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- [00:03]
A
I. I switched this. If you can't even tell. I don't think I switched this from. From the TV monitor I'd been using behind me to a green screen. Actually.
- [00:11]
B
Actually, I could just. Because based on how big the banners are, I knew we were looking at something different, but I wasn't gonna bring it.
- [00:16]
A
Oh, okay.
- [00:18]
B
That's all right.
- [00:19]
A
Quality's good, though.
- [00:20]
B
Looks good.
- [00:21]
A
This is my first experience with a home green screen.
- [00:26]
B
Love it.
- [00:27]
A
It's good because I turned the TV around and now, as opposed to being right behind me, just being, again, a, you know, graphic board, I'm actually using it as a television right in front of me, which is way better.
- [00:41]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [00:43]
A
All right, Here we go. 3, 2, 1. Today's Saturday, March 14, and this is Celtic speed on CLNS Media, the leading online provider of audio video coverage of the Boston Celtics. I'm Adam Kaufman. Episode 667 features the Ringer and Spotify's Brian Barrett.
- [01:02]
B
And I'm Evan Valenti. And today's show is powered by Prize Picks. Prize Picks is the official daily fantasy partner of CLNS Media. Download the app today, use the promo code CLNS and get $50 in lineups when you play. $5. Foreign.
- [01:35]
A
Welcome in. It's a brand new edition of Celtics Beat and you've got the Syracuse trifecta coming at you. Although there are different versions of this that we have experimented with along the way. But hey, we love our guy. Brian Barrett from Spotify and. And the Ringer, of course, hosts the off the pike podcast that he is kind enough to welcome us onto from time to time as well. I am Adam Kaufman, joined of course, as always by Evan Valenti. If you miss any of this show or any other great Celtics podcast available to you through CLNS, we always like to remind you, check out the CLNS Media YouTube page and specifically the all access page, which is right where you can find our shows, our contact, even. Noah Dalzel, part of the network, did a sit down with Gordon Hayward recently, reflecting upon his time in Boston and of course, the audio version. Wherever you get your podcast rate, review. Most importantly, subscribe. Fellas, welcome to March. I know it's mid March, March is underway, but the madness, it's right around the corner. Selection Sunday is upon us. I mentioned Syracuse. I have to mention that as the three of us probably sit here hoping Jerry McNamara will be the next head coach of the former Orange men turned orange. But no, people out there, they don't like when we cross sports. This is still the same sport, but we go down a level. You want Celtics talk, we'll give you Celtics talk. Coming off a road trip, one and two. But it's not exactly like it was a disappointing road trip by any stretch. You had a nice win In Cleveland, an 11 point victory there, whereas we saw it was just a good, balanced offensive attack. And then the controversy surrounding the San Antonio loss. Jaylen Brown getting ejected. We can talk about that. Some Jason Tatum, he had another good performance. And then the kind of sort of maybe almost scheduled loss in okc. No Tatum, no white. Obviously no vouch. And the Celtics still put up a fight. Narrowly steal that one, lose by two points. So, guys, let's start there. Overarching thoughts as the seas as we sit here. Get ready to host the Wizards a little bit later on tonight. Apologies if people are tuning in after that game. It's not going to be a game preview. The road trip. Barrett, what did we think of it?
- [03:45]
C
Well, first of all, to the Wizards point, you may have history tonight. Somebody may score 84 points against the Wizards because we saw Bam. We saw Bam go for 83 earlier.
- [03:55]
A
JT coming out.
- [03:56]
C
Maybe it's Pritchard. Maybe Pritchard goes for 84 in this game. Overall, I was fine with the results of the road trip. I thought the Cavaliers game was very impressive, especially the way the Tatum looked at the beginning of that game and then unfortunate situation in the spurs game. And I thought they fought pretty well when Jalen. After Jalen got ejected and Tatum had sort of a spot there where he had it going a little bit and then felt like he kind of ran out of gas. It was kind of weird how they managed the minutes I felt in the San Antonio game compared to the Cleveland game. Because if you go back to the Cleveland game, Tatum has that incredible start and then you have the situation where I believe it was Shireman, correct me if I'm wrong, Tatum's at the free throw line. Shireman's getting ready to check in. And so you can't take Tatum out because he's the free throw shooter. So he ends up playing like almost nine minutes in the first quarter. The plan had been, hey, let's play the first six minutes of each of those quarters. And if you go back to the San Antonio game the other night, there was one of the quarters I can't remember off the top of my head where he came out after like two minutes. So I think they were trying to manage, hey, if we need him down the stretch of the game. And I think Missoula has done A really good job. What he can do with these minutes. Even though there's no minutes threshold. He plays 27 minutes every game. We kind of know what it is. Like there was one game where he brought him back in at the end. It was first game back where it looked rusty and then he brought him back for the end of the second quarter and I thought that was really important to get him a couple of baskets before halftime just to get some confidence because the way that that second quarter looked for Tatum in the first game, I'm like, oh boy, this looks a little bit rusty. But he's able to figure it out. Obviously the shooting percentage isn't there. And then the OKC game. I don't know about you guys. My long winded way of answering your question, Kaufman.
- [05:34]
A
Sorry, long winded introduction to you. So it's okay.
- [05:37]
C
I came away from that game incredibly pissed off because it's just tough for me to watch Shay. I know he's arguably the best player in the NBA. He's going to win back to back MVPs. But. And everybody's going to reference, of course you see the play that's on social media with Jordan Walsh where he loses the ball and he gets rewarded for that. But I do think there is something to what Jalen's saying, and I'm not saying that Jalen doesn't try to get fouls, but Shay right now is the most egregious guy in the NBA. Luka, I guess would be in that category. Harden is the goat. I mean just the greatest of all time. Harden would drive, grab a guy's arm and somehow the official will make a call. I just don't know how like. And look, they're calling it. So give him credit I guess for getting to the free throw line, but it was just really tough to watch. And the way the whole game ended on the free throw line too after Jalen, you know, it's just tough to watch. But I do feel good about that. I do feel good like the way that they performed in that game in okc. And I know OKC was missing guys, but Celtics are missing the guy that wears number zero and also the plus minus King and Derrick White. So I felt pretty good about the road trip in totality. I just hated the game. Like it was a very entertaining game but it was also an annoying game. And I think anytime you play that team it's going to be annoying. And say hypothetically, it's not out of this. It's not of the real possibility those two teams Meet the finals. We will hate that team if the Celtics make it to the NBA Finals.
- [07:01]
A
I mean, first, first of all, I do want your thoughts on the road trip. We do that in just a second. And, and how dare you with this plus minus king stuff for white. We all know that's Ugo, but I, I need to go back to the, the SGA stuff because I get it. I get, I think it's a little rich coming from Jalen after he had 14 free throw attempts in that game and SGA had eight. You know, but, but nevertheless, I realize the way you get there, it's a little bit different. Jaylen was, you know, he's, he's not the free throw merchant. And all this stuff people like to say about SGA and, and Jaylen never has been. Jaylen, if nothing else, complains that he's not getting that opportunity to go to free throw line. Getting those superstar calls in the way that SGA or, you know, Harden in the past or Brunson or some of these guys that we accuse of being, you know, just again, merchants of, of, of. Of trying to get themselves to the free throw line. But I, it doesn't bother me in the way that it bothers you. It really doesn't. And, and again, I know people don't like it when we reference other sports, but I'm going to bring this to football for a second. I'm not someone that has a problem with the tush push, for instance. You know, like, people want to legislate the tush push out of the NFL. For me, it's like, figure out how to stop it, guys. Like, if, if you got that big an issue with it, either figure out how to do it yourselves and, or figure out how to stop it. To me, with SGA and kickouts, or the way that, you know, he tries to draw fouls, like, figure out a way around it then if, if you got that.
- [08:30]
C
Also, how about the officials? How about the officials? Don't call them fouls. They're not fouls.
- [08:34]
A
Don't calls. But that's a, that's just a bigger issue with the league. And the league, you know, tried to legislate some of that stuff a couple of years ago, not allowing for the, you know, Harden kick out on threes, saying, hey, we're going to start. We're not, not only are we not going to give you that call, we're going to start to call it an offensive foul and these things, but it just, it all reverts back. It finds a way to come Back to where it was and that's where out with SGA and sga, by the way. I realize he's always among the leaders, you know, if not two, three. But he doesn't lead the league regularly in free throw attempts per game. What he does oftentimes do is sit at top the league as he does right now in free throw. Makes good, take advantage of it if, if, if, if you're gonna get there, make your free throws. And so I don't know, I, I like SGA a lot. I like him as a dude, I like him as a player. I know he's not the, doesn't have the, the most, I don't know, marketable personality so far as we've seen so far. I, I know he's gone and, and done a couple of commercials but he's not everywhere in the way that a guy like Tatum is for instance. But I just, I think this guy just wants to ball and if you're going to draw some fouls along the way, good on you. OKC is an elite team, a fun watch, a good group of young guys and I, I don't have an issue with it. I really don't.
- [09:54]
B
Yeah, I mean it comes back to officiating for both of those things. Like the Philadelphia Eagles tush push wasn't nearly as effective when they started calling the Eagles for false starts every time they run that play because they, because they fall start every, get a head start and that's why it's so effective. Right. Same thing with Shay. Shea's just manipulating the rule book and the refs call it. I mean if, look, I, I don't, I don't have nearly as big of an issue with it. Again I'm like Barrett, I'll hate it if they play the, the Thunder in the finals. It'll drive me crazy. But at the same time that's not what, that's not why the Celtics lost the game. They didn't lose the game because Shay's foul baiting, Shay killed them at the end of the game one on one from the top of the key and this other ran out of gas like that's why they lost the game. Not because Shay's foul baiting I, I is just, he's so quick in half court sets and he's so good at manipulating angles with his body that they, he just, he's really tough to officiate and he puts the onus on the officials. He doesn't, he just does what he needs to do to, to win games. I have Zero problem with it. Again, I, I'm going to also say that I feel the need that I will probably reverse course if they play in the finals. But like he's just admitting the rule book to, to make it work. And that's just, if you want a rule change, fine, but that's just the way the rules are.
- [11:10]
C
Yeah, I think when it comes to, and look specifically in that game, there were a couple times that he did it and I'm like, how is he getting these calls? The Walsh one is just like, that's an all timer. I mean that's just horrible. But the official messed that one up. Like that. I, I don't understand how he messed that one up. But I think like Jalen's overall gripe about it is and it was funny where he got caught, not caught on Mike. He said that's not basketball. At one of the plays that Jay got to follow and then she kind of looked back at him. But I think if you look at it so on the season, top three players in drives per game. Danny Advia is number one, Jalen Brown is number two and Shay Gilgis Alexander is number three. And if you look at free throws per game, Luke is number one in the league, Shay's number two in the league. And those are the guys that do the most foul baiting. Denny Avia's third in the league and Jalen Brown is right outside the top 10 in free throws per game. So here's the thing that I would say about that. I understand why Jalen wants more free throw attempts. He thinks that he says he plays the game the right way, doesn't foul bait and all this. But like that number that Jalen's at doesn't seem crazy to me because to the point that he's making, he isn't file baiting. Like when he's driving, he's either stopping on a dime and shooting or he's getting all the way to the bucket, right? He's not. And he's going to try to go through you with force. When you look at Advia, Advi is one of these guys that's going to slow down, he's going to let you hit, hit, hit him on the back. Shay does the same thing. And I'm not saying this is foul baiting. I'm just pointing out like Shay is going to get the defender on the back, draw, contact. That way he's going to be crafty and at times he'll grab the other guy's arm and somehow he's the guy that gets awarded the free throw. Jalen doesn't do anything like, of that nature. So I'm sure he sees the numbers that I see, and he says, well, I'm driving as much as these guys in terms of the guys that are getting to the free throw line the most. And I think that's where the frustration comes from. His part. But I would also say, like, I don't think there's like a ton of missed calls. Like the first San Antonio game. Yes, they missed calls. They missed calls in that game. But overall, like, I don't think Jalen is officiated sort of unfairly. I think it's just other guys are gaming the system, and I think that's where sort of the aggravation comes from on his part is like, hey, he thinks I'm playing the game the right way. These guys are doing some BS stuff and they're getting rewarded for it. That's why I think he gets so aggravated about it.
- [13:25]
B
It's just one of those situations where even if, like, unless. Can we admit something here, Jalen pushes off all the time. So to stay them. Can we do that? It's.
- [13:33]
C
Yeah. Tatum's the. Tatum's one of the worst guys in the league with it.
- [13:36]
B
Yeah, it's. It's like they're. They all do stuff to try and gain an advantage.
- [13:41]
A
And I think, by the way, good.
- [13:44]
B
Yeah, right. Like, Pritchard does it all the time. And they never call Pritchard for pushing off because he's usually pushing off a guy at 6 with 10. And when. Because he's near the basket all the time and stuff like that, he just throws like, the shoulder. I give him a little bit of elbow or something. When he gets. Just get a little bit of separation, a little bit daylight. And I think the refs are like, dude, he's six one. You're 610. Figure it out. Like, I, I, I. You got to use every little trick to your. To your advantage. And I have no problem with Shay doing it his way, Jalen doing his way, Jason Peyton, whatever works. I will say this road trip, to bring it back to this question. This road trip, I think, proved to the NBA that Boston is either the deepest team in the league or one of the deepest teams in the league because of what they've been able to roll out at wing from the San Antonio game, the Cleveland game, San Antonio game, in the Oklahoma City game, specifically the last two. Like, Ron Harper Jr. Is having just a heck of a week. BAYLOR Shireman's doing 18 different things in a game that win them games. Ugo, who we all love, has been a little bit quieter lately, but just does like 17 things a game where you're like, wow, that was amazing. Jordan Walsh comes off the bench against Oklahoma City, hasn't played in a while. He was excellent in that game. Like, they just keep rolling out dudes that. I don't know what it is that Joe Missoula tells these guys on the bench before they go out there, but they just go out there and they battle their ass off. And when you look at that Oklahoma City game specifically, I watched that game, and I'm like, Boston is, like, so undermanned because in this game, they're missing Tatum and White. But if. If you. If you told those guys that they. They don't. They don't care because those guys that went out and they competed for 48 minutes as much as they possibly could, flying around the court, you know, trying to get every offensive rebound, trying to get every loose ball humanly possible. That's why that game was so close, because they literally won or at least tried to win on every single margin they could. And as you get ready for these playoffs and the way that I think Boston's going to try and play here, I couldn't be more encouraged by the way the benches responded to those three games because they.
- [15:44]
A
I'll tell you, I'm just looking at some starting numbers, which feeds only partially into your point. Hauser. And I know you didn't mention him. He's not really part of that next group, but 35 starts this year. Walsh, 20. Shireman, 17. Minot. Of course we remember that run. 10. I mean, really. What I don't know. Joe's telling these guys either right before they're about to check in right before a game tips off. What he should be telling them, and I'm sure in some way is kind of intimating is, you know, play like you're never gonna play again, because right now you got my trust, you got my faith. Get out there and show it. And these guys, to your point, and, you know, it's. It's just of all, for all of us that we hear on this show, like, sort of the, The. The royal. We on this show, some guests along the way as well, but definitely Evan and I had higher expectations for this team going into the year than most. Not expectations like where they're at right now. Nobody was talking about winning a championship, but both of us were sitting there feeling good about, okay, like, this could be a. A team that is Firmly in the playoff mix, can win you 45 games, can be a top four seed in the East. All of these things independent of Tatum. What they are doing right now. Barrett suggested it before others along the way. We've talked about it. We had Grandy on last week. The fact that this team is realistically, not delusionally in the conversation to represent the Eastern Conference held a favorite to represent the Eastern Conference in the NBA Finals is bonkers. And as much as we want to celebrate an MVP caliber kind of season from Jalen Brown and Derrick White finding his shot or Peyton Pritchard off the sixth man of the year doing the things that he is doing, really what it comes down to is, is these role guys the, this team is, you know, I know these aren't the guys that get the headlines, but Minot earlier in the year, walshireman, Ugo and these guys right now the caters even though Kate is a starter. Garza like all of these guys, like your guys that are making dick for money. Like, I mean some of these guys are like you put, put half of them to half the roster is is making a combined like 13, $14 million. And these are the dudes that no, they're not leading you per se, but many ways are carrying you and it's just, man, I, I don't know, I don't know who you give the credit to. Is it Joe for getting them to play the way they are? Is it these guys for owning the opportunity? Is it Brad Zarin and the rest of the front office for putting them on the roster in the first place? It has been unreal to watch here.
- [18:24]
C
Barrett.
- [18:24]
A
Yeah, I mean it's crazy.
- [18:26]
C
It's a combination of all those things because they look at these guys and it's specific things they asked them to do with. We know what Joe Missoula wants to do and he harps on it. Every team wants to do this. Missoula is just the most outspoken about it. He wants to win the possession game. He says it all the time. And if you look at what Hugo Gonzalez does when he's on the court, and I'm not saying it's all him, but a lot of it is him when he's on the court. The Celtics offensive rebounding Percentage goes up by 3 percentage points, which is in the 82nd percentile via cleaning the glass. And the opponent's turnover Percentage goes up 3.1 percentage points, which is in the 94th percentile via cleaning the glass. So they're turning the ball over more often when Ugo's on the court. We see what Ugo does, how he just aggravates ball handlers at points. Guys are just like, yeah, okay, you bring it up. I don't, I don't want to deal with this dude. He's, he's coming, he's picking me up at the opponent, at the other free throw line. I don't need this in my life right now. And then he's one of the best corner crashers already in the NBA. So he has that specific role. Same thing you can say about Shireman. Shireman has been incredible at those corner crashes where what Shireman does, usually Ugo will go up and sometimes he'll grab it, sometimes he'll tap it out. Shireman just the king of the tap out. He just taps it back out to the three point line and he gets extra possessions that way. And I think one of the things that's been nice to see with Shireman is, and Brad's basically been drafted in the same area the past few drafts. Obviously they moved back with the Walsh pick, but it's all these guys that are like between six six and six, eight that can sort of float between multiple positions. I've been impressed with the way Shireman's played defense. I did not see that coming. And then he has, obviously at this particular point in time, he's a more seasoned offensive player than Ugo. Like, he's a much better ball handler, he's a really crafty passer. And now we're seeing him get into the Klay Thompson, Sam Houser, no diploma three point attempts, which is a pretty impressive thing in and of itself. I think he, both him and Ugo, I think have really good instinct. So it's, it's all the, what you said about Joe, the players individually, Brad Stevens drafting these guys, but the player development, like for a guy like K, you look at all the centers that left the Celtics. Porzingis is making 30 million, he's barely played this season. Right. Even Cornet's playing, making over 10 million. And you could argue Kate has been a more impactful player by, on a per minute basis this season. As much as we love Cornet Horford, what has he done? He's making over 5 million for Golden State. That team stinks. And you look at Kada, he's making like just over $2 million million dollars this season. And if you just look at it in terms of the guys that left, Drew, who dealt with his injury situation this year, we mentioned Porzingis, Al Horford, Cornette has been solid in his role. Like, this team would be worse. And I know it's going to sound crazy. Would be worse if they actually didn't do the sell off. Like if they just brought the team back, this team would actually be worse than it is right now because of the health situation. And you could say, oh, different situations. Well, this is what we know about older players. They get hurt. And Porzingis was sick last year and they never figured that out. Right. So I'm not blaming the Celtics for that. But the. It's amazing. Like, we understood they had to make the pivot for financial reasons. Right. It was the best thing to do for the future of the organization. But for them to find all these guys that can play this way and contribute, it's really crazy. Like, juxtaposes to the Milwaukee Bucks who have they found? Like, they got Ryan Rollins from Golden State. He's their only like, good guy. That's young, like green. Yeah, okay. He can shoot. They don't have anybody on the roster and the Celtics have a million guys.
- [21:56]
B
Let's take like a.
- [21:58]
A
Well, we can keep going with this. And I want to keep going with this because I, I do. I find it really interesting. And, and we are obviously beyond the midpoint of the year. We're basically three quarters of the way through the year. But it's even a little bit beyond that actually. But it's. It's just a nice time to periodically kind of reset and evaluate what we are seeing. And by the way, shout, like just to piggyback on what Barrett just said. And ev, you know, this like, to credit our guy Landman who's come from time to time. I mean, he said months ago, months ago he texted us one day and he was like, hey guys, like just. Just kind of thinking here, you know, in his way, he's like, I. I know they had to do all the stuff they had to do financially, but like, have we ever considered that maybe they also did it for basketball reasons? Because this team is way better than it would have been keeping all of those guys around if it even had the ability to do so in the first place. But let's take a quick break. Tell you today's episode is powered by prize picks. Shoot your shot on prize picks. Get $50 instantly in lineups when you play your first for only $5. That's right. Prize picks now giving you $50 in lineups when you sign up and you play your first five dollar lineup. Prize picks makes every dunk, every dime, every board that much more exciting. So you don't miss this chance. You can't miss it. To get started on America's number one app for sports picks.
- [23:17]
B
Ev yeah, Price picks is simple to play. Just pick more or less on two to six player stat projections. Get your picks right, but cash it in and you can play a whole myriad of sports. Basketball, baseball, hockey, ufc, soccer, college basketball. With March Madness coming up. So pumped. Tennis, golf, masters right around the corner. Cannot wait for that. Esports and more.
- [23:42]
A
Kaufman.
- [23:43]
B
Guess what happened last week.
- [23:46]
A
I'm gonna guess flex play worked out for you.
- [23:50]
B
Yeah, I went two out of three again. It is just remarkable the streak that I'm on this year. It's unreal. And with that in mind, we have our flex play Friday, but we'll give it to you on a Saturday. We're gonna go first leg of the of the flex play, boys. We're going con canipple more than two and a half threes made against the spurs in the game that I think is gonna be way more entertaining than people thought at the beginning of the season. And then we're gonna go Celtics specific for the next two to go. Jalen, who's on an incredible run right now in terms of racking up assists. Jalen more than five and a half assists against the Wizards. Now he's had seven for the past seven games. First time anybody's done that since Rondo. Thank you, Dick Life.
- [24:33]
A
Appreciate that.
- [24:35]
B
Reason why this number is a little tricky is because I don't think that Jalen's gonna get a full run in here playing the Wiz. I think they'll probably take him out towards the end of this game.
- [24:43]
A
20 point favorite.
- [24:45]
B
Yeah, it's going to be embarrassing. So we're going to take that. We're going to take that because I think Jalen could be, you know, the distributor of this game. And then we're going to take Baylor Shireman, who I was trying to find a lineup projection for to get him in here. I've been so impressed the way he's played recently. So we're going Baylor Shireman, more than seven and a half rebounds and assists combined against the Wiz. I think you might just get that in rebounds. And I and it I juiced it up a little bit because I think it you can get it at four, five and a half, six and a half to seven and a half and seven and a half has got a little bit better payout on that. So I took that. I hit all three. I 4 1/2 x my money 2 out of 3 I just get my money back, which is what has been happening to me frequently. And getting your money back couldn't be any easier. You know, little 15 minutes rolls in your account. I use Venmo. It's great. And if you, you're on fire, you hit all, all of them quickly. You get early payouts too, which has never happened to me. Kaufman, we're still waiting on that. That magical day when I get to cash out early.
- [25:41]
A
We remind you prize picks, it's the place to be again. As ev just said, if your lineup is on fire Prize picks, it offers early payout regardless. Hopefully you're getting that money. Download the prize picks app today. Use code CLNS. You get $50 in lineups after playing your first for only $5. That is code CLNS. Get 50 bucks in lineups after you play your first for just $5. Prize picks. It's good to be right. We're hanging out here with Brian Barrett and it's, it's funny actually. It poetic in a way. So we take our little break there to talk about our good friends at prize picks and during that couple minutes that we stepped away this in real time, I apologize again. If you're watching on YouTube, you're listening after the fact on the podcast, but in real time. Guys, I got a slew of injury updates across the NBA for Sunday courtesy of the underdog NBA account. Two of the names on that list, Al Horford, calf listed out for Sunday. Chris Staps, Porzingis, illness management listed out for Sunday. It just again, it just keeps fe. This is be. It goes beyond age. This is just again kind of unfortunately where these guys are at in their careers, which again leads us to again just kind of celebrate the youth and the depth on this roster. That going back to sort of the way I introed this topic, I thought the Celtics would be good this year. Not this good. Not NBA Finals, potentially championship caliber good, but good. Not this tank. Seeing the lottery right now, we're already looking ahead to who do you want in the top five if the pingpong balls bounce our way, I thought the Celtics would be good. What I couldn't have been more wrong about though is I just, I, I didn't, I didn't see them getting there this way. I didn't see it, it transpiring as we are seeing it to where so much of that emphasis comes back to again, these depth guys that we just keep celebrating and talking about. I didn't see Walsh, Scheierman, you know, I'll leave Ugo out because he's a rookie. But these, you know, guys who have been around for a year, two, three years taking the leap. Garza, even within this system, you know, really being used exactly the right way. Ev, how many times, how many times did I make that stupid joke about, you know, the, I don't know if the Celtics even have a G league
- [28:16]
B
caliber front court dude with it for a month.
- [28:20]
A
Kada is a top 10 center in the NBA right now by many statistical margins. And Garza looks, honestly looks a lot better than Vovic has looked since the Celtics acquired him. So I again, just the fact that they are doing what they're doing, Barrett, specifically the way they are doing it, not to continue to harp on, on the conversation we were just having, but I, I just, I couldn't be more impressed. I really couldn't. And to me, you know, I, I, I'll make this comparison. It's not exactly apples to apples, but go with me on it. You think back to the, what was it, the 2018-19 season where the Celtics, you know, got actually it was a 1718. It was a 1718 season when they, when they bring in Gordon Hayward and they bring in Kyrie Irving and those guys and they, and they suffer their injuries and all of a sudden you've got this teenage Jason Tatum and 2021 year old Jaylen Brown and their position to take on loads more responsibility than anybody would have ever desired. That they get that early in the year and that early in their careers and they run with it. They go on that deep playoff run. No, they didn't win a championship, but it fed them going forward. This group. And we said this, this is one thing we did say at the beginning of the year, Ev. We said in a perfect world, this group is able to take advantage of not having Jason Tatum, of having all of that turnover from veterans to younger players to where suddenly the next iteration, the next incarnation of a Celtics championship of Banner 19 comes from these guys who capitalize, who thrive in this position. We telegraphed it. I just didn't actually think Barrett it would happen.
- [30:04]
C
Yeah, well, I think, and I didn't mention Kate earlier, it's good that you brought him up there because that may have been the most important piece. Because I was with you guys, I thought, hey, this could be one of, if not the worst front courts in the NBA. Like in the non definitely tanking division. Right. The teams that we knew coming into the season were trying to lose, but the teams that were actually trying because the Celtics were going to try no matter what for Cada to develop into this player. I was looking it up earlier this week. If you look at the top four guys that have played at least 1,000 minutes this year, out of the top four guys in terms of the on off numbers defensively, it's Rudiger Bears number one and then Derrick White and Keda were right in between Victor Wembanyama. Now Victor Wendama is now flipped Keda because of the game that we saw, the couple of games that we saw this week. But my overall point with that is he's become an incredible defensive anchor for this team and he knows exactly what he's supposed to do offensively. He sets screens like they're obviously they don't play five out with Keda, which the Celtics love in the past to play five out. They've adjusted to him. He's a great role man. He's actually. I've been pretty impressed with some of the passing he's been able to make where he can shoot it out to the corner, get guys open three point opportunities. But my big thing with Kate is let's see what happens in the, in the playoffs, right? Because if you look at this Eastern Conference situation and we saw him the other day where they played the Cavs, they didn't have Allen, they did have Mobley. He was good in that. He, I mean, fine in that game. But the Pistons have a big front court. When we're talking about Durin and we're talking about Stewart and then the Knicks, we saw what happened to the Celtics in the playoffs last year. Mitchell Robinson, who I still think Joe Missoula probably thinks Mitchell Robinson is the best player in the league by the way that they operated in that particular series. But the point being is you're going to have a lot of bigs, a lot of front courts to go through. The Vucevic thing, I think Garza has been better for this team too. I agree with you on that. But let's see how that front court holds up. But the bigger, more important thing that you mentioned there is if you look at where OKC is that with all these young players around their young stars, San Antonio is now in that same place where they have all these young guys around them, the Celtics. This is a critical year to find out about a few guys like, hey, if one of these wings hits, it'll be huge. Is Keita really a starting center? And so now what you've done is you've sort of. And Pritchard's gone to a different level in his game. This year, where he's in the 95th percentile as an isolation score, I mean, he's incredible. He's putting guys on skates half the time. But my overwhelming or my bigger point with that is just the fact that, all right, you have two guys that are on supermax contracts. When you're talking about Tatum and you're talking about Jalen, they have huge contracts and they deserve those contracts. So what you have to do in this new world is fine players on cheap contracts. And the most important thing about the way that the Celtics have found these guys, all these guys are young and developing players. It's not like these journeymen they've brought in. There are a bunch of young guys that can now grow with Tatum and. And Jalen and Derrick White. And the thing about it is you already fought, you already have the stars, so you needed the supporting players to go around them. And look, I think all these guys have varying upsides. Like, Ugo has the highest upside of this group just because of the raw athleticism. Like, we haven't seen much of his offensive game yet. I've been a little bit more impressed with his handle recently. Had that one game against the warriors, put it behind his back, drove all the way to the basket. It was incredible play by Ugo. But I just feel like the organization is in a really good spot because of what Brad has done in the front office. And then secondarily, everybody that is part of that sort of culture, developing these players. Like, it's incredible to see how well all these guys have played when they've gotten their opportunities.
- [33:33]
B
Yeah, and we're not even talking about Ron Harper, who was just impressed the hell out of the past couple of games. Like, he's a G league guy. They brought him up because they need an end of the bench guy. They got to fill the minimum rosters or whatever. And now you're looking at it like they gotta. Conan, we were talking about this. The other. We were talking about this. Was it the. The Oklahoma City game or was the spurs game where. Where we were both. Oh, what kind of contract does Ron Harper get now? Like, this is getting to the point where they. They might have too many good bench guys to keep them all going into the future. And you're gonna figure out what the hell they're gonna do with some of these guys. But, like, Ron Harper comes off the bench and. And like, not even off the bench, like off the bus from Maine comes in and just. It contributes immediately in a couple different areas. He's hitting, he's hitting catch and shoot jump shots. He's putting the ball on the deck a little bit. He defends his ass off. I don't think you do. You guys know what Ron Harper's like, wingspan to height ratio is.
- [34:32]
A
I, I can't say I spent a
- [34:33]
B
lot of time I gotta do it on my other computer because I got two going.
- [34:38]
A
This one doesn't freeze on you.
- [34:40]
B
Yeah, exactly.
- [34:41]
C
I mean, I know Walsh is like 7:2. He's 7:1. He's over 7:1.
- [34:45]
A
Yeah.
- [34:46]
B
Hang on. So Ron Harper is 6:5, technically. And I just got wingspan. Hang on a minute.
- [35:00]
C
7 1. It's over 7 1.
- [35:01]
B
It's over 7 one. 65 with a 7 like 72 wingspan. Like that guy's gonna. If, like, if he just develops a little bit, he should be a defensive monster with, with. With arms like that, that go on forever, like. And you look at Walsh, Walsh is the same thing. His arms go on forever. They just keep finding these guys that. And this is, I think, the secret sauce, because I was listening to Tim Legler with, With, with. With Bill and they were talking about how Boston and they didn't get into the, the Thunder game because it hadn't happened yet. Yet. But Boston's ability to communicate defensively with these wings so that nobody misses assignments and nobody's like wide open anywhere is the reason why they're so good. I know a lot of people want to talk about offense, offense, offense and pace and all that fun stuff. It's the defensive side of the ball that they're going to probably win a lot of games in the playoffs on. It's because they just have so many hybrid guys. Walsh, ugo, Baylor, Tatum, Brown, White can all guard up and guard down. It's insane that they have like seven guys like this. It's crazy. And they remind me of, in a, in a way, they're. I think they're the closest thing in the league to last year's Pacers team, where they have 12 guys off the bench and every one of them can play. And you're going to see them all, I think mostly in the playoffs when they play people.
- [36:20]
A
Well, that's what, that's exactly where I wanted this to go with Barrett, you know, after all of that. And I agree with everything I've just said. Barrett, how, how deep is this rotation in a, in a playoff series?
- [36:32]
C
I'd say Walsh is out. Like, he has been out in a lot of these games that Tatum plays. So it's your starting group with Hauser, of course, in There with Tatum, Kada, Derrick White, Jaylen Brown. Ugo's playing. Shireman's definitely playing. One of those centers is going to have to play. So Garza, I think it's just going to be difficult for Vucevic when he comes back from this injury is right around when the playoffs start. Start. He hasn't been that good. I actually think Garza brings you more in terms of he's a better offensive rebounder. He just. And this isn't a slight on Vucevich, I guess it kind of is. Vic is really slow. And Garza does play. Yeah, he's incredibly slow. I did it looks like he's got a backpack trying to run up and down the court. I'm like, dude, can we. Can we move a little bit faster here? I got the idea of him, too, right? Because look, Simon's with this team. We understand why they did the move. You save money. And Tatum was coming back. So how many lineups were you going to have? Simons out there? Right? Like, basically what they've done is they've had. They stagger Tatum and Jalen a lot, and they're pairing White with Tatum and Pritchard with Jalen, which I think makes totally sense and total sense in terms of how they play. But Pritchard's the other guy that's going to be in there. And I think right now, like, if I were to. If you guys are going to answer this question which I'm about to ask you, so you're going to answer this question. Who do you think is ahead on Missoula's depth chart right now? Harper or Walsh? I think it would be Harper right now.
- [37:53]
B
Harper.
- [37:54]
A
Yeah.
- [37:54]
C
Because Harper will shoot. I don't understand. Like, Walsh, occasionally he'll. He'll hit a wing three. He'll hit a corner three. How does anybody go for the guy's head fake? Like, he. He head fakes every. Somehow he gets to the basket that way. I'm like, who is going for this head fake? I don't understand it.
- [38:10]
B
He's shooting, I think, on catch and shoot threes. I think he's up in the 40, though. I think he's. He does. He doesn't shoot a lot, but when he shoots them, they're good ones.
- [38:17]
A
And Harper is just. Just so you know, he's 40 shooter about 35 from 3. Doesn't get to the free throw line all that much. Obviously, Walsh is a 53 shooter about 41 from 3. But for me, and. And I don't know volume with both
- [38:33]
C
those Guys, Yeah, it is.
- [38:34]
A
It's low volume for sure, and the minutes are low. You know, like Harper right now in obviously a smaller sample size. He's played 20 games, but he's averaging 12 minutes. Walsh at 58 games, 20 starts, averaging about 17 minutes. But guys, I mean, maybe for me it's the total package and maybe I'm being naive about this, but I feel like that's sort of the prism by which Joe looks at a lot of this stuff. So the defense first and foremost. And I'm already giving Harper an edge there over Walsh, as much as I like Walsh and have been praising Walsh up and down. But more than that, would you like to guess what the assist to turnover ratio is for each of these guys?
- [39:10]
C
Is it a negative with Walsh? I'd imagine it is.
- [39:13]
A
Walsh is at 1.3, Harper is at 3.8.
- [39:17]
B
There you go.
- [39:17]
A
That is a massive, massive difference.
- [39:21]
B
Yeah. Can't turn the ball over. And like I got. I think Walsh has come a long way, no question about it. But yeah, and this is a team that prioritizes not turning the ball over. They're the best in the league at it. So, you know, they, they again win the possession.
- [39:35]
A
Again. We're talking about a of ton, tiny, tiny sample size by comparison. But Harper's second on the team. I mean, Peyton Pritchard is first.
- [39:42]
B
Unbelievable. Pritchard's what, like 4.5 or something?
- [39:46]
A
4.0 on the nose.
- [39:48]
C
Well, dude, he's got that, he's got that thing on a string right now, like his ball handling. And look, we've said it pre in previous seasons, but the fact that he's become. His usage rate has gone up this season and he's actually become, as I alluded to earlier, one of the Most. He's averaging 1.21 points per possession as an isolation scorer. And I get it. Like he's not. He doesn't have the opponent's best guy on him and at times not even the opponent's best guard on him. But I don't know how he is able to create so much space. Like his step back isn't really even a step back. It's like a double step back. He goes from like the elbow, he gets to the elbow and then somehow he gets all the way out to the three point line and then he does the other move where he gets into the paint and somehow he's then taking like three steps backwards to take like a fall away too, that when they go in, they, they never hit the rim. They just, he's got the perfect arc in this, like, hit. That guy's work ethic from, like, when he was younger. Like, I know you guys have seen that video of him, like, dribbling the ball. Oh, yeah. But you also see, like, the. The drills that he does where he's, like, on one leg dribbling the ball, doing stuff, like, all these workouts that he does. His, like, I'd say he's a top five ball handler in the NBA. Like, it's not as flashy as, like, obviously, I think Kyrie's probably the best ball handler of all time. And it's not as flashy as, like, if you go back to Jamal Crawford, right? Jamal Crawford's got the big crossover. He's got the double behind the back move. You think about, like, back in the day, like, Iverson's had the big, huge crossover. Marbury had a huge crossover. Pritchard's is, like, all compact. It's all, like, functional stuff.
- [41:24]
A
So I'm not.
- [41:25]
C
I'm not saying, like, I'm not putting them in that category as these, like, flashy ball handlers, but just in terms of a pure ball handler and getting to where he wants with his handle, it's unbelievable. Like, I don't know how many guys have better handle than him in the game right now. It's crazy.
- [41:38]
A
Well, I hate that you didn't mention white chocolate, but we'll. We'll get over that.
- [41:41]
B
We'll. We'll put.
- [41:42]
A
Put our guy, Jason Williams, aside. You're right. It. It just. It looks. It just. It's as flashy as some of the other guys are, and taking nothing away from their talent. They just, you know, extra layer of it. Pritchard, It's. It's. To your point. It's not, like, to the eye. It's. It's not insane until you're really dissecting. Like, my God, how many times is that ball hitting the floor as he's working, you know, between the legs or trying to get around a guy? I mean, it's just. It's such a right to the Going back to the garage exercises and drills. It's just. It's. It's low, tight, compact dribbles to the floor and moving quickly.
- [42:20]
C
And he gets tired watching it. Dude. You get tired watching. It's like, dude, how many. How many freaking dribbles did he just take? And, like, you're trying to guard that. You're like, okay, which. Which way is he going?
- [42:29]
A
It's just.
- [42:30]
C
He has the defender on a string
- [42:31]
A
every time Watch the stomach with Peyton Pritchard. The way they teach you when you're a kid.
- [42:35]
C
Yeah. And, like, I don't know how he. Like, he has his body the way that he does. Like, and I understand he's not the tallest guy. He's like six foot one or whatever, but, like, at times it looks like his, like, back is almost, like, in his stomach, I should say. It's, like, almost parallel to the ground. He's, like, at a right angle. Like, I don't know how he gets that low.
- [42:55]
B
Well, that's why it's. That's why it's tight. He's just so good at, like, keeping it so low and keeping his composure and his balance. Like, that's. That's where. If you watch him in the. In the garage do all those things, that's where it translates, is when he's in the middle of all this traffic and he's so low to the ground, you can't pick his pocket. It's like, almost impossible for you to pick his pockets. The ball's a little to the ground. You gotta follow him, basically. He has so much control of that thing.
- [43:17]
A
It's.
- [43:17]
B
It's ridiculous. I. I'm. Again, you talk about guys leveling up this year. He's. He's right at the top of the list of guys that have leveled up between Kada, Brown and Pritchard.
- [43:26]
A
It's.
- [43:26]
B
It's been a ridiculous run. I. The only thing about this, just to kind of keep this. This road trip kind of in. In the, you know, the forefront of this conversation, because I. I think we learned a lot about this team. And, like, the one thing that I thought about as they finished with OKC on. On late night on was it Thursday night was super late. I just thinking about, like, man, like, I can see it. I. I can. I can see the finals run. I could. There's a. There's a path.
- [43:59]
A
Well, what's annoying is you didn't get either. You got two. To me, like, all due respect to the Nuggets, and I love the Nuggets, we talk about them all the time, but it does feel like it's going to be either the Thunder or the spurs in the NBA Finals. And what's a little annoying, not that those games weren't both competitive, is you didn't see either game at full strength. And I'm not even talking about Vuch. Obviously, the injury is the injury. But Jalen getting booted early for what, by the way, was not as bogus as everybody out there on Social media wants to paint it as. You got to control your emotions, Jalen. That's just the reality of it. And then the second game where, again, you're down two starters. So that was the annoying thing. Like, it's. It could have been. I mean, there were fun games to watch anyway, and I think it was ev. To your point, encouraging road trip, and you can see the path and all of these things, but, man, I would have loved to watch those games at full strength.
- [44:49]
B
But the thing is, like, they went against Cleveland, okc, and in San Antonio. Those are what, three of the top eight teams in the league, competitive as hell in every game, and they beat Cleveland. You know, they were up a bunch in that game because Cleveland couldn't find the ocean at all. But, I mean, they were highly competitive in all three games. And you're starting to think about, you know, the playoffs and the structure of everything. I'm like, man, this team could really do it. I really. I didn't. I was not even entertaining this because it's. This whole year has been so gravy and unbelievable. So many reasons. But since once Tatum comes back, you know, you're. You're. You're. I. I think everything kind of changes in terms of what you're. What you're allowing yourself to believe. After the OKC game, I was like, no, this team can definitely. Can definitely make the finals.
- [45:31]
A
And if.
- [45:32]
B
Look, that Oklahoma City team last year, an unbelievable team, one of the best teams you've ever seen in your life with the Game seven with Indiana, and if. And if Halliburton doesn't tear his Achilles in the first couple minutes of that game, who knows, Pacers could have won that series. So I don't. I don't think any of these teams, whether it's Boston, whether it's Detroit, Oklahoma City, San Antonio, Denver, I don't think any of these teams are infallible. And I think anybody can win this thing. I really do. I really do.
- [45:59]
C
Yeah, I look at it, too, as it pertains to the East. So I think when you're looking at the Knicks, and look, the Knicks beat the Celtics last year fair and square. Tatum was having a great game at 42 points. They were going to lose that game and go down three to one. Obviously, we would have loved to see what Tatum could have done, because he was. That was one of his best playoff games to see if they could come back from 3. 1. They came back from 3. 0 before to force a game 7. Of course, a couple years ago against Miami and Tatum is a better player at that point, but they got beat, so the Knicks could still beat them. But I will say, when you have your point guard and your center that are both really bad defenders, like, I have a tough time seeing the Knicks win three series to get to the NBA Finals. I think Cleveland has potential. And it's going to be important to see Mobley and Allen with Harden because both those guys have been. First it was Mobley dealing with an injury, then Allen's been dealing with an injury. And Allen and Harden have much better chemistry than Harden has with Mobley right now. But I think that's going to be like. From just like a talent perspective. I think that's the second most talented team in the east outside of the Celtics with the Pistons. I look at that team, I just don't think they have enough offense. I know this is not an original thought, but you'd like to have a second guy on your team that can dribble. Like, that's kind of an important skill set in the NBA and they don't have that right now, unfortunately for them. I mean, I think they should have done more at the. That the trading deadline. So I do think out of that top group, the Celtics are the least flawed. And we still have to find out. Find out, like I said, about the centers. But in the postseason. But I look at the rest of the east and like a couple of months ago, I thought the. The east is going to be like, easy in the playoffs. But Miami, I mean, all bam jokes aside, Miami's playing really well right now. They have sort of figured some stuff out. They're playing well. They got both. They're playing both the bigs at the same time now with wear and bam. And we've seen like, there's this new trend in the NBA where teams are playing big now. This is something that in the past is all, hey, we need a position. Versatility, right. Positionless basketball. Well, now it's kind of swung back the other way where you kind of need the bigs and then. And I know Tatum didn't play in the game, but does anybody want to see Charlotte in a series? I don't want any part of that team, especially considering the knowledge that they have on the other side with Charles Lee, who's done an outstanding job coaching that team. And guys are just really difficult to defend. They have to. What I was saying about Detroit, and this is not to say that Charlotte's better than Detroit. They've been better since the beginning of the new year. But Knipple can make plays off the dribble and shoot. Lamelo can make plays off the dribble and shoot. Brandon Miller can do it. Now, I think where their issue is is with their bigs. I know Diabate has like good numbers, but their bigs are not great. I think the Celtics like on the other end of the court, I think the Celtics can take advantage of some of what Charlotte can't do defensively in a series. And obviously I'd pick the Celtics to win, but I don't want to play that series. That team wants to play at a crazy breakneck pick taste in terms of that. I'm just talking about their half court offense like they're final. They're picking for each other. It's just, I don't want, I don't want no part of that. It's kind of like I know they swept Indiana, but remember how crazy that offense was when the Celtics played him in the conference finals where it's like these guys are just hitting crazy mid rangers and they're just flying around in the half court. I mean that was really difficult. That was a. I know it was a sweep, but they were difficult to defend. And I think some of the Celtics have even acknowledged that. I want no part of playing Charlotte just because I think it's going to take a lot of energy to defeat that team. And Miami's. Miami, we, we know the scars there.
- [49:13]
A
So look, not only do I believe Boston's going farther than New York this postseason, March 14, mark it down. Not that I haven't alluded to it earlier, I think Boston's going to be the one to eliminate New York. I think the Celtics are getting revenge off of last year. I think the bracket is going to align that way. I think the Celtics will take down the Knicks. I think if I'm going to go a step further with this crystal ball, I think they're going to do it in their house. I think it's going to happen at msg and all those Bing bong Hope outside are going to be it. You're just going. It's going to be storybook from Jason Tatum with the way all of this is going to go, but I want to use that to transition to Tatum before we're, you know, self imposed out of time here. I know it's a podcast. We could go forever, but it's. It's kind of what I mean, I don't feel bad necessarily. I'm sure there are a lot of people out there that want to hear more about Tatum and And we've been saving that partially because last week with Grandy was the Tatum show. Talking about his return. Well, three games now. And Barrett, you highlighted some of this earlier. 27 minutes per on the nose, by the way. 27.0, 19.7 points, 6.7 rebounds, 3.7 assists, one steal, no blocks, 1.3 on the turnovers 10. That's a 2.8 assist to turnover ratio. He is shooting 40% from the field, 29% from three on a ridiculous 10 attempts per game. I would like that to come down. Free throws are about 86%. He's not driving in the way that no shock there, but only 2.3 attempts per. He's not aggressively getting himself to the line that will come. He's still getting comfortable. I don't know how anybody out there could be the least bit disappointed by what you've seen so far from Jason Tatum. In fact, I think it's the opposite. What he is doing so far through three games is so beyond, I think what reasonable expectations were out of the chute off the 10 months out, 42 and a half weeks, whatever it was, of, you know, almost 300 days not playing any competitive basketball, no training camp, no preseason, really hardly any practices even with teammates just based on what their schedule and travel and everything. Looks like for him to walk back out on the floor some bit a little forced and that's okay. He's trying to find his footing, I get it. But for him to be averaging 20 and 7 and showing in flashes at least the old Tatum every once in a while, obviously he's not there yet, but every once in a while you're getting a little. The little bursts, the little moments like that dunk followed by the three pointer in that first game, like 30 seconds apart. You're getting little moments. I just, man, well, I, I can't. I'm not wishing time away, but I can't wait to see what this looks like come round two of the playoffs after, you know, another. Whatever it is, five weeks of watching Tatum knock the rust off.
- [52:21]
C
Yeah, I think he's looked as good as you could possibly expect from a guy coming back less than 10 months from an Achilles situation where he tore his Achilles and he's already back. I think there's a couple of things. Like I think probably by the. When we look at this at the end of the year, I think the shooting percentages are going to look bad. I think it's just going to take him a while to get into a rhythm. And I still think There is this part, like, we got to see what he looks like at the end here, because, yeah, he has come back, but he's only played three games. Let's see how this looks in a couple of weeks. And the other component that I mentioned here is I think it's real interesting the way they've run some offense for him, where in the first game, he was, like, coming out of the corner a couple times getting screens. And the Celtics offense is a little bit different than the. Than the offense he's played before. And that's why I do think when you look at how Missoula is sort of balancing these minutes, I mentioned him with White all the time, but also you see, like, Hauser is playing a lot of his minutes with Tatum. Like, those guys are on the court together because of the familiarity there. So. And the other element to this is, I would just say, the good thing for the Celtics. And this is probably one of the most important things, if not the most important thing that has happened all season.
- [53:26]
A
1.
- [53:27]
C
Jalen Brown, as we just saw the other night against okc, he is a legitimate bonafide number one option. And I know we've had these questions before about Jalen. He is a legit number one option. Like, when he wants to get to his spots, he can. He overwhelms defenders from a physical standpoint. So, like, they're trying to run a lot of offense through Tatum. And if it looks like it does right now, okay, you still have a pretty good. Like, a really good player, a really good option as Jason Tatum, who's your could be. Like, right now, Jalen's the. Like, Jalen's just better than Tatum right now because Tatum is still making his way back from this injury. But it's okay if Tatum doesn't get back to the guy he was last year before you get to the playoffs in some sense, because you do have a guy that can take over games in Jalen Brown. So I think from that perspective, because you have what you had from Jalen, I think it gives Tatum a little bit of a cushion here where he doesn't have to be Jason Tatum from last year. Now, hopefully, by the time, knock on wood, you get to this point, like, there is a situation where I think by the time you get to the Eastern Conference finals, he could actually look like, like close to himself again. But he's got sort of this buffer because he has Jalen playing with him where it's okay that he's not sort of the guy that he was a season ago. And I also think it's okay to admit that, like, as crazy as we all wanted to go after the games that we've seen Tatum play, because it's great to see him out there. He's not the same guy yet. I mean, I think it's normal that he's not the same guy yet. I mean, you've seen it in terms of. I think it does help him that he's never been like the most explosive athlete. Like, that's not how he gets his advantages. And I think because he's so big, right, he's a 6, 9, 610 guy, I think he has built in advantages that they can take advantage of just from his height. But I think all in all he's looked, I mean, it's been impressive to see him come back.
- [55:07]
B
No question. I just hope that the, the balance at the end of these games because like, you go, you look at that Oklahoma City game as a great example. You know, it's going to come down to Shay and, and somebody on the other side going shot for shot. And I'm gonna be honest with you, boys. In this particular season, I want Jalen going shot for shot at the end of these games. I don't care if it's against Shay, whoever it is. I want jail in there and I want Jalen to have the ball instead of having having Tatum with it. I think Jalen's been. He just gets into his stuff a little bit faster than, than Jason does. And I think the one thing that I think is really interesting is the staggering of the two guys. You could not. I think the, the style of play is so different. Like, Jason is very deliberate, walks the ball up very slow. And I do think that Jalen does try and push, push, push, push a lot more. And if you've watched, you know, they haven't had a ton of time to do this just because like Jaylen got, was tossed in the first 15 minutes of the game against San Antonio. And Tatum obviously didn't play in the Thunder game, but if you had the opportunity to watch the difference between those two styles in those games, you, I think you'd have a pretty clear indication that Jalen is the guy that should be the guy with this ball in his hand at the end of the game because it's always been Tatum and I, I get why. But Jaylen's just been on so good this year and he's a better player than Tatum is right now. No question about him.
- [56:30]
A
Yeah, I think it's fair. I mean, he should be though.
- [56:33]
C
Off.
- [56:33]
A
Off of, you know, again, no injury. Playing an entire season hasn't everybody wants to. Stan Van Gundy couldn't get enough of this the other night. The whole, you know, two MVP candidates going head to head like, I'm sorry, until SGA or YIC or, you know, some of these guys miss more games. Jaylen Brown is not an MVP candidate. You know, unless we are loosely defining that by he will receive votes. He's not going to sniff winning the award. And that is not a knock on Jaylen Brown. He's had a career season. It's been incredible to watch. This team is not where it is without Jaylen Brown. So don't any of you in the YouTube comment section pick that up. Goffman hates Jaylen. This is more Jaylen slander. Jaylen Brown is everything I wish I could be in this world. Jalen is incredible. Doesn't mean he's going to win MVP or that he should win mvp. Joe Missoula should be the coach of the year. And the fact that that probably won't happen in favor of Bickerstaff, you know, eking out the number one seed, that's asinine. That's blasphemy. But that's a whole other thing and it doesn't really matter. And I appreciate that Joe doesn't give a crap about that. And I, I think maybe on some level, but not outwardly. And I think this team is. Is now where earlier in the year you could do the holes. This team being underrated, Are they being undervalued? Are they not being talked about? All gone. All gone. Everybody nationally is bending over backwards to praise the Boston Celtics up and down is lining up to say this is the team to beat in the East. Even if you don't believe it, people are going. Nick Wright is saying the Boston Celtics are going to win the NBA championship. So listen, this will play out however it plays out. But the ride. Not to harp on things that we've talked about before, ev. You know, in past seasons even, and I know Grandy has. Has gone on soliloquies about this of late, but the. The specific path and lack of expectation going into this year versus where we are right now and what is still to come in the months ahead, hopefully, is a large part of what makes this particular season so much fun. Because next year all those expectations return and they're going to move, you know, make whatever moves they make in the off season to, you know, surround Brown and a healthy Tatum and the depth and the young guys and the pieces and give Joe all of the, you know, hopefully necessary components to be firmly right there entrenched among the championship favorites come the offseason on through the year, and hopefully they can live up to that and be in the dance and everything. But right now, they had to earn this. They had to earn their place. Right now, I mean, The Celtics were 60 to 1. Preseason odds to win the championship, something like that. You know, now it's like six to one. So, again, so much fun. Tatum, I think, is going to be a big part of it down the stretch. I think he's going to have to be, which is an unfair expectation to put upon him. But if this team is going to fully Barrett climb up that mountain, we all know how they're going to get there. And it's not Jalen alone. He can't do it by himself. Not a knock. Most teams can't.
- [59:42]
C
Yeah. And I'm optimistic that we're going to see Tatum continue to get better as this thing goes on. I mean, it's real difficult to do. I mean, think about it. If you were a major league baseball player coming in two thirds of the season or even more than that, 2/3 of the season in, and they said, hey, you're not even getting spring training right. Like, baseball players are down there two weeks getting their timing right, and Tatum's coming into the middle of the season, where this team is at this point, when he comes back, they're second in the east, playing at this high level, and he's trying to get back and fit it now. But I will say this just in terms of Jalen, I think we all owe Tracy McGrady. We got to say thank you to Tracy McGrady, because after 2019, apparently Jalen was going to ask for a trade. He goes out to Houston to hang out with TMac. And he said this on TMac and Vince Carter's podcast. Yeah, that he told them, no, you got to realize, like, what's there for you, like, having Tatum next to you. And I think part of that is, you know, T. Mac and Vince Carter, of course, they coming.
- [60:36]
B
Coming from two guys that should never have broken up. That sounds. Yeah, that means a lot.
- [60:40]
C
I mean, dude. And I know everybody talks about, like, Penny Hardaway and his injuries, like, what he would have been if he never got injured. But T. Mac, man, that dude was. He's six, eight, essentially. Like, he could play point guard. Like, his career got robbed, basically because of the back injuries. Him and Grant Hill. To me, like, those guys.
- [60:58]
B
Grant Hill? Yep.
- [60:59]
C
Yeah. Like Those two guys and Penny Hardaway just stunk. But thank you, Tracy McGrady. I think every Celtics fan wants to thank Tracy for this.
- [61:07]
B
I mean, among other things, he trains with Tracy in the off season and you can clearly, you can see the stuff that TMAC and him have worked on. I mean, it's just.
- [61:14]
C
Yeah, oh, yeah.
- [61:15]
B
The footwork, all that mid range stuff and the footwork. That's all TMAC right there. Well, I mean, I shouldn't say it's all tmac. Jalen obviously puts in the work, but.
- [61:22]
A
Yeah, for sure. Well, again, Celtics massive 20 point favorites coming up in this Saturday night game, which by. I, I don't even know the last time I saw a team favored by 20 points in an NBA game. It's as it happened all season. I don't think it has. But then you got the Suns who have, you know, come back down to earth. Little three game homestand punctuated by Al Horford's return to the Garden with the Golden State warriors, where maybe this time around he'll divulge the real reason that he wanted to leave Boston. Because apparently it wasn't money or chasing championships. And he's going to put that out in his book one day. Yeah.
- [62:06]
B
Did you see that Porzingis on this road trip? He's have. He has coming up right now. He's going to play every single former team he's been on. No, it's amazing.
- [62:19]
C
His reaction was so funny to that too. He's like, really?
- [62:21]
A
All of them?
- [62:22]
B
Yep.
- [62:23]
A
That's hilarious. Let me pull up Gold and let's also.
- [62:26]
C
He's not. He's not gonna play them.
- [62:28]
B
All right. He's playing. I don't explain to any of them.
- [62:30]
C
Yeah, I still can't understand that situation.
- [62:35]
A
So Gold state, New York, Washington, Boston, Detroit. That's incredible. Atlanta, Dallas. Yeah, that's a. That's quite the trip. New York, Washington, Boston, Detroit, Atlanta, Dallas. That's nuts.
- [62:51]
B
All of them.
- [62:51]
A
That's. That's crazy. Yeah. Can we get them on the Pistons real quick?
- [62:58]
B
Unprecedented. Yeah, I know, right?
- [63:01]
A
Just for a game. Come on back. Oh, all right. Well, again, check out Barrett Ringer and Spotify off the pike podcast. It's Brian Barrett on Twitter. We always like to thank you for supporting our good friends over at Prize Picks. Remind you to check out the CLNS Media YouTube page, the all access page, specifically for great Celtics content. Hopefully as you feel this show is and you can rate review, subscribe to the podcast if you just want the audio version and you don't want to look at these three gentlemen. And there are I I will direct you to. I rarely do this. I should do it more to one Evan Valenti's Instagram page for active stories about more great sponsors that are on the way right here on Celtics Beat. So, boys, always fun. I said it before. Welcome to March. I know it's mid March, but the madness is coming. Conference tournaments wrapping up and the field of 68 will be unveiled in a matter of hours. So should be a a good time for the tourney. Unless, of course, you're a Syracuse fan like the three of us. Barrett, thank you so much.
- [64:07]
C
Anytime, fellas. Enjoyed it.
- [64:09]
A
All right. For E.V. i am Adam, of course, Brian. We thank everyone behind the scenes as well. We will talk to you again next time here on Celtic Speed.
- [64:22]
B
Oh, come on.