat, Suns, Rockets, Magic.

Evan Valenti (56:16)

The Magic. The Magic really got me fired up.

Adam Kaufman (56:21)

Honestly. JJ should be higher. Truly, if. If I'm. If I'm removing.

Dan Greenberg (56:25)

Hey, you just weren't built to ass on jj. JJ had no. Had no answer.

Adam Kaufman (56:29)

He had no players.

Dan Greenberg (56:31)

Who's Luca? Who's Luca? Doncic guarding and locking up. That's preventing you from.

Adam Kaufman (56:36)

I'm not, I'm not fighting. I'm not fighting against Joe. I'm not even saying Joe should be behind jj. I'm just saying JJ should be higher on this board than where I read his name.

Dan Greenberg (56:44)

Okay. I'm a JJ guy, so fine. But even still.

Adam Kaufman (56:48)

Anyway.

Dan Greenberg (56:49)

Yeah, what is it? What is it like he wasn't in is first year.

Adam Kaufman (56:55)

He never got likable. Is that what it is? Is this a personal vendetta? Vegas?

Dan Greenberg (57:03)

I just don't understand. It's like you would think in year one, like that's the very definition of coach of the year because they won 57 games and he was named the coach 30 seconds before the season. Okay. There were a lot of people though.

Adam Kaufman (57:16)

That I. I think there are a lot of people that looked at the roster the last couple of years, not this year, and said, this is a roll the ball out and let him play situation. I'm not saying why is Mark D.

Dan Greenberg (57:27)

So then why is Mark Dagno in the top three.

Adam Kaufman (57:32)

Again?

Dan Greenberg (57:33)

Do they not have a great roster?

Adam Kaufman (57:35)

I think there. I think there are double standards. Involved here.

Dan Greenberg (57:39)

Right? Like when. When the Celtics were having their historic season. You know, we didn't hear about him being coach of the. I just. And I think the same thing was always true with Tatum's MVP case. How many times did we hear his teammates and the talent around him get used against them? Well, why does that not happen with any other player in the NBA?

Adam Kaufman (58:00)

Get it?

Dan Greenberg (58:03)

Those crazy anti Boston media. I'll tell you.

Evan Valenti (58:06)

I know, but we got defensive player of the year award though. We. We used all.

Dan Greenberg (58:11)

I'm going home with something.

Adam Kaufman (58:12)

That's right.

Adam Kaufman (58:15)

So Sunday afternoon, Matt. Hey, right in the middle of your NFL watch. But at least the Patriots don't play this weekend. So you got that going for you. Celtics at Toronto. Flip over from red zone and watch that for a little bit. 3:30 Eastern and then don't play again until Thursday at Milwaukee. So you know, get through tomorrow, win that game, be healthy. Then you get yourselves a nice little kind of mini buy of their own, so to speak. Yep.

Dan Greenberg (58:41)

Three games over 13 days or something. Something crazy like that.

Adam Kaufman (58:45)

Yeah, it is. It's pretty nuts, but good. They've earned it. They've earned it. They're playing great. It's a fun show that we had here today. A lot of it's, you know, in past weeks I feel like we've gotten into some minutia with specific games. This was a good big picture edition of Celtics Beat. Talking trades Bigs achievement and the mfing Boston Celtics are back, baby.

Dan Greenberg (59:09)

Back. I got people I'm seeing on Twitter are crying that the Celtics take too many threes and are boring to watch. It's like so back. I can't even handle it.

Adam Kaufman (59:18)

Back. Like they never left. All right, Barstool Greenie as we know him. Get him on Twitter at stool Greeny and Evan Valenti again, I hope you can see him, but if you can't, we'll get that corrected for the next one. Ev make make a funny face for the people just in case they can.

Evan Valenti (59:35)

See you doing it for the past 20 minutes. My guy.

Adam Kaufman (59:37)

I can only assume that you're doing it now. I can't tell. All right, thanks all of you out there. If you want the audio, you don't have to worry about seeing any of us download. Celtics Beat. Subscribe rate, review all of that good stuff wherever you get your podcast, the many, many platforms that we are available to you and of course if you do want the video for at least two thirds of the show, you can check out the CLNS YouTube page, specifically the all access page for a lot of great Celtics based content across the network. We thank you again and yeah, next time we convene two more games under the Celtics belts and hopefully a couple more wins for a six game streak as well. We'll talk to you soon. Enjoy your football Sunday.

Guinness Narrator (60:16)

Join Vanguard for a moment of meditation. Take a deep breath. Picture yourself reaching your financial goals. Feel that freedom. Visit vanguard.com investinginu to learn more. All investing is subject to risk. Starting a business can seem like a daunting task unless you have a partner like Shopify. They have the tools you need to start and grow your business. From designing a website to marketing to selling and beyond, Shopify can help with everything you need. There's a reason millions of companies like Mattel, Heinz and Allbirds continue to trust and use them. With Shopify on your side, turn your big business idea into Sign up for your $1 per month trial@shopify.com specialoffer.