Celtics Beat – Episode 655: Celtics Need Scoring MORE THAN Size w/ Gary Washburn

Date: December 18, 2025
Host: Adam Kaufman (A)
Co-host: Evan Valenti (C)
Guest: Gary Washburn, The Boston Globe (B)
Outline: Assessing the Celtics' start, roster construction, trade priorities, and the NBA Cup’s place in the modern league.

Episode Overview

In this episode, Adam Kaufman and Evan Valenti are joined by Gary Washburn of The Boston Globe for a lively, insightful breakdown of the Boston Celtics' season so far. The trio explores the Celtics' better-than-expected competitiveness amid roster turnover, debates whether the team’s greatest need is scoring or size, and evaluates how Brad Stevens and the Celtics’ front office have defied preseason “gap year” expectations. The first third of the show also delivers a spirited discussion about the NBA’s in-season tournament (“NBA Cup”)—its purpose, confusing structure, and whether it truly addresses the state of regular-season basketball.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The NBA Cup: Its Role and Relevance

[03:14–25:08]

• Debate Over Value & Structure:
  Adam, Gary, and Evan discuss the NBA Cup, poking fun at its confusing status, lack of statistical consistency, and whether it really changes the midseason energy of NBA basketball.

  Adam:

  • Calls the tournament “stupid” and “dumb,” focusing on how the final doesn’t count toward player or team stats, but counts for games played for awards eligibility.
  • Critiques NBA’s indecision: "It can't not be a win, but it's a game. The stats can't not matter, but it's a game." [08:36]

  Gary:

  • Acknowledges the added energy and TV ratings motive but questions long-term resonance:
    “We're bending over backwards for television. We're bending over backwards for attention, for ratings. That's part of what this...tournament is to get ratings, to get attention.” [13:10]
  • Notes that the NBA is reaching for international and NFL-level cultural relevance, but says this level of artificial hype (like international NFL games) may not pay off.

  Evan:

  • Gives the tournament credit for producing exciting basketball: “Last night felt a little like something. It felt like kind of like an event.” [15:18]
  • Supports the “proof of concept” but agrees that structure/stats need fixing.

Notable Quotes

• “You just kind of sound like a nerd, my guy... I thought the basketball last night was amazing.” – Evan (C) [15:18]
• “It can't not be a win, but it's a game... All for award consideration. That to me, it's just, it's stupid. The league needs to figure this out.” – Adam (A) [08:36]
• “We're bending over backwards for television... That's part of what this... tournament is to get ratings, to get attention.” – Gary (B) [13:10]

2. How the Celtics Stack Up in an Unimpressive East

[30:37–36:16]

• Celtics Surpassing Expectations:
  Adam highlights the Celtics’ resilience in a mediocre Eastern Conference, referencing preseason doubts and thanking Gary for his bullish summer predictions.

  Gary:

  • “The Celtics have a chance here. They're not championship level... but the East is not good. The East is not good. There's a lot of teams just muddling.”
  • Lists rival teams’ inconsistencies, injuries, and underachievement as key context.

  Adam:

  • Points out the flexibility debate: Should the Celtics make a deal (especially before Tatum returns)? Can this roster justify an “all in” move?

3. What Do the Celtics Need Most: Scoring or Size?

[41:13–52:40]

• Gary’s Take:

  • Strongly believes more scoring is the greater need:
    “I think they need points off the bench, personally.” [41:13] “I think the reason they lost to Detroit was they got outscored 47 to 14 off the bench.” [41:23]
  • Points out that Sam Hauser’s struggles (not hitting threes, not getting to the line) and lack of scoring depth put greater pressure on Jalen Brown, Derrick White, and Peyton Pritchard.
  • Sizing up cheap, gettable bigs (Marvin Bagley, Nurkic, Nick Richards) but doubts true “needle-movers” are available or that giving up major assets is justified.

• Evan & Adam’s View:

  • Acknowledge the bench’s offensive drought, but stress the limited trade value of current assets.
  • “It just seems... if it were that easy, [Simons] wouldn't be on the team right now.” – Evan (C) [44:40]

Notable Quotes

• “But the emphasis is on a big, isn't it?” – Adam (A) [41:10]
• “That’s more of a concern to you than size?” – Adam (A) [41:20]
• “Yes. I think your defense is fine. I think they need point [scoring].” – Gary (B) [41:22]

4. Celtics’ Front Office and Coaching Get Their Due

[52:40–57:00]

• Brad Stevens & Team Praised for Resourcefulness:
  Adam argues this season’s roster (Walsh, Minott, Ugo, Simons) might be outperforming what last year’s full-strength group could have achieved.

  • “Does basketball ops get enough credit for making those moves? … I think one could make the case this group is actually playing better than if you ran the whole thing back from last year, minus Tatum.” – Adam (A) [54:33]

  Gary’s Response:

  • Gives front office & Joe Mazzulla significant credit:
    “They deserve a lot of credit... Brad for scouring the benches. ...if I had asked you guys who Josh Minot is, you guys would have been, you know, a year ago, you guys would have been like, yeah, no, like, what team is he on?” [54:46]
  • Praises player development—Walsh, Minott, Simons deals as examples of finding value and maximizing fit.

  Evan:

  • Repeats: “They've done a remarkable job getting guys that fit their, their mindset, their culture...much more enjoyable than I would have expected.” [59:38]

5. Celtics’ Developmental Philosophy & Lessons Learned

[61:06–64:01]

• Learning from Past Mistakes:
  Gary highlights how Boston’s front office has changed approach after letting Max Strus and Aaron Nesmith develop elsewhere:

  • On Hauser: "We're not going to let this guy go. Even though he's not ready, we're going to get him ready." [63:45]

  • On youth and hustle: “With Minot and Walsh, it’s the NeSmith effect. Ugo reminds me a lot of Aaron NeSmith, playing with his hair on fire... now you've got three wings on that kind of trajectory...” [61:22–63:17]

Memorable Moments & Quotes (with Timestamps)

• [08:36] “It can't not be a win, but it's a game... The stats can't not matter, but it's a game.” – Adam
• [13:10] “We're bending over backwards for television... for ratings.” – Gary
• [15:18] “You just kind of sound like a nerd, my guy... I thought the basketball last night was amazing.” – Evan
• [41:13] “I think they need some points off the bench, personally.” – Gary
• [41:23] “They need a bucket getter... I think the reason they lost to Detroit was they got outscored 47 to 14 off the bench … you need a dude who can come off the bench. Joe does not have anybody besides Simons who can really drop buckets.” – Gary
• [54:46] “They deserve a lot of credit... Brad for scouring the benches...” – Gary
• [63:45] “We're not going to let this guy [Hauser] go. Even though he's not ready, we're going to get him ready.” – Gary

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [03:14–15:18]: NBA Cup debate, Adam and Gary’s criticism of formatting and meaning
• [15:18–25:08]: Broader context—comparisons to previous NBA eras, internationalization, TV impact
• [30:37–36:16]: Celtics’ surprising Eastern Conference standing & playoff outlook
• [41:13–52:40]: Trade targets, “scoring vs. size,” bench struggles, state of Celtics’ depth
• [54:38–57:00]: Celtics’ front office resourcefulness, development of unheralded players
• [61:06–64:01]: Boston’s developmental philosophy; Max Strus, Aaron Nesmith mistakes, culture/fit prioritization

Conclusion (Podcast Tone Maintained)

While Adam wryly laments the NBA’s perpetual quest for relevance and consistency, Gary’s measured optimism about Boston’s present and future is infectious. Boston isn’t a championship favorite—yet—but their overachieving, scrappy “next wave” is thriving thanks to collective buy-in, front office shrewdness, and arguably a roster more fun and flexible than expected. The call: Watch for moves at the deadline—a scorer is priority #1.

For More

• Find Gary Washburn’s Celtics coverage at The Boston Globe
• Catch the Big Three podcast (also on CLNS)
• Celtics Beat uploads weekly on all major podcast platforms

Happy holidays, Celtics fans. See you next week!