677: Should Celtics Build a Team to Beat the Spurs?

Summary

Celtics Beat, Episode 677: Should Celtics Build a Team to Beat the Spurs?

Date: May 23, 2026
Hosts: Adam Kaufman & Evan Valenti

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Adam Kaufman and Evan Valenti discuss the central offseason question facing the Boston Celtics: Should the team construct its roster with the priority of surpassing Eastern rivals like the Knicks—or should they focus on matching up with the new NBA juggernauts out west, particularly the Thunder and the Spurs (built around Victor Wembanyama)? The hosts analyze the successes and failures of the Celtics' 2025–26 campaign, weigh whether the season itself was a disappointment, and dig into the looming Giannis Antetokounmpo sweepstakes. They also engage in a compelling debate about the "Jays" (Tatum and Brown), team-building philosophy, and what real championship windows look like in today's NBA.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Reflections on the Celtics' 2025–26 Season [05:31–14:51]

• Was the Celtics’ Season a Failure or Success?

  • Evan frames questions about missed opportunities, given Celtics’ early playoff exit and the "wide open" status of the East.
  • Adam’s Take: “The Celtics season was not a failure. The Celtics season was an overwhelming success. The series was a failure. The playoff outcome was a failure.” [08:08]
  • Adam argues expectations changed and the C’s outperformed regular-season projections, winning 56 games when few foresaw that level.
  • The main culprit for playoff collapse: shooting variance—when the Celtics’ three-point shooting disappeared, their margin evaporated.
  • “They didn’t lose to a better opponent. I still firmly believe Boston is better than Philadelphia.” [09:12]

• Knicks, Cavs, Sixers: How Good Are They Really?

  • Both agree the East isn't stacked with powerhouses.
  • Adam: "The Cavs are the ones... that are reasonably fraudulent.” [12:03]

• The Reality Check: Western Powers

  • Adam stresses that the current Spurs and Thunder are operating on another level: “They would destroy the Celtics in the NBA Finals. They just would.” [13:25]
  • He suggests Boston’s playoff ceiling was realistically capped anyway.

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2. Team-Building Philosophy: Who Are You Trying to Beat? [14:51–19:36]

• East or West: Where is the Target?
  • Evan asks, “Are you chasing the Knicks, or are you chasing Wemby, the Spurs, or the Thunder out west?” [14:51]
  • Drawing an analogy to the NFL's Buffalo Bills vs. Chiefs, Adam asks:
    “Are the Celtics trying to take down the east, just, just be measurably better… or are you just trying to get to the top of the mountain and beat the cream of the crop in the NBA?” [18:00]
  • Evan notes that while the Knicks have been built to contain Boston’s stars (“the Jays”), the Spurs and Thunder are so loaded with top-tier young talent (Wembanyama, Harper, Castle, Fox, etc.) that the game board may have shifted entirely.

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3. The Victor Wembanyama Problem [21:37–24:26]

• The hosts marvel at what Wemby is already doing at 22—an all-time outlier who forces teams to totally reconsider roster construction.
• Evan reflects: “This guy is unbelievable…That’s pretty tough. Do you have to get desperate and get a Giannis?”
• Adam: “It’s not just Wemby; it’s Fox, it’s Castle, it’s Harper, it’s Fascel. Like, the spurs are effing loaded.” [22:44]

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4. Should the Celtics Make a Giannis Push? [24:26–31:33]

• Would You Break Up the Jays for Giannis?

  • Adam: “I don’t want to split up the Jays...But do you believe, purely for basketball reasons, that Giannis and Tatum is just too compelling a fit to overlook?” [24:48]
  • Both hosts agree: Giannis is the superior player, with an invaluable skill set, and pairing him with Tatum is incredibly compelling if it can be done without mortgaging all depth or overcommitting to aging/injury-risk cores.

• Sacrifice and the Window

  • Adam asks whether the Celtics should opt for a “shorter, sharper” championship window with Tatum + Giannis, or “trust Brad and Zarin...to build around the fringes” and stretch out contention with marginal moves. [26:08]
  • Evan points out that star consolidation brings salary cap and depth risks, but acknowledges, “Players of Giannis’s caliber just don’t shake off the tree too often.” [27:40]
  • The idea of “another KG/Ray/Pierce all-in push” is floated, with all the risk and reward that entails.

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5. The Jays: Are We Still Rising? [31:33–36:17]

• Adam asks outright if Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown are still improving as players.
  • Evan: “Absolutely [for both].”
  • Adam disagrees for Brown: “…what we may have just seen from Jaylen Brown is his ceiling, which is not a bad, low ceiling. He’ll be all NBA...I guess I’m wondering what’s left for him to get better at.” [32:13]
  • Evan defends Brown’s game evolution in Tatum’s absence.
  • Adam: “Jalen has a higher ceiling than where he is at, but it’s not next to Jason Tatum.” [33:19]
  • Both wonder if sacrifice between the Jays inevitably caps their development and team ceiling as constructed.

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6. Rumor Mill: Jaylen’s Status and Locker Room Dynamics [36:17–38:22]

• The “perk text” drama—Perkins claims former Celtics say the locker room isn’t behind Jalen—comes up. Both hosts dismiss or downplay the specifics, but note if Jalen wants out, it makes the Giannis question moot.

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7. Team-Building by the Margins, or Star Aggregation? [38:22–47:46]

• If the Celtics go all-in for Giannis, who else can be kept? Is it better to deal Brown or White as the centerpiece?
  • Evan: “...if you had those three guys,” (Tatum, Brown, Giannis), “...you’re not looking at anybody else, right?...Even the spurs are like, boy, we gotta play those three guys for seven games.” [42:36]
  • Adam on Derek White vs. Jaylen Brown in a Giannis scenario: “White does most other things better than Jaylen, including defense...financially easier, too.” [45:56]

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8. Where Should Giannis Actually Go? [50:12–57:51]

• Wildcard destinations discussed, with fun trade packages.
  • Evan suggests Charlotte as a dark horse (LaMelo+Bridges/picks for Giannis). [50:12]
  • Adam is skeptical, noting player agency nearly always tips deals toward “contender and market appeal.”
  • Cleveland also gets play as a sleeper—Giannis could turn the oft-derided Cavs into “a true viable contender in the Eastern Conference.” [54:23]

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Notable Quotes & Stampworthy Moments

• “The Celtics season was not a failure...The series was a failure. The playoff outcome was a failure.” – Adam Kaufman [08:08]
• “Do you try and build a team to beat the Spurs...I’m not quite sure how you’re going to do that...this guy is unbelievable.” – Evan Valenti on Wemby [21:37]
• “I don’t want to split up the Jays...But do you believe...that Giannis and Tatum is just too compelling a fit to overlook?” – Adam Kaufman [24:48]
• “Players of Giannis’s caliber just don’t, don’t shake off the tree too often.” – Evan Valenti [27:40]
• “Jaylen has a higher ceiling than where he is at, but it’s not next to Jason Tatum.” – Adam Kaufman [33:19]
• “If you had those three guys [Tatum, Brown, Giannis], everyone’s looking at you...even the Spurs are like, boy, we gotta play those three guys for seven games.” – Evan Valenti [42:36]
• “Cleveland becomes a team...that is a true viable contender in the Eastern Conference...Giannis makes that team.” – Adam Kaufman [54:23]

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Important Segment Timestamps

• Reflections on the Season / Playoff Exit: 05:31–14:51
• Roster Target: East vs. West Powers: 14:51–19:36
• How to Build for Wemby and the Spurs: 21:37–24:26
• Giannis Hypotheticals and the Jays' Future: 24:26–36:17
• Locker Room Drama & Jaylen’s Role: 36:17–38:22
• Depth, Cap, and Team Construction: 38:22–47:46
• Where Should Giannis Go? (East Darkhorses): 50:12–57:51

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Tone & Style

The episode is candid, analytic, and peppered with light humor and banter. Both hosts voice opinions from a pragmatic, sometimes emotionally invested Celtics fandom, balancing “what-if” speculation with clear-eyed realism about star power, salary cap, and the sharp teeth of the new Western Conference elite.

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Summary

For Celtics fans contemplating the direction of the team amid shifting NBA tectonics, this episode is essential listening. Adam and Evan dissect the heartbreak and hope of Boston’s latest campaign, the existential threat of Wembanyama’s Spurs, and the promise—and peril—of seizing a generational superstar like Giannis. The show poses, but doesn't resolve, the core dilemma: Should the Celtics try to build to win the East or to overcome the league’s new apex predators either way? The team’s blueprint for the late 2020s will turn on how they answer that challenge.

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For more Celtics Beat, subscribe anywhere you get your podcasts or watch the full video on the CLNS YouTube channel.

Transcript

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[Adam Kaufman]

Today, Saturday, May 23rd and this is Celtics Beat on CLNS Media, the leading online provider of audio video coverage of the Boston Celtics. I'm Adam Kaufman. Episode 677 features just the two of us.

[Evan Valenti]

Ev yeah buddy. I'm Evan Valenti and today's show is powered by Prize Picks and Rocket Money. Prize Picks is the official daily fantasy partner of CLNS Media. Download the app today, Use the promo code CLNS to get $50 in lineups when you play. $5 and sign up for Rocket Money today at Rocket Money.com CBP.

[Adam Kaufman]

Hey everybody. Welcome in new edition of Celtics Beat as we take you near not quite at, but near the end of May. That means June right around the corner. And of course the draft will be approaching and we will have free agency approaching. Before you know it, you'll blink. It'll be summer league and oh my goodness, guess what? It's training camp and media day. The season will be here. What are the Celtics going to look like? That has obviously been the theme of late here on this show. It's what everybody is talking about locally, nationally. You're your text threads, your friend group, maybe your family. It's what we're going to continue to talk about, honestly, so we get a little bit of clarity. Adam E.B. just the two of us. Spoiler alert. I was not just omitting my last name, Kaufman, by coughing and trying to give you some sort of a signal there. I'm dealing with the flu, which is fine. Don't feel bad for me. That's not the point. I'm just telling you that because you will know that I'm going to periodically annoy you by coughing at you during this show. Maybe you get to watch it on the CLNS YouTube page, the all access page where you can find all of our shows each and every week and so many other great Celtics programs across the network. Or in this particular case, if you wanted to avoid actually seeing me hacking up a lung, you can just rate, review, subscribe and listen to the Celtics Speed audio version wherever you get your podcast. EV Playoffs down to the Final Four. We of course have what I feel like is already a done Eastern Conference final. I think the Knicks are going to walk all over the Cavs and we can expand upon that a little bit later on. I will full disclosure, tell people that even though the show is being released on a Saturday, we're having this conversation on a Friday. So right now it is 1:1 as we sit here between the spurs and the Thunder. So we're not going to talk about a lot about that series given the Game three will already have been played. But I think we should all expect if the first two games are any indication, this is going to be a war between these two teams and we'll see how many guys physically are left standing at the end. That might be the best chance the Knicks possibly have to win a championship against one of these two. Is just hoping they continue to beat the absolute tar out of each other during a six or seven game set. And it feels like between Harper and obviously Williams and God, I mean everybody.

[Evan Valenti]

AJ Mitchell went down dear and Fox has been hurt.

[Adam Kaufman]

Fox hasn't even played yet as we sit here. Yeah, I mean it's that's the direction things are headed but how you doing buddy? I've been talking, talking, talking.

[Evan Valenti]

I'm doing well. Things are good. I'm just gonna. I just want to shout out you're wearing an actual shirt today. That's fantastic.

[Adam Kaufman]

Good to see you wear a shirt.

[Evan Valenti]

You buttons on your shirt.

[Adam Kaufman]

Such a men's clothing snob that if I'm wearing a T shirt that's not a Real shirt. It has to have a collar.

[Evan Valenti]

Yeah. I'm calling you out. It's just about time that you match, match the occasion. That's all.

[Adam Kaufman]

All right.

[Evan Valenti]

But it's really interesting because, you know, you were talking there and I was thinking about what I would say for my next point, but I do want to revert back to you said about the Knicks and how they're sitting there watching the Thunder and the spurs beat the absolute tar out of each other, and you're sitting there saying, they're probably loving this, right?

[Adam Kaufman]

Yeah.

[Evan Valenti]

To make this sort of Celtics related, because that's the name of the show. It's Celtics feet now. As the year went on, I think the goal posts moved, our expectations changed, and when the Celtics started the playoffs, you and I very optimistic about. About what we saw in the regular season, how it would translate to the postseason didn't go well. Obviously, we're sitting here talking about an off season, and there are four teams still playing, so it's not being one of them. Do you view that now that. Now that you said, hey, the Knicks are sitting there thinking, hey, maybe we got a real shot at this. And I've talked to Knicks fans that past couple of days. They're having the same thought or conversation. You just said, hey, by the time all we got to do is beat this Cavs team, get to the finals, and we're going to face Oklahoma City or. Or a Spurs team that's beat up. That's what they're thinking. So with that in mind, are we still allowing the. The 2026 season was a failure because the Celtics didn't get to, you know, the. The conference finals or the. Or the semifinals or the finals because of the opportunity that would be ahead of them. Like, this Cleveland team is. Nah, they're all right. Okay. That Sixers team that. That you got beat by, you should have beaten eventually wasn't all that great. This Knicks team hasn't really played an amazing team. They played a Hawks team that was fun. J.J. mcCollum got hot for a while. Then they played a Philadelphia 76ers team that they were way better than. They outclassed they were. They just a way better roster, no question. And they have this casting that, like, look, okay, if Streuss goes off, if Dean Wade goes off and Sam Merrill and a little more Donovan Mitchell, like, yeah, they might win a game, but the Knicks are a better team than them. Do we look at this. Because we have to look at this with Ses lens and say, like, you're going to look at 20, 26. Yeah, we know Tatum was hurt. We got that. But he came back and looked great.

[Adam Kaufman]

Right?

[Evan Valenti]

Is it a missed opportunity for Boston, or was this like, hey, Valenti, relax. Tatum tore his acl. This season was a, a complete bonus Stark. Yeah. What did I say?

[Adam Kaufman]

Torn acl.

[Evan Valenti]

Oh, that's. Yeah, you're right. Ruptured Achilles. They made the playoffs. They had a great season. They. The playoffs. They got their doors kicked in. You, you got to settle down because I'm sitting here, you say that. I'm like, man, if they had just gotten their act together and Joe Maula and everybody got their head out of their ass for a while, they could be the Knicks saying the same exact thing, like, hey, we just gotta make it there and you're gonna have a banged up team on the other side.

[Adam Kaufman]

So I, I think I've been consistent holding my ground on this one. By all means. I'm sure people in the YouTube chat will tell me otherwise if I haven't. And, and I welcome that, by the way. But I think I've been consistent about this. The Celtics season was not a failure. The Celtics season was an overwhelming success. The series was a failure. The playoff outcome was a failure. The season, however, let's not forget, most people and I know we moved the goal posts along the way. That's what happens when good things happen. But most people at the start of the year didn't think that team would be any more than a team that loses in the first round of the playoffs. That was pretty much the ceiling most people had. I think that was probably ceiling. That the two of us had a competitive first round series. That you probably lose to a better opponent is your ceiling. The problem with what I just said was they didn't lose to a better opponent. I still firmly believe Boston is better than Philadelphia. Unfortunately, what bit them in that series and has now bitten them in multiple series during premature playoff exits in recent years is shooting variants. They very specifically elect and know how to play a certain way. And when the threes are falling, they will embarrass you. And when they are not, things tend to go the other way. And most of that series against Philadelphia, the shots weren't falling. So you can point to Tatum not being available in game seven if you want. I don't, I don't use that as some sort of an excuse. They shot like shit most of that series. That's why Brad Stevens, in part didn't sound all up in arms talking with the media after the season, because he knows, as we've talked about on this show, that they wildly overachieved in the regular season. They won 56 games. Nobody saw that happening. Nobody, nobody on their best day in the front office said Boston is a 56 win team. We were saying 45 to 50, best case scenario, not 56, no way in hell. And there were some people thought they'd win 25 or 30. So Boston had a very.

[Evan Valenti]

You were after that Wizards game where or in the middle of that Wizards game was like, this is going to be the most. Most.

[Adam Kaufman]

I was texting you during it. I was like, if they lose this game, I'm out. Like, that was, that was the line of demarcation on the season. And after the way they had lost to Utah, if they lost that next game to Washington, I was done. I was out. I was rooting for AJ debonza the whole rest of the way. But of course they won. Stupid little meaningless game, but nevertheless wildly entertaining regular season. But the problem was, and we've hashed this out already, so I won't go on and on, but they enter the playoffs as the betting favorite, overwhelming betting favorite to come out of the east to reach the NBA Finals. And so you can play the game that you outlined of what if they were in the next spot right now? And how would we feel about this potential NBA Finals and Boston's presumed, who the hell knows? Health and excuse me what that looks like on the other side. But the whole thing I kept thinking to myself as you were talking and sort of outlining this scenario was I don't think they beat the Knicks anyway. E. Even if they had gotten past Philadelphia as they should have, that was a meltdown. They were up 3:1. That's inexcusable. That is a disaster. Should have been in round two at the very least. But watching what the Knicks have done, even if you want to say Hawks not that good. Sixers not that good. I'll grant you that. The way the Knicks are playing, however, yeah, Boston wouldn't have won that series. I just don't believe it. I, I, you know, the Knicks, this is, these are not. And, and look, I love the guy and I've praised him I don't know how many times on this show over the years. But these are not Tibbs Nicks. They played, they play differently. They have different, different styles. They have alternative ways to beat you. They have, they have incredible depth. They, as we saw in Game 1 against Cleveland, also have the ability to get insanely hot from three even when they're having a poor shooting night. I mean, they shot this. This is the thing that kind of gets lost. This is not a Knicks podcast all of a sudden. But the Knicks had a terrible shooting night from three. They shot like 30% for that game, but they couldn't miss in the final seven minutes of regulation. Force overtime and they win. The Cavs are the ones, to me, and I've been saying this for quite a while, that are reasonably fraudulent. Now, that doesn't mean Cleveland couldn't have beaten Boston. I think, again, this speaks to where Boston was as a roster. This is why we're having all these conversations. The Celtics have a lot of holes on their roster and quite frankly. And we'll see about the Knicks again, assuming they're in the NBA finals. And I think they will be. I felt they would be going into the series. I certainly felt they would be going out of game one. And now after, you know, being up 2, 0 and a couple of lopsided wins, I really believe it. But I still think the other two, the other teams in the west, like we've texted about this constantly, they are just playing a whole different sport. Yeah, the, the Thunder and, and the spurs are like, say what you want about the style in which the Thunder play and the foul baiting and SGA flopping and falling all over the floor and that stuff, but the talent on those two teams is unimpeachable. They would destroy the Celtics in the NBA Finals. They just would. You can give me the best of seven. Anything can happen. What if somebody gets hurt? Okay, fine, like, all plausible, but those two teams are so head and shoulders above anybody else in the league right now, that one, I don't think the Celtics would have gotten there in the first place because they probably go down in round two regardless. But independent of that, even if they get by the Knicks and they get by the Cavs and they get to the NBA Finals, we'd all be ecstatic. The Celtics are still playing, but we'd be waiting for them to get gentlemen swept. Yeah.

[Evan Valenti]

And it's interesting as you sit here to think about when Boston's trying to build their roster for 2026, 2027, are you chasing the Knicks or are you chasing Wemby, the Spurs or the Thunder out west? Or are you trying to build a team to beat those teams? And we'll get to that after this quick break for our friends over at Price Picks.

[Adam Kaufman]

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[Evan Valenti]

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[Adam Kaufman]

What do we got?

[Evan Valenti]

We have my picks for this week. Adam. I'm not gonna lie buddy. I would be transparent. Our audience here. Adam's at the flu this week so we've been giving him a little time off. He's also being a nice guy. What's up?

[Adam Kaufman]

I've been in bed, lot of time in bed.

[Evan Valenti]

But he's also doing me a solid because Adam skunked me last week and he's giving me the opportunity at a mulligan here to catch up to him. I went over last week and Adam kicked, kicked my ass. He went 2 for 3. So he's currently leading in that particular pool. And he's let me get caught up because he knows I'm only in two out of three. So the worst coffin comes out of his thing. Time. So for our our prize picks line up for Saturday night Knicks and Cavs go to Mitchell Robinson more than two and a half rebounds going to Donovan. Mitchell, less than 27 and a half points. He actually hasn't hit that number in the four last five games. Just want to point that out. And then we're going Evan Mobley who has had an up and down series but it's only been two games going more than eight and a half rebounds. That's where I think Cleveland, if they're gonna win this game, that's a control of the glass. And I think with Mobley and Allen they have a better shot at it if I hit all 3. Of course at 3x my money I hit 2 out of 3 get most of my money back. 0.75 of it or 75 of it. So look, I call that a win. If I don't lose everything, that's a win in as little as 15 minutes. I can watch that money roll right into my account. I use Venmo super easy, but use whatever you want to use. And if your app's on fire, off to a great start. Look for that cash out option. I don't get it often. It's only happened to me once, but it could happen to you at any point, so make sure you stay tuned for that.

[Adam Kaufman]

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[Evan Valenti]

Well, that analogy with football is very. It's a good one, right? And you look at the Knicks team right now, unlike, and I know Philly beat Boston this year. I totally understand that. But Philly has watched Boston beat them for, like, nine years without a way to settle Jalen and Jason down a little bit. Right off. I've always said that. The Knicks, on the other hand, they built a team with two guys in OG And Mikhail Bridges, theoretically, that could attempt to stop the Jays. And they did. They did. They stopped the Celtics last year. They beat them. They beat him in their own house. I was there for game one. It was not fun. So as you look to build this team, build the Celtics, are you trying to build a team that's built to beat the Knicks? Are you trying to be. Build a team that's built to be, let's say the Pacers, who are going to have Tyrese Halberton back next year with Pascal Siakam and Zubot and everything that they have, they bring to the table. Are you looking to do that or, you know, do you try and build a team to beat the Spurs? Because, you know, Victor Wembanyama isn't going anywhere. You know, Dylan Harper isn't going anywhere. You know, Stefan Castle isn't going anywhere. The Thunder have some decisions to make. You know, they're, they're, they're, their clocks ticking a little bit. You know, that, that second apron comes for everyone. And I know some people out there will say, well, they've been saving money, et cetera, et cetera. I get that. But the tax penalties get to be a point where they're going to be ridiculous. That's why Brad Stevens and the rest of the front office cleared $384 million in salary. So, so they, well, theoretically, so they could get back to a normal salary amount for the squad that they had. So the question becomes, you know, do you try and beat the best teams in your conference, which is clearly the Knicks at this point, what are you to beat them? Or do you say, if we can build a team that can compete with the spurs, they'll probably beat the Knicks anyway? I'm not quite sure where you fall on that. I think if you're looking to beat the spurs and Victor Wembanyama,

[Adam Kaufman]

I'm not,

[Evan Valenti]

I'm not quite sure how you're going to do that. I'm not quite sure how, how you get to that spot. This guy is unbelievable. And again, we, we're, we're taping this on a Friday before they play game three. We have no idea how it's going to go. Zero clue. But I'll tell you for game one, watch him pull up it from 30ft to time the game with 26 seconds left, having 40 points, 25 rebounds, all that stuff. At age 22, you're sitting there thinking, like, I Don't. I don't know, man. That's pretty tough. Like, that's pretty tough. Is. Do you have to get desperate and get a Giannis. You have to go out and get a player that's top five, top three to compete with a guy that's top one. Like, folks, sorry to say it, but Wemby's probably gonna be the best player of the year next year. Just gonna tell you, do you have to go out and get another top five player to compete like that to. To. To pair him with Jason Tatum? Do you pair him, both Taylor and Brown, to get rid of White? Like, I'm. I'm not quite sure. Do you beat him in the aggregate? Do you say, look, we'll trade Derrick White to get a couple of guys, so we have 10, 11 guys that can come at you instead of.

[Adam Kaufman]

But here's, here's what I would ask you about because, because we've. We've kind of had that conversation. I'm not anti, like, you know, beating somebody in the aggregate and what have you. I've. I've made that, like, I mean, people have attacked me for suggesting that, like, heaven forbid, you deal away Jaylen Brown if you're not getting the, you know, the, the better player in return. Well, that's, again, that's, that's an aggregate kind of situation. But what I would say about that is it's not just Wemby, it's Wemby, it's Fox, it's Castle, it's Harper, it's Fascel. Like, the spurs are effing loaded. This team is incredible. So, yeah. Is Wemby your. Your most important player? Without a doubt. But it's not like it's just him that you're trying to overcome.

[Evan Valenti]

So are you just going to be like a Giannis? It's got to be Giannis because he's the old. Like, let's say we're getting. It's. Let's say you go out and get like a demonic Sabonis and X whatever, because you're not trading Jalen Brown for the bonus of bonus. Like, that's, that's a step backwards. I like the modest, don't get me wrong, step backwards.

[Adam Kaufman]

Loves you gotta.

[Evan Valenti]

You got to get a lot of stuff in the aggregate to make that work.

[Adam Kaufman]

Complete Sabona for that guy.

[Evan Valenti]

The problem is, like, there aren't a lot of guys, the caliber of the Jays that are really out there where you can take one of them and upgrade and get a lot better because you're looking it seems to me you're looking for high end talent. How can you find a way to, to obtain high end ready to go talent right now? And it feels like Giannis maybe is the only answer to that question.

[Adam Kaufman]

Well, I, let me ask you this, I'm asking you directly, but really, I'm asking all of you out there listening, weigh in, by all means, in the YouTube chat, we want to see it. Maybe we'll bring some of the answers, responses to the show next week and we can continue to debate because it's not like this Giannis conversation is going anywhere.

[Evan Valenti]

Yeah,

[Adam Kaufman]

I don't want, like, if we're just talking purely emotionally, I'm not even talking about basketball. I don't want to split up the Jays. I would love for these guys to both be lifetime Celtics and all that comes along with that and obviously would love to see them win again together. And I am not, you know, this about me after doing this show, said we started the show or took over this show in 2018. We've been doing it for a long time. I have never been one of those. The Jays can't win together, can't play together, don't look right. And never, not one time, not once over the years. But do you believe, purely for basketball reasons, that Giannis and Tatum is just too, excuse me, too compelling a fit to overlook? If it's there and it's available to you, it like there's, there's no debate. There shouldn't be anyway. There's no debate as to who the better basketball player is. It's Giannis. Sorry, Jalen. It's Giannis. I think everybody knows that. That doesn't mean he is superior in every single way. But who's the better player? A B, It's Giannis.

[Evan Valenti]

It's.

[Adam Kaufman]

It's just Giannis. Those two, Giannis, Tatum have different skill sets, different abilities, play different positions, do not overlap in any way, complement each other in a number of different ways. If you are not overwhelmingly sacrificing your depth, bringing in Giannis and you are not scared about potential future injuries stemming from a calf turning into an Achilles, you know, that's something that scares the out of me. But if it doesn't worry you, those two together, are you willing? Do you believe the Celtics get, they improve enough, they get, they get better enough to where you are potentially shortening your championship window into a, you know, okay, all right. We got a couple years here that we can really lean into these guys versus maybe you have a slightly elongated window. If you don't do something like that, you improve on the margins around the Jays. Would you like to get better, faster, for a shorter period of time? If it means Tatum and Giannis versus continuing to trust in Brad and Zarin and all of these guys to build around the fringes and hope that you can get there in the aggregate knowing that it's just tougher because bottom line, talent wins out in the NBA.

[Evan Valenti]

Well, that's the, that's the thing. Talent is the number one key in the whole, in the whole equation. The problem that we have here is Giannis has a player option 20, 27, 2028 for 62 million. So if you trade for him this offseason, you're probably gonna have to sign him to an extension. So you're gonna probably have to lock this in at this point. The problem that you also have is players of Giannis's caliber just don't, don't shake off the tree too often. You don't get the opportunity to grab a guy like that. And I, I, I'll be honest with you, the idea of pairing Giannis and Tame together is extremely tantalizing to me. Can you imagine how many rebounds these guys would get? You're talking about trying to win the possession. Like, what was the big thing that we talked about all season, especially with Dan Greenberg, who's our guy, who's on the show quite frequently. You know, they, they wanted to put the possession battle in their favor, so they crashed the offensive glass to gain extra possessions and limited to one possession on each side. I mean, on the defensive side, so that you, they can, they can get out, run, whatever, whatever. So if you get Giannis in here and you have Jason Tatum already, like, you have two guys that rebound the absolute crap out of the basketball. Okay? Getting Giannis also probably settles your, your big man depth a little bit. We entertained the idea of John Collins last week as a guy to fit in here with Keda as either a backup bag or maybe a complimentary big. You play them both together, do you bring Garza back? Do you, do you play Amari Williams a little bit more? Like, whatever. Bringing in the honest solves your big man problem immediately. I mean, immediately. The question you now have is now your perimeter is not nearly as good. Like, you don't have the perimeter that's used to. So how do you upgrade that? Is Derek White still on this team? Do you trade him, too? Like, how do you, how do you make this work? Because if you bring Giannis in and you have to sign him to an extension, guess What? You're still gonna have the same issues that you have with Jalen Brown in terms of money, in terms of financing. It's going to be difficult to build a team around two guys that take up 70% of your cap, whether it's Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum or it's Jason Tatum and Giannis De Gumpo. Can you keep all three of those guys around for a while? I find it very interesting to have Derrick White as part of that team, but maybe you get Giannis, you bring him in, then you trade out Derrick White and you try and build on the periphery that way. Not a lot of teams are going to have the ability to match your star power talent if everybody's healthy with Jason Tatum and Giannis. But to your point, now you're relying on two guys. One of them just ruptured his Achilles. The other one is a potential rupture coming. If this calf. Whatever. We don't. We don't know what the cab anymore. It could be nothing. Could be a huge deal. We don't know. Yeah, there's a lot of risk in that. So if you're training for Giannis, and this is. Simmons had this on his last show with Rob Mahoney. He had the nugget of. Giannis wants Boston, but I'm not totally sure Boston wants Giannis. And that seems insane. It seems insane, but I bet that's. That's got to enter the thought process of. Okay. And Tatum's been in, like, one of the best iron men in basketball since he's been on the basketball floor. Derrick White, similar guy, but Jason Tatum, this injury and then having his little issue that he had during the playoffs. It's got to scare you a little bit. Cough a little bit. And then you have Giannis, big man in his 30s. He's 32 at this moment. You know, do you do a. A KG Ray Allen thing where we're getting these guys and we're going to ride them to. The wheels come off. They got one out of it. They almost got two out of it. They might have gotten two. If KG doesn't get hurt in 09, like, are you comfortable with that or are you trying to do something bigger than that? Here's.

[Adam Kaufman]

We could spend a lot of time on this question I'm about to pose.

[Evan Valenti]

We're going to probably anyway.

[Adam Kaufman]

No, we're kind of hitting. Hitting different things along the way. Maybe we could do a whole show with a guest at some point on this topic. I will just ask you.

[Evan Valenti]

Don't.

[Adam Kaufman]

Don't Give me a long explanation. Just yes or no would be fine. Do you believe that Jason Tatum, obviously, once he gets fully healthy, but do you believe Jayson Tatum is still improving as a basketball player? Yeah, me too. Do you believe that same thing of Jaylen Brown right now?

[Evan Valenti]

Absolutely.

[Adam Kaufman]

I don't know that I do.

[Evan Valenti]

How do you. How can you. How can you watch this season and say no? How?

[Adam Kaufman]

Because. Because I think what we may have just seen from Jaylen Brown is his ceiling, which is not a bad, low ceiling. He'll be all NBA. You can make. You can make a case for him to be all NBA first team.

[Evan Valenti]

We're gonna bookmark this time, this time stamp right here. This is where that you hate Jalen Brown. Comments are coming right now.

[Adam Kaufman]

I just. I. What. What is. I guess I'm wondering what's left for him to get better at that. You think he's going to improve that?

[Evan Valenti]

I think the vision took a huge step forward this year. I think the ability to play in the paint a little bit more, get inside the pale more was a little bit better. He slowed down a little bit.

[Adam Kaufman]

But don't you feel like it regressed when Tatum returned?

[Evan Valenti]

Well, that's because they hadn't had enough time to kind of, you know, collaborate.

[Adam Kaufman]

You don't have enough experience playing together?

[Evan Valenti]

Not. Not with Jalen at this particular moment in his career. No. And. And there's a. There's a possibility life gets easier for the both of them. I. Here's what I'll tell you.

[Adam Kaufman]

Let me rephrase. Let me rephrase before I get completely attacked by you and by everybody else.

[Evan Valenti]

I love this.

[Adam Kaufman]

Jalen has a higher ceiling than where he is at, but it's not next to Jason Tatum.

[Evan Valenti]

Okay.

[Adam Kaufman]

I don't think. I don't think he continues improving individually as a basketball player, as a member of the Celtics. How about that? You want to go put him on Atlanta or something like that? Sure. You agree with that?

[Evan Valenti]

I. I think I agree with that.

[Adam Kaufman]

Okay.

[Evan Valenti]

But, like, one. One thing I'm not going to do, coming from.

[Adam Kaufman]

In terms of my point, I don't feel like. Like, I. I don't want to say these guys together have reached their ceiling, because their ceiling. I'm sure they have. They won a championship. They could do that again. So I'm not saying we couldn't see that again, but I don't know. And no one knows. We haven't seen it. I don't know what last year's Jalen looks like with a healthy Jason Tatum and I don't know if we're even capable of seeing it. I don't know if someone has to sacrifice and if they do, it's Brown, it just is

[Evan Valenti]

there's sacrifice has to happen from both guys. I don't think sacrificing is just a one way street here. I think Tatum has to do a little sacrificing. I think Brown has to do sacrificing. Right. That's that part of the secret sauce of 2024 was when they sacrificed there was Derrick White and Drew they ready to sacrifice to. You know what I mean? Like I'm just gonna go to Drew Holiday or we're the Derrick White or give it to Porzingis who when he played, when he was on the court was an unbelievable cheat code for this team. It just didn't happen at the right times the end of the year. But both of them have to sacrifice. But what I'll say is with Jalen Brown, I don't. The guy has come in every year better than he was the year prior. Now we'll all admit, we can all admit that this particular season without Jason Tatum around was his best one yet. No question about. That's where the sacrifice comes in. He had to sacrifice a little bit to accommodate Jason Tatum. When Jaden's not there, he can do a little bit more. I, I would like to see as an emotional guy, I would like to see a full season of what Jalen looks like as a, this new version of himself in Tatum figuring out how he can best help his teammate. I'm very interested in that. At the same time, if there's, How do I put this? If, if there's, if the, because this, this little, all the chatter about Jalen isn't like Boston wants out, maybe Sims talking his way out, blah, blah. If that's actually real and Jalen's like, you know what, dude? I, I, I, I enjoyed running my own team. That's what I really want. Then fine. The Giannis thing obviously makes a ton.

[Adam Kaufman]

Yeah, you've got won't change his mind on it if that's how he feel.

[Evan Valenti]

Yeah, if that's what's, if that's really. Because like the Perk thing. Did you see this Perk thing where he was like I got text messages from players.

[Adam Kaufman]

Perk is just. I, I don't, I don't know.

[Evan Valenti]

Did see that.

[Adam Kaufman]

I mean, yeah, I did. And I'm sure for anyone that, that missed it, you know, it's, it's Perk saying that he's I Mean literally going on air, reading receipts, you know, claiming he's got texts from other members. You know, I don't know about present, but past for sure of the Celtics organization saying that, you know, like, we don't rock with Jaylen and we're. We're not, you know, not. Not supporting where he's at, basically, you know, Smith's coattails.

[Evan Valenti]

Yeah, but is that like. Is that like Glenn Davis? Is that like. Is that like Leon. It's not Leon Polon wouldn't do that. Leon is not that guy. I'm not gonna put the organization. It's like, is it James Posey? Like, who? Like. Because I'll tell you, the important guys, like, Robert Parish loves Jaylen Brown.

[Adam Kaufman]

Robert Parish ain't texting. Perk.

[Evan Valenti]

That's also very. That's also very true. Definitely. Definitely. My point on that was like. Like, okay, perk. You might have text message from, like, the. Whatever guy in the bench. You might have, like, a text from Von Wafer for all we know. You know what I mean? Like, who knows who those former Celtics are? It's not Evan Turner. He's been on the record about that.

[Adam Kaufman]

Evan Turner's on Team Tatum.

[Evan Valenti]

Yeah.

[Adam Kaufman]

I didn't know we were going full twilight with these two, but apparently that's where we've reached.

[Evan Valenti]

But my point being, like, if. If that is. If that is real, that's just for the. For the sake of the argument, let's assume could be any house. We don't know, but let's assume that it's real. If that's real and Jalen wants out, it's fine. Like, then you guess what. You know what, jalen, thanks for 2024. Thanks for all your help. You've been an amazing advocate for the city of Boston. You've been an incredible. You've been left a huge imprint on our city. Thanks for everything. Here's your own team. We'll take you. Like that. I get that's a scenario where I'm like, I'm good. That I'm cool with.

[Adam Kaufman]

Yeah.

[Evan Valenti]

The scenario where you're trading Jaylen Brown for Giannis. Because you are. I. I'm not. I don't know if I've flown fully come there yet. And when Simmons, literally Friday morning, I was listening to it.

[Adam Kaufman]

Yeah.

[Evan Valenti]

Said, you know, Giannis wants Boston, but I'm not sure Boston wants Giannis. I kind of get what they mean. Do you?

[Adam Kaufman]

I. I have two Giannis related questions for you. But first, let's take a quick break. Tell you today's show is powered by Rocket Money. Look, life is getting more expensive by the day. Trust me, I know. I've got three kids. Unfortunately, there's nothing you can really do about that part part of things. So there's spreadsheets. They can be helpful, can be a little overwhelming as well. That's why we want to talk to you about Rocket Money, Ev.

[Evan Valenti]

Yeah, I don't know about you guys to get royal you out there, but I know I use doordash quite a bit, especially this time of year. For me, it's a bit easy time of year for guys that sell men's clothes and rental tuxedos for prom. So I don't love to cook all the time after work because I'm so crazy at work. Sure. I'm gonna be honest with you. Cough. I'm not going to be really excited to see my statement in the mail after how much I've doordashed the house. And I like cooking. Don't leave me wrong. I cooking. But been a lot of doordash running in my household recently. And to be honest with you, buddy, I got some big things coming up. I got a vacation coming up. I might have to, you know, plan a wedding soon. You know, there's. I gotta save some money. I gotta. I gotta save a lot of money. And I'm gonna be cut on Rocket Money to help me get through this thing because expenses are gonna pile up and Rocket Money helps you with so many things. I mean, I'm nervous about my spending habits because I want to get my life in order. That might be you too. You want to get your life under control financially. You want to save up for a big purchase like a watch or a house or a car or want some help you stay on track? Rocket Money can help with all of that. Plus, it keeps track of all your subscription services and has the ability to cancel unwanted ones. With just a few taps on your phone, the app has helped save people over $880 million. That's nine figures worth of money. Cough.

[Adam Kaufman]

The only little nugget that you dropped in there bigger than that gigantic number was Wedding to Plan. Anyone else? Anyone else hear that from Ev? Rocket Money. It's a personal finance app. Helps you find and cancel unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so that you can grow your savings. Let Rocket Money help you reach your financial goals faster. Join@rocket money.com CBP that is Celticspeed podcast again. Rocketmoney.com CBP One more time. Rocketmoney.com CBP Back to the show. All right, so we're talking about Giannis like everybody else is going to continue to be until there's a resolution to this. And I would say that is weeks, if not months away. So, yeah, that's going to continue to be top of mind as it relates to Celtics fans. So long as some of you out there, and I don't really believe it, want to think that they are in the mix. And that doesn't mean Boston's not interested again, the Simmons report or isn't going to inquire already has. We know that it's just. Will Giannis wind up here? And I, I just don't believe it. I don't think that's going to happen. But let's play the game for a. I don't know exactly what packages would look like, clearly, but if I'm just saying to you, hey, Giannis is coming. You trading Jalen Brown more or less straight up, or you keeping Brown, you're trading White, and I would say Hauser for sure, possibly Pritchard, some combination. And there's picks that are certainly going to be involved as well. But ultimately, if you are bringing Giannis in next to Tatum, do you prefer to keep Brown or to keep White

[Evan Valenti]

taking money out of the equation? Because trading Derrick White is. It's hard to get to that salary number.

[Adam Kaufman]

Well, it just takes more players. You can do it, right? Like I just said, Hauser's probably gone. Maybe it's Peyton. We'll see.

[Evan Valenti]

Well, I definitely don't like that version. Just because now you have like no guard depth at all whatsoever. You're relying on. You're fully into the point. Tatum, which has always been like go to thing to say for several years. I just want more Jason Tatum running the show. You are fully committed to that. You are looking for just the best shooters humanly possible. Outside of those three guys. You know, can Shireman be one of those guys? Do you go out and get another absolute lockdown shooter? You know, could you bring in, like, you know, is there a way to bring like a Luke Canard sort of situ. I'm not. This is what you got to get the best of the best shooters that you've ever seen put around these guys, and if they can defend a little bit, that would be fantastic. But you have three great defenders to, you know, Ugo's going to play a lot more. Like, there's, there's. It's complicated because you're, you're just betting on star talent. That being said, you're all into a series with Everybody healthy of Jaylen, Jason and Giannis. That's a. That you're going to keep coaches up at night with that. Like, if you're. So to circle it all the way back to our. To our conversation about, are you gunning for the spurs or. Or the Thunder, or are you trying to just win your conference, beat the Knicks, beat the Pacers, etc. Well, if you had those three guys, everybody's looking at you. You're not looking at anybody else, right? Like, even the spurs are like, boy, we gotta play those three guys for seven games. Like, that's gonna be really difficult. So is that. Is. Is. Are you falling in that particular part of the. Hey, man, like, look, if, if the. The second apron penalties. And obviously, look, you. If you. All those things are very prohibitive, but, like, if you have the opportunity to go for it, you go for it. Like this past season. What was this past season? 4. You know, some people are going to say, development. Jalen Brown doing his thing. Somebody going to tell you, get under the tax, reset some stuff, and have the ability to make moves better.

[Adam Kaufman]

Like, Scala's still screaming to do that right now. Take another year, don't do anything, and then get ready to fire the slingshot or whatever he said. Right. Know what that means?

[Evan Valenti]

Load up the Trey Beshay. I don't know. I. I'm sure it worked in scout's head, but if that's the plan, that's the idea, then I, I can. I can get that. But it's just a really scary proposition, and you're extremely thin after those three guys. And that's. Again, you're. And we're. What do we start the show with? The spurs and Thunder beating the crap out of each other? We'll see whoever gets to play the Knicks, and the Knicks are probably thrilled because they're gonna be healthy by the time they get there. And you're probably not.

[Adam Kaufman]

You know, I think I understand both. So I don't want to say, like, there's one very clear answer. I don't feel that way. And this is, again, gonna. It's gonna reset the whole Kaufman hates Jalen thing, which couldn't be farther from the truth. The thing. Excuse me. Think about. Think about Tatum, Giannis, Brown, as compared to. Even if you don't want to do the, like, Pierce, kg, Allen, you know, get a little more modern with it. Do you know lebron, Bosch, Wade?

[Evan Valenti]

Right.

[Adam Kaufman]

Something like that. Point is, somebody has to sacrifice. And in this situation, I think all three of those guys want to get theirs like pretty openly, you know, I don't think any of those three, especially considering they've all won a title already, are looking to take a statistical step back, you know, for the betterment of the team. Maybe I'm wrong. So if I'm talking, if I'm, you know, thinking about again, purely basketball and the balance of a team, of a roster. We've talked about this. I mean, Derek, I'm not going to say Derrick White is a better player than Jalen Brown. That's not what I'm saying. Lord knows Jalen is the superior score like by far. But Derrick White does most other things better than Jalen, including defense. I know Jaylen always likes to believe he's the best defensive player on the floor. White's a better defender. So that to me, if you're doing this, and again, I'm not even thinking about the finances and obviously Jaylen is in theory do this gigantic $140 million two year extension. Derek White's never going to sniff money like that. So you have more financial resolve by keeping a Derrick White version versus a Jalen Brown version. But again, it's not my money. I don't care about Bill Chisholm's wallet. So that again, not the point.

[Evan Valenti]

Your problem there is though, if you're trading is this. We're all trading for Giannis in the situation. If that. Is that your.

[Adam Kaufman]

Yeah, if you're trading for Giannis.

[Evan Valenti]

Okay, well.

[Adam Kaufman]

And you got to give up one.

[Evan Valenti]

Well, Giannis slides into the 50 million dollar, 60 million dollar what Jalen's gonna make anyway. So the, the money is the same. So it's not like you're sacrificing.

[Adam Kaufman]

No, but I'm talking about if you were, if you were keeping the Jays and Giannis and then all of a sudden everybody is due their payday.

[Evan Valenti]

Yeah, you'd have to have a conversation with everybody.

[Adam Kaufman]

Giannis is due what, a four year, 250ish million dollar, gajillion dollar.

[Evan Valenti]

Yeah, he's gonna be able to just basically never work. I mean, he hasn't worked a day in his life anyway. But like the money is going to be insane. You're talking, you know, 70 million, you know, 80. He's gonna be the highest paid player in basketball very shortly here. Like not far off from the highest. He's gonna hit. He's gonna have all the super Max stuff.

[Adam Kaufman]

But then Brown maybe is going to be 70, Tatum is going to be, you know, close to 80 eventually. Like so I, I don't know. I, so that that was kind of the. Again, we. We've hit on so many different things within the show that could be entire shows themselves, but we just want to, you know, hit some of these Cliffs Notes type topics as. As all of this goes along. The final thing with the honest that I wanted to mix in. I've been texting with a friend of mine about this recently, and. And he brought up, you know, a lot of the things that I'll mention, but I agree with them. I think that. Excuse me, like, where to. If. Let's say that the reporting that's out there is true. Giannis wants to stay in the east, he wants to go to a contender, and I don't really even believe that's true if we're going to continue to have the Miami conversation, because the Heat aren't going to win crap with Giannis like that. So I'm going to be afraid of Giannis and bam. And nothing else on that roster like that. They'll be like a six seed. So I. That's. That's. I don't worry about Giannis in Miami, and I. And I laugh at the suggestion that he only wants to be with the contender if he goes to the Heat, but let's pretend the other things are true. Where do you think he should go?

[Evan Valenti]

Charlotte?

[Adam Kaufman]

Interesting. I mean, you gotta. You got a fun core there, very athletic core.

[Evan Valenti]

You know, they probably. I don't know if they have. I'm on spot track right now, so maybe I can look it up pretty quick. I don't know if they have the. The money to line up for Giannis. They clearly have the assets for it.

[Adam Kaufman]

Sure.

[Evan Valenti]

I mean, and they have a young team with a bunch of smaller salaries that you wouldn't have to necessarily panic. Like, we've been talking about Boston and like, you know, you. You take that salary on, but it's gonna be more expensive as you get going here, could you take. Yeah, I'll. I got it right here. Hang on. Would you do. I just want to make sure spot track lets me do it. But I got the trade for you right now. Lamello and Miles Bridges for Giannis, because the money works. Now, you might have to throw some picks their way, obviously. Maybe if you're. Charlotte, you know, they have a bunch of younger guys, obviously. Khan is untouchable, Brandon Miller is untouchable, but they have Liam McNeely. They have. You know, if you're into Tray, man, I don't think anybody is a saloon. You know, they got some guys, they have some picks. See what they Got for draft picks. They have two picks in this year's draft. They own Dallas's pick three through 30. They own Miami's pick 15 through 30 next year.

[Adam Kaufman]

Well, any, any team can make a package work.

[Evan Valenti]

Well. They have three first round draft picks in 2027. My, my point being is they have a ton of picks. Yeah, if, if I were Charlotte first off, your team in the east, you can compete. You already did. You have all your trade assets, you have the contracts to make it work and then you have the, the younger guys that are, they don't take up a lot of money around him too to make this even more ideal. So again, you know, we don't know who's going to trade for him yet. We have no idea. I don't know if Charlotte's even on the radar yet. My point being, if Charlotte wanted to do it, they could clearly do it.

[Adam Kaufman]

I mean, well, let's remember, and this is the thing that I, I'm not going to say it's not talked about, but I don't think it's talked about enough, is that ultimately all that really matters, where Giannis wants to go. I know he doesn't have a no trade clause, but we know how this goes in the NBA. Superstars dictate their teams. So he's going to be a free agent a year. If Milwaukee tried to, you know, hold them down and, and, and get confrontational about it. But if Yanis says I want to go to Miami and the best they're getting is some package centered around Tyler Kiro, even though clearly a Jalen Brown package or whoever package is better, doesn't matter. Milwaukee's just gonna have to count out of where Giannis wants to go. That's the way it works. Kevin Durant has proven that year after year. James Harden has proven that. Paul George has proven that. Kawhi Leonard has proven that.

[Evan Valenti]

It's didn't work for game though.

[Adam Kaufman]

No, I guess not. But it's. But in general, it's a fact.

[Evan Valenti]

It works for most. It works for most people. Maybe not, but it works for most people. So

[Adam Kaufman]

he won't want to. I think he should want to go to Cleveland now. He just spent his whole career in Milwaukee. He certainly doesn't want to go move to Ohio. I get the appeal of Miami, don't get me wrong. But Mitchell needs help. Mitchell is about as inconsistent as they come in, in, you know, high level all Stars, not a superstar. Fight me like Donovan Mitchell's not a superstar.

[Evan Valenti]

I don't know if I agree with that.

[Adam Kaufman]

He's an all star. He's a star, but he is too inconsistent and hasn't won nearly enough to be on the superstar plateau. He needs help. He needs another guy who is even remotely at his level. They don't have it, but they've got pieces.

[Evan Valenti]

Oh, they have. They definitely have pieces for that.

[Adam Kaufman]

And they got pieces and an Evan Mobley package going the other way. You bring in Giannis, you still have Allen, presumably Harden, even though he's at 37. You got some other younger shooters. I mean, Cleveland becomes a team, I'm not saying it would, but becomes very capable anyway, of being, let's call it a 65 win regular season team, and then makes a deep playoff run and is a true viable contender. Giannis makes that team like Giannis takes a Cleveland team that I generally laugh at or am perpetually unimpressed by and turns it into an actual legitimate, undisputable contender in the Eastern Conference.

[Evan Valenti]

Yeah, you could do. I'm not sure.

[Adam Kaufman]

I'm just not sure he cares about that enough. Yeah, winning is ultimately the number one. It's important, but it may not be as important as destination.

[Evan Valenti]

I'm just. Because we're having fun here. I pulled up Giannis for like Mobley Stru and picks and stuff. Like, there's stuff like that you could do.

[Adam Kaufman]

Yeah.

[Evan Valenti]

Obviously Cleveland, after this is done with, we all think they're probably going to lose, is going to look in the mirror and say, okay, yeah, how do we get better? Like, that would be. I mean, they have a James Harden question to answer, but I think they already have the answer to that question. It's a matter of, like, when he comes back. So can they afford Giannis, Harden and Mitchell all together with Jared Allen? Like, I don't know. Could. Could Boston get in on that and say, hey, we'll take Jared Allen off your hands because you can't afford all that. You know, there. Maybe there's a discussion they had there, but it's. It's going to be tricky. This yacht Giannis is a huge piece for several reasons. One, the contract's massive, and two, at full health as you reshuffle the top five now, he's probably still top five. I mean, you're going to have Wemby, sga, Jokic, Luca, and Giannis probably is your top five. I'm. I'm omitting Tatum because Wemby has fully supplanted and I think everybody at this point in the NBA. So you're talking. You're still getting a Top five player at a top five salary. So it's going to be, it's going to be heavy lifting. So whoever trades for Giannis, which I think is where we're going to end up here, it's gonna have to take a lot. You know, if it's, if it's, you know, Charlotte, it's, you know, Lamello and, and Miles Bridges, which I don't think is that big of a deal for, for, for Charlotte. But, you know, for a team like the Cavs, you know you're going to sacrifice one of your best shooters and your best young asset. I would call Evan Mobley their best young asset because Donovan Mitchell's not that young anymore. If it's Boston, it's like a Jalen Brown type of situation. Like, it's going to take a lot to get Giannis out of there. I don't know if the attraction for Giannis because as you said, he's got to get the kind of pick where he wants to go. Yep. I don't think he's going to want to go to like a Brooklyn who's got the five first round picks they drafted in this last draft and none of them are any good. Like, I don't think it's going to be one of those teams where they can overwhelm it. Here's a bunch of young dudes. Here you go. No, it's not going to be like that. It's going to take legit talent leaving. So like as the Atlanta option. Right. So Jalen goes to Atlanta, a bunch of Atlanta stuff goes to Milwaukee. The young, proven talent on Atlanta in Boston gets Giannis. Like that's the type of stuff we're talking about here.

[Adam Kaufman]

Anyway, it's going to be fascinating, but I, I think humbly, I think we brought up some interesting things in this show as talking points. I'm not saying they are all completely unique. I know we like to joke around. Celtics beat, always first and true in a lot of different areas. Some of what we discussed today has been obviously been talked about elsewhere, but hopefully with some, you know, different spins along the way to keep you thinking. At the very least, we would love to hear from you in the chat and you know, bring some of those to light when we chat again next week as we do wrap up the month of May. And you know, I guess as we sit here now though, everyone enjoy your Memorial Day weekend, nice holiday weekend, hopefully a nice long stretch prom season over there in, in EVs neck of the woods. And everybody else, except he's got to work the thing. And beyond that. Great review. Subscribe to Celtics Beat the audio version wherever you get your podcasts or of course, video. You can leave those comments in the YouTube section. You can check out our show or many other shows across. I'm here across the CLNS Media Network, the All access show on YouTube specifically for us. If you can't tell, I'm eager to get to bed, so look forward to talking to all of you guys again real soon. For Ev, Adam, our friends at Prize Picks and Rocket Money, Harrison and and Ahmed behind the scenes, everybody involved. We'll talk to you again real soon. Bye.