C (2:39)

Yeah, probably dead.

B (2:45)

I'm not gonna make a big deal out of this, but I'm just gonna announce it to the thousands of people listening to the show that you're an.

C (2:51)

The literal. The literally tens of people.

B (2:54)

I ruled.

A (2:56)

All six of you. Yeah. Bill, Ted, Tyrone, thanks all for being here with us. Let's talk about our Boston Celtics guys.

B (3:07)

Yeah.

A (3:07)

29 and 18, losers of two of three bulls. Certainly a winnable game. Go and take care of business against the Blazers. No issue there. And the Hawks, not a team you want to lose to. Obviously not a great game. But again, this is, this is a big picture show. So we're not going to dwell on what happened against Atlanta, nor we are going to, you know, do a deep dive into previewing this upcoming game here with Sacramento. But this, if I'm not mistaken, Seth, is the first time this season you have been on with us and going back to the off season, obviously. I mean three of us were texting every day. So I know how you feel about stuff. You certainly did not have high expectations for this team. Incredibly low any way, shape or form. You know, it like lottery bound like you read about.

C (4:03)

Yeah.

A (4:04)

Now that we are sitting here, geez, almost 50 games into the year and we'll get to all the Jason Tatum stuff and trade deadline and everything. By the way, don't, don't think we're gonna graze over that. But starting bigger picture, how are you feeling about what we're seeing from this team sitting tied. Pardon me, Tied for second in the Eastern Conference.

C (4:25)

Well, so it's interesting. I. One of the, the main reason I thought they wouldn't like that it wouldn't be a successful season was just had to do with Tatum. And so in, in many ways I'm encouraged by how wrong I was about how good they're capable of playing, how well they're capable of playing without him. Like that's been really fun. And I think, I think the main piece of that that I, that I don't think anyone saw coming is just how good like people who thought the team was going to be good were like Derek White, Jalen Brown, Peyton Pritchard. That should be enough for some wins and like. And I disagreed with that. I didn't think it would be enough. I don't think anyone thought we'd be get the Celtics would be getting this much out of like all of that collection of young wings on the team. So Walsh, Shireman, Gonzalez, even Minot, a little bit like that. To me, those guys being actual rotation players is like, sort of the important revelation from the season. It's the thing that matters going forward. It's like, it's why it. It means that those guys are going to be part of things next year when Tatum's healthy. So, like, whatever, you know, it's. Tatum's been in the news, maybe, like, not feeling comfortable coming back this year. Whatever happens with that, we'll see. But either way, I think next year is the most important year, and I think you can't be anything but incredibly encouraged about the fact that they've got these young guys coming up who are actually contributing to winning already.

A (5:59)

So all that in mind, and this is sort of how we kind of transition in part to Tatum, in part to trade deadline stuff. How have you in season moved the goalposts on this team?

C (6:10)

Well, it's interesting. So if Tatum comes back, I think you have to look at them as a threat to make the Finals. If Tatum doesn't come back, I don't think they're a threat to do much of anything. I mean, like, it's been a. It's been a relatively successful season. But I think the other night against Atlanta, you see, like, you know, even if, like, one of the bigs, like one of the bigs that they have currently, you know, Keda Garza, and that's basically it at the moment. One of those guys is out or has a bad game, and they're basically drawing dead like a Kongwu is what? And Yaka Kongwu on Atlanta is what, like, six, eight or six, nine? And he was just, like, gobbling up the Celtics for that entire game. So, I mean, I think if Tatum, like, bringing Tatum in and moving everyone down a level in the pecking order into a place where maybe they are a little more, like, suited to the role they're playing. Could. Could unlock a lot of things. And the east is just, like, such garbage that you have to think they're a threat to make the finals. At the same time, it's like nobody in the east is beating, like, any of the four or five best teams in the West. So I don't know. I mean, like, does that answer your goalpost question?

A (7:30)

Yeah, I think so. It's just, what. Where it gets a little murky is, you know, the trade deadline is. As we sit here, guys, is.

C (7:37)

Yeah.

A (7:38)

What, like four, five, six days away? What's the date? February.

B (7:42)

I think it's a week.

C (7:44)

Yeah.

A (7:44)

Yeah. I mean it's. I'll tell you, I'll just put, I can look it up, but I'll just put it this way. Before our next show.

C (7:50)

Yeah.

A (7:50)

Is the trade deadline. It's coming. So you're gonna know one way or the other how Brad Stevens, Mike Zarin and the rest of the basketball brain trust feels about this group in terms of, you know, what chips they want to throw to the middle. Is the Simons have any value? What, what is, what is our, our being the Celtics? What is our potential obviously in, in this Eastern Conference. Well, before you're going to know whether or not Jason Tatum is coming back.

B (8:23)

Week from Thursday the week.

A (8:24)

Thursday the 5th, a decision needs to be made.

C (8:28)

Yeah.

A (8:29)

Here by the Celtics. And you know, we've been again talking about a lot of this in recent weeks on this show. We've definitely, the three of us in our text thread been talking about it constantly in terms of who would you want who might spring available? Who's worth it? Who would you attach assets to? Like, you know, because there's the Simon's conversation in terms of the money and then there's the who are you actually willing to give up first round capital for? So let's, let's drill down on that. I feel like that should be the main thing here right now for people because Tatum will get there again. But Tatum is such an unknown. This we know. We know that. I think we all collectively. I'll speak for Evan and I, anyway, I guess I'm not certain about you, Seth. We believe enough in this Celtics group to say Brad owes it to them to add. They've done enough to say, you know, to, to justify doing something within range. Right. Like I, I wouldn't go out and acquire Vucevich. Like I wouldn't go get a rental. I'm not going all in on this year. But you need to go out and get somebody who can help you both this year and in the next year or two who's ideally, you know, around 30, sub 30. I mean, you're not. Again, again, you're not looking for a, a veteran to put you over the top just to, you know, make the NBA Finals and get slaughtered or something like that. You're looking for someone that can be a piece to help you contend maybe this year, but definitely in the next couple of years with a healthy Tatum. So that in mind, what do you have your eyes on?

C (10:05)

So it, what you just said is interesting because you, you sort of like as you're saying that you're making it sound like it's like a big category of players, but even with the parameters you just laid out, you've actually narrowed it down like to a very small list of people. Like if you're talking about, if you're talking about like bigs specifically who are under contract for multiple years at a number the Celtics could fit into their salary structure. Who might be available. I mean like I've got a list here for you if you want. But yeah, of course, like the complete list of centers under on multi year contracts who the Celtics could like feasibly get in any universe. It's a Kong Wu who's probably not available. The Bulls have Jalen Smith. I don't know. Like, is that doing anything for you? We can talk about that. Would, would Cleveland trade Jared Allen? Probably not in this circumstance. May. Maybe you could pry him loose. Daniel Gafford from Dallas. The Pistons aren't trading Isaiah Stewart. I imagine there's guys like on Indiana, there's Isaiah Jackson and Jay Huff. There's Zubots from the Clippers and Brook Lopez from the Clippers like Zubots was. It sounds like the Celtics actually made an offer for Zubots maybe already this year. Simons plus a first and a swap and the Clippers turn them down. The Grizzlies have Santi Aldama, the Bucks have Miles Turner. I think we've, we've been down that road in the past. It seems like probably not interested in that one. The Thunder aren't trading Jalen Williams. The Magic could with the Magic trade Wendell Carter. Are you interested in Jakob Pearl? And then there's the guys from the Nets. There's Nick Claxton and Daron Sharp who. I think those are the guys who are most interesting to me maybe. But I think like if you're talking about bigs who are on like long term deals, who you could have, who would like you could bring in at a reasonable cost, help you this year and then be part of the team with Tatum next year.

A (12:12)

That's 30 or younger.

C (12:15)

Yeah, I didn't filter for that, but yeah, all those guys are basically 30 or younger. But like so that I think that's a pretty good list. But it starts to get like when you look at who's actually available, who they could trade for financially, like what, what kind of assets do you have to give up? I think that all gets really tricky. I wanted to ask you guys though, do you like. So you know there's been all these rumors going around about like in the last couple of days. So maybe, maybe The Bucks are going to trade Giannis, and then there's injury stuff going around or going on around the league. So, like, for example, the Rockets lost Stephen Adams for the rest of the season. So, like, I don't know, some. Like, what that means to me is that some stuff, like, jogs loose. So, like, a player like Nas Reed, for example, on the Minnesota Timberwolves, that's a guy that I think we all like. A couple weeks ago, if we had been talking about this, we would have said, that guy's totally not available. Now if, like, you know, if there are these rumors are true that Minnesota is trying to put it together, an offer for Giannis, and, you know, they don't have any draft assets to trade. They have to get those draft assets from someplace. And so that might mean trading a guy like Nas Reed. So I think, like, you know, over the next couple of weeks, there might be names that come up that. That we haven't heard yet. But to me, that. That list I read is like the. Like, the whole list of centers who are possible. So I don't know, like, but one. One interesting idea I was having was, would you, like, if you knew Tatum wasn't coming back this year, what about something, like, I wrote it down. Oh, like, could you do Simons and Hauser for Stephen Adams and Fred Van Vliet? So you take these two guys from the Rockets who aren't gonna play for the rest of this year, probably.

A (14:12)

Right.

C (14:12)

But are under contract next year at reasonable numbers, and you, maybe you. You trade expiring contracts you have, you kind of like, do free agency ahead of time. You pick up those guys and you do something like that. So, I don't know, injuries at this time of year and, like, big names that come available on the trade market that could jog some things loose also.

B (14:35)

I think, yeah, the big man thing is interesting, and I threw this other monkey wrench in it because, I don't know, the proof's kind of in the pudding at this point, but, like, with the way Boston's been able to develop bigs for the past couple years, you know, do you really have to swing super high to get a big in here that's going to be competent? Like, you know, yeah, I would love to have some of these guys. I know that the people got really infatuated with Jaren Jackson Jr. For a while, but pointed out several times, and I think we did end the show, a guy doesn't get a lot of rebounds for a big guy. It's, like, now part of that is the way they play.

A (15:09)

Right.

B (15:09)

Because he probably has to go out and challenge a bunch of shots but at the same time like I'd want my guy to average more than like six rebounds a game. So like you know, you look at they've, they've obviously let Amari Williams get a little more comfortable with the big league club considering, you know, the health of both Keda and, and Garza recently. He looks like he's has promise but again we'll see with that. He's got a lot more seasoning to go. But you I like I was just as you were talking st looking up like free agents at the big position and for this upcoming offseason and tell you it's grim. It's just, yeah, it's pretty tough. You know, you're looking at some guys have club options like Hardenstein's got a club option. Vucovic Nurkic, Zach Collins, Mitchell Robinson, Robert Williams, Mo Vogner, Nick Richards, Andre Drummond, Dwight Powell, Kevin Love, Mason Plumlee, Bismo. You get the play point. Like it's just not, it's not great with that route either. Like that doesn't, it's so it just doesn't exist.

A (16:11)

They don't have money.

C (16:12)

Yeah. Yeah. Well. And that scarcity that you're talking about, Evan. Well we'll, yeah, I'm all over the place but we'll get into the Simons thing. But like that scarcity you're talking about, like let's say the Celtics have somehow the mid level exception to play with this coming off season. Like how many if, if that position is that scarce, how many of those guys are even going to be available for that number? So does it make sense to even if you, even if you like like Simons and think he's a, a piece you'd want to try to get on like a reasonable contract moving forward after his contract expires at the end of this year. You know, if there's, there's going to be plenty of guards who are available for well under the mid level exception, are there going to be bigs available for that? And so I really think this is like that Simon's, Simon's is expiring contract is this moment in time where they have a chance to. They have like they happen to not even have to worry about the Tatum question actually because the same thing they need this year with or without Tatum to get better is the same exact thing they're going to need next year when he gets back. And so you know, you're talking about like trying to bring someone in long term. So I, I think using that resource and maybe some amount of draft capital to bring in a center who can play with these guys like this year and next year, I do think that's the way to go. And as I've said to you guys in the texter, my favorite, my favorite option here is, is trying to get Nick Claxton from the Nets. I think he does such different stuff than Keita and Garza. Like, those guys are like big, beefy dudes. Claxton's like, really like, fast. He can dribble the ball. He can, like, switch a lot on defense. He blocks shots, so and so even though he's not a good shooter, he's like a really good passer. He just brings like a lot of different things to the table than Keda and Garza. And so to me, like, giving up some draft capital, getting him in the door and having him be part of the team moving forward, that would be like a really great outcome for this deadline.

A (18:24)

Let's do more on Claxton and how that involves Anthony Simons as well. Coming up in just a moment. First, today's episode powered by Prize picks. The big game. It's almost here, folks. There's no better way to cash in during America's biggest sporting event than prize picks, where it always feels good to be right, doesn't it? Always. And since the big game is right around the corner, it that also means it's your last chance to get into the football action before next season. It's sad, really. One football game left.

B (18:56)

I don't know what I'm doing with myself.

A (18:58)

We're so close to this season being over. But prize picks, you can get $50 instantly in lineups when you play your first for only $5F.

B (19:08)

Kaufman.

A (19:10)

Yes, sir?

B (19:11)

You want to have a guess as to how, how last week went for our flex play Friday?

A (19:16)

Two out of three.

B (19:17)

You'd be correct, sir.

A (19:21)

Ding, ding, ding.

B (19:22)

Did it again. Flex play saves my ass. Thank you Price Picks for this. I. I was this five weeks in a row where I've hit two out of three. I've had the same $21 in this account for like five straight weeks. I can't get rid of it, which is fine. It allows us to keep playing for another day. And with that. So look, we know it's the last football game of the season. I want to stretch this out for two weeks. Okay? So what I'm going to do this week, Kaufman, is I'm going to throw some legs of the lineup at you. And then we're going to rehash this next week and we're going to nail this down. Are you on board with me with this?

A (19:59)

Naturally.

B (20:00)

Okay, Very good. So we're going to start. I have four Patriots legs of the lineup and then four Seahawks parts of the lineup, but we'll combine them for next week. Drake May, more than 05 passing yards. So you can lock that in as one of the ones that's going to happen. Bryce Baringer, more than four punts in this game. Raman Dre Stevenson, more than 51 and a half rushing yards.

A (20:25)

Okay.

B (20:26)

Stefan Diggs, less than 44 and a.

A (20:29)

Half receiver yards less than. All right.

B (20:32)

This hasn't. Just hasn't. I think a lot of teams are like, you know what?

A (20:35)

That's.

B (20:36)

That's Drake May's third down.

A (20:37)

Blank.

B (20:37)

Like third down. He looks for him all the time on.

A (20:39)

He's been spreading that around, especially with Matt Collins back.

B (20:42)

Yep. And Ramandre Stevenson for the Seahawks part of this. Jake Bobo more than half receiving yard. So he's just got to make a catch basically in a positive direction. Sam Darnold more than 1.5 passing touchdowns. Jackson Smith and Jigba more than seven catches. And then Kenneth Walker less than 74 and a half rushing yards. So those are my. Those are the ones I'm throwing at you. You guys know the drill by now. I get all. If I hit all 3 or 3x my money. If I get 2 out of 3, I give my money back. Which has been happening all the time recently. So again, everybody knows at this point. And getting your money from prize picks couldn't be any easier. In as little as 15 minutes, watch the money roll into your account. I use Venmo. Literally. Nothing easier than that Coffin. You just transfer to Venmo. Bam. Right back in my bank account. Easy, simple, painless.

A (21:37)

It will not surprise you to hear that I don't love the Seattle version. I would really like to lean into the Patriots version.

B (21:45)

We're gonna mix and match them.

A (21:46)

Yeah, no, I. I get it. I get it. Listen. So find your community on prize picks. With the new Social Feeds feature, you could share price picks with your friends. You can copy lineups from winners with a single click. It's that easy. Copy lineups you like or use them as inspiration for your own picks. You can even follow prize picks partners like us tail fade our picks. Whatever you want to do, only with one click. Prize picks now as early payouts. If your player gets off to a hot start you have the option to cash out those winnings before the game even finishes. Just go to bed easy. Download the prize picks app today. Use code CLNS. Get $50 in lineups after you play your first for only five bucks. Again, that is code CLNS. $50 in lineups for you after playing your first for only $5. Download the prize picks app. Do it right now while you listen to the show. Prize picks. It's good to be right. All right, let's get ourselves back to Seth here.

C (22:47)

And so you want to talk about Simons?

B (22:53)

No.

A (22:53)

Well, Claxton and Simons, because, you know, I. I think the. Unless. Unless you tell me. I mean, this is your trade machine dream here. If the Celtics are. Are acquiring Claxton, is Simons not almost automatically a part of it? And. And so. All right. So that's kind of where I go, especially with a team like Brooklyn does Brooklyn. And I realize this team sucks. There's no reason not to be a seller and all of that, but to some degree, even the smallest of degrees for a team like Brooklyn, roster construction has to matter at least a little bit, right? Like, you know, do you really want, like, a 75th guard on your roster giving up Claxton to get Simons?

C (23:37)

Well, they got a. They got a Jordy Fernandez proof their roster. They have to, you know, they don't have their pick next year. I forget what the deal is with that. Who, like, what team does Houston on their pick? I can't remember. But. So, like, this is, you know, this is when they suck. So this is when. This is a really good draft coming up. The next couple of drafts aren't supposed to be as good. All kinds of reasons why they need to be terrible this year. I mean, I do think there's. There's some truth to that. Like, you know, there's rumor Claxton's in rumors, Michael Porter Jr's in rumors. Maybe they want to keep those guys to try to be good next year. Like, they've been losing, like, recently with those guys anyway, so maybe they. Maybe they don't need to trade anybody to tank. But I do think there's probably, like, you know, you're not getting Claxton for Simon straight up. Even if. Even if some people around the league might think that's like, a fair trade in some ways. I. I don't think many people would think that. But, um. So, yeah, I think the question, like, you know, we. We have these recent reports that the Celtics turned down an offer of Simons plus a pick for Vuchevic earlier this year. And then this other piece of reporting that, like, that they, the Clippers turned down Simons and a couple of picks for Zubots. So, like, it seems to me like the Celtics are like, the Celtics and the league are both, like, aware of the fact that the Celtics would like to get a center, that Simons is the piece they have to trade, that they are willing to move some amount of draft capital. So the question is like, does someone want that draft, a draft pick from the Celtics? And I think maybe, maybe the Nets would want to turn that contract into future stuff.

B (25:24)

Well, you look at what they just did in the draft. They have five rookies in the last draft.

C (25:28)

Sure did.

A (25:31)

Four.

B (25:32)

That's another one. That's the thing with this next thing, which I, I understand where you're coming from in terms of, you know, maybe you can trade guys that are on your roster that you don't have futures for. I don't think the Nets think that the next great Nets team is going to have Michael Porter jr. And I don't think, I mean, we all like Claxton, but at the same time, like, you shouldn't keep Nick Claxton to keep you from getting better. But my point is, like, does that need more rookies? Because they already have a way too many of them. They have to find playing time for all those guys. It's just like. It just feels kind of like a jumbled mess. And I almost look at that Brooklyn situation and I say, like, that's the last team they would. I would rather from Brooklyn rather have, like, proven players. Could you convince them of a, you know, is there a way to throw? Like, and I think, I know he's playing a lot better lately with Baylor Shireman, but is there a landing spot for Baylor Shiren plus Simons for Claxton and X? I mean, I got. You got to figure out how that's going to work out.

C (26:26)

Oh, like, instead of a pick.

B (26:28)

Yeah. I just don't mind Brooklyn. Like, why am I trading for more picks? I already have a ton of young guys in this roster. I don't need any more.

C (26:37)

Yeah, I think that makes sense. I mean, I'm just basing, you know, like, you hear that they are interested in acquiring draft assets, but I mean, yeah, I think it. It doesn't necessarily make sense that they would do that, but I think there's a reason. There's some smoke there. So I think, you know, that that's one that definitely makes some sense to me. I think, you know, I think the Other question here is like, that has to be addressed a little bit, is that there seems to be this like burbling up of this idea that Simons is like somehow important to the Celtics, that he's like doing things that can't kind of be like replicated elsewhere. And I, I do think clearly he's had some very good games recently. Like that 39 point explosion where he, he carried them to a win. Like he, he from Seth.

B (27:26)

He plays like this every game. I'll eat my words.

C (27:29)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I will say, like. So I, I found like a really good stat that I gotta share with you guys, which is like, you know how it's been like a big topic of conversation that like Hugo Gonzalez is like on pace to set the all time rookie record for like plus. Minus.

A (27:46)

Minus. Yeah, yeah.

C (27:47)

So.

A (27:47)

Well, he's more than doubling up second, right, Edgecombe?

C (27:51)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I got curious because, like Simons is what, like seventh or eighth? Sixth or seventh on the team and net rating or whatever. So Simons has played 1151 minutes this year. This is per PBP stat, if that's a site people use. So 1151 minutes this year, he's plus 162 points, like raw points in those minutes. So 411. So like less than half of those minutes have been with Ugo on the floor. And then 740. More than half have been with Ugo on the bench. Plus 162 is the total number. Plus 158 with Ugo on the floor, plus 4 with Ugo on the bench. So, like these. You always have to look at one.

B (28:45)

Of the plus floors from the Utah Jazz game where we're offered 39 points.

C (28:49)

Right? Like, it's like these numbers always, like, I don't know, like, especially with guys who aren't starters, I think these plus minus numbers can get like a little bit wonky. But it. I.

A (28:59)

It's Danny Ainge. And tell us the plus minus doesn't matter.

C (29:03)

No, I think it matters, but I think it matters. Like, the more you play, it matters the, like, the more you play against the other team's best players. It matters to me. Like, you know all this stuff. The more minutes you get to share with Derek White.

A (29:16)

Yeah, naturally.

C (29:17)

You know these. Like, if you're, if you're on the Nuggets and you get to play all your minutes with Jokic, like, are you the reason that. And anyway, but I just thought that was so funny that like almost a hundred percent of the positive point differential With Simon's on the floor has happened in like this tiny sliver of minutes that he shared the floor with Hugo Gonzalez. Like it seems like Ugo is kind of like magical in some way. Like that guy.

B (29:44)

Dude, last night I said Hugo. Hugo is hilarious. Or who goes? An animal or psych or something. Like he was just. That was the game. He just does market smart stuff where he just like.

C (29:55)

Yes, yes.

B (29:56)

Ruins a game and.

C (29:57)

Yeah.

B (29:58)

And the three point shot coming back, coming around recently has been. Yep, you know, good. He makes mistakes as all 19 year old rookies make, no question about it. But he makes up for it more times than he doesn't. And he's just a ball somebody. Somebody with was maybe scal. Somebody was like. He basically just every time you watch him play, it feels like he just had a Red Bull. And I think Red Bull's a great nickname because he's flying constantly out there. It's great.

A (30:27)

We don't need to give him a nickname.

C (30:29)

Yeah, he's just Hugo.

B (30:30)

Hugo Boss.

C (30:32)

Sure. You know, you mentioned something about like, I don't know if it would be your preference, but like to move Shireman instead of moving a pick. And I gotta say I've been like incredibly impressed with Shireman also. I just think that guy like knows how to play, knows how to defend. It was like again, we're talking about a loss to the Atlanta Hawks, but like. And he missed a bunch of the shots that came off this. But it was exciting to see him like try to take like if he got a smaller guy switched on to him and he was like bringing that guy into the post and trying to like take advantage of that matchup column. Yeah, Yeah. I actually think he's a keeper. Like I think him, Walsh and Gonzalez are all like absolute keepers who they have on these like rookie scale contract. Like they're in a. They're in.

A (31:22)

Let's talk about that.

C (31:23)

Yeah.

A (31:24)

And nobody, I mean unless your name's Jason Tatum. Right? Like, nobody is an untouchable. So I don't want people to think I'm taking this in that direction. No, no, but in terms of your priorities, like, like you'd have to make me a crazy offer to get me to get rid of this guy. You know, in terms of like it's, it's got to make a whole lot of sense and then some. Who are the guys in this, this next iteration? You know, like just we're, we're looking ahead to next year if the Celtics are positioned to be championship contenders, hopefully, you know who from this current roster to you is on that team.

C (32:01)

Yeah. So Tatum, Brown and White. And so like there's. So that question isn't just about how good of a basketball player you are, it's about your contract also. Right.

A (32:13)

So of course it is. Yeah. It's, it's all, all encompassing.

C (32:17)

So you don't need to, you don't.

A (32:19)

Need to tear it. I mean you can organize it however you want to, but.

C (32:22)

Yeah, yeah. Well, I just want to say like that's fine too. Like, like I think Pritchard's on the team. I think Pritchard's on that list. But I also think like, you know, Pritchard and Hauser are both like players with some like pretty good value around the league. I think on, on con. Like it, it depends like what players might be available in a trade. But like so I think Pritchard and Hazard would be the next guys on that list. But you know, like I don't think they're like untouchable. And then I think the three rookie, the three young guys, Gonzalez, Shireman and Walsh, I think you have to have on that list. And then Keita and Garza just because like Garza less so, but because you know you have those guys under contract at the minimum basically next year and they're like capable of being in a rotation. It would be really hard to move those guys. I think like unless you. So with, with everyone on that list except like the top guys, Tatum, Brown and White. I think unless you're getting back in a trade a player who like really, really moves the needle. So like that's why with a guy like Claxton who I think is like an excellent player but not, not necessarily like like putting you over the top. I think I'm willing to give up Simons because I don't think he's an important piece moving forward. I'm not willing to give up like Shireman for example, because I think Shireman is like an incredibly good value right now for what he does and a guy you have the ability to sign to a long term extension anyway. And so yeah, I'm like drawing a line there a little.

A (34:03)

Well, you didn't. Was I missed it? I don't think I did. You didn't mention Minot who in the first, I don't know, call it third of the year was absolute. I mean he was reasonably high on that list, especially considering his contract.

C (34:18)

Well that's just purely because of his. So like they don't have extension rights really on Minot, as I understand it and so like, I just like that's more practical than like, I know he's been hurt. So that, that's like the reason he hasn't been as important lately, I think. I think he's work. He's like a good enough player. I was super excited about him when they signed him in the off season. I've had my eye on him for a while, but like, yeah, I just, you know, he's like the kind of player where if he's good, they don't really have the opportunity to like have him be a long term piece of the future. Whereas like the rest of these guys. That's what's so cool about what's going on with Shireman and Walsh in particular, who are guys that we saw last year and didn't see much of. And it started to feel like, ah, man, like they wasted these bites at the apple on those guys. And now it feels like those are guys who could be signed to like the kinds of extensions that they got Hauser and Pritchard on in the past, which is like super valuable. That's like, that's the holy grail here is like if they have Brown and Tatum, that's like, right. They're never going to be able to like sign free agents that they're, they're never going to be anywhere near being under the cap. Like. And so.

B (35:32)

Yeah. Because those two guys make a kajillion dollars. Yeah. But if you look at like, I agree with you, like the way that you kind of set it up, I feel like they'll probably retain one of Hauser and Pritchard and then like two of the three of the Walsh, Hugo, Shireman list. And then after that I think there's like Cata and. And then everything. Everybody else is kind of like whatever. But yeah, when you look at like the way they're gonna have to structure this again at some point, like people are gonna get moved for just. Just to get rid of stuff and help their. Their salary. Catchy. I mean they've already started to do that. You know, how they approach this trade deadline will kind of tell us what their mindset is, which is why it's so fascinating that this next week is fascinating. Tell us so much about what the next move is and how they're going to try and build this thing for the long term success. And I think that's what makes everybody kind of like, at least for me personally, mystified what they're going to do because they have. We don't know because Bill Ch. Bill Chisum is the unknown. We don't know what his mandate is. We don't know what his prerogative is. We don't know what he wants this team to do. You know, when Wick's around. We heard from Wick, I'll spend when the team's good. And then he put his money where his mouth was and he did spend. And they want to title. We don't know what Bill, Bill's a fan, but Bill's a private equity guy. We don't know.

A (36:59)

Well, it's, it's, it's funny you say that though, because do any of us feel like if, if we're just going off history and the comment you just referenced, like, do any of us believe that this team would be adding this year under Wicked?

C (37:17)

Well, I don't really know. I, I think it's like an incredibly interesting question. Like I, you know, part of it.

A (37:22)

Too was like, it's Danny versus Brad. So that's a part of the dynamic also.

C (37:26)

There's so much more going. Like, there's the whole, like the way the league has changed in this regard though too is just like Danny was up. When Danny was running the Celtics, he was operating under these old rules where like the only penalty to spending money was the money itself. Right. Like, it didn't really impact your ability to like, to, to be flexible with your roster and make changes and make deals like now, if you like over the summer, like, I think they caught a lot of criticism for moving on from some older players who were making a lot of money. And I think, I think now you see the wisdom of that. Like, they got younger, they got more flexible. That like, ultimately you have to find out if your young players can play. Like, even if Porzingis was having a good year this year, it just didn't really make sense to, to like be locking them in themselves into that team as it stood. And so I think, you know, the question of spending money is just, it's become a lot more complicated than just like, is your owner willing to spend? But I think in this instance, what we can look at is like, okay, so whether Simon Simons is an expiring contract, $27 million.

B (38:41)

Sure.

C (38:41)

Whether they bring like, whether they just let that contract expire or replace it now with equivalent long term salary. No matter what, they're still going to be over the salary cap, like heading into next season. Even if they let that 27 just like slough off the books. Right. They're still over the cap. And so then the only mechanism you have to add a player is the mid level exception, which is going to be around, like, 12 or $13 million, I think. Right. So with Simons, with his contract, they, like, today, right now, this week, have the ability to bring in a player who makes, like, up to 27, maybe even a little more than 27 million. So I think we will sort of see, see, like, are they content to just let that contract go, get whatever they can get with the mid level exception, be, like, way under the first apron, maybe even under the luxury tax and play it out like that? Or are they willing to stay over the luxury tax, stay next year, stay in the first apron, maybe even begin approaching the second apron and. And use that bigger salary slot that won't be available to them next year. Year. So that's the, like, that's why this deadline is so important, I think, is because, like, that's what we're gonna learn.

A (40:04)

Should we take it over to Jason Tatum?

B (40:07)

Yeah, you want to.

A (40:09)

You have more thoughts on the deadline or potential acquisitions or Anthony Simon's place?

B (40:15)

Put a bow on this. It's like, again, the clarity that you're going to get and the one thing that we can make. Okay, who should we do? We'll tie this together.

C (40:22)

Right?

B (40:22)

So this is good podcasting. I think maybe Seth said this either on this podcast already or in a text message. I'm not quite sure. But whatever you do, whatever you do at this deadline, you have to do what in whether Tatum comes back or not. Like, it doesn't. Like, you shouldn't be factoring him coming back this year into this trade.

C (40:43)

It actually doesn't matter. Yeah. Like, for the purposes of this trade deadline, it really doesn't make a difference. Like, unless you, like, want them to somehow, like, flip now, like, as a team that's 29 and 18 and, like, start tanking, which I just think the ship has sailed on that. But, like, either way, it's like, why not make the team a little better this year?

A (41:06)

Yeah, I. I mean, I wouldn't even say the ship was sailed. I don't think that ship was ever in the waters. Yeah. So let's talk about Tatum, because he. He went on the Pivot podcast this week, said he has doubts about how. How, excuse me. He would reintegrate on a Celtics team that has exceeded expectations without him. And, you know, honestly, I. It. It felt a little validating. Vindicating, you know, whatever word you want to put on it, Ev. Because how many times in recent weeks have we talked on this show about. About what does Jason Tatum look next to this Jaylen Brown this year? How does Tatum feel coming back, trying to now blend in to a career season that JB is having? And what is working so well in this offense that is running differently without Tatum? And of course, some people took that to mean, can these guys coexist, how do they work?

C (42:04)

Blah, blah, blah.

A (42:05)

No. And I feel like we've made that abundantly clear along the way, is this is not jtjb. This is Tatum is relearning his body when he returns to the floor, especially if it's this year and there's no offseason ramp up, there's no preseason ramp up, there's no practice games, if you will. It's boom, right out of practices with the team. You're ready. Here we go. Let's see what it looks like. And so Tatum really, for the first time in all of this, and he's been talking for months, this guy has been talking for months about coming back, having a. A goal on the calendar and it's going to be a home game, and he's got an idea of when he wants it to be, and yada, yada, yada. Every implication, even though he hasn't said the words, have been, he's coming back this year. As long as his body is right, he's coming back this year. On this Pivot podcast, which is a good listen, he indicated that maybe there aren't physical hurdles, maybe there are mental hurdles to deciding to return this year. And of course, people heard that and said, I think maybe he had a setback. He probably. He probably had a setback. And he's just not saying it now, now, like he's pulling back a little bit, there's a physical problem. And then Joe Missoula goes on the Sports Hub in Boston, says he's good. Not good ready, but good. Like no setback, no physical. Anything has popped up. Which of course brings you back to the. Is there a mental thing that is going on right now? And I'm not going to be critical of Jason. I can't begin to put myself in Tatum's shoes, you know, going from, as he said, feeling like the king of the world to the, you know, smallest man in the world. I can't imagine what it must feel like to go from being a top five player in the NBA to at least for a moment wondering if your career is over. I get that this guy wonders what he's going to look like when he returns, whenever that is, and if his body will be able to do the things it used to do. I think if nothing else, the fact that he made these comments, guys, and tell me if I'm off, off base with this. This is based on nothing but my opinion. I think it actually indicates he's probably pretty close physically. Like, he even said, if I come back, the team will have played, you know, 50 something games, 60 games. We're pretty much there. I think Jason Tatum in theory could be playing again in another two, three, four weeks. If mentally he feels up to it. I think physically he'll be able to. It's actually a really interesting dynamic now at this point, Seth, that I never considered, I never really thought would actually enter the conversation. Go ahead.

C (45:18)

You're asking me.

A (45:20)

I'm just sort of. I'm stopping. Well, I think to be stopping talking and I'm letting you go to me.

C (45:25)

I think what was so interesting about it was that he seemed really vulnerable. Like, I think that's why it's like a little bit confusing is because it's a, it's like a true moment of vulnerability and like he was vulnerable without being crystal clear. And so I think, you know, you could make a big list of like, all the things he could be worried about. Like, you could be worried about your body, number one, like, you're coming back from an injury. Like, as you get closer, maybe that reality sets in and you're like, gosh, I'm going to, like, I'm going to re injure myself. Who knows what's going to happen. I could set myself back even further. There's also, like, there really is the fitting in question. I mean, like, like, I don't know the degree to which he's like, paying attention to, like, I would imagine he's like, really paying attention to like, the exact ways in which Jalen Brown's game has changed this year. And I think, you know, we've, we've talked on this podcast in the past about like, Jalen being like, having a little more like, maybe having like, better numbers even in certain, like, isolation scoring situations than Tatum and like Tatum being like a better passer than Brown and like carrying that mantle. Like, like you want the ball in Tatum's hands at the end of games because of the passing, but maybe you wish Brown was taking some of those shots. It's like, maybe there is some like it. It's not like them butting heads, but it's like some questions about how do I fit in and like getting worried about that and wondering how that's gonna work. I think they're like, you know, like, you could imagine a world where he, like, sees the team doing so well and, like, doesn't want to screw it up. You could imagine a world where he sees the team doing well and feels jealous about it. Like. Like, I don't want to, like, speculate as to what's going on in his head, but I think what. What. When I watched those clips from that interview, it. He just sounded like a person expressing some amount of vulnerability. And I think, like, it's pretty rare to get that from athletes. And so I, like, I felt sort of, like, moved by it, actually. And like, I don't know. I don't know if he's going to come back this year. I don't know if he should. I've been wondering about that all along. I mean, I don't know what you think of, but.

A (47:30)

Well, another quote just, you know, sort of summing up a lot of what we both just said. He said, the Celtics have an identity this year or things that they felt have clicked for them, and it's been successful second team in the east up to this point. So there's a thought in my head like, how does this work? And of course, right after that podcast, and I should have mentioned this before, but everyone out there listening to this already knows Chris Haynes had that report. The NBA Insider. The Tatum is, quote, reevaluating his situation and considering sitting out this entire season. Which, of course prompted the questions to Missoula about the physical stuff. And he said, no, everything has gone well in the rehab. But, yeah, I have. I agree with Seth with what Seth is saying about the vulnerability. He sounds like, you know, someone that's, I don't know, looking for some.

C (48:20)

Like, realizing he doesn't know how he feels about it, about something he thought he knew.

B (48:26)

Here's what I'll point out, because I think you can. You can make the cross reference between the two interviews. You're referencing the Joe Missoula interview and the Jason Tatum interview. You listen to the Tatum podcast. He goes to talk about how much he loves Joe Missoula and how Missoula really cares about every guy on this team. There was a great quote that also came out Thursday from Derrick White. When Missoula called him on his birthday in July, he was like, hey, man, happy birthday. He goes, oh, thanks, coach. He goes, everybody thinks we're gonna suck this year. So I. I think they're wrong. And then hung up the phone and they just. They went on about how much they love Joe and how much they appreciate like, his. His style of talking to people. And, you know, Jason echoed the same thing of, like, how much he loves Joe Missoula. Joe Missoula allows him to feel comfortable in being vulnerable. Like, that is a ton of power from a head coach to make each individual person feel comfortable in their own skin on the team. It's great stuff.

A (49:23)

That's.

B (49:24)

It goes beyond the X's and O stuff of coaching. That's really important, which is why Greg Popovich. Reason why Pop was awesome is, yes, he was a great X's and O's guy, but he knew how to connect to people. Right? That's a huge part of this equation. So with Tatum. Go ahead.

C (49:39)

I was gonna say it's like the secret sauce to all of Joe's, like, weird tough guy stuff. Like, yeah, like, that. That. That stuff always weirds me out a little bit. But, like, he does seem to have this, like, other side to him that, like, understands that this other stuff is actually much more important.

B (49:57)

Yeah, he should feel like this way. He should feel like, oh, how am I gonna fit on this team? That's good. And then Miss, like, I'll be the guy to remind him that you're Jason, Dave, you're gonna be fine. And then you. We all have this data over the past how many years and how many times in the show we talked about it. Jason Tatum plus four dudes equals net positive rating. You could go throughout Tatum's prime of his, then. Prime, like, from 22 to now, if you look, yeah, him plus four dudes. It was a positive net outcome, no question. So, like, yeah, it's gonna be fine, but it's going to be on Missoula to help kind of nurture him along and make him feel comfortable again. And because Tatum already feels comfortable with this, I feel like, yes, it's great. He feels one of all these things, but I won't be like, dude, it's gonna be okay. You're Jason Tatum.

A (50:48)

It's gonna be fine.

B (50:50)

Let everybody.

A (50:52)

It's.

B (50:52)

It might take a minute, but the right people are in place to make this work.

A (50:59)

I was thinking. I mean, it's unrelated but related. I was thinking about a thing I saw the other day that was. It was some whatever on Twitter. Like, what's. What's something that happens all the time in movies that never happens in real life? And the, you know, response was like, people would just hang up mid phone call all the time, you know, just like, fish. It's like you've just decided the conversation's over. Nobody says, Bye. That kind of thing. I bet Joe Missoula is one of those people.

C (51:27)

You know, my, My grandma was one of those people.

A (51:30)

She just hung up.

C (51:31)

Oh, yeah, she. Yeah, you'd be like, in the middle of being like, I love you, and she'd just click.

A (51:36)

No, no, my. My grandmother was the complete opposite. You, like, I love you happened 14 times before that call ended. But anyway, yeah, it's. So what's in. In the wake of this news and we'll wrap this show up here, you know, but what is your gut feeling, you know, each of you. I'll. I'll offer an opinion, too. I mean, do. We've been. Evan and I, anyway, have been emphatic that Tatum is going to play at some point this year. Oh. About what's going on in recent days. I know you've been on the other side. You have not believed, like, any step of the way that he's playing this year. So it's. That's what makes for an interesting little, you know, conversation here. Do you. Do you believe that? After his interview, Joe's comments, the Haynes Report. Do you think we see Tatum this season?

C (52:22)

Well, actually, for a couple months now, I thought we would. And now I. I wonder. I mean, yeah, I don't know, but I think they're in, like, a pretty good spot where I actually think, like, just the way things are playing out, I think, like, there's not. I don't think there's a ton of pressure on him about this. Like, I think whatever he decides, like, it's not like he's like, screwed anything up by not playing or screwed anything up by coming back. Like, it would be a different story if the season had gone differently and they were like, in tank mode or whatever. But, like, I don't know, they're just, like, trying to be as good as they can and it would be cool if he came back, but if he doesn't, like, it just makes next year. It makes like, hopefully they can just get a fresh start next year. And I. And on top of that, as I've said before, I think they should treat the trade deadline the same way either way. So I, like, you know, I gun to my head, I think he probably doesn't come back, but. Yeah, I don't know.

B (53:23)

I think. I think it's as. As we've talked about, like, this is. He's physically almost there. It's born to be a mental thing. And this is my faith in Joe Missoula. Saying Joe Missoula will get him right. And, and get him contributing to whatever they're going to do, whatever the team looks like. But, yeah, he's coming back. I still. I'm still very like, again, him going, you know, whether it's game 50 or 60 or whatever, that told me a lot. And again, you had people like. I think Forsberg had like, a list of, like, here's all the games. 51, 52.

A (53:54)

Well, you know, it's got to be a home game, right? So, like, there's a road trip, there's the All Star breaks. You're, you know, jumping around. Around that. I think we did that the last show or show before that. We were trying to figure out a date that made the most sense.

B (54:10)

He's gonna. I think he's gonna play again. I think Joe will be a big part of that. I think Sam Cassell might be. Be a part of that, too. I think Sam's got a real.

A (54:17)

He's gonna play too.

B (54:19)

Well. Santa sounding his weight up after getting tossed by Joe.

A (54:24)

Yeah.

B (54:24)

What did. What did San Cassel weigh when he played?

A (54:29)

I mean, he was never a big guy.

B (54:32)

No.

C (54:35)

Kaufman, what's your prediction about.

A (54:36)

I think he's gonna play. I do. And in fact, I think. Sort of piggybacking off what Ev was saying, I think that. Not that this would ever, like, Joe would never say this publicly, but I. I think that he will be able to almost use Tatum's angst or uncertainty or whatever the right word is for it against him in the sense that he can really make him believe. Hey, listen, if ever there were a good time to come back, it's now, because we have no expectations. Like, there's. There's nobody that believes that this team is going anywhere. You know, like, even if. Even if we did go on a nice little run in the east, like, look at all those teams in the west, like you were saying before. So this isn't a team that anyone is expecting a banner from. Like, every other year that we enter the season, it's about ring chasing. It's about Banner 19 at this point in time. This is like a free square kind of season that, you know, like, why the hell not get out there and dust off the cobwebs and see what it looks like? You know, I. I don't know. I think there could be something psychological that Joe can use in this, you know, to. To his benefit.

C (56:01)

Can I get one more prediction from you guys before we end?

A (56:04)

Of course. Is the information going?

C (56:07)

No. Is Anthony Simons on the roster after the deadline after February 5th?

A (56:12)

Wow.

C (56:14)

I'm.

A (56:19)

On the roster.

B (56:20)

They've been trying. They traded for me to trade him his.

A (56:23)

Simon's on the roster in one week.

C (56:26)

Yep.

A (56:26)

Oh, boy, am I ready to let go of the Anthony Simons tenure that fast. The pilot light, you jerk. Boy, can. Can I.

C (56:43)

Struggling.

A (56:43)

Here I am struggling because. Because I want to fence it.

C (56:47)

Yeah.

A (56:47)

And that's not it. That's not a take. But here. Here's what I wanted to say to you. What I wanted to say is I believe that the answer should be no, because it just makes sense to get that money off the books if he's not part of your future and try and get something in return. Because again, if he just walks away in free agency, like, you don't get that cash, it's not like that's opening up a spot of, you know, almost $30 million. You can go out and just, you know, spend all. All, you know, wherever you want. So, like, for all the basketball building reasons, it does make sense. And I've come around to that. It's taken me a little while to come around to that, and yet my gut says he's going to be here. So that's sort of my. That's my fence.

C (57:34)

Yeah. Well, I mean, they're not going to trade him for nothing.

A (57:37)

They should do it. But I feel like he's going to be here.

C (57:40)

I mean, it does depend on, like, what they can get. Right. Like, you can't just trade them for the sake of trading them, especially if. If, like, what you're getting. Yeah. If what you're getting back is, like, worse than. I mean, they might not be able to make anything good happen.

A (57:54)

Yeah. Like, you're not going to just trade him to trade them. You're going to trade him because you believe you're getting someone in the door who can help you, who's on the.

C (58:01)

Team next year in a way that matters. Yeah.

A (58:03)

Right. And if that guy's not there, and I know you rattled off a lot of intriguing names, but if you know it to go back to the old Danny Ainge, it takes two to tango like that. That reported offer for Zubots, I. From my perspective, like Celtics fan perspective, I would have done that deal in.

C (58:24)

A heartbeat, but the Celtics seem like they wanted to do it.

A (58:28)

But I. But I get why the Clippers didn't.

C (58:30)

Yeah. Yeah.

A (58:30)

You know, so it's. It. It does take, you know, a couple of parties here, but. All right, let's call it because it's been almost an hour and I've enjoyed it.

B (58:42)

Played by the way 185. So he's probably 200 right now.

A (58:46)

I was gonna guess 188. I would have. I would have lost.

B (58:55)

Like dispatch Sam Cassell when he, when he got teed up against the the Hawks.

A (59:04)

Don't forget the jujitsu, Joe. Joe can handle himself. Sam Cassell stands no chance of getting in the way of that.

B (59:11)

Zero. The guy weighs 200 pounds and Joe Mazool moved him like he wasn't even there.

A (59:16)

Effortless.

B (59:17)

That was real.

A (59:18)

All right. Celtics will wrap up their homestand two more games tonight. Sacramento Sunday, Milwaukee, a week from then. The Super Bowl. Just wanted to share that the Celtics.

C (59:36)

Are playing in the Super Bowl.

A (59:39)

Well, they, they're playing. They're. Celtics are. They play Super Bowl Sunday. That part's true, but much earlier in the day against the Knicks.

C (59:46)

Got it.

A (59:47)

So there's that. All right. Well, for our pal Seth Lehman, Evan Valenti, I'm Adam Kaufman. We thank our friends at prize picks. We also remind you that Celtic Speed is available to you in podcast form wherever you get your podcasts. If you're looking for the audio rate, review, most importantly, subscribe. And of course, if you like the video, if you want to comment on the shows, my next stop when we sign off is to go back and read your comments from the previous show. I'm looking forward to it. The CLNS YouTube page, specifically the all access page. You will find Celtics beat and a slew of of other Celtics related pods and content. And of course do check out all of our buddies on the patriot side of things because those guys have been killing it all season long and now it is their super bowl as well. Busy, busy stretch coming up in Santa Clara for those guys. Looking forward to it. Looking forward to being out there myself. So maybe a little Celtics beat on location. We'll find out. But Ev. Seth, I'm Adam. Thanks all of you. See you later. Go Celts. Trade deadline. My God, it's coming.

B (60:52)

Hi, it's Victor Headman from the Tampa Bay Lightning. NHL Stadium series is coming to the Sunshine State. Watch as we take on the Boston Bruins in the 2026 NHL Stadium Series in Tampa. Catch all the action on Sunday, February 1st on ESPN. Visit NHL.com Stadium Stadium Series for tickets and more information. That's NHL. Com stadiumseries and I'll see you February 1st.