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- [00:01]
Celsius Energy Advertiser
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- [00:25]
Cedric Maxwell
we heard you. Nine years of bring back the snack wrap and you've won. But maybe you should have asked for more. Say hello to the hot panty snack wrap. Now you've really won. Go to McDonald's and get it while you can.
- [00:40]
Adam Kaufman
Today is Thursday, February 19th and this is Celtics beat on the CLNS Media Network, the leading online provider of audio video coverage of the Boston Celtics. I'm adam Kaufman. Episode 664 features of course a family member here of CLNS but also the MVP of the 1981 NBA Finals, the Cedric Maxwell.
- [01:01]
Evan Valenti
I'm Evan Valenti. Good morning and I'm Valenti. Today's show is powered by Prize Picks. Prize Picks is the official daily Fantasy Partner of CLS Media. Download the app today, use the promo code CLNs get $50 laps if you play $5.
- [01:26]
Adam Kaufman
Hey everybody, welcome in it is selfie speed of course here on the CLNS Media network. Always appreciate, appreciate when you find us on the CLNS YouTube page, specifically the all access page or via audio download rate review. Most importantly, subscribe. We are joined by one of our favorites. Always grateful for him taking the time when he does so especially to begin a four game West coast trip. The MVP of the 1981 NBA Finals. A man who has the Cedric Maxwell podcast. A long time broadcaster of course on the Celtics radio network and occasionally on television as well. The one, the only Cedric Maxwell. Max, how are you buddy?
- [02:06]
Cedric Maxwell
I am doing fine gentlemen. Just happy to be with you. I know we are, we're. It's 10 o'. Clock, it was 10 o' clock where you're at and it's 7:30. I think, you know, something like that. We're three hours behind you. So happy to be on with you right now from San Francisco.
- [02:23]
Adam Kaufman
Well, and after a long day of traveling, I was just in San Francisco for the super bowl for a little over a week and so yeah, we're, we're probably overlapping some of those spots.
- [02:32]
Cedric Maxwell
Is it painful though? Downtown San Francisco has just. Oh my God.
- [02:37]
Adam Kaufman
It's not, I mean I haven't been
- [02:39]
Cedric Maxwell
here years and, and everything on the main street. I think it's a market or whatever the Name of the street here is just gone. They had a huge mall that was downtown. It is, it's closed down and all these stores, it looked like abandoned buildings down. It was, it was just sad being down here. We're at the Four Seasons, so great hotel. But you step outside the hotel, the guy told me, be back in before nine o', clock, buddy. He said, be back in. I don't care how, how tall and big you are, but be back in.
- [03:12]
Adam Kaufman
You're not kidding, man. When I was out there, and again, I was out there a little over a week and you know, the nature of super bowl week for anyone that has not had the opportunity to cover one of those or to, you know, go out and spend that week and do all the fancy stuff is you're kind of burning the candle on both ends. You know, you're working hard during the day, you're going out to parties and stuff like that at night. And the thing about, you know, San Francisco is it's such a. In terms of where everything is, the city is so spread out. And so there was, we were staying over on, off of 7th and you know, a little bit, a little bit further west than you necessarily want to go at night when you're walking around to your point. And there was like, there was one night where a couple of the guys that I was, you know, we were hanging out and, and they like, all right, we're gonna, we're gonna go off to a bar and, and grab a couple of drinks. And this is maybe, I don't know, 10 o' clock at night. We had, had dinner, went out to Chinatown and I said, I'm gonna go back to the hotel for a little bit, I'm gonna park it for a little and maybe I'll meet you out. Gets to be about 11, 11:30. I'm thinking, okay, I'm, I'm ready to rally. You know, it's like an eight minute walk to the bar or something like that, Max. And I, I just kind of, I stepped outside and I went, no, I think I'm gonna stay behind. I'm gonna hang at the hotel. I don't feel like I need to make this walk by myself right now.
- [04:30]
Cedric Maxwell
You know, there was, it was a look that was probably very smart when you part. It was telling me that, I guess it was a football player that was here that got robbed 49 or they got shot in the chest, almost died.
- [04:45]
Evan Valenti
Right?
- [04:45]
Cedric Maxwell
Yeah, it was somebody former Patriot. Yeah. So it's just, just kind of crazy. But, you know, we're Here in San Francisco. And you know, beginning this four game road trip, a tough one. This stretch is really tough. San Francisco, the LA Lakers, L.A. bakers. Then you go from that, you go to Phoenix and then you end up in Denver and then I think we come back home and I think we have Milwaukee. So it's a eight game stretch of eight game games here, which is a stretch which I think is going to be one of the toughest of the season.
- [05:20]
Adam Kaufman
Not just that, Max. If the Celtics are going to play into the, you know, the, as we like to refer to it, The Phil Jackson 4020 rule, Boston can't afford a loss in its next five, has to go five and oh, before losing a 20th game to be considered a, a viable contender based on what history tells us in the modern era.
- [05:39]
Cedric Maxwell
Well, I guess that's possible, but I think that what we're looking at is the bigger Fisher fry right now. What happens if Jason Tatum comes back? I think, you know, let's, let's, let's cut to the chase because I think that if Jason Tatum is going to come back, you know, you did some, you moved around a couple of people, you got Mooch I think is a, a good big who's going to help you in the post. But if Tatum's coming back, it has to be in some place between 15 and 20 games to acclimate himself, acclimate himself to the speed of the game. And so it's getting close around that area. We got what this end of this month and then you got all of March and then you got that small part of April.
- [06:27]
Adam Kaufman
So you're 54 right now.
- [06:29]
Cedric Maxwell
Yeah. Sometimes in those first couple of weeks, that first week of March is going to have to be the Tatum on deck.
- [06:37]
Adam Kaufman
So maybe that's, that's where we start with the Tatum stuff. We can do a lot of. I, I do want to look back on All Star Weekend and talk to you about some of that much later in the show. But in terms of, you know, like you said, why, why do we have the links. Yeah, there. I have thoughts, Max. I have thoughts. That's why we'll, we'll get into that stuff. But you're right, Jason Tatum, there's no bigger story as it relates to the Celtics maybe in the NBA right now than just all the theater that surrounds Tatum. You know, first you have that game against Philly on March, first moved into prime time on Peacock. And then we find out, of course, Peacock, NBC, same thing that Tatum has this deal now with NBC with this weekly Release this documentary. This five parter Part one just dropped, chronicling his comeback. And everyone now believes that things are orchestrated, that this is.
- [07:32]
Cedric Maxwell
Where is Bigfoot? Where's Bigfoot?
- [07:35]
Adam Kaufman
What do you think of all this, though? What do you think of all this?
- [07:38]
Cedric Maxwell
I think it, you know, I don't know. I think it's going to be dependent on if he's healthy or not. But I think that you still look at it as when Jason Tatum is coming back, are they moving games around so you could come back at this? He's going to have to be healthy. And I talked to Brad Stevens about this and I talked to one of the team doctors. He said his legs, his Achilles now is healed, but it's. And I asked him, so what's the difference? He said it's the muscle in the leg. He said the strength in the leg. That's what has to happen. And now that he started playing some of these games and playing with the G League and doing some of these other things, I think that he's going to. He's going to show improvement. My, this is what I say, and this is me. Jason Tatum isn't afraid, but he's apprehensive. And what I mean by that, I remember me coming off an injury and I'm no Jason Tatum. I'm not an all star, all these other things that go along with it. But when you're a guy who you get hurt, you want to come back. He wants to come back as Jason Tatum. What he's going to find out is there going to be some stumbles and they're going to be some trips along the way until he starts to feel like himself again. Some of the things you're going to try to do, you might not be able to do right away, but that stuff will come. The sooner he gets on that horse again, I think the better off he's going to be. So that's, that's my take on it, as long as he's healthy. But, you know, I know for a fact when I played and I was hurt, I came back and there was doubt in my mind, like, okay, can I, can I do what I did before? And then when I got traded and when I first got hurt and came back, I felt nothing in my leg at all because I was rushed back. In Tatum's case, he's not being rushed back, but in his mind, he's going to have to jump over that psychological hurdle of getting on the floor, maybe even getting some failures. But then eventually he's going to build it up step by step and get back to where he wants to date.
- [09:52]
Evan Valenti
Do you think that'll take about 15 to 20 games? I mean, given the fact that you're getting ready for what is a different type of basketball in the postseason, It's a little more physical. You know, you have teams that plan for you all the time. They can kind of work on things and tweak things. My biggest point has always been it's hard to bring a guy back for the hardest type of basketball game of the season, 15 to 20 games. Is that a good enough sample size to get you feeling good about yourself again, you think?
- [10:17]
Cedric Maxwell
Yeah, I think it is. I don't think you could do it with five or six or whatever it is. That doesn't help you. But if you can get 20 games under your belt, then you start to get the routine, you start to get acclimated. I look at him as a player, too, and understand that as much as he is with the Boston Celtics, a lot of it isn't. He's with the Boston Celtics because until you get into that line of fire, till you get on the floor playing with your teammates, doing all those little things, we can learn, hey, remember when I elbowed that guy and I did this and I did that and. And I. I watch how you came off that pick and I set the back pick and I cut, and you didn't see those things have to happen. He's not in that right now. He's looking at that game and going, wow, Jalen's playing really well, man. I know. And he said a couple of things. I don't want to come back and upset the apple cart, but if you're going to win a championship, he has to understand that he has to be on that apple cart. He's that damn apple that's going to take them to that next level if they. If they're going to get there.
- [11:21]
Adam Kaufman
So let's. Well, even before we get to this, let's just. Yes or no, is Jason Tatum playing again this year? Do you believe that we will see him?
- [11:32]
Cedric Maxwell
Yes.
- [11:33]
Adam Kaufman
Okay, so we're all in line with that. There are still some skeptics out there, but all three of us, we believe he is going to play regardless of the win, and we can do the what's the date on your bingo card and all of that stuff I've mentioned. March 4th has been the one that I've been chasing all season long, that I've had circled. We'll see if it actually happens. But he. He comes back, has hopefully enough time for the ramp up, and all of a sudden, come playoff time, everybody is on the same page. There's a buildup, though, to getting on that page without a training camp, without a preseason, without, you know, truly meaningless games. All of these things as you alluded to. I think apprehension is the right word for it, because I wonder, and as you said, he has come out and said this stuff himself, whether with the media Pivot podcast through reports, he wonders kind of how it fits, how does it work where he doesn't totally know or trust his body. And you have Jalen having a career year in terms of making this work. Is this more. Is the onus more on Jalen? Is it more on Jason? Is it more on Joe and the coaching staff?
- [12:38]
Cedric Maxwell
I think everybody, everybody's going to have a part of this. The doctors, the medical staff, the fans, the media, himself, his mom, all of his fans, because everybody's going to have an expectation of who he is and what he's going to be able to do. The doctors are going to be saying it one way, going, wow, well, I'm really. Their fans are going to be like, I want to see Jason Tatum do what he did before. Might not be able to do that right away. His teammates are going to have to understand, hey, we want to get this guy back in, but at the same time, we're in a flow and we have to play the kind of game that's helping us win basketball games. So there's a lot of combinations that are going to have to come into play for him to get back to where he's at. And I believe he really will. But again, I think that that's the word I will use. I know he's not afraid, but as an athlete, he's apprehensive about what he can do and when he's going to be able to do what he wants to do. He said it. I want to be Jason Tatum again. It's going to take you a little time to be Jason Tatum coming off an injury like that. I don't think he's just going to jump back on the floor and go, you know, 100 miles an hour. And how many minutes are the Celtics on line to play? Is it going to be 15? Is it going to be 10? What's going to be the ramp up? What's going to be the first game when he steps on the floor? What's that going to be like? I mean, the roof is going to blow up. The place when he comes, when he steps on the floor, the first time. I can't even imagine what his stomach's gonna. I hope he doesn't have any kind of, like, tacos or beef. He'll have something round going down his leg. Because it is going to be a nervous time for everybody out there in
- [14:20]
Adam Kaufman
the Paul Pierce wheelchair.
- [14:21]
Cedric Maxwell
Oh, my God. It's gonna be. It's going to be unbelievable. You know, I can't even imagine. I remember stepping back on the floor for the first time when I came off an injury and I knew what the fans wanted, I knew what I wanted to do, but my body said no, no, no. I remember Brent Musburger asked me a question. I played a game against Detroit and I might have had about 22 points. And he came to me after the game. They bought me out and they said, well, Max, you're back. And the mother said, no, I'm not. No, no. I didn't feel I was back. I wanted to know how he's going to feel because again, we're completely different. I talk about Jason Tatum, who he is, but as an athlete, we're on the same page when we talk about coming back and be a little apprehensive about what you can do, when you can do and how you can do it.
- [15:13]
Adam Kaufman
How can that guy, that Tatum that you're describing, who isn't full strength Tatum, the one that we don't know what he's going to look like, the one that is apprehensive, the one that might be in his head a little bit and he's trying to figure out his body, how can that guy still help these Celtics win?
- [15:30]
Cedric Maxwell
Try not to do too much. Try not to take over games doing what he's not. His natural ability. What is he great at doing right now? He can be a great facilitator. He can probably still be a great scorer. But the thing that they need a lot of is maybe rebounding basketball because there are times when they have not rebounded well. And he's a big time rebounder. So there are a lot of things that he can bring to the table. The other guys on this team can't. His vision to be a passer. So I. I don't. I see him. I see these things happening, but I think it's going to be building blocks.
- [16:06]
Evan Valenti
One of the things that's been kind of like a interesting talking point lately is kind of the vulnerability of Tatum sharing some of the things that's been going on in his head. You know, he's had a couple of quotes that have popped out about, you know, he doesn't want to screw the team up, et cetera, et cetera. Lot of people this week, you know, gave him a little bit of flack for, I guess, having a documentary series come out before he plays, you know. You know, some people say, do we really need this type of content? Do we want this type of content? I will be, I'll tell you.
- [16:38]
Adam Kaufman
I do.
- [16:38]
Evan Valenti
I, I, I, I care for the guy because I've watched him since he was 18 years old to now. I, I care about him. Kaufman, you care about this kind of stuff. We're a little bit different. What do you make of this? What do you make of a guy having a five part documentary series come out before he starts to play? Is this something where you say like, and maybe we're over sharing or it's like, hey man, look, there's people getting ready to cut you a check to
- [17:03]
Cedric Maxwell
have this, this access.
- [17:05]
Evan Valenti
And this is just taking advantage of the business.
- [17:08]
Cedric Maxwell
It's, it's taking advantage of the business. But at the same time, I don't think I would want to have that spotlight on me. Is already going to be there. But you want to magnify it that much more. I remember looking at and I just glimpsed it. I was doing something else. But the All Star Game came on and then they were doing the DOC on Tatum. I was like, damn. I mean, this is the All Star Game and we're talking about Jason Tatum coming back. That to me, that's who he is, the essence of who he is in this league and what he means to this team and what he means to the NBA. You know, you can't do a lot of documentaries on a lot of guys after they're coming back from injury. I mean, what happened to those other two guys we talk about that, you know, that are Halliburton and Lillard. Yeah. And we have, we heard, what have we heard about them at all?
- [17:59]
Adam Kaufman
Dave still got his three point shot.
- [18:01]
Cedric Maxwell
I mean, but we haven't really heard that much about either one of those guys. No, but, but Tatum has filled the airwaves because he's an MVP type player and man, what a storybook it would be if he's able to come back and if he's Tatum at, if he can be Tatum at 80%, man. Boy, it takes you, it, it. I, I was talking to Ricky Mahorn, who is the broadcaster for the Detroit Pistols. He said, you know what, Max? That's one of the things that, that's one of the things that makes me afraid. Tatum coming back and Being who Tatum is right now, right now I'm okay with, you know, playing the Celtics, but if Tatum comes back and he's close to where he's at, boy, that puts them above or online right now, or what Detroit is able to do.
- [18:51]
Adam Kaufman
I just, maybe I'm wrong. By all means, disagree. I don't think that Tatum is doing this documentary that people are out there complaining about those who are anyway. And I could, like ev. You, you said like you care about them and you want to watch it and you want this content. I care about them. Like you said. I, I didn't watch part one of this five part doc. I, I don't care. I, I don't need it in my life. I'm rooting him on. I want to see him back. I, I don't need the extra stuff like just put in your time, work hard, bust your ass, can't wait to see on the floor. That's what I care about. I'm not consuming every little piece of Tatum content. Every interview, the pivot pot. Like, I, I don't need it all. I got enough going on in my life that I don't need to absorb
- [19:35]
Cedric Maxwell
all that is surrounding. We don't wait, but we don't need, we don't need Cardi B. We're not bringing Cardi B in.
- [19:41]
Adam Kaufman
I don't need, I don't need it all. I don't need it all. But all of that said, Max, I don't think knowing Tatum as we do, or any athlete, quite frankly, in his position, I don't think you agree to do this five part documentary if you think there's a chance you're not coming back.
- [20:02]
Cedric Maxwell
Oh, yeah, yeah.
- [20:04]
Adam Kaufman
I mean, it's not building up to, oh, what a great story. See you next year.
- [20:10]
Cedric Maxwell
The approach for advertisers is definitely he's coming back. And I know they're banking on it. I'm sure they've talked to doctors, they've talked to Tatum and they have an idea, idea of what they want. Now. I don't know if you will get it. I always say this, people in hell will. Nice water. Don't mean they gonna get it. But this is one of the things that, that I'm sure by putting their money into this documentary, they're not doing it just to say, well, there's Jason Tatum right now on the bench and street clubs. They want to have this story and they want to sell this product. So I believe that that is happening. It is, it's, it's a little, it's a little something. I mean, what Evan is saying about. Yeah, I want to see this stuff and, you know, I'm feeling this way about it. I'm kind of on your page, buddy. Like, I. For me, there's enough spotlight on me already. I don't need to turn the damn bulbs up. The damn 200 right now. There's people about 60. They're already 60. That 200 a little bit too much for me. So for me personally, that's what I'll say. But for him, he's a, he's a shrewd young man who's a businessman, and he's going to. He. Before he walks away from this game, he's going to make. He's going to be over a billion dollars. So. Oh, yeah, he's taking advantage of an opportunity that probably wouldn't have been there if you are. If he's healthy right now. Are you trying to run a documentary on Tatum at all? So I think he's taking advantage of maybe what's there.
- [21:49]
Adam Kaufman
And oh, oh, by the way, like, I. Well, have you, have you been around him at all, like, in recent months? Like, yeah, so I have not. So I'm, I'm judging this off of videos that we see on social media and that type of thing. He looks bigger. Like, he looks, he looks like he's, he's, you know, taking this opportunity to not only, you know, work to get his Achilles, like, right, but he's been working on the upper body. Like, he, he just looks bigger than he did the last time we saw.
- [22:18]
Cedric Maxwell
It was scary because I remember walking up to him the other day and looking at him, and here I am at 6, 8. But I felt like I was looking up at this dude and it's like, it's like I'm going to be looking you eye to eye, you know, bulk to bulk. You know, I'm not the muscle thing, but, you know, he does, he does look bigger. It looks like he's been working out. His trainer, Nick, who has been around him all the time, has had him. And the thing that Tatum mentioned over and over again, he said, I haven't worked six days out of seven every, every since then to say, I'm not going to come back. So I think that when he kind of threw that flag in and, and messed the world up a little bit when he said, I'm not really sure, I think again, that is, that's nerves and, and not, not afraid, but just apprehensive about looking at your teammate Brown playing the way he has this year, looking at this team who have been overachievers, we'll all agree with that this year. Oh yeah, I remember, I remember one thing coming out of the tunnel for the first game and Joe Missoula said to me, max, we're gonna muck this thing up. And what he meant, he's gonna have these guys playing hard. But I any, did anybody have him with this record right now? Did any of us after the first three games when they lost, were we all saying, well, April 15th or whenever it is, we out of here? We no, there were out of here.
- [23:55]
Adam Kaufman
I feel like most people even in their, you know, like wildest dreams had them in the like 45, 48 wins.
- [24:06]
Cedric Maxwell
Yeah,
- [24:08]
Adam Kaufman
never mind. I mean this, this is looking like a 50 win team. It should be a 50 win team. And I mean I, I there. What was their win total? I'm trying to remember, Ev. It was like 40 and a half or 41 and a half. Something like that. It was, you know, people were expecting a ballpark 500.
- [24:24]
Cedric Maxwell
Yeah.
- [24:25]
Adam Kaufman
Team, you know, so, yeah, what they're doing has been incredible. And I, I in your conversations with Brad and like you said, you, you know, you talked about the leg and the, you know, the muscle and the most important parts and all these things and there are just so many hoops to jump through. There are so many, you know, T's you gotta cross, dots, you know, eyes, you got a dot. All this stuff of it drives me crazy listening to all the conversation, Max, that, that exists on, on your traditional sports radio, TV coverage of, you know. Well, you can't rush him back. You can't. There's no you, it's not even worth mouth breathing about. There's no universe that's happening. He's not being rushed back. He's going to get medically cleared. There's no risk of re injury. The doctors are going to be fearing when they say he can come back.
- [25:19]
Cedric Maxwell
Stop, stop that, stop that. You don't know. Nobody knows what can happen, you know, to anybody. When you talk about an entry, that's why they call injuries. No, of course that's why people say they're going out. Why do you go out and get car car insurance? Not because you said, I'm going to have a wreck tomorrow, but you said I need car insurance. I got car insurance. Make you get car insurance. Jason Tatum is. And then talking to Brad. This is my conversation. We talk about the strength in his leg. I've talked about, talk to some of the doctors about that. Only thing that Brad And I talked about was just the fact that he has to be healthy.
- [25:58]
Adam Kaufman
Right? You want.
- [25:59]
Cedric Maxwell
They want to see him healthy. So I'm not putting anything out that Brad said, you know, this. No, no, what Brad. What Brad said is he has to be healthy and to come back. I remember him saying. It was so funny. We were talking about Simons before Simons got traded, and me and Brad was just sitting there that Brad said, boy, he's done everything you could ask him to do, and, boy, he has really worked hard. And then the next day, he was trading. I was like, damn, so. So it is a business. And then I talked to Brad about it. We laughed because he said one of the most distant, tasteful things I've had to do. And I think. And I always remember that the whole thing with Marcus. Smart.
- [26:41]
Adam Kaufman
Sure.
- [26:42]
Cedric Maxwell
When Brad and I said, boy, that was ballsy. I remember when, you know, Marcus got married and Brad had traded him, and Brad ended up showing up at the wedding. I'm like, damn, you got some balls, brother. You really got a set of them. But I think that Brad's always been forthcoming and honest. He is not. He doesn't. He's not braggadocious. He's very cautious in what he says. He's very, very measured in how he's. How he's coming about this, coming with this thing. I don't think he's painting a. A picture that Jason Tatum is going to step on the floor and all of a sudden be Superman. What he wants Jason Tatum to do is come back. Very much. Like I'm saying right now, there are hurdles to be crossed, and you're not going to cross those hurdles until you play against them. Not. Not taken away from the G League guys. But until you play against those first stringers that are on all these NBA teams who are going to want to test you from the time you get out there, because I remember when I was hurt, I swear the guy looked like. The guy looked right at my leg and said, oh, that's the leg right there. Okay, I'm going right at your left leg. So there are people going to test them and. And find out where he's at.
- [28:00]
Evan Valenti
I. I would say quickly, before, you know, if we have to jump off this, but the one thing that
- [28:07]
Adam Kaufman
Joe
- [28:08]
Evan Valenti
Missoula can be very helpful in getting Tatum's confidence back to where it needs to be for him to be, like, a pretty serviceable player here. I. I questioned. Not questioned, but I. I pushed the. You know, this year is going to be the year we find out About Joe Mazzulla, if he's really a special coach or if he's just some guy.
- [28:25]
Cedric Maxwell
I'm waiting for this one. This ought to be good. I, I, I've never heard how can Joe make him be in that. Because nobody can do it.
- [28:34]
Evan Valenti
Except yeah, there's a but they're part of the coach is connecting with your players. Right. And finding ways to make them to be more successful by telling them things or putting them in certain situations. Right. Isn't that part of being.
- [28:45]
Cedric Maxwell
You can, you can talk, you can talk to a guy oh you want, but instead, until he steps out on that floor, it's just hard for me to see how Joe can actually put him in, in a position of succeeding without him not being confident. You know what I'm saying? Because it's not one of those things where, where, well, I'm gonna put you in right now, Tatum. I'll let you play against the second tier tier guys and you maybe score 10 points against those, against those guys. He's going to have him in the line of fire and he's gonna have to decide when to take him out because we know like, you know how they, what happens when a horse breaks his leg where those horses break the, they always say, well, let's go back and let's mend that leg up and let's do something to. It never works.
- [29:34]
Adam Kaufman
Yeah, usually they become glue.
- [29:36]
Cedric Maxwell
All those horses, all the horses they got, hey, that's wrong with my leg. I should be able to. And, and they break it again. And not saying he's going to break his leg again to do anything like that, but I don't think anybody understands how that pressure is on a top shelf athlete when he is coming back from an injury and especially when he's never had to deal one with one before.
- [30:05]
Adam Kaufman
I think where Ev was going anyway is that Joe just sort of seems like one of those master motivators, you know, a, like, you know, we used to always, We've probably done it with you too. Like we used to joke around when Brad was coaching, refer to him as, as, you know, a life coach. You know, Joe very much seems in that same vein that, you know, in the same way that like you go back to, to the off season, like, oh, Tatum has to go through this. Joseph gets to, gets to go through this. Like his perspective on, on life and obstacles and trying situations and everything. It feels like Joe is the kind of guy that can get your head to a place that it needs to be maybe faster than some other coaches.
- [30:53]
Cedric Maxwell
Let Me tell you, give you. Give you a glimpse of Joe. It was last year in the playoffs, and Joe asked me, so I want you to come in and talk to my players. I came in, talked during them, you know, wonder sessions, and that was during the playoffs when they. And then they lost to the Knicks that very next night. Joe looked at me the next day, said, well, you'll never be talking to my players again. So Joe is going to try whatever he can, can to motivate his players to put them in a position. I think that's going to be the toughest thing because the player has to have wrapped his head around what he can do. And I remember saying, gosh, you know, I know what I. I know what I want to do. I know how I feel. I know when I came back, I couldn't do it physically. I couldn't do it because I was rushed back. Tatum has not been rushed back. If Tatum wanted to sit out the entire year, I. I don't think any of us would have said, oh, okay, he'll be back next year. But he's worked to get himself in a position to come back this year, and we should all applaud that, but we all should make sure that we understand they're going to be stepping stones that a player has to cross. I mean, I don't know who has kids between you guys. Hand up. All right. You have kids. You remember them. First couple steps your child took, like, damn. You know, he's really. Oh, he failed. Oh, yeah, he's doing that. Oh, gosh. Hold your bottle. He drops it. It's just like watching your child progress. Sure. To the point where you're like, oh, wow. You know, wow.
- [32:42]
Adam Kaufman
He's.
- [32:43]
Cedric Maxwell
He's really human being. He's. He's, you know, doing some things right now on his own, and it's really cool to see. That's going to be the stepping stones that Tatum's going to have to get through that first. I mean, can you imagine the first shot he takes? I. You know, what, what. What.
- [32:58]
Adam Kaufman
What's.
- [32:59]
Cedric Maxwell
What's our promotion right now? Who's. Who's our. Who's our promoter? Can you put some of him missing the rim? Is that with his first job? I'd be willing to put someone from 15. It's going 18 team.
- [33:15]
Adam Kaufman
He.
- [33:15]
Cedric Maxwell
He might not touch it. He's gonna be so jacked up. I mean, that first shot, that might be one of the things.
- [33:21]
Adam Kaufman
Yeah, I hope it's a layup.
- [33:23]
Cedric Maxwell
Does Tatum make his first shot? That's. That would be one of those things. I think prospect should look at how
- [33:30]
Adam Kaufman
entire you at this point because it's gone on for years. But the fact that it's going on right now where every little thing is interpreted insinuated. You know, Jaylen Brown puts out the tweet applauding the success of of where they are as a team right now in comparison to where they were at the all star break last year. And that's derived as a shot at Tatum. Tatum puts out a tweet talking about how proud he is of himself and his comeback. And that's viewed as by some as you know, mockery of the Jalen tweet. A shot at Jalen. People are. Are hell bent on pitting these two against one another and it, I mean it's got to drive you nuts, especially as someone who's so close to it.
- [34:13]
Cedric Maxwell
Yeah, it, it really does. When you think about who the two players are. They want the best for each other. And I thought we had put that behind us when they won the championship and one talked about the other other talk. They both were like, okay, I couldn't have done it without him. He couldn't have done. It was really cool to see. But now that Tatum has been out and Brown has become a all NBA player, none of us saw that. We saw him being, you know, he was the top 10 or 12, you know, player. But did we think that Brown is going to be one of the top MVP when they start chanting his name? We didn't see that. And for the regular season, so Brown is going up this huge mountain and the thing that we looked at, we were thinking could Brown carry this team without Tatum? And he's accepted that challenge and he's there. But I am like you. I'm tired. I'm tired of all the stuff about it and re trying to read things in that these guys don't like each other. This guy made a tweet about this and Jaylen Brown said, oh my God, I'm having a big best season. This is, this is one of my favorite seasons. Although you won the championship, but his success would be so much. Maybe he's just being proud of the fact that White is. Is developed and Pritchard has developed and Hugo and all these other guys you have on your team right now have gotten you to be one of the the upper echelon teams in the NBA. Well, when none of us really believed that was going to happen this year.
- [35:54]
Evan Valenti
Yeah, it's been remarkable. I the Jaylen season is like the best version of Jaylen, I think we've ever gotten. And it's been for longer than we've ever gotten it. Like sometimes with Jaylen, he'd have these really amazing out of, you know, body experience games, but then he'd come crashing down. The best part about this season for Jaylen, in my opinion, two things. One, the consistency's been there from the first game of the year till now. And like the stuff that he's. He at least takes pride on the defensive end. Like, I don't know if he's the best two way player in the league, but I appreciate the fact that he talks about it. You know what I mean?
- [36:28]
Cedric Maxwell
Yeah, he's. He's gone up against guys. Look what he did with Kawhi Leonard, who is really right now back. And Kawhi Leonard, he went in and destroyed Kawhi Leonard in his building, dropped 50 on him and guarded him at the same time. He wants to take these challenges of being a, A defender now even. Look what. Even, even when he was playing against Luca in the finals, he took some of the steam out of Luca with some of the steals he made in that court, pressuring them all over the floor, you know, doing all these little things and, and made Luca look, you know, like one of the guys out on the street, and he was just that effective against him. So there's so many things about Brown that I love about this year, but I'm. I'm just so amped up about that first time that Eddie goes in and says Jason. And now, you know Jason. Jason Tatum from Duke.
- [37:25]
Evan Valenti
Do you.
- [37:26]
Cedric Maxwell
So you. Obviously Jalen. So Jalen has to be. Jason Tatum has to be announced last, right? In that.
- [37:36]
Adam Kaufman
I mean, assuming he's starting, I don't think it's crazy to think he could come off the bench at the beginning.
- [37:42]
Cedric Maxwell
You're not gonna do that. You're not gonna do that to him. You're not bringing him off the bench. Once you warm as a player like that, once you warm up.
- [37:50]
Adam Kaufman
That's a good point.
- [37:51]
Cedric Maxwell
You put him in the game. You start the game. You don't bring him off the bench and all this other stuff. No, you. You start him from the beginning of the game.
- [37:59]
Adam Kaufman
Well, then. Yeah, his name is last. Yeah. For no other reason than the reaction.
- [38:04]
Cedric Maxwell
Okay, okay, okay, okay. I just, it's just, it's going to be fascinating that night. I mean, and if, if NBC and Peacock and all these things are coming together, that's gonna be. It's. It's gonna be. It's gonna be fireworks. It's gonna be fireworks. Let's take a quick break.
- [38:25]
Adam Kaufman
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Evan Valenti
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Adam Kaufman
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Evan Valenti
Let's play. Give me my money back. This is an unbelievable run. I cannot believe this. So I, I just want to call Jackson Hayes being terrible at dunk contest. That was the easiest call.
- [39:25]
Adam Kaufman
We're gonna get there.
- [39:27]
Evan Valenti
What I do want to bring up my flex play for this week. James Harden less than 33 points, rebounds and assists against the Nets. Now you're going to say the Nets are a bad team. I'm going to tell you that. Cleveland's gonna be up by so much. He's not going to play a lot. So I'm going to take that. Jalen Johnson More than 22 and a half points versus the Sixers. I don't think the Sixers have ever had a wing stopper like in the last 12 years. So I like Jalen Johnson there. And then we're gonna go Alper and Shen Goon more than eight and a half rebounds versus the Hornets. I can only name two guys on the Hornets that collect rebounds. And Shen Goon's the best rebounder of the three. So that's my flex play for the week. As you guys all know, I hit all three I3X my money. Two out of three, I get my money back. And that's a win. That's a win for me. And you can cash out as easy as Venmo or your bank account, whatever. It gets to your account quickly in 15 minutes or less. It's the best way to have fun with sports this year.
- [40:20]
Cedric Maxwell
Definitely.
- [40:21]
Adam Kaufman
Prospects, download the Prize Picks app today. Use code clns. You get fifty dollars in lineups after playing your first five dollar lineup again. Download the Prize Picks app. Do it right after you listen to this show. Heck, do it while you're listening. The promo code CLNS you get $50 in lineups after playing your first for only $5 prize picks. It's good to be right foreign out here with Cedric Maxwell. Max, we've been talking about Jalen, talking about Jason, and you know, one thing we haven't really talked about on this show because there's been a lot of just kind of living in the moment with all of this of the Tatum comeback and how does he look if and when that happens and what's the ramp up like and we can talk about postseason threats and that sort of thing if we have time or if we feel like it, you know, there's plenty of time to do it. Obviously, as we still sit here just a little bit past Valentine's Day and the adjusting next to Brown. I want to take this for, for the sake of this conversation. I want to take this to next year when Tatum is completely right. He's, you know, had a training camp and a preseason and everything is as it should be. And you have Tatum and you have Brown. You have your, your Batman and Robin or 1A 1B or whatever it is. This season is going to have a lingering effect on Jalen Brown. You would think you would hope in a good way in terms of the confidence in what he has been able to do and go out and have this career year that he has had. He's going to be first team all NBA. If nothing, you know, goes haywire, he's going to be, like you said, a top five MVP vote getter, all of that. This isn't a. I want to make this abundantly clear to anyone watching or listening. This is not Jalen versus Jason. This is simply human nature. This question. How is Jalen going to react, do you think, to sliding back into the role that existed for years prior to this injury, to where he was the leader, was his offense, he was center stage. And even if you have, you know, your co ones and all that, we still know at the end of the day, it's Tatum's team. How does this look? How does this feel for Jaylen Brown at that point?
- [42:41]
Cedric Maxwell
Well, I can tell you this. 1981 Finals MVP Cedric Maxwell wasn't Larry Bird. Now, do I have to take a step back when it came to, you know, Larry Bird coming back, me knowing this is team, how did that have to happen? As a player, you understand that it's all about winning. And if you're caught up into who does what, who makes what all these other things, then you're in the wrong game. That if you're Jalen Brown and it's. And it is human nature to say, wow, you know, I was the man. Now Tatum's back. Tatum's man. Wait a minute. I'm still the man. But I understood, like, okay, I was a man for a minute. And then all of a sudden, Larry Bird comes back. He didn't really score as many points. I did. But I still know in my mind where this team still hangs his hat. I think that it's different in the fact that those two guys we're talking about, Brown and Tatum, both those guys are going to be hall of Famers. If there's. If they're healthy, both those guys are going to be hall of Famers. Yeah, Cedric Maxwell wasn't going to be a Hall of Famer, but Larry Bird was going to be a Hall of Famer. It's a different mindset when you think about those two guys and where they stand as players. And if Jalen is the person. If Jason. If Jalen is a person that we think he is, he doesn't. That. That noise doesn't bother him. The noise only bothers you when you start to lose. So if they. If they can come back and they're winning, I think it crushes everything out there. Now, if they come back and they start losing and the fans and the media and everybody else starts swirling things around, then it becomes different. So I think a lot has to do with them winning basketball games and how they finish this year. Who knows? Hell, they could come back and surprise you, be in the Finals. Hell, if they're healthy now, they could. They could win it. But I don't think that. I don't even think in prize picks or anything in anybody's imagination that we were thinking like, my daughter, though. My daughter, God bless her soul, she has it like this. She has some pick right now that Tatum, that The Celtics beat OKC in the finals. $5,000.
- [45:18]
Adam Kaufman
I love that.
- [45:19]
Cedric Maxwell
So I don't think at the beginning of the year, I don't think nobody really thought that was like, oh, well, that was throwing away money. But it's alive now. It's. It's like Frankenstein, the movie is alive. He's alive. So, yeah, I think that that is such a. A cool thing of where they're at right now. So human nature, jealousy comes into play when you think about it. But I didn't see jealousy when Brown was the Finals mvp. What I saw on the podium was one guy acknowledging the other guy for winning his first championship or vice versa. And they couldn't have done it without each other. So that's what I truly believe at the end of the day.
- [46:10]
Adam Kaufman
Should we get off of Tatum and Brown?
- [46:12]
Cedric Maxwell
So what's that?
- [46:13]
Evan Valenti
I'm just, you know, they've done a lot of winning, these guys, and that's. I. I'm. You know, the proof's in the pudding. I think Max is right when he says, you know, if they win games, nobody's gonna care. And they've done a lot of that. So, you know, use that as your. As your guiding light.
- [46:28]
Cedric Maxwell
You think about those guys right now. How many times has Tatum been in the finals or. Or, you know, guys who haven't, who were in the NBA, never got to the finals, who didn't get close to the Eastern Conference finals? I mean, you think of Charles Barkley got there as great as he was, didn't win it. Patrick Ewing got. Didn't win it. Patrick Ewing, boy, got there one time. What was it? I remember the great Dan Marino was his first year ever playing in Miami. He got to the Super Bowl. Yeah. Never got back and never got back again.
- [47:03]
Adam Kaufman
Here's hoping Drake May isn't on that same path.
- [47:07]
Cedric Maxwell
I always wonder if we could avoid that, but I guess not.
- [47:11]
Adam Kaufman
Yeah.
- [47:12]
Cedric Maxwell
So I think that when you think about. About those guys, they have their. Their shelf life, their productivity has been so good that we just take it for granted and we took it for granted this year that without Tatum.
- [47:30]
Adam Kaufman
Yeah.
- [47:31]
Cedric Maxwell
They won't go in no place. We're. Right now, we're thinking right now. Everybody was hoping right now. I remember for a while, and I don't know if I talked to you guys earlier in the season, but what somebody was saying the Celtics should tank this year. They should really take.
- [47:47]
Adam Kaufman
And
- [47:49]
Cedric Maxwell
it's. I think it is. Two things happen. It's Joe Missoula, what he's done for this team, and it's also Brad, what he's given Joe to work with. Do we think Hugo was going to be as good as he is? Do we think Charman was going to be, you know, doing what he's doing as a starter? We saw Pritchard as a six man. We're going okay, six man, but now you got to be a starter. Did we think he'd be there? I mean, you even look at this season, Derek White hasn't had a good season and had a great. He's had a good season, but he hadn't had a great season.
- [48:29]
Evan Valenti
Sure.
- [48:30]
Cedric Maxwell
Did we think that this team would be where they're at right now if Derrick White wasn't having a great season. He's done a lot of all those other things, but Derek White hasn't shot like he had, you know, in those couple years when people were saying that Derrick White should have been the All Star. So it's. This team, to me is, you know, is. It's a contrast. When I look at them, I'm like, man, they shouldn't be that good, but damn, they are. And they're fun to watch because they get out and they bust their ass every night. And now that Booch has come in and everybody said, did you ever think that we were going to get that much from Kata in the beginning of the year? I think we're saying going into the beginning of the year and something to have Keda going in and. Okay, well, wait a minute, hold on. We got Kata. He's had a, he's had a fantastic year. And, and the guys that, you know, Walsh has come in and start playing well, so seem like everything that Joe Missoula has touched essentially kind of turned the gold.
- [49:31]
Adam Kaufman
Well, that's why the guy is absolutely in the coach of the year conversation. And, and I hope he wins it. He has been incredible.
- [49:38]
Evan Valenti
All right.
- [49:38]
Adam Kaufman
In the interest of time, because I know, you know, you've, you've been traveling all day and we don't want to keep you forever. Let's, let's revert back to, you know, the very beginning of the show. I said I wanted to talk about some All Star stuff. You said, why? And, and I think that's an appropriate response. That's kind of what the, you know, Mid Season Classic or whatever we want to call All Star Weekend has kind of become, which, by the way, All Star Weekend, my ass. Saturday, Sunday, these teams don't play again till Thursday. Like, I don't know why we need to stretch this stuff out the way that we have more and more over the years, but I think the, the games on Sunday generally worked. You know, I think they're going to run back that format. You had three competitive games, game winners across all of them. And then obviously the blowout in the championship, which, fine, that happens. There are all sorts of. I know a lot of the players just said, like, why can't just be east versus west, you know, and make it simple again so they still want something different. All Star Saturday. I truly do believe Max is fixable. I still believe it's fixable. The three point contest is the three point contest. It's it's good, it's fun, it's entertaining. You know, I, I still think, and I, I talked about this on the show last week. Even though I bet on Dame to win, I still thought it was kind of ridiculous that he was participating because I just feel like it's kind of a slight on like you could have found another active player that could have played in the thing. But I think that feeds into kind of what I'm talking about. If the NBA, according to this report from Front Office Sports, I think had it that if the NBA is sort of soliciting new ideas for how to make All Star Saturday more interesting. You know, let's. Someone on our text thread mentioned, you know, let. Why, why don't you have a. Whoever wants to participate and this would be a good place for Dame. Previous three point contest winners, retired or otherwise. Come on back. You can play in a three point contest. We'll, we'll celebrate some. You know, anyone who, I don't know that Larry's going to go out and do it. Maybe some more recent guys, but you know that like, that could be fun. People would certainly watch it. You could do, and I know it's been talked about over the years, you could do some sort of a, a horse competition that would probably honestly be better in the dunk contest. Because even though the dunk contest is a flagship, I mean this, this was rock bottom this year, not only in terms of name recognition, but performance, these dunks. And I say this in a relative sense because it's not like I can do any of this, but compared to what you would tend to expect in a dunk contest, this was trash. And I have been on this for years, Max. Like, can't we just lean into it at this point and do like an, an one mixtape, globetrotter, whoever, like, just get some of the best street baller athletes in the world and have them come out, put on a show, do the dunk contest. You'll have Giannis and Pierce and all these guys sitting courtside with their cameras, taking video.
- [52:37]
Cedric Maxwell
Ooh.
- [52:38]
Adam Kaufman
And on. And like, it'd be entertaining. And then at least we don't have to pretend that Mack McClung and guys like that are NBA players. You know what I mean? Like, let's just stop doing that. Nobody knows who Carter Bryant is or Keishad Johnson or, or any of these. And you, you've heard of Jackson Hayes. Congrats. He did a transition dunk in the NBA dunk contest. It's embarrassing. There are ways to fix this and it's. If it bugs me a fan this much, I can only imagine how you, a former player and a successful one at that, feel about
- [53:12]
Cedric Maxwell
is it's become
- [53:17]
Evan Valenti
the.
- [53:17]
Cedric Maxwell
The NBA All Star Game has its own life now. And it isn't really about the game anymore. Although I think Sunday kind of helped it out a little bit with the competition, the, you know, the way the games were playing, but the life of my own. What I mean by is more celebrities show up at those games. The fact that you have, you know, all these people, Kevin Hart coming in promoting this game, that Snoop. Is that all it's become just a fashion show. It isn't about the basketball anymore. Hell, do we think that the Harlem Gold Charles are the greatest team ever to play? No, we don't. But they're entertaining. And part of that maybe that that's one of the things that might be. Would helped out bringing some of these guys in that I've seen going, oh my God, this guy did some dunk where he went behind and hit it. And it was. But he was like, it's YouTube stuff. So should we get the best YouTuber and let him come in and let the players. I think that that's. That's an idea. I mean mine was. My thought was for a while in the. When the last game I saw the one. The game I saw was 210 to 201 or what. That game sucked to me. I wanted to say, why don't we just bring some of the WNBA players in, combine them with the NBA players and let them play in these games. Because one thing we know, the women are not going to give that. They're going to play hard all the time and the guys aren't one are not going to want to get embarrassed. I think that you could even add something to that that would make it what it was. But the All Star Game, the weekend is taking life of its own and. Yeah, is it. Can you fix the slam dunk without having LeBron in it? He ain't gonna do it. Did you fix it with the spider? Not meant. I mean guys who are great dunkers right now in the NBA. Giannis, none of these guys are going to do it. So I think that you might have to do that. That you should maybe just lean in on some of the best dunkers around and they could be street ball legends and you could sell that. Maybe even more so than having Jackson Hayes going there during the traditional dunk. Hell, why don't you have Cedric Maxwell jump off what do like lucky Jump off one of the trampolines and dunk it.
- [55:51]
Adam Kaufman
I'd pay to see that. I watched that.
- [55:53]
Cedric Maxwell
I would, too. I would pay to see that. So I think that, you know, I think you have a point there, but the. The life of the game, the NBA is trying to tweak it, but what people like is the people who are showing up after the super bowl, the baseball players show up the best. I remember when I had a party one time before all these people came this. When they had it in Charlotte, Evander Holyfield was there. This guy was there. That guy was there. That Boomer assassin was. It was all these people who came for the All Star weekend. And I don't think there's another All Star weekend like that. Maybe, you know, baseball kind of has something really going right now with the Home Run Derby and all that stuff. But. But, you know, look what happened with the NFL. What did they do right now with theirs?
- [56:44]
Adam Kaufman
They don't flag football game on a Tuesday.
- [56:51]
Evan Valenti
So.
- [56:52]
Cedric Maxwell
So, I mean, in that vein, they might as well happen. I mean, they might as well go out and let my. My ex wife run out there and grab a flag or something. It just looks that I would be. I'd be more interested in seeing her out there trying to grab a flag than I'm seeing some of these great players who said they're not going to tackle each other is tackle football. Reggie White, the great Reggie White, said something to me one time. I did a podcast, did a show of him in Charlotte. And one of the things he said to me, and we were talking about sports in general, and I was like. And he was talking about some of the NFL players who were holding on. And I said, damn, Reggie, why do they hold on? And I remember he said to me, he called me Corns. He said, Corns, let me tell you why. He said, you can always go out and play basketball. Even after you retire. Once you stop tackling, you ain't never going back to playing this again. So you have to stay in the moment. And I think that a lot of these guys stay in the moment, but to me, the NFL, that. That their whole weekend. I don't even. Do anybody even sponsor that. I mean, where did they have it this year? Was then Vegas, when one time was in Hawaii. Now it's in Vegas. Hell, next year we're in Indianapolis. Where's it going to be? I mean, it's just crazy.
- [58:17]
Evan Valenti
It doesn't make any sense.
- [58:20]
Adam Kaufman
Max, before we let you go, and I've been. I've been back, you Know, the, the ping pong ball in my head has been paddling around because I've been debating whether I was going to bring this up a second straight show because YouTube commenters responded about how I expected them to, even though this wasn't my idea. But I just feel like you're gonna have such a great take on it that I need to ask it.
- [58:43]
Cedric Maxwell
Okay.
- [58:44]
Adam Kaufman
Are you. Are. Buckle up. AB Says, did you see the Nick Wright take about how to fix the All Star Game?
- [58:52]
Cedric Maxwell
I did not see it. What did he say?
- [58:55]
Adam Kaufman
Nick Wright had a take on the Bill Simmons podcast.
- [58:58]
Cedric Maxwell
Okay.
- [58:59]
Adam Kaufman
He said it's not PC, but if you really want to fix the All Star Game, blacks against whites, He said they'll be motivated. Everyone's going to be playing for pride. I promise. You're going to get defense. And his point was maybe not today, but in a few years, because Caneppel's a rookie, obviously, you know, let him grow into his game a little bit.
- [59:26]
Cedric Maxwell
Cooper Flag, let me make sure I get this straight. White players against black players. Is that what he wants to go back to? That's correct. This is after Jesse Jackson just passed away and we're going with. And really, he did. He actually, he actually said this on.
- [59:42]
Adam Kaufman
I mean, actually said it.
- [59:43]
Cedric Maxwell
I mean, this is the same time, this is the same atmosphere that Donald Trump went out and had pictures of Michelle Obama and President Barack Obama as apes. And then they went and tried to say, well, this is part of the Lion King. And the guy, somebody said they didn't have any, any apes in the Lion King. He said it wasn't in there. So whatever it was, it wasn't in the Lion King. So I don't know. I, I, Oh, God. I mean, really, I've heard, I heard Nick say a lot of things, crazy things.
- [60:13]
Adam Kaufman
Yeah.
- [60:14]
Cedric Maxwell
It might be one of the stupidest things I've ever heard them say that you have white, white players against black players. The interest level might be high, but, God, you, you, you can't be that PC.
- [60:24]
Adam Kaufman
The, the ratings would be through the roof.
- [60:26]
Cedric Maxwell
Max.
- [60:28]
Adam Kaufman
Obviously, it's a terrible idea. But let me ask you this, because this was really the point. He was drilling down on Canal Flag. Luca Jokic, obviously, you know, Sabonis, Hero, Bogdanov.
- [60:41]
Cedric Maxwell
Come on.
- [60:42]
Adam Kaufman
Now, the, the question is, would the game be
- [60:49]
Cedric Maxwell
that you're gonna put all the, all the best black players on one team.
- [60:53]
Adam Kaufman
Correct.
- [60:53]
Cedric Maxwell
All the best white players on one team. And, you know, it's so, it's so indignant. It's so indignant. I can't even answer, because it's just. It just seems. It's like. It's beneath me. Like, when you talk about that, I mean, because, hell out. What. Here I was. I played with the great Larry Bird, sure. And my ignorance at that time. My ignorance at that time was I didn't think white guys could play my thing in college. I should do it. My college coach, all the time, my assistant coach, he. We'd be going over the chalkboard, and I was the center for the team. When I was at UNC Charlotte, he'd gone, this guy, he was the center for the other team. He can do this, he can do that, he can do this. And I'd always raised my hand. I said, he's like, what do you want? I said, you white or black? He goes, what difference does it make? I said, all I asked you was a question. And I just said it so I could piss him off. But then, once I got to the league, I played with John Hamichek. I played with Dave Cows, but for me, they were older guys. Why did I have to be the first with my ignorance, why did I have to be the first one to be there to challenge Larry Bird? What a spectacle. I still look at myself now, thinking how ignorant it was for me to even think like that. And I remember him walking out on the floor, and Larry has this. He said this. And I've said it before. Everybody who's been there before, we're at Hellenic College. I was up on the podium, and Larry walks in, and I have a crowd around me because I'm the man right now. I'm averaging about 20, 20 and 10. And Larry Bird walks in. I'm like this great white hope. Here we go. Here we go. How's this guy? He can't help me. He's. He can't help me. What is he gonna do? I remember the first play go out, and, you know, I scored easy because I'm scum. A score at that time. So it was easy. But remember, Larry scored on me. I was like, oh, sure. Okay. Well, you know, that was lucky. That was life. Second shot. Damn. Third, fourth, fifth, got about the eighth, and nice shot he's. He done made. And I remember after practice, walking up to the first black person I could see, and I said, you know what? Y' all can beat this all you want to. But I said, you know what? That white guy can play over there.
- [63:21]
Evan Valenti
So.
- [63:21]
Cedric Maxwell
So that. That was my ignorance. So I. I mean, it's a hell of a. It's a hell of a statement. To make. And it would be a hell of a scenario to put it in your mind to say that could the best white players be the best black players in a NBA game? It's. I don't know. It's mind blowing to hear that. That Nick even said that. It's just crazy. I don't even know what people. How do people respond to that?
- [63:53]
Adam Kaufman
I mean, I probably. Probably not favorably. You know, again, we. I.
- [63:59]
Evan Valenti
In this.
- [63:59]
Cedric Maxwell
In this Trump. In this Trump era, we're gonna go. You're gonna go like that? Well, I mean, if.
- [64:05]
Adam Kaufman
If ever there were a time that something like that could happen, it would be in Trump's America, right in the White House. 1.
- [64:11]
Cedric Maxwell
You know what?
- [64:12]
Evan Valenti
Right after UFC 250 or whatever it
- [64:14]
Cedric Maxwell
is, what was it? It was the John F. Kennedy center, and all of a sudden it was a Donald Trump and John F. Kennedy center that supposedly.
- [64:22]
Adam Kaufman
That's right.
- [64:23]
Cedric Maxwell
Trump helped back some money. Right now. He wanted to say, if you name the airport in New York after me, then I'll give you 2 billion.
- [64:32]
Adam Kaufman
Don't forget, he wanted to rename the. The commander's facility after him. He wanted. Is it still FedEx field that he want. He wanted to make it, you know, like Trump Stadium or Trump Field or. I don't even know.
- [64:45]
Cedric Maxwell
So I don't. I wouldn't even want to put. For Nick to put that out there. It is so bizarre.
- [64:52]
Adam Kaufman
I'll send you the clip.
- [64:53]
Cedric Maxwell
I'll check it. It is so indignant. I just want to know what the hell they said when they're on that show. Because it's. It. You know what? I'll say it like this. It's stupidly fascinating, what he said.
- [65:09]
Evan Valenti
That's.
- [65:09]
Cedric Maxwell
That's.
- [65:09]
Adam Kaufman
That's right. I think that's dead on.
- [65:12]
Cedric Maxwell
Let's go. Like, that is stupidly fascinating because that's
- [65:16]
Adam Kaufman
why, again, like, I. I hesitated to even bring it up, but I knew you'd have a great response to it.
- [65:22]
Cedric Maxwell
It is stupidly fascinating because one thing you think about, who's the best player right now in the league?
- [65:27]
Adam Kaufman
I still think it's Jokic.
- [65:28]
Cedric Maxwell
Okay. It's Joker joke is the best. Where is. Where is Luca with that? Is Luca someplace in the top, Whatever.
- [65:38]
Adam Kaufman
Yeah. I mean, top six, seven.
- [65:41]
Cedric Maxwell
Yeah. Here's the thing about it. Right now, in the NBA, you can feel that.
- [65:45]
Adam Kaufman
You can.
- [65:45]
Cedric Maxwell
You can feel enough white players to maybe compete like that. During my particular era, you couldn't. You had Rick, Barry and. And, I don't know, Larry Bird, and you didn't have Enough to even feel a team. I could think you're thinking of maybe six or seven guys. That was it.
- [66:04]
Adam Kaufman
Well, but the, the reason for that, I mean, think about the guys that we're naming. We're naming Europeans.
- [66:10]
Cedric Maxwell
Yeah, yeah, that's true. It's true. Well, you think about who's, who's going to be. Yeah, but that's. I think that's what's going to be fascinating about to me about the Olympics is the fact that who's going to be the best. Not white player, but who's going to be the best American players who are going to be left by the time the Olympics go get around is Aunt Edwards. Has he gone to the top of the mountain right now? Because we know what the big Frenchman's gonna do. The thing I talked to somebody before. I've seen, I've heard of. I didn't see Chamberlain as much. Chamberlain changed the way the game was played. The other person after that who changed the way the game played was Steph Curry. The next person right now looks like it could be Wimbiyamba because he, he is that hit. He could, he could shut you down defensively almost all night if you want. Wanted to.
- [67:05]
Adam Kaufman
How can he change the way like Steph can change the way the game is played, not because there are other shooters of his ability, but because you can stretch everybody out. You can, you know, from a young age get people to work on becoming three point shooters and you can just, you can stylistically change the league to become more of a three point shooting league, as has obviously happened. You can't, like there's nobody else that does what Wemby does.
- [67:34]
Cedric Maxwell
It's fascinating when I start looking at all these other guys, I'm not sure where they're getting them from, but I'm starting to see guys 7 foot 7, 7 foot 8, 7 foot 9, who are playing the game. There's some kid I just saw the other day on YouTube who's 7 foot 5, who's 16 years old. So we don't know what could be coming down the path, but what we know right now is, is the way Wimby plays the game. He is changing the game completely because how do you guard him? Is he guard anymore?
- [68:06]
Adam Kaufman
Is
- [68:09]
Evan Valenti
76 with guard skills and like legit and shoot?
- [68:14]
Cedric Maxwell
And then what does he do on the defensive end?
- [68:16]
Evan Valenti
I can't block everything.
- [68:19]
Adam Kaufman
Even get.
- [68:19]
Evan Valenti
You can't even get layups. You can't even take it in transition because you think he's.
- [68:23]
Cedric Maxwell
I mean, we're looking at guys now he's toying out there with guys.
- [68:26]
Adam Kaufman
Has he had a quadruple double yet? It's gonna happen.
- [68:29]
Evan Valenti
He's gonna get it.
- [68:30]
Cedric Maxwell
Well, look, he's blocking shots right now, not even getting off the floor. He's just like guy. Even though he's just, he just. So we look at him right now, he is the alien. He's that next thing that we look at. And I don't know how the rules are gonna change with him, but I remember, I think it was Anthony Davis said that. He said maybe we need to have a league right now. Whereas seven footers and nothing above like they do over in the Philippines. Six, five and under, he said, because he said, he said this, he said that one Bianba is just that good. And what happens when he gets in the second year and his third year? What happens when he puts on about 10 or 15 pounds of muscle? Is it, is it even going to be fair? Oh, so yeah, yeah. That's what I would give you. That's why I would give your, your guy. That would be my answer to him. Yeah. Fascinatingly stupid, but just so, so you can watch it.
- [69:35]
Adam Kaufman
When we're done here, I'm sending you the clip right now and I look forward to your thoughts on it.
- [69:40]
Cedric Maxwell
Okay, sounds good. Sounds good.
- [69:43]
Adam Kaufman
Yeah. It's insane. Max, we always enjoy talking to you. And that by the way is one of you somewhere.
- [69:49]
Cedric Maxwell
I think it was ev.
- [69:51]
Adam Kaufman
Alluded to this as well. And I should have mentioned this in the, the, the same way that the unrivaled league is doing this. You know, these like these one on one competitions within their off season league. That's another thing. One on one at the NBA All Star and Jalen Brown talked about it.
- [70:07]
Cedric Maxwell
No, you don't want to see that. No, no I do, but they won't do it. No, I don't want to see that because they had that before. They had that when Kareem and Dr. J was playing and Kareem just backed them down, backed him down and laid it up every time. It's that, that doesn't, that doesn't appeal to me that, that three point that. Well, it will appeal maybe a little bit more now to me if you have a, have a Steph Curry out there because now guys are trying to shoot three and you look at some of the stuff that goes on. I even look at the competition right now. What's the other league bit, the big three, the physicality that goes in that game with the big three, man, I, I'm loving that. I mean, I even like the little scuffle that they had in Charlotte when they had the Pistons and going back. Yeah, that to me. That to me is. Is some. Some good loud me stuff. So where does.
- [71:00]
Evan Valenti
Where does Big Stu rank on, like, guys that you'd want to see coming off the bench in a. In a, you know, in a. In a skirmish like that? Is he, like, way up there guys you don't want to see?
- [71:10]
Cedric Maxwell
He would be. He would. He would be like that if you were. Because I'm fascinated with all these nature shows. He would be like, you know, they. They hippopotamus, they kill more. They kill more people. They. Than. Than lions and tigers because they're just mean. And Andre, he reminds me of a big hippo. When he comes off, he's just flying and he is. He's coming at you. So Beef Stew has his own place, but for seven games, were you to suspend him? That's a lot. That's a lot considering this. Considering this gentleman. If that was a hockey fight, what would you give that fight?
- [71:47]
Evan Valenti
Five minutes.
- [71:52]
Cedric Maxwell
There's my. Now. There's my stupid take right now. There's my. My stupid thing. Why the hell are we giving somebody all these damn penalties when. When we look at a hockey fight and the same thing breaks out and don't even have a. You don't even go to the pill. I don't even know if you go to the penalty box. Just. Okay, guys, we're good. Let's go on. Because some of the fighting, some of the physicality of the game, to me, I would love to see it, because it would shut some of these guys mouths who think they're tough, you know, Missoula loves it.
- [72:27]
Adam Kaufman
See the grin on his face when that Providence fight broke out. He was in his glory. It was like he was ringside.
- [72:33]
Cedric Maxwell
Joe was. Something happened one time when Tatum got mad. And I said this before to you guys, I said, when t. The Celtics weren't going to win a championship until you had a mean Tatum or a mean Brown. What have we had over the last couple years? I mean, Tatum and a mean Brown. You can't have your best players be the nicest guys on your team. Your best players have to be sometimes. And that's when the Celtics won. So, yeah, I like that kind of stuff. So if Joe, If. If it was Joe's world, Joe would be happy that if it was little scuffle and. And. And all that stuff. I understand what the NBA is saying about the violence things, but I still can't Fathom why they let them fight in hockey and we're okay with that. And don't tell me it's the nature of the game. Don't tell me they're on skates. Don't tell me all that. Just tell me why is it. Okay, watch this. Here we go. Here we go. Nick, why is it okay for white guys and black guys?
- [73:35]
Evan Valenti
Yeah, I was going to go with that.
- [73:37]
Adam Kaufman
Here we go.
- [73:39]
Cedric Maxwell
Here we go. Nick, you want. You want to take my take on something, Nick, here we go. You send that to Nick real quick to see what Nick might say about that. You know I will. Okay. Why is it okay?
- [73:51]
Evan Valenti
We'll get a social going. We'll figure it out.
- [73:53]
Cedric Maxwell
Why is we gonna send something back to this guy who said this about the black? Why is it Okay.
- [74:01]
Adam Kaufman
I love the show and I love this man.
- [74:04]
Cedric Maxwell
Riddle me this, Batman.
- [74:09]
Adam Kaufman
Check out the Cedric Maxwell podcast. Check out his books. There are multiple now. And of course, check him out.
- [74:16]
Cedric Maxwell
Yeah, I have. Robert Parrish is coming on with me pretty soon because we're going to talk about his. His new book. Yeah, I saw that. I saw him coming out. He's promoting his book. He's coming back to Boston. So I'm probably going to go out to see him. But I'm also going to have more on the podcast. We're going to talk about a bunch of, you know, self things, some of his likes and some of his dislikes. So, yeah, we'll cross some of those borders. Hell yeah.
- [74:40]
Adam Kaufman
That's awesome. I have to get out to one of those signings which chief did tweet out. He's going to be posting where, where and when. Some of those book signings in the Boston area are going to be coming with that book, which drops here very soon to the general public. So you could pre order it, get on it again. Cedric Maxwell. Check out the Cedric Maxwell podcast. Listen to him alongside Sean Grandy on the radio waves and of course, a good friend of this program here. Celtics beat. You can find his podcast on the CLNS Media YouTube page, the all access page where you can find us and other shows as well.
- [75:14]
Cedric Maxwell
Max.
- [75:14]
Adam Kaufman
We always appreciate it, sir. Enjoy the second half, but we'll be talking again soon.
- [75:18]
Cedric Maxwell
All right, gentlemen, have a good one for Max forever.
- [75:21]
Adam Kaufman
I'm Adam. We will talk to you again next time right here on Celtic Speed.