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- [00:00]
A
Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons podcast. Games get 10 times better when Michelob Ultra is on the line. So race to the bottom of a slope. Winner gets an Ultra. Or enter@michelobaltra.com ultrainstructor for a chance to win tickets to the hottest sporting events of 2026. Michelob Ultra Ultra Instructor. No purchase necessary. Open to US residents. 21/plus begins on January 30, 2026. Ends on February 22, 2026. See official rules@michelobeltra.com rules for free entry, entry deadlines, prizes and details.
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B
Close your eyes, exhale, feel your body relax and let go of whatever you're carrying today.
- [00:38]
C
Well, I'm letting go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new contacts in time for this class. I got them delivered free from 1-800-contacts. Oh my gosh, they're so fast.
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B
And breathe.
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C
Oh, sorry. I almost couldn't breathe when I saw the discount they gave me on my first order. Oh, sorry.
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B
Namaste.
- [00:55]
C
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- [01:28]
D
Experian Today is Friday, February 6th, and this is Celtic speed on CLNS Media, the leading online provider of audio video coverage of the Boston Celtics. I'm Evan Valenti solo today. Today's show, episode 662, features CLNS Media's very own Bobby Manning. And today's show is powered by Prize Picks. Prize Picks is the official daily fantasy partner of CLS Media. Download the app today, use the promo code CLNS and get $50 in lineups when you play. $5. Welcome inside another edition of Celtics Feed. Everybody, Evan Valenti with you here on CLNS Media. Adam week off for Adam. He's at this thing called the Super Bowl. Bobby's the big game. I don't know why that's more important than Celtic speed, but it is. So I'm solo this week, Adam again. I'm part of Radio Row out out in Santa Clara, speaking of radio row, before we even get to anything, make sure you subscribe to Celtic Speed. Wherever you get your audio podcast, whether it's itunes, whether it's Spotify, Spotify, whatever, make sure you subscribe. And speaking of subscribe, make sure you subscribe not only to the CLNS Media YouTube page, make sure you find the Celtics all access page that you'll find us. You'll find Bobby in his various forms. Whether it's Guard Report on CLNS Media Network or the Celtics Daily show, he's everywhere in that particular channel. But I also want to shout out our Patriot CLNS guys. Those guys have been doing unbelievable work all, all week in Santa Clara between Mike Cadillac, Taylor Kyles, Alex Barth, Andrew Callahan. Like everybody has been out there killing it. I mean I've seen Milton Williams, I've seen, you know, Demario, Doug, like guy, we're getting one on one interviews with guys. It's the best, best, best channel out there. So make sure you subscribe to the patch guys. They've been kicking ass all season long. But we're coming at you a day after the trade deadline. Bobby and I did Celtics daily yesterday. We're here on Celtics beat today. For those of you that haven't been are not aware to everything, let's just recap things very quickly here. Bobby, the Celtics this week did a few things. They traded Anthony Simons. We all thought that was going to happen at some point. They got Nicola Vuchovic from the Bulls in that trade in the second round pick. They move Chris Boucher to the Utah Jazz. They trade Xavier Tillman at the buzzer to Charlotte to go under the tax. And then they signed Amari Williams to a two year 2.7 million dollar deal. Those are the things that happened during the trade deadline. Bobby Manning, our guest. Bobby, did any of this move you at all? Does it make you feel things? How do you feel about the Celtics trade deadline?
- [04:19]
B
I'm conflicted still a day later and I think I've gone back and forth on it a bunch. I didn't love the Vuchovic move initially given that I wanted to see Anthony Simons remain in Boston and continue to do what he was doing. And you know, before we are, after we got off our live show yesterday, he went out and got 22 for the Bulls in their starting lineup and looks like that's where he's going to be out there. So good for him. But we will see on Friday night what Vuchevic has and he is good to go. And the trade is official at this point. I'm sure we'll hear from him tonight and I think that's what this is going to come down to. There will obviously be some frustration over the tax maneuvering and where this team spending is going into the near future, but if this move works, if this helps them, if this is a benefit to the front court where many thought they needed another valuable player, I think it could end up being a good move. And I've said it a bunch of times at this point, I do prefer this, what they did with Vucovic to a small salary big pickup for a guy who you don't know is even going to be able to get in games or not. I'm fairly confident Vuchovic is going to be able to get in games for this team and there'll be some acclimation period. I'm sure there'll be some matchups that are tough for him and some situations where you'll have to hold him out of I still certainly think Nish K is the starter on this team, but Vic is a real player no matter how you feel about him. He's a former all star. He's a guy who can put the ball in the basket with ease and he's a physical big with an edge and that's not something they had. When you think of his post up abilities, physicality, high level rebounding and those are all things this team needed. And it looks like fortunately based on Wednesday's game that they'll be able to play all three of those guys. So yes, create an awkward situation in the backcourt. You're curious now where the spending is going into next season. But there is a chance, at least a chance that this team's better than they were a couple of days ago.
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D
Can we get into the site you want to retain Simons or preferred if they had retained Simons. It's a little trickier I think when you try and break down how they would do it. It's like you know we again we talked about a little bit on Celtics daily that we have a little bit better idea what the ownership kind of wanted to do from the beginning of the season. But like if they bring Simons back because I want to stay on this for a second, how would that look? Is it because you know, you know when they they're below the first apron so they have the taxpayer mid level exception that would be available to them in that, in that way is I I don't know if Simons takes that kind of money. Does he get more money than that from somebody else. Like, that's the. It's hard given, you know, they would have to. And if, let's say like they had kept Simons and they wanted to duck the tax, would have been a little bit harder to do that. You couldn't just move Boucher and Tillman. You'd have to move somebody else to get under that tax line. So I'm only saying this for just a second because I'm curious how you felt like they would have been able to retain him for like not just this season, but in the upcoming seasons as well.
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B
That's the question. And if they feel like they weren't able to, I think that makes this trade all the more justified. And you maintain a salary slot, you save the money you need to this year and you still get the expiring benefits next year. And one thing I will say too, you know, because we discussed it a little bit yesterday on the show, looking longer at the return that LA got for Zubat, which was effectively a real chance at a lottery pick this year, and then a distant future verse that was a hefty price to pay and obviously one that the Celtics couldn't match given their current standings. So I'm not as frustrated about that coming out of it. And you, you do maintain your flexibility here. You do have a quality B coming out of it. And if you feel like one, you weren't going to be able to keep Simons, two, that Tatum's return at some point here in the near future was going to take away shots and opportunities from El Maldemore, or three, Simons expressed that he wants to have a situation where he's more of a focal point and able to get in games consistently. I think any number of those things would be valid reasons for doing the trade that you did here. Tax savings, I think it's wait and see on that, right? Are they ever going to get back into the tax? Is this paving the way to big moves down the line, the kind of additions you need for this team to be in a championship position? Because as I look at the roster, I still see them as borderline contenders for the moment, even with Tatum back, but not quite there in terms of winning the championship. And we knew that coming into this year. And that does make some money management, cap management of the future all the more justified. At the same time, you would like to take full advantage of this season. And we know this team was pretty good with Simons and they had a nice formula, a nice dynamic. They had enough in the front court at the moment. But we also mentioned this yesterday, Evan. If Cato went down, if they had any injuries, any more losses in that front court, you were kind of screwed. And not that you're in a great position if that happens now, but you are in a better position than you were previously.
- [09:34]
D
Yeah, that's the big takeaway here is they are a little bit, a little bit more well rounded, especially if Tatum comes back this year. The scoring thing that, the scoring void that Simons, you know that happens when you trade Anthony Simons will be mitigated by a date of return.
- [09:49]
B
Plus, you can make up for Simon's absence in a bunch of different ways. Right. You can't really make up for a bigs absence. Straightforward. In a straightforward way. If that happens.
- [10:02]
D
Look what happens when this team, like when they have Kate and file trouble and they have to play guards more minutes and then he racks up more files because this team files like crazy. So then you have Amari Williams. You're playing, you know, in previous iterations of this team, you had Josh Minot playing small ball five. Like, it just wasn't a great Ugo. Well, look, I'm. I am very, very pro. Ugo Gonzalez. And as I've been screaming from the mountaintops past couple of shows I've been on whether it's cel daily or off the pike, it's that stat that Seth had last week about Ugo and his impact in the lineup, especially with Simons in it is like pretty unbelievable. And it's just like just have. Just play him more. He's just, he's just more fun. But yeah, you mentioned the depth point. Like this is a huge part of why they bring a guy like Vujovic in. First of all, he's a vet big. He's been, been there, done that. He's obviously willing, as he said a couple days ago, come off the bench and be a guy that a playoff team could use in a various capacities. But this team, I was listening to Simmons in low yesterday and Simmons made a great point of like, look at all the teams in the Eastern Conference. Like they all have several bigs in Boston. When you, when they play in Detroit or when they play in New York, they're just going to be way too small. I mean, Detroit's bigs, Duran is one of my favorite dudes in the league. Like, no question Isaiah Stewart's a big dude. You have the Knicks with Carl Anthony Towns and Robinson Mitchell, Robinson there. Like those, those are legit big. So you're gonna have to go to war against. And Boston, like, look, Kate has been a revelation this season. He's been so good. That contract is unbelievable. But, like, if you're going into those kind of fights with just Keita and Garza, you don't feel as comfortable. Now you have a Vuchevic who can come in, give you a little different wrinkle. Offensively, we'll see what he looks like defensively, but he's going to be a guy that battles on the glass, which is something that Boston is stressed this year. They, you know, they, they attack the offensive glass at a spectacular rate. I mean, they're doing it, you know, they go back to that Houston Rockets game and you had, you know, scowl in the middle of the game talking about how the Celtics had a 44% offensive rebound rate in that game. They are rebounded. The Rockets 57, 38. There's clearly a game plan where Boston just needs to crash the glass as much as humanly possible to create more possessions. They're going to get a guy in Vucc Vic who does that. Like, that's, that's one of his primary things is he is a great rebounder on both ends and he helps you stretch the floor like Boston likes when they're three, when they're big, shoot three pointers. And he's not the same kind of shooter that Garza is in terms of where he gets his stuff. Somebody had a great video, I want to say Wednesday, Thursday, in the week of just like all the trailer threes that Vuch has hit this year as a guy who just lollygags a little bit up the floor and then all of a sudden you forget about him and he's wide open the top of the key for a three. Like that's gonna be something, some poisonous.
- [12:54]
B
To him offensively for sure. And he's not 72 or whatever Porzingis is, but still a big body, still a physical post presence, something they didn't have previously this year given Tatum's absence and Porzingis's departure. So it's something you didn't have previously for sure. And you still have enough at the moment in the backcourt to get by. And it's a little more awkward now. We talked about that yesterday as well. Who's going to be the fifth starter at this point until Tatum comes back, if Tatum's back in the near future here. And obviously the reporting is mixed at this point about where that's headed. And I think Chris Mannix was on NBC yesterday talking about how it is that mental hurdle that he's struggling with in the last stages of his recovery. He's also physically there, it sounds like. And so when he gets past that mental hurdle and through the final checkboxes here, like you could be in a position where Tatum's back and fill in that final lineup spot and then the whole rotation makes sense. And this trade also makes a lot more sense at that point. So we're going to wait and see what happens there. I think what's fair at this point, Evan, is to just judge this trade based solely on how Vuchovic performs. I think that's what it's all about at this point. I'm not worried about what Simons is doing in Chicago. I'm not worried until later about the tax stuff. Right now. I think the question is, is this team in as good or better of a position to contend as they were previously? And I think there is a case for it. At the very least, it's not going to be an easy transition from what they were doing previously to what they're doing now. But without Vuchevic and without Simons and without multiple starters in Houston, this team still rolled over Dallas, certainly, and then Houston, which was a lot more impressive on Wednesday. And that just gives you confidence, especially as I watched the game on Wednesday, that Joe's going to figure out ways to win regardless of who's on the floor. And so whatever cap navigation they have to do, whatever tax maneuvers they need to make, I'm confident that if Tatum and Brown are here into next year and they can put another piece in place with the flexibility that they have now, you got to feel pretty good about this team at least being in the mix. And honestly, in this new cap environment, Evan, there aren't slam dunk contenders anymore. There aren't slam dunk champions. When you look at rosters, the roster the Celtics just had with Porzingis, Holiday, Tatum, Brown and company might have been the last of those in NBA history. Unless we end up in a Thunder situation, which are going to be rare and few and far between, so they put themselves in that position and I think that's all you can ask for at this point.
- [15:34]
D
Yeah, I want to hang on. Are they. Are they better than they were prior to the deadline? I think they're at least like stagnant. You know what I mean? Like, they're at least going to stay very similar. They are. And right where they are is a top three seed in a really bad Eastern Conference, but they're going to give their themselves a chance to compete for The Eastern Conference championship. Whether they had Simons on this roster or not, I still think they're in a pretty good spot. I think by bringing Vuch in, you address a very glaring need. I mean, Kaufman and I in the show for the entire summer, like this is the worst big man rotation in basketball. We kept hammering it every month. This is really bad. Wow. Well, he, look, it wasn't just Cata, it was Garza too. Okay. And, and Garza has won me over. I have, I, I'll give him that. He won me over. Keda really won me over and has been playing like a starting big pretty much ever since we, we had the first jump ball of the season. But the Garza thing, I was like, man, that's your backup. This is going to be tough. So now you took a thing that I thought was a huge weakness coming into the season was still a weakness of this team but not nearly as glaring. And now you've added a little bit more to it and made a little bit more diverse. So like in a way I, I again I see the vision. It helps with their, their, their cap obviously and we'll talk a little bit more about that after the break. But at least from like on paper standpoint, they're at least just as good as they were. And I think in certain aspects will be a little bit better. Obviously it'll take a little bit of time for vouch to get up to speed, but I mean given what they could do, right, because it's not like they had like every move in the world was available to them. It, it was not easy to, to make these sort of moves. They didn't have like a giant list of guys to pick from. You're looking at like Nick Claxton and, and, and, and Zubach is maybe the high end stuff, but as we talked about that Zubot deal, that's a lot to give up for Zubac. Obviously. The Nets, I know what they're doing. But the Nets were like, nah, whatever we've getting for Claxton, we're not, we're not, we're not interested in that. So now you're looking at like the day Ron Sharps, the Easy Meses, the, the Vuchovic of the world, these guys that might not cost as much but might not be perfect solutions to this. And this is where they ended up. Like would I have preferred a guy on a, on less money but a long term deal, I would have preferred mirrored that. But again given the options they had, which wasn't a ton, I think they did pretty well here to keep the ship at least moving in the same direction, you know what I'm saying?
- [18:05]
B
Yeah. And there was some reporting out there yesterday from the Toronto side of things that teams were asking for first for the Missy's of the world. And so if you were looking for starting rotation level big yesterday, you were paying a first. And that's what the Bulls were asking for initially for Vucevic as Scotto reported a couple weeks ago. And that's where the Celtics hesitated. They did not want to give up future first for a player of that caliber. Now they did for Zubac and ultimately they couldn't reach the price point that the Pacers paid there. But I'm honestly happy that they didn't go to that level for center. I feel like you can get by at that position as they have this season with stopgap development. You know, replacement level guys like they are second in the east right now with a guy that they signed as a two way, a guy that they signed to a minimum and now adding in a guy who's probably going to be a minimum ish player at this point in his career. Maybe he'll be a mid level guy, Vuchovic, but we'll see. And so I think that is enough at center now. Like it'd be great to have Al Horford and Porzingis at that position as they've had in recent years, but they've been able to make it work with good screening, good rebounding and decent scoring from those guys as well. You're getting double figures from Kaden Garza on many nights. So I feel good about them at that spot at the moment and certainly we'll see in the playoffs. Evan, like does the hustling, does the offensive rebounding, does the, you know, pinball style that it feels like right now that they're playing work in that spot where teams are really going to be keying in on it game, planning to stop it, playing six, seven games, try to maneuver that. I think it could get dicey in that spot and teams do bring a much more consistent level of effort in those in between areas where you might not have the talent of those teams, especially if Tatum's not back. But it feels like there's at least a chance that that could be the case and that's when you have more realistic expectations of getting through the east and reaching the finals and this team's in that position. And I'm fascinated by what Sunday's going to look like now with this new look roster against Obviously one of your top rivals in doing so in New York.
- [20:15]
D
Yeah, it's going to be a lot of fun Sunday afternoon with that Knicks game. Quick break to tell you. Today's show is powered by prize picks, a big game just a few days away. There's no better way to cash in during America's biggest sporting event than prize picks, where it always feels good to be right? And since the big game is just a few days away, that also means it's your last chance to get into the football action before next season. So sad. So close the season. I write with prize picks by getting $50 insulin lineups when you play your first $5. Now it's our last flex play Friday of the year, folks. It is very sad and it's another opportunity. Bob, you have not been around for this, but I will give you a little, little bit of brief synopsis here. I bet the same 21 in my wallet on prize picks for the past like six weeks. I keep hitting two out of three with flex play, so I just keep letting it roll. And every week I just come back here and laugh because I still get two out of three. So this is our last flex play Friday of the week. Last week I gave you guys eight parts of a lineup that could be used and we're going to narrow it down to three. The first one we're taking is the free square. The Drake made more than 0.5 passing yards. Price picks is giving us a layup. We're gonna take it. So there's one. So I gotta get get one more to retain my money here. I am gonna go with Ramandre Stevenson. More than 51 and a half rushing yards against Seattle. This has been the secret sauce of the Patriots offense for the past month. Plus has been Ramandre's been pretty much the most consistent and best player. I'm gonna ride Ramandre in this game and then we're gonna go to the other side. Kenneth Walker. We're going less than 74 and a half rushing yards when Milton Williams plays. The Pats run defense is incredibly good. I think they gave up the most. The rushing yards gave. It was like 52 mil. Williams is going to be dominant in this game. I have him. You know, I'm heavily invested in Milton Williams. We'll put it that way. So we're going to do Drake made more than a half a passing yard. That's a layup. We're going to go Ramondre more than 51 and a half rushing yards into a Kenneth walker less than 74 and a half. You guys know the drill. Hit all three I3X my money. If I hit two out of three, I get my money back. That's what you know. That's just been the story of the season so far. And getting your money is super easy. Little as 15 minutes. Watch the money roll into your account. I use Venmo. It's the easiest. We can do a whole bunch of different things. And you can find a community on Prize picks with a new social feeds feature. You can share prize picks with your friends, copy lineups from winners with a single click. You can copy my lineup if you want. You can fade me, you can tell me, do whatever you want. And prize picks now has early payouts. If your player gets off to a hot start, you can cash out pretty much immediately before the game even finishes, which is the best feeling of all time. So download prize picks today. Use the code CLNs to get $50 in lineups after you play your first $5. That's code CLNs after you download the Prize Picks app. They get $50 in lineups after YOU play your first $5 price picks. It's good to be right. Evan Valenti back here on the show. Celtics feet coming at you right after trade deadline. Bobby Manning, of course, here as well, from the Garden report and a bajillion other things that Bobby does for CLNs. And Bobby, before we get to Tatum, I do want to bring up a tweet that our, our fearless leader, John Zanis put out yesterday. Quote from Xanas. Credit to Joe Missoul and the players for playing their butts off. Because it's clear now, and it should have been since day one of the off season that management, ownership never cared about the season. It was always about the money, end quote. And my response to that is, yeah, it was. This is not groundbreaking. This is not. We all knew this. This is how we, we, I think going into the season, if you go across the entire landscape of all the shows that we do across our network, I would say everybody was like, this is a, this is basically a gap year. They're gonna try as best they can to get down below certain aprons and we'll see where the chips fall at the end. I, I, I mean, Zana's saying this. I can hear him in my head saying it, but I, I feel like it's a little snarky, which is a little Xanas, but, like, we already knew this. We're not breaking news here. This is, this is, this was the mandate going into the season that everybo understood like this is going to be year of development. We're going to see what they have with their young players. We're going to see what Jalen Brown can do as a number one player on the team. But yeah, we all knew they were going to cut as much as they possibly could. And credit to Brad Stevens and the rest of the crew, they did that in an exceptional way. Why I think, I'll be honest with you, Bobby. I think all the winning in in the the great stretch they've been on since like the 03 start made us forget about that so long ago that that was originally the mandate coming into the season was to get below whatever tax numbers or whatever April numbers they want to get below to and reset their salary cap. Am I crazy here? Yeah.
- [25:24]
B
I think we had some debate about the tax. Would they spend a little tax to keep this team together, keep this core together and they end up toeing the line between keeping Simons and upgrading the big spot while also getting below that tax line. So my initial view on it, my opinion was it felt like the tax move was the main motive in the Vuchovic trade and it was just convenient slash beneficial that at the same time you're also getting a rotation big out of that. I don't think Vuchovic was necessarily a guy that they targeted or loved or feel like is that missing piece. I think it was a good opportunity to shave off a significant amount of their tax bill and get the ball rolling toward getting below that line entirely. Now it would have been interesting if Minot was still that contributor promising prospect that he was earlier this season. Would you have done that? Obviously Boucher and Tillman, those were easy moves to make given where they were at their, you know, points in their careers at this stage. So you didn't have to do a ton to dodge attacks and that's why not devastated about that. I'm certainly curious where they're going to go with that into next year. But they're. They're thinking here is that they didn't need Simons and they need Vuchovic. They needed more help at center than they did at guard and that's why they made this move. So we will see if that's how this actually plays out. Joe's gonna have to be the one who actually executes these things. And again, good start through the first two games without Vuchevic even there. Reconfiguring the lineups and finding the right mix with Garza is that second big. Now you have three that you can work with and play together and all the rest. So I think John at the moment is underrating what Vuchevic could potentially bring here. But I do side with him pretty routinely when it comes to my questioning over where this team's payroll is going to be at on any given year. And you know, when you look back at those poor Zingis holiday years where they went way over, it was with the thinking that you're gonna have to get out of that pretty quickly once it's done.
- [27:35]
D
Yes, go ahead.
- [27:36]
B
It was the same deal this year where, yes, they're starting the season above the line and they're gonna see where that goes, but you also have the exit ramp with all the different contracts and movable assets that you brought in, expiring contracts, minimums that you can move pretty easily. They had a roadmap obviously to being able to get below that tax line. And honestly, given that they're second in the east and they did this, it's hard to imagine any scenario where they wouldn't have done it. You couldn't have done much better than this to begin the year. It's just that I think they feel like they're in a similarly competitive spot while getting below the tax rather than foregoing any potential upgrades that they could have made or any sales that they would have had to make given that this season didn't go well, if that's the way it went. So Zubash, if you did that, you're probably in the same similar spot money wise, given that he makes about what Vucovic makes. So I think it wasn't a matter of money, it was a matter of what kind of assets you were giving up into the future. And this team clearly only felt comfortable giving up a second for a rotation level big and they saw Zubac as something bigger than something better, but weren't able to get there asset wise. With the Pacers muted.
- [28:56]
D
Evan, I am muted. That's right. I, I hit the button, but didn't really work. So. But anyway, but you're right, It's. You're absolutely right. It's. When you look at how important these first round picks are and hitting on them, it's, it's extremely important. Like I was looking at their cap sheet today for next season and they're at 180ish million. But if you look at like the guys at the bottom of the roster, you have Peyton Pritchard at 7 million, you have Ugo at 2.9 million, you have Shireman at 2.7 million. Luca Garza 2.8 million. There's some sort of option here. I think it's Kate is option at 2.6 million. I'm pretty sure they're going to pick that up. Maybe they'll get an extension done with Keda during the off season. Jordan Walsh has an option. They're going to pick that up at 2.4 million. Amari Williams who just signed a 2.1 million. They're getting contributions from 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 guys. Six guys that are all making below $10 million. And like that's how, that's how you do this. Like this is incredible not luck because these guys work their ass off to compete and, and to, to being in every game. But it's like literally the per. Like best case scenario. Bobby Marks had this yesterday. Thursday. Entering the season, the Celtics are projected to pay $540 million between salaries and luxury tax cut penalties. This is before any of the trades that they made. As of today they're at 186.5 million. That's a, that's $350 million worth.
- [30:24]
B
Incredible.
- [30:27]
D
That is remarkable.
- [30:29]
B
Yeah.
- [30:29]
D
And they're in second place body and they're in second place like and I will wrap this here. Best case scenario obviously is what has happened this season. But in your opinion we talk about the repeater tax penalties that are that are look that lurking here for the Celtics and pending where they end up. It could be minimal damage or it could be a whole lot. When you look at you look at the Thunder who have a 250 million dollar cap role next season. Does this signal to you that this team next year will also try inducts to totally reset that repeater tax and be in the clear for 27:28?
- [31:16]
B
I think almost certainly if you're going to do that for this season, why not do it next year and get out of that mix. And listen, I know we're all skeptical of payroll cuts and tax avoiding and all that there is benefit two years from now in the 2728 season to being able to go deeper into the tax on your cap sheet if you get out of it next year. Now the danger in that is are you taking full advantage of one of the prime years of Brandon Tatum which you've already lost this year with Tatum being out for the most part you want to be able to do that next year. And I still think from the money position that they're in at the moment, as I look at it, they have a lot of Flexibility going into the summer. They are $30 million below the first apron. When you look at the tax, they have about, I'd say $21 million in wiggle room below the tax. So you have the full mid level that you can comfortably use. You can use one of the medium sized exceptions that you have. They created a massive trade exception in the Simon's deal that you could use a chunk of and I know they have some smaller ones too that they'll probably create here and there, so you can use those that would hard cap you at the first apron. But I don't see them going over the tax. I don't see them going over the first apron anyway next year. So you have a lot of roster building tools that you can utilize this summer, including that full mid level, which is about 15 million and still be comfortably below the tax, still be in a great position to field a roster that's both around Tatum, Brown, White, Hauser, Pritchard as well as Keita and potentially Vuchovic if he comes back on a team friendly deal at that point. So they can do a lot of different things this summer. And that's what makes you feel a little bit better about that tax line effectively being their cap, is that they have a lot of wiggle room below it. They have a lot of players signed already. I think the big question there is going to be do you try to get something done early with Kata? Because that'll obviously cut into some of that spending. If you can offer Keita 7 million or something and that takes, let's say 5 million off your mid level and then you're giving 10 million to someone else. I think you feel pretty good about that because you definitely want to try to lock up Keda for the long term next summer. If he finishes the season healthy and playing at the level that he is right now. I don't think you want to let that guy go to free agency in two seasons. Even if the benefit is that you get him at the minimum next year. I think it's probably worth it to give him a pay bump, get ahead on what he could potentially make later and lock him up for three, four years. If you can do that this summer. Because he does have a team option that they can decline and then write up a new contract with. So those are going to be your priorities this summer. Obviously you have your first round pick, as we've mentioned as well, that could probably be in like the mid to late twenties as it stands right now, but you got Uro Gonzalez at that spot last year and that ended up being a great pick given where they were slated in that first round. And Charman's looking pretty good at the moment too with what he's done as a contributor.
- [34:30]
D
Draft's a little bit deeper next year too, so it should be very interesting just so people understand good about this.
- [34:34]
B
Offseason even if there are financial restrictions clear clearly in place.
- [34:38]
D
Well, if we, if we look at the again we're going to get off this right after this. The tax threshold for next season is 201,690,000 and right now you have OKC at 250, Cleveland at 219, Orlando at 214, Denver 213, the Knicks at 205, the Pacers at 205, but they're, they're going to contend. And then the kings at 202, which is just the best. Everybody else is underneath that line at this moment. Now obviously rosters aren't filled out yet, so that's going to change over over the next couple of months. Obviously he's going to the off season. The Celtics again they are I think 11 players for next season at 180 million. So obviously it's gonna be some minimums in there, etc. Etc. But they'll have some room to play with and they'll have that non taxpayer mid level exception which again I think he's around 15 mil, which I think you're right. But just to give everybody sort of in a synopsis like they're they've, they're contending they're below the tax line, they have some flexibility offset next offseason. They're going to be able to potentially stay below two years in a row and still be competitive in a really bad Eastern Conference like this is this is amazing. And then have a great run for a Runway for the next offseason after that. But that's way down the line. Let's get into that. I do want to get into the Tatum stuff because you said Chris Mannix on I believe was the Celtics podcast for NBC Sports. Boston teased out that the yes, the it seems like the last hurdle for Tatum seems to be more of a mental one and that's kind of huge news. We've been teased throughout the entire season videos here and there of Tatum working one on one, getting his strength back, shooting, driving all those things. And it gets us all very excited to see what he's like physically. And it seems again according to Mannix, that he's at the last step. And so I ask you Bobby, what is what is your comfort level with Tatum coming back? Trying to ease him into this particular roster with a new front court piece with some different wing pieces for Jayson Tatum. Do you feel like that mental hurdle is going to be something that actually prohibits him or something that actually helps him out and they get back to normal pretty quickly here?
- [36:47]
B
I think it will be a challenge trying to integrate a minute Farrison we talked about a little bit yesterday that it's going to take some sacrifice on both Brown and Tatum's part. I think Brown will probably have to give up a couple shots to make this thing work initially and Tatum is going to have to acknowledge if he does come back this year that he's not going to be the point of attack, primary creator for this team that he was for, you know, all the years leading up to this. And that's not just because of Brown. I think Pritchard and White have done a great job in that role this year and should continue to get those opportunities and they should in turn be trying to make the game, the shots a little easier for Tatum. And so I don't think it makes all the sense in the world for him to be absorbing the double teams and extra pressure that he was in the past. And certainly he won't be playing the minutes or the roles necessarily that he was in the past. It's going to be a slow ramp up and I think that is part of that mental hurdle is knowing that you might have less minutes, less shots, less ways to contribute than you did previously. But I think what's going to help with that and what he needs to focus on is the ways he can help this roster, the rebounding which he's so good at, the passing and screening. There are a lot of different ways that he can contribute to this team even if he isn't at his best. And those things are much more impactful than what Walsh, Ironman, Minot brought to the table at that four position. Those guys did a great job throwing in there throughout the year, but they were effectively playing hustle, rebounding roles, hang a shot here or there. Even Tatum at 70%, you know, whatever number you want to throw out there would still be bringing so much more to the table than, you know, what those guys have been doing at those positions. So I think that's where what Joe's tried to reinforce by saying he could be a positive disruption. I think Jalen has done a good job with his latest comments of trying to be welcoming and understanding what Tatum's going through at the moment as all the teammates have and so it's interesting to hear and I, I know we'll talk to Brad today as well. You know, as we record this, I'll be interested to hear from him about what that mental hurdle is like for Tatum at the moment and what he's going through. Because usually we can glean a little bit from Brad and I think that's a big storyline down the stretch of the season. Here is if he's back, it's go time to some degree and obviously it's a high pressure circumstances. Manic said that adds to this mental hurdle that he's trying to get over at the moment. They're pushing into the playoffs. They have expectations to some degree again and they will once he comes back. Certainly. I also think knowing Tatum, knowing who he is and how much he wants to play and how much he wants to be part of the mix here, I still mean that we'll see him. Even with the reporting, even with some of the doubt that's been cast on that, I think we'll see some amount of Tatum down the stretch here and does it take a little longer? Are they more cautious with how they go about it? Do they say at X date if you're not ready to go by this time, we're just going to call it? I think those are all possibilities. But still feels to me like we could see him this year and I have no idea. But just again, Evan, he doesn't like to sit out and I think that's ultimately going to prevail, especially if his body's in a good place at this point. There's still some time for him to get over that mental hurdle, whatever that is.
- [40:07]
D
I wonder if, if Brad can be a little helpful here because they went through the Gordon Hayward experience and how earth shattering that was. I mean Tatum was here for that. It's not like they weren't all around for watching Gordon Hayward's ankle explode.
- [40:21]
B
And I'm pretty sure that has informed this comeback to some degree for Tatum because remember what the comeback was like for Hayward the following year.
- [40:29]
D
Yeah, I mean it took a while and then if you. We had Grandy on I think right before the, the bubble or maybe after it and he was like that was some of the best basketball they ever played was when Gordon Hayward started like really feel himself and then he got hurt again and everyone was the same.
- [40:46]
B
I mean it took, remember that was well over two seasons after the injury, the late stages of the 2020 year. So we've heard similar things about Achilles. You can come back, you can play, but you're not going to be yourself for least a year. And that's mid May, that mark. So that's the concern, I think, for he and the team is that he comes back, he's not himself, the criticism falls on him. He's blamed for the team not continuing at the trajectory that they've been on to this point. And you can see that playing out right if he comes back and struggles. So that does have to be a consideration when it comes to his long term role on this team. Like you want to have Tatum back down the line, most importantly, and if him coming back too soon destroys his mentality, his confidence, any number of things, you do want to be cautious about that. And I'm sure he'll get criticism for that and that he can't just come back and be strong and power through and blah, blah, blah. But if we're looking at pragmatically, and that's the reality of the situation, and the Celtics have said this too, like we want years and years of Tatum to come, you do have to take that into account. And I don't think anyone would be too upset if he says, I'm just not ready. And I think he was honest about how he felt in that moment and not confused people. If he kept it more vague and there wasn't a reason behind it and we were just all speculating that maybe it is physical, I think people would feel a lot better about it, right or wrong. At the same time, he had a moment of honesty and reflection that I thought was good to hear. And so, yeah, I feel like I was probably a little critical of him in that moment. I know we were as a show, but it does make sense just from a basketball standpoint. If you're a fan, like, do you want Tatum to come back and lose that confidence, that belief in himself as a positive contributor for this team, or do you want to wait a little longer and have him work through a full training camp with less pressure, build up toward his role that he had before and come back comfortably? I think it's an obvious answer here, especially with the team playing so well without him this year.
- [43:11]
D
Yeah, the Celtics have a couple of games coming up. They have the Miami Heat as we record on a Friday, later today, 7:30. All these games are at home, by the way. The Heat, you have the New York game Sunday and then the Chicago Bulls on Wednesday right before the All Star break. So you get a little ramp up here for Vuchevic against a really good team in New York that they're going to have to probably play later on if everything goes right in the postseason. Chicago obviously has a million guards. They don't know what they're doing. Miami's had an interesting season, but it should be a fun next three games before the All Star break. And Jaylen Brown gets to play in the All Star game and everybody else gets some time off. So the next time we'll come at you probably right, right after that Chicago game. So we'll probably see about a week from today, preview the All Star break. We'll preview the second half as the Celtics go out west, Golden State, Lakers, Phoenix, Denver. Right when you come back from the All Star break, that's going to be a, a tough one. That last game in Denver is the second night of a back to back. So you're going to have Sunday against the Lakers. We have Monday off, Tuesday against the Suns, who have been excellent this year. Jordan not held the season coaching that team.
- [44:18]
B
Isn't that something? That first game back and going state. They'll be going against Horford and Porzingis.
- [44:24]
D
Yeah, that'll be fun actually. That's going to make that game way more fun. I never, I didn't actually think about the Porzingis part of that. It's gonna make it way more fun. But a lot going on here with the Celtics as we get ready for the second, the, the unofficial second half of the season.
- [44:37]
B
It's a big one on Sunday. You're tied in the standings with New York. It feels like they have been for weeks and weeks now they're tied in their matchups. Obviously Knicks killed them in that first game in New York and then Celtics had maybe their most impressive win of the season in the second game in Boston. So tiebreaker on the line in the standings as well as another latest sense of where both teams are at. And I think Detroit has earned their status as the tops team in the east and the favorite obviously beating the Celtics three out of four times as well. And they have quite a gap on that one seed. It'd be great to get the two seed and be able to be in home court position for a second round, especially if it is against New York. And you know, put yourself in a better position in terms of your path through the east as well because if you fall down the four, obviously you're going to be in that Detroit bracket. So this is a big one as far as regular season games go. And it feels like both teams are at relatively full strength at the moment as well, which they haven't been in other games at this point. So this should be an awesome one, especially leading into the Pats 12:30 Sunday afternoon in Boston. Boston, New York, there's a lot of things that are going to make that a fun environment.
- [45:50]
D
Yeah, Sunday's gonna either be awesome or sucked.
- [45:55]
B
It's the biggest Boston sports day in a little bit.
- [45:58]
D
Yeah, I know. I'm. I'm jacked up. I'm nervous as hell, but I'm jacked up. Should be a good time. That's Bobby Manning. Catch him at real Bob Manning on X. He's all over CLS media. Between the Garden Report and Celtics Daily and a kajillion other things. He'll be interviewing Brad and the rest of the crew at media day today after the trade deadline. So stay tuned for more stuff from him and us here on CNS Media. Again, today's show powered by Prize Picks 50 instantly in lineups when you use the code CLNS after your first $5 lineup, which is pretty awesome. Coffin will be back next week ready to rock and roll for again, the unofficial second half of the NBA season for Bobby Manning. I'm Emma Valenti. You guys have a wonderful big game weekend. Enjoy Sunday. We'll see you next week, folks. Ciao.
- [46:42]
B
Peace.