657: Is Jaylen Brown Overreacting to Lack of Recognition? w/ Brian Barrett

Summary

Celtics Beat Episode 657: Is Jaylen Brown Overreacting to Lack of Recognition?

Air Date: January 3, 2026
Host: Adam Kaufman (with Evan Valenti)
Guest: Brian Barrett (The Ringer, Spotify)

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Overview of Episode

This episode of Celtics Beat dives deep into the Boston Celtics’ recent performance, player development, and evolving team identity as the squad continues to exceed expectations despite high-profile injuries. The central focus is on Jaylen Brown’s stellar play and visible frustration with a lack of league-wide recognition—the topic driving the probing question: Is Jaylen Brown overreacting to his perceived snubs for awards like Eastern Conference Player of the Month and in All-Star voting? The conversation also explores roster moves, front office savvy, and the comparative evaluation of Coach Joe Mazzulla for Coach of the Year.

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Main Discussion Points & Insights

Celtics' Current Form & Exceeding Expectations

(07:08–11:00)

• Adam Kaufman celebrates the Celtics’ consistency and resilience, highlighting their strong standing despite injuries to key players (Tatum, Porzingis, Drew, Al, Cornette).
• Brian Barrett: "Feeling really good. I don’t know how you couldn’t be...Jalen Brown’s having by far his best season. You don’t usually see this from a player this deep in his career, but he did. Jordan Walsh has now been a revelation..." (09:01)
• Unexpected contributors like Ugo Gonzalez and Luca Garza have stepped up, changing the rotation and adding defensive depth.
• Evan Valenti notes the team is on a 55-win pace even after major losses from the rotation. There’s still healthy skepticism about how the team would hold up against elite competition, but praise for player development and adaptability.

Jalen Brown’s Leap and All-Star Recognition

(11:16–18:20; 38:13–49:28)

• Jaylen Brown is acknowledged for his offensive explosion and new dimension as a playmaker.
• Brian Barrett: "He’s been the best, one of the best midrange shooters in the league…but maybe the biggest development has been Hugo Gonzalez and Jordan Walsh being ready to contribute right now." (26:04)
• Host and guests agree Brown’s player-of-the-month snub in favor of Jalen Brunson was unfounded, citing superior stats across nearly every category.
  • Adam Kaufman: "I am not quibbling for one second with Jaylen Brown’s frustration about not winning that award because obviously it’s important to him. But...to not be recognized for Eastern Conference Player of the Month and feel the need to tweet about it feels a little like...can’t you just be frustrated about that one behind closed doors?" (38:39, 40:20)
• Mixed feelings about Brown reacting publicly (via 'smh' tweet):
  • Brian Barrett: "I did think it was a little weird that he tweeted the SMH when Jalen Brunson won...he kind of is a troll...he just says whatever is on his mind." (42:10)
  • Evan Valenti: "If this is what it takes to get this version of Jaylen Brown, I'm all for it. He’s been amazing." (46:27)
• The guys compare Brown’s motivational chip to greats like Michael Jordan and examine whether that public aversion to being overlooked is a positive or points to something deeper.

Coaching, Front Office, and Player Development

(15:27–27:21)

• Joe Mazzulla’s understated but highly effective management earns ongoing praise.
  • Adam Kaufman: "I’m still not sure...Joe is getting enough credit for truly maximizing this roster to the point where...that’s a 50-win pace." (17:57)
• Conversation about Coach of the Year odds: general agreement that J.B. Bickerstaff and Mitch Johnson have legitimate cases (Pistons and Spurs, respectively), but there’s a sense the Celtics’ staff as a whole deserves more credit for reinventing the style of play and finding roles for new contributors.
• Brad Stevens’ draft philosophy of targeting young, athletic wings is highlighted as a long-term asset, especially in light of the restrictive new CBA:
  • Brian Barrett: "Those picks could be massive going forward because...it’s really important to hit on some of these young picks." (26:03)
• Celtics’ cohesive organizational approach, across coaches and scouting, is credited for success despite injuries and the “constant communication” up and down.

Jaylen Brown’s Career Year & What’s Next

(49:28–58:47)

• Discussion about how Brown’s expanded skillset (midrange scoring, assists, attacking the rim) alters his trajectory even alongside Tatum moving forward.
• Brian Barrett: "From a pure basketball standpoint, he actually has more moves too now...only the best players can take those shots...because they’re not analytically friendly." (51:23)
• Everyone agrees that Brown’s new willingness (and ability) to get to the line, live in the midrange, and facilitate should remain a staple even when Tatum returns, with only a likely modest decline in raw production.

Team Needs, Trade Deadline, and the Big Man Question

(61:08–71:38)

• Adam stresses the need to use Simons’ expiring contract to upgrade at center, advocating for “an actual big who makes an actual salary.”
  • Cited names include Ivica Zubac, Nic Claxton; debate whether their acquisition would meaningfully change the Celtics’ prospects.
• Brian Barrett: "I don’t see them doing anything dramatic at the deadline...If anything, I think they revisit that next offseason." (71:38)
• Team’s rebounding struggles against elite offensive rebounding teams noted as Achilles’ heel, fueling the need for roster addition.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Jalen Brown’s motivation and personality:
  • "He just says whatever is on his mind...He just likes being part of the conversation." — Brian Barrett (42:10)
  • "If this is what it takes to get this version of Jaylen Brown, I’m all for it. He’s been amazing." — Evan Valenti (46:27)
  • "These guys are wired differently. Michael Jordan was looking for any little slight he could possibly get to fuel him to kill somebody." — Evan Valenti (44:30)
• On team’s unexpected resilience:
  • "Just when I thought, all right, we got to go...Now all of a sudden, Garza is a thing. Garza is part of the rotation…I thought they were just going to say, hey, when K is off the floor, we're playing small. But now Garza has been critical to their success lately." — Brian Barrett (09:01)
  • "They’re on a 55-win pace, losing Drew, Al, Cornette, Porzingis and Tatum, basically for the entire year. This is some crazy stuff." — Evan Valenti (11:02)
• On coaching recognition:
  • "The man needs his due." — Adam Kaufman on Joe Mazzulla (18:07)
• On player development and the lottery:
  • _"Maybe the biggest development has been Hugo Gonzalez and Jordan Walsh being ready to contribute right now." — Brian Barrett (26:04)
• On need for a big and trade deadline:
  • "I’m going to be disappointed if the trade deadline rolls around and the Celtics haven’t addressed their need for a legitimate big..." — Adam Kaufman (65:03)

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Key Timestamps

• 07:08 – Team’s current record and remaining schedule outlook
• 09:01 – Brian Barrett on Celtics’ exceeded pre-season expectations
• 11:16 – Rotation surprises: Jordan Walsh, Ugo Gonzalez, Luca Garza
• 12:33 – Garza's performance, screen assists, rebounding (stat data)
• 17:57 – Coach of the Year debate and odds
• 26:04 – Brad Stevens’ draft philosophy and CBA ramifications
• 38:39 – Jaylen Brown’s public reaction to award snubs
• 42:10 – Barrett & Valenti discuss Brown’s social media approach
• 46:27 – Valenti on Brown’s transformation and ‘if it works, let him be’
• 51:23 – What does “next-level” Brown look like when Tatum returns?
• 61:08 – Kaufman: must add a legitimate big at trade deadline
• 65:03 – National/media under-discussion of Celtics’ cap/trade situation
• 68:15 – Would Zubac/Claxton truly change the team’s fortunes?
• 71:38 – Barrett: “I don’t see them doing anything dramatic at the deadline.”

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Episode Tone & Style

The conversation is analytical, candid, and energetic, with a mix of statistical deep-dives and banter. The panel is clearly passionate about not just the Celtics but the NBA at large, blending fan-like urgency (“We need another big!”) with measured optimism about the franchise’s future and flexibility. The approach to Jaylen Brown’s sensitivity is empathetic but light-hearted, poking fun without derision and always returning to his on-court excellence.

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Summary Takeaways

• Jaylen Brown’s leap is real: He’s performing at an All-NBA level, and if the Celtics’ success continues, he’s a dark horse MVP candidate.
• Brown’s public frustration isn’t harming the team: His chip-on-the-shoulder mentality is fueling career-best performances. If airing grievances on social media helps, so be it.
• Front office deserves praise: Boston’s ability to identify and maximize under-the-radar talent (Walsh, Ugo, Garza) is a lifeline under the new CBA.
• The need for roster upgrades is pressing—especially at center: The consensus is clear: standing pat at the trade deadline would be a wasted opportunity, though practical obstacles remain.
• Regardless of national attention or award snubs, the Celtics are positioned as a legitimate contender with a complex, evolving identity.

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For full Celtics coverage and this dynamic banter each week, search ‘Celtics Beat’ wherever you get podcasts—or check out Adam, Evan, and Barrett on CLNS Media and The Ringer for more nuanced NBA takes.

Transcript

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[Adam Kaufman]

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[Evan Valenti]

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[Evan Valenti]

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[Evan Valenti]

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[Adam Kaufman]

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[Adam Kaufman]

Price. Just prize books, huh?

[Evan Valenti]

Yeah. Still waiting for my Omaha steaks gift basket.

[Adam Kaufman]

Yeah. Yes, please. Barrett, do you have a hard out since we're starting a half hour later than planned?

[Brian Barrett]

No, it's cool, man. As long as we're done by the game. So I don't think we're gonna run into that problem.

[Adam Kaufman]

Who do you have in today's games?

[Brian Barrett]

I just took a couple. I just took a couple of props, but I'm gonna watch it with a couple of my buddies. But I took. Let me see what I put in there. I parlayed like three props with Moneyline call troops. See what I did? Put Baker, 175, Bryce, 175, Tet 40, Evans, 30. Texas Tech, Vandy, Houston, Alabama already won. And Duke.

[Adam Kaufman]

Yeah, I had Bama also.

[Brian Barrett]

And I have Georgia. I say Georgia. They may lose by the time we're done with this. Who.

[Adam Kaufman]

Who do you think wins these two games?

[Brian Barrett]

I got no feel for the first one. I honestly don't. And second one, I. I don't know. Like Seattle's. I think Seattle should win. I just. I don't trust them, man. They like, run the ball way too much for a team that can't run well.

[Adam Kaufman]

Yeah, it's hard to trust Darnold this time of the year.

[Evan Valenti]

Yeah, I don't. I don't love watching Darnold at all.

[Brian Barrett]

Yeah, but. And I was 30 on my best bets last week, and I hit my or. Two weeks when I hit my money line parlay because we didn't give any out. Last week I did the combo college football and NFL last week. I. I hit Miami money line the other day. That was nice. And then I took Oregon. I took Oregon alternate minus six and a half. Those are the two games I felt good about. The other two games I didn't really have a read.

[Adam Kaufman]

I have an Indiana national championship ticket which. Oh, I mean, is. Is chalky, obviously, but it. I feel better about it with Ohio State getting knocked out, that's for sure.

[Evan Valenti]

Yeah, yeah.

[Brian Barrett]

Dude, that. Those lines of Miami. Ridiculous. Dude, they are huge.

[Adam Kaufman]

All right, let's get into it here. Okay. All right. Rolling. Yeah. For two and a half minutes. Three, two, one. Today is Saturday, January 3rd, and this is Celtics beat on CLNS Media, the leading online provider of audio video coverage of the Boston Celtics Picks, I'm Adam Kaufman. Episode 657 features the Ringer and Spotify's Brian Barrett.

[Evan Valenti]

And I'm Evan Valenti. And today's show is powered by Prize Picks. Prize Picks is the official daily fantasy partner of CLNS Media. Download the app today, use the promo code CLNS and get $50 in lineups when you play. $5.

[Adam Kaufman]

Okay, What's up everyone? Happy New Year 2026 has arrived. If I had, you know, streamers and the. What, what do you call the. Not like a blowhorn, but you know what I mean. The, the little, like the little tiny horn that everyone like. Happy New Year. That, that's not a good imitation of the horn, but Barretti kazoo. Would it be a kazoo? A little holiday kazoo? Is that what it is? Ultimately, if I had one.

[Evan Valenti]

Not what it is.

[Adam Kaufman]

Look, help. I, I. You know what? Doesn't even matter if I had one, I'd blow the thing for you to ring in 2026. We're here. We've arrived. And guess what? The Boston Celtics still looking like contenders at the very least in the Eastern Conference. Now really what they should be doing at the moment is heading for number eight on what I had marked down as a nine game winning streak. But instead they laid an egg in the middle of it. They've carried on with two straight wins since then. We're not going to hold them again. Hold it against them. They can go 8 and 1 during this nine game streak. I'm not going to complain. They have moved themselves now a game and a half back of the two seed in the Eastern conference, where of course the New York Knicks reside. But these two teams sitting Inside four games, three and a half, really, of the top spot and in the East. So this thing is holy, wholly open. Knowing full well a move needs to be made. We're pressing on it. We're sending emails daily to Brad Stevens. You got to do something, Brad, Mike, everybody involved there in that front office. And of course Jason Tatum, when you come back, buddy, we're watching for you. All things ahead to get excited about in 2026. And, and also I should mention this is just at this point, a Syracuse podcast going forward. We had Bobby Manning on with us last week. Brian Barrett this week, maybe next week, Adam Himmelsbach. It's just going to be Syracuse people. Maybe Carmelo Anthony at some point in time. I, I don't know how, how we'll get them, but we'll try. Barrett, Valenti, how are you?

[Brian Barrett]

I'm doing well. Fellas, how about you? Good.

[Evan Valenti]

Got that, good. Got that sickness going around. It's not great.

[Adam Kaufman]

Yeah, it's, it's, you know, tis the season, man. I mean, yeah, I, I guess it. There are no kids at home for you, so at least there's no, you don't have to worry about like the cesspool that is just constantly passing it from one to the other to the other. Once it's rid of you and hopefully your girlfriend doesn't have to deal with it, you guys are in the clear. Get it out of the house. Don't leave. Yeah. All right.

[Brian Barrett]

Well, good.

[Adam Kaufman]

That's a show. Thanks, everybody. Yeah. At the Clippers coming up tonight as we sit here right now. So by the time you listen that game, it's possible it'll already have been played. But obviously, as you know, it's a big picture show. It is not one that goes deep dives into games specifically. There are other shows out there, part of clns as well, of course, the Garden Report that will do that for you. So we always remind you, check out all of the clns Celtics properties. Go to the Celtics all access page. On the YouTube page you can. You'll get a lot of great seas content from a bevy of hosts, many of whom appear periodically here on this show. And if you're into just audio because you don't like looking at us, no harm, no foul, we're not offended. Go rate, review, download, subscribe, all that stuff, wherever you get your podcast. But yeah, it's the Clippers. Then it's back home against the Bulls. And then honestly, I mean, maybe another win because when I started doing my whole nine game winning streak thing The Nuggets game was looking a lot tougher than it does right now with the MVP in my mind, even though he's probably not going to hit the games played threshold to win it. Nicole Jokic unavailable, obviously for a period of time. Then you got the Raptors again. So maybe it's not until January 10th with the spurs and Wemby where life becomes very difficult. But why don't we, before we get into some of just how we're feeling about the team right now and things to go going forward and, you know, some of the other things. Joe Missoula, not that he gives a, is the coach of the Month again. Congrats to him. And Jaylen Brown is pissed off that he is, you know, not the Eastern Conference player of the month. It goes the other way and obviously the All Star voting has him a little bit further down the the fan vote board than he should be sitting. But for the 2025 back half, forget last year, just what we've seen from this first stretch of the season, how we feel in Barrett about this team.

[Brian Barrett]

Feeling really good. I don't know how you couldn't be right. I mean, you think about what maybe most of us thought coming into the season, it'd be nice to get a top 16. But I thought, hey, is there a world where the Celtics are in the lottery and maybe they end up with a nice young player to go along with Tatum and Jalen Brown going forward? I thought that was definitely a possibility with the front court. But the most exciting thing about this team is just new things continue to happen, right? You start off the season and Jalen Brown's having by far his best season. He has been unbelievable. Usually you don't see this from a player this deep in his career where he takes another leap, right? You see leaps periodically throughout an NBA career, but it's not usually. What is this? Jalen's 10th season, 9th season, 9th or 10th season. It usually doesn't happen at this point. It's usually already happened. So I didn't think he had another level to go up. He did. Jordan Walsh has now been a revelation, right, where he's been outstanding for this team defensively for the most part. And then all of a sudden Ugo gets in. And Ugo's been incredible for them to the point that they have a 102 defensive rating when he's on the court, which would be better than the Thunder, who have like an all time great defense. Statistically, if you look at some of the numbers to compare it to different Eras. And now all of a sudden, right, we thought that Luca Garza was not part of the rotation. And all of a sudden, the last six games, Luca Garza is playing well and they're plus 81 with them on the court over the last six games. So just when I thought, all right, we got to go. We got Jordan Walsh, we got these new development things that the team. Derek White's blocking seven shots at a game, which is just remarkable for a guard. Now all of a sudden, Garza is a thing. Garza is part of the rotation, which I thought that was done. I thought they were just going to say, hey, when K is off the floor, we're playing small. But now Garza has been critical to their success lately. So it's just been really fun to watch where and look, not that it hasn't been fun when they've been this juggernaut for the past few years. We kind of knew what the team was. We kind of knew who the players were. But to see all these guys come in and step up. Jalen's obviously ascendants and the rest of the guys that we had no expectations for, it's been pretty crazy to watch cough.

[Evan Valenti]

They're on a 50 win pace right now. They're on a 55.0win pace, losing Drew, Al, Cornette and Porzingis and Tatum, basically for the entire year. They have the best net rating in the Eastern Conference. They have the third best net rating in the entire NBA. This is some, this is some crazy stuff. And again, you know, some of this that you see with, you know, the, the, the Luca Garza stuff, you know, I look at that and say, okay, how much of this is the guys that they're playing? Like the teams they're playing right now, they're not playing the juggernauts of the world currently. They're playing Sacramento and Utah. It's like, okay, it's, it's not the best. However, I didn't think Garza was playable after the first couple weeks of the season. I was so out, completely out. Couldn't get him off the floor. Nothing good happens that when he's on the floor. I, I can't stand watching this guy now. Is he like the best screener on the team? He's legitimately deing guys. Like when he had a, he had one in the corner against the, the Kings the other night where he got Hauser a wide open three just by like literally getting as wide as humanly possible. He gives you all the hustle plays you'd possibly need Three pointer starting to drop a little bit, and things are coming around. Did you guys know that Anthony Simons, for the first time in his career, is a positive on court player? First time it's happened ever in his career.

[Adam Kaufman]

I mean, look at where he played.

[Evan Valenti]

Magic. What is this?

[Brian Barrett]

Yeah, I. The Garza thing is remarkable. To your point about the screening, he's averaging five screen assists per game over the past six games, which during that stretch is number one in the NBA. Number one in the entire NBA. He is an offensive rebounding machine right now, where he's been one of the best offensive rebounders since he's been put back into the rotation here. I mean, these Numbers, the last six games, he's averaging 3.8 per game, which four players are north of that in the season. That's 6.3 offensive rebounds per 36. Two players in the entire league are over that this season. Clint Capella and Stephen Adams. Okay.

[Evan Valenti]

I was gonna both play for Houston.

[Brian Barrett]

Like, I ha. Yeah. I have to give Missoula a ton of credit for just finding ways to get this thing to work. The Simons thing, it's always kind of been a weird fit to me, but I mean, obviously there's been more positive minutes here. I feel like there's a weird fit between him and Missoula, and he's trying to figure out this role. And I think it can be difficult to say, like, hey, just be Jamal Crawford, right? Just be Lou Williams. But he's been a starter for the majority of his career, so I think that adjustment has been sort of difficult for him to make. But overall, like, if you're thinking about what's why this team is where it's at, I think there is a bunch of sickos on this team, right? Where Jalen is incredibly competitive. I mean, the fact that he's upset about not winning the Eastern Conference Player of the Month, I mean, he has a really good case. But the fact that you'd be upset about that. Pritchard, this is a guy that a couple of years ago, remember, wanted to get traded just because he wanted to play so badly. Right. He was that competitive that he just wanted more minutes. And we know about Missoula. So I. And then you watch a guy like Ugo when he gets out there. I know Missoula's pissed with him the other night because he didn't dunk the ball, but you see Ugo when he's out there. Like, the reason I referenced that defensive number is just like, you can actually feel the impact. And I know it's only like 430 minutes or so, but he's all over the place. Like we're gonna start seeing guys react like star players, like, oh geez, this guy's back on the court again. Like remember back in the day where LeBron got upset in the finals when Kwai came back to the court, like he was upset they'd come. I'm not saying he's that level of defender, but he's annoying. He's just annoying to play again. So I think that's what it is. I think there's like this just competitive culture, this championship level culture with this team where I liken to it back in the day and obviously they haven't had the success that this organization did, but it's kind of like the spurs in a way where it's like, oh yeah, they picked that guy. It's gonna work, right? Oh, Gary Neal, he's good. Wait, they, they just picked up Danny Green, who wasn't playing for the Cavs. And it was best known at that point for doing like dances on the sideline. Now he's going to become one of the best three and D guys in the league. Who's this Thiago Splitter guy? He's like one of the best rim protectors in the league. And I feel like the Celtics do a really good job obviously with player development going back to the Cornets, the Housers of the world now, guys like Keita, but they do a really good job of just finding roles for certain players.

[Adam Kaufman]

So I don't want to spend much time on this because I feel like we've actually, as a show, done a really good job talking about this of late. So it would just be kind of beating the dead horse and standing on our soapbox and all of that. And in fairness, the odds have improved if you want to delve into sports books here. But what Joe Missoula has done with this group ev recited all of the, this in the east and this in the NBA and all of the, you know, you, you're both sitting here hammering what, what this roster looks like. And obviously we all celebrate the, the need to add and build and trust and, and believe that this team has the ability to do more than even it is doing so far when it comes to an actual playoff run. Especially if. And it is still an if, not a when that Jason Tatum comes back independent of how again, I personally feel about it. But you know, I'm still a little perplexed honestly by the odds. I won't name this sports book because they don't pay us. But the odds are pretty similar book to book. Anyway, I'm looking here. J.B. bickerstaff with the Pistons. Is your odds on favorite right now? Not quite midway through the year. Let's call it about a third of the way through the season. A little more than that at plus 170. And I get it. I think the Pistons have probably played a little over their heads. You know, after what they did second half of last year and carrying it on into this year. I I'm not saying Joe Missoula should be the favorite necessarily. I understand that Mitch Johnson of the spurs at plus 320. Given the injuries in the lost time that Wemby wasn't available and yet to still have them where they are again, I won't quibble with that. I think I'd be a homer if I did. Mark Dagnall of the Thunder, defending champion at +750, third on the board. That one doesn't really make a whole lot of sense to me. I know this team is on an historic pace. They've been incredible and they did a lot of that without their second best player, Jaylen Williams. But I think to a man, if you asked most people going into the year, hey, the Thunder, you know, they going to be in the vicinity sitting at top the Western Conference and you know, fighting to represent the west once again and win a championship, I think most everybody would have said yes. So to a certain degree, I think Dag Nal, not that he doesn't deserve credit, but I think they're doing what they're supposed to be doing. And to me that doesn't get rewarded by coach of the year. Then you have Missoula at 9 to 1. Now I feel like the last time we talked about this, Missoula was like seventh or eighth on the board. So now he's top four. So again there has been movement, there has been recognition. It's not like the world is sleeping on Joe. But I'm still not sure Barrett Joe is getting quite enough credit for truly maximizing this roster to the point where as Ev said right now that's a 50 win pace. And even if you were like me and you thought going into the year, all right, the east is pretty weak. I think the Celtics are a top four seed. I think they're a 45, 48 win team. Like not a lot of people, if anyone were talking 50 plus. And I think the man needs his due.

[Brian Barrett]

Yeah, I look at those odds too. I brought them up as you were giving your take on this. So for me, like, the diagonal thing, I understand why he's still in front of Missoula. Just because until that, like, spurs thing, they were on that historic pace to, like, break the warriors record, right. And I wonder if part of the calculation there is Mitch Johnson being at plus 320 and Bickerstaff being at plus 170. I think they're afraid of, like, all right, well, what if there's a Wemby injury, which we've already seen it happen, and the spurs are actually better when Wemby went down somehow? Not that they're a better team without him, but what if the spurs, like, somehow drop out of the top four? As unlikely as that is, do we want to have a lot of opportunity for betters to say, hey, we just got him at plus 1,000, right? So I think maybe that's part of the calculation. But with Missoula, I think just because you have somebody up there like Bickerstaff at plus 170, like, if they get the one seed, I think it's got to be him to win the coach of the year, right? I know that was a playoff team previously, but it's like, Cade Cunningham's an unbelievable player, right? Should probably be in the MVP conversation and Jalen Duran has taken a step forward. But it's not exactly like, when you look at that team, they're not super talented offensively, Right. And this isn't for me taking anything away from Missoula, but I would have a really difficult time not giving it to Bickerstaff if they end up with the best record in the Eastern Conference. Especially considering what we all thought about, hey, this is a two team conference entering the season, right? Not us. But most people thought, hey, those are the two teams competing for the top spot, Cleveland and the Knicks. And Cleveland, they're playing better as of late, but obviously have underachieved what people expected. So for me, like, if I was voting right now and I don't have a vote to begin with, I would give it to bigger staff and probably number two on that list would be, maybe I'd throw Missoula at number two. But I think it'd be difficult at this point not to have Mitch Johnson up there, considering the steps forward that they've taken as an organization where they're like a legit title threat right now. Maybe they're clearly not the favorite. But yeah, if they play Oklahoma City, like, that's a difficult matchup for them because those guards for San Antonio are so athletic.

[Adam Kaufman]

Yeah. 30 again, no doubt about it. Yeah, they're.

[Evan Valenti]

That spurs team's super young and way out of schedule, so it's like they're. They're playing with kind of like house.

[Adam Kaufman]

To the roster, man.

[Evan Valenti]

Well, yeah, look, that post the other day was awesome against the, The Pacers where he dunked on a guy that was. That was fantastic work by, By Luke Cornett. I. It's just like for Missoula, you know, again, I kept. During the summertime, my biggest thing was like, I need to see something different from Missoula. And I've. I. He has checked every single box. They have completely transformed how they play. And this, this rebounding thing where they're just. Despite the fact that they're much like much smaller and definitely a much different team from a rebounding perspective, they're still finding ways to, To, To. To change those margins in their, in their favor. And this is a credit to the. And it's not just Missoula either. Like, one of the things that I get really irritated about currently. Kaufman, I don't know if you feel this way is I feel like we give credit to like, Joe Missoula or Brad Stevens and not like the whole staff. It's not just like Joe and it's not just Brad. Like.

[Adam Kaufman]

Well, I want you to continue with your point. I just, I want to interrupt just, Just to say this. I feel like a couple years back, we were oftentimes referencing Sam Cassel. I know he's still there. We were talking, you know, not probably as much about, like, Will Hardy or somebody like that, but we were certainly talking about Damon Stoudemire, former player and, and veteran presence on the bench and that type of thing. Obviously Jeff Van Gundy. We're, you know, and, and all of the experience that he brought. I, I think the reason that we don't talk as much now about the whole staff, the other coaches, is because I'm not sure a lot of fans can name the other members on the staff meal.

[Evan Valenti]

Jefferson, obviously, getting. Still hanging out. I would love that for, For Jason Tatum, his buddy, staying on the staff. But, like, I just. I think it's sort of disingenuous. I mean, I'm. And not really. I, I gotta find a better word for this. But I just think it's. We're not giving everybody that deserves credit enough credit like the. Whatever Boston's doing between their front office and their scouting staff. Like I texted you earlier today, Amari Williams had 30 points and 14 rebounds and three steals in his latest G league game, right. And he had a triple double. I think the game before that he won the second round. Hugo Gonzalez. I had Matt Powers on this show earlier in the summer to talk about the Celtics draft. And he was like, honestly, I don't see it with Ugo at all. Like, he's just kind of chaotic out there. Well, whoever the hell is scouting him obviously saw something that was very translatable to the NBA, pulled the trigger on that. He's been. Is he still the plus minus leader in rookies this year? Because I know he was at one point this year the number one.

[Adam Kaufman]

I mean he was as recently as like a week ago, if he isn't.

[Evan Valenti]

Still already to get that. And again, I know plus minus is a team stat, whatever, blah, blah, blah. I get that, but it doesn't. It also highlights like he is making a serious impact on the floor when he plays. Like, I think number two is like BJ Edgecomb, who's having a spectacular season for the 76ers. So it's not like it's. It's just, you know, he's. He's doing it and everybody else is like, it's not like that. He's legitimately impacting games when he comes on the floor. So it's again, to me it's like I don't know who's. It's just. I gotta give everybody credit because there's. Because this entire thing takes. In order for the Boston Celtics to be where they are, to have a 50 win pace, everybody has to be moving in the same direction. And if ever. If there's nothing constant like the. The communication between everybody top to bottom is not in the same direction, this doesn't work as well. And I think if you look at everything, there are so many bad franchises in the league. They just got done playing Sacramento. Who has been outside of the light the beam year, an absolute dogmat for. For a doormat for everybody in the league. Boston's not that way. And I know the east sucks.

[Brian Barrett]

They're.

[Evan Valenti]

It's an awful conference, but everybody deserves a little bit of credit for where Boston is right now. Comp. And I can't believe the amount of hits they like. Josh Minot hasn't played in how long and he was like the. Everybody's darling at the beginning of the season. Every button they push is like unbelievable right now.

[Brian Barrett]

Minot mania appears to be dead unfortunately, but who knows?

[Adam Kaufman]

We thought, we thought we get resurrected. Yeah.

[Brian Barrett]

We thought Garza was never gonna play again. I will say this though, about Just specifically with Brad Stevens and the rest of the front office that deserves credit for this. Brad clearly has a type, right? How many first round picks has he made? Two. Right? Only two because they traded out of the first round pick when they selected Jordan Walsh and they picked up extra second round picks. But a couple of things that Brad deserves credit for is clearly with two of those picks and I get Walsh is technically a second round pick. He was targeting long, lanky, athletic wings. In the case of both Jordan Walsh and Ugo, Gonzalez and Shire made a little bit different. More of a skilled offensive player. Although the shot has never been what it was advertised. Coming out of college, like he's, he's not as good of a shooter as everybody thought he may be and obviously he's significantly older. Right. He was like the opposite of Walsh and Ugo were, that were super young guys, especially in the case of Hugo Gonzalez coming over from Europe. But those picks could be massive going forward because everyone likes to praise Adam Silver for what he's done with the league, which I don't really understand why. I mean, the new CBA is an absolute joke. I mean, his All Star game formats have been an absolute joy. I don't know what he does, but.

[Adam Kaufman]

The play in tournament.

[Brian Barrett]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Talks about a league that he wants to open up in Europe or whatever the hell that is.

[Adam Kaufman]

I don't know.

[Brian Barrett]

I don't know why everybody praises the guy so much, but because that new CBA is in, in these restrictions, it's really important to hit on some of these young picks. Like the Celtics didn't have a lot of them and it looks like that both Walsh and Ugo, they're going to be contributors for the foreseeable future for this team, which is huge considering the contractual obligations you have to your three best players. And Jason Tatum when he eventually comes back. Jalen Brown. And Derek White still is a pretty. I mean, Derek White is a fine contract for what he does as a player, but those are expensive contracts and you can only have so many of those. So when you can get some of these guys like with cheaper contracts, it's almost like the NFL rookie contract for the quarterback that everybody used to discuss. Like now you have to hit on some of these picks. I mean, look at what OKC has done. So hopefully those guys can continue to contribute the way that they have, because that's been. I, I feel like Jalen's obviously been the most important player on the team. He's been one of the better players in the NBA. He's averaging north of 29 points per game. He's been the best, one of the best mid range shooters in the league. But I think maybe the biggest development has been Hugo Gonzalez and Jordan Walsh being ready to contribute right now. Because I don't know how you guys felt prior to the season. I had almost like written Walsh off. I had almost thought Walsh was done. Like I, I was like, yeah, I don't, I don't know if it's ever going to click here.

[Adam Kaufman]

Yeah, I mean I was on that same page. Ev. You know, I mean honestly if, if ever there were evidence of that, it's that we just didn't talk a lot about the guy. It was kind of out of sight, out of mind to a certain degree. Like I, I did not view we went into the year and it was what's the rotation look like? And we're sitting there and we're naming guys and Walsh was not a part of it. Not in any consistent way where everybody is healthy and you know, forget that like now the guy's a starter and a meaningful starter and an impactful starter and a late game guy that is out there to close out wins. I mean, yeah, I, I didn't see it coming and it, it does speak to. Obviously we've had these conversations in the past relating to different guys. Right. Like did, did niece Smith deserved more of a look than he ultimately he got. You could quibble with that because he did get a look. He didn't deliver. They stayed true to Peyton Pritchard could have easily, you know, moved him because the minutes weren't there at the time. But they stuck with it and obviously it has worked out for everybody involved. You know, could they have given a better look to, to Max Strus, you know and guys along those. Absolutely. So I mean I will credit Brad, Joe, everybody. I mean like all, all the, the nameless faces, right that, that ultimately said no, we got, we, we got to keep persevering here and give this guy a look because it, it did to your point and I'll kind of put Shireman in the same conversation look like it just didn't mean Jordan Walsh was going to be a, a bad NBA player. But it just didn't seem like it was going to be a fit he year. And that is one of those things. And I've made this comparison before. I'm not the only one. You've probably talked about it on, on the off the pike program as well there for the ringer. The, the fact that you know, going back to we can think back to Tatum's rookie year when he and obviously Jalen Brown in year two at the time for him got incredible opportunity, especially in the postseason in a deep playoff run that by plan they never should or would have received. But Kyrie got hurt, Hayward got hurt. It just opened things up and these guys delivered. It's where you could look at a season like this. And we said it going in. This is not revisionist history. This season had the opportunity to at least have some elements of blessing in disguise. If it turned out that some of these younger guys that were not playing the last couple of years in any considerable way because you had a loaded veteran roster, they could make their mark and show that, hey, we can be part of the next iteration of a Celtics championship team. And Walsh, maybe Minot, I don't know about Garza, but Ugo, you know, like they, they are showing that there are pieces here that deserve to stay and inexpensive pieces, which is really the most important thing here in today's day and age, obviously with the salary cap and trying to avoid aprons and all of that. I'll let you respond to that quickly and then we'll take a quick break.

[Brian Barrett]

Well, I was just gonna say real quick on that. Like when we're talking about the financial stuff with these young guys, you know, who may have the best contract in the NBA from a team perspective, Peyton Richard. I, this is insane. I just, I brought it up just so I could remember because I remember it was a great deal and they, they got it done before. He was the sixth man of the year. He's 7.2 against the Cat this year, 7.7 the following year, 8.3. You have him signed through his 30 year old season. He's easily right now with Tatum out, he's your third best player. Like think about guys that are on max contracts right now and Peyton Pritchard, not to say he deserves a max contract, but think about how many bad contracts are given out around the league this guy doesn't even make. And I know it sounds crazy to say this like, because in normal life there's a lot of money, but in NBA terms he never makes 10 million in this contract, which is just wild to think about. So, so glad they got that deal done because if they waited, right, if they waited, they would have been paying a whole lot of money to Payton Pritchard.

[Adam Kaufman]

Well, I mean, to that point. And, and this is just. Timing's everything. And these, it's apples to oranges a little bit because we're talking about Two totally different positions and needs. But what's Luke Cornett making? What did he sign 4 for, like 45 or something like that.

[Brian Barrett]

Right. And I would even say that's a good deal. The, the, the correct deal that Spurs.

[Adam Kaufman]

But, but they have all this money. Agreed. But it's like, who would you rather have at. At their contract? I mean, it's not even close.

[Brian Barrett]

Yeah.

[Adam Kaufman]

Now, obviously, a team like the Celtics, you'd like to have both, but that's a whole other thing. All right, quick break. And Jaylen Brown has come up a number of times on this program. I want to dive into some recent Jaylen Brown stuff off the court as it relates to all of this All Star voting and Eastern Conference player of the month and on and on and on because we know what a. How godlike he has been on the floor. We spent the entire last episode talking about that. Let's talk about some of the other stuff on the other side.

[Evan Valenti]

Two things cop. You want to just run the ad now?

[Adam Kaufman]

You want to just do it now? Yeah, sure.

[Evan Valenti]

Other thing is just to back up just on that Evan Turner got paid 17 and a half million dollars from the Port Trailblazers in 2016. Right.

[Brian Barrett]

That was the, that was another genius move. No cap smoothing.

[Adam Kaufman]

He'd be making 30 right now.

[Evan Valenti]

Unbelievable.

[Adam Kaufman]

All right, here we go.

[Brian Barrett]

Okay.

[Adam Kaufman]

This episode is brought to you by Prize Picks. It's the holiday season. Best time of the year for sports, bowl games, basketball matchups, playoff pushes. It's all happening at once. Certainly the NFL postseason right around the corner as well. And when you and I are here, we're making decisions every single day. It was what gifts to buy around Christmas and Hanukkah. And now it's what plans do we want to make early in the new year? What to eat, Whether to hop on the treadmill and shed some of what you've been eating for the last couple of weeks. There's one place that feels good to be right, Ev, and that's Prize Picks.

[Evan Valenti]

Yeah, Prize Picks is the best way to get real money sports action. Join over 10 million users and sign up today. And we talk about Flexplay all the time on this show because Flexplay is the coolest thing I think anybody offers out there. It's the idea that if you're not totally right, you can still get your money back. And for someone who is not right all the time, this guy, it's a huge money saving opportunity for me and Kaufman. Week 18 of the NFL is usually a little tough because some teams are playing for things. Some, some teams aren't. So my advice to you out there as you're building your prize picks lineups, find teams that have legitimate stakes to play for or you find teams that have nothing to play for. You take all the less thans. Right? But with that in mind, we're going to start with Sam Darnold. Sam Darnold against the 49ers. He's the first leg of my lineup. I'm going less than 241 and a half passing yards. I just, I, I, I've watched a lot of Seattle this year. C. I'm not the Sam Donald. Experience is frustrating. I'll leave it at that. Next one. Mark Andrews, Baltimore Ravens taking on the Pittsburgh Steelers. That is a huge game. I'm going more than 31 and a half receiving yards for the tight end for the Ravens. One of Lamar Jackson's favorite weapons in Lamar is playing this week. The last leg. Buddy. Just because I wanted to happen. Just because I love history. Miles Garrett more than 0.75 sacks.

[Brian Barrett]

Okay.

[Evan Valenti]

He's one of the best defensive ends in the history of football. I really hope he gets this. I know it's an 18 games or 17 game season, 18 weeks a little bit different, but I still want him to get it. Flex play gives me 2 and 2 and a quarter X if I hit 3 or 1 X my money back if I hit 2 out of 3, which is great. And Kaufman prize picks now offers early payouts so that let's say you're doing well. Guess what? You hit everything super early. Well, you can cash out right then and there. Take your winnings home with you before the game even ends.

[Adam Kaufman]

Just that simple, folks. Download the prize picks app today. Use code CLNS. You get $50 in lineups after you play your first for only $5 again. Download the app. Do it right now. Well, you can wait till after the show if you want, but do it even while you're listening to us. That would be just fine. The promo code is CLNS. You get $50 in lineups after playing your first for only five bucks. Prize picks. It's good to be right?

[Evan Valenti]

Great.

[Adam Kaufman]

So ev, you are frozen. But the good news is. Yeah, I can tell you when it happened. And it happened right before we started doing the ad.

[Evan Valenti]

Yeah, it's probably because I I switched over to my.

[Adam Kaufman]

Reads.

[Evan Valenti]

That's all right. They can use the local feed and and figure it out.

[Adam Kaufman]

Done this before.

[Evan Valenti]

My my feed. It's not, it's not doing it. I'll just alert the team.

[Adam Kaufman]

Yeah, Sounds good. Well, at least they know where to look for it, too. It's an easy place to pinpoint. All right, very good. Let's jump back in. All right. Back here on Celtic Speed, of course, Barrett Valenti, Kaufman hanging out here with you. Evan, I'm. I'm directing this specifically to you because while I would like to tell myself that Barrett never misses a show and is a regular listener and subscriber, I hope you are obviously Barrett. Ev, I know that there is never a moment of this show that you miss. How if somebody said to you. If Barrett said to you, hey, Ev.

[Brian Barrett]

What.

[Adam Kaufman]

What's Kaufman think of Jaylen Brown? How would you answer that question?

[Evan Valenti]

I think it's a complicated relationship. I think you understand that he's awesome. But, you know, there have been moments in the past where you've been rightfully frustrated, I think, but I would say overwhelmingly pretty positive.

[Adam Kaufman]

Yeah, I mean, I like to think overwhelmingly pretty positive. But again, I. It's. I. I defer to those that hear me versus me trying to rewrite history or anything like that. I asked the question because if people were to, you know, jump into last week's show, for instance, where we were heavy on Jalen Brown with our guy Bobby Manning, a lot of the YouTube commenters really felt like I was just crapping all over the guy, really taking him to task. Not a JB fan over here. I couldn't personally disagree more. Sadly. However, this next little thing is going to fuel the fire of those people that were around last week, and we'll. We'll just, you know, not. Not help me a little bit.

[Brian Barrett]

So.

[Adam Kaufman]

If Jalen Brown is frustrated about where he sits in the fan vote for the all star game in the Eastern Conference, that is deserved. It's a joke that Boston fans, you out there are not properly representing in this getting this guy. I mean it. There's no universe in which Jalen Brown should not be starting the all star game in the east as far as I am concerned.

[Brian Barrett]

Well, it doesn't even matter. Like.

[Adam Kaufman]

It doesn't. It doesn't matter, which is why I'm not harping on that part. The Eastern Conference player in the month thing is what kind of drew my ire. He 1000% should have won that award over Jalen Brunson. And Taylor Snow had a tweet d naturally, good team employee tagging Jalen Brown comparing those two guys in the month of December. Brown and I'll just round to make it easy. About 32 points per game vs 316 1/2 rebounds vs 3. Brunson took the assist 7 to 5 and a half. Brown, superior in steals, shot 54 vs 4743 from 3 vs 41. His net rating 7 vs 2. In their lone matchup, a win by the Celtics, Brown outscored Brunson 4215. As we know, Boston lost very few games last month. I am not quibbling for one second with Jaylen Brown's frustration about not winning that award because obviously it's important to him. That's fine. But the NBA put out the tweet the KIA NBA Players of the Month for December in the West SGA and the East. Jaylen Brunson and Brown quote tweeted it with an smh Shaking my head now I'm not gonna lie and maybe it says more about me. I I I don't know. I saw that tweet and I had a reaction to it just in like it it I I like it it I had a physical reaction to it. I was like I don't know. I I know that Jalen is still and we've talked about this like butthurt over getting booed on draft night and he's certainly sensitive about the number of teams times that the team has has, you know, if not tried to trade him at least his name is circulated in reports that he has been in trade rumors over the years for, for Kawhi, for ad, for Durant, for this guy, that guy and another. I'm not saying that stuff shouldn't frustrate you, but when you're going out and having as dominant a season as you are and he is and to be, you know, the leader of this team and the face of this team and this team is overachieving and like I mean he's in as far as I'm concerned, like he's not going to win MVP or anything, but he's absolutely in the discussion for first team all NBA. Like he has been excellent that to to not be recognized for Eastern Conference player of the month and feel the need to tweet about it feels a little like can't you just be frustrated about that one behind closed doors? Like does the world need to be aware that you're sensitive about being, you know, like not not, hey, you were the best player of this particular month. I mean I'm rambling a little bit here, but that was how I felt when I I saw this. I was like like how important is the need for recognition that important to where you need Eastern Conference player of the month or if you don't get it, you need to be, you know, visibly frustrated that you didn't get it. Especially while your head coach gets Eastern Conference Player of the Month and openly says he could not begin to care less. I don't know. How do you feel about a Barrett?

[Brian Barrett]

Well, first of all, like, I know they have this every month, but I've never paid attention to it until Jalen tweeted about it. I'm like, oh. So I did think it was a little weird that he tweeted the SMH when Jalen Brunson won the Player of the Month, even if he really. I. I don't know how many players really want this award, but apparently it really meant a lot to Jalen. So, like, I kind of understand the frustration that he has with it. I did think it was bizarre that he tweeted about it, but the only thing I could rationally think about when Jaylen put that out there is he kind of is a troll. Like, he doesn't really, like, maybe troll, for lack of a better term, he doesn't really care what people think about him anymore. He not. I don't know if he ever did, but he just says what's ever is on his mind. Like when that whole thing was going on with his hair, he's like going.

[Adam Kaufman]

On social media talking about telling he's gotta.

[Brian Barrett]

Does he have to go to Turkey? I think he said, or something like that. He talked about it like LeBron when he won the. The Larry Bird Trophy, right? He said, I never win. Bleep. When he won that, remember he was all surprised when he won that. I can't remember if that was that one or the Finals, but he said it after one of them point.

[Adam Kaufman]

Like, he's won Eastern Conference Finals mvp. He's won NBA Finals mvp. Like, he's won real awards. This thing is. Who cares?

[Brian Barrett]

Yeah. But I do think maybe that's just like part of who he is. He just like, is constantly going to have this chip on his shoulder and he just doesn't care. He's just like, it's not similar, but like, Durant doesn't care. What. Like he loves going back. He actually does care, but he loves going back at people on social media. Just like kind of what he does. I think Jalen just doesn't care what people think. He's just going to put out there whatever. Whatever is on his mind. Would. Did I think it was weird? Like, do I think, say, like, I bet if Tatum didn't win Eastern Conference Player of the Month and He had the best numbers. Like, Tatum probably wouldn't tweet that, right? I think this is just, like, Jaylen's personality, right? He's. He's the more, like, guy that likes to get into it with people. Like, you see it on the court, too. Like, he talks a lot more trash than Tatum does. I like that he does that. So I just think it's his personality, man. Like, I think he just likes being out there. I mean, he does all these videos all the time. I don't.

[Adam Kaufman]

He's a professional twitch streamer now.

[Brian Barrett]

Yeah, he's a streamer. So, like, I don't know. I think he likes doing it. I think he likes. Look. I think he likes being, like, part of the sort of the conversation.

[Evan Valenti]

Yeah, these guys are wired differently. Like, you got to remember they're always looking for whatever. I mean, Michael Jordan was, like, looking for any little slight he could possibly get to fuel him to kill somebody. I mean, what was it? Which coach didn't say hi to him?

[Brian Barrett]

George Carl.

[Evan Valenti]

George Carl. Yeah.

[Adam Kaufman]

Yeah.

[Evan Valenti]

That is true. I mean, I don't. I don't disagree with that.

[Adam Kaufman]

I don't disagree with that at all.

[Evan Valenti]

But, like, these guys are wired differently. I don't. I guess I'm just, like, kind of like, I don't really care. Like, Jalen can be upset. He can tweet what he wants. He's his own person. So I'm not really worried about that. I just look at it. It's like he's just wired differently than most people. And I think these guys are looking for any edge they possibly can to give them that extra spark to go out and really kill somebody. I mean, Jalen has been on a mission this entire season. There was a 30 point game streak, which he tied Larry Bird, the only two guys ever do that in the history of the Celtics, which is crazy. You have, you know, you go back to the last game against Sacramento, you watch that second half where he was just like, okay, whoever's in front of me is not stopping me. I'm gonna get to the rim every single time. It was right hand or left hand, didn't matter. He's been surgical this year. And to that point, Barrett, like, I almost don't care. Whatever motivation he needs, if he needs to be as weird as possible to keep playing like this, like, fine, because this is, as we said last week in our 40 minute, 40 minute conversation about how good Jalen Brown has been this year, the. The leap that he's taken from really good. I'm not even quite sure how to describe like Jalen Brown was an all star borderline all NBA player to now he's in the conversation for first team, all NBA, top five MVP candidate, Etc. Kaufman I, I texted or I DM'd our buddy Brandon Anderson about this.

[Adam Kaufman]

Nice.

[Evan Valenti]

And he's, he said he hasn't looked too much into the NBA stuff yet. He's still very football heavy, sure. But he did a little dive for me. He goes, there's some, there's some, there's some trends here with Jalen Brown that would make me potentially rethink where I had Jaylen Brown ranked in terms of the NBA. Like top players in the NBA. He said, an unbelievable season. And if this is what it takes to get this version of Jalen Brown, I'm all for it. He's been amazing.

[Brian Barrett]

You know what's interesting because I agree with you, he's wired totally different. You don't do these underwater workouts if you're not wired differently, right? You don't look the way that Jalen looks if you're not wired differently. Like, dude, this guy is built like he's a bodybuilder. Like he's absolutely massive. Like you have to be wired differently to get that big and be in that great of shape to begin with. But I thought it was interesting. I can't remember where this clip came from, so it's probably not good by me saying it considering we're now in the world of AI where it could be fake. But Jayla, Jalen was on some podcast and he was talking about Kawhi Leonard. Like that's what he wanted to be like in two way player playing on both sides, right? He was talking about guarding Maxi, right? He's like, I'm not just guarding big guys or way, I'm guarding the point guard on the other team, right? So I think that Jalen is sort of like there's certain groups of or certain players that really get pushed by the league. I mean some are obvious guys to get pushed by the league, but I think Jalen has that like that disrespect like feels still disrespected that maybe he's not pushed like other guys are. I mean remember he's got his own brand. And if you think about Kawhi Leonard and Kwai's obviously playing incredibly well right now. But when he was at his peak, that like three to four year period, I mean obviously his final year with the Raptors, but even before that when he was like without question and Jalen's not on this level. Defensively, he's a great defender. We all saw what he did to Luca in the playoffs, right. But Kawhi Leonard, what he was doing from a wing position was just like, that was ridiculous. I mean that was like Scotty Pippenish back in the day. But Kawhi Leonard, best two way guy in the league. But he was like never really friends with anybody, right? Like, he wasn't friends with the other guys, right. Like he, he wanted to go at LeBron. He didn't really want to be friends with LeBron. He wanted to go after him. And I'm wondering if like that sort of. And Jalen talked about that wear and tear. That's why he spends so much money on his body. Because he, he was referencing. As long as this wasn't AI. He was referencing like how many injuries Kawhi's had and how much of a toll that takes on his body playing that hard both ways. But I do wonder if that sort of how he views himself, right? Where it's like I'm sort of the guy that nobody. And not that Kwai wasn't getting credit, but like I'm kind of on the outside of this right from the guys that are being pushed around the league in terms of the brand and all that. So I don't know. I just found that interesting when he was talking about that's who he sort of looks at as a player and look very similar mid range game, right? That's where Jalen made his hay this year. He's got the most makes in the NBA between 15 and 19ft, 10 more than any other player. So I mean, that's what Kawhi was so great at back in his day when he was in his prime. He's great right now. Kawhi's had this incredible streak. Question is just how long is it going to last because of the injury history.

[Adam Kaufman]

What do you suppose? Both of you. But I'll start with you, Barrett. The next version of Jalen Brown looks like, you know, we've spent, we've spent years of talking about how, boy, the off season Brown worked on this. He came back with this. He's, you know, X, Y and Z. Each year he's a different guy, he's a better player. And that, by the way, is all a credit to him. His work ethic, all the things that are, you know, being discussed here on this show and in previous shows. And that's, you know, no, like he could have gotten fat and happy after he got that $300 million payday. Not the case. This guy is forever motivated, always has a chip on his shoulder, a boulder size chip on his shoulder, and I commend him for that. To that end though, he's going to be 30 in October, so he's still very much in his NBA prime years. This isn't 30 in the NFL where you're aging out. He's going to be an impactful player in this league if healthy for a good long while. Jason Tatum is going to return though, and this is not a, oh, can these guys coexist? We know they can coexist. I was banging the drum. They could coexist since long before they won that championship. But I am wondering now, this is the first time that we have seen Jaylen for a truly extended period of time. You know, what would life without Jason Tatum look like? And what kind of player is Jaylen Brown in that system? And you know, when, when they're coaching to his strengths as opposed to him being a 1B versus the 1A other guys around him. And, and again, it's, it's all looked great. He's having a career year when JT returns though, and I don't even necessarily mean this year, in next year, the year after that, you know, in the coming seasons. What does Jalen Brown take from this experience and how he's molded himself as a player that he keeps with him for this next version of Jalen Brown that does play alongside Jason Tatum?

[Brian Barrett]

Well, first part, just individually is the thing that I was worried about. He was obviously coming back from a knee procedure and so much of his game had been based off his athleticism because he's one of the best athletes in the league. But the two point shooting was elite before last year he had a two year stretcher. He's shooting the mid Ranger incredibly well and now he's doing it again. So to answer your first part of the question about what does it look like, I think that's what it is. I mean, I'm not comparing him to these type of players, but like Kevin Durant, part of the reason he's lasted as long as he has is because he's arguably the best mid range shooter of all time. And I'm not saying Jalen's on that trajectory, but you look at the numbers between 15 and 19ft, he's 71 of 131, 54.2%. The guy that is second and the guy that is third in attempts on those shots, Ingram's 49.2, DeRozan's 43.6. Jalen's 54.2%. So I think from just a pure basketball standpoint, he actually has more moves too now where he has the one where he's driving to his right and he dribbles between his legs backwards and gets back to his two point jumper. So I think that's the answer. The first part is he's going to be like only the best shooters or only the best players, I should say, can take those shots because they're not analytically friendly. You can only take those shots if you're Jaylen Brown, if you're Kawhi Leonard, Kevin Durant, those guys making playoff runs. That's the first part to the Tatum part. I wish I had a better answer because this is going to be fascinating because I think, like you guys believe and correct me if I'm wrong, that Tatum's coming back this year. Tatum, even if he had one of the quickest, like sort of, he had the most, the quickest documented surgery after an Achilles tear, right, where it's like less than 12 hours, right? He's still. And I'm not saying the Celtics would put him in any sort of jeopardy coming back. They're going to make sure that he's 110 and all that, and Tatum is going to want to make sure he's that. But he's still not going to be Jason Tatum just yet when he comes back. That may take another calendar year for him to get to that point. So he's sort of like this has now become Jalen's team. At the moment, Jalen's averaging almost 30 points per game. He's six in the and be in scoring for a team that you alluded to off the top here that has a chance to be the number two seed in the Eastern Conference. Right. And that's mainly because of what Jalen has done individually. Other guys have played a role. We went through the Missoula stuff. Jaylen has carried this team, right. From an offensive perspective. I mean, there's nights where Pritchard and White just don't have it right. When those guys both play well, they usually win. When they don't, they usually. It's usually more difficult and Jaylen has to sort of carry the load offensively. So I think it actually in a weird way makes it easier bringing back Tatum. Right. Because I think too, you can stagger minutes with Tatum now because like I what's the, like when he originally comes back, is it going to be what, 20 minutes, 25 minutes? I think you can actually bring Tatum off the bench like as. Like this super sub to. Because you want to conserve the minutes for the end of the game so you can have Derrick White and Peyton Pritchard on the floor with Tatum and have Jalen come back out in the SEC or whatever the case may be. But I think it should be easier for Tatum coming back because you can't just change the entire offense because Tatum's coming back at this point, considering what Jalen has done. So that's where I think it's more about now going into next year, it's a totally different question. But when Tatum comes back, I think it's more about him adjusting to this new group than it is about Jalen having to make any sort of adjustment. Because you wouldn't want him to change what he's doing right now.

[Evan Valenti]

Yeah, I think the big thing for me, if I had to pick like one thing, I want to see Jalen continue as we move forward here and the. The team continues to evolve. Jalen Brown's taking 7.4 free throws per game. His free throw rate at this particular moment is a career high. Let me just make sure I get this number right. That's. It's 34. So that stuff to me is how you easily go from like a 22 point per game score to like a 28 point per game score. Like, that's just easy points. So if I had to pick one thing, I want to see Jalen continue from this moment to the next version of what they look like. I want him to keep attacking the basket good to the free throw line. You actually, if you keep looking at it, Jalen's actually shooting less threes than he really ever has. And he's actually probably the best he's ever looked at shooting the three ball this year. I mean, he's. He's been legitimately. Some nights he's on fire and you can't even. It's just like he. He just takes anything he wants and it's almost like it's whatever. He's literally white hot right now. Obviously the assist numbers being a five per game at this moment is insane. I never thought at any point in my life that we would sit here, be talking about Jayla Brown averaging five assists per game. He had tunnel vision when he came out of Cal and for particularly good reasons. But the fact that he's kind of opened up his playmaking game a lot this year is huge. I'm not sure if that's sustainable when Tatum comes back, because Tatum is more of A primary initiator and creator. But the free throw rate stuff and get to the free throw line like that stuff, I think is, can be, can be stagnant throughout and I, if I had to pick one stat that I would love him to do, Kaufman, that would be it. Because when you attack the basket like that, you give your, your team so many different, you know, chances. A three points, two, everybody gets the rest to get back on defense, set your half court defense, like all those things are good and you put the other team involved, like all these things are great things. So if he can just continue to do that stuff, I mean he's, his, his mid range game is like better than SJ's right now, which is nuts. So like, yeah, that's, that's been steady for a while. The free throw stuff is what's new for me and I love, I love to see it personally.

[Adam Kaufman]

You're not going to get any disagreement for me. I mean, you guys know in listening to this show that I am, you know, not as into the three point barrage that is today's NBA. You know, I, I'm old man shaking fist at cloud when it comes to some of that stuff. So the fact that Jalen Brown and I say that, by the way, about the whole league, not about the Celtics specifically, even though they're one of the greatest offenders if you will, but Brown shooting at the three point rate that he is and doing so at, you know, with good success, I mean 36% at five and a half attempts per game, when he's still putting up roughly 22 shots like can please continue to live in the mid range. This is not unique to this year. This has been a strength of his for a long time. And I know the, you know, the math tells you or what have you, like threes over twos in terms of attempts, if he's gonna hit the twos at the rate that he is, keep taking him and of course stay aggressive, drive to the hoop, get the free throw tries, all of that. Yes, please. I mean that's, that's another thing. Like you talk about the. Did we ever think we'd see Jaylen Brown racking up five assists a game? Certainly in those early years in the NBA when he wasn't even getting to 2 on average. No, I mean this feels like a fever dream. But on top of that, you know, not a lot of people ever saw him flirting with 80 at the free throw line either. This was a guy that looked like he was going to hover around 70 his whole life. So he could again, credit to him continues to grow and develop, but just strategically, whether it's the way they're using him, whether it's the way he's insisting upon playing, whether it's a meeting of the minds, I have no idea. But I like it and I want him to continue. And I don't think there's any reason other than maybe those facilitating numbers that that has to change when Jason Tatum returns.

[Brian Barrett]

Yeah, I'm with you. I think most of the numbers should stay pretty close to where they are. Like if you come back next season, he's probably not going to average north of 29 points a game like he's doing this year. When Tatums comes back, I'm sure it'll dip a little bit, but yeah, I don't see a reason that he can't continue to be this efficient from the mid range because he's been, he's had multiple years where he shot it well and those are difficult shots that he's able to get go down. They put a lot of pressure on the defense. And what he does, he takes a lot of pressure off the rest of the team in terms of the shot attempts that he takes because he's the only one taking those type of shots. I mean, Pritchard does it, but he does it a little bit closer in. I mean, Pritchard's one of the best guys in the paint, non restricted area. Like he has this incredible ability to knock a defender back and be able to get to his mid range game when it comes to that. But Derek White's gonna bomb a ton of threes. We know. I mean he's taken north of 10 a game in the month of December at the third most three since the start of December. Even though his shooting numbers are not what they ordinarily are. But in terms of the facilitating and the playmaking, the assist numbers being up, I think a lot of that has to do. His handle's tighter this year than it's been in previous years. I know he'll still have these games once in a while where he turns the ball over a lot, but his handle is the best that it's ever been. I, I don't even think that's close. I mean, there was times in the, in the recent past where he just like dribbled the ball off his foot. You have a lot fewer of those. I'm not saying that like he, he can't once in a while have these turnover games. You're like, whoa, six, seven. But it's not like it was in the past where he was just losing the ball.

[Evan Valenti]

I just want to point out that he has the highest percentage of his career so far.

[Adam Kaufman]

What's up? I said, do you think Barrett hit us with a 6, 7 on purpose there or. No?

[Evan Valenti]

No, I don't. I'm not even acknowledging that. I just want to point out that Jalen. Yeah, Jalen's having his best true shooting percentage season so far. The lowest three point rate of his career so far and the highest free.

[Adam Kaufman]

Throw rate of his career.

[Brian Barrett]

And his threes are difficult. Like, yeah, he has to take those threes once in a while. Right. I mean, when you have two guys to the ball, like, if you have the big on you, sometimes you got to take the three because what's that going to create is offensive rebounding opportunities for the team. That's part of the reason, like Tatum takes a lot of those threes is because it creates opportunities to get offensive rebounds. So once in a while, he's gonna have to take threes even if it's not his best. And I would over 36 on the attempts that he takes. I'm totally fine with it.

[Adam Kaufman]

So to put a bow on this show, you know, with the Patriots, it's been a lot of like, the schedule. The schedule, the schedule for the last several months. Obviously around the NFL, that's been a thing.

[Brian Barrett]

People have been criticizing the Patriots schedule.

[Adam Kaufman]

Amazing, right? So if we're going to sit here and celebrate where the Celtics are in the Eastern Conference, we do at least have to acknowledge of late the schedule. Beat Miami at Toronto, back to back with Indiana. You lose, you stumble in Portland, barely. You come back, you beat the Jazz, you. You couldn't get swept by the Jazz. It just couldn't happen. You kick off the new year winning in Sacramento. You finish off this trip tonight against a miserable Clippers team that I am still hoping and praying it's a bad team. I don't care if they.

[Brian Barrett]

I don't think so. I. I actually think they're good.

[Adam Kaufman]

Well, all right, we'll find out. I'll.

[Evan Valenti]

I'll.

[Adam Kaufman]

I've been wrong.

[Evan Valenti]

The. The Thunder have their pick. They better be good.

[Brian Barrett]

I know. That is crazy.

[Evan Valenti]

Well, there's.

[Adam Kaufman]

There is that. But again, you got the Bulls. Then we'll see what the Nuggets look like. The Raptors again, then obviously San Antonio, and who knows by then, maybe Wemby's out of the lineup for a game. Then you have the Pacers, the Heat, the Hawks, who are miserable. Then it's the Pistons like, the. The Celtics are in a very favorable stretch at the moment. And we said going in to all of these games, like, good. You know, you've. You've had some impressive wins earlier, obviously, but now this is like, make your hay. This is where you climb. This is where you could get to number two in the East. And they're only a game and a half back of that right now, 21 and 12 compared to the Knicks at 23 and 11. So you're winning at a roughly 64, 65 clip so far, playing, you know, well at home, well on the road. Well, overall, all the advanced metrics and stuff that Evan, you know, cited earlier before. So what now, Barrett, are you looking for in the short term, like, next couple of weeks? What are you looking for here from this group as they, you know, continue to evaluate what we all believe they need anyway, which is obviously another big man, but they got until early March to deal with that.

[Brian Barrett]

Well, every night I'm going to be watching Ugo. That's one thing. Just selfishly, I love watching Ugo to see how long Garza can continue to play the way that he's playing, because they've been awesome with him on the floor, as I alluded to over these last six games. And then I'm really interested in the Simons thing because Simons is the piece that is the most likely to get moved. You could actually move that salary and get. You could save money from that perspective and save money going forward if you're looking at an apron situation. Right. So I think that's the one guy that, like, I know we're talking about adding to this team. I think the most likely scenario would be moving Simons as much as, like, at this point, like, people are looking at the standing saying the Celtics had an opportunity to win a championship. Like, yeah, maybe they'll add somebody if they move Simons. Right. They'll have to bring somebody back in that particular equation. But I don't think there's going to be any big move for the Celtics this year at the deadline. If anything, I think they revisit that next off season when they have, at that particular point, a Tatum that's already come back and he's gotten healthier. And then they figure out where they go from here, because I. I don't really expect fireworks for this team. Not that the NBA training deadline is crazy most of the time. Occasionally we'll have, like, I feel like we get big moves sometimes before the deadline. Right. Like a couple of weeks before or something prior to the season. Not that a lot of teams make. And it's look in the CBA thing too. It's really difficult to make trades in the league now. It's just the way that the CBA is written, it's difficult to do. So I don't see them doing anything dramatic at the, at the deadline. So I would say my two things would be to see what Garza continues to look like as the backup big because I mean lately he's been better than Kada.

[Adam Kaufman]

Well, so ev let me I wanted to wrap the show but since we're kind of on this we, we can do a couple minutes on this. Maybe this is when you weren't feeling well and so you sat this conversation out on our, you know, text thread that we've got with our buddy Landman who joins us from time to time. But he brought up he was quibbling with his belief and granted he's not a a loyal listener of this show as he should be because we've touched on this stuff from time to time. But not a deep dive and maybe we do that next time out. But his feeling that nationally nobody is talking about what the Celtics absolutely need to do and that is at a big for short and long term needs, but specifically for right now. And his point is this just to go back through these texts we were talking about, as we have on this show before, Zubots, Claxton, some of these other guys that could theoretically be moved obviously. But he says he finds it weird that few people are talking about the fact the Celtics have a 27 million dollar expiring salary, no possibility of cap space, in dire need of a center both short and long term as I talked about. And unless there just aren't rumors out there which would not be atypical to the Brad Stevens regime. It just seems like people are only talking about sort of the deal away Anthony Simon, small scale upgrades versus you know, needing to make that impactful move. Barrett. Now as I told him in our text thread, I don't feel like this is under talked about at least here on this show. Maybe nationally I can't speak to that. I don't listen to everything. But I'm going to be disappointed if the trade deadline rolls around and the Celtics haven't addressed, you know, their, their need for a legitimate big I'm not talking about adding a and I'm not even going to bother. I don't know, like Aldama from Memphis, like I, I want an actual big who, who makes an actual salary, you know, $2025 million. If you're parting with Simons, which I'm okay with. You know, give me something that's actually going to help this team. Not a rental. I don't want like Vucevich, like, give me someone who's going to help this team this year, next year, maybe the year after that. That fits into the window of sitting, you know, in that 27 to 30 year old range.

[Evan Valenti]

This sounds more like a question for Bill Chisholm, though. How, How?

[Brian Barrett]

But I mean, who's, who's even that player, right?

[Evan Valenti]

That's the other part.

[Adam Kaufman]

Zubots.

[Brian Barrett]

Yeah, I mean, Zubak, it's, it's going to be interesting for them because as Valenti pointed out, like, what's the point of them trading them? Like, if they're trading them, they're going to want a decent amount in return. Are the Celtics willing to trade away draft picks to bring in Zubock? Like, is that changing and altering this team? Like, are you winning a chance? And by the way, the Clippers have suddenly been playing better without.

[Adam Kaufman]

Yeah, that's another compensation, though. I'd give up a first round pick. Really, I would. Not, not, not for just anybody. But a guy like that. Yeah, Yeah.

[Brian Barrett]

I mean, he's a good player. I don't know if he completely changes the landscape of the Celtics and it like clacks. Claxton's a fine player, but like offensively very limited, very challenged. So can't shoot free throws. And it's another thing that would hurt you. I mean, Zubak doesn't have, that doesn't have the same degree of issues that Claxton has. Like, Zubak's a really good defensive player. He's a fairly good screener. I just, I don't know if I want to commit to Claxton or Zubak long term when I still can address some of these issues later on down the road. Like, so what's the. So then it's just Keda comes off the bench and Zubox, I guess, is the starter. Like, I, Yeah, I mean, I guess.

[Adam Kaufman]

Maybe the occasional double Big.

[Brian Barrett]

Yeah, I mean, maybe. But I, I just, I wouldn't be.

[Adam Kaufman]

You know, like, you know, we just.

[Brian Barrett]

Saw with the, with the Ugo pick. I wouldn't be doing it.

[Adam Kaufman]

Yeah, it's just, you know this as well as anybody. Like, you're, you're into the weeds when it comes to the numbers and I don't, I don't have the latest numbers in front of me. But to ballpark it, basically Celtics against teams that Offensive rebound at an elite level. The, the tweet that I saw recently, they were something like 3 and 10 or whatever the number was. They, they're terrible. They're absolutely awful against teams that are great offensive rebounding teams. And we know the Celtics are not a good defensive reben rebounding team. So those things obviously go hand in hand. But my point is like, that is your, your clear, overwhelming weakness that you have to try and find a way to address. And you're not going to do that by, you know, gang rebounding. Like, you need, you need size. You need a legit big that can come in and be not, not a Garza. Like, you need a guy that actually can come in and, and play reliable minutes for you.

[Brian Barrett]

Yeah. The one thing I'll say though is when you're talking about like rebounding, you are going to get maybe the best rebounder in the league that's not a center back at some point. Any, like, Tatum's that good at that. And then like, if you look at Claxton, the nets are actually 3.2 percentage points worse rebounding defensively with them on the floor, and then offensively they're 2.5 percentage points worse. Zubak, obviously the Clippers are a better rebounding team with him, but I, I don't know. Like, I would just rather keep my options open and stay more flexible than adding one of those two guys. Like, I understand wanting to add at the trading deadline, but those aren't the type of guys that I'm like, super excited to add.

[Adam Kaufman]

Yeah, it's just the. And I'm not even removing like, it's not even about those two guys specifically. I know those are the names that I keep throwing out, so that's where we're fixating. But I think the overarching point is again, you are losing this expiring contract at the end of the year. You have to use it theoretically and get something meaningful back because you don't have any cap space. You have no ability to add to this team other than through trade. And that is a sizable trade piece. And I'm not saying anything that Mike Zarin, Brad Stevens, all the basketball ops is unaware of. I'm sure they've been working the phones in the shadows and, and trying to solve this issue as well. I would. I'm just really hoping that they are able to address it versus, you know, the whole like, injury acquisition. You know what I mean?

[Brian Barrett]

Yeah, I, I still keep coming back to. I don't think they'll do anything that aggressive I think they may trade Simons and pick something back up in return and try to save money that way. Just. I don't see this being the year that they do that.

[Evan Valenti]

Yeah.

[Brian Barrett]

And by the way, I don't. I don't see any reason for the Clippers to move Zubak because, well, if.

[Adam Kaufman]

They'Re going to be playing better. No, it gets trickier.

[Brian Barrett]

Yeah, they're playing a lot better. As Valenti alluded to and as Valenti said, they don't have their pick. Like, what are you going to do? I mean, they're trying to. Their whole goal is like two years from now to have salary cap space. Yeah. Harden's playing well. Kawhi is playing like a monster. You might as well try to make it to the playoffs. So I don't see that being really making sense.

[Evan Valenti]

They're like one or two games out of the plane right now. There's. They've. They've come way back up.

[Brian Barrett]

Yeah.

[Adam Kaufman]

Yeah.

[Brian Barrett]

And they'll get into the plan. I mean, unless Kawhi or Harden gets.

[Evan Valenti]

Her, which is possible.

[Adam Kaufman]

You can't rule that out.

[Brian Barrett]

No, especially. Especially with Hawaii. Yeah. Yeah.

[Adam Kaufman]

All right, well. Have anything to add?

[Evan Valenti]

No, actually, no. I think we covered now. We're in 11 minutes. I think we nailed it.

[Adam Kaufman]

Yeah. So when everyone goes back on the YouTube feed, remember CLNS YouTube page, the Celtics all access page, you can find Celtics beat. And I'm sure I will find when I go and look because I always do don't respond to everything, but I always like to look, see what the people are saying just about the show, about the conversation. It's not about the hosts or guests specifically, but I have. I've caught the ire of some Jalen Brown super fans of late and I imagine this show is probably going to contribute to some of that. That's okay. Maybe we will open up a. A YouTube commenter tweeter mailbag and address some of your thoughts on an upcoming show. By all means, if you have questions, if you've made it this far into the show, leave them. We love hearing from you. We come your way weekly. Obviously, Celtics beat as it always has. Remember, if you want to check out the audio version of the show, rate, review, subscribe, download all of these things. It. It helps us, certainly helps the show and you know, in this oversaturated market of Celtics podcast helps us continue to survive and thrive. And so again, we appreciate all of you, but if you want something that is more Boston focused, that does hit on the Celtics. But in every other team as well. Make sure you're checking out the off the pike podcast there with Brian Barrett at the ringer Spotify. It's Brian Barrett on Twitter. Barrett, always a pleasure, man. I'm sure this AQ's game for us to watch, fellas.

[Brian Barrett]

Thanks for. Well, they got to start playing better, man, but thanks for having me, fellas. I appreciate it.

[Adam Kaufman]

All right, ev. Feel better, buddy.

[Evan Valenti]

Going to try.

[Adam Kaufman]

All right. Forever for Brian. I am Adam. We'll talk to you guys next time here on celtics.