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- [00:00]
A
Today is Friday, May 15, and this is Celtics Beat on CLNS Media, the leading online provider of audio video coverage of the Boston Celtics. I'm Adam Kaufman. Episode 676 features spot tracks. Keith Smith.
- [00:14]
B
And I'm Evan Valenti. And today's show is powered by Prize Picks and Gold Belly. Prize Picks is the official daily fantasy partner of CLNS Media. Download the app today. Use the promo code CLNS to get $50 in lineups when you play. $5. And go to goldbelly.com and get free shipping and 20% off your first order with the promo code CBP.
- [00:48]
A
Hey, everybody.
- [00:49]
C
Another week.
- [00:50]
A
It's still lost the NBA playoffs. Ongoing Boston Celtics. It feels like it's what, two months since the team has been playing basketball. I know that's not reality, but it feels that way, doesn't it? Welcome in this is Celtics Beat on the road to the NBA Finals. Who will it be? Will it be the Knicks? How painful would that be? Spurs on the cusp, I hope, of beating the Timberwolves because I really want to see what is kind of the de facto NBA Finals in the Western Conference finals, as far as as I'm concerned with San Antonio against Oklahoma City. Maybe if we have time, we'll get to all that little later. Adam Kaufman, as always, Evan Valenti is here, our special guest today. He's been actually a frequent contributor to the network of late here on clns. And that is Keith Smith from Spot Track, the front office show with Trevor Lane. Get him on Twitter at Keith Smith, NBA Every time I look, Keith, the follower count gets higher and higher. You are approaching 200k, my friend, and that is nothing to sneeze at. How you doing?
- [01:47]
C
Yeah, it'd be nice if that 200k came with the occasional nice comment from one of those followers. But that's all right. It's okay. It's, you know, it's all good. It's all, all part of it. But yeah, it's. I always tell people this is a very weird time of year when you do what I do because I'm living in two worlds. I'm living in the playoffs. What's going on right now, world, which, you know, is awesome. But then I am, you know, solely focused on the draft and for free agency in the off season to come. So it is, yeah, it's a weird time. But. But yeah, those are all very much the first of first world complaints if, if they are complaints at all.
- [02:21]
A
NBA draft lottery behind us, of course. Sorry to the Pacers. Congrats to the Wizards and other takeaways that people can have from that. No impact on the Celtics really obviously knowing this team is going to pick provided it hangs onto that pick late in the opening round at 2027 I think the pick is but we've got a lot coming your way. First, want to remind you always rate review subscribe to the audio version of the podcast. Wherever you get your podcast, we are available to you or if you like to see our smiling faces, the CLNS Media YouTube page, specifically the all access page. You can find this show and so many others across the network. We appreciate you hanging out now. I very specifically Keith wanted to have you here for this show. We're going to talk a little bit about Jalen Brown stuff because how can you not? The guy is just in the media in some form or another every single day and we will start there. But the bulk of the show, if anyone wants to just fast forward through the Jalen Brown conversation, I don't blame you if you're a little just tired, burnt out from talking about Jalen and his media tour right now, most of the show. And the reason that you are here, being the capologist that you are, is really to focus on not rebuilding but remaking, reimagining the Boston Celtics in the pursuit of Banner 19. Hopefully as soon as next year will Jalen be part of the team? Is a Giannis trade realistically on the table? Who are some of the guys that we could be talking about with respect to tpes trade player exceptions or mid level exceptions and on and on because I'm sure you guys fit the same mold. Nev, you and I are in one of them. I've got multiple group threads and in all of these text threads it's Celtics should get this guy, Celtic should get this guy. What about this guy and this guy? I know this guy, this guy and this guy and it's driving me nuts because I feel like we need a primer. People need an explanation as to what is realistic, what isn't, what's plausible, what's a pipe dream but still realistic, what's likely to happen, all of it. So again, we're going to touch on that stuff. Keith, I imagine you are mentally prepared for all of this.
- [04:30]
C
Yeah, is as best as I can be. The one one thing I always say with the Celtics, especially under Brad Stevens, has been the more it is talked about by people like us or reported about in the media, the less likely it is to happen. The only move I remember being really like everybody's like oh, the Celtics are going to do that. They're going to make that happen. Was the Drew Holiday trade. And that just was like perfect timing. Everything fell together. Where it's like that makes absolute sense for Boston to go get him. Everything else, the Derek White trade, the Porzingis trade, even some of the other acquisitions Brad has made throughout the years, none of them anybody really saw coming. I mean, yeah, there's enough people who say enough that. What is that? You put a million monkeys in a room and they'll eventually type war and peace or whatever it is. Somebody saw all these broken clock. Right?
- [05:23]
A
Twice a day.
- [05:24]
C
Yeah, exactly. Someone saw all these coming. Right. But it's like. But they work. Tend to work a lot in silences, which is why I think they get a lot done, because they know they're not going to negotiate through the media. The Celtics aren't going to turn around and run your offer off to 14 other people and do all that stuff. But, yeah, it's. Yeah, I've spent a lot of time thinking about it, especially over the last couple weeks since the season ended. Really kind of dialing into it. So, yeah, it should be fun. Yeah.
- [05:51]
A
If we talk about this all the time. The fact that the, you know, deliberately or otherwise, the Ainge administration here in Boston was filled with leaks. Maybe it was just Ainge himself giving it to people. Obviously, you know, whether it was negotiating in the media or just letting their intentions, whatever, you know, however you want to frame it, stuff was out there. And then Danny could, after something didn't happen, give us the whole it takes two to tango and all of that stuff. You need a dance partner, however you want to look at it. But Brad Stevens is, Keith said, operates in the shadows. They're. They're. This is a leak free organization when it wants to be. The only one. You mentioned Drew Holiday, the only other one. And I hated this deal. I hate it now. I hated it at the time. I was very vocal on this show. Vucovich, that was the other one. That was the other guy that it felt like people were just screaming for, go get him, go get him, go get him. And that ended up happening. But other than that, I would tend to agree with Keith. Usually it's a guy we're not even talking about.
- [06:53]
B
Well, you and I have had a lot of discussions about how Brad tells us what he wants, but doesn't really tell you the guy.
- [06:59]
A
Sure.
- [07:00]
B
And I think he did that again with his last press conference when he wanted to talk about rim pressure and putting more pressure on the rim and getting a better first shot offense looking for guys like that. And I think we'll talk about that later with Keith in terms of what those guys look like. But that, you know, I think he was pretty direct with the direction they want ahead and it just depends on who they're targeting. But again, we'll get into that a little bit, trust me.
- [07:24]
A
All right, let's start with Brad with Jalen Brown because, excuse me, he's gone on. Outside of his own Twitch Streaming and Tracy McGrady's comments and all that stuff, more recently, he's just appearing everywhere he went on the Jennifer Hudson show. Now, most of that wasn't really talking about the Celtics. It was more talking about, you know, his impact on society and trying to follow in Kobe Bryant's footsteps in terms of off the court focuses and things along those lines. But he did do one show and forgive me, I don't remember the podcast, but he went on the other day and this went viral because it was his memory versus reality. Breaking down the 201819 season and his coming off the bench and the loyalty to Gordon Hayward and not even acknowledging that the existence of Morris, you know, who ultimately was really a huge piece in, in this playing time starting lineup issue outside and around injuries that Jaylen seemed to forget about. But he's, he's talking about again, it's years ago. So maybe Brad isn't sensitive to this stuff, but he's kind of calling out Brad. And in terms of the way he handled Gordon and how Jaylen felt a little slighted, dismissed. And I just, the more it feels like he needs to take a break. And I know I've said this before, I think I said this last week. We want to hear from athletes. We beg of athletes, coaches, whomever to speak their minds. And then we're hypocrites because as soon as they do it, we say, maybe you shouldn't have said that. We try and save them from themselves to some degree. So we talk out of both sides of our mouth with this stuff. I want him and any other athlete or coach to use their platforms to feel free to speak their minds. But when you frame things in revisionist history in certain ways that just are not the way they went down. And now everyone is writing about this and this is only one example. It feels. And I'm, I'm taking a leap here. And this is we're going to get ev, we're going to get more of the Kaufman hates Jalen comments in the YouTube section. This more than ever has me feeling, not feeling Wondering if Jalen is trying to shoot his way out of town a little bit. Some of this stuff that. That he's coming around, that he's doing, that he's saying is just escalating. What could just kind of be a quiet start to the off season. And I'm trying. I'm just trying to figure out the motivation behind it ultimately, because if it's not that, and I don't want it to be that, I don't want them to trade Jaylen Brown, but if it's not that, I don't know what it is.
- [10:16]
C
Yeah, I've been thinking a lot about this, especially with Jalen, and it was. You know, we had the. In the immediate aftermath of the season. This is my favorite season ever. And, of course, some people tried that to turn that into Jalen hates Jason Tatum. Like, that's why. And I was like, I don't think that was it. Like, it's a little weird when you won a title a couple years ago and you're the finals mvp. But then when he explained, it was like, all right, I could kind of see, you know, why he feels that way. And you had the McGrady comments, and he came or. Brad was asked first. It was like, look, if he has a problem with the organization, with me, this is the first time hearing of it with. We talk all the time. We have a great relationship. Then Jalen himself was like, it's. I think his exact terms were. It was ridiculous that Brad had even addressed that and had to answer those questions. He's like, I have no problems with Brad. Like, Brad's been great. He's been there basically my entire career. And, you know, they. And he, you know, went through all that. But then. Yeah, then he says the other day, he's like, hey, let me tell you about this time when Gordon Hayward came in and, like, I was on the bench, and there was a fan petition that changed Brad's mind, which people dug up and found, like, 12 people signed it. So I'm pretty certain that didn't change Brad Stevens mind on anything. I think it was more. I think.
- [11:38]
B
Yeah.
- [11:39]
C
Do I think Brad Stevens gave Gordon Hayward a very long rope? Yeah, absolutely. He gave him tons and tons of leeway to prove he could be the guy. They have a very long history together. Celtics invested a ton into getting Hayward, and, you know, and then eventually it was all right. Yeah, he's just not the guy we thought we were getting. And Jalen Brown is better and Tatum is better, and we're gonna do this. I Mean, that entire season, what a train wreck that whole year turned out to be for many, many reasons. But, yeah, I do think it's a little. It's a little weird. Like, it felt like, all right, you addressed it, Brad addressed it, and everything's cool. Now go do what you're going to do all summer. Promote your, you know, the. The absolutely incredible work he does in the community, you know, And I know he just got nominated for the Social justice award with the league that came out today. Very well earned by him. And I think for that, like, yeah, go do those things. I know he's got his own brand. Like. Like, you know, promote your brand. But, yeah, it just feels like, why. Why are we bringing up all this stuff? I mean, in NBA terms, anything that happened, you know, seven, eight years ago, that's ancient history. Like, that's like, why are we even talking about this anymore?
- [12:54]
B
I think we're seeing Jalen a lot. And it goes back to last week with Washburn Kaufman, where he just wants respect. He wants to be treated like one of the best 10 players in the league. And the. The best 10 players in the league, they go around, do media circuits all the time. Although you don't see Jokic, you don't see Shay, you don't see Halibut. Like. Like, I find this really funny because you don't see Tatum all that often, but you saw him more recently with the comeback in the. In the. The torn Achilles and stuff. So that. That's maybe a little bit different. But, like, you never hear from Jokic. He wants it that way. You never hear from Shay. He wants it that way. We hear from Ant a lot, and.
- [13:31]
A
Because he wants it that way.
- [13:32]
B
Yeah, because that wants it that way. Right. So I think Jalen's doing this thing. We're like, hey, look, look, I'm a. I. I'm gonna be a. Either first team or, you know, first guy in the second team all NBA this year. Like, I. I was a top seven player in the league this year. I deserve my due credit. And just like, so maybe that's fine, but you also get to control a little bit of what comes out. So he goes on Jennifer Hudson's show and he talks about, you know, his philanthropy, which is, as Keith has said, is spectacular. The imprint he's made in the city of Boston with, alongside Drew Holiday, by the way, who's still doing stuff for Boston, and we love the holidays, is remarkable. And. And some of that stuff needs to be talked about more because we oftentimes tell the. Tell athletes to shut up and dribble and then when they do great stuff, we don't give them the accolades for it. So I'm totally cool with that. But yeah, the stuff where he had to come out and apologize for Brad having to answer stuff and then goes right back to the Brad stuff is like really puzzling to me that I don't understand and to. It just further gives credit and credence to the TMAX stuff that came out where tmax like, well, I was just inferring, you know, the, it's like, well, no. Is it maybe sort of real here? So, like, again, I love Jalen. Jalen's, you know, again, he's a guy that speaks his mind and has done a lot more recently. I think Tatum's sort of in his own way, starting to become more comfortable talking with people. But you have to understand, like, what's going to get clicks and what's not and why they're going to get clicks. Right, Right. So you, you know, you, you go on a, an hourong podcast, you talk about a bunch of stuff. But considering what has been in the news about Jalen recently, like, you know, the negative stuff's getting pulled and they're going to promote the crap out of that. Jalen, I love him to death. He has to either care more about that stuff or at least try and not give the, the, the, the people like us and the people like the aggregators and the media more, more ammo to work with. And, and maybe he's got to figure that out on his own. Maybe he needs to have a better veteran around him to teach him that stuff. But like, it's not shocking to me cough that I, we woke up, like, I forget what morning it was or what part of the afternoon it was. We were like, here's this. And I was like, jalen, you got to do better than that. You got to know that's coming after an hour long episode of whatever that's going to.
- [15:46]
A
This is, this is where Jalen's reputation works against him. Because what do we all universally say about Jaylen Brown, the lecturer at Harvard, at mit, every, all the social just initiatives as you talked about, he's brilliant. We view him as the smartest guy in the room. And so when you go out and do stupid things or say stupid things, it feels like it was done with intent, it feels like it was done with purpose. And that is a bad look. He doesn't do things by our estimation, what do we know? Right? But by our estimation, it doesn't Feel like Jaylen Brown goes out and says something accidentally. Accidentally. Or something filters out from someone close to him accidentally. That's where. And maybe stuff does, but the reputation is not that. And so this stuff tends to work against him. The other part that I, you know, you guys brought up in terms of how the demand for respect and, and, and how he's viewed. Yes. Top 10 player in the NBA this year. You could make a case for him for first team, all NBA, more than likely because of the exemptions that Kate got, that Luca got. He's going to be second team. That's fine. It was an incredible season for him. He's going to get MVP votes. But if we live in this weird universe where everybody is healthy, I know that's not reality, but let's just pretend everybody's healthy. I asked this of you guys. I asked this of you listening. Jalen Brown, top 10 player in the NBA.
- [17:22]
B
Nope.
- [17:23]
A
Nope. And that's not a slight. Yeah, he's top 15. He's top 20. He's not top 10. So Jaylen Brown, you can go around and basically demand top 10 NBA player attention and maybe you'll get it, depending on what comes out of your mouth. But you're not a top 10 player. You're an incredible player. It's no knock to be a top 15, top 20 player in the NBA. There are a lot of players. Doesn't mean everyone is top. This is why Ev and I, we have the conversation. It took me forever. I was like the last guy to come around on the. Is Jason Tatum a superstar semantic conversation. Because to me, you can have, you know, upwards of 30 all stars. You can have even more stars. But to be a superstar, that to me is elite company. That to me is a group of like five to seven people. You know, you got to be a winner at the highest level. You got to be a perennial first team all NBA MVP conversation guy. Jalen Brown is not a superstar. Jayson Tatum is a superstar. And that's just the way it is with this team. And that's the way it's going to be. And it's starting to feel now, Keith, like he's got a real problem with that.
- [18:47]
C
Yeah, I think, you know, like, when I think about this, because a lot of the lens, especially at this time of year, I think about is in the lens of roster building. And one of the things I say all the time is because people all, you know, you get into trade talks, right? And it's like somebody posts their fake trades and that's great. And then somebody from one of the teams would be like, no, that guy's untouchable, and you can't have that guy, and this guy's untouchable. And I. I always try to remind people, take whatever number you think is untouchable. It's really probably about somewhere between five and eight players in the entire league, for better or worse. I know a lot of people have feelings about him. I thought when Bill Simmons used to do his trade value column was really, really a good exercise, because basically what he was saying was, it is, hey, if you're number one on the list, when you're number one, nobody else behind you is getting you, right? Like, that's not happening. But if you're number two, it's like, all right, well, if number one's offered for you, of course you do it, right? And that's where I try to tell people all the time, guys are not untouchable. And I think with Jalen, what I worry about and I. And I. I think it is this now, this constant push for. And I don't necessarily think it's in a selfish or bad way, but I think it is. Yeah, I want the team to win, and I want to win titles, but I want everybody to make sure they know I was a big part of why we won. No, I don't know that he feels like it. I need to be more a part of it than Jason Tatum. Maybe he does, but I think it's. At least I want to be. You know, when it's mentioned that Celtics won't. I want it to be mentioned. Jaylen Brown drove that, you know, along. Maybe it's along with Jason Tatum. Maybe it's there and it's, you know, like a lot of these other guys. You said with Nikola, Jokic doesn't have to say it, right? Like, just everybody knows, like, oh, yeah, Jokic is. Is the guy. And that's a ridiculous bar to even compare anybody to right now in the league. But, you know, SGA is the same way. Even a guy like Kate Cunningham, we don't hear him talking about this stuff. You know, it's just like, just, you know what? Unfortunately, is going to get to a point. We all know how it works in Boston. He's going to get to a point of, would you shut up already and just play? Like, I don't want to hear any more about it. If you're as good as you think you are, get the team to the finals again. And then. Then I'm happy to listen to whatever it is you want to, you know, talk about. And that's not even telling them to shut up about the off court stuff like that. I would hope most people would be like that's a whole separate awesome thing he does. But it's this constant like hey, put respect. And then the challenge is every time you log into social media, I know you're going to get them on. The comments on the show is like, no, he does reserve worse, right? Because it's like it turns into this almost like echo chamber of like, yeah, nobody does respect you enough. And it's like, all right, you know how, what does it have to be like? Do the other players need to, you know, bow down and kiss the sneakers before the games? Like what? Like where do we end on this like disrespect level? Or is it just always going to kind of be there?
- [21:52]
A
So keep them or trade them. We're going to get into that in just a second. First quick break to tell you today's show is powered by prize picks. Well, the regular season is wrapped in the NBA playoffs. Of course they are here which they involved, you know, a certain team in our area. There's no better way though to cash in on the high flying hoops action than prize picks, a preferred partner of the NBA. Every bucket, every dime, every win means more when you are playing on prize picks. So don't pass up your next shot with prize picks. Get $50 instantly in lineups when you play your first $5 lineup.
- [22:27]
B
Yeah, price picks, prize pick, live squares. There we go. During the NBA playoffs are here and you can win a trip to the NBA Finals. Coffin you and I along. Everybody else that plays prize picks can be headed to the NBA finals. To enter, just make a $5 lineup with at least one live NBA player pick during any part of the 2026 NBA playoffs. That's it. And live player picks are picks made after a game is already in progress. Speaking of picks, Kaufman, you knotted it up last week. We are tied once again. After I went one and three. You went two or three with your flex play Friday picks. We are on similar wavelengths with this one. So for Friday night in the association I am on cade more than 41 and a half points, rebounds and assists. WEMBY More than 16 and a half rebounds and assists. And then Dylan Harper who's been outrageously good for the Spurs. We're going more than seven and a half rebounds and assists in that game against the Timberwolves.
- [23:27]
A
How do you think we're going to do this time around?
- [23:29]
B
I think you're gonna be probably two out of three. No two out of three.
- [23:33]
A
Well, I better I guess I better keep pace get two out of three myself. So as as we always like to talk about again, if we hit all three then we 3x the money. Two out of three, we get the money back. Getting your money back. It's easy, easy, easy in as little as 15 minutes rolls right into your account. You could use Venmo again. So simple. So if your lineup is on fire, prize picks offers early payout, that's another thing to think about. Hasn't necessarily always happened to us as EV has talked about, but it is something that you can explore as well. Download the Prize Picks app today. Use Code CLNs get $50 in lineups after playing your first $5 lineup. That is code CLNs to get $50 in lineups after Playing your first $5 lineup. Let's get back to the show. We're back here with Keith Smith and let's get into the offseason roster building and whatever transformation this may or may not look like as it relates to the Celtics. And to go back to something Keith said before, yeah it's a fun exercise. We're talking about what is financially plausible from likely realistic to maybe this could happen to complete pipe dream but financially it works. We could talk about all the different levels of this even though whatever we say Brad and Mike's, Aaron and all those guys probably going to do something completely different because we just don't know. One thing that we do know they did is did a tremendous job financially not only in obviously leaving themselves with enough to have a very productive 56 win regular season overachieving by everybody's metrics one you know, to the degree that Brad honestly even came out and he didn't use this word but suggested that it was kind of a fraudulent regular season when you go 3 and 11 against the best teams in the NBA. But this past year absent Jason Tate and most of that season was not about competing for a championship even though our we moved the goalposts and our eyes widened and all of that. When the playoffs came around we looked at the betting nods and we looked at the matchups and the path in the wide open conference. This year was about resetting the financial situation. So this team and shout out to our guy John Corrales, of course another member of the Celtics media and podcast family. He said Boston salary situation reading from an article he did for Sports Illustrated tax line is $201 million the first apron 209 million the second apron is 222 million. The Celtics are below right now. All of those thresholds after, of course, moving on from Holiday, from Porzingis, not bringing back Horford or Cornett, and then the various moves that were made during the season. Now they. In terms of fully guaranteed salaries, I'm not going to give you all the salaries, but Tatum, Brown, White Houser, Pritchard, Gonzalez, Garza, about $170 million team options on a bunch of guys totaling about 17 and a half million. Shireman, Kada, Walsh, Williams, Shulga, Harper, Banton. You also have the 27th overall pick. As we talked about coming up in the draft. If they keep it, Boston will in all likelihood not bring back Vuchovic. I don't know why the hell you would. So that takes you to about $191 million, roughly $10 million short of the tax line and 18 and change below the first apron. Okay, that's the boring math stuff that you may or may not care about. There's one untouchable, I think most would agree, and that is Jason Tatum. Jalen Brown is close. He's close, but you have to listen, not only because of what's going on here in the off season, it's just for what he makes and the potential extension at $70 million a year that he is due and the fact that if you want to in a meaningful way, change this roster, you really can only do it with a couple of guys. Jalen Brown, Derrick White. Most guys are making lesser dollars comparatively, you know, much less. And then of course, there's the TPE of roughly $28 million, which Boston is famous for not using. But maybe this year is different. We can talk about that, too. Start with Jalen. He keeps getting attached to Giannis Antentokounmpo because we all expect Milwaukee to deal Giannis and he wants to go to a contender. He wants to stay in the East. Feels like he's going to determine his landing spot. And whichever team ultimately works this out is going to have to just kill Milwaukee the best offer that it's willing to. I would not be the least bit surprised if the Celtics are involved in terms of maybe we get the old Danny Ainge three team deal. You're helping move some money around some picks and the Celtics help facilitate something. I don't believe we're going to see a Jaylen Brown Giannis Attenta Kumpo swap. I don't. Doesn't mean they haven't talked about it, haven't inquired. I just don't think we're going to see it. I don't want to see it. I'm way. I love Giannis. I, I love what the potential fit would be on the floor. I am deeply concerned about the injury history and what is to come, especially knowing what some of those leg and calf injuries turn into, namely the Achilles. Scares me to death. Jaylen Brown, generally a durable guy. It's just not a trade I want to make. I don't know if you guys want to make it, but I, I'm not ready to. It's got to be the right thing, and I don't. I'm not sure the right thing exists when it comes to splitting up the Jays. I'm just not ready to do it.
- [29:13]
B
I don't know. What do you. I, I, this history being a lot here. I don't know. I feel like the history of these two, these two guys being together is clouding your judgment. Coffin, am I wrong on that
- [29:24]
A
in terms of just the elite levels of regular season success and deep playoff runs?
- [29:29]
C
Yep.
- [29:29]
B
Yep. Could be.
- [29:31]
A
Sure.
- [29:32]
B
Okay. Same for you, Keith.
- [29:35]
C
Yeah, I mean, and I, I did it on this show. I've done it on any other show in Boston. I know I did it enough on Boston radio that I think some of the places won't have me back again. Whereas, like, stop trying to split up the Jays. Right? Like, like, it was a. Because that went on for years and I got it right. The team was banging their head against the Eastern Conference finals for several years in a row, and then they finally broke through and it was like, I was like, look, these guys like each other. They like playing together, and there are a lot of people, I don't care if they're friends, you know, I want to win championships and all that stuff. And it's like, look, you get the right guys around them, they'll win championships. And it wasn't. And the cool thing was when they won the title, wasn't like they got the right guys around them because they slotted into like 2 and 3 or 3 and 4 on the pecking order because they loaded up with guys better than them. No, they got guys who Brad said when he took over was, they're the pillars, right? We need to build a guys who can work around them now to support us. And that finally broke through. So I am, I am starting to change my tomb a little bit on that did. It's not just the recency stuff with Jaylen Brown. It's the. I think we saw how far a Jalen Brown led offense can go. Can take you at times, I get it. Jason Tatum wasn't there when he was there, looked pretty good, but there still wasn't exactly Jason Tatum. I get exactly what you're saying about the worries with Giannis, because, I mean, with Tatum, I'm hoping whatever this was right now, just say whatever it was, because I know people have a lot of opinions on it. That caused him to miss the game Seven against Philly was just a result of. It was maybe a little bit too. Too much, too soon. I don't think he returned too soon, but I think it was maybe too much on top of him coming back. And it's just residual stuff, so. But if that turns into Jason Tatum, that we knew, right? And the team was like, you had to get this guy to sit out for a rest day. You basically have to not put his uniform in his locker because otherwise, like, he's like, I'm going out there, I'm going to play. Like, it's. Yeah, I don't like taking days off. That turns into, Jason Tatum misses 15, 20 games a year. Now all of a sudden it's like, all right, well, that's a whole different thing. Then you had Giannis, who might be 15, 20, might be on the good side of time that he misses just with the way he plays. But I go back to this. Giannis, out of nowhere, randomly heaped all kinds of praise on Joe Missoula. Super weird, right? Like, it's like. Like, why? And also, like, Joe Missoula is not exactly the kind of coach who prioritizes the things that Giannis is good at, right? Like, Giannis isn't like, man, I want to go there and shoot ten three pointers a night, too. Like, it just. That was out of nowhere. Then Brad's very pointed comments of, look, when basically asking, dude, I'm gonna boil it down to what the question really was is, does the team shoot too many three pointers? He basically said, look, we'd love more layups and dunks and free throws. We don't have a rock. Like, basically put it on himself. I didn't build a roster that can do that. And then said, next year, we want to put more pressure on the paint and on the rim. And all the things he went into about, you know, where we want to be. And on top of his comments of, like, hey, we weren't very good against the best teams. Like, I think. And then he basically said, we're not good enough. Like, we're not good enough to win a title. And that's the expectation here. Is to win and compete for championships. Yeah, maybe there is something there, you know, Brown for Giannis because it's. Don't get me wrong, no NBA trade is simple, but the math works. You can make it work. Do you pull a third team in? Like, does Atlanta come in? Does Portland come in? They're the ones who actually get Jaylen Brown and they deliver all the young talent and draft picks to the Bucks and that's how this works out. You told me after the end of the day was Jalen Brown for Giannis more or less straight up. Right. The Celtics don't have to put in a lot else themselves. I would probably say, yeah, it's probably worth the shot at seeing what this looks like. Let's see what this looks like to remake this team. Because I have long said either Joe Missoula and the Celtics, meaning, like the team, the front office, they either need to get more balance in the offense or you need to get better, more consistent shooters than what they've had the last couple of seasons. You need guys who are going to knock it down at a 40 plus percent clip because otherwise it just. I think you've pushed it as far as it can go. Now, I'm not anybody who's going to scream and yell that they shoot too many, but let's shoot them with better shooters. Let's shoot them in better spots, but let's balance those out. When you're not shooting threes, what are you getting? You're getting layups, you're getting dunks, you're getting fouled. Like, those are the things I think they need to do. So if just that portion of this Jalen Brown for Giannis, yeah, I could probably get there. That's. Now it's just like when it was Jalen Brown for Kevin Durant. If it turns into Jalen Brown, plus plus plus plus then I'm out. Like, that's too much. That's. There's too much risk that Celtics are taking on there. But if it's, you know, somebody else is really kind of paying the rest of it for you. Yeah, I'm probably on board with at least trying it because I just don't know that this team's going to get back to where they want to go with the Two Jays leading the way.
- [34:58]
B
I'll be honest, Kaufman, it's the thing that Gary Washburn said to us last week, and it's about this upcoming extension. I asked him point blank, are you going to be like Brian Windhorse with fingers in the air, you know, waiting for this extension to come out. And he said yes, because I don't think he's. And I'm paraphrasing for Gary. So I apologize. If it's a quote, it's not a direct quote. Basically, you know, Boston probably can't afford to pay two guys $70 million, you know, in their, in their mid, their mid-30s and keep a team competitive around them. It's going to be really difficult now. You know, Jaylon would have to be the first domino here, but they'd probably talk to both of the Jays to say, hey, like, look, if you guys want to win some stuff, we're going to have to not pay us 70 million. There's just no way around that. And if Jalen's not cool with that, which is totally fine, by the way, then you have to start making some, some, some trades here. And that's kind of where I have settled for both of you is like, I, you know, if Jalen is, is on board for taking a little less and into Gary's point, Jalen can't take less and then have Tam Go make 70 million a year. That ain't going to work either. It's going to have to be both of them. But if that's the case, then I'm totally fine right now. Jalen Brown to the wheels come off. However, you know you're going to have to improve this roster. Brad said it, we've all said it. They weren't good enough against the best teams. They tried really hard. In the regular season, that gets you somewhere. But in the playoffs, everybody's trying hard and you're going to have to figure out a way to make this team better. Now, the question I'll ask to both of you, maybe Keith will start with you. If you're keeping Jaylen Brown, you clearly have to upgrade the, the big man position. As much as we all love NES K, last year, he was a revelation. He was awful in the playoffs, he was terrible. Couldn't stay on the floor. Too many fouls. He had one good game in game seven and it was too late. Just way too late. Is there a way to. Is there a way to upgrade the big man position and keep Jaylen Brown on this team? And Derrick White, Is there a way to, like, take Mitchell Robinson as he hits free agency here and roll with that? Because we all know, I mean, I. From where I'm standing. I've listened to Joe Missoula talk about Mitch Robinson and the way they've defended him when he's played in the game by Hacking him constantly to get him off the floor. I think he thinks very highly of Mitchell Robinson. Is that maybe an alternative plan in your view, Keith?
- [37:24]
C
Yeah, I, I'm going to answer your question, I promise. But I go back to one other thing you said Jalen Brown is going to probably ask for a two year max extension this offseason and I would tell him absolutely not. He has three years left under contract. After taking this year out, he still has three more guaranteed years left. There is no reason to give him any form of extension that isn't, hey, give me an extension that's going to pay me a ridiculous team friendly amount. Right. And I'm not saying like a minimum or even like 10 million, but like I'll take 45 or 50 million and take a huge haircut off. Sure. Then yeah, let's talk, right? Let's figure this out. But he's not going to do that because he has no reason to do that coming off the best season, individual season of his career. But if I'm the Celtics, I'm like, dude, you still have three years left. Like we do not need to do this now. Let's go back a year. Everybody killed the Phoenix Suns for giving Devin Booker the two year old. It's going to work out to be about 140ish million, probably in that range when he still had three years left. This is the same place that Jaylen Brown is going into. And it's important to note, unlike Jayson Tatum on his last year because this goes back to what a superstars get versus Melee stars, Jason Tatum has a player option on the final year of his extension so he can opt out and be a free agent actually the same summer Jaylen Brown can in 2029, which is like, that's like the oh my gosh. Like we could lose them both in the same year. Like, you know, but that's still three years away. But my big thing is I would not give him any kind of, I wouldn't give him any kind of extension that isn't. You're really working in my favor. Just because it's, dude, you got three more years to go. We don't need to do that. To your question about can they upgrade? Yeah, here's, here's how I look at things. The two numbers that are really relevant for me with the Celtics are they are going into the summer with all the stuff Adam called out that they've guaranteed contracts. The guys are likely to keep on the team options because I think guys like Ben and Shulga, those Guys could go without much worry to keep counting in the draft pick. They're about 15 million under the luxury tax. I think then in all in an ideal world I think they'd like to avoid the tax one more year reset the repeater tax fully and go. But I don't think it's super necessary. I think if they're like hey if it's. If we could get somewhere where it's a championship level team they'll go into tax. They will not go back over the second apron. He already started the process of trying to free up that draft pick. And here's why it's important to free up that frozen pick. They already have two other picks that are encumbered. One is a swap with the spurs that is only top one protected. And if the Celtics are even thinking about being the number one pick in the draft then everything went wrong between now and a couple of years from now. And then they all pick to Portland that is not unprotected. So I don't think anybody thinks the spurs are going to stink anytime soon. So what you're hoping there is like maybe the spurs are swapping 29 for 28 right. Like and it doesn't really matter and who cares because they're both off awesome. But that Portland pick that's just gone. That's gone. And you know what? Not even complaining. Help deliver a championship. That's all that matters. Who cares if that pick is gone. But they are about 36 million under the. Under the second apron. So that's the number that you need to really I think somewhere between that 15 and 36. That's your spending window. Right. So I think with the Celtics what we're really kind of looking at here is they come in and they are going to basically come in and they're going to give you. We could spend the non taxpayer mid level or we're going to spend a whole bunch of that trade exception through a sign and trade or through a straight trade of 27.7 million and that's how it'll be go down.
- [41:34]
A
Who to you is. Let's get into the names. Who do you is a a viable target. That again 30 million is not what it used to be in the NBA I realized but again Derek White is a 30 million dollar player. So we're talking about a little less than that at the 27.7 and you can't spend all of it. So who is someone that you think is a realistic target fits the needs and again the needs that Brad outlined for us it's help the front court get a legitimate big and it's more consistent, reliable scoring off the bench. Which is why our buddy Gary brought up bringing back Anthony Simons at short money. Not money like that, but short money. What do you like at, you know, at the tpe first, if we're to believe for to convince ourselves, Boston might actually use one of these this time around.
- [42:26]
C
Well, and I think that's even a little unfair. They use the Hayward one. That's how they got Evan Fournier. Then when they created one for Fournier, they used it to get Josh Richardson. So, you know, then when they could have created one for Josh Richardson, they didn't. They ended up doing the Derek White deal in a slightly different structure, which is fine, but they have actually used large chunks of these TPS to get players who were 48. All right, that didn't really work out. Richardson, he was better than I think most people thought he was going to be when they. When they, you know, got him. So. But yeah, so anyway, I think. All right, if you're looking at free agent big men, we're going to take Jalen Duran and Walker Kessler off the board. You'd have to overpay because they're both restricted free agents. Their teams don't want to let them go. Not going to happen. Those are. Those are super fun targets to think about. I just don't think there's anything realistic in there. And if I'm the Celtics, I am being very, very careful about trading additional cap draft capital in the2030s. Just like, let's have something left here after everybody who's probably with the team has probably started to move on or moved on. Like, you don't want to sell too much of the future unless it's like, yeah, that guy puts us over the top for a title. So then you get into now you go down the list. Have mentioned Mitchell Robinson. Okay, sure. Right. That's an idea. I don't love it if you're going to have Keita, because I think they're very similar type players. They're guys who are going to play around the rim. They're going to rebound, they're going to defend. When I have it, the center position is. It's almost like when you have a running back in football where it is one guy is going to be the guy. He. He's your power back. He's going to get all the short yardage, plow it up inside and just hammer guys. Right. Then you get the other ones is the quick guy Right. He's gonna, you know, get to the outside, he's gonna break long runs, he's maybe a pass catcher. I like a different kind of guy. So if I've got one guy, which is Keita, then give me, give me somebody who can space the floor in a little bit. Theory that should have been Vuch. A pause there to say, not fully ruling out Vuch. Only reason why I say that is you could do two things with him. You can pay him at a reasonable number. I know some people are like, the reasonable number is zero or you know, he should give us money back. Right? But the reality is if you gave him something in the range of the mid level but kept it short, like a year and then maybe like second year team option or non guarantee, that gives you some money that you can use in a trade down the line. Right? Like, and that's something that is important to think about with roster management. I, as much as I am a soulless transaction robot, I. These are still people, right? These are, these are players. I don't like turning them into just a salary number. But that happens sometimes, right? Like sometimes it is. And when I start to feel a lot less bad about it is when a guy's getting more than he's probably going to get anywhere else, right? So If Vuch gets 15 million and as bad as it was in the playoffs, he would still be probably the best backup center in the league in the regular season. Like he is still a good productive player. Usually a change up then. Okay, do you at least call. Hey, Kristaps worked out pretty good last time around. What do you, what are you thinking? Right? He's a free agent, he's not going to get paid anywhere near the 30 million he had before. You thinking you might be, you know, up for a return here to Boston, that could be a thing. Brook Lopez veteran get there, you're so now then you're getting into. These are like year to year kind of options, right? Brook Lopez would be come in fairly low money, probably 8 million or so chunk of the MLE come in be a part of the the rotation gives you a different look. Still a good defender, a guy like Jock Landale, fine. I think Dal Horford ship has sailed for good this time. And I'm like, that's coming back. But I think he's gonna opt out. Then you're getting into like daron Sharp ton of people. I think this is more, what's the word? Nostalgia. People are like, what about Rob Williams? Why not Rob Williams? And it's Like, Katie gives you everything Rob Williams gives you with way better availability at this point. I loved Rob. I loved everything he did with the Celtics. But I mean, that's like, I would need that to be insanely cheap coming in there. And then you're getting into like Yusuf Nurkic, really good offensive player. Actually had a surprisingly good offensive season. Can rebound, can't defend worth of crap. But that's what you have Keda for, right? That's your idea of like, you get that. All right. We got a pretty good combo there. So if you're going with a big. That's there and then the last. Because I know I've talked forever here on your own show. Anthony Simons. I think there's a real possibility. We see him back in Boston. He seemed very happy in Boston. I knew I got to get this wrist thing taken care of one way or another. This gave me the chance to get it done. I. He healed up well. I mean, he talked openly about like, I would go back to Boston in a second. And I know the team really liked it, was really happy with what he gave them. And that's. They, they don't need another wing, right? They need another wing. Like I need another cookie. Like, they, they. They just got plenty of them, right? What they need is guard depth because the guard depth is Derek White and Peyton Pritchard and that's it. And they need big men like that. That is what. What this team needs. You know, this, this summer.
- [48:02]
A
I was not prepared for that line. We're gonna take a quick break today. Today's show is powered by. All right, guys, we need to tell you about the most incredible, unforgettable gift that you can get dads like me this Father's Day. Plenty of dads out there listening to this show, right? And if not, hopefully you've got one. Have you ever heard of Gold Belly? It's. This amazing site celebrates the best of America by shipping our country's most iconic foods from legendary restaurants straight to your door. And they will ship it anywhere ev across the country for free in time for Father's Day.
- [48:34]
B
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- [49:57]
A
So if you're looking to make Father's Day perfect, and who isn't? You just want to impress your friends and family with an epic meal. Next time you host, go to goldbelly.com get free shipping and 20% off your first order with promo code CBP, that is Celtics Beat Podcast. CBP, that's goldbelly.com code CBP for free shipping and 20 off your first order. All right, let's talk about some more names and I do want your reactions to some of the, the many that Keith threw out there. But hey, let me give you one
- [50:32]
C
more because I forgot him.
- [50:33]
A
Okay.
- [50:34]
C
And also use Gold Belly when I'm gonna get. Use that to get my cookies.
- [50:38]
A
Hell yeah.
- [50:39]
C
John Collins. Keep in. John Collins, I think is a guy. Now, I, I am outside of the Collins family, maybe the biggest John Collins fan on the planet. But I think John Collins, he's not going to create the downhill, like driving actions to the basket like what you would get with Giannis. But very few guys are right. Just not something you get out of a lot of, A lot of bigs that can put the ball on the floor and get themselves to the hoop, but John Collins can play around the rim. He's an outstanding rebounder. He has played a lot at the five. And, and I think what you could do is this is where, right, we've gotten kind of used to this little bit of a smaller opening group, right? It's Keita Tatum Brown, Tatum and Brown have good size for wings, but you're a little smaller. And then you get into the backcourt, you could push everybody down. Right. And Collins could start at the four. And I think what you could do with him is he becomes a 4 and almost kind of your pseudo backup 5 at times when you want to play small because he did a lot of that with Atlanta. He's quite a bit of that with the Clippers. And he's a good shooter too. So he fits in with the pick and pop kind of game. The spot up game. He's another guy. I just, I was, I was running through my list, see if there's anybody I forgot. I want to make sure I mentioned him in, in the big grouping.
- [51:56]
A
Well, in terms of. Real quick, just to throw out another name then if I want your reactions to all these things. But Keith on. On this one first. One guy that. I don't think we've mentioned him here, but I know others have mentioned him written about him. You know, I have a group thread that is obsessed with this guy in the spirit of more scoring off the bench. You mentioned Anthony Simons, obviously. What about a Kobe White, for instance? What are the chances that the Celtics could lure him away from Charlotte?
- [52:24]
C
I think it's going to be a little too expensive. And I. Charlotte got him with the idea of Kobe White. Lamelo ball, Brandon Miller, Con Canepel. Now we have our perimeter rotation solved. I don't think Charlotte's gonna let him go unless it starts to become in the range of like boy, Boston's offering him 20 plus million a year using the TP and assign and trade, which then would create potential hard cap issues. But there's ways to get around all that stuff. But that's. That's that. That one feels a little less to me likely than. Than just saying I for similar type production and quite frankly probably a better pure scorer shooter. Give me Bamford Simons. Like I would rather go that direction. But yeah, if they ended up with Kobe White, I'm not going to kill him unless the contract is ridiculous. Like Kobe White's a really good player.
- [53:18]
B
Yeah, I'm not, I'm not too invested in the Kobe White scenario just because I just don't see it to be totally plausible. I just don't. I'm with Keith in this one. I don't think, given the way it went, I think Charlotte's very much invested in trying to run that back with another year under Khan's belt. And you have Brandon Miller, who is just another excellent Player who. I don't think he had a ton of shine because Khan was doing so many great things. But I'm like, Brandon Miller actually is kind of better than him. So I don't know.
- [53:45]
C
Yeah. Big time. Yeah. Huge season.
- [53:46]
B
He was unreal. He's. I again, I think they're going to try and keep that chip going in the same direction. And good for Charles Lee, who's. Who's done a really nice job so far in Charlotte. But I'll be honest, the names that we ran down, especially for the center position, like, did not get me excited until Keith started talking about John Collins, that I can, I can get behind. I can get behind. Like, I'm not, I'm not interested in doing a Brook Lopez thing. Really not quite there. Jock Landale, he had a nice season, but that's not really moving the needle for me. A lot of the guys, like, I'm, I'm very uninterested, like to the point of like apathetic. I'm not, I am not interested in running Vuchevic back at all whatsoever. I think we've seen what, what that is and you know, if you're trying to rack up regular season wins, that's great. But this is not an organization that's trying to win regular season games. I just don't. I'm not a big vouch guy at this point. John Collins, you could, you could talk me into very easily. Like Keith was just going through. I'm like, you know, I had not given that any thought and yet I think he solves a couple of their problems. One of the things that's interesting about the NBA now is I think we've gone a little bit in the direction from small ball. I think everybody's kind of huge.
- [54:55]
C
Yeah.
- [54:56]
B
At this point, like, if you look at. And I love the fact that Brad, I think, looks at the east and says, okay, who's our real big hurdle here? Well, the Knicks. The Knicks are huge. Outside of Jalen Brunson. Right. And Jalen's his own animal. You have OG and OBI of Mikhail Bridges, you have Mitchell Robinson. If he stays there, you have Carl Anthony Towns.
- [55:15]
A
That's a pretty big team.
- [55:17]
C
And Josh Hart plays bigger than he is.
- [55:20]
B
Oh, no question. And then every time that he plays the Celtics, he's actually a good three point shooter, which kills me every time you look at Detroit, Detroit's a really big team. And I know there's an Isaiah Stewart question come in there at some point, but like, that's a pretty big, pretty big team, pretty physical team. So you're going to want to match, have the ability at least to match that physicality if you need to go to it. I think John Collins does that at a reasonable level. At the same time, he can space the floor a little bit, which, you know, Joe's gonna want that option, that ability to do. That's why I'm not, I'm not unless. And I still, I still don't think Porzingis is over. Whatever ailment it was, was ailing him in the 2025 finals or the run to the 2025 playoffs. I mean, so I'm not interested in that. But John Collins at least gives you that safety valve. He's a little bit of a better rebounder than Porzingis was. He can guard a little bit better than Porzingis could. So in that respect, I think of all the guys and then if you're like, yeah, we're going to take Anthony Simons and John Collins. So now your, your bench makes a little bit more sense. I can, I can get behind that a little bit. I can, I can see the vision for that now. You know, hopefully with that, you know, the Peyton Pritchard, you know, Anthony Simons thing, that works itself out. You got a season to figure that out. I want to see more Ugo minutes because I think he can really impact the team. All the other guys like the, the Housers and the, in the, in the washers and I'm, I'm keeping Charman in this particular equation, by the way. I'm a big fireman guy. So, like, if you shuffle some of that around a little bit, I, I could be talking to the John Collins, Anthony Simons with this team. I could see that and, and be totally content with that going into 2026, no question.
- [57:02]
C
Yeah, I think with Sam Houser too, I'm glad you mentioned him. I think there's a chance he's moved. I think that's a good chance. Yeah, I think there's a, that is the move to just rebalance the books a little, give you a little bit more wiggle room in some of these. Like if you're making a trade for a guy who makes 25 million, maybe houser goes out now. Now it's like you Only traded for 15 million in salary with that. I think with Hauser, it's funny because. Right, Tim Hauser, 40% three point shooter. But what's happened over the last couple of years, that 40% is coming from like 4 for 4, one night, 0 for 6, the next. And it's starting to become not a consistent every. Right when he kind of grew into being what he was. And like, in the title year, Sam Houser was good for two three pointers a night. Right. And you just like. So I'm going to probably shoot four times. They're going to all be threes, but he's going to make damn near half of them, and we're going to be good to go. And. And I think he's on a good contract. Teams are always looking for a shooter with size. I think there's a way they can move that. And then that also has the natural effect of Shireman. Hugo, Jordan, Walsh, those are. That's Howser. You know, he's a 25 to 30 minute a night. You know, minutes either in the regular season. Those all go to other guys, whoever they draft, you know, in this year's draft. Right. Like, those. Those guys will all just. Now there's more minutes for all those guys. So that's. I. I think we've kind of probably run to the end of the Hauser
- [58:31]
A
experience there, which, again, no knock on him. Good dude.
- [58:35]
C
Yeah.
- [58:36]
A
Again, seems like he's been surpassed by Shireman in terms of ability, rotation, and just the fact that, yeah, at about $11 million, there are just better ways to use that money, so.
- [58:48]
C
And it will be nights. There's shooting. Yeah, there will be nights where they're like, man, I just. You know, I wish we still had Hauser. Right. But, like, more often than not, you're gonna be like, all right, if Hugo shot comes along and a couple more of those shots go to Pritchard or Charman. Charman. That. The weirdest shot in the league to me right now is that shot Charman takes going left to right where he lifts out of the corner. Three. Right to take me above the break. Three. But it feels like he goes 80% of the time.
- [59:18]
B
Time.
- [59:18]
C
Like what? Lefty shoots. Going to their right, coming out of the corner, which should be an easier shot, but it goes in a lot. So I'm like, hey, hey, whatever works. And you have the. The other thing with Shireman, you do a lot more. And all of. All of those guys are better defenders than Hauser is. And Hauser's not a. Not as bad a defender as. Right. People are like, up. White guys on the floor. Go attack him right in the. And everybody says it and everybody knows it, but it's like Hauser actually holds up. But all those guys are better defenders than Sam Houser is.
- [59:48]
A
So we've been Talking for about an hour. I don't want to go too much longer. I realize people have things to do and attention spans, quite frankly among viewers and listeners. But let's tear this a little bit. Are you of the mind, both of you, but Keith, namely you being the cap guy here. Are you of the mind that the most realistic situation, most likely situation is that yeah, there'll be moves around the fringes. We know that. But in terms of their most notable significant pieces, that's. Let's just call it Tatum, Brown, White, Pritchard, you know, those four. All of those guys are back or do you think there's going to be a noteworthy move?
- [60:29]
C
I think it is more likely than not that they. Those four guys are all back in. The way the team makes their moves is through the mid level exception and through the trade exception. I will say within that I do think we are closer than we have ever been to potentially seeing Jalen Brown be traded. I don't think we are there, but I think we are closer than we have ever been at any point in his. Outside of the very early years when I was like, oh, can we get Kawhi or Paul like that was since he's become all star level Jalen Brown, I think this is as close as we have ever been Band.
- [61:05]
A
So if we do believe then that it's because I agree with you that it's more likely than not that those four guys are back and they operate through again the mid level and the tpe. How many of those guys are we talking? Two guys. How. How many guys meaningful additions can you make using that money available?
- [61:23]
C
Yeah, I think what they can do one, two. We gotta just recognize they're not an abundance of roster spots. Spots open in Boston either. Unless you really start moving on from guys like they've got. I mean basically I'm already gutted them accounted for like 13 roster spots with all the guys I think they'll keep on the team options guaranteed. And the draft pick.
- [61:45]
A
Well, without. Without Vuch, they're locked in right now to 14 guys. But that being said, you can trade Hauser, you can move on for, you know, declined team options.
- [61:55]
C
Yeah, I think Shulga and Banton, that's not gonna.
- [61:58]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [61:59]
C
So I think what you are more. I think it's probably two players and then maybe if there's. I know you guys weren't super enthused about it, but let's just say the Clippers do cut Brook Lopez loose and he's just floating around. He's like, I still Want to play and I'll take a minimum with Boston. Sure. Right. Like for a minimum. Who, I mean, at that point, who cares? Right. And unless you're running into like this year where it's, we got to manage by the day to fit the salaries in under, you know, the tax or whatever. One thing that will happen if they do a big enough trade using the trade exception or use the mle, they will hard cap themselves at the first apron. I don't think that's a huge concern because they're not going to go much beyond that anyway because they're not going over the second. April, they did not do everything they did to then go right back over the second and the tax. Maybe that one. I don't, I don't know that we have a great read yet on how important that one is. But yeah, I think they're in position to make a couple of moves, add a couple real impact pieces. I think one will be in the front court, think one will be in the back court and then we kind of, kind of go forward from there. But I think it's going to be guys that we're sitting here. It's, it's not, I mean in this free agent class is not like loaded with superstar free agents. So this isn't going to happen for anybody. But it's not. I don't know that people are going to rush to the team shop or rush to online to order the jersey of whoever it is that they're getting. But I think when we look at it, we're gonna like. Yeah, that makes sense. Like those guys are, are pretty good. It's going to be someone to compliment and compete with. Keita, either Kato will be the starter or he will be a super high end backup in the league. If somebody better than him comes in and then I think you just, you got to get one more ball handler because outside of Jason Tatum, the team had pretty good injury luck last year. They didn't have a lot of people miss kind of significant time and it just. As the roster ages, you got to be, you got to be. At some point Derrick White's going to have a season where he misses like 25 games. Right. Like you just, I mean, I don't know, maybe, maybe he will just be, you know, more or less an ironman and today's standards and never miss tie. But yeah, that. And I will say this, it's just in the back of my mind slightly there's the right big like blockbuster move to be made. Maybe Derrick White does move. I Mean, he had a really disappointing season last year, shooting wise, scoring wise. We now should all know, as much as we love Derrick White, he's your second best option on offense. You're probably fairly limited on things. You got to really kind of. Yo, he should be your third, fourth. If he's your fifth, you're probably awesome. So, so I think that's just other things. So keep, keep in mind a little bit there. But, but yeah, I think it's going to be one, one big addition in the front court, one probably pretty big addition in the backcourt, and then, then the rest will be fill out. However you fill out draft and, you know, whatever else.
- [65:04]
B
Yeah, I mean, I, I don't know if you've looked at it. Kaufman, who they brought in, the Celtics, brought in for workouts, but one name didn't really catch my eye. They brought in Storyakovich's kid.
- [65:18]
A
The only person that we saw more during those broadcasts during the tournament than Stojakovic's kid was Stojakovic.
- [65:24]
B
Yeah, it's the best. I, I, as someone who loved the era of Kings basketball, I would literally die to have to have Pages get on the team because. Just, just good vibes. But I mean, I, I think Keith's got it, got it pretty well figured out here. I think, you know, there's not a ton of names out there, but, you know, Boston's going to be involved in a lot of things. Cobman, you and I speak extremely glowingly of this subject's front office. Between Brad and Zarin and the rest of the crew. I think they have a good handle on what this team is. I think Brad specifically, he's got a great handle on what they need and they'll work on some things and get some things done. But I, again, the one thing that we've all come away from is there's going to be some, some changes coming and it might be, you know, might be a Jalen trade, it might be a Derek White trade, but they, they know they need to upgrade significantly in certain areas and, and it's, there's going to be a little different vibe going into next year for sure.
- [66:17]
C
Yeah, without a doubt.
- [66:19]
A
Keith, before we go, what is your financially plausible but kind of nuclear option? What is something that you think the Celtics could. Because all this conversation that we have, the royal we among how wide open the east is like what, what we've outlined. Yeah, you're talking about a, A more improved team. I, I get it. I don't disagree. And you know, some of my judgment is clouded by blowing 3 1, the playoff loss and Tatum not being quite right yet, not having him there for game seven and all of this stuff. I just wonder if what you outlined does make you a contender again. I mean, it may make you among the best in the East. They should be that anyway. So fine. But are you on the level of okc? Are you on the level of San Antonio? What, you know, what actually jumps them up from where they need to be?
- [67:12]
C
Yeah, just making moves that are adding like front court reinforcements, backcourt reinforcements. You can probably win the east with that. East is going to be a lot better next year. Like Indiana is going to be back. I know they lost their pick, but they've got Zubach, Halliburton, Siakam. Like that's a good deep team. The Knicks aren't. I mean, unless the Knicks completely fall apart in the east finals, I don't think they're going to. They're going to be back. Cleveland's probably going to look a little different, but they're going to be back. Orlando should be better than what they were. I don't think the east is going to be. And I'm leaving teams out, but I don't think the east is just going to be. Show up and, you know, roll the ball and you win the conference.
- [67:54]
A
Sure.
- [67:56]
C
But I think, yeah, if they want to be on the OKC San Antonio level of contenders, which I think those teams aren't, certainly aren't going anywhere. That is the bigger, like that's Jalen Brown for Giannis and you know, hope Giannis has, you know, another couple really good seasons, you know, like superstar level seasons in him. And that's. That. That's probably the, the big thing. And then I think what. I think we're at the point where too, if it's not this year doing something huge or finding like they did a couple seasons ago, finding the right mix around Tatum and Brown. I think when we're having this conversation next summer, it's going to be all right, now Jalen Brown is in position really, hey, extend me or like now we're going to get in a problem areas.
- [68:44]
A
Right.
- [68:44]
C
And then that's going to be where do we go. Tatum will only have a couple of years left. We're going to be having real conversations about, all right, how do you avoid the cliff of you fell all the way off because those guys have aged out or they've moved on it now you're looking at a really severe rebuild and then you just kind of go forward from there. But yeah, I think it's coming within the next couple years. The big, big move. And it wouldn't shock me if it was this summer. I just have said it at the beginning. Brad tells us a lot of stuff without telling us his exact plan. And I read that entire presser that he gave as. Look, I'm proud of the fact that we didn't do the gap year thing and we're not in the lottery and all that stuff, but I think for him, it was, we aren't good enough. We blew a 3:1 lead, which proves we're not good enough. And he is not content with not being good enough. And I think, you know, I'll also just end with this. I know we're not spending a lot of time on it. They don't. If they aren't better. And by better, I mean, like, better in that they are in at least the conference finals or pushing for the finals. I think Joe Missoula's done because I think they'll. They'll do the ball right. We got to make a change there because that's always easier, right, than doing that. Especially if it is go out the same kind of way, you know, without. And then people pick on him too much, say, makes no adjustments. That's stupid. He makes a ton of adjustments and changes things, and then you got all kinds of adjustments that were like, let's roll out the craziest game seven lineup I've ever seen, which was too much the other way. But I do think. I think if they don't get it right this summer and really are in a good place, next summer is going to be a summer of monster changes across the organization.
- [70:35]
A
And in 60 seconds, can we all agree that LeBron is not freaking coming here? Can people stop talking about this, please?
- [70:43]
B
I'm begging you.
- [70:44]
A
This isn't even about do you want them or not want them. It's not happening. Especially for like 5 effing million dollars or whatever people are talking about.
- [70:54]
C
There's almost nothing more than them signing me to a contract that would surprise me more than LeBron. Like, yeah, that's not. That's not. I. I think. I think LeBron. I think Dave LeBron would consider playing for 29 teams, then consider retirement, then consider playing overseas somewhere, then maybe think about coming to the Celtics. I think that would probably be the order priority.
- [71:18]
A
It's insane. I can't believe people are. Are spending real air time on that conversation.
- [71:24]
C
Somebody fired up 2k and had a little bit of fun, I think, is what happens there.
- [71:29]
B
All right. Keith.
- [71:30]
A
Well, we've made strides and something tells me we'll be bugging you again this off season to continue this conversation, especially as we get closer to free agency. We are only in mid May. I hate that we're not still talking about Celtics active basketball, but yeah, it's future planning these days. Go Spurs. Go Spurs. Pistons. That's the matchup that I want in the NBA Finals. We'll see if we get there. But we want to thank you, of course, for tuning in. As always, before we, before we vanish
- [72:00]
B
here, I do want to thank the. The comments section lately has been absolutely lit.
- [72:04]
A
Ah, yes, that's right.
- [72:06]
B
But I do want to thank a very specific person. I want to shout out Heisenberg 2966, who on last week's show made me absolutely like cry, laughing so hard with the comment quote, evan Valenti does not belong in this podcast. He belongs in Hollywood. Valenti could be typecasted as a smooth dressing villain who runs a brokerage firm by day and a criminal organization by night. Valenti is a. Is cool with a hint of badass. And I guess my only question is, am I more like the Brad Wesley from Roadhouse type of evil villain from the 80s or am I like the, the Tony Montana Scarface with a pile of cocaine in front of my desk level of, of villain? I, I'm taking, taking calls and taking requests on that because I thought that was one of the best comments of my life. So thank you very much.
- [72:54]
A
It's tough when we go down the, the like so. And so as a villain role, I think they, they nailed you perfectly.
- [73:01]
B
The.
- [73:01]
A
Yeah, I'm, I guess I need a little introspection because I've had a few too many people tell me over the years that they think of Christian Bale in American Psycho and I'm a tough one. That's a tough one to have to endure.
- [73:18]
B
Sociopath. I think I need to look in
- [73:20]
A
the mirror a little bit, have some conversations.
- [73:23]
B
Oh my God.
- [73:25]
C
You know what, kid? Here's what I'll give you. It reminds me of it's 80s, but I think it was 90s. Gone in 60 seconds. Yeah, he just makes furniture, but then is like this ruthless. That, that, that, that's who it reminds me of. You're just back there crafting. Yeah. Yeah. But you're, you're just making some nice chairs and, and then also running, you know, you, you need, you know, million dollar cars as well.
- [73:52]
B
Yeah.
- [73:53]
C
For you. So.
- [73:54]
B
Yeah, I like that. I like that. I, I'm glad nobody went like I forget what his name is in the, in the movie. But the bad guy from robocop that runs. Oh, God, yeah. What? That runs the. The corporation there. I forget who that guy is. Think of it. Either it's the same guy who's the bad guy in Total Recall. So it's like very, very like on brand.
- [74:14]
C
I love it.
- [74:15]
B
But yeah, keep more, more suggestions coming on what evil villain I am from what 80s movie. Because like that, do that, do that.
- [74:23]
A
I mean, you could say whatever you want in the comment section. We read it, we react sometimes. We certainly bring some of them to air. We do enjoy it. We do not take it personally when you guys dump all over us. And I'm sure there will be plenty of Kaufman hates Jalen Brown stuff after this episode, even though I said I don't want to trade him. Maybe pay attention to that along the way. But you can dump on us all you want, but it's always better. It's more fun when it's funny. Like what you gave ev there with the villain stuff.
- [74:48]
B
Hans Gruber, maybe from Die Hard. You know, I can see Hans Gruber. I'm wearing like a four coat, nice tie. I got the beard going.
- [74:54]
A
I can do that now.
- [74:55]
B
You're Rip Alan Rickman, man.
- [74:57]
A
The best. True. All right. Our thanks to people for tuning in as always to Celtics be. Check out the CLNS YouTube all access page for videos of this show and many others across the Celtics podcast network. And beyond that, of course, wherever you get your podcast, the audio versions, you can find us. Just search Celtics beat rate review. Most importantly though, do subscribe Keith Smith. Keith Smith, NBA on Twitter from Spot Track and the Front Office show with Trevor Lane. Keith, we always enjoyed the time. Enjoy the, as Joe would say, the duality of what remains here as you enter the summer. Enjoying playoff basketball while readying yourself for the draft and free agency.
- [75:38]
C
I appreciate it. Thanks so much for having me.
- [75:40]
A
Absolutely. For Keith forever. And I am Adam. We'll talk to you again next time.