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Today's Friday, May 29th, and this is Celtics Beat on CLNS Media, the leading online provider of audio video coverage of the Boston Celtics. I'm Adam Kaufman. Episode 678 678. How about that? Features the MVP of the 1981 finals, Cedric Maxwell.
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And I'm Evan Valenti. And today's show is powered by Prize Picks. Prize Picks in is the official daily fantasy partner of CLNS Media. Download the app today, use the promo code CLNS and get $50 in lineups when you play. $5.
- [02:12]
C
Hey everyone, welcome in. This is Celtics Beat One Last edition for the month of May, June right around the corner. That means the NBA Finals are only days away. Who's it going to be? We know one half of the bracket, of course, the New York Knicks representing the Eastern Conference on the other side. Well, we're getting that seven game war that we all hoped for in the west between Oklahoma City, the defending champs, and San Antonio. We can preview game 7, look ahead to the potential NBA Finals matchups. I do want to do all of that, but yes, I'm well aware. Before you start going crazy in the YouTube comment section. This is a Celtics show first. And so we begin with the Cs. And who better to join us than, of course, a long time voice and analyst, ambassador of the Boston Celtics, a former Celtic and NBA Finals mvp, and oh, by the way, part of the clns family as well, with the Cedric Maxwell podcast. None other than Cedric Maxwell. Max, how you doing?
- [03:08]
A
I am doing fine, gentlemen. I'm down here in North Carolina. The weather is absolutely gorgeous and just kind of loving life. Been away from basketball for a while. So I was excited to get your call. When you guys today, let's have this thing going on. So I'm gonna love to throw my two cents in and tell you about what I think about the Celtics and especially this Jalen Brown stuff.
- [03:33]
C
Well, why don't, why don't we start there? Because that's, that's what everybody is wondering. Max, I don't need to tell you what the national or even the local commentary has been. Everyone is just kind of waiting with bated breath to see what Brad Stevens and that front office ultimately will do with respect to this roster. The debates as to not, you know, can you win with Jason Tatum, Jalen Brown, we all know the answer to that question is yes. But in terms of team building, what makes the most sense for the franchise? Spending wise, ownership, potentially further ducking tax thresholds and trying to deliver on some of the things that Brad said at the end of the year, knowing full well, hey, 3 and 11 against the best teams in the league. We need a presence in around the rim, inside. We need another true point guard. There are. This is a flawed team, like the whole Eastern Conference for that matter. It's a flawed team. And the biggest domino surrounds Jalen as to whether he is dealt with. And obviously you get hopefully a sizable return for him, maybe at the peak in the eyes of some Giannis Antentokounmpo, who, as we all widely expect, will leave Milwaukee. Or do you run it back with the Jays and as some have said, just improve on the fringes around the margins. What say you?
- [04:59]
A
I would like to improve on the fringes. I think you have two dynamic young players who have played well together. They understand the game Jalen has really taken on has gone to another level. The only thing that confuses me about this is all the other stuff surrounding Jalen Brown, you know, the health right now of Tatum, you know, you saw that, you know, him getting better. So I, I just think there are a lot of different things I look at in this team, but One thing you look at is, is are you going to deal? Are you going to deal Brown? And I think it's come down to, you know, he could. In July, I think this is going like in July, the team can offer him an extension of up to $70 million a year. And the word I hear, if he box on that, that extension now, that you are possibly going to try to move him and go elsewhere. So a lot of movable parts for Brad Stevens and who he is. And we know Brad's not afraid to pull the trigger, but at the same time, boy, you, you really got to get this right if you lose, you know, essentially like a generational player for the Boston Celtics. If you think about youth being the Finals mvp, almost an MVP in the regular season, he played that well. To be, you know, to be an all star and, you know, all NBA players. So it, it's just so many things going on.
- [06:37]
B
Yeah, it's. And Jalen's not making this easier by. And I'm not saying this is a bad thing. It's just, it's been the media reaction of everybody when he hits a twitch stream and says a few things and then first takes leading with the next day Stephen A. And park and everybody kind of jumping aboard here. Max, are you of the guy of the variety of people that say, like, well, he's making too much noise. It's affecting the team negatively. You got to get him out of here because he's just chatting, he's yapping too much.
- [07:09]
A
How's it affecting the team? I don't, I don't quite again, this is. I don't, I don't, I don't understand the narrative that we're talking about that affects the team. I mean, because he's, he's going back and forth with Stephen A.
- [07:22]
B
Right.
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A
And if anything, I would just like to cut the chatter. But let's, first of all, let's dive into what he said and what you hear Stephen A saying. He said Jalen Brown right now that the organization in whispers and they don't like him. And the city of Boston doesn't really like Jaylen Brown and so many other things about him. And Jalen tweets back and I'm looking and reading this and thinking like. And Perk jumps in it. You don't like Jalen Brown, but you're offering him, you want to offer him an extension of $70 million. This city has embraced him. He has been a darling going to these schools and, and putting out his. Putting his money where his mouth is. At, you know, he's an articulate kid. You know, I don't think that in. In his. His parlance, I don't think he wins this battle. I wish, you know, you just let it go because you can't. You can't beat the media. Yeah. As much as you want to, you cannot beat the media. But he is painting his own picture, and that's kind of fascinating to see. You know, are we going to see this Ali Frazier, you know, at Harvard University? These two guys getting together and putting it on the line, Dumb jock against, you know, reporter. It's. It's just kind of crazy to look at it from afar, and I wish it would go away, but at the same time, he has a right to kind of do what he wants to, especially when he starts putting up those numbers and doing what he did this year on the court.
- [08:55]
C
Well, Stephen A. Is going to do Stephen A. Things. And that. Honestly, I. I don't take issue with that.
- [09:02]
B
And.
- [09:02]
C
And I'm not. You know, you can have your opinions as to whether you believe Jaylen should be squashing this thing or continuing to rebuttal. That's the other thing in the middle, though. And you brought him up. You've got Perk. Perk's a different animal. Perk is part of the fraternity. You know, Perk is. Is a former Celtic, a former player, a champion. Now, I know he's kind of Persona non grata around the seas, you know, not getting invited to the championship parade a couple years ago. And even. Even Wick Grossbeck saying that, you know, he heard from some people, hey, if. If Wick's invited, we're not coming, that sort of thing. So obviously Perk has burnt some bridges in this second chapter, working in the media, but there's that and expressing an opinion. Then there's going to the. I've got receipts. I've heard from this guy. Not naming names, but I've heard from this guy.
- [09:55]
A
I've.
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C
I've heard from this guy. I've heard from this guy. Who aren't rocking with you, Jalen. Who aren't riding with you, Jalen. Who aren't on your side, Jaylen. And I guess I'm just wondering. We can't validate it or. Or. Or dismiss it because we don't know what his. His text threads look like. But I wonder what you've heard, you know, among people you're close to, other alumni, people in and around the organization. Do people not have a problem with Jalen specifically, but with the way that he has Been handling himself over the last few weeks.
- [10:28]
A
Don't you see this look on my face like I just had some sour milk? That. You know, that. That look right there, you know, when you give your kids something that they definitely don't want to have? You know, you have kids and you give them something. Oh, wait, hey, dad, calm down. Mom is the one that feeds us, not you. You should be feeding us somebody to say they have receipts and not showing them that. Well, where do we go at when we saw we. We go that way, like. Yeah, I guess these texts from players and unknown sources. I like Perks, my guy, you know, I've been around him when he first got in the league and now. But Perk is really. Right now. He's dealing with his own puppet master. No, he's no longer, you know, this Celtic legend, whatever it is. I have not heard anybody say anything bad about Jalen Brown considering the year that he had. And I really think it's crazy. When Jalen Brown had said this before the season ended, he said, it's one of my favorite. He's in my favorite year. And everybody went crazy about that. My favorite year. He. They lost the champ. My favorite year. He said, this is. Make sure I get this right. He said, this is my favorite year. He says, your favorite year. He says, so my. He said, it's my favorite year. And as far as I know. I know sometimes we, you know, in the White House, we cannot have our opinions anymore. But I think that he is. He's. He's. He has his opinion about how he feels, and he expressed that. If you look at that team the way it was and what we thought they were going to be. Yeah, they lost. It was very disappointing to lose to Philadelphia. I think the matchups killed them at the end, but did we even think that they would be in that position, having the kind of record that they had this year? And I remember walking up to Jaylen Brown and it was the day that Tatum was coming back, and I walked up to him before the game and I said, the reason he's back is because of you. The work that they put in this year, the work that you guys put in this year, the work that you put in this year gave Tatum an opportunity to come back. So does he come back if the team isn't playing well, if they are not winning? Yeah, I don't think he does. So he just acknowledged that. So I just think it's absolutely absurd when I think about all these people and what they're saying.
- [13:05]
B
How did Jalen take that little piece of motivation because I, That's a. I think it's a really nice way to frame that night because it was an emotional night. You were there. I mean, I. Everybody and everybody. All my friends that are all Celtics fans, that's all they wanted to talk about that night. It was, can't wait for this game. Can't wait for this game. Can't wait for this game. I think it's very interesting that you frame it that way. How did he take that?
- [13:29]
A
It just, you know, it was just for the game. He. He does a.
- [13:33]
B
He.
- [13:33]
A
He gets a little moment by himself where he's about to pray. And before he said that, that's when I walked up and said that to him. And he just looked at me. He acknowledged it and, you know, said, thank you. And that was pretty good. But it wasn't, you know, we didn't, we didn't start going back and forth and oh my God, this is. Yeah, thank you very much. No, it was just. Thank you. But I, but this, as a basketball player, as a person around this organization, this is what I saw. When I think about Jaylen Brown and what happened this year to this basketball club and what he did for this team. The 50 points he dropped on W. I think he plays as well as I've seen play. Chance, if they could have got by, you know, especially the matchups they have the going against okc, I think the Celtics were the best equipped team. If they, you know, if they play the way they play, who would think that Philly would play out of their ass and all of a sudden throw up on themselves when once they went to New York? It was crazy. It was, it was, you know, MB turns back the clock. Paul George looked like an all star. And, and the Celtics play not bad defense and they had an opportunity to
- [14:47]
C
win that game, play out of their ass and then look like ass all at once back to back series. It was really fun.
- [14:53]
A
But you know, how about top that off in the fact that Tatum did not play in game seven. They didn't play in game seven.
- [15:02]
C
It shouldn't have even gone to a game.
- [15:04]
A
Yeah, it shouldn't have. It should not have. I, I totally agree. But I think that one thing you saw was some of the things that happened. And I love Brad Stevens moves. One of the moves that didn't work was Vuch. That did not work for this team, you know, and, and I, I said only in respect. And I said only because I. The eye test of how he did not fit in at the end, even to the point where he didn't even play in that game. He didn't play about it. So I think, and you think of. You have Simon. She desperately looked like you needed some more scoring. Sure, if you had him instead of Vuch. But Brad made these moves.
- [15:52]
C
So I'm curious, Max, and this is just your opinion, obviously, but this is, you know, one of the conversations that people have around Jalen Brown. You've experienced a lot as a player. You've seen a lot in your role since. Do you feel like Jalen wants his own team? Do you feel like part of what we've seen over the last year, of him being more vocal on the Twitch stream, showing more personality? All things, by the way, that are good. I'm not condemning any of those things. I, I want him to be as, as outspoken, as comfortable in his own skin as. As he chooses to be. Use your platform, by all means, however you want to use it. That's. That's why it's there. But a lot of people are interpreting, maybe falsely some of that, that he is, I don't want to say eager, that's not the right word, but more open than he's ever been to getting out of Jason shadow, knowing full well that so long as he is a Celtic and the Tatum is a Celtic, There's a clear 1A and 1B. You're still a 1, but it's a 1A and a 1B and you're never going to be the 1A so long as the other guy is around. Do you think that that bothers him? Or do you think that so long as this team continues to play at a high level with those two guys side by side, he's okay with that.
- [17:19]
A
I would hope, and I don't know, but I would hope that that's not the case. If you are 1A, 1B, whatever it is, this organization is putting up funds for you, which have you as a number one. You've clearly become one of the best players in the league. Do you want your own team? I. I don't. I don't know. I. I don't know this. You know, it was your team for what, the entire season and then Tatum came back and it wasn't your team anymore, or are you just thinking about the prestige that goes along with it? I mean, I, I happen to play with one of the greatest players of all time in Larry Bird, and I understand how it is sometimes living in somebody else's shadow. But was Larry Bird deserving of all that? Yes, he Was, was Tatum deserving all the praise? Yes, he was. But you stepped out of that shadow and you think about, you know, being the MVP and the, an MVP in the finals, MVP in the Eastern Conference. I mean, I don't know how, if, if I have an umbrella and you want to put it over me and that's a shadow, damn it, put it over me. I'm in the south right now. It's 90 degrees here. Give me, give me an umbrella. I'll walk around. I mean, I did the Shannon Sharp show. Well, Ocho Cinco and those guys and they were just going on and, oh man, they're, look at the way they're treating right now. Jalen Brown, it's like they're, they're peeing all over him. I said, boy, let me ask you something. I tell you what, if they're peeing on them like that, giving them $300 million, give me a raincoat. I'd like to be in the middle of all that. Good God, are you crazy? Are you yet. I'm sorry. I know we're, you know, a fun loving show, but my God, man, come on, are we serious? When we talk about how the organization is disrespecting it, that's what's so stupid. When I hear, you know, I hear Stephen A. Smith talking about, oh my God, nobody likes him. He is. The organization doesn't like him. I don't, I, I don't know where, how far wrong Stephen A. Smith can be about that particular subject. Let's take quick break today.
- [19:42]
C
Today's show is powered by prize picks. Regular season's all wrapped up in the NBA. Of course the playoffs though, they are here. We're winding down too. And there is no better way to cash in on the high flying hoops action than prize picks, a preferred partner of the NBA. Every bucket, every dime, every win means more when you are playing on prize picks. So don't pass up your next shot with prize picks. Get $50 instantly in lineups when you play your first for only $5 F
- [20:10]
B
and cough, we can get tickets to the NBA Finals. You, me or anybody. Listen to the show. You have an opportunity thanks to price picks to go to the NBA Finals. All you got to do, make a five dollar lineup with at least one live NBA player pick in any part of the playoffs. You got one game left basically that is Saturday to basically register yourself for a chance to go to the NBA Finals. Live. Player picks, just for those of you who are curious are just picks made after games already in progress. So if you like one of the. The stats from one of our lineups, just wait for tip off, then immediately smash that button and rock and roll. But Kaufman, last week you were under the weather.
- [20:49]
C
You did.
- [20:50]
B
You had your MJ flu game. We much appreciate that here on the show. And you gave me the opportunity to catch you. You went by not putting any picks out there.
- [20:58]
A
Yeah, the.
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B
I had the ability to catch you.
- [21:00]
A
Right.
- [21:01]
B
I had to get two.
- [21:02]
A
Yeah.
- [21:02]
B
I only got one. So I'm down one. I'm down one. As we head to the NBA Finals while we have game seven here. So for game seven, buddy, I got a little interesting wrinkle here. You'll see in a minute.
- [21:16]
C
I'm start with the Aaron.
- [21:17]
B
We're going to start with the Aaron Fox who had a terrible game six. Guess what? I don't think he's gonna have eight. Game seven either. We're going dear. And Fox less than 14 points second leg. This one hurts Wemby less than 16 and a half rebounds and assists. He could have 16 rebounds by halftime. It's very possible, but he hasn't hit that number for a while. So we're going to stick with that. Yeah, My final one, Shay Gilgis Alexander in a game seven where he probably is gonna have to have a big game for the Thunder to move on to the finals. I'm going less than 29 and a
- [21:50]
C
half points and I think there's a good chance that we are not only gonna hit our flex play, we may knock out a power play. I think that we could both go 3, 0. Here you say De' Aaron Fox less than 14 points. I'm gonna go De' Aaron Fox more than nine and a half rebounds plus assists. Guy's been filling out the box score. You're right. Game six, not pretty form offensively. He missed a boatload of shots. I think most of his points, if not all of them, came at the free throw line. But you know what he still did? Filled out the stat sheet.
- [22:22]
B
He was.
- [22:22]
C
He was absolutely dominating in the RA department. More than nine and a half rebounds plus assists. You give out Wemby less than on the ra. I'm going to go less than just the R on less than 12 and a half on the rebounds for Wemby. You're right. This guy could give us another, you know, 24 rebound game or 17 rebound game. It's not trending that way. They found an answer for him a little bit in the middle in terms of specifically the glass. Less than 12 1/2 rebounds on Wemby, my final leg again, kind of correlated. You're looking less than on Shea. I'm going to go more than on Jared McCain. 12 and a half points. Jared McCain. We're taking more than I think again, role players at home. Sure, there's an Alex Caruso component. Maybe Jalen Williams looks better. It's hard to believe that after what we saw in game six, I think Jared McCain is going to continue to be a walking bucket. So for me, Again, that's Jared McCain more than 12 and a half rebounds. Pardon me. More than 12 and a half points. Victor Wembanyama less than 12 and a half rebounds. And De' Aaron Fox more than nine and a half rebounds, plus assists.
- [23:37]
B
Yeah, we do flexible here because I'm a wuss and don't feel like going for the power play. But if you hit, if you do flex play like I do, if you hit two out of three, you get your money back. If you hit three out of three, three extra money. It's pretty simple. And then in terms of getting your money, it couldn't be any easier. Use your bank account, your debit card, Venmo, whatever works for you, works for us. And then make sure you're, you're locked in your picks because if it's going well, you might be able to cash out early. I didn't do that one time and it cost me dearly. Don't cash out. Yeah, yeah, I know. But make sure you take a look at your len.
- [24:07]
A
They may be.
- [24:08]
C
Maybe you're lucky.
- [24:09]
B
Maybe you're lucky. I'm not. I'm certainly not. So. But just take a look. That's all I'm saying.
- [24:13]
C
So download the prize picks app. Do it today. Do it while you're listening to this show. Use the promo code. CLNs get fifty dollars in lineups after playing your first five dollar lineup. That is code. CLNs get fifty bucks in lineups after playing your first for only five dollars. Back to the show. Thanks to our friends at prize picks. We're back here with Cedric Maxwell, of course, talking about this offseason for the Boston Celtics. What should happen, what needs to happen. Categorize it however you want. Now Max here obviously is, is not a believer, not a proponent of trading Jaylen Brown.
- [24:49]
A
Keep the Jays together.
- [24:51]
C
Other people that we've had on this show in recent weeks are more open to it, depending on the package anyway, depending on the return.
- [24:57]
A
But let me, let me ask you this. What, what package are we talking about? Well, are we, are we just talking about, are we Talking about Giannis. Is that the package you're talking about?
- [25:10]
C
Oh, it's one.
- [25:13]
A
What other packages out there that you see that you could say, what man doing that? Who. Who. What other name do you see? I'm just curious because I know some of these other, you know, your, your viewers and some of your other people have been on, have talked about other ways. What way is that?
- [25:31]
C
Yeah, I mean, it's, it's ev. We text about it all the time. It's getting into the ESPN trade machine, right. And trying to figure out other things that work. It's, you know, which teams. Like, I, I don't think this will happen, but again, I'll, I'll throw it out. The Cavaliers are, you know, obviously coming off of a disappointing series against the Knicks.
- [25:54]
A
Hold, before you say that. Did the Cavaliers loot that, lose that series? Because analytically. Their coach is still talking about that, but I just had to put that in.
- [26:08]
C
But go ahead and look, I'm glad that Kenny Atkinson kept his job, by the way, because that's a roster problem. That's not a coach problem. As far as I see it, there is a universe. I don't even, I won't even call it likely, but let's just say it's plausible that the Cavs decide they're going to move on from Evan Mobley because they can net, you know, a solid return. If there was an Evan Mobley. Jalen Brown package. You're improving your front court. Obviously, that's another wing score that goes there to support Mitchell, who clearly isn't a number one. James Harden, who most people expect is going to get resigned, but he's going to be 37 year old, years old. That's, that's one option, you know, other people have talked about. Can you spin off Jaylen and you get multiple pieces. I'm trying to think of like a, a good example.
- [27:02]
B
Portland for Jeremy Grant and Tamani Kamara. Is like that doing it for you?
- [27:08]
A
No, it doesn't do it for you.
- [27:09]
C
But I suppose my point here is there's only one version of a Jaylen Brown trade, as far as I see it, that brings you back the better player, which is Giannis.
- [27:20]
A
Okay, there we go. Okay.
- [27:22]
C
In any other version of a Jalen Brown trade, you are improving maybe the totality of the roster, but the best player in the deal is going out, so you can make the case. And I, I don't know how Brad and Mike Zarin and all those guys are thinking about this. I have no idea. You know, like people Thought. And it's not the same because, you know, baseball's an individual sport and basketball more of a team sport where talent absolutely matters first and foremost. But I've made this comparison before. Forgive me if you don't think it's a great one, but, oh, four, when the Red Sox, you know, trade away Nomar Garcia para, granted he was disgruntled and unhappy and all that, but clearly the best player going out and they bring in, you know, Orlando Cabrera and Doug Man Cavic and guys like that, and it helped them win. It helped them get over the top. You know, is there a basketball version of trading away Jalen Brown, replacing him in the aggregate to go all Moneyball with you and that makes your roster better and deeper and more financially sound? I have no idea, Max. But these are the things obviously that Brad and company are having to assess here this offseason.
- [28:41]
A
The Mobley. The Mobley deal is interesting because Mobley is an outstanding young basketball player. I like him defensively. I've only seen him grow more offensively. But you still gotta give me more than that. If you're talking about Jaylen Brown. Jaylen Brown was a. Possibly one of the top five players in the NBA this year. One point he, he did make the statement. He said, I'm the best all around player in the NBA. And wow. I said, man, that's. And then he looked over, he said, well, other than Victor, you know, Victor the alien, he said, that's completely different. That's off the, that's off the tracks there. But if you think about who Jalen Brown is and what he's done,
- [29:31]
B
you
- [29:31]
A
know, he is, he's complex. He's very complex. When you think about. Here's a guy who, and I've talked to people around him and he's different in a way that he's not moved by money. And in that way, what I mean is, yeah, he wants to make money. But when have we seen Jalen Brown on the commercial? When did that. Nike wanted to tell you that's because
- [29:54]
C
he can't get a deal.
- [29:56]
A
Yeah, right.
- [29:57]
C
Sure.
- [29:57]
A
You can't get a deal. Sure, Jalen Brown can't get one deal at all. But in. The reason Jalen is so difficult is because some of his stances. Why was he on the all. Why wasn't he on the Olympic team?
- [30:11]
B
Oh, man,
- [30:14]
A
let me. I don't have any Nikes in here. I'm looking for a pair. But, you know, here's a guy who, you know, spit in the face of Nike. So there's some complications with him that come along with his brilliance and genius that you know that, that defy logic.
- [30:33]
B
Does he remind you of anybody that you played with in terms of talent, in terms of intelligence impacting the community? Because you know, as you sit here and part of the trading Jalen discussion, you have to factor in the history you have with this guy. Like, you know, Cedric, you've had a front. Well from the corner. I still have a problem with where they put you guys, but you've had a corner row seat to watch Jalen Brown grow up as a kid, to watch him as a 19 year old with a flat top come in and turn out to this extremely intelligent impacts his community in a huge way. I mean physically, the guy he was when he walked in the league, the guy is now are two different people. He is just way bigger.
- [31:18]
C
Oh, look at Tatum side by side from what he was.
- [31:21]
B
That's also fair. Does he remind you of anybody that maybe you played with your like, you know, so we can look and say hey, this happened in the past. This guy was X, Y and Z. This is why you don't want to let a guy like that get away because of other things. I'm just curious.
- [31:35]
A
There's not one guy that I've been around that I played with that reminds me of, of Brown. Is Larry Bird like the greatest, one of the greatest players that you know, ever? Yes, he is. Was he like Brown in the sense that. No, but Larry did not go in the community. Larry did not want to. Larry was not that kind of guy. Getting out, doing those kind of things. Jalen is, is unique in the fact that he is vested in the community. He. He's vested in his, his blackness. When you think about him wanting, saying, you know, I want to. I want Boston become the black Wall Street. You know certain parts of it that to me those are, those are things that are so far away from basketball that I never even thought about, but I never had those kind of resources. And for. For him to say that Brown could not get a commercial that to me is. Is stupid. It's just. It just stupid. And you know what? Like I said, I love the fact that the one tweet, one tweet that I. One thing I, I saw that Brown said when he said to speaking open over getting the ESPN and going before Steve Nices. Who the hell do you think he is, John Gotti? He can go out to get all this damn information. I'm like whoa, I wish I could have thought it out. I was like Cool.
- [33:06]
C
It's a mobster.
- [33:07]
A
Yeah, it was a. Cool. It was a cool line. And perking them to go back and forth with this thing. I mean, it's just. It's. It's bizarre to me. It. It really is bizarre.
- [33:18]
C
My favorite was the Stephen A, Stephen B, Stephen C. That was the one that I liked. But so Max, I mean, you tell me if. If they're running it back with the Jays, which again, I have no problem with that.
- [33:32]
A
I'm not healthy Tatum healthy Tatums.
- [33:38]
C
What ideally are you putting around them? What. What is missing from a team that obviously is. Is steps away? Is. Is not on, you know, certain. Say what you want about the Knicks, definitely not on the OKC San Antonio level.
- [33:53]
A
What pieces do you look at? I think Kay, they had an outstanding year. Matter of fact, it's so funny, they came to me a couple of days before the season ended and told me, you know, Keita broke your field goal percentage record, which has been around for the last 40 something years. I was like, damn. And I went up and laughed at. But I think that he had an outstanding year. But you're gonna have to get bigger in the paint. And I don't know where you have bigger people in the paint. Mobley would be outstanding. When you think about bringing a long athletic body, things he's able to do. How about this one? You say, could you get Mobley and Jared Allen, would that be. Would that move a little bit? You have a defender and a big body. If you think about that for Cleveland, with those numbers, possible. I just think that I. I just think there's too many ways to this. Alpha a year where he looked to be. He got a lot of things back. Derrick White did not have a good shooting year. I think they need other pieces scoring which are dead red. But. But I mean, Joe got so much out of that team. I mean, these were guys that competed the shivers of the world played. I mean, these guys, I love watching them this year. I love the way they competed. Joe Missoula and I talked to him about this. We were talking about a player that, that I knew. And I said, joe, what do you think about this player? And he said, yeah, he's okay. I said, well, what. What was it then you like? He said, he doesn't have a sense of urgency. One thing that Joe Missoula preached about is his players had to have a sense of urgency, life or death. And most of those guys you saw, they were a better regular season team than they were a playoff team. When you meet somebody in seven games. So, yeah, there, there has to be some more. More beef, better shooting in the playoffs. Pritchard's a small guard. You need a bigger guard. Pritchard was really good this year. Outstanding. But there was just, yeah, there was something that you looked at the eye test at the very end of the day, said, yeah, they need some more, they need some more ammo. And would Tatum bend the ammo that you needed if he was healthy?
- [36:43]
B
Could have been. I, I just find that interesting of, you know, Joe looking for senses of urgency and then, I don't know. I, I guess I was not thrilled with the way that some of the rotations came out during that series at seven gamers and for him to throw. I'm not saying Joe's an excellent coach. He knows way more about basketball than I do and, and well deserved coach of the year, which I'm sure we're gonna, we're gonna obviously talk about in a second. But the guys that had urgency on this team, I felt like were Shireman. Hugo would come in and play with a sense of urgency because I think he's understood that if I don't do something right, I'm not gonna play. You know, Walsh a little bit. I feel like some of the guys that played with urgency this year were some of the guys that were glued to the bench in game seven when they were trying to close out Philadelphia.
- [37:38]
A
Well, how about the fact. How about he started a couple of the guys that you talked about, he started a couple of those guys. I mean, you, your, your first. Who, who started that game? He, he. I would have said Ron Harper. That was, that one surprised me. But when you start thinking about some of the other guys that might have started in that game, I mean, I think he rolled the dice. He didn't. And he didn't keep his eyes out long. He, you know, he took him out of the game. If they didn't play, if they weren't playing well, and the fact that they had an opportunity to win that game late, all they had to do is hit a shot. If they got back and went ahead of Philadelphia, now how we would we have felt if they played the Knicks, and the Knicks end up beating the hell out of you, like this year, I'm, I'm gonna, I, I am the biggest cheerleader right now for the Western Conference because I cannot stand the fact if the Knicks win this thing, this is going to be. I, I don't know if we can, I don't know if the world's big enough right now. If the New York Knicks win the NBA championship because their fans are gloating. They're. They're gloating right now and they should. They put. They play well enough to do that. But that fan base, they have me looking at Larry Johnson sitting there. You know, Patrick Ewing said, all these guys not even playing. John Stars, John Starks is damn near court almost every time I'm like, yo, dude, you're not playing. But I understand that their love, hell, they haven't won the championship since my senior year in High School, 1973. So I can understand that they want to win. And would it be. I don't know, it possibly. It would be one of the greatest stories. I think we've seen them a long time, the NBA. If the Knicks were to win it. I don't think they will.
- [39:40]
C
Yeah, I don't think they will either. But if the.
- [39:42]
A
They do.
- [39:42]
C
I think there's a. I mean, you're more of a historian than I am, obviously, but I think there's a strong case to be made that this would be the greatest Knicks team of all time.
- [39:53]
A
That for people jumping off, oh my God, it just would be. People just would be just going crazy if the Knicks absolutely wanted to see the excitement and to see the, the. What's the word? I want to use the word arrogance. When their fans come to buildings now, it's just they, they go in and they bump. They bombarded Philly, they bombarded, you know, Cleveland and it was. And, and they, they travel and not, dare I say this, they've traveled just like the Boston Celtics. Normally they've had that kind of arrogance. So maybe I'm just hating on them because of, you know, their success, but man, is it. I don't think I'd be able to live or none of us will be able to live if the fact that if they want it, I do want
- [40:43]
C
to get back to the NBA Finals and expectations and especially of course, who's coming out of the West. But Ed brought this up. It's certainly a worthy talking point. Joe Missoula, first time coach of the year. I've been saying all year, if not now, never. Because the things that he had to overcome collectively, that entire staff this season, in all likelihood, at least in Boston, he's just, excuse me, not going to be in a similar situation again. I mean, this was a team that, you know, we, we spoke about it going into the year. People didn't know. Is this a 45 win team? Is this a 25 win team? Are they a playoff team? Are they a lottery team? Who are they? What are they? They go out, they win 56 games dramatically over the regular season. They were incredible. And Joe Missoula, look, I mean, they're like, J.B. bickerstaff had a great year. You know, Mitch Johnson had a great year. You can point to different guys that had a great year, but if there was ever a time that Joe Missoula was going to win coach of the year, it was this year. And I think it was well deserved. I'm glad that he did. Obviously, I am a. A fan of Joe in a sea of people that, you know, think they want a title in spite of him and can't wait to get rid of him and all of that stuff.
- [42:01]
A
But now, is it. Is it because Joe Bazula is not, you know, he doesn't play the games like some of the coaches. Like, he's not. He's not. He's not Doc Rivers, where he is embracing everybody. He's not Frank Kona, who's a, you know, one. One of the. The good guys. You know, I. I've seen part of
- [42:23]
C
it, like, Bill Belichick didn't play the game, and nobody that.
- [42:27]
A
But. But when things went. But when things went bad, people were ready to get Bill Belichick out of here.
- [42:32]
B
Sure, they.
- [42:33]
A
They. And. And I think Joe Missoula would be on that same train. But he's winning right now. I mean, he's given. And I laugh because I said they. They've given them. Sometime reporters have given. Given them layups. I think it was the year the Celtics played. We're playing in the championship against. I wonder what's. Yeah. Against the Mavericks. And they said he was going. There were two black. First time two black coaches were going against each other. This was a layup. And at that point, if you. Joe Missouri turned around and said, you know, I'm really proud of my heritage. I'm, you know, you know, I really think this is super. And Jumbo Zulu turns around and says, are either one of them Christians? And I, I was like, what. What did he say? And it just. He wants that. He is so contrary to the media and he's so steadfast and who he is. It's like I see Joe Missoula sometimes when he pulls in at the airport at Hanscomore we at. And he pulls in with a minivan. He has a minivan. A freaking minivan. He's driving up in a minivan. Multiple millions of dollars. He park those peons. He doesn't park where the Players park, but he parks where we park it. And it's just. It just shows me who he is at his very core. And that's why I happen to like him so much as a person. He's become one of my all time favorite coaches.
- [44:11]
B
Do you agree with Joe that it should be a staff award considering, you know, it's not just Joe Missoula that's pressing all the right buttons here, that it's everybody in the staff kind of pitching in to kind of turn this thing around or should Joe.
- [44:23]
A
I'm sorry, I'm sorry. It is, it is a staff award. I don't care how it works out. You know, his staff is outstanding because they don't have it up there as a staff award, to me is. It's like. I mean, I was talking to Grandy, my broadcast partner, and scale, they came up this new system of point scoring that if you score more point, not. Not the average the way people have gone over the years, like if you average 32 points a game, you lead scored the NBA. Him and Scout came up with this formula where they said that the person that scores the most points. Yeah, dude, those aren't. The NBA has been going with this average for as long as they've been around. So let them have that. Don't try to change the system. And, you know, trying to put this whole, you know, Jalen Brown scored more points. They, they still go with the average. Was he outstanding? Yes, he was outstanding. Whoever scored points. But that to me is almost ridiculous.
- [45:25]
B
I mean, I agree with that. I think, I think, I think it's nice that Joe is giving his staff a lot of credit for this award. I, I don't, I don't remember a lot of guys going out of their way like this to make this sort of a thing. And I, And I do think Joe understands. I think the one thing that Joe does understand. I think Joe understands that he's a coach. You can only do so much, but the player is the reason why you win. And he's always adamant about giving the players credit first before anybody else. I think Joe just kind of understands how people are properly motivated. And I think if you're.
- [45:57]
A
Yeah, yeah. Joe deflects. He deflects away from him. You know, if the sunlight is on him, he is getting the umbrella. Joe just does not like to be in that spotlight. And, and he does that intentionally. And I think if you look at him and the way he proceeds and the way he coaches, you know, he always, always wants to be like that. And that's who he is, and we have to accept that as that.
- [46:26]
C
Max, we got about 10 more minutes with you. Let's shift gears to the West Finals, a series that, you know, it sort of feels like, you know, we're watching the NBA Finals in. In real time.
- [46:36]
B
Right.
- [46:36]
C
For those of us that want to believe, and all three of us are. Are certainly in this group, that the ultimate NBA Finals winner is going to come out of the West. These two teams, you know, it's like the Knicks are just waiting, biding their time to eventually get handled in theory, by one of these two teams. But the biggest advantage for New York is obviously one. The rest having about a week and a half off between games, but also this war of attrition of these two elite, incredible base jam monstars, like teams that are just beating the crap out of each other. You know, you've got Jalen Williams, who is not close to himself, shouldn't have even played in his most recent game. A.J. mitchell, who's a bucket getter, who has been out for OKC as well.
- [47:22]
A
Sga.
- [47:23]
C
Not that he's hurt, but he's been forced to play a different way by the Spurs. More of a facilitator than he is a scorer, though he's still the free throw merchant, getting himself to the line a million times. And then on the other side for San Antonio, the team that personally I am rooting for. I would love for Wemby to ascend to that level this year and for it to happen for our eyes. But you have got, you know, Harper's not quite right. Fox clearly not quite right. Other guys banged up. So that, again, is the argument for New York even having a chance is that these two teams are so battered. But before we get there, who comes out of Game 7 in OKC? Did the defending champs get this done, or does San Antonio come back from down three, two.
- [48:09]
A
That. Who. I would hate to, you know, you know, somebody preach a life on that one. That is going to be. I mean, McCain has been shooting out of his ass. Here's a. Here's a guy that was with Philly. Yeah. That Philly traded. That essentially threw him away. And he's come in. OKC has this multitude of sports. Can. If you're. If you're San Antonio, can you beat them again in okc where it's the biggest college atmosphere?
- [48:46]
C
I don't think we lost Max, but he'll. He'll jump right back in here and do our.
- [48:51]
A
Yeah.
- [48:52]
C
Join us again. All right, Max, we got you. We lost you for.
- [48:55]
A
Yeah, I think my Internet is screwed up. You guys can erase all that.
- [48:59]
C
I'm sure you're good. Don't worry.
- [49:01]
A
But it was it, it was it. Gosh, that college atmosphere they have in okc. I want to get the record. I want to with San Antonio, but in my heart, I believe that OK is going to win. And with all those won the ball. How has the bald eagle affected this game? I mean, the way he's played, he's just been.
- [49:37]
B
The bald eagle is what you're calling Caruso.
- [49:40]
A
That's what it, that's what they call him. That's what they. Excuse me. I'm not the only ones that said that. That's what they called Caruso. His nickname is the ball Eagle. If you look at it, I'm gonna,
- [49:57]
C
I'm gonna go to Basketball Reference. That's got every nickname imaginable, even the fake. Oh, my God.
- [50:02]
A
I'm sorry. He's been out. He's been out. Okay, let's, let's get a picture of a bald eagle and then let's get a picture of Caruso. Let's put it up.
- [50:12]
C
It's, it's, it's there. In fact, here are the Basketball Reference nickname.
- [50:16]
A
I, I'm, I'm sorry. And he is, he has been outstanding. He has been outstanding. You know, he's been shooting the lights out of the basketball mamba. Yeah. But I just, I just believe that. I think if I'm putting money on it, I'm gonna say San Antonio is going to be the team coming out of.
- [50:41]
B
Wow.
- [50:42]
A
The West.
- [50:42]
C
You're going with the dog.
- [50:46]
A
I, I, I'm going, I'm going with the champions. That's who I'm going with. I'm going with the champions. I'm going with the guys who have the experience. I said this before this series began. I didn't think, okay, I didn't think that San Antonio had the experience in these critical situations to come back and win. When they won that first game, when they won, and everybody said, oh, my God. But then what happened? Okay, See, bounce right back. They do what they do. They score the basketball. They defend like son of a guns. And we have the experience from people like Caruso and, and other Hartenstein and, and, you know, and they're willing to beat the hell out of you. They, they don't, they don't give a damn. And I think because of that, I give them the nod. And then when they play against the Knicks, I give them even more of a nod because I think they have too many shooters. Hartenstein is gonna, he is gonna beat that. Oh, my God, he's gonna be like, beating the drum. And the fact that Hardenstein played for the Knicks before, he knows some of the things that the Knicks want to do. Hardenstein is going to be a, a thorn in their side with all the other pieces they have.
- [52:00]
B
Yeah, I, I, I'm on Team spurs with Kaufman for sure. I just think some of the, the younger guys play way smarter than I, I know they have a ton of turnovers, but you're also playing, as you said, just a bunch of guys that are absolute dogs on defense. They're every guy they roll out there seems like is a plus defender. But I, I, the San Antonio team is, is wise beyond their years, I think. And I think they're a little bit more talented than we're giving them credit for.
- [52:25]
A
Evan, I cannot believe that you hadn't heard that nickname.
- [52:28]
B
That was the best dude. That was, I mean, I've, I've, maybe I haven't been paying enough attention to the actual. I've just been watching the game and not listening to Mike Tirico and Jamal Crawford.
- [52:41]
A
They've never, they've never said that. But I've heard so many people call him that when he's with the Lakers. They call him the ball Eagle.
- [52:48]
B
I don't, I don't watch Lakers games.
- [52:52]
A
Fakers. And then, then on top of that, what's going to happen? You guys have whispered that. What's going to happen with LeBron? Where's LeBron going? What's LeBron gonna do? Does he go, does he go back to, I mean, come on, guys, you
- [53:08]
C
gotta, he's not taking a discount to go back to Cleveland, so I would say that probably rules out the Cavs.
- [53:14]
A
Well, where's he going? Who's gonna pay him if you're the Lakers, You. A bunch of Laker fans I know said, no, no, no, we don't. We, that's not the direction that's going to move the needle for us. You know, when you, as long as you have OKC out there and San Antonio, who else is coming out of, who else is coming out of the West? Those teams right now are Juggernauts or Minnesota. Can they get it together? You know, people talked about Jokic being the best player in the, in the, in the world. They didn't even get out of the first round. So it's just, it's crazy to see. But, man, I'm gonna love to see this war that's going to Happen tomorrow.
- [53:55]
C
Real quick, before we sign off here with you, Max is. I've heard from so many people who are it. I don't want to say covered the NBA, but certainly watch and are big consumers of the NBA who just hate watching the Thunder. They, they hate, you know, SGA and the foul baiting.
- [54:15]
A
They hate.
- [54:15]
C
You know, they think some of their players are. Are, you know, like dort plays a dirty game. Hate the, you know, the, the just the general style, the way they conduct themselves, the watching their games. It's. It's a hate watch situation. People are rooting against OKC for no not failing to acknowledge how good they are and how deep they are. It's more just. This is not fun basketball to watch. I want this team to lose. How do you feel about okc?
- [54:43]
A
Do you remember Oakland Raiders? You remember what that, you know what their only sale attack. Just win, baby. Just win. And, and because of the way they play right now, because they're physical, because of the work, because of the way, you know, change the rules if you, you see that. And one thing that, you know, Jalen Brown got called for a lot was extending the arm when he drove towards the basket. And the guy with his shoulder, SGA does it in such a smoother way. He hits you with that shoulder. He gets enough separation, goes back for the jump shot. And in fact, if you try to challenge, he's waiting for you and jumps into you and gets free throws. The game, he's. He's taking the game and he's making it this whole rocket science. When you watch him offensively, he isn't the biggest guy in the world, but boy, he gets to his positions, he shoots, he knocks shots down. His quickness, his handle. He's fun to watch. And people who don't like to watch them, they don't like professional basketball because the way they defend the basketball, the way they run their basketball IQ to me, yeah, San Antonio, when you see some of the things they're able to. They. They're able to do fantastic. But man, they just play it the right they that just win. Just win, baby. Just win.
- [56:09]
C
All right, Cedric Maxwell, again, good friend of this program, part of the clns family, hosts the Cedric Maxwell podcast. He is, you know, former NBA Finals mvp, a former Celtic, longtime member of the broadcast, along as he mentioned Sean Grandy, who we always love having on the show as well. In fact, Max, I was texting Grandy recently and I said, hey, you know, random question. Given the fact that you guys have worked together as long as you Have. But have you and Max ever, you know, done a, like, gone. Not had your own podcast, but I mean, you kind of have that every night, right? But have you ever gone on a podcast together? And he's like, believe it or not, we. We did it once for the Celtics.
- [56:53]
A
And.
- [56:53]
C
And that's it. I was like, well, hell, we need to get both you guys on.
- [56:57]
A
I'm not doing that. I'm not doing that. No, no. Because Sean answers my question and his question. If you ask me a question, Sean will answer my question and ask his question. So what he's gonna. If you ask me the question first, what he's gonna do, you ask him the next question. He's gonna go back to my question. Doc, you the one that one up. And then finally get back to the question you asked him. So we do 100 games a year, and we've done 20 years together. So for us to go out and do a podcast, I think would be a little redundant. I think that I'm good right now. We love having them.
- [57:38]
C
And look forward to the next one. As this offseason comes into focus. And make sure you're paying attention to the Celtics. The Cedric Maxwell podcast, as well as that returns from its hiatus and gets you ready with an extensive NBA Finals preview, as that is on the horizon. But check out all the great Celtics content across the CLNS Media family on the YouTube page. We are on the all access page specifically. Rate review subscribe to the audio version. Max, always a pleasure.