B (3:41)

This is the first appearance for Bobby.

A (3:44)

This is the debut as we stay in the Syracuse family. Brian Barrett, Adam Himmelsbach. Who else we have from Q side?

B (3:53)

Yeah, others, you know.

A (3:56)

No, there was another. What? Didn't we just have another Syracuse?

B (4:00)

Well, Sherrod. Sherrod comes on when of course, there's not enough of us. Oh, well, Drew, Drew's been on. He's a Q. Sky Carter.

A (4:08)

Yeah, I mean really, basically, Celtics beat is only Syracuse people from now on. If you don't like it, go. I'm just kidding, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. All of you people out there. I can just feel it in the YouTube comment section. Bobby, how are you, man? How you enjoying the season? Before we get into the, you know, more recent stuff, the bigger picture, your expectations coming into the year versus where they are midway through the year now.

C (4:32)

Well, first off, shout out to the Syracuse Mafia. Sure. That's going to endear me to a lot of people in the comments. And when it comes to my expectations, I slotted this team in going into the season around the 45 win mark and internally I think there was simultaneously a front facing message of we're not going to put expectations on this team, which is the right approach, but also a lot of confidence in. I understand what the pundits are saying, but we believe in what we're changing systematically at both ends of the floor. We believe in the group we have and I think more than ever in today's Game, as silly as this might sound to some, effort is a skill that is going further. And this is a group that is largely starving to prove themselves. Whether it's Jaylen Brown shouldering more responsibility and saying, I, I always believed I could be a bonafide number one option. Now you finally get to see it. Whether it's guys who didn't get to carve out their place in the league in prior stops, like a Luca Garza or a Josh Minot. Jordan Walsh, who, it felt like his NBA career could have potentially been on the line coming into this season. And so what you get is 48 minutes of consistently being the harder playing team or matching that energy for the most part. And so this is a group that, with that combination and Joe's coaching ability and the ability to accentuate what everyone does best, you all of a sudden have a team that is second in the East.

B (6:01)

Yeah, there's some things that have obviously gone their way. The health thing has been. I think maybe the biggest one that doesn't get a lot of shine is the main guys on this team are relatively healthy. Like, I almost. I almost got into it. I was talking to the. A coworker of mine. We were having breakfast over at a local diner, and this one guy came in and he was. He was bitching about, you know, what people, older people about when they watch the Celtics, like, oh, there's too many threes. Oh, oh, Jalen Brown's not playing enough games. And I. And I, I honestly, I had to get up and be like, dude, are you kidding me? Jalen's only missed three games. They've played 43 games. He's played 40. Derrick White's played 41. Peyton Pritchard's played 41. Sam Houser's played, like 42. I'm like, what are you even talking about? And he's like, oh, well, you know, I was like, no, no, no, no, you're. You're incorrect. These guys actually play. The one thing that we. That I don't think we've talked about enough, Kaufman, on this show is the fact that this team has found a way to stay relatively healthy. And that's probably the biggest reason why they are in second. Like, why they're in second place in the Eastern Conference. We talked about it all offseason. Kaufman, any injury to the starting five, and we didn't even know who the starting five were. But, like, if Kata goes down, if Brown goes down, if White goes down for any extended period of time, this team is absolutely sunk. And Bobby you have to admit, like given what are they, 44 games into the season now, this is probably the best outcome in terms of health that they could have even asked for this year.

C (7:35)

Oh yeah, without a doubt they have been very fortunate on that front and we'll see how the rest of the season goes there. But certainly there are obvious names they can't afford to miss for an extended period of time, as you said. So Namish Kater, he missed that game the day before Thanksgiving against the Pistons and Amari Williams, among others, steps up. They get the win, but that's in a vacuum as a one off. If Namishkada went down for an extended period as currently constructed, that would create quite the challenge for this group to overcome. Again, obviously Jaylen Brown being an MVP candidate, you lose him, you're just not built to withstand a loss like that. So certainly. And they've played plenty of teams that have not had their best player and it feels like that's happened at TD Garden quite a bit. So I don't know if the home fans are always getting their money's worth with the price of tickets, but nonetheless I look at the balance of this group and the depth and that's something where when players are out for a short period and usually it's just been a game at a time, they have people they can lean on and, and others they can call on from the bench and the stay ready group to be able to step up on a particular night.

A (8:44)

Cells 28 and 16 or as our guy Greeny always likes to highlight 28 and 13 after an 03 start. Obviously this team has, has played exceptionally well I think with respect to the injury stuff. And you're right, it's worth highlighting. And our guy Seth was in our, our three man, our text thread recently talking about this. The, the, the Celtics have been, if not the healthiest team in the NBA certainly up there in terms of their key personnel. And that's great. That's an important thing to point out. It's an important thing to highlight. But where I, I walk a line is, you know, and, and this is, you know, a little bit of just being naive. Right. I mean I do think there are some medical staffs, training staffs across the NBA that are better than others. I mean how could there not be. But I'm not going to sit here and praise the Celtics training staff and, and all of these guys up and down for things that, that are just outside my purview. That I don't know that that could very well be somewhat Coincidental. And what I mean by that is, you know, injury like in there's a reason the, the expression injury luck exists. The Celtics, you know, knock on wood, right? That's all a part of it. They have been lucky to be in the position they are in. I don't mean the win loss record. I mean the fact that again, as ev highlighted, this guy's missed this many games, this guy's only missed this many games. The fact that the most important players have been out there for the bulk of this season, that's, you know, it could just as easily as Giannis misses time for Milwaukee, as Jokic misses time for Denver, as Morant misses time for Memphis, as all of these guys up and down, up and down. Reeves, even for the Lakers, like you can point to any team and say, well, you know, Jalen Williams, he missed all that time at the start of the year for the Thunder. We could do this across the board. Hell we could. You know, it's, it's a, it's a carryover, it's a holdover, but it was one of the number one stories of, of the off season and continues to be right now. The lack of Jason Tatum, right. It's not like the injury luck is fully on the Celtic side, otherwise they would be a top of the Eastern Conference by a wide margin because Tatum's been available to them all year. So I, I think it's just kind of one of those things that you hope it all works out for you in the end, but you can't plan on it. You can't necessarily celebrate it. You just sort of, you know, go through it and, and hope that it doesn't change. You know, that's, that's kind of where I fall on the, the injury side of things. Like I, I, I hope they keep going at the rate that they're going, but it, it doesn't take, you know, it's, it's the easiest little slip on the hardwood on a wet spot or non contact injury when a guy gets, you know, caught lean in the wrong way or, or angled. Any number of things we've seen it, right? Gordon Hayward broke his hand randomly in a, in a playoff game. Like stupid crap happens. And I'm hopeful like anyone else, this Celtics team avoids that. But I guess that's, it's not like I, I've been unaware, any of us have been unaware to Boston's ability to get its key players on the floor throughout this year. While other teams have had some troubles. Not all teams but, but some, but I guess I guess part of my hesitation in bringing it to the forefront is just. I don't know, like, don't. Don't jinx it. It's. That's. Again, like, that fl. It's. You have injury luck on one side, you have. Don't jinx it on the other side. It's all just the. The way we look at this stuff.

B (12:02)

F. Yeah, but I think you have to acknowledge it, though. It's just like, again, a big reason why they're off to this great start and having all these great, you know, accomplishments so far this season is because they've been. Been relatively healthy. And that's. And it's honestly crazy to me when you think about, like, how hard they play, Bobby. Like, this team plays hard. I mean, you got guys that cover, you know, 94ft. You got guys, especially with, you know, all these closeouts, trying to, you know, all these things. You're. You're. They're crashing the offensive glass, trying to create extra possessions. Like, they're doing all these things, and a lot of it, you know, you know, easily a turned ankle, a knee spray, like, anything, that just hasn't really happened yet. So I think we're. If we don't acknowledge this, Bobby, the fact that they've been so healthy and the fact that they played this hard, like, if we don't acknowledge the fact that it's part of this whole thing, and again, we're not covering the Celtics correctly, it's just something that we have to acknowledge. And again, kudos to everybody for being in great shape. And that seems to be the thing, right? Like, what did we learn last off season or last, you know, NBA playoffs? Is the two teams at the end, the. The Thunder and the Pacers, like, their. Their conditioning was unbelievable. And that's something that Boston leaned into heavily this year.

A (13:11)

I think that's.

B (13:12)

I mean, you can correct me if I'm wrong, Bobby. I think that's why they drafted Hugo, because they're like, this guy's an absolute maniac and doesn't stop moving. Like, Kaufman, you heard me, during the off season, watching Ugo tape, I was watching an hour of it, and I'm like, man, if you just watch him play, it's just like, I'm exhausted for him. Again, I think it's a big part, again, of their entire season, Bobby, has been their conditioning, their health, their. Their injury, luck, all that stuff combined together.

C (13:37)

Yeah. They also play at a faster pace than a year ago by a significant margin. And there's not as much walking the Ball up. With Jason Tatum out and oh, by the way, and Adam touched on it, it's not lost on anyone. But when we talk about injury luck, the other side of it is that their best player hasn't played a second this season and is recovering from the most devastating injury in sports. There's certainly been significant advancements and I've spoken to leading experts when it comes to Achilles tendon repairs and they believe that there's no reason Jason can't come back and be even better than he was before the injury. So it's certainly come a long way. It's still the most devastating injury in sports. So there's that side of the equation on the health front. You're obviously right, Evan, that you can't just talk about the season and gloss over how fortunate they've been. And the training staff, again, that's beyond my scope. But look, Jaylen Brown went into the season with hamstring tightness and he played through even a back to back right out of the gates and refused to miss any time. So I think that speaks to the ability of this training staff to keep guys in the lineup and able to perform at their best on a consistent basis.

A (14:49)

Say Quick Break tell you the show is brought to you in part by our friends at Prize Picks. Whether you're starting a new routine or making player picks for the first time, trying something new can be hard. But in life and on Prize Picks always feels good to be right, doesn't it? With high pressure playoff matchups every weekend that's going on still in the NFL and elite hoops action almost every single night. The action, it just never stops. And Prize Picks lets you take control. Prize Picks Best place at Best place to get real money Sports action join.

B (15:19)

Over 10 million users folks, sign up today. I'm one of them. Adam's one of them. Bobby, you need to be one of them. As we get Keep moving here.

C (15:25)

I'll get on it.

B (15:26)

Kaufman, I know it's going to shock you. I know it's going to really rattle your cage. But once again, Flex Play saved my really you Unbelievable. A captain Flex play here it is remarkable how many weeks in a row I've gotten two out of three correct. But that's the beauty of Prize Picks. You can get your money back even if your lineup isn't perfect like mine every single week. I've been holding on to the last part of my allotment for so long, I can't even believe this. Once again, hit two out of the last week. Here we go with Our flex play picks of the week from prize picks. We're going to start in Denver. Ramond Ramandre, Stevenson, Coffin. We're going more than 18 and a half receiving yards.

A (16:15)

Hell yeah.

B (16:17)

Even with his eye injury last week, he still got 11. So he doesn't get too much more as long as he plays the whole game. I think we're going to be fine there. We're going to stay with that game, Coffin, for our second leg of our lineup.

A (16:30)

Okay.

B (16:31)

RJ Harvey. Less than 40 and a half rushing yards.

A (16:36)

It's a great defense.

B (16:37)

He's been below that the past two weeks. When Milton Williams is in the lineup of the Patriots, their rush defense is insane. Add Kyrus Tonga to that as well. I like that number. And then for the last one is our free square, Sam Darnold. More than 0.5 passing yards again, the LA Rams. I feel very confident with that. So one more time. Yeah, I know. Flex play one more time. If I get three of all three right, I get my 3x of my money. If we get two out of three, I get my money back. So stay tuned for next week to see how I. I only got two out of three and Kaufman. Getting your money cannot, cannot literally be any easier. In just little as 15 minutes, watch your money roll into your account. Again, I use it for. I use Venmo. Look at your Venmo account. Super easy, super simple. And you can do it too.

A (17:27)

Again. Download the app today. Use the code CLNS. You get 50 bucks in lineups after playing your first for only $5. Download the prize picks app. Do it right now. Do it while you're listening to us right here on the show. The promo code is CLNS. You get $50 in lineups after playing your first for only $5 prize picks. It's good to be right. So we're hanging out here with Bobby. We're talking about the Celtics and if there's. Bobby mentioned this before and, and I'm not picking on Bobby. I mean Shams talked about this on the Macabee show yesterday. So I'm, I'm, I'm picking on him and Bobby and anyone else that does this equally as much. This is just for me. It's, it's a, a nit to pick, if you will. It's, it's a semantic whole thing for me and I've talked about this a little bit so I don't want to go expansive on it. We don't need to have a long conversation about it. And really where I would like to End this little thing is actually on praising Jaylen Brown up and down for the way he performed not so much as a scorer, but a facilitator, a playmaker and a shot creator. All of these things that he did in this game in Brooklyn. But can we stop referring to him as an MVP candidate? Like, can we stop doing that? Because like Drake May, for all you people out there love talking about the Patriots, Drake May is an MVP candidate. Why? Because, you know, we don't know if he's going to win the award. Is he going to win the award? Is Matthew Stafford going to win the award? You know, a little bit of a coin flip. I know the votes have already been tallied. We're going to find out the NFL honors the day before the Super Bowl. But Drake May might win the mvp. You know what Jaylen Brown is not going to do by any stretch of the imagination unless SGA goes down at some point? Win the mvp. I know that he's fourth on the odds board. Last I looked anyway yesterday, sga, heavy favorite. And then you basically have, you know, Luca, Cade, Jalen, all kind of bunched up together. If you want to tell me we've got a real race. I mean we had a race, we had a two horse race, SGA and Jokic. Jokic went down because of the new rules, you know, last couple of years where you got to play the minimum 65 games to qualify for postseason awards. Jokic, because of the injuries, not going to, he falls out. All of a sudden you have an overwhelming like minus 500 favorite on sportsbooks in SGA to win this award. It's his ward. He's going to win. Unless he gets hurt and misses time. If that happens, I, I will take all of this back, all of it, and I will have a conversation, a debate, a spirited debate about Luca, Cade, Jaylen Maxi, whoever else you want to put in the conversation about, you know, who's the front runner for this award. Because at that point, yeah, it'd be wide the hell open. It's not right now. Kaylen Brown will get second place votes, third place votes. He'll have votes. He'll be like on the board. But he's not going to get first place votes. If he does, he's going to get like one or two. Overwhelmingly the first place votes are going to go to sga. So to me, again this, I, I've talked about this on and off for years. It mostly with Tatum because people always want to do this with Tatum. The last couple of years, unless you have A realistic chance at winning the award. You're not a candidate. I. I realize this is a little bit semantic, and it's going to sound like it's like, anti Jalen Brown. It's not. Has nothing to do with Jalen. This is about literally every player in the NBA who's not sga. I mean, I assume you guys see where I'm coming from on this. I feel like it's a lot of, like, the MVP chance or, you know, people who want to hype him up as an MVP candidate or look at what he's, you know, where would Boston be without Jaylen Brown? Like, I agree with all of the, you know, of course Boston's not sitting second in the Eastern Conference, four and a half games out of first, if not for a career year that Jaylen Brown is having, but he's still not going to win Most Valuable Player in the NBA.

C (21:23)

Yeah, Adam, the simple answer is it's a long season. And right around this time in particular is when these conversations start to get loud. It was two years ago that Jayson Tatum's MVP case, and he was talking about it publicly at his postgame pressers, and there started to be this media rally and cry of, we need to take a closer look at Jason Tatum's MVP case and look at his rebounding and his defense, and he's setting the table for his teammates and everything he's doing. Yes, he's got this loaded roster around him and he's not averaging 30 points and he's not Nikola Jokic, but we need to take a closer look. And there was this, I don't want to say propaganda, but a lot of MVP chatter. And his case started to balloon this time of year because there's so much to cover and so much has been dug into on all these fronts for all these teams and. And all of a sudden, the national media and the casual fan, they just start to catch up late to the party on what Jalen Brown is doing in this case and how he's carrying the Celtics team that most people from the outside didn't believe in going into the year, the second in the East. He's playing the best ball of his career while shouldering more responsibility. And so it's not necessarily people saying, and it's why you're right when you say, hey, everybody, MVP candidate should be reserved for a legitimate chance, although the door is wide open because of the minimum requirement for eligibility. And what if what happens to Jokic happens to sga, God forbid, Now it changes, and there's this group behind SGA that's all clustered together and Jaylen Brown's a part of that. But I think people, it's one, how long the season is to what you pay attention to and catching up late and three, that Jaylen Brown is having this amazing season where he's proving that he is a certified number one option.

B (23:10)

The only thing I and I totally agree with you, Kaufman. I don't think Jaylen Brown at this moment is a legitimate MVP candidate just because we all know that Shea is going to win this award. I think that's.

A (23:20)

I get.

B (23:21)

I even think the people with the greenest tinted glasses can understand that Shea is going to win this award as long as he meets the requirement of games played and finishes the season out. Right. That's without saying. And if Yokin somehow meets the requirement of games he's going to be in second place right behind him and even would have a shot in my opinion to overtake him. But my thing that I have a question with is this and I've seen some people talk about it and maybe it's good for our discussion and our purposes here. And I'll start with Bobby on this one. If you remember correctly, all the chatter about Jason Tatum can't win the MVP award because his team is loaded. Right. With Chris Stabs and with Drew Holiday, Jaylen Brown, everybody on that. Al Horford, like everybody on that roster was a loaded roster. They won the title. So obviously worth having a loaded roster. But a lot of the discussion was you can't give it to a guy on a super team. Even though he's the second player like in the end it's. He is the highest scoring single season in Celtics history. Correct. At 30.1. I think he beat birds out just by a little bit.

A (24:22)

Right.

B (24:25)

We all heard that Jayson Tatum can't win MVP because his roster is loaded. Why don't people make that same argument for Shea? Now I understand they're. They've only lost nine games. What are they? 37 and nine. As, as, as we record here right now. 37 and nine. Some stupid number.

A (24:44)

That is correct.

B (24:44)

They are detailing their opponents. Yeah, their, their net rating is through the roof. Their offense is unbelievable. Their defense is unbelievable. But that they won the title last year. That roster is loaded. Why don't people make the same not argument but the same point with. With Shays MVP candidacy? That's my question.

C (25:08)

So outside of the games requirement that's now in place, there's not a hard lined criteria in boxes. You have to check and okay, we're grading based on X, Y and Z. And so some people, maybe even a lot of the voters might consistently adhere to, to their metrics that they go off of, but it's still going to be inconsistent because the group of voters is so large. And so that's what happens. And maybe to a small degree that is relevant to the conversation for voters and the national media with this conversation, but not enough to really be a talking point. Now, quite frankly, if you're a sports talking head, it's a great zag. And maybe that's not the perfect term to go with here, but if you start bringing up, hey, wait a minute, SGA is on this loaded team and maybe we should be denigrating his MVP case a little bit. I think you can certainly gain some attention for yourself going that route. It is a valid point. But again, the criteria, it's going to change what we care most about, what we talk most about is going to be different one year than the next. And that results in contradictions.

A (26:16)

Yeah, I think the I don't want to turn this into like, you know, Thunder beat on the CLNS media network. You know, we would need our guy Joe Sway to host that one. But listen, you can't ignore the fact that Jalen Williams, who is all due respect to Chet, the second best player on that Thunder team, he's missed 20 games. 20. He's missed half their games. And they're still at this ridiculous record, as you noted. And so I think SGA gets that much more credit for that reality. Never mind all of the efficiency statistics that our buddy Seth texts us every single morning. I feel like, you know, because he's doing things on the. Like I'm going to keep doing this to just to pick on our viewers after last week. For all the conversation throughout the NFL season about Drake Mays doing something Tom Brady never did statistically and he's the first quarterback to do X, Y and Z and all of that. SGA right now is doing things that Michael Jordan did not do at his peak, at his prime at any point in his career from an efficiency standpoint and singularly this season, when talking about that, that just can't get ignored. So, you know, I, I think when you're looking at SGA and you're looking at the Thunder, yeah, like you can say this team is incredible and defending champions and all of that obviously. But increased feathers in the cap of SGA and his candidacy go to what he has done as an individual statistically. Not that his teammates aren't a part of that, the fact that he hasn't had his, you know, he's Batman, he hasn't had his Robin with him for half the season, and even Isaiah Hartenstein has missed half the season. So I, I think it's, you know, these are the factors as far as I'm concerned when it comes to that type of thing. And again, it's just a. Jalen has been incredible and we're going to break in a second. When we come back, I want to talk more about what he did against the Nets, knowing full well he could have a completely different style of game against the Bulls later on tonight as we sit here. And some of you out there may not listen until after that game is played as well. So I don't want this to be a deep dive into the Brooklyn Nets game, obviously, but there are some things from it to celebrate in that double OT game, whether it was Jalen, obviously, Ugo, Amari, Williams, some of these different guys that stood tall when they needed to. But the, you know, I, I, I just, I like to periodically mention the fact that it's okay to be a homer and to be excited about your guy and talk about all the amazing things that he's doing. But you, you can put a ceiling on it. And that doesn't mean putting a ceiling on Jalen's potential or anything like that. It just means, hey, you know, it again, it's semantic. Is Jaylen Brown a top five player in the NBA period? I think most people would say no. But is Jaylen Brown this year a first team all NBA player, which would kind of indicate he's a top five player? Well, I would say yes. You know what I mean? Like that's, that's the kind of conversation that exists when a guy and, and honestly, like, be grateful. And I don't mean you, the listener, viewer, I mean all, all of us, right? Like the, the Celtics fan. Be grateful. We get to have this conversation that Jaylen Brown is doing the things that he is doing out there on the floor to help put this team, to lead this team in part to where they are right now. But that just doesn't mean it's going to end in a most Valuable Player award. Quick break.

B (29:44)

Tell you.

A (29:44)

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B (30:13)

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C (31:09)

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C (33:17)

Hang on.

A (33:21)

All right. Nope. Find it. It's coming. Hang on, hang on, hang on. Rally it back. All right, we're good. Bobby. He was great. He was awesome. What stood out to you about the way that he performed?

C (33:35)

Well, I wish I could pass my water through the screen. But as far as Jalen's performance, what he got last night from Brooklyn and Jordy Fernandez is an excellent coach. He got the Jason Tatum treatment. There are so many nights where what we see from Tatum is teams say we just want to get the ball out of his hands, and if his teammates beat us as good as those rosters were the last two years, we'll tip our cap and walk away because you almost have to pick your poison with a roster that talented. Last night, what Jordy Fernandez said is we are going to be ultra aggressive and we're going to cycle through a variety of blitzes and sending a second defender over at Jaylen Brown because we want the ball out. And what he said was, fine, so be it. And it was the timeliness of just quickly getting the ball to a Peyton Pritchard so he can put 32 on the board and attack downhill. Giving it up to Anthony Simons and getting it to these guys not just stationary, but at times off of movement. There was even one where he couldn't beat Nick Claxton. And Jalen talked about how frustrated he was that he's dealing with left hamstring tightness. And he felt like that he should have been able to handle when Claxton gets switched on to him out on the perimeter. But. But he just didn't have that burst that he's accustomed to, so he wasn't able to get by him. And immediately he pitches it to a cutting Peyton Pritchard screens Nick Claxton or screens Jaeger Damon, I believe. Excuse me. To get the switch onto Pritchard versus Claxton he beats the Brooklyn center and gets two points at the rim. So Jalen, to me, what he did as a facilitator, that's what you see when you are the top option and playing at the level that Jalen is, where other teams and opposing defenses, they just want to put enough pressure on you to get the ball out. A turnover is honestly gravy. But more than anything it's don't let this guy beat us because he can. And to his credit, Jalen consistently, it was the right reads and doing so quickly.

B (35:32)

Yeah, the cross court skip passes when he's double teamed. The guys that are wide open either on the corner of the wing are always going to win me over. But the thing that I like, the low turnover number and I can tell you off the top of my head because I just know this for a fact, only one of them was a live ball turnover and only had two. But one of them went off his leg like out of bounds. So you can set your defense. The other one was live ball turnover. And I'm not, I don't remember if the Nets got any points out of it. But you get my point of. Turnovers are bad, there's no question about that. But they're worse when they're live ball and you can't set your defense. So the Jalen's credit, who has been known to dribble the ball off his leg, off his foot, etc. Etc. He kept that to a minimum last night despite the fact that he had hands at his, at his legs, at his knees, you know, trying to swipe the ball away as much as humanly possible. You got to give him credit for that, you know, sticking with it. I know again, the 5 or 10 from the free throw line is rough and that's, you know, been his bugaboo pretty much his entire career. But he's gotten much better at that throughout the season. But you just love a guy who finds ways to impact winning basketball. And that's kind of the last part of the ascension to the, the final chapter of being a superstar. And Tatum found that, I think in 2024 when they won the NBA title, I think Tatum became just the, the, the, the, the queen of the chess sport. I can solve everything. Brown's doing that right now too. And for him, again, either of you at any point thought that Jaylen Brown had 12 assists in a game because I never thought he'd have, he would average more than 4 and never mind have the ability to collect 12 in a game because Jalen Coming out of college. Blinders on. And I get why he's developed himself into such a, a much better all around player and it's a testament to the hard work that he puts in every season. Kaufman. I mean like again, the rebounds are great, like don't get me wrong, but the, the 12 assists and only two turnovers, I don't know. In my wildest dreams I never would have pictured that ever at any point in my life.

A (37:30)

No. And, and without looking it up, going off the top of my head, how many times he had double digit assists in a game just this year? At least three, maybe four or five. But at least three that can come to mind immediately.

B (37:41)

I'll look it up real quick while you're going.

A (37:43)

Yeah. So you know, I. To your point, we've spent like the royal. We Celtics followers in the decade that Jalen Brown has been playing at this point have been critical of his handle. Does he have a left hand? You know, is, is he working too hard to create his own shot, that he's not getting teammates involved in the way that Jason Tatum does and all these things. And you'll remember EV from our summer shows, butting up against the season. I really thought he was going to take yet another leap in the sense of, I don't even mean ability, I just mean stylistically in what was going to be asked of him. I thought that he was going to, you know, average five and a half, maybe even six assists per game this year. And I thought the scoring was going to be down. I didn't think he was going to be averaging 29, 30 points in a game. I thought, you know, it'd be comparable to what he was last year at, you know, call it 25, 27 window. You know, Derrick White is more explosive as a scorer. Peyton Pritchard takes on more of a scoring load. Anthony Simons takes on more of a scoring load. I wasn't banking on Jalen to be that guy. Not because he couldn't be, obviously, but because I just thought he was going to be asked to kind of in a, in Tatum fashion to last year in particular be someone that was going to be more focused on getting his teammates involved and therefore scoring numbers down, assist numbers up. The scoring numbers have been great. Obviously the guy is, is almost a lock for 30 points every night. And the assist numbers more often than not are in that, you know, kind of four to six window. And every once in a while he's giving you games like this where. How many was it?

B (39:29)

1203 games.

A (39:32)

Oh yeah.

C (39:33)

Three times of double digits, three double.

A (39:35)

Digit games, you know, four assists so far this year for Jalen. So, I mean, yeah, yeah, I continue to be impressed by it. I think it's great. You know, I'm, I'm curious. You know, we've talked about it a number of times, so we don't really need to do it now because I know we'll talk about it more as we get closer to the reality. But when Jason Tatum does get back, and again, I believe that's going to happen this year, I think there's an outside shot at February, you know, certainly if not then early March when Jason Tatum returns. I'm curious to see what it looks like and not the whole can they play together, can they coexist, stupid shit. I'm talking about just what's asked of them. You know, what percentage of Jason is he, you know, is, is Jalen going to continue to be the focal point in the offense, but maybe Tatum is looked to as more of a facilitator and, you know, tee up him in, in, you know, some different ways. I just, you know, I think it's going to be fascinating to see how Joe and the rest of the coaching staff deploy these guys. When you've got Jalen in the midst of a career year, doing incredible things and Jason coming off an injury, having not played any game action at all, even preseason, obviously going back to the playoffs last year and still kind of, you know, getting to re. Acclimate himself with his own body. So I, I just think it's, it's going to be a ton of fun. But again, we, we could do that up and down. I still want to talk about Ugo. We're going to do that after this final break. Tell you today's show is brought to you in part by Ethos. When you bring a child into the world, trust me, your perspective changes overnight. Suddenly you're thinking years ahead about child care, school, mild milestones that you can't wait to see. For me, part of loving my family meant thinking about their future, even in the uncomfortable ways. And that is why the recommended life insurance is ethos. Ethos. EV makes getting life insurance fast, easy. 100% online.

B (41:42)

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A (42:43)

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C (45:18)

Yeah, without a doubt. And what stood out to me against Brooklyn with Ugo specifically is that he first comes into the game and he didn't just have an underwhelming shift, he had a pretty bad one and Joe yanked him out of frustration and, and gave him the business. And even afterwards Hugo said he was right, that he was, we can swear on the show you said that it was some bullshit on my part and so he was absolutely right to get after me like that. But he went back to him quickly. So that part of it I loved. It speaks to Joe's finger on the pulse of this group, including how to coach Ugo, that yes, this is a 19 year old in America for the first time playing at basketball's highest level. I, I can chew him out right now and he's going to respond well to it. He's not going to crumble and be useless to us the rest of this game. So being able to understand who and how he can coach them and then secondly, it was really noteworthy to me. Anthony Simons had a horrific shooting night. He still could have gone back to him in that situation when he subs Amari Williams out at the end of the game. He didn't. He went to the 19 year old rookie who arrived saying the biggest thing I need to work on is my three point shooting and letting it fly without hesitation and being able to adjust to an arc that's further back than it is in the ACB where he was playing with Real Madrid. So growing up in that organization, you're not surprised at all by the poise and that he's not afraid of these high stakes moments. But this area that is the biggest concern to him when he first is trying to acclimate to the NBA and is still doing so, no problem. I get it. Game on the line from the corner and he fires it without hesitation as he's done all year, quite frankly, when it comes to shooting the three ball and he knocks it down. The first one to know, Sam Houser signaling to everyone that we're going to play on here this game is not over. So credit to Joe, credit to Ugo. And I think what you're seeing is a player who, because of his work ethic, I did a feature with him at summer league for Forbes where he talked about how the reason he's so hard on himself is the last thing he wants to do is look back when his career is over and have regrets that he didn't maximize every ounce of it. And so it's not surprising to me that a player who at that time you could see just how far behind the eight ball he was is all of a sudden that Joe Missoula trusts in. A crunch time moment like that kind.

B (47:42)

Of gives me some, some, some Aaron NE Smith vibes of like he just will literally, literally die out there if he needs to just like get a loose ball or something like that. What's, what's crazy to me is you look at the plus minus rankings for rookies this year, I think you can all guess that Ugo Gonzalez is in first place in this particular metric. Kaufman, you want to guess by how much he's leading over Vijay Edgecombe? I'll give you a hint. Yeah, give me a range or something. I'll give. I'll just tell you. Ugo leads the end the, the rookies in the NBA this year in plus minus. He's at plus 193. What is VJ Edgecomb.

A (48:23)

Lost. He's in second one fifty.

B (48:31)

What if I told you he's plus 93?

A (48:36)

Oh my God. Oh, nearly double. That is outstanding.

B (48:40)

It is ridiculous to what he's doing. It is, it is double, by the way. It's 186 would be double. He's, he's lapping the competition.

A (48:51)

Oh yeah, he said 193. You're right. Yeah.

B (48:54)

Plus minus isn't here. It's okay. It's Saturday. It's not the end all be all metric of everything. There's obviously flaws with plus minus. You have to have good teammates to have a high plus minus. I totally understand that. But it is insane that a guy picked basically in the second round. I mean it's not like Ugo was way up there. He was a late first round pick, 28th overall is found a way to be an impactful player for a team that needed this. I mean I, you know, we talk about this all the time with respect to Jordan Walsh, how they needed him to pop. You know, Baylor Shireman has done a really great job recently. I think he's up to 40 something percent from 3 recently. He's made an impact. Kate has made an impact. But, like, this Ugo thing, to get an impact at this salary from this guy this early at that particular point in the draft, like, this is ridiculous. I had Matt Powers on to talk about the Celtics draft earlier in the off season.

A (49:51)

Yeah.

B (49:51)

And I remember telling me, you know, on my board, the Celtics went in the opposite direction of what I had him. I had. I had Shoga ranked higher than both of them. I had Amari in the middle, and Ugo was at the end. Like, he's like, I don't get the Ugo pick at all. And I. I understood what he was saying at the time. I was like, I totally get it. You know, he's a baby. But when you watch him, you're like, this guy's insane. Like, his effort is ridiculous. Like, you watch him on offensive rebound tippins. He's just an absolute freak of nature. But this particular guy, at 19 years old, has found a way to make an impact on a team that is in second place in the conference. This is pretty. And this is not a guy who's out there scoring a kajillion points. He's doing the little stuff, being a connector. And to have that at 19 is very, very rare.

A (50:41)

I.

B (50:42)

And to him for him to come in again. He got screamed at last night. You know, scout talked about it like, yeah, hey, who got pulled? Because he went underneath the screen. And I know. You know, I think it was Michael Porter who pulled up basically from the logo. It's like, I know he pulled up from super far away, but they're like, the way they want him to guard this, they want him to go over no matter where Michael Porter is. And he screwed that up. Herman, come back in, keep a level head on his shoulders, and then after that, come in and make the biggest play. Hit the three in the corner with a game of the line like Brad Stevens, Joe Missoula. These guys, I don't. Whatever they do, they just know what they're doing. And I gotta just. Kudos to everybody in the scouting department. This kid is unbelievable. And he's doing Bobby. He's doing stuff that I don't think anybody expected this early on in his career, but it's been awesome to watch.

C (51:29)

Yeah. As a quick aside, I can tell you that specifically against the Nets, that is very high among the coaching points that they talk about going into those matchups is get over the screen on mpj. Joe told me one of his favorite moments from the last time they were in Brooklyn was that Josh Minot Went under and. And Porter missed the three. But Minot was furious with himself and he kind of felt like, as you should be, because we talk about this so much and drill at home and you need to get it right. And when Joe talks about those 10 to 15 plays that make the most difference in the outcome, that was one of them, in his opinion. So for Ugo to then go under, that's a bad look for how much they drill at home and how much that is on the scout for when they play the Nets and they're dealing with mpj. But as far as what he's bringing to the table, and you go back to the draft, I think this was a team that did a great job understanding, yes, he didn't play a ton his last season with Real Madrid, but they don't just scout that one year leading up. It's like how the public will overreact to how someone performs during March Madness. But the tail of the tape for these teams goes way further back than that. And so with Ugo, they saw someone who was playing at a really impressive level at younger ages when he was getting more minutes and then they really enjoyed 2 points you nailed there. One, the connector quality that he has, that in today's NBA is so crucial and so hard to find and you could see it in his game at Real Madrid. The other is the cutting and his impact, moving and making plays when he doesn't have the ball in his hands. So when you pair that with this Aaron Neesmith, like absolute defensive menace that is willing to die on the floor, you have someone that, yes, he's raw, but he's also 19 with a pretty impressive body that they trust in their infrastructure to continue to grow that and what it can do. And I think he's gotten appreciably bigger since he first arrived. And so they trust all the puzzle pieces to come together on this raw prospect who grew up in an elite organization and be able to contribute. And he's doing it right away. And as Adam said, there's a lot of excitement in the unknown of how high his ceiling can ultimately become.

A (53:48)

So again, Celtics four and a half games out of first in the Eastern Conference, which is certainly top heavy. Detroit in first and then you have Boston, then within the next couple of games, Toronto and the now slumping York Knicks. The schedule continues to be favorable for the seas at Chicago. That is tonight as we sit here now Monday, back home for the first of a four game homestand against the Blazers. Not great. Hawks, Kings, Bucks, all between now and a week from tomorrow. All games Boston is fully capable of winning, quite frankly. At minimum, should go four and one and then you're at Dallas, you're at Houston. Obviously it's never, never easy to, you know, go down to the Texas Triangle, albeit San Antonio not being part of this trip, but again at Chicago. Just continue doing what they're doing. Wins out of 4 out of 5 coming into this one and hopefully Boston can continue on. But great to have Bobby Krivitzky here with us for the first time. Get him on Twitter at that very same name part of Forbes Hardwood Houdini Bobby of Syracuse Fame as well. We appreciate you hopping on with us, man, and we'll definitely do it again as the season continues.

C (54:59)

Pleasure is all mine, guys. Excited to make my debut.

A (55:02)

Check out all great Celtics podcasts on the CLNS media page, the CLNS YouTube All Access page as well. It's where you can find us specifically, and some other shows as well. Some of the guests that regularly appear on this program as part of the network. And for ev. For Bobby, I am Adam. We thank all of you. Go Patriots. Obviously, everyone excited for that game coming up tomorrow. I hope. I imagine you are, but there's a lot to be excited about with these Boston Celtics in the months to come as well. Hopefully taking us right up into the middle of summer. Till then.