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- [00:02]
A
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B
K Pop Demon Hunters,
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A
Haja Boy's Breakfast Meal and Hunt Trick's meal have just dropped at McDonald's. They're calling this a battle for the fans. What do you say to that Rumi?
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B
It's not a battle. So glad the Saja Boys could take breakfast and give our meal the rest of the day. It is an honor to share.
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A
No, it's our honor. It is our larger honor.
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B
No really stop. You can really feel the respect in this battle.
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A
Pick a meal to pick a side
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B
and participate in McDonald's while supplies last. Last night you spent two hours deciding what to wear to the party this morning.
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A
It'll take you two minutes to list
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B
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A
to pay for your next night out. Or at least the ride home.
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B
Your style can make you cash.
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A
Start selling on Depop where tast recognize
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B
his taste this Friday, April 10th and this is Celtics Beat on CLNS Media, the leading online provider of audio video coverage of the Boston Celtics. I'm Adam Kaufman. Episode 671 features spot tracks Keith Smith
- [01:43]
A
and I'm Evan Valenti. And today's show is powered by Prize Picks, Gold Belly and Rocket Money. Prize Picks is the official daily fantasy partner of CLNS Media. Download the app today, use the promo code CLNS and get $50 in lineups when you play. $5. Go to Goldbelly.com and get free shipping and 20 off with your first order with promo code CBP and sign up for Rocket Money today at Rocket Money.com CBP.
- [02:25]
B
Hey everyone happ as we sit here right now I know you may be listening just a little after the fact. That's okay. It's a big picture program. Celtics Meet here on clns. We always like to tell you rate reviews, subscribe wherever you get your audio Podcasts means a lot to us. We do appreciate it. Or if you want to look at us you can Check out the video on The CLNS Media YouTube page, specifically the all access page. You will find Celtics beat and loads of other great Celtics content. With the playoffs right around the corner and the regular season winding down. Adam Kaufman, Evan Valenti, we're always here for you. Today's special guest, Keith Smith, our friend from Spot Track, the front office show. He does so much in the space and a good friend of this program. Keith, how are you?
- [03:07]
C
I'm doing well. Thanks so much for having me.
- [03:09]
B
Of course. Well, this Boston team, as we know, wins in 11 of 13 prior to this most recent game against the Knicks, which was a loss, Boston was not favored to win. An MSG part of the reason, of course, Jaylen Brown did not play. You would think a strategy in that as we sit here. Again, it's big picture stuff. People may be listening to this after the fact. So this is not going to be, we're not going to preview the home game against New Orleans, for instance. But you know, one thing that I do expect to see is Jayson Tatum out on the back to back. Jaylen Brown back in there. Maybe Derrick White plays after he played on Thursday or maybe he doesn't. We'll find out, obviously. But what this most recent game against the Knicks did do was really two different lanes that we can go down. One, it kept the door ever so slightly ajar for New York to get to the number two seed in the Eastern Conference because there is two games separating these two teams. With the playoffs again rapidly approaching, I don't think Boston has anything to worry about and clearly the Celtics don't either. Otherwise, you know, I think you might have seen the roster management look a little different in that game. So that's one. The bigger thing, of course, was Jason Tatum making the return to the place where everything went haywire on him back in May, May 12, last time we saw him at Madison Square Garden, he's writhing around on the floor and wondering what his basketball future is and thinking all about his athletic immortality. And he returns, looks good. Celtics fall short, but again, he's dusted that off in the event or gotten the monkey off the back or, you know, face the demon or whatever you want to call it in the event that Boston does return to New York for a playoff matchup. So those are kind of the bigger things with this narrow loss for Boston, the game that was very winnable down the stretch until Josh hot. Well, you know what, that works. Actually, I was going to say Josh Hart got hot, but let's just call him Josh Hot. What did you take away Keith, from that Knicks game game and just sort of what was on the line and you know, what we really gleaned from it to begin with.
- [05:16]
C
I think these are two teams that feel very confident that they may meet in the second round. I think the Knicks, they don't, they don't run a lot of crazy stuff. They just execute at a high level. So there's not like for them, there's no hiding anything. They kind of are who they are. They play who they play. It is what it is. I think with the Celtics you saw Joe Missoula didn't even go to a ninth guy with Jalen Brown out. He just ran an eight man rotation for the game and said, I'm just going to give everybody else a few more minutes here and that's how I'm going to run it. We're going to do our thing. And I think it was a pretty basic game plan for the Celtics. I think it was somewhat of a let's not show them anything if we do play. They have not played the Knicks healthy yet this season. So let's just pull things in reserve and. And if it matters when we come to play him later, then, then so be it. That'll be what it is. So I think it was good that it was winnable without Jalen Brown. Like you have to feel really good about that. You were right there at the end of the game. Some. There are a couple things that, that are a little worrisome. Derrick White hasn't shot well all season long. Missed a couple big shots down the stretch in this one. That part was tough. It was really good to see Peyton Pritchard get going. He's had struggles against the Knicks in the past because they tend to put a lot more size on him. That can be something that gives him a little bit of a challenge. But he was able to kind of pick his way through until he got to McBride or Brunson on him. And then another really good thing was Carl Anthony Towns can't defend anybody on the Celtics and they're going to find him in a playoff series if it comes to pass over and over and over again. And they'll play him not off the floor from the sense of Mike Brown will go away from him, but they'll play him off the floor because of foul trouble. And then, then you go to Mitchell Robinson who you've seen. Joe Missoula has no problem as early as the first quarter starting the Hackaman stuff. So I think there's a lot of Good things you can take away from it. Even if it was, I know for some fans, kind of a frustrated loss.
- [07:25]
A
Looking at the game, there are things that I like, things I don't like, and I do want to get another opinion from you, but like just off the jump, Kaufman, the fact that they out rebounded the Knicks 42 to 30 I think is pretty, pretty sizable and pretty important. I think Boston specifically with the Knicks knows that. I mean specifically Mitchell Robinson just because he's just a complete beast on both ends of the floor on the glass. I think they made a really concentrated effort to rebound the basketball and trying to control the possession game and they've controlled it all year. But against a team that really can give them trouble on the glass, we've seen it a ton in the past, which we like. I loved watching Baylor Shireman just shine as as much as he possibly could. 6, 7 from 3, 20 points. He was unbelievable. But I do want to just because it seems to be the, the narrative as we sit here on Friday morning as we record. The narrative is, well, Boston didn't really show them anything. And Keith, you kind of mentioned that. What specifically? Besides like, okay, they're gonna get Carl Anthony Towns and pick and roll to death if they play in the playoffs. I looked at the end of the fourth quarter and said, well, hopefully Kaufman even texted this to you. Hopefully Boston has a different plan to guard the the Brunson Towns pick and roll at the end of the game. Different one what they did because just none of it worked. So what, what do you think that Boston is planning to do against Knicks that they didn't show them in this game other than oh, here's Jalen Brown by the way. You guys forget about this guy over here.
- [08:58]
C
Yeah, I think they could go to Tatum at the five more. We didn't see any of that in this game. And I think that is something that we've seen them in years past go to when they really feel like we, we, we can survive on the boards. Would Tatum at the 5, let's go to him there because it just makes him more switchable defensively. Yeah, I think the pick and roll coverages will be different against the Towns one is funny, I was less worried about that one than the felt like 10 straight rim runs Mitchell Robinson made with, you know, not nothing there. So that's going to be something they're going to have to figure out. They, like I said, didn't go any deeper into the bench. We didn't see Hugo, we didn't see Garza did you know those guys didn't get involved at all? So that could be a little bit of a different change up, especially if you just need to change the energy with it. And then I think offensively snippets of oh hey, Vuch got switched on to Brunson or onto McBride or Clarkson. Clarkson, you saw one time he couldn't commit the foul quick enough to get out of it. Right. To make sure that yo you didn't get posted up. I think that could be something you see a little bit more too is. Well, let's, let's go into those actions a little bit. And then the small, small wing wing pick and rolls. All their pick and rolls were standard kata Vch set the screen and go into it. I think you could see a lot more of the let's pick through the matchups the way we want them because the Knicks like to start with Brunson guarding Shireman or guarding Pritchard or guarding Hauser. Well, you can use those guys as screeners because those guys are also good shooters on the pick and pop too. So I think those are all things you'll see Boston mix in and go to a lot more.
- [10:44]
B
You know, building upon that, whether it's specific to a Knicks matchup or just another matchup, you know, within the Eastern Conference, I'll let you take it whichever direction you want to. But just again, thinking about this in a big picture standpoint, I think a lot of fans, I don't know how people in the organization feel, maybe you would have some intel into that, but a lot of fans have been underwhelmed by the Vuch experience so far. I mean, Lord knows when it comes to, you know, our, our in game Celtics chats that I'll have with ev other people. These, you know, it's, it's a recurring theme that Vuch has again not impressed during his Celtics tenure. This is not just post injury, this is since his arrival. There have been flashes, there have been moments. I know he hit some big shots late last night and what ultimately didn't make a difference, but he has not fit as well, especially given his history and potential and career stats and all of these things. Compared to Aluca Garza who, you know, I, I don't think, you know, if we're just sitting here comparing, you know, man to man, like who's the better player. I, I think most people would still agree that okay, Vuch is the better player. You know, like which one would, would fetch you more if you were trying to trade them. That's that's not what this is about. But in terms of maybe who fits a little more seamlessly with the Celtics, who fits a little bit better within the specific role that is being asked of them. I think largely that has been Garza since Vuch arrived anyway. And so is that a concern for you going into the playoffs again, particular matchups or is it, you know, just kind of something that's happened so far but you still got to play the superior guy if in fact that is Vuch.
- [12:25]
C
Yeah, there's a lot to unpack there. I think the first part is talking with folks with the team. They felt like Vuch was just starting to figure things out, then got hurt and now it's like let's restart the process a little bit there. It's what is killing me is people are screaming and yelling about Vuch looks lost on defense. They're playing them in drop coverage. Same thing they do with Garza where it's a lot of it does look bad at times because let's face it, they're both unathletic white guys.
- [12:54]
A
Neither of those guys between Garza and Vuch is going to make an all NBA defensive team. That's just not going to happen. Neither of those guys are. But I do think that Garza provides a different type of energy, as you said. And I think in certain cases that Joe's gonna have to call on that more than calling for Vuch because like some of the times and you see it when Jaylen Brown's on the game either there's, there's a little bit more walk up ability of this team and this team that doesn't like to get out and force the issue a little bit. Like Jalen is really good at pushing pace and it's most noticeable when he's on the floor without Tatum because he's the main fulcrum of the offense. And I think the, the offense is just a little beat faster, two beats faster. And that to me when you look at last year like that maybe is the difference between winning and losing against the Knicks is like taking those opportunities to push pace, push tempo and attack. When a team is trying to figure out their cross matches, I think that's the big difference. And I don't think Vuchovic in that way can complement this team like Garza can. Am I wrong on that?
- [14:09]
C
No, I think that's fair. I think with Jalen Brown and with Garza you play with a little bit more edge, right? There's just a little bit more we can win ugly. We can get inside. We're gonna hit you. We're gonna. You'll play more physical where when it's the lineup slid by Tatum and a lot of this last night and when you have Vuch out there it's a little more precision based and if things do get thrown off timing wise or they. You get into a little bit of a game that turns into kind of a rock fight, it does get a little more messy with those guys. So I, I totally get what you're saying and I think, I think the really good news is they have all these options.
- [14:48]
A
Right.
- [14:49]
C
And it's what. And I didn't. I get it. When fans come back with we gave up Simons for this guy and Simons was playing really well. Problem is Anthony Simons is hurt. We don't know that he would have. I think he could have played through this injury. I think the Bulls are clearly enough to spot where. No, let's not bother. We don't need you erupting for 40 points and we win a game by mistake. Like they didn't really care on that but I think with Simons it is you. Where was he going to fall right in the rotation because they've gotten a lot out of Charman. They've gotten a lot out of Jordan Walsh. Missoula is not going to play 11 guys. It's just not going to be a thing in the playoffs. So I'm not that, that part I'm a little less worried about. You know with the whole well you gave up Simons to. To pull this off like that part I, I don't worry about but I do get it with the comp to to Garza. But I think the good news is you have all these options now. They can play a lot of different ways and I think that's important for the Celtics to be able to have that versatility.
- [15:53]
B
Let's take quick break today. Today's show is powered by prize picks. The playoff push heating up in the pros of course right around the corner there is no better way to cash in. If you are right on the high flying hoops action then prize picks America's number one sports picks app. Every bucket, every dime, every win means that much more when you are playing on prize picks and with their brand new team picks markets you can now pick game winners, spreads and totals on top of those player picks that you already know. So cash in if you are right during all the clutch buckets, slam dunks and Cinderella's throughout the spring with team picks on prize picks f Kaufman, we
- [16:33]
A
have an opportunity here to divert slightly from basketball because it is master season, baby. We have finally made it. As maybe the resident golfer of this podcast, I am thrilled for this. And with that in mind, or flex play Friday is going to be a lot of a lot of golf today. We're going to start with Sam Burns, who had an excellent opening round at Augusta. We're gonna go Sam Burns more than three and a half birdies in round two. He had a great day. I think he shot what, minus five that round one. Spectacular stuff for Sam Burns. Akshay Patia, who I was turned on to by our very good friend Steve Bullpet. I'm a big fan. This guy is actually pretty nails and out of the lefties at the tournament. I think Akshay is one of the best. We're gonna go Akshay batia less than 72 and a half strokes. And then Patrick Reed, who people love or hate, mostly hate. But Patrick Reed had a great opening round as well. We're gonna go Patrick reed less than 72 strokes in round two. Now, if you go back Patrick Reed's last five rounds at Augusta, all under 72. So we like, we like that trend. We're gonna stick with that. With the American, Patrick Green. If hit all three, I 3x my money. If I hit two out of three, I get my money back with the flex plate Friday. And you guys know I, I've been over two lately, Kaufman. The last two ones I haven't hit. It's not been great, but we're gonna get right back on track with the Masters and we'll at least hopefully get two out of three. And as I'd say all the time, getting your money from price trips couldn't be any easier. You watch, roll your account as little as 15 minutes. Whether it's Venmo, your checking account, whatever works, they do it all. And somehow, if your lineup's going really well, you, you might have the ability to cash out early. I had it once. I even texted Kaufman whether I should do it and said, no, let it ride, guy. And guess what?
- [18:20]
B
We lost.
- [18:20]
A
That's okay. But sometimes you have better luck than me. And you can cash out early before the games are even over, buddy.
- [18:28]
B
So download the Prize Picks app today. Use code CLNs to get $50 in lineups after playing your first $5 lineup. That is promo code CLNs get 50 bucks in lineups after playing playing your first $5 lineup. Price Picks Predict is a registered FCM offering team picks and culture picks as event contracts. Trading involves significant risk not for all. The content provided is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute investment advice. A recommendation to trade any commodity interest or any offer to open an account Celtics Beat is not registered with the CFTC or nfa. The Price Picks Predict does not endorse or guarantee any statements made by third party promoters or influencers. Please consult with a qualified professional before making any trading decisions. Let's get back to the show okay, so narrow loss in New York against the Knicks again 112106 I don't think this is overly impactful guys. The Celtics have to believe with this two game differential they have on top of New York for the second seed that that is all but secure. Again, as we sit here on a Friday morning, if you're not listening until Saturday or Sunday or something like that on the podcast or watching on delay, you will find that this may have been settled already if Boston goes out and blows doors against a very weak Pelicans team at the Garden, as quite frankly Boston should. But what is noteworthy we mentioned earlier is Boston went into New York with Tatum for the first time since that mid May injury where the Achilles ruptured last year and he wondered if he was going to play all season. Well as it turns out in his 40 minutes, which again that's noteworthy in and of itself. Tatum played 40 minutes, the most on the Celtics roster by a couple on Derrick White and by far compared to anyone else. And ho hum led the team in points, in rebounds, in assists, turnovers as well. But we won't give him a hard time for that. I know the three point shot is still working to come around. He went 2 for 10 from there, but overall 7 of 22 shooting had the 24, 13 and 8 was really generally pretty excellent. I wouldn't Keith necessarily highlight this on its own and make a big thing out of it if not for the fact that Tatum made a big thing of it, he expressed his my word, not his anxieties and discomfort going back into that building where everything happened and the potential sort of PTSD that comes away from an experience like that, I would say he looked no worse for the wear. And I'm glad that if this was something he was concerned about, which clearly he was, that again he got it out of the way. Because I do think it's very realistic and I'm rooting for it for that matter that these teams face each other in the postseason and Tatum is going to be going back into that building conceivably with much bigger Things on the line than a regular season game in early to mid April.
- [21:32]
C
Yeah, now it's done, right? It's done, it's over with. And he doesn't have to have those thoughts in his mind. I think I know for at least me there was a loose ball scramble right about the same place where he went down with the torn Achilles in the second half. And it was like, yeah, imagine just for everybody was like, do you flashback to that moment? But now it's done and now, now it moves on. It was kind of, it's kind of like every time they threw an alley oop after Gordon Hayward broke his leg, I was like, is this going to be a thing? And if we remember back to those teams, those teams couldn't throw alley oops for crap. Like they were awful lob throwers and it was like, stop doing it, you're just going to get people hurt or you're going to throw it in the 10th row of the seeds. But yeah, so for Tatum it's over and done with. I think his quote after was I'm leaving on two feet this time, leaving the arena on two feet. So that's, you know, shows he's where his mindset is at. And I, I didn't appreciate the people who were like, oh, get over yourself. What a baby. Why are you making a big deal out of it? Like every injury is different for every player and this is the kind of injury that quite frankly ruins careers sometimes. Maybe we're finally have advanced enough medically that that's not going to be the case anymore. Certainly doesn't look to be the case with Tatum. But yeah, in the way he's playing, it looks like he's playing very free and easy and I like seeing him get on the floor for loose balls and you're not, do you want to see him get knocked down? But it is good to see him get hit and then just pop back to his feet and just keep playing. Those are all important things here for him. And last thing I'll say, well, two, two things. Sorry. His rebounding is so good and it's really opened up Demi Esqueda to do more as a rim protector because now Cater is not having to. All right, half challenge the shot, but I got to be back for the rebound because I'm by far the best rebounder in this group now he can kind of trust. All right, I got the other guy back there. He's going to grab double digit boards tonight and I can get out there and challenge the shot and then Tatum's passing. I don't, I don't know how sitting. Maybe he was just sitting and watching and seeing angles and all that stuff has put him in a place where that's changed his, his entire, you know, passing ability. But I mean, he is leveled up as a passer. Just some of the passes he makes now are passes he wouldn't even attempted prior to this season. And that's, that's really great because that helps open up the offense in a big, big way.
- [24:07]
A
Yeah, I want to go back to something Keith said and I'm going to call out a guy very specifically for this because I just think it's garbage that people want to give Tatum a hard time for making a big deal out of going back to msg. Like, I just think we want authenticity and vulnerability from these guys because we want to see their true characters and then when they do, we give them shit for it. And I just think that's crazy. I'm going to call it Steph Bondi specifically because I think this is an absolute garbage. Take quote. It's commendable that Jayson Tatum pushes return to return this season. You don't get that commitment to playing as often now in the NBA. However, miss me with the idea that returning to MSG is some traumatic experience. He tore a ligament to be a memorial on the court he wanted to go talk about. I actually tore my Achilles and my acl. I'm not that traumatized by the field where it happened. You can, you can miss me with all that stuff, man. Like first and foremost to compare yourself to an athlete doing the same thing is I think the craziest thing I've ever heard in my life. Your entire well being and like the fact that like your livelihood is not dependent on your athleticism. You write for a living. So first and foremost to compare those two things is crazy. To, to, to Keith Smith's point more about how that injury, you know, recently there's been a lot of proof in the pudding that they've sort of figured this out and guys starting to come back to kind of be their old selves again. But until very recently that was not the case. Like, okay, that's just, it's, it's one of these things that the history of this injury tells you that a lot of the time you don't come back as the same player. And if you're Jason Tatum, who I'm gonna tell you right now is considering himself to be one of the greatest Celtics of all time and I'm. And that doesn't it's not something you take lightly with a team that's won more titles than anybody else, and that's the storied franchise of the NBA. And you can put them with the Lakers. I'm totally fine with that.
- [25:55]
C
That.
- [25:56]
A
But he believes that he is going to be, when he's done, one of the greatest Celtics to ever pick up a basketball, which is insane. And I bet you for a brief moment in his life, he thought, I guess I'm not going to be that guy anymore. I guess I'm not going to be a top five player or the best player, league, etc. Etc. So, yeah, going back to the place where, you know, your.
- [26:16]
B
Your.
- [26:16]
A
Your entire career was thrown up in the air and you weren't quite sure what was going to happen. Yeah, you might have some trauma associated with that. So, like, all the people that want to come at Tatum for, you know, making a big deal out of this, I think are insane. I think they're insane. I think they have to be more in touch with the way that people kind of feel, especially if we're gonna, like, ask for authenticity. And for those of you. And again, maybe I'm. I'm on my soapbox too much and, oh, Evan, you're a homer or whatever. Like, no, man, I just, like, care about the fact that these guys. And we have the Tatum interview with Ramona Shelburne. We talked about stuff. These guys are being more vulnerable. And the biggest criticism the both of them, both of the Jays, has been, we don't know who they are. Well, now they're showing you who they are, and you don't like it. I think that's crazy. I think it's hypocritical. I think we all need to take a deep breath and just appreciate the fact that these guys play a ton and play their ass off whenever they do play. And with that, Kaufman, I'll throw it to you because I'm not quite sure if we need to respond to that. If we.
- [27:20]
B
I'm. I'm gonna. I'll play point guard here. I'm gonna. I'm gonna pivot your point over to Keith, but I'm gonna ask it in this way, and I'm gonna, you know, overstate what you're stating just a little bit. But what the hell? In. In the spirit of what we're doing, do you. Keith, you know, I. I think we have seen enough from Tatum at this point in the number of games that he has been back. This guy is going to be the Tatum of old. And and may even continue to ascend and be better. And any worries that many of us had about what is this guy going to look like after the injury should be gone. And I'm not, you know, whether that's this year within the playoffs or whether it's just going forward as a, as a young guy in his, you know, mid to late 20s. Like, I think we all believe that, you know, he is going to be just fine, arguably is already fine and is going to be the new poster child for the recovery from a recuper, you know, ruptured Achilles and all of that. So great. That's awesome. It's, again, to the original point, couldn't commend his. His just determination and, and, and will and effort and all of these things to get back in the way that he has more than I do. But between everything that has happened along the way. And I think this goes back to maybe some of the people that, you know, you read that one tweet, Ev. But I, I think this is sort of the overarching conversation around those sentiments between the documentary leading up to the return, between some of the comments, vulnerability or otherwise that have been made and, you know, this, that and the other. Do you believe any part of you, Keith, that some of this, especially given the nature of the injury, like it wasn't stabbed a billion times, like Paul Pierce, for instance, do you believe that Tatum milked any of this a little bit, whether because he wanted to or as a coping mechanism or it's just the way athletes are covered here today in 2026.
- [29:23]
C
I wouldn't use Milt, but I would say took advantage of. We are in a world where players have active players, podcast post game, like we do. Right. And they'll talk about like the game and what. I mean, Draymond Green was basically like, yeah, what the hell were the Kings doing, like, following, you know, in a, in a game with the league. Right. Like now, I think what players are doing is they're trying to take control of these stories. And I think for Jayson Tatum, it was, hey, I have an opportunity here to control the story of my rehab, in my comeback. So I'm gonna do it through this series of YouTube videos, through filming that, you know, documentary series, whatever we want to call it with. With. Was that NBC. I think he did that leading up to the return. So, like, we're gonna put. But I can control that rather than. Yo, here's Joe Schmo. Yeah, Jason Tatum was in the gym yesterday and I got one glimpse at him and here's what it looks like. Right. Which we did anyway. But it was like, here's a chance to kind of control this. And I think the team was good about saying, hey, let's not do all this cloak and dagger stuff. Like, we're going to kind of put it out there and share and, you know, let people know kind of where things are going, because it's just a different form of it. But I would say it's just the world where it is now. I don't think he milked any of it because I don't think it was, let's wait one more day. Let's wait, you know, another week. Like, I think it was, hey, if I can control the story out there and have this be part of it. I think like you said there were or have said, there was probably a point where he was like, I don't even know what my career is going to be anymore. So let me now, this is a big part of my career. This is going to be a part of my story the rest of the way. Let me control the way that story is written. And I think in that, you know, it's, it's different certainly than the sports coverage any of us grew up with, but it's just the way it is now. And I don't have a huge problem with it.
- [31:29]
B
Yeah, I think that I largely echo everything that you said. I, I won't go to the leap that some other people have gone to or that I, you know, presented there with the question, you know, unless we, like, if we're talking about this still at like media day next year after potentially a multiple month playoff run and multiple months of playing since return, like if, if Tatum plays, I'm making up a number here, you know, 30ish games this year between regular season and playoffs and looks great and continues to get better along the way. And then we're still talking about it like, you know, media day and in and around training camp and everything like that next year, then. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, there might, there might be a question or two.
- [32:18]
C
Sure.
- [32:19]
B
You know, how you feeling after the off season?
- [32:20]
C
But yeah, or you weren't here a year ago at this day. What does it feel like? Right, but from the beginning.
- [32:27]
B
Yeah, right. But beyond that, if we're having conversations about this, then yeah, I, I will say we are more than taking advantage of. I, I think we will be at that point, you know, milking something that, you know, it's like, was serious.
- [32:39]
C
Okay.
- [32:40]
B
I think we're past it now. All right, let's take another break. Tell you. Today's show is powered by Gold Belly. Guys, I got to tell you about the most incredible, unforgettable gift that you can get mom for Mother's Day. Have you heard of Gold Belly? It is an amazing site. Celebrates the best of America by shipping our country's most iconic foods from legendary restaurants straight to your door. And they will ship it anywhere across the country for free for Mother's Day. Just in time, Gold Belly will ship gift worthy cakes from Ina Garten from Martha Stewart, Magnolia Bakery's famous banana pudding. New York bagel brunch directly from the city. Even have authentic Chicago deep dish pizza.
- [33:23]
A
Buddy, I don't know if you can see my smile or now, but this is probably the happiest I'm ever going to be during one of these reads. I got to tell you, I've heard of Gold Belly. I've had people use it before. Friends of mine talk about it. I've never experienced it for myself and boy, did I get an experience of lifetime. Gold Belly hooked me up with some macaroons straight from Paris. We got some New York bagels that I'm still eating. There's so many in that package. I was a little. I didn't. I mean, like, look, they're gonna ship me stuff from Paris and it's gonna be amazing. How is this even possible? I'm here to tell everybody it was one of the most wonderful experiences of my life.
- [34:03]
C
Cop.
- [34:03]
A
And I tagged you on the videos that I did on Instagram. I personally order the macaroons. My, my girlfriend ordered the New York bagels because she's a sucker for a good bagel. And not gonna lie, so am I. But let me tell you something. Everything was as good, if not better than advertised. I've never had a macaroon so good in my life. And I want. What's funny is like, I got. I got like a whole. I got like 30 of them. There was so many in this package, it was insane. And I remember telling people, because I was giving them out as treats, I said, okay, whatever. You do understand that what you're about to eat is going to have the most intense flavor of this that you could possibly imagine. And you, like, when you took a bite of it, you watch people's eyes light up. It's like, it's like that moment of like, holy cow, this is amazing. They do a whole bunch of stuff from all over the world. You can get it. And the best part is for me, like, the reviews are like, really kind of helpful in terms of like, oh, this was so great or this was excellent or this was blah blah, blah. It's one of the best experiences I've ever had. Gold Belly hooked up a foodie. And let me tell you folks, I would if you're looking for a really unique, inspiring, thoughtful gift for Mother's Day for your mother, there is no better way to surprise her with something extra special from us and from Gold Belly.
- [35:27]
B
So if you're looking to make Mother's Day perfect or you want to impress your friends and family with an epic meal, next time you host, go to goldbelly.com get free shipping and 20% off your first order with promo code CBP Self Speed Podcast. What that probably stands for there goldbelly.com CBP is your promo code. Free shipping, 20% off your first order. Get back to the show, fellas. We've been talking about Jason Tatum. We've been talking about this Celtics team. Obviously the Vuch Garza thing ev mentioned a while ago, way back earlier, Keith, toward the beginning of the show, someone that you know, we have these themes from show to show. Let's talk about this guy. Let's talk about this guy. We have definitely not. Not that we're going to do this with so little time left in the show, make this show all about him. We're past that point, but we got to give him a shine. We got to give him a moment. Baylor Scheimer, 30 minutes, 20 points, 7 of 8 shooting, 6 of 7 from 3. This is a guy that going into the year, I would say most people at the very least outside the building wondered can he play? I mean is he a piece, is he a guy that should even be on this team this year, in this year of uncertainty? Let alone is he a piece going forward in years to come? Can he be a part of the next incarnation of Celtics champions? Well, in 75 games, 19 of those started, by the way, 18 minute average, five points per, almost four rebounds, assist and a half, two and a half is the assist to turnover ratio, which is solid. The shooting percentages for BAYLOR, SHIREMAN About 46% overall, 40% three point shooter and just about 87% from the free throw line. Obviously, and you know this as well as anyone being from spot track, he's cheap, very affordable, important to have a guy like this and the Celtics have several guys like this on this roster. If you intend to be top heavy in terms of your salary structure with guys like Tatum, Brown, White, all making considerable money, you need to have guys that are only making 2, 3, 4, 5 million to round out your roster. Shireman certainly is long past proven okay, he can play, he belongs, he's a piece. They should be retaining him. Not he's not untouchable. I'm not going that far. But you shouldn't be necessarily looking to deal him given what he brings you for that salary slot. How have you been impressed assuming you have been by Baylor Sherman along the way, especially in the last month or two.
- [38:19]
C
Blown away. I I'm going to go back to almost a year ago, right. He got a little bit of run at the end of his rookie season when Boston kind of had things wrapped up and there were a couple moments where it's like all right, he's kind of showing a little bit there and you know he's, he's done, done some things and interesting player maybe last summer that summer league and Matt sports business classroom where the people are, they're into the stuff I'm into right into the salary cap and into the roster stuff. And a lot of the conversations were they even gonna keep this guy? Because when you were as expensive as the Celtics were, you can't even if he's cheap, you can't be like dead money. Like you need to contribute. The thought process was are they even going to keep this guy around now go forward? Basically a year later it's like this is great. Another end of the salary cheat contributor nightly basis plays well. I think the thing that's most impressed me is his defensive ability. Especially his on ball defense against yeah, he's going to struggle with the very quickest guys in the league. He's not you know like speedy out there but against the bigger wings they'll, they'll throw them on those guys and tell them hey go do your thing. And he stays right with them. He works really hard offensively. We knew he was going to be a great ball mover, you know to not to belabor a point but did you guys know he was a high school quarterback and set all kinds of records?
- [39:49]
B
Right.
- [39:49]
C
Like you know that just. But it does show like guy knows how to move the ball, he knows how to pass in the space, all that stuff and then the shooting. What's, what's been great is this year has gone along was okay. Maybe we have a guy who can play some defense and hit some spot up shots. All right. He's going to be a good mob mover. Oh he's doing a little bit off the dribble. Oh now he's driving closeouts and creating shots for himself or others. It's just rounding out really, really nicely. And this is a string of late first round picks that the Celtics keep hitting on. And don't get me wrong, the the secret, not even the secret. The reason the team is so good is Tatum and Brown are awesome. But the rest of it is nailing these late round picks that can contribute and play is so huge. When you have two guys who make $100 million combined, you have to get that production on the roster somewhere else on the cheaper contract, on the team, controlled contracts. And that's one of the things Charman has done majorly.
- [40:51]
A
But two favorite things about Shireman, especially after that Knicks game, one thing is going to be the rebounding. Like he's just a really good rebounder for a guy that's a wing player. And you know, frequently you'll see me on price books coffin if there's a barrel. Baylor Shireman rebounding part of the lineup. I will look at that if there's anything. If it's like four, four and a half, I'm smashing the more than he has a really good knack of finding pockets to grab rebounds and he really goes after it. And to me it's part again, the secret sauce that makes Boston so good is they have their wing guys that crash really well. Whether it's going to be a Walsh Ugo or a Shireman. Those guys all do that really well and they all kind of do it a little better than Sam Houser. I'm not trying to pick on Sam Houser. It's just not really that big a part of his game. Or the other three guys I think do a much better job of that. My favorite thing lately from Shireman you saw, I think it was in the second half, I think it was the fourth quarter where I've been talking about Boston spacing for a couple of shows now and it is really a remarkable thing to watch. It is a big part of their success because they have a ton of guys that are very comfortable from 28 to 30ft and you have to guard them out there because they will, they'll pull from there. They have no problem pulling from 28 to 30ft in Charman yesterday and Ian Eagle called it out immediately, which I thought was amazing. Where he's in the left corner up fake gets gotta go buy him and then instead of attacking the rim he goes backwards towards the right wing which or left wing which must be his favorite spot on the floor and literally just like sprints to that spot, sets his feet really Quick gets square and hits one in somebody's face and it's like. And again, he was clearly feeling it. Like I think he might have been his, either his fifth or sixth three pointer at that point. But like the fact that he's got that in his game where he can drive a closeout, be very comfortable with the ball in his hands, driving a closeout can either pull up, he has a little bit of a floater game, a little bit in between her game. And he's also a very good passer. As we talked about. Not only does it have that in his game, but now he goes this other direction where he's sprinting backwards. It gives him a little bit of unpredictability of what he's going to do next. And it, and it just kind of makes him a much more complete offensive threat in a way that like a Sam Houser sometimes isn't. And when they, when you have. And like it's not surprising to me that Shireman got 30 minutes against the Knicks. He's gonna get a ton of minutes in the playoffs because of the, his ability to do stuff like that. And we talked about it before, but for Brad and, and the rest of the front office to nail a pick like this and have this guy contribute like Kaufman. How many times did so many people complain about not getting Dalton Connect? This guy's way better than Dalton Connect could ever be. And they were similar players come out of college. Dalton connect. You can't find them in a phone book. Meanwhile, B. Sharman's going to play crunch time minutes for a team that has NBA Finals aspirations. It's amazing to me, if I have
- [43:51]
C
to, I want to gush on that same play for, for, for a minute because he kind of threw the ball sideways going to his right and he's left handed. And what it reminded me of. Anybody who is blessed to have a driveway big enough to do this or if you were in a gym by yourself where you kind of threw the ball out and you put English on it so it would bounce back to you and like you caught it a little bit off the run and just let it fly like did he just. You're absolutely right. He does these kind of unpredictable things and the guys who kind of move a little funky out there and they do some stuff and he's got that scale hammers on this, the D cell step, he has that down, which is really great. You see his change of pace stuff, it's, it's really good. And then it, then it just looks funny because he Looks like the guy who would have showed up after unloading the bale of hay still has his work boots on and is like, hey, can we get a run in real quick? You know, on a court that's all dirt, you know, for the ground? Like, it's just what he looks like, you know, out there, and you can tell he's having fun, and the team gets all fired up, you know, with him out there. I mean, he is just somebody that, you know, it's. It's. Again, it. There could be a sideshow act to this, which was what Pritchard felt like at times. But all these guys have taken the sideshow act and made it, hey, no, this is going to be what I am, and this is going to be really helpful and good, and that's. That is so huge for this team.
- [45:18]
B
One final break to tell you. Today's show is powered by Rocket Money. Look, life's getting more expensive by the day, believe me. And unfortunately, there is nothing that any of us can do about it. I know spreadsheets can be helpful, but it can also be quite overwhelming. That's why we want to talk to you about Rocket Money.
- [45:36]
A
Yeah, Kaufman, I don't know about you, but I know a few people, maybe me included, that use doordash religiously. Okay. And before I downloaded Rocket Money, I didn't even realize how bad my spending really got. And don't be wrong. I love cooking like I do, but, like, sometimes your day doesn't allow you to do the things I don't like to do. And the convenience of having doordash has been kind of a big thing for me. I don't even go outside. There's a pierce at my doorstep. It's great. But thanks to Rocket Money, I saw exactly how much money this habit and others were costing me. And as now as we're getting through tax season, because this is this time of year, you know, you're trying to, like, balance everything out, get an idea of what's happening. I feel so much more confident about how I'm spending my money going forward, and I have no one else to thank than Rocket Money.
- [46:26]
B
Buddy, Rocket Money helps you with so many things. Are you nervous like ev here about spending habits that want. You want to get under control? I mean, if you want to save up for a big purchase, let's say maybe it's a house, a car, it could be anything. It's a vacation. You want something to help you stay on track. Rocket Money can help you with all of that. Plus, it keeps track of all of your subscription services and has the ability to cancel unwanted ones with just a few taps on your phone. The app has helped save people overnight over $880 million. Think about that. The app has helped save people over $880 million. Rocket Money is a personal finance app. It helps find and cancel unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, helps you lower your bills so you can grow your savings. Let Rocket Money help you reach your financial goals faster. Join at RocketMoney.com/CBP that is RocketMoney.com CBP RocketMoney.com CBP all right, Keith, I, I've been waiting on this one to the finer. Just honestly, like, this is, this is the type of thing, you know, we often talk about attention spans and okay, I mean, if you have a podcast that's, you know, an hour, hour 15, or people actually staying all the way till the end, all that, I mean, you've got the front office show. You must wonder that from time to time as well. If we really get going on something or people, you're all the way to the end of it. I wanted to save something that honestly, I don't care if people are still here for, because I think it is such a stupid, worthless talking point to begin with. But people are having the conversation and, and I feel obligated, I feel compelled. And that is Giannis's future in Milwaukee as it relates to the Boston Celtics. There are a lot of people that would like to connect Giannis to Boston. And I will just preface by saying Brad or Zarin or whoever it is, like, yeah, somebody's probably going to make a phone call, inquire. I think you'd be crazy if you are any team in the NBA to not at least inquire about an asking price for Giannis. Tentacompo. You gotta, you gotta find out. I mean, there are theoretically ways that if you're Boston, you could make that happen that doesn't involve either of the Jays. I think that's the common sense is like, well, if you're getting Giannis, you're trading a J. And if you're trading a J, sorry, it's Jalen Brown. I, I, it just is, it's, that's the way, it's the way it's been, it's the way it's going to be. But there are ways to do it without that. You could trade Derrick White and a package of picks and a Hauser or, you know, you name it. Like, you can make the money work with Derrick White as your centerpiece as opposed to a Jalen Brown. But what it comes back to, really, is this for me, Keith, I don't want any part of it. I don't. I don't need to do that. I don't think Brad wants to do that. I don't think Zarin wants to do that. I don't think Joe wants to do that. I mean, by all means, push back. Correct me if I'm wrong. I think the. The Celtics are. Are pretty good with where they are at in terms of building toward Banner 19 without that involving Giannis and Tentokounmpo on their roster. Now, whenever he is dealt, and he will be dealt this summer, he's not going back to Milwaukee. I would be shocked. Whether it's to New York or Miami or Golden State or San Antonio or wherever it is he goes. Do I think it's a one, you know, one team, one team? I think a little 2T. I don't. I. I think there will be a third team getting involved there, whether it's adding players, adding picks, adding salary, filler, whatever it is. And Boss, you know, Brad could pull the Danny and. And get involved and help facilitate a trade. That wouldn't shock me by any stretch of the imagination. But Giannis winding up in Boston, I would be floored. I can't think of something I have been more wrong about than that. If it ends up happening. How do you feel about the fact that. That people are even talking about the plausibility of it?
- [50:37]
C
Yeah, it's. It's interesting, right? The interesting part for me, someone asked me, answered the question on Twitter, which probably I just should never do. But when I answered the question, people were like, I would. They would never do this for me, where it becomes interesting, because I am who I am and I own it. I'm a transaction nerd. So I instantly go to, how do you make it even work? How do you make it work? And that is fascinating, right? Because it's all right, well, the easy way is Tatum or Brown. Then the much more complicated way is there's other paths to it. What would you do? Where is it? Ultimately, it would come down to what do the Bucs want to be post Giannis? Do they want to tear it all the way down and say, let's start rebuilding? We're caught under this dead money on the books for Damian Lillard anyway. Let's try to salvage what we can out of the other veterans and we'll start all over. Or is it, hey, we still want to be competitive and we want to try to, you Know, be a playoff team, post Giannis as quick as we can. That changes what the return would be. Now, here's where the personal stuff comes in. I would not do this. I don't think the Celtics will do this. I think, like the other 29 teams in the league, they will make a phone call just to see, hey, what, you know, what are you thinking? And if it is, well, geez, you know, we're thinking package built around former Wisconsinite Sam Houser and other matching salaries and draft picks. Then the Celtics might be like, okay, let's have a different kind of conversation than what we thought we might be going to have. If it's, yeah, it's got to be Brown or it's got to be Tatum, it's going to be good luck to you guys getting whatever you get out of this trade package. I. I just think we're so many years into this. Of it's got to be Tatum or Brown. And it's so funny because you could see with Tatum being back and looking like Jason Tatum, there's this level of opposing fans and they're not even slick about it. Of, well, they can't work together. They got to break them up. It's like, we're in year 10 of this now. Of are these guys ever going to be able to win together? And, yeah, they've won a lot together. They've won one title. But it's not just about titles. They're in it every year when you have the two of them, every single year, the Celtics are a title contender. And I just don't think, for a guy who is older, injury prone, it's contract issues of his own, that they're going to do anything towards breaking that up. It just doesn't make sense. And that's with Giannis praising Joe Missoula or not.
- [53:09]
A
None of that. I think.
- [53:11]
C
I think that's just Giannis now playing games and sending messages.
- [53:15]
A
Well, I think part of that's true. I do think he admires the fact that the Celtics.
- [53:19]
C
Oh, yeah.
- [53:19]
A
Win a lot of games. I think that's. That's. But the thing, to me, that makes me laugh and people get really excited about it. Yeah, I agree. They're going to make a phone call, like, whatever. And again, Giannis has spoken very globally about Boston, but, like, let's just get this out of the way right now. The Bucks are not doing Giannis any favors with whatever trade they make. No, like, dealing him to Boston would be doing him a solid. They're not doing that. The. The. If they had it their way. If the Bucks had it their way at this point, I think it's more likely they trade him to the Kings for something like Demonis, Sabonis and a bunch of other things that they like a lot versus him going to Boston. I don't, I don't think they want to do Giannis any favors the way that handled. And I'll. And I'll make this a Boston related thing. This, this feels a lot like what happened with Rafael Devers and the Boston Red Sox. Like, they're just, you know, it's gotten to a point where it's too toxic. Both, both sides are pointing fingers at everybody and there's going to be a trade that just pisses everybody off and it's gonna have to move on here. I. And I, I am very, I was very on the. As soon as this came out of. You know, Boston has inquired. Of course they've inquired, but, like, you can't. Boston secret sauce is the fact they have so many different guys that on any given night that can get. Get hot. And that includes the Jays, obviously. But that's the, it's the Shireman. So we just spent 10 minutes praising. It's the Housers, it's the Pritchards, it's. It's the, the, the nights where even Josh Minot can carry this team to a victory. You know, I mean, like, there's the, the secret sauce is that I don't think taking all of those assets and consolidating into one. And as Keith has mentioned, like, Giannis is a freak of nature and is like a kind of a competitor of his own that, like, there's not a lot of guys like him around. But I'm not trading all of that depth for one guy who is a top five player when healthy. But obviously he's been hurt a little bit more than he has been recently and is a guy that kind of screws up their floor spacing a little bit and there's only one ball. Like, it's already hard enough to get the Jays to be, you know, guys that can. Can flow in and out of a game together. I think this year, the small stable size that we have has been maybe the best returns in this that we've seen. Now you're going to add another guy that can't stretch the floor, but another guy that needs the ball to be super effective. Like, is there a world. I guess, Kaufman, I'll throw it to you. Is there a world where they trade for Giannis? He comes to Boston into Something different than what he's done before that is additive to this group of players. I'm not so sure about that.
- [56:00]
B
In my mind the answer is no, because. And I'll just bring this back to his current coach when he was here, Doc Rivers, and what, you know, his role obviously in, in getting buy in from Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce and Ray Allen, three guys who that point had done just about as much as they could do individually, were all in around 30 years old, had never won a championship. It was, I'm not saying it was easy, but it was easier to get guys like that to buy into one main goal together versus Tatum and Brown and Giannis who have all already won. And you're asking them at that point to sacrifice one, two, all of them in some way to go in again and get another ring. And I'm not saying that's not motivating, but it's not the same kind of motivation guys care about, you know, have you won? Are you viewed as a winner? And, and it doesn't take much for us, right, for fans or for those in the media to, to give you that label. You got to have one, I'm not saying it's easy to get one, but you don't need it. Two, you don't need three, you don't need to, you know, be competing with Michael Jordan. You don't need to be a role player like a Robert Ori or a Steve Kerr with all these rings. Like you need the one, the one is what you need to, to enter the room and they've got that. And so how motivating would it be for three of them with no depth? You know, and these players are not created equally, but I will make the comparison anyway. If I'm thinking about like LeBron, Luca Reeves and a Lakers team that has no depth behind it, you know, I, I, it's like, it's just that's, that's a, another animal and that like how good is that team? Actually, you know, I've never been particularly impressed. I know they've won 50 plus games, but now you're looking at a team that is reliant going forward on a 40 plus year old LeBron James and two guys who may not play again the whole rest of the year, playoffs included, suddenly it's LeBron and the rest and it's like, well, they're going to go down in the first round. Do you want to be that team? Do you want to sacrifices, as Ev said, all of your depth just to be you know, star heavy, or in this case, superstar heavy. I don't want to do it. I don't think it makes sense. Now what. I will go back to Keith and you can touch on any of that if you'd like as well. But, you know, I. I said, and I think most people believe it, I think you guys believe it, that Giannis is gone no matter what. It's just a matter of where he's going. Some have suggested, though, I'll. I'll just. I'll. I'll give him the room. Some have suggested that, well, maybe he doesn't automatically have to go. It's just someone's got to go. It's either Giannis or it's Doc. Now, I think it's more likely both are gone. I think Doc is going to either walk away or be fired. Or be fired, and they call it walking away. And Giannis is going to be gone. For all of the finger pointing and everything that you guys have already outlined about why this has just gone south at this point in time, guys just need a change of scenery. They need new voices. They need all of it. But Doc certainly has not achieved what he has looked to do since his arrival. He has not made any of this better. It's gotten worse. It's gotten worse year by year by year. And I just. Pe. They got to rip the band Aid at this point. I mean, how long do we need to talk about a guy wanting out and not being devoted anymore to now trying to manipulate the ultimate destination that he lands?
- [59:39]
C
Yeah, you're right. I think both of them are going to go. I'm going to keep it very short because I'm short on time, but it is. Giannis is going to go because his problems are with the Bucks, right? Like it's with the Bucks organization. And I think Giannis wants to continue to compete for championships. They, Deep down, he knows it's not in Milwaukee, and the best world it would be. The NBA comes in and says, all right, everything's reset. Giannis, you can stay. Start all over again, fresh. I think now he's realized that's not going to happen. We're not going to win here. And then I think Doc, I mean, his quote, direct quote, was, I have eight grandchildren now. I need to be thinking about spending more time with them. When he was asked, are you. Do you think you'll be back next year? Think he basically told you, I'm not coming back. I think what's going to happen is there's going to be some form of advisory Role, which is, you know, Doc's moving into an advisor role. We're going to hire a new head coach. We thank him for everything he's done, and then he'll be here in Florida with his grandkids and playing golf and doing what he wants to do. So, yeah, I think we're at the end of the line for all of it, and I don't think any of it results in any of them in Boston other than, you know, games, ceremonies, whatever it may be moving forward.
- [60:49]
B
This is perfect. Just as we're talking, I just checked on my phone and there's a tweet from the. The Run it back show on FanDuel with Beetle and Parsons and. And Lou Williams. Doc apparently was on today.
- [61:03]
A
This. I. This is the.
- [61:05]
B
This is the quote. Doc got his relationship with Giannis. We have a great relationship. You know, Shams wrote an article that was so inaccurate, the first thing I thought was, where's Woj? I miss Woad so much. This freaking guy.
- [61:19]
A
Oh, I.
- [61:20]
B
If we had the time, we'll just.
- [61:22]
A
We'll save it.
- [61:23]
B
We'll save it for another time. Oh, the special, special breed of. Of leader that Doc Rivers, let me tell you. All right, Keith. Well, we always appreciate when you hop on with us here, sir. The next time we'll get to do it will be during the playoffs, right around the corner, as I mentioned a couple of times. Celtics down to their final few games of the regular season. Just to let people know exactly what that looks like. Final two, actually, both at home. Pelicans tonight, if you are listening here on a Friday or Sunday against the Magic. You know, this one being in Boston though, as mentioned, so not in Keith's backyard. And then there'll be a little bit of a delay as we get through the play in tournament. And then it's boom, onto the postseason for Boston and a first round matchup against one of what could be like 85 different teams right now. But we can explore that next week when we get some more clarity. Keith, always appreciate the time, sir. Thank you so much.
- [62:17]
C
Thanks so much for having me. I appreciate it.
- [62:19]
B
Keith Smith, front office show spot track, of course, for Evan Ev. Thank you as well. I am Adam. Remember, everyone, check out the Celtics Beat podcast wherever you get your podcast audio version fully readily available to you, rate, review, subscribe on the show and of course, for video purposes, you can check us out on the CLNS YouTube page, the all access page, for plenty of great Celtics content. We'll talk to you again next time.