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668: Jaylen is a Team Player; Leader w/ Gary Washburn

Celtics Beat

Sun Mar 22 2026

Summary

Celtics Beat Ep. 668: Jaylen is a Team Player; Leader w/ Gary Washburn

Date: March 22, 2026 | Host: Adam Kaufman (with Evan Valenti) | Guest: Gary Washburn (Boston Globe, Big Three NBA Podcast)

Overview

This episode dives deep into the state of the Boston Celtics during a pivotal stretch of the NBA regular season, focusing in particular on Jaylen Brown’s team-first mentality and leadership. Adam Kaufman and Evan Valenti are joined by veteran Celtics reporter Gary Washburn, who shares insight from his recent coverage—including interactions with Celtics legend Robert Parish—and thoughtful commentary on team development, roster construction, the evolving Tatum-Brown dynamic, the league-wide awards race, and even the impact of NIL/transfer rules on March Madness.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Celtics' Current Success: Culture, Depth, and Leadership

[02:26–04:45]

The Celtics are riding a four-game winning streak, sitting at 47–23, just behind the Pistons for the #1 seed.
High expectations inside and outside the building—beyond what anyone imagined pre-season.
Robert Parish is a big admirer of Joe Mazzulla’s “all-in” culture: any player, anytime, must be ready to contribute.
“He really, really likes the kind of the culture that's being built, obviously, the Joe Mazzulla culture. Play hard, regardless of if you’re playing 30 minutes or 30 seconds.”
— Gary Washburn [04:45]

Team Atmosphere & Locker Room Chemistry

[04:45–07:16]

Parish praises the Celtics for not having any “prima donnas.”
Strong locker room with players who like each other—the necessary chemistry for a championship.

“...a lot of guys that like each other, that's the necessary chemistry for the championship. And I think Parish noticed that.”
— Gary Washburn [07:14]

2. The Celtics’ Bench: From Question Mark to Secret Weapon

[07:16–16:39]

The depth is a true differentiator: role guys like Hugo Gonzalez, Baylor Scheierman, Jordan Walsh, and Luka Garza have become consistent contributors.
Initial fears about the weak front court have been “completely flipped.”
Unexpected players stepping up:
- Hugo Gonzalez: “No one knew what to expect...ends up basically etching a role as kind of the energy guy and a guy who's starting to hit the corner three.” [09:52]
- Baylor Scheierman: Surpassed expectations as a rebounder and hustle player.
- Neemias Queta (“K”): Worked his way from a struggling big to a reliable starter.
- Ron Harper Jr.: Came into camp in shape, transformed into a legitimate NBA contributor.
- Luka Garza: Excellent rebounding adds “major value,” forcing him into the Celtics’ regular rotation.

Roster Construction & Future Planning

[16:39–22:27]

With Tatum and Brown ultimately taking up ~70% of the cap, hitting on cheap depth is non-negotiable.
“The only way you're going to make that work, obviously, is with depth guys. And right now, I’m just looking at salaries for next year...it looks like all of these guys that I just mentioned, that you outlined, can play.”
— Adam Kaufman [18:24]
Celtics are well-positioned to “run it back” with minor tweaks: smart management, cheap role players, and key extensions (e.g., Derrick White, Payton Pritchard’s contract praised as a bargain).
Development pipeline is now a true asset: “You’ve got to have guys in your organization who don’t make a lot of money, who play above their contracts.”
— Gary Washburn [22:27]

3. Development System: How Boston Found Its Edge

[25:01–32:17]

Patience and a clear system separate the Celtics from other franchises.
Past failures (James Young, RJ Hunter) led to a more refined developmental approach; Sam Hauser as a “Max Strus walked so Hauser could run” type of story.
“The Celtics have just shown patience. I think Brad [Stevens] has a culture that he likes and I think that they’ve learned from some of their past mistakes.”
— Gary Washburn [26:02]
Today: homegrown, multi-year projects like Queta and Hauser pay dividends. Even late picks (Grant Williams, Romeo Langford trade, etc.) are examples of learning from prior mistakes.

4. The "Jays" Dynamic: Jaylen Brown’s Leadership, Team Play, and Media Narratives

[35:11–48:42]

With Tatum only just back from injury, Brown’s MVP-level play has fueled media/fan debates over whose team it is.
Gary on the “who’s team is it?” framing: “A lot of that conversation is stupid.”
— Adam Kaufman [35:11]
“Jalen does not have to do that. ... He could just be like, okay, dude, you’re not where you’re at, I am where I’m at. I am the a guy on this team right now. I’m going to score all the points. I’m gonna take over. He’s not doing that.”
— Gary Washburn [39:28]
Jaylen goes out of his way to help Tatum reintegrate, including playmaking and support on the floor.
Media narratives inflating minor statements—Gary criticizes “pundits who don’t go to games” and “psychoanalysis from afar” as a distortion:

“You get people who don’t go to games, who’ve never talked, had a conversation with either of these guys giving their Jason/Jaylen...synopsis of their damn relationship.” — Gary Washburn [45:23]
Brown is showing leadership, adjusting to the “alpha–beta” dynamic, and still pushing for both personal and team success.

“He has been a complete leader. So I’m not sure what people expect out of Jalen...of course he enjoys the respect, the recognition, but he’s been all-in.” [45:45]

On Athlete Honesty and the Social Media Culture

[48:44–52:01]

The episode explores how fans/media simultaneously demand athlete authenticity and then criticize it.
“We want guys to be authentic, but we want them to be authentic in our way.”
— Evan Valenti [49:44]
“As reporters, that’s what you want...but you like the honesty. You like when someone bears their soul. We tend to only like when someone bears their soul when [their career] is over.”
— Gary Washburn [50:54]

5. Broader NBA Issues: Awards, the 65-Game Minimum, and “Load Management”

[63:16–71:08]

All-NBA and MVP voting thrown into flux by new 65-game rule; Cade Cunningham’s absence could cost him awards.
“I like the 65 game limit...we tend to have short-term history— we did not like guys winning awards playing 50 of the 82 games.”
— Gary Washburn [64:19]
Discussion about whether the threshold should be moved, and how other sports compare (e.g., minimum games played for MLB MVPs).
Ultimately: “People complained about load management, now they complain about the number of games.”
— Evan Valenti [71:02]

6. Quick Hitters and Memorable Moments

On Celtics Historical Coverage & Myths

Hilarious Maxwell/Parish anecdotes about how the media portrayed wins/losses along racial lines in the 1980s.

“Every time we would lose, it’d be me and Chief walking off the court with our heads down like the brothers failed us again...”
— [61:08]

On March Madness, NIL, and the Death of Cinderella Stories

[71:17–82:09]

Kaufman: “It feels like the Cinderella stories of March Madness...are probably a thing of the past.”
Washburn laments the changing transfer/NIL era—less loyalty, four schools in four years, “old men” playing college ball, saps the magic of mid-major runs.
“You don’t have the same loyalty and dedication to the players because they bounce around. These guys don’t have a problem going to four schools in four years.”
— Gary Washburn [73:25]

Notable Quotes

On Team Depth:

“If you do one thing really well, you have major value. And if you offensive rebound well, if you get your team extra possessions, you're going to be a valuable player.”
— Gary Washburn [11:35]

On Jaylen Brown Adjusting to Tatum’s Return:

“He wants Jason to get going. And I’ve seen them...passing each other the ball. They’re giving each other the...like, ‘got you’...I just don’t see a problem. I just don’t see...I just think Jalen has been a team guy, a leader.”
— Gary Washburn [43:56]

On Media Narratives:

“If you want to ask somebody who knows or go to a practice, go to a game, or just give your honest opinion of this is what I see and what I observe, or this is what I think, but to tell the world that this is what’s going on, or everybody’s got an insider, like, no.”
— Gary Washburn [53:30]

Timestamps for Important Segments

[04:45] — Robert Parish on Celtics culture
[09:52] — Underrated bench development (Gonzalez, Scheierman, Queta, Garza)
[18:24] — Roster sustainability and cap breakdown
[26:02] — Celtic's unique approach to player development
[39:06] — The Brown–Tatum dynamic post-injury
[45:23] — Media criticism of the Jays’ relationship
[63:16] — The 65-game rule and All-NBA voting
[71:17] — March Madness, NIL, and the demise of Cinderella

Conclusion / Takeaways

This episode of Celtics Beat provides a nuanced, insider’s look at the Celtics both on and off the court. Through candid analysis and storytelling, Gary Washburn emphasizes the power of organizational patience and player development, defends Jaylen Brown’s authenticity and leadership, and offers much-needed context on the media’s role in shaping NBA narratives. The conversation is a must-listen for Celtics fans looking to understand the delicate balance required to build a contender around two stars, the formula for NBA development in the new CBA and cap landscape, and the real, sometimes-overlooked meaning of “team” success.

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Transcript

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B (4:45)

Well, I think he really is a big Joe Missoula fan and that, that's cool to see. You know, he's a guy who hasn't come around all that much in terms of, like, reunions and. And all the gatherings that they have over the years. You know, I've been here 16 years. I haven't. I've talked to him on the phone. I've definitely have built a relationship, but I haven't really seen him much in the Garden, so it was good to see him kind of come back. And, you know, he's telling the story in his book, but he definitely still follows the game closely. He has an admiration for how they play, especially on defense. He's always a defensive guy, as you guys know from his days. And I think he really, really likes kind of the culture that's being built, obviously, the Joe Missoula culture. Play hard, regardless of if you're playing 30 minutes or 30 seconds, anytime you could be ready, you need to be ready to play. So always prepare yourself for, you know, maximum usage, even though it might be minimum usage. So I think he really admires the culture. I think he likes the coaching, and I think he has admiration for, obviously for Tatum and Brown, but also the other guys. And he. He just said that the one thing that Missoula does is he instills confidence in all the guys one through 13, not just one through five, which will put them in good positions to succeed when they do get their opportunity. So that's why we've seen top performances, good defensive performances, rebounds, key plays from guys like Hugo Gonzalez and Baylor Shireman at times, Jordan Walsh, you know, Luca Garza obviously has reemerged as a. As the backup center to the point where, you know you're gonna have to continue to play him, because I just think he's so. Been so productive. So if you look at this team, it's kind of the definition of a team. You know, obviously, you've got the head of the snake right now and Jaylen Brown, MVP candidate, all NBA first team candidate. And you've got Tatum kind of trying to get his legs under him and get back into form, but you've also got a lot of guys who just contribute and who just do their part, and then they take their lunch pail and they just go home and they do it again the next day. And with no prima donnas on the roster and a very good locker room, a lot of guys that like each other, that's the necessary chemistry for the championship. And I think Parish noticed that.

B (9:52)

Yeah, Evan, I think that anyone would have been surprised at the performances and how multiple guys have stepped up because we obviously going into the season, you just didn't know how this team was going to shake out. Obviously everybody talks about the gap year or the, or the retooling year where you're just gonna let a bunch of guys play a bunch of minutes, get them experience and then Jason comes back and then you make the big run for 27. You figure out what to do in free agency. You figure out if you need to get rid of somebody, you need to bring new guys in. You try to get a decent, maybe a mid first round draft pick and a good draft and then you just keep it moving. But what has happened is all the guys who have put in all that work in practice and you know, garbage time minutes have all responded and stepped up and they found roles. And I just think a guy like Hugo Gonzalez, no one knew what to expect from Hugo. Very few of us had ever seen him play for Real Madrid. He barely played for Real Madrid. So you're thinking this is a draft and stash. This is a guy who's probably going to spend two years back in, in Spain and maybe when he's 20 or 21 and more mature they'll bring him in. But he ends up basically etching a role as kind of the energy guy and a guy who's starting to hit the corner three. Right. I think we thought that he might be spending most of his season in Maine. He's never spent a day in Maine. I think he might have been in a main practice with Tatum that one time he practiced with, with Maine during his comeback. But he hasn't gone to Portland at all. He's only gone to Portland, Oregon. So that's, that's been a revelation. You're looking at Baylor, Shireman, he was considered kind of a utility guy, a shooter. He has turned into a really, really plus rebounder for his size. Hustle guy, good defender. So Joe can trust Ugo on guys, he can trust Baylor on guys. That's huge, right? Kate has turned into a mid level starting center. You wouldn't put him in a top 10 starting centers, but you wouldn't put him 25 either. You put him in the, you know, 18, 19, 17. That's what you needed from him. You didn't need him to be A top five center. You needed him to be a decent center who doesn't get dominated every night. And at the beginning of the season he was losing some of those battles. Getting out foxed by Andre Drummond or getting out muscled by Jaylen Duran. You know, he was losing some of those battles and now he's, it's more even and sometimes he's getting his licks in, you know, like 27 and 17 game. I mean he, you know, there's times that he, he has the lower numbers, but there's also times he shows up big. Just like against the Grizzlies, they needed that rebounding. So their bench and you know, and I know Kate is not the bench, he's a starter, but just kind of like those complimentary guys have just come up and just delivered. I mean you, you know, even Anthony Simons had a really good stretch here. You know, I, I, I think if you ask Celtic fans, would you rather have him in the lineup and let Bouchevich stay in Chicago, they probably say, yeah, let's bring that guy back because he can give you some scoring off the bench. We'll see how the Vusovich thing, that's still to be determined how that's going to work out. But Garza, Garza is another guy, obviously a great college player. One of those kind of had the Caitlin Clark kind of career in at Iowa where he was all American and number retired and he'll never have to buy another drink in Iowa City to kind of an NBA journeyman where, well, you're slow and you're undersized and so he turns that, he gets his body together and he turns into this rebounding maven and it's like, you know, that's the thing about the NBA. If you do one thing really well, you have major value. And if you offensive rebound well, if you get your team x possessions, you're going to be a valuable player. A player that people do not want off the floor. So with Luca Garza, he has emerged and then Jordan Walsh has had his moments. I know now he's kind of maybe out of the rotation a little bit, but I mean he's, he's played decently, right after kind of two years of kind of, you know, well, is this guy gonna be, is this kind of gonna be anything? Is he just, you know, he's a second round pick. Is it, is he a kid that just came out of college a little too early and probably, you know, is, is mainly a guy who's gonna make his money overseas? Is he just Is he just going to be a bench player? You know, even they got. And then he has good stuff out of guys like, you know, Josh Minot. And I mean, I still don't like the fact that they just gave that guy to Brooklyn. I thought he could have. I thought. I thought he could have still stayed on the roster and then. But he's not there. And I think one of the reasons he's not there is development of Ron Harper Jr. And this is a guy who came into camp last year. He's a little overweight, I thought because of his shoulder, not talking, ripping him or anything like that. He just wasn't in that premium basketball condition. He was still coming off the injuries. He was still trying to get himself right this summer league and in this season, he comes in in premium shape. He's got. He's completely removed from that shoulder injury and he has turned into an NBA player. Right? This is a guy who had a really good career at Rucker. I mean, he's a good player. Before anybody knew about his younger brother, he was a quality college player. And he has turned himself into a guy who you can throw in there at any time. He can guard, he can shoot. And. And that's been a revelation. So you're talking about, like, there's nobody on that roster that you could say to yourself, well, man, he's not had a very good year. Like, I mean, talking even on the bench, because you could look at other. Some guys have been up and down. You know, the Housers have been up and down. Derrick White's had his moments, and Derrick White's kind of at times had his struggles. But you don't look at. No one on that roster's had a disappointing year, right? No one on that roster. And the guys that were kind of there, the Xavier Tillmans, the Minots, they got rid of. So everybody on that team has a. Has a use. You know, it might not be every night, but Joe can go to Jordan Walsh for 20 minutes and he can produce and do the little things. The same with Shireman, the same with Luca Garza, and that's what. And they've like, you know, Vage has been out two weeks now, and I don't. Is anybody. He's not really been missed, you know. Now when he comes back, we will see how that dynamic works and all that. But I don't see people saying, man, they really need Voice. Like, do they need voice to be a championship team that. Could they use them? Oh, I think they could use them. Yes. Do I think he's absolute necessity. I don't know.

B (19:04)

Yeah, I mean, I think it's interesting how it's all going to go down in the offseason because now, you know, you can essentially run it back and then try to maybe tweak something here and there. You're going to have a first round pick come in, you know, who is that going to be? And you know, are you going to do anything in free agency? Do you need some more shooting? Do you need another, you know, wing? Or do you rely on a guy who's not, you know, who, who has played well this year? Expanded roles for Shireman, expanded roles for Jordan Walsh at an interesting position where they don't need major, major upgrades. And everyone's contracts kicking in. Obviously Derek's extension, sorry, Jason's extension's kicking in now. Derek is still back. Jalen's money is still going to be there, as you mentioned. So they got three guys making over $30 million a year, but the rest of the guys are cheap. And that's what you want. I think that, that Peyton Pritchard contract going to turn into a major bargain. And obviously when he signed for 7 and 21 more than a year ago, it looked like, well, that's kind of a lot, but now it's a complete bargain. So I think they're very, they're obviously they're managed very well. And you know, in this today's NBA, as you guys know, like, not everybody can make 30 million a year. You're gonna have to score on some of your draft picks or guys you sign the free. The cheap guys are free. You, you've got to score on those guys. Like you're not going to be able to make pay everybody $35 million a year. And if you look at Oklahoma City, they got the guys like A.J. mitchell, they got the other Arkansas, Jalen Williams, they've got, you know, Hardenstein makes 29 million. He. But he's barely playing because he's been hurt. And you know, Holmgren's extensions coming up and obviously SGA and Jalen Williams. But a lot of those guys, AJ Mitchells, they don't make a lot of. And that's how you have to flourish in today's league. You have to score with some of these young guys. You can't pay everybody with the Second apron all this damn money and expect to flourish because it's eventually it's going to catch up with you like it did. Sort of the Celtics, where you got to clear the decks with Porzingis and Holiday and let Horford and Cornette walk. But when you realign and you regroup and you bring in guys who are healthy, productive, and hungry and that's what the Celtics have done, then it works out well. So this offseason will be very interesting to see what they do if they feel like, you know, does another major player fall into their lap. But they've got to trade somebody who knows how that goes, who becomes available by with other teams, what the draft looks like. The Celtics, you know, and I'm not, you know, do they. Do they sell all out for AJ To Banjo? Like, I'm not saying they would, but, like, you know, are there possibilities like that where there's somebody that they absolutely love in the draft who's a top 15 pick, but they have 28. Do they trade up? You know, like, there's a lot of things that be. That could go on that could help the future of the team that we don't even know about.

B (22:49)

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B (26:02)

Yeah, I think it's their system and I think they learned from a couple of experiences. Like Sam Houser walked because Max Trce crawled. And what I mean by that is they gave up on Max Dr. And he ended up becoming a real key contributor for the Heat. Now he's been often injured and that type of thing in Cleveland now, you know, he got his money in Cleveland and has he. Has it paid off? Not really. But in Miami he turned into a really quality three point shooter and the Celtics said, damn, we kind of let him walk. I think would they trade him to the Bulls or whatever? And you know, they kept Javante and that wasn't a bad move. Javante's made a, you know, now as a, as a key contributor for the, for the Pistons. But I think they felt like, okay, we've got to develop better. And the Kada thing is a great example how. The Houser thing is a great example. Okay, this guy is a G league player right now, but in two years. And we want this guy to be a NBA player. So this is what we need to do. Send them, send them to Maine. You know, just work, work on some of his weaknesses. It's gonna be, it's gonna take time and that's what you have to do. That's what they did with Jordan Walsh. I mean, and Jordan is still very much a work in progress, but I do think he has taken leaps and bounds from his rookie season. I mean, we, we live in an, in an, in a college world where, okay, they're the one and dones, they're the Banzas and the Petersons and the Stefan Castles, the guys who are. Can't miss their NBA ready. Then we're getting a group of one and dones that are not ready. Like, stay your ass in school. Just take the nil money. They're coming out. And then you've got like the Cadas and the Housers, the guys, or even the Garzas, guys who are veteran college players who have a skill but they still need tutelage even though they're 23 and 24. And you got to work with those guys too. It's just like I said with the second apron, you have to land on players like, you know, you, you have to, if you're the Lakers, you have to find the Austin Reeves. Like, you've got to Find guys who fit in your system that might be. Take a couple of years. And the fans have to be patient. Now there's really nobody. I mean, you could say Ron Harper's a guy that's kind of in that midst of that development, although you could see more positives coming from that. But to me, I think the Celtics have just shown patience. I think Brad has a culture that he likes and I think that they've learned from some of their past mistakes. You know, the James Youngs of the world and the RJ Hunters, like, you know, they missed on guys, you know, guys who weren't serious about the game, guys who were one dimensional. And now you take guys who can develop into something. It might take time. And that's the thing. There's so many teams now, if you look at the, the previous five or six drafts, that team, some of these guys, teams just give up on. Like, you're not, you know, you're not mean.

C (33:22)

Guess what? You'd be right. Again. This is getting to the most ridiculous point. And honestly, I had the early cash out option Conkman, and I didn't take it. I should have taken it because I would have. I would have. I would have acquired some more money, but I still got my 21 back and we're still playing with that 21 we missed on the jail and more than five and a half assists versus the Wizards. He got five, so we just missed that one. So we're gonna. We're gonna dive it back up here again. We're gonna start with Kobe White. Kobe white. More than 21 points, rebounds and assists versus the Grizzly. He's been playing really well. There's a guy that got away from Chicago, I guess. I don't know. Chicago tends to keep guys they shouldn't get rid of guys they. They should keep. Patrick Williams still there. Nikhil Alexander walker. More than 18 1/2 points versus the Warriors. He's had a great season, but on fire recently. And then. I can't look, I can't. Don Chich has been incredible recently. He had the 60 pointer against Miami. We're gonna go. Luca more than 33 and a half points versus the Magic. I know the Magic defensively a little bit tougher, but Luca's just been on an absolute heater and it's making a push for the mvp. So we're going to take Luca in that capacity again. You guys know I hit all three. I, I 3x my money, two out of three, get my money back, which is probably going to happen. I'll. I'll update everybody as we keep going here. And again, getting your money into your account couldn't be any easier. At a little 15 minutes. Just watch it roll in your account, whether it's your bank account, debit card, Venmo, whatever. It's easy. And again, in the rare opportunity and I had one last week off, I didn't take it. But sometimes you hit two out of three quick, you can. You can cash out and actually make some money, unlike me. So pay attention to that stuff. If you're watching and you get two out of three, two out of three, you know, parts of your line of pit you can cash out early coffin. And maybe, maybe this week is the week. I'd become smart about that. Maybe it is. Probably not, but maybe it is.

A (35:11)

So download the prize picks app today. Use the code CLNS you get fifty bucks instantly in lineups after playing your first five dollar lineup. That is promo code clns. You get fifty dollars in lineups after playing your first for just five bucks. Prize picks. It's good to be right. We're here with Gary Washburn and again, let's, let's bring it back a little bit, I guess, more to this year's Celtics and what this team is looking to achieve, which again, as we sit here in mid to late March, we're talking Banner 19. We're talking about the possibility of representing the Eastern Conference come the Postseason in the NBA Finals. 3 game homestand on the way. It begins as we sit here the tomorrow Sunday against the Timberwolves and then the Thunder and then the Hawks. So all teams that very well could be part of the postseason field. And then you have the Hornets, the Hawks, the Heat, all on the road, the Bucks as well. Even though Milwaukee has basically waved the white flag on its season, telling Giannis, hey, we don't want you to play anymore. It's a good time for just that. Periodic checkup on Jason Tatum, who now has played and started seven games since his return from injury, averaging just south of 20 points per game, eight and a half rebounds, three and a half assists, a steal, couple Turnovers as well. 30 minutes per game, just a little bit below that. The minutes restriction that everyone pretended wasn't there has climbed from a consistent 27 to 32 of late. He is shooting 39%, 30% from 3, about 88% from the free throw line. Just to give you some numbers around what he has done of late, generally speaking, yeah, there have been some moments that he's not fully Tatum, but overall I think he has exceeded most people's expectations. He's generally been consistent. There have absolutely been those Tatum of old flashes a hell of a lot sooner than I expected them to be here. The, the conversation though, Gary, that everybody wants to have is some people want to pit again, the Jays against one another and identify, hey, how can they play together? How does this work? Whose team is it? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I think a lot of that conversation is stupid. The, the element of the conversation that I, that I do consistently acknowledge, though, is that there is an L there. There is a part of this that, that does require a little bit of nuance and massaging and trying to figure out how everything works so that everything is comfortable. It's not can they coexist like people used to ask going into playoff run after playoff, one run until they finally got over the hump. But there is a, a basketball component to, you know, Jason is not 100 yet, probably not even quite close. And Jalen is obviously having a career year. And some of the comments in the media, I don't, I, I feel like Jalen at times. I'm curious how you feel could be saved from himself a little bit. Some of the comments come off a little like he's a martyr in this situation, has to again, change himself to make room for another guy. Why do I have to evolve to, you know, all of that as opposed to. Again, he could just say something like, hey, it's great to have Jason back. He's such an important piece for us. And, and this is really exciting. He takes it a step further and I think brings some of the criticism upon himself from again, people in the media, not fans necessarily. Fans are out there giving him MVP chance on a 741 float in Southie, you know, so I think the community relationship is improving. But I'm curious what you think of what you've heard from Jaylen as. As this couple week progression has continued.

B (39:31)

your local retailer or locate now@celsius.com Jalen was introduced last in this, in the, in his starting lineups all the first 62 games and now he's fourth again. And it's Jason, you know, things like that. I mean, they're just little things that he's gonna have to adjust to. And I'm not saying anything that he's like, doesn't like. I think their relationship is good. I think that they've always been good. They've always, they've been, they've pushed each other, they've been competitive. Of course they're too, you know, cut from the same cloth in terms of their, their desire to win and desire to be Great. But I do think Jalen wants Jason around, and I think he sees an opportunity. I saw two plays last night, and I asked Jason Jalen about this after the game against Memphis, where he knew Jace Jason was struggling. Jason misses our first eight shots. Jason just didn't have it. He missed a lot of threes, and he gave Jason a nice little pass at the rim. Easy layup. And Jason fumbled out of bounds. Same half, first half, Jalen dribbles, has an elbow, and his three was dropping last night. Has an elbow three, looks at Jason on his right, sees him wide open in front of the Celtics bench at the corner, hits him, hits this first shot of the game. Like, Jalen does not have to do that. Jalen could just. Just be like, okay, dude, you're not where you're at. I am where I'm at. I am the a guy on this team right now. I'm going to score all the points. I'm gonna take over. He's not doing that. And so I'm not sure how. What people expect Jalen to say, like, of course you would love, man. I just missed that guy so much, you know? But I do think Jalen enjoyed the freedom of just kind of. I mean, who wouldn't? He's worked hard, too, you know, but of course, I think he understands and knows we have to have Jason to win a championship, you know, but damn, we was. We were doing pretty well before when he was out, so let's give some respect to that. So I think it puts Jalen in a very interesting and difficult position, you know, because we want guys to be honest, and then we want them to say what we want them to say. Like, which one is it? You know, Jalen's been an open book to us. He. He keeps it real. He's been honest. He does not lie to us. And, oh, man, Jalen, you should have said this. But then we want these guys to be honest. We want the. We don't want these guys not to have any ego. We want these guys to be rah, rah, rah for the team. And it's. I don't care. What about my numbers? I don't care about my respect. It's just as long as we win. There's certain guys who are like that, and there are certain guys on the socks who want to hit a bunch of homers on the ruins who want to score a bunch of goals, and the Patriots who want to score touchdowns or get sacks. Like. And I'm not saying Jalen is, like, all about his Numbers. But I do think he wants to fulfill his personal potential, just as Jason does. You know, he wants his respect, that he feels like his. He has not gotten rightfully around the league. And I think he feels like he's soaking that in. When people say, man, that, damn, I didn't know Jason Jalen was capable of this. I think he likes that. So for me, I don't know what people really want him to say, and I don't think he said anything to where I'm like, you know, he's been honest. It's been an adjustment. You know, it's for the team. But I do think, visibly he's trying to help get Jason going. He doesn't want Jason to struggle. He doesn't want Jason to sit there in the corner and, like, be unsure of himself. What would benefit that. The team? What would benefit Jalen to do that? So he wants Jason to get going. I mean, and I've seen them, they passing each other the ball. They're giving each other the. The, like, got you. Like, I see it, and I don't know what other fans or, you know, people are looking at me, don't watch the whole Celtic game, but I just don't see a problem. I just don't see. I just think Jalen has been a team guy, a leader. Like he said, he's learned all. There's the new numerology, answers. He's learned all their numbers and. And. And. And he has been a complete leader. So I'm not sure what people expect out of Jalen. Like, I'm just, you know, like, could he save him from himself? Do I want him to be honest? Of course. I want every athlete I deal with to be honest. That's, you know, that's what we. That's what we're asking for, right? And then when they're honest, and then you get people and. And. And this is my problem. You get people who don't go to games, who've never talked, had a conversation with either. These guys giving their Jason Jalen, Dr. Joyce Brothers. It's probably for you guys, time. Damn synopsis of their damn relationship. And they've never even been to a Celtic game. They're just, like, harping on radio shows from what they see. And they. And then that becomes Boston media. And then I get. I get the fire from that because they look at me like, damn, what y' all talk? Why y' all ripping us? Like, it's not y'. All. It's some dude who doesn't do his homework, who's trying to make a name for himself, who's trying to go viral with his opinions. That's what we're doing here. So I think we had to be careful with this, Jake, because it's like they've never been to a game. They've never. They don't go to. They don't go to Media Day. You don't have a conversation with Jalen or Jason. They don't even get to know him. And it's okay for guys, everybody to have their own opinions, but when they're doing psycho dam analysis on the relationship between Jason and Jalen, like, and you've never had a conversation with one of them, that gets frustrating for the people who do have conversations with them and know their dynamic and have been around this for nine years and see their dynamic and how, like, you know, they dap each other. They call, you know, Jason calls them old man. Like. Like, people don't know that unless you're there. So I don't mind people having opinions, but it gets shaped as Adam and you know, this Boston media because one dude had a damn opinion because he's trying to go viral with the opinion. He's trying to make your Twitter page. He's trying to make the, you know, not the Twitter, the X page. That is the people you follow, but the ones that says for you.

B (53:30)

I hope, I mean, I don't know, Adam, I mean, you're the, you're obviously in that world where you're talking to people, but that's the problem. Everybody's going on podcasts and then they're saying, hey, what happened with this? What happened in this situation? He gives his side and then the person who he's talking about then gives their side. Now we got Kenyon Martin and Tim Thomas arguing over some club incident in 2004 in Dallas. Like, this is where we're have, this is where we've declined to, you know, and we got guys telling old stories. And if you deal, you guys have dealt with athletes. Like some of their memories are not accurate. Some guys, most, most professional athletes are completely oblivious and at. And clueless about the impact of their own careers. Some are very much downplay their career. Like they're very humble that, you know, you would Never know that they were eight time all star, hall of Famer. And then you got guys who literally played seven years in the league telling you how good they were and how they were cooking folks in practice and how it was this, that the reason why they didn't get the chance to be an all time great. And oh man, I was dominating like that practice and you know, like, really you were like, look at the numbers. And so now you have. Because the all time great, a lot of the all time greats aren't doing podcasts. It's the meat, it's the, the middle guys who are talking about their careers and talking themselves up because it's what they wanted to do. Or now that they're older and they're over the money and the women and the life and they, they would say, man, I should have dedicated myself more to the game. So, you know, I was still pretty good. But man, because they're now, now having like remorse about that they didn't take advantage of the window that they had. Right? And so to me, that's what's hurting sports journalism. That's what's hurting. It's just, it's just ridiculous. And I just think what's hurting our credibility as journalists, especially in Boston with this Jalen and Jason stuff is people who come in out of the blue with these opinions, who, trying to psychoanalyze relationships. If you want to ask somebody who knows or go to a practice, go to a game, or just give your honest opinion of this is what I see and what I observe, or this is what I think, but to tell the world that this is what's going on, or everybody's got an insider, like, no, you know, like, that's what, that's what makes this whole thing with Jason and Jaylen confusing. And I'm sure one day, like Shaq and Kobe did, they're going to get on a podcast or they're going to have a, a show from NBA TV or from Netflix or Amazon, and they're going to discuss everything that went on in their careers together, from the Gordon Hayward stuff to the Kyrie Menagerie to winning a championship to, you know, to the email year, you know, all that. And they're probably going to bring Marcus on and they're like, like, and they'll probably talk about all the good stuff that happened during their, however long they played together. But in honesty, from what I see, and I've been there since the beginning, they are good and they root for each other. And I said, but does Jalen Enjoy being the primary scorer? Like, does he enjoy shutting up critics that have been there as old. Of course he does. Of course. Does he enjoy seeing Jason try to come back? Like, did he want. Does he want Jason to come back? Yeah. Could he have done. Could he have worked? Could he, at one game wore some Tatums and then pointed to the shoe like Pippen did 30 years ago? Could he have done that? Yep. You know, and how. How. How that relationship turn out? How Pippen, Jordan relationship turned out great right now. Yeah, exactly. So is that what you want? You want to do some symbolic stuff? You know, wear some Tatums one game and then point, like, we. We need you back, brother. Like, give me a. Like, you know, does that mean Deuce

B (58:42)

We have not seen Dylan. And, you know, we know, you know, he's exists, obviously, and the mother. But Jason's private about his family, you know, without. In terms of his, you know, and like, honestly, his. His personal life and what. He does not interest me at all, like, in terms of. Unless he wants to talk about it. Sure. I think he comes from a great structure. You know, him and Jalen are different. You know, Jalen is traveling the world. Jason's a dad. That's what makes them different. Everybody look like, you know, McKellen, McHale and Bird did not party together and hang out together. Like. Like, we give this. We glorify all. The big three was inseparable. Like, there were issues with the big three. You know, the funny thing is, this is. This is hilarious. Okay, so the globe. So Cedric Maxwell has beef with the Globe. I mean, Cedric, Max has beef with everybody but. And including me. And. And he is my closest ex Celtic friend. Like, he is. He is a great guy. Amazing guy. I love, man, but he's like, you know what y' all used to do at the Globe during our time when the Celtics won and it was Bird. It was always Bird Mikhail and Bird Mikhail and Danny on page eight, C1. Hey, the good guys win. Bird does it again. A triple double. When we would lose, it would be me in chief and Dennis like, what the hell's wrong with the Celtics? The brothers messed up again. It had to be one of their faults. It couldn't be Larry fault, Kevin's fault. He goes. Every time we would lose, it'd be me in chief walking off the court with our heads down like the brothers failed us again, hysterical. And that's. And I read Parish's book and he said the same thing. And we got hassled in the paper when we lost. It was the brother's fault. Damn, if Dennis didn't make that, should have made that pass. Damn it, Chief. Should have got that rebound. Max, how about hitting a mid range jumper once in a while and then when we win, hey, Walton the good guy. Hey, you know, Jerry C. Stein, Scott Redmond. Way to go, buddy. You know, I mean, so that's. I. I wasn't there. Like, if Shawty C ever comes to a game, Maxwell says the same thing to him. Like, you killed us. Y' all killed us with your photos. Especially after losses, we would pick up the part because that's the. That was the medium. The main mode of communication was the newspaper back then. It wasn't, you know, it wasn't the Internet. And we would look at the front page, and if we lost, we knew who was getting on the COVID It was us. It was me, Chief, Quinn Butner or Sam Vincent or Dennis Johnson, dj, You know, David third kill. Hey, you up too. So everything. So we. We glorify those days, and they were glorious days. They won championships, but they still hold grudges on those days. And I don't. I wasn't there during those times. I did not work at the Globe.