679: What the Knicks Can Teach the Celtics About Team Building w/ Seth Landman

Summary

Celtics Beat Episode 679: "What the Knicks Can Teach the Celtics About Team Building"

Host: Adam Kaufman (with Evan Valenti)
Guest: Seth Landman
Date: June 5, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Adam Kaufman and Evan Valenti are joined by NBA analyst Seth Landman to discuss the Boston Celtics’ roster strategy in the post-supermax era—using the New York Knicks’ recent surge as a blueprint. They dive into the limitations of the "two-star" approach under the new CBA, the nuances of team-building now that the salary cap landscape has shifted, and why internal development and flexibility matter more than ever. The conversation also covers persistent rumors about trading Jalen Brown, pros and cons of a potential Giannis pursuit, and what the Celtics need to do this summer to remain in the championship hunt.

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Main Themes & Purpose

• Exploring lessons the Celtics can draw from the Knicks’ steady rise and chemistry
• Evaluating the sustainability of the "two-supermax" roster model under the new NBA CBA
• Assessing the core duo of Jayson Tatum and Jalen Brown: Is it time to trade Jalen?
• Discussing realistic pathways for retooling the Celtics for Banner 19

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Knicks' Team-Building as a Model

Timestamp: 03:54 – 06:40

• Seth’s Key Takeaway: The Knicks’ surprising Game 1 Finals win is a testament to “a team slowly learning how to play better together over time.”
• Chemistry and “quick, smart decisions together in the moment” are often undervalued but have fueled New York’s success.
• Seth draws a contrast: “The Knicks won that game because their players are smart together and know how to play together … they become more than the sum of their parts. And it made me think about the Celtics, who don’t really do that … who basically have been winning on talent, I think, for a bunch of years now.” (05:19, Seth Landman)

2. Celtics’ Slow Decision-Making: Who’s to Blame?

Timestamp: 06:40 – 08:20

• Seth points to Jalen Brown: “If there’s one player who’s a little bit, like, let me hold the ball and, like, figure out who I’m going to attack … I don’t think he’s a quick decision-maker or, like, a snappy mover of the ball.”
• Tatum has improved in this area; Jalen lags behind.

3. Viability of Two Supermax Stars in the CBA’s Second Apron Era

Timestamp: 08:20 – 13:23

• The second apron is dramatically reshaping possibilities for roster construction.
• “There’s no more three-star teams anymore. That’s over. That’s not going to be possible in the second apron era.” (07:09, Seth Landman paraphrasing Stan Van Gundy)
• The Celtics may need to build exclusively around Tatum, not two co-stars.

4. Celtics’ Path Forward—Brad Stevens’ Calculus

Timestamp: 08:41 – 09:59

• Brad Stevens and the front office likely recognize the limitations of two supermax salaries.
• “They’re not going to trade Jalen in a move that makes them worse on the court … but I would say, gun to my head, Brad probably sees the expediency of thinking about trading Jalen Brown.” (09:53, Seth)

5. Financial Details: Comparing Celtics and Knicks Cap Outlooks

Timestamp: 10:04 – 13:23

• Knicks’ star contracts are substantial, but Boston’s “two Jays” will soon exceed $120M—more than the Knicks’ top four earners combined.
• “There’s a huge difference between players on big contracts and players on super max contracts.” (13:23, Seth)

6. Depth and Roster Construction Challenges

Timestamp: 16:34 – 19:26

• Celtics have an imbalanced salary structure: a “handful of guys that made a ton, then a bunch of guys that made nothing,” which complicates trades.
• “They never go hunting for your average guy … always hunting for big game.” (16:53, Evan)
• The Celtics’ best trade in recent seasons was for Derrick White—a “middle contract” player.

7. The Giannis Question: Hype vs. Reality

Timestamp: 23:47 – 29:46

• Media suggests a Celtics-Giannis pairing, but it’s “impossible to decipher what is real.” There’s confusion and conflicting reports about Boston’s true intentions.

• Adam Kaufman: “The only thing that I know for certain is Boston’s probably not in on any of these guys because Brad operates in the shadows.” (28:05)

• On Giannis vs. Jalen:

  • “Would you rather the Celtics play with Giannis than Jalen? I think you have a better chance, yes. But you have a shorter runway with Giannis.” (29:13–29:21, Adam)

• Trade wouldn’t help with depth or the cap. Both Giannis (aging, injuries) and Jalen (extension looming) come with future contractual risks.

8. Trading Jalen Brown: Why, When, and For What?

Timestamp: 36:50 – 41:41

• Seth’s position: It’s time for the Celtics to trade Jalen, not out of dislike, but for roster balance and future flexibility.
• Ideal return: “I want two players … cost-controlled on long-term deals … ideally, a shooter and a versatile defensive big, plus some future draft picks.” (38:06, Seth)
• Seth mentions Trey Murphy as an example of a “perfect target” for Boston.

9. Depth Over Star Power—A Knicks Lesson

Timestamp: 41:41 – 46:24

• Seth: “If you can be a 50–55 win team for three or four years in a row, maybe you catch lightning in a bottle.”
• Knicks have 6–7 quality players with mid-tier deals, providing better flexibility than two supermax stars.

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Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “The Knicks won that game because their players are smart together and know how to play together … they become more than the sum of their parts…”
  (05:19, Seth Landman)

• On Jalen Brown:
  “I don’t think he’s, like, a quick decision-maker or, like, you know, a snappy mover of the ball.”
  (06:44, Seth Landman)

• On the CBA Era:
  “I think the real issue is having two Supermax guys on one roster.”
  (15:54, Seth Landman)

• On Derrick White:
  “Years of statistical evidence … Derrick White comes out as like one of the 15 best players in the league and Jalen Brown looks mediocre.”
  (47:08, Seth)

• On Fans Reacting to Trading Jalen Brown:
  “Any trade that Brad makes, if he does involving Jaylen Brown, that doesn’t involve Giannis and even some that do, is going to be viewed as a bad trade … There is nobody out there … who will not condemn Brad … when you are getting even a collection of inferior players in return.”
  (44:08, Adam Kaufman)

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NBA Finals Segment: Knicks vs. Spurs Takeaways

Timestamp: 50:14 – 62:29

• Host skepticism that the Knicks can win the series—“I never truly considered … the Knicks Winning this series.” (50:14, Adam)
• Seth: Karl-Anthony Towns as Finals X-Factor
  “He had Victor Wembanyama totally shook … He was absolutely tremendous. It’s like the best defensive game maybe I’ve ever seen him play.” (54:21, Seth)
• Knicks’ rotation flexibility and unheralded contributors (e.g., Josh Hart and Deuce McBride) are vital, showing team-building depth.
• All panelists agree: If Towns stays at this level, the Knicks can pull off a shocker.
• Finals Predictions:
  • Seth: Spurs in 5
  • Evan: Spurs in 6
  • Adam: Spurs in 6

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Notable Timestamps for Major Segments

| Topic | Speaker | Timestamp (MM:SS) | |:---|:---|:---| | Knicks’ “more than sum of parts” lesson | Seth | 05:19 | | Jalen Brown as main culprit of slow decisions | Seth | 06:44 | | No more three-star teams in second apron era | Seth (via Stan Van Gundy) | 07:09 | | Brad Stevens’ likely thinking | Seth | 09:53 | | Comparing Knicks vs. Celtics cap situations | Seth | 13:23 | | Celtics’ history of “big game” trade hunting | Evan | 16:53 | | Best Celtics trade: Derrick White’s impact | All | 17:25–18:11 | | Adam’s skepticism on rumors | Adam | 28:05 | | Giannis vs. Jalen debate | Adam, Seth | 29:13–29:21 | | What Seth wants in a Jalen trade | Seth | 38:06 | | Depth versus star power—Knicks model | Seth | 41:41 | | The analytics case for Derrick White | Seth | 47:08 | | NBA Finals Game 1 Towns turnaround | Seth | 54:21 |

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Tone & Style

• Candid, analytically driven, occasionally irreverent.
• Panelists are willing to challenge front-office decisions and popular narratives, relying heavily on evidence from both statistics ("all-in" metrics) and recent history.
• Friendly banter: e.g., Gumby shirt jokes and reliving fans’ reactions to trades.

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Summary for Non-Listeners

This episode is a deep-dive into how the Celtics must adapt in a shifting NBA landscape, learning from the Knicks’ successful chemistry and team-building approach. Seth Landman and the hosts dissect the flaws in Boston’s current high-end star model, highlighting why depth, smart contracts, and internal improvement are now critical to lasting contention. While trade rumors swirl, especially around Jalen Brown and Giannis, the show goes beyond the headline names to address how the salary cap and second apron limit old-school roster-building. The lively debate is punctuated by NBA Finals impressions and a critical, always-honest assessment of Celtics’ options for the future. If you’re uneasy about the supermax era, ready for something new, or just want to understand how contender rosters are evolving in real time—this is a must-listen recap.

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Memorable Quote to Close:
“You can be a 50–55 win team for three or four years in a row. Maybe you catch lightning in a bottle ... and suddenly you have a shot at winning the title. That’s another reason for moving away from this two supermax star model into something else.” (41:41, Seth Landman)

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For questions, feedback, or to join the ongoing debate, connect at @AdamMKaufman, drop YouTube comments, or interact via CLNS All Access. Go Spurs!

Transcript

[Adam Kaufman]

Whether you're watching your favorite NBA team

[Seth Landman]

at the arena, the bar or hanging

[Adam Kaufman]

at home, grab an ice cold Michelob

[Evan Valenti]

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[Adam Kaufman]

Stock up today and watch your team drop buckets with a bucket full of

[Evan Valenti]

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[Adam Kaufman]

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[Evan Valenti]

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[Seth Landman]

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[Evan Valenti]

do more together this Father's Day with

[Seth Landman]

help from the Home Depot. Exclusions apply. Seehomedepot.com Pricematch for details.

[Adam Kaufman]

This is what everyone's talking about.

[Seth Landman]

Everything's on the table.

[Adam Kaufman]

This is what champions come to take. This is what everyone came to see.

[Seth Landman]

No do overs.

[Adam Kaufman]

No second chances. No more Mr. Nice Guy.

[Seth Landman]

This is winner take all

[Adam Kaufman]

the NBA Finals Continue on ABC and the ESPN

[Seth Landman]

app

[Adam Kaufman]

today is Friday, June 5th and this is Celtics Beat on CLNS Media, the leading online provider of audio video coverage of the Boston Celtics. I'm Adam Kaufman. Episode 679 features our good buddy Seth Landman.

[Evan Valenti]

And I'm Evan Valenti. And today's show is powered by Prize Fix. Prize Fix is the official daily Fantasy partner of CLNS Media. Download the app today, use the promo code CLNS and get 50 in lineups when you play. $5.

[Adam Kaufman]

Hey everybody. Welcome to June. It is Celtics Feet here on the CLNS Media Network. Great to have you here with us of course with M. Valenti, I'm Adam Kaufman. We are the mainstays, our friend Seth Landman joining us today. We remind you before we get into the nitty gritty of everything, check out Celtics Beat the video version on the Celtics All Access page on the CLNS YouTube page or if you'd prefer rate review, subscribe to the audio version wherever you get your podcast. But either way, comment, share your thoughts. Lord knows you shared a lot of thoughts when we had Cedric Maxwell on with us last week. We appreciate all of those. A lot of good positivity surrounding Max as well. Even got some text commentary surrounding that show. I will not divulge from who but Just know there are people out there that are paying attention to this show. Seth, you're probably not one of them, though. I don't think you're an avid listener of the program, so it's good to have you here with us. You can catch up on everything that we have been talking about, which is

[Evan Valenti]

mainly there's literally dozens of us, what to do, right?

[Adam Kaufman]

Where to send Jalen if he's going to be traded at all. The Giannis element, other guys replacing Jalen in the aggregate, as I like to say, going all Billy Bean. Then, of course, NBA Finals are underway, and I don't know, I don't know, team of destiny type stuff going on with this New York Knicks squad after coming back to take game one in San Antonio and steal home court advantage, at least for now. So it's all on the table. We start with the Cs, but really we start with the pleasantries.

[Evan Valenti]

How are you?

[Seth Landman]

I'm doing well.

[Adam Kaufman]

Good.

[Seth Landman]

I did not see the Knicks winning game one of the series. So I'm. I'm like, I'm sort of coming to terms with the new basketball world here.

[Adam Kaufman]

Yeah, it's pretty wild.

[Evan Valenti]

Still a long way to go. We're not. This New Year's is not over yet.

[Seth Landman]

No, it's a long way to go. But wait, can I actually. Can I bring this around to the Celtics right away, actually. Okay, so here's what I found myself thinking about. About this, like, about Game one. So I was like, you know, I'm listening to all these podcasts, people talking about how the Knicks are good. Like, everyone giving the Knicks a lot of credit, acting like it's going to be a close series. I felt like this was, like, completely stupid. I'm like, spurs and four. You know, obviously I've been proven wrong immediately by this series. So I was sort of thinking about, like, what, you know, what. What thing have I forgotten yet again? Like, what lesson do I need to learn that I haven't learned yet? I really think that the thing that it's almost impossible to account for is a team slowly learning how to play better together over time. And it's like the thing we never want to account for because it's basically impossible to account for. You can't, like, you can't predict it happening necessarily. It doesn't happen. With tons of teams that stay together for a long time, they go the other way. They get worse over time. Coaches wear out their welcome, all kinds of stuff. The Knicks won that game because their players are smart together and know how to play together and read the game together, and there they become more than the sum of their parts as a result. And it made me think about the Celtics, who don't really do that, who, like, even when they won, who basically have been winning on talent, I think, for a bunch of years now.

[Adam Kaufman]

I thought this was setting up to be a Celtics compliment about how long the Jays have been together. No.

[Seth Landman]

So. No.

[Adam Kaufman]

To play together.

[Seth Landman]

No. Where I'm going with this is that I think it's actually time to, like, the. The. Like, you brought up Billy Bean a couple minutes ago and, like, the. The, like. So the question becomes, what is the how. How did they always put it with the Moneyball thing? Like, what is the. The thing that people are not valuing, that we should value that that is being, like, undervalued by everyone else. I think it's just. It's like the Derek White thing I always find myself talking about. It's just, like, the ability for a group of players to make quick decisions together in the moment. Quick, smart decisions. And I. I just feel like maybe I've had enough of, like,

[Adam Kaufman]

slow decision making.

[Seth Landman]

Yeah. Slow decision making. And I'm ready for. I'm ready for something new with this group. I think maybe they have kind of, like, hit a wall in terms of their ability to be more than the sum of their parts together.

[Evan Valenti]

So who's the main culprit of slow decision making with the Celtics?

[Seth Landman]

On the Celtics? I would say it's Jalen. I would say it's Jalen. Like, if there's one player who's a little bit, like, let me hold the ball and, like, figure out who I'm going to attack and, like, try to isolate. I think we've complained about it with Tatum in the past, but I think actually Tatum's kind of. We've seen him improve a lot in that regard. Be willing to get off the ball, Be willing to let the offense kind of run. I think, you know, Jalen is so dominant against certain matchups. He's. He's. He's great at the things he's great at. I don't think he's, like, a quick decision maker or, like, you know, a snappy mover of the ball. And so I don't know. That's one piece of it. The other piece that I've found myself thinking about is just like. Like, I don't know. There's going to be all these debates about, like, what can. What kind of team can you build in the second apron era? Like, can you have I heard Stan Van Gundy on Zach Lowe's podcast, I think today saying. Or was it him or someone. Anyway, Stan, someone was talking about you like there's no more three star teams anymore. That's over. That's not going to be possible in the second apron era. So if that's the case and if you acknowledge that you're not winning a title unless your best player is healthy anyway, I don't know, maybe. I think, I think the Celtics owe it to this team to like really see if they can build a team around Tatum that is only built with Tatum in mind, not with this like two headed star thing going on.

[Adam Kaufman]

What do you think Brad thinks and the basketball brass. I just use Brad as the figurehead but the basketball operations crew as, as

[Seth Landman]

an entity, what do I think he thinks about Jalen Brown?

[Adam Kaufman]

No, what do you think he thinks about the best way to build out a roster with hopes of winning? Banner 19.

[Seth Landman]

You know, it's a great question. My, my, my instinct would be that they are seeing the writing on the wall with the fact that these two guys make too much money together. That said, I don't think, you know, they're not going to trade Jalen in a move that makes them worse on the court. Sure. And so I think if they could get the right two or three players in return, I think that's something they would look at. I don't think they're going to make a trade where they bring in a player in return for Jalen who's making as much if not more money than Jalen. So I, I don't think it's going to be like a Jalen Briannis thing. Despite Brad talking about how he wants the team to get to the rim more. I don't think, I don't see that happening, especially given the other bigs on the roster. So I don't know. I mean, you know, that Trey Murphy thing keeps getting thrown around anyway. I think I, I guess I feel like if I had like gun to my head, I would say I think Brad probably sees the expediency of thinking about trading Jalen Brown. I don't know if it'll happen because it's always less likely that these things happen than that they don't happen where I'm having trouble.

[Evan Valenti]

Guys, hold on, hold on a minute. Yeah, hold on a minute. Hold on a minute. I want to keep, I want to keep the Knicks in mind here because.

[Seth Landman]

Yes.

[Evan Valenti]

What's unfolding living in front of us.

[Seth Landman]

Yes.

[Evan Valenti]

I, and I, I just think first off for the Knicks, this gets way harder next year. I just want everybody, unless they make some serious changes because they're, they're, they're payroll. I'm on spot track right now. Their payroll outline outlook for next year is way different. But at the moment they have Carl Anthony Towns at 53 million, OG Anunoby at 39 and a half, Jalen Brunson at 35, essentially, and Mikhail Bridges at 25. Part of the reason why this team is so good is because Cat has gone to some unbelievable level here and, and like in game one last night, or we should say, what's that? Wednesday night. Wednesday night is like, I, I just didn't expect to ever see this Carl Anthony Towns, like maybe in my life.

[Seth Landman]

It was incredible.

[Evan Valenti]

So it's, it's like another worldly experience here. And then if you look to next year, this roster gets way, way more expensive very quickly. Right? So I went through 25, 26 with some of their top end guys. Cat makes 57, OG makes 42 and a half. Jalen Brunson, probably the best, maybe one of the best bargains in basketball at 37.

[Seth Landman]

7.

[Evan Valenti]

Then the Kale Bridges goes to 33. 5 and Josh Hart goes to 21, essentially. So their cap outlook looks way different next year. I guess the internal improvement stuff is something that you can't really quantify, but given their salary cap structure, like it's. I think it's more about when you talk about building the team around the right people. Like the Jays are going to make a ton of money, but you can still build a team financially around those two guys. And you can, because you can't use San Antonio as an example. What they're doing at this moment is insane. Like, well, we've been.

[Adam Kaufman]

Contracts. That's the thing. Like even. Let's just say the Knicks win this and I hope it doesn't happen. I know that uev me like we're invested in San Antonio as well, but also I'm rooting for San Antonio, even taking the gambling aspect out of it. I just, I, I love watching this team. I've especially this year. But I enjoyed watching them when they were not as good, when last year they were like almost what, 25, 30 games worse. But this is. If you're San Antonio, you're an outlier to this because of what you're alluding to with everything going on contractually. But in today's NBA with this CBA as it exists now, team, I, I don't know, maybe teams don't really have Windows Anymore. It used to be like you've got a three, four, five year window teams don't you know? The Celtics are hoping to still have a window and it may require honestly getting rid of Jalen to extend that window. Contractually. The Thunder, everyone is like this is going to be a dynasty. And they go out. Injuries obviously played a big role in this, but they go out against the spurs and now they have all sorts of financial questions. Chet being, you know, paramount there that they're going to have to deal with. I just, I don't know that we're going to see true dynasties in this current era of the NBA anymore. It may be, I don't want to say dead, but anyway, I just want

[Seth Landman]

to push back a little.

[Adam Kaufman]

Please.

[Seth Landman]

Because I think there's a huge difference between players on big contracts and players on super max contracts. So I think if you add up Tatum and Brown for next year, it's almost 120 million for just those two guys. That's more money than the Knicks will be paying Brunson and Anobi. And Brunson and Anobi, Bridges and Hart altogether. I think if, unless I'm doing my math wrong anyway, it's probably. It's close. So that's four players instead. Like the Knicks players. Sure. The Knicks are. The Knicks might be in the second apron next year, but you can be in the second apron like if, if your roster is okay as it is, you can hang out in the second apron. The Celtics didn't get out of the second apron because being in the second apron is a non starter. The Celtics got out of the second apron because their guys were getting old and they didn't. I don't think they think they, they thought they could win another title with Porzingis, Holliday and Horford. Those guys were just past their prime. They were going to be getting worse. And so it's. It was time to move on. But part of the issue is that they have two players on these supermax deals. And I think that's the thing that you're going to see being a non starter. I think can I actually would like bet my life that OKC runs it back next year with Shay, Jdub and Chad. Like those guys, all three of them together next year. Actually it's not. And I forget what year Shay's. I can check real quick. But what year Shay's supermax goes into effect. But I believe this coming. Yeah, this coming season those three players make $123 million together again, that's barely more than the, than the two J's make now, that'll go up to 140 once, 145 or so one the following year once Shay Supermax kicks in. But that's. Then the cap has gone up another 10 million and the second apron's gone up another 15, probably. So I, I think, I, I, I think we want to conflate all these teams into one problem, but I actually think the real issue is having two Supermax guys on one roster.

[Evan Valenti]

Yeah. I mean, when you look at, you talk about The Jays, they're 58 and 56, like, respectively, you're looking at 114 million between two guys. And I mean, this is, this is sort of the, the question of, you know, can you build around two guys that take up 70 of your cap? I mean, they're gonna, they, they certainly went out and tried this year with all the, I mean, you look at Prichard's contract and Hauser's contract, those are the. And like, Derek White's the only other guy really making any money on this team. Everybody else is like, Sam Houser's 10, Pritchard seven. Everybody else is like two. It's the same problem that they had years ago.

[Adam Kaufman]

The roster's making like 12, $13 million, remember?

[Evan Valenti]

But they had this problem previously where, like, they have a bunch of guys that make a ton. This is like the Gordon Hayward, Kyrie Irving, like that stuff. They had a bunch of guys that made a ton of money and then a bunch of guys that made nothing. But when they wanted to go to make trades and they didn't have the guys in the middle.

[Adam Kaufman]

Yeah.

[Evan Valenti]

To really make up some of the sweet spots that they were like they were in. The Celtics credit, they never go hunting for your average guy. They're always hunting for, for big game. Like, they're in the trade. They're in the trade machine for Giannis because that's the type of guy they want to get to push them over the hump. You know, I love. He's a great player. I'm not saying Truman's a great player, but you're not hearing them going after, you know, a bunch of middling guys that make up $35 million. They're trying to go big game hunting.

[Seth Landman]

But what's the best trade the Celtics have made in the last, like, three or four seasons?

[Adam Kaufman]

Yeah, the guy on that middle contract,

[Seth Landman]

I would say it's Derek White.

[Adam Kaufman]

Yeah.

[Evan Valenti]

Well, with 30 million, like, is that really okay?

[Adam Kaufman]

It's a middle tier.

[Evan Valenti]

I mean, when they trade, when they traded it for him. Yes, yes, yes.

[Seth Landman]

Well, and, And I would argue, like, that is a guy who people thought. Thought of. Well, I think in the league, people knew how good Derrick White was, which is why there was like, when the Celtics trailed.

[Adam Kaufman]

Average fan.

[Seth Landman]

They're right. Which is why there was like, people were like, well, they gave up way too much. But I think, like, nobody thought Derek White was getting traded because everyone knew that the spurs valued him. But, I mean. Yeah, I don't know. I think, I think Danny, like, we're sort of like, we spent years like, under the reign of Danny Ainge, who never would have traded for a player like Derek White. Danny Ainge was doing what you're saying, Evan. I think like, the, the kind of like Danny Ange would be trying to get Giannis right now if he was running the Celtics. Whereas I think Brad has a different philosophy about this stuff. But again, you know, we. We saw them, like, go for this. Oh, the other thing that's worth mentioning here is, like, you have to have. You're. We're probably gonna talk about the fact that, like, the, the team building options they have at their disposal this summer come with, like, hard cap restrictions if they use them. So if they use the traded player exception, they get hard cap to 209 million. But you can't. If, unless your payroll is like, over that number, you basically can't get it over that number. And so, like, you know, there's re. There's reasons to, you know, there's reasons to, like, for example, if the Knicks want to make trades because they're like, they have all this money on the books, they can make trades. They could, you know, they could trade Josh Hart for a player who's making the amount of money Josh Hart's making.

[Adam Kaufman]

So anyway, I want to get to a lot of that, but first, let's take a quick break. Tell you about our good friends over at Prize Picks. The NBA Finals are here, but the action, it does not stop with the confetti falls and the NBA crowns a champion because it's a star studded, scorching summer of sports. Women's basketball, baseball, both heating up. We got the world's biggest soccer tournament on American soil and the first ever MMA fight on the White House lawn. Can you believe it? Make your picks for all these events and more this summer on Prize Picks, America's number one sports Picks app.

[Evan Valenti]

We got a flex play Friday for y', all, obviously with your guy who's. I. I'd like to be called, like, Captain Flex Play because I never get all three right anyway. But I never lose any money because I'm just always hitting. Flex play. With our flex play Friday for game two. Kaufman, you and I align on one of these. And I just want to point that out from the jump that you and I are both on Wemby, Victor Wembanyama being less than 42 and a half points, rebounds and assists. Now, that might seem weird to some of you out there, but Adam and I, we've done the research. Wendy's been less than 42 and a half points, rebounds, assist the last four straight games. So just keep an eye on that, okay? Meanwhile, copy my other two parts of my lineup. Jalen Brunson, more than 211 1/2 field goals attempted. I just. This feels like stealing money here. You know he's going to shoot a lot. I mean, you just know he's going to shoot a lot. He shot what, 30 times in game one. I feel very confident with that. Then I'm going, Josh hart less than 11 points. I.

[Seth Landman]

He's just.

[Evan Valenti]

Game one, he did not look like he wanted to shoot the basketball. Like he would always drive into the paint, get stopped by Wemby, pull it back out and then dish it around. It seemed like that was their sort of their focus.

[Adam Kaufman]

So

[Evan Valenti]

I'm gonna, I'm gonna stick with that. That Josh Hart's gonna go less than 11 points.

[Adam Kaufman]

Well, like you said, Wimy less than 42 and a half points, rebounds, assists. We are in line on that. And so there's gonna have to be a differentiator. I've got a couple. You mentioned Josh Hart in your less than 11 points. How about Josh Hart more than 14 ra rebounds, plus assists. For all of the lack of scoring, he was certainly active on the glass and as a distributor and just doing those Josh Hart winning plays things that he does out there. I just think this guy even. I mean, look, we. We just saw it. Even with foul trouble, he was still out there. He collected those early two and all of a sudden, oh, is he going to be sitting. Nope. I was chasing those RAs in the first game and I'm going to continue to do so here. More than 4, 14 rebounds and assists. And then Steph Castle, dude is just a consistent dozen plus points. More than eleven and a half points. I know there are no locks. There are no free squares. Well, free square, I guess if you get one of those half a point more than type of situations, but.

[Evan Valenti]

Right.

[Adam Kaufman]

It's. It's not automatic to get Castle at more than 11 and a half points. But I'll tell you what, when you watch them these days, it sure feels like it. It really does. It feels like this dude is out there primed to shoot and ready to get himself to again somewhere in the teens. Just as he did in game one. So like you said, hit all three 3x the money 2 out of 3 get most of the money back and get money back. It couldn't be easier. In as little as 15 minutes you can watch it roll on into your account Venmo or or whatever you opt to use so so easy Ev.

[Evan Valenti]

Yeah and if you line ups on fire price picks offers early payout hasn't happened to me but it could happen to you. So stay, stay tuned. Watch your lineup throughout the game and if they offer you a chance to cash out early, might want to hit that button. Might want to cash early. So download Prize fix today, use the app and use the code CLNS to get $50 lineups after you play your first $5. Again download the prize picks app today, use the code CLNS to get $50 in lineups after you play your first $5. That's CLNS50 lineups after your first five dollar lineup. Let's get back to the show.

[Adam Kaufman]

We're back here on Celtics Beat with Seth Layman talking about the Celtics options this off season and we've mentioned him what feels like 20 times already and everyone else 2, 000 times more than that. And that is of course Giannis Antentokounmpo now something before we got kind of pulled back into the Knicks roster building conversation what I am having trouble with in this era of social media reporting, bloggers, insiders, leaks, podcasters, you name it, is that I just find it more and more difficult to decipher what is real. Right. You've got people like Bill Simmons who is certainly well connected to the Celtics organization and is, you know, a die hard NBA fan and all of that doesn't generally throw crap against the wall. Making the comments recently on his show that he doesn't really think Boston is in on Giannis, that this, you know, you just alluded to it that maybe Brad is is not too inclined to go down that road in exchange for Jalen Brown or some sort of Derek White package or just Giannis in general on the wrong side of 30 with the injury despite how great he is when he's healthy. And we all know that there's also the Trey Murphy stuff that's out there from various people. Sam Amick, I was reading him in the Athletic and I, I thought the wording was kind of funny because he said the Celtics have emerged as a potential quote wild card to land attention to Kumpo. Wild card. We like, we've been talking about the Celtics and Giannis for, I don't know how long, but some of the quote from the article. While league sources have maintained that he is interested in joining the Heat, there's also indications that he's very intrigued with the prospect of joining a Celtics team that by any objective measure is deeper and more dynamic than Miami's and could thus remain more competitive after a blockbuster deal. So there are two things there that jump out to me.

[Seth Landman]

Yeah.

[Adam Kaufman]

That we've really harped on here on this show. This is not new to this reporting. If Giannis, and this is what we keep hearing. Giannis wants to stay in the east, the west is too hard and he wants to play for a contender. If Giannis wants to go to Miami and lots of players want to go to Miami, don't blame him for it. If he does, save on the sale, you know, state taxes and, you know, it's nicer weather and all of these things. But you don't care about contending. Like, let's. These two things cannot go together. Miami, with a roster of Giannis and bam and nothing else, will be a six seed like that. That team will suck. That's, that's not a contending roster. You want to go to Miami, go to Miami. But don't spin me this fraudulent I want to only play for a contender thing if he dictates his way to the Miami Heat. So that's one thing. The other is this again, Simmons says, well, Boston doesn't really want Giannis, but we keep hearing Giannis wants Boston. Now ultimately that doesn't really matter if the Celtics aren't interested. But I, I just find all of this stuff that's out there. Well, we keep hearing it. We keep hearing about Trey Murphy, we keep hearing about Giannis, we keep hearing about Jalen play, you know, three team deal going back to hometown Hawks. Right. He's going to play for Atlanta. And I don't let. Years ago I would have said to you in the era of reporting that we were in then, boy, when there's smoke, there's fire. And we just, we keep hearing this stuff. There's got to be some truth to this. Now, in the year of our Lord 2026, I don't know what is genuine, what is just people throwing against the wall, what is sourced reporting from leaks from agents and players themselves. I Don't. I don't know. I don't know how to interpret it. The only thing that I know for certain is Boston's probably not in on any of these guys because Brad operates in, in the shadows. Like, the only thing that Brad's ever gone out and done that people talked about was acquiring Vuchovic, and that was awful. So, like, I, I don't, I, I don't know. I don't know, Seth. Like, I'm just kind of rambling to the book.

[Seth Landman]

Yeah. What do you like, you.

[Adam Kaufman]

How to interpret what happened. You could here today, you could be

[Seth Landman]

talking about sports, you could be talking about politics, you could be talking about like, this is just what life is like now. Like. Yeah, you're not like. Yeah, it just, it makes sense to me. There's a market for. If you mention Giannis, his name. It's why we're talking about Yanis right now.

[Evan Valenti]

Right.

[Seth Landman]

It's like, it drives interest. So, I mean, I don't know, like, I don't think any of this report. There's been so much reporting on this dude now for like years and none of it has seemed like, it always seems to get like undermined. And anyway, I just think, here's what I want to ask you guys. This is like the basketball question that, that, that I'm interested in about. This is a t. If you just take away Jalen and put Giannis in his place and you run it back with the same roster as last year and yeah, let's assume Giannis is healthy, as healthy as Jalen was. And yeah, let's assume like, let's assume health for everyone. Would you rather the Celtics play? Do you think the Celtics would have a better chance at winning the title with Giannis than Jalen?

[Adam Kaufman]

I think you have a better chance, yes. But I also think you have a shorter Runway with Giannis than with Jalen.

[Seth Landman]

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So I mean, I guess, like, I guess that's why it's coming up. It's like, he's good enough. It kind of is this trade that might make sense for both teams. Right? Like, especially in this new, like with the new like anti tanking legislation that's going on in the NBA and the, the draft odds, like, it doesn't really make sense for the, the Bucks don't have their picks anyway, so I don't know why I'm talking about that, but like.

[Adam Kaufman]

Well, I don't know how much sense it makes for Milwaukee unless again, as anticipated by people, it's a three team deal where you're spinning him off somewhere else and you're getting a whole bunch of assets.

[Seth Landman]

I mean, it doesn't pay to be a bad team anymore. So it. Like, it. Jalen's a couple years younger than Giannis, so maybe it just gets some butts in the seats and you. I mean, like, I don't know, I. I could see them wanting to hold on to Jalen. I could see them moving Jalen to another team anyway. I think that's why it's coming up. To me, it actually. The difference between those two players, if they're completely like, you know, is Giannis going to be better next year than he was last year? Probably not. I think we're past the point of his career where he's going to be better each year. I think we might even be past that point with Jalen Brown's career at this point, given the season he just had. So, you know, to me, that. That would be like a marginal upgrade. It doesn't do anything to improve your ability to add players around this. One of the things nobody's really talked about, the Celtics, part of how they were able to duck the tax last year, is that they don't even have guys on minimum contracts. They have, like, five or six, maybe seven players making less than the veteran minimum on the team. They're saving. That's, like some real scrimping and saving going on. And so, you know, could they have had a better team if they had, like, a couple of veterans in some of those spots instead of, like, all young guys, maybe, Honestly, like, Gary Trent made the league minimum last year. Like, there's. There's, like, good players this summer who are going to be available at the league minimum.

[Adam Kaufman]

Good player.

[Seth Landman]

Yeah, yeah, he's.

[Evan Valenti]

He can shoot it. Yeah, he can certainly shoot the hell out of it. Yeah. Well, I mean, he didn't have a great. He didn't have the best year this past year, but he can certainly space the floor. The thing with the Giannis thing, for me, that maybe we're not getting, there's two points to this one. I think if you trade Jalen for Giannis, you lose the continuity those two guys have together, which I think is part of, like, the secret sauce of a lot of these teams is keeping this team together for a long time. The continuity is great. That's. That's one thing. But for someone like Giannis, Is Jason Tam the best player Giannis has ever played with? Like, I would think so. Like, are we talking Drew Holiday? You know, and look, we all.

[Adam Kaufman]

We all love Drew on the show.

[Evan Valenti]

There's no. There's no. We love Drew, but by the time Dane got there, he wasn't as good. I mean, you know, Bobby Portis is cool, but, like, really, like, what are we talking about here? Like, Kyle Kuzma? Chris Middleton? Like, no, like, Jason Tatum would be the best player that Giannis ever played with. It might make his game a little bit. It might be easier for Giannis to have a guy like Tatum on the floor with him. And that's what makes this very intriguing to me, is, like, well, you're giving Giannis the best player he's ever played with before, and he's going to make his life a whole lot easier. And you could say the same thing about Jason Tatum. You know, Tatum, the. The team that they had when they won was so loaded with talent that it was like. Like, you know, Porzingis is like, your fifth best player, and he's shooting from 28ft at 7 foot 2.

[Seth Landman]

Like, this is. He didn't even really play in the playoffs.

[Evan Valenti]

I know. That's. That's. That's how good that team was that didn't even really need him.

[Adam Kaufman]

We'll always have game one of the finals, though.

[Evan Valenti]

Crazy, right? So, you know, it'd be interesting to see what the gravity of the court looks like with a Giannis on the team with Tate. Like, I find it very intriguing. The other part of this is Giannis is due an extension, like, very shortly. Yeah. And if you're trading for Giannis there, you have to assume that there's some sort of, hey, we'll sign you the extension as soon as you come aboard. Like, we'll. We'll figure this out.

[Adam Kaufman]

But no, Adam, we have trading for Giannis without the belief that they are signing it.

[Evan Valenti]

Right. But what. What did we talk about with Gary Washburn weeks ago of, like. And this gets back to sets point of, can you have two guys on the team making this much percentage of the cap? Can you make a team work like that? And Gary was like, are you going to Jalen and telling Jalen, hey, in order for us to keep this thing together, you have to get pay cut on your next extension. And if you're telling Jalen that, you got to obtain them, that, too, because you're not paying Jalen X amount of dollars than paying Tatum, like, 10 more million dollars. That's just not gonna work. Like, that's just not. It's not good optics. You know, Is there a way to talk to Giannis and say, hey, man, like, we want to have you here. We want to have you an extension, but there's just no way we can pay you what you're actually worth. You have to take a significant discount for you to be here. Does it seem attractive to you? Like, that conversation has to be had because at like, let's say they trade for Giannis, they signed to a max extension. Well, if he's hurt all the time, guess where we are. Back to where we are right now. And it doesn't. And it makes building a team around two guys making 70% of the gap even harder because Giannis gets hurt all the time and he's on the bench all the time.

[Seth Landman]

But isn't it crazy that we're talking about like, we're talking about Adam, you just said no one's going to trade for Giannis unless they know he's signing an extension. That extension. We are. It's like a year away from being signed or whatever. We already know that. The second the ink is dry on that thing, it's a bad contract, without a doubt. So like we're, we're talking about like those two things are incredibly.

[Adam Kaufman]

Isn't that kind of true of Jalen Brown's two year, $140 million deal that he's going to sign?

[Seth Landman]

He's not getting that deal. You think the Celtics are offering him that deal this summer?

[Adam Kaufman]

Think he's going to ask out? If they don't,

[Seth Landman]

there's no way. There's no way they're giving him that contract. There's no way in a million years they're offering that.

[Evan Valenti]

No, because. Because it's what?

[Adam Kaufman]

For what?

[Evan Valenti]

Leverage though? They don't have. Brown has. He's under contract for three more years. Like there's no leverage here. There's no leverage.

[Seth Landman]

I think the more, the more interesting.

[Adam Kaufman]

Agree with you, but I think. I'm not saying it's gonna like that specific deal is happening this summer, but I think that extension talks.

[Seth Landman]

Oh yeah.

[Adam Kaufman]

There's a reason that everything is sort of playing out in the media right now to a degree. He's gonna, he's gonna want to get paid as much as he can for as long as he can, like anyone else. By the way. I'm not faulting him for that, but I think he's going to be chasing that character.

[Seth Landman]

And by the way. And by the way, the extension won't ch. Like we could. He could play another year. But all that changes is that the extension could be a three year extension instead of a two year extension. Like those tots aren't going away. Which is another reason his value today, before all this stuff is in the before, like, people are thinking about the atrocious extension that we already know he's going to get. Like, his value today has. He has value. Right now. There are 30 teams in this league. The Celtics, like, a lot of those teams would kill to pay Jaylen Brown the supermax. The Celtics don't need to pay him the supermax. They already have a player who's better than him. And so I think the. To me, it's like, it's actually, if you could get two, like, good to very good, maybe like just sub all star level rotation players back for him, I don't see how.

[Adam Kaufman]

All right, so let's go there because I, I want to make sure we have some time to get into the NBA finals a little bit before we sign off to bring our text thread to the show. You want the Celtics to trade Jaylen Brown?

[Seth Landman]

Yeah.

[Adam Kaufman]

And that doesn't mean that you don't like Jalen Brown. You don't enjoy his game, you think

[Evan Valenti]

he's a bad dude. None of that.

[Adam Kaufman]

You, you are.

[Evan Valenti]

You.

[Adam Kaufman]

You're just a believer that the best route to contending and building out this team financially is moving Jaylen Brown this summer. Yeah, most people who have come on with us since the season ended have said the opposite. Now, maybe that is because they don't like the potential packages. They aren't sort of coming to grips with the financial realities facing this team or they're emotional about the Jays and they want to see them be able to, you know, chase yet another ring and be able to enter that exclusive club of multiple champion Celtics. All of these things. You are the one who ultimately, you know, is sort of leading the charge here on this show of. No, look, I mean, thanks for everything, Jalen, but you got to go.

[Evan Valenti]

Yeah.

[Adam Kaufman]

So what is it ultimately that you want in this deal if it's not Giannis, if it's not the quote unquote, better player in the deal?

[Seth Landman]

Yeah, I want. I want two players. So I want depth and I want players who ideally you'd be going after players who are cost controlled on long term, like good long term deals. I think ideally you'd be looking for shooting like a player who's like a little more of a. A better, like, as good, if not better team defender than Jalen and like, and a great shooter.

[Adam Kaufman]

So I know you got names in

[Evan Valenti]

your head,

[Seth Landman]

believe it or not. Like, the names. I don't know. I mean, you could look around like I think Trey Murphy is actually the reason he keeps coming up is he's kind of like a perfect target in that way. I think, I think the Hawks got like, you know, if you start looking at the players on the Hawks, somebody like Jalen Johnson, not, not a good shooter, but a good fit in a lot of ways. Dyson Daniels for his defense. Could you get Nikhil Alexander Walker. I think Biggs, it's interesting to look at Biggs. Could you get a guy like a Kong Wu from the Hawks, guys we've talked about on the show before, Claxton from the Nets. I, you know, I guess I'm just, I started thinking about what, you know, the things we were saying this team needed last year that they didn't have so versatile defensive bigs who like, you know, I kind of feel like the bigs on this team last year got played out of the rotation in the playoffs or, or should have been played out of the rotation if there were any alternatives. So like a legit big and a shooter, if I could get those two things. I mean you start looking at the, the bigs available if you ignore, if the Celtics run it back and, and there's that, that figure of like, basically if they bring everybody back and you do all the math, even though you're gonna hear These figures like 27 million traded player exception, 15 million mid level exception, they, they can actually only add 20 million, 21 million before they get hard capped. And so I, I would challenge anyone, like go look at the list of players who make less than 21 million and tell me who, who you want, who's like moving the needle. Maybe, maybe you could get Daniel Gafford from Dallas. I think that could be an interesting target. But yeah, if, if I'm trading Jalen Brown, I want, I want some future draft picks because of the new like the new rules. I think future draft picks could suddenly have a lot more value as like lottery tickets to build out your team in the future and to grease the wheels in trades moving forward. And I want some players. So like when I heard the rumor recently about Trey Murphy, some like whatever expiring contract and some amount of draft capital. That seems great. I can, I can take Trey Murphy, I can take the draft capital. I can use that expiring contract, flip it with some other, maybe a draft pick or something else, maybe the Hauser contract and bring back another player making like 20 to 30 million and have a little more depth, you know. And I think the other thing to think about is like a team's Ability to be good. Maybe the other lesson to learn from the Knicks would be that it pays off actually to just be very good for a little while. Like you don't actually have to like, to like seem like an obvious best

[Evan Valenti]

team in the league.

[Seth Landman]

If you can be a 50, 50 to 55 win team for three or four years in a row. Maybe you catch lightning in a bottle in a season like this, your guys start playing better together and suddenly you have a shot at winning the title. So I think that's another reason for moving away from this like two super max star model into something else.

[Evan Valenti]

Well, they've been, they've been winning a lot for a long time. I mean it's not like they've been hanging around for a while. They've been one of the best teams. I mean. Yeah, yeah, for, for a long time. So I've been, they've been doing that. It's just they've been, they did it a little bit differently. They did it with the Jays instead of like just being like okay for a while. They've been able to be real and even this year was amazing. They were, they won 50 plus games without Jason Tatum. Like they still found a way to. I mean they did, but wouldn't you

[Seth Landman]

say they were, wouldn't you say they were pretty exposed in the playoffs though? I mean like.

[Evan Valenti]

Oh, no question about it.

[Seth Landman]

Yeah, I mean, like, I mean, I

[Evan Valenti]

don't, I mean to the, to that point. Then the Knicks get beat by like Trey Young and the Hawks years ago.

[Seth Landman]

Like that's a bunch of years ago. So if the Celtics were at the beginning of this run, right, if the Celtics had just this team together, I would say let's see what we have here for a while. But I think the, the other piece of it, it really is that it's the 2 supermax, they just don't have any means of, of adding depth. Like again like the Knicks maybe are what they are but the Knicks have set like seven good players on the team who are all going to be good again next year. Like I don't. The Celtics, I mean they're, they're getting

[Adam Kaufman]

production out of Deuce McBride and is fantastic.

[Seth Landman]

Deuce McBride's about to get like a 20, 25 million dollar a year extension

[Adam Kaufman]

pretty soon a postseason. I just unfortunately guys, you know this. But it, you know, worth being said that there are die hard basketball fans who know every player in the league, right, and understand why the Derek White trade was a good one the second they made it. And there are other people that are just kind of, you know, pop in casually and. And know the bigger names. And unfortunately, I think that generally makes up more of the fan base. And that's true of any team not unique to the Celtics, that is.

[Seth Landman]

You think Brad's worried about that?

[Adam Kaufman]

No, not at all. Not at all. I don't think Brad cares about public perception one bit. But I do think that there's going to have to be, if this happens, approve it moment on the floor. Because any trade that Brad makes, if he does involving Jaylen Brown, that doesn't involve Giannis and even some that do is going to be viewed as a bad trade. There is nobody out there, like. And when I say nobody, I'm exaggerating because the use of the world don't fall into this category. But among the mainstream Celtics fan or even NBA fan, and certainly talking heads on national media, most people will condemn Brad and the Celtics front office for dealing away Jaylen Brown when you are getting even a collection of inferior players in return.

[Seth Landman]

But all they have to do is make it to the second round of the playoffs next year and that noise will silence completely. Like, they're in. Just like to me, they're in such a good spot to make this like that there's just no way to look at this season and conclude they were any. Like, if, if we were fans of a different team and we were looking at this Celtics team, we'd be like, that team was a bunch of frauds who had a good regular season. They were just a regular season team. They just won on math variants. They like great coaching job. Joe Missoula. Absolutely deserved coach of the year. Got everything like, rang the like towel, like all the liquid out of the towel. Got every win he could possibly get out of this group. And then they got housed by like a totally mediocre Philadelphia 76ers team that got like, that couldn't compete at all in the next round against the Knicks. So like, I, I just, I don't know. I mean, like, to me, I watched the, the last two playoffs, the loss to the Knicks last year, which like people will want to blame on the Tatum injury. And we all know that series was over before that happened. And then this year, what happened to me, this is a team that's run its course. I don't, like, I think I don't. I just don't see any, like, if we were not Celtics fans, anyone else looking at this team would be like, this team has run its course.

[Evan Valenti]

I feel like, I wonder, are we. We are fully, totally Anchored to Jalen trades. We haven't really even considered Derrick White trades because Derrick White did not have a spectacular season. Meanwhile, Jalen had his best season ever. I just want to point this out,

[Adam Kaufman]

Jalen or I don't agree with that. Eric had a very poor shooting season.

[Seth Landman]

Yes, I agree with that.

[Adam Kaufman]

I. I think most other things, including being for Wasn't first team. Like, I think he did a lot of other things. Well, I think. I think Derek White has been, you know, sold an unfair deal.

[Evan Valenti]

Why am I getting facetimer?

[Seth Landman]

That's Jalen Brown, I think. Yeah.

[Adam Kaufman]

Jalen, are you watching the stream?

[Seth Landman]

Jalen, you know, nobody wants to hear this stuff, but like the. There's like a reason that like the teams, people running teams care about these, like these like all in metrics and like they have, like, they have statisticians, like, going over what's happening and like determining who, which players, like, have value in ways that the like, general public doesn't know about it. If you look at that stuff, you know, like for years now, Derrick White comes out as like one of the 15 best players in the league and Jalen Brown looks mediocre. Like Kenny Atkinson.

[Evan Valenti]

Call what top five player, Derrick White.

[Seth Landman]

The Cavs are. The Cavs are still playing that series. Like, no, I mean, I know it's

[Adam Kaufman]

a little bit analytically, of course.

[Seth Landman]

I wouldn't want to go all the way in that direction. I'm not, I'm not sitting here saying Derrick White is a, like a better player in a vacuum than Jalen Brown. I do think, well, we could go

[Adam Kaufman]

semantic with it, right? Like he's not a better player, but in some ways he's more important.

[Seth Landman]

I think maybe he Dr. Maybe I am saying he's a better player. I think he, like, drives. I think he drives winning in the NBA more than Jaylen Brown drives winning in the NBA. I just happen to believe that that's true. I just, I like, think we have like years of statistical evidence. Like, if there were any years where Jalen was like, where the advanced metrics were saying Jalen was better, I'd be like, well, maybe there's something. But it's like years and years in a row of this stuff. Like, I, I just think at some point the proof is in the pudding

[Evan Valenti]

a little bit case study.

[Seth Landman]

Even if it's something we can't see, right?

[Evan Valenti]

Because Jalen is, you know, coming off his greatest season ever. Second team, all NBA. And then, but then you look at the, you know, the past couple of weeks of the Celtic Season everybody was talking about why is Jalen on off numbers? Why they, you have to ignore them completely because of like circumstances. And yet, you know, with Derrick White that didn't shoot the ball super well. And that's, but that's, we have to also understand that that's also a hindrance. Right? Like not shooting the ball. Well, I think, I think maybe people might feel like that. The both of you saying he had a bad shooting season. Like you're poo, pooing that a little bit. Like the, the like Derek White's like, don't get me wrong, Derek White's awesome. He's, he's the best, you know, shot blocking guard in the league, you know, since Dwyane Wade and does all these additive things. But at the end of the day like putting the ball in the basket is what you need to do. And he was.

[Seth Landman]

But doesn't that stuff like come like Jaylen Brown had a bad sh. Season the year before that. Like I just think like is Derek White a bad shooter? I guess we'll find out. But like I'm not going to take one year and make that determination. He like, he's got enough evidence with me. Just like Jalen Brown. Like I didn't think Jalen Brown was going to have as bad a shooting season this year as he had the year before I did. I think he was going to like become the best mid range shooter in the league suddenly for a year. No, but I don't, I don't necessarily think that's the, the truth either.

[Adam Kaufman]

All right, in the final few minutes here, let's talk about the NBA Finals and just the, I said it off the top of the show, the whole team of destiny thing. It's one game. So look, the, the spurs could take game two. All of a sudden it's a best of five. They, you know, move to favorites again and all of that. It's, you know, I'm not sitting here saying the series is over. I don't believe that by a long shot. And I never did believe this was going to be a sweep. I, you know, San Antonio in, in six, you know, felt right to me. Maybe even five. Obviously they spurs would have to win out at this point, but I never truly considered, despite all of the smart basketball people there are in the world who talk ball for a living. I, I truly, maybe it's a me problem and you problem and a you problem, the two of you and maybe some listeners out there as well. I, I didn't really entertain the idea of the Knicks Winning this series. I didn't. And that's not to say they haven't had an incredible playoff run. I mean, hell, this team hasn't lost in damn near a month and a half. It's been incredible what the Knicks have been doing and absolutely have played better than some of their parts and all of these things. But I just look at that San Antonio team, I'm not surprised. The Spurs, I'm not shocked. I'm a little surprised. I'm not shocked the spurs lost game one coming off of that, you know, war of attrition with the Thunder and being as dinged up as they are, and the Knicks having all that time off to rest and get shots up in the gym and, you know, just kind of go into this thing with nothing to lose, so to speak. But if San Antonio doesn't pull out this series in however many games it takes, I will be very surprised. I will be like. I mean, there's already a case to be made that this is the best Knicks team of all time. A championship.

[Seth Landman]

What?

[Evan Valenti]

Yes.

[Seth Landman]

You don't think better than the 70 and the 70.

[Evan Valenti]

Well, if. Yeah. Willis Reed

[Adam Kaufman]

with a title. Yes. Not.

[Evan Valenti]

Not.

[Seth Landman]

Why would they be better? Wait, hold on. Why would they be better than those other title teams? Teams?

[Adam Kaufman]

I think a big part of it is parity across the league. There were what, 17, 18 teams in the league back then versus 30 now. I think that's.

[Seth Landman]

Yeah, but like, but, but there were like some great, like, what wasn't like Jabbar and Oscar Robertson like, playing together on the Bucks during those championships? Like, you gotta, like. I don't know, man.

[Evan Valenti]

Will they beat Will and Jerry West? Like, what are we talking about?

[Seth Landman]

Yeah, that. I'm sorry, Will.

[Evan Valenti]

Will and Jerry west played for the Lakers the year they, the Knicks beat them in 73.

[Adam Kaufman]

I think there will. I think there will be a case to be made if and when the Knicks win this series.

[Seth Landman]

You haven't thought this.

[Adam Kaufman]

You have to win. I think there was. There's a case to be made the series. I, I mean, even without. To the finals, there's a losing.

[Evan Valenti]

I mean, if you want to say they're better than the 90s Knicks, then, then we can have that discussion. But I'm not. 1973 Knicks beat one of the, the two. The logo and the guy that has almost every record ever in the NBA.

[Seth Landman]

I feel like Willis Reed on one

[Evan Valenti]

leg and, and, and, and, and Clyde Frazier is one of the best in the one leg.

[Adam Kaufman]

I don't like he played for, like, I don't give a. About any of that.

[Seth Landman]

Okay, well, this is. We're getting. We're gonna get totally sidetracked by this, but we will. That's like, let's just move on because I don't think we're prepared to have this.

[Evan Valenti]

Everybody. Everybody's favorite.

[Adam Kaufman]

That's fine. We can. We can put down the road. That's fine. Again, if they lose this series, it'll be irrelevant anyway.

[Seth Landman]

Join us. Join us next week for Nick's beat.

[Adam Kaufman]

Yeah, but true. Like, what. What. You know, what did you see in game one that has you feeling a certain way? Town the rest of this series now,

[Seth Landman]

Towns, man, I think the reason. The reason we didn't see this coming is because, like, this guy has been, like, an absolute clown for, like, my whole basketball life of the last, like, decade. Like, yeah, think about, like, you know, like, the stuff people say about James Harden in the playoffs. Like, Towns has, like, maybe a worse resume than that guy. Like, did you really think Townes was gonna play? Like, he had Victor Wembanyama, like, totally shook to me. To me last night. Like, I. Like, I went into this series thinking that, like, cats first drive to the basket in the series was going to end in, like, a horrific charge. Like, or. Or just getting the ball stolen from him. Wemby, like, eating him alive at the rim. Towns fouling out in, like, 25 minutes. Like, I didn't think he could play with these guys at all. And he was. I think he was, like, absolutely tremendous. It's like the best defensive game maybe I've ever seen him play. He. He was, like, awesome and under control on offense. Like, the drives to the basket against Wembanyama, like, Wemby got him once or twice, but, like, he. I just thought Towns played, like, the most important good playoff game I've ever seen him play. And that. That, to me, yeah, if he's that good.

[Evan Valenti]

You don't say that. Yeah. I don't know how you watch that game, because again, I. People are gonna be, oh, Jayla Brunson was clutch. I said, I'm gonna tell you that he was okay. He wasn't. He was good when they needed him to be good. But for the rest of the game, I thought he what? He was one of seven to start the game. I thought he was.

[Seth Landman]

Yeah. I mean, like, why was. Why were they even in the game? Down the stretch for Brunson to make those shots like, that cat was unbelievable.

[Evan Valenti]

I mean, they got contributions from Landry Shammit. They got Jose Alvarado stepped up A little bit.

[Seth Landman]

I.

[Evan Valenti]

What I thought was very interesting and if you're, if you're a Spurs fan or a member of the Spurs OG and, and Mikhail Bridges, like, were not spectacular. They were. They kind of floated in and out of the game a little bit. You know, they didn't. I was waiting for the, the. Let's throw Mikhail Bridges a grenade with two seconds in the shot clock. He does a spin away, like turn away three from 38ft and he buries it. You're like, I can't believe you did that. But it was all about cat. Cat cooking. Dudes off the dribble, playing great defense. He rebounded the basketball well. Josh Hart had a bunch of late rebounds to the game that sealed the game for them. He had what, 15 in the game, but he had a bunch late that were all super important. Despite being in fall trouble, Hart was awesome. That, that's to me what it was more about. And like the young guards, like Castle looked a little, little too ahead of himself a little bit. Even Wemby looked a little too himself a little bit. Sums up with the Aaron Fox and he just. I think the injury is, is not quite there. And, and like how bad does that game get if Dylan Harper is not awesome like Dylan Harper? I mean, I was, you guys know, I was texting you guys the crazy. I cannot believe what I'm watching with Dylan.

[Seth Landman]

He's so good.

[Evan Valenti]

Like, I cannot believe what I'm watching at 20 years old.

[Adam Kaufman]

Inconsistency in the conference finals. You know, like he's, he had his moments, but then obviously incredible in game one.

[Evan Valenti]

He's so good. It's like the fact that he went second to Cooper flag. I mean rightfully so. I'm not saying he was supposed to, but like that guy went second and he's gonna play serious minutes and be a real factor on the NBA finals team. Like, that's crazy. Crazy.

[Seth Landman]

This team is so young that like it. Steph Castle feels like this like grizzled veteran. He's like 20, he's like 21 and he's in his second year. It's like, you know, it's, it's unbelievable. They're. They're really. Yeah. I mean like with the Knicks though, I think. Yeah. Heart was amazing. And I think this series is going to come down to like some really interesting like weird little battlegrounds within the game. Like I think, you know, it's tempting to look at the box score. Like if you didn't have the plus minus right, you'd look at the box score. And you'd be like, wow, Heart really couldn't make shots. And, like, shame it was hot. Like, shame it's such a good shooter that maybe they need to play, like, shame it more. And then you look at the plus minus and it's like, actually, it turns out the Knicks, like, couldn't score with Shamet on the floor, even though he's making shots. And Hart, he's just so smart. And his cuts, like, the whole game with the Knicks right now is like, how do we get Wemby to guard somebody on the perimeter? And then we just jack up a shot and somebody goes and gets the rebound and we score that way. And like, heart. Heart's cuts, he just, like, cuts in these, like, intel, intelligent, really canny ways that get Wemby away from the. Like, the. Pull Wemby away or confuse him or. And I thought Alvarado also was sneaky, really important, like, really great defense and made, like, one or two big shots. I did want to say one other thing, though, because it's like the spurs, like, it's tempting to make the argument because they had a bad shooting night that, like, the lights got a little too bright for the young guys. But, like, you know, they made all the big shots in game seven against okc. It's like, is this game really, like, more pressure than that? Like, it's just. It's always so interesting to me. And it's like with every game, it becomes tempting to create these narratives. But I don't know, maybe they just happen to make shots in game seven and just missed them last night. I don't know.

[Evan Valenti]

You know, So I want to make a quick point. Well, can I make a quick point real quick? Because Michael Pina had a great, great thing from last night. The Knicks basically played a lineup they've never played before between Brunson, Towns, McBride, Shamma and Josh Hart. And in the. In the. The four minutes they played together, they were plus 11 with an offensive rating of 170.

[Adam Kaufman]

Well, sure, it's okay when they do it, not when Joe does it in game seven.

[Evan Valenti]

I'm just pointing out, like. But that's. You know, they. Well, this is a little bit different than Joe playing. Yeah.

[Seth Landman]

Playing Shammon and Deuce McBrides a little bit. A little bit different than starting Ron Harper Jr.

[Evan Valenti]

Sometimes you get a little bit of little magic. Like, as Brad says, he shook the snow globe a little bit and did something a little weird.

[Seth Landman]

And by the way, we were so busted at that point that we were like, all three of us not to, like, put you guys on the spot. We were psyched about that lineup, as I. Yeah.

[Adam Kaufman]

And I've owned that. Like, all these people that I'm sure some obviously questioned it, but I feel like there's been a lot of revisionist history, too, of people that, you know, thought it was interesting, different, worth a shot. I'm not even going to say anything, do anything.

[Seth Landman]

Yeah, yeah.

[Adam Kaufman]

Just like, all right, well, let's. Let's see if it works. You know, at least commended. Commended the mindset at the time, and then it doesn't work out at all. Everyone's like, joe's such a freaking idiot. Everything you hear since people are still talking about the starting lineup to game seven, I have fully owned. I liked it at the time, and I think it was worth the shot, even though clearly the results sucked. Like, it's fine. Like, you had to do something.

[Seth Landman]

Proud of you, buddy. Process over results. I like. Yes.

[Adam Kaufman]

Yes. All right. How's the series end? Just not going to hold you to it. Nobody's putting money on it, but what's your prediction?

[Seth Landman]

I got to just keep going with my brain. Like, I'm going to say spurs and five, but, like, you know, like, obviously, I've been. I've been, like, endlessly wrong about this Knicks team now for many years. So, you know, I'm. I'm gonna.

[Evan Valenti]

I'm gonna go put my money in my mouth in the same place and say spurs and six, because that's what I. I sticking with it.

[Adam Kaufman]

I might have the spurs taken the first game. I might have said spurs in five, but I will say spurs and six. I will. I will be impacted enough by game one to push it out a game, because I. I don't think San Antonio is going to win four straight.

[Seth Landman]

Right. I'll tell you, though, if Cat does. If Cat plays like that again in the Knicks win, I really gotta, like, maybe, like, I gotta, like, try take a year off, Try some different medication or something. I really gotta rethink things.

[Adam Kaufman]

Freaking force.

[Seth Landman]

Yeah.

[Adam Kaufman]

All right. Well, almost made it. This has been fun, fellas. It's been a good time. There's going to be a lot more shows just like this throughout the summer, because any sort of big roster, I realize, you know, July is right around the corner, and that's when you're going to start to see some things happen across the NBA and free agency and trades and whatnot. But I don't know how close to a resolution we are on the Jalen Brown saga. I. I really don't I don't think this is one of those things that we're just short at. Like, I tend to trust in Brad more so than I trust in Danny. And when I say that, I don't mean their ability to do the job. I mean what they say to us as figures. Danny will tell you, like, I'm basically paid to lie. Like, that's the job. Brad is generally pretty forthcoming and not deliberately deceitful. If Brad comes out and says we're not trading Jaylen Brown, Jaylen Brown is going to be in our roster. I will take that at face value. But short, excuse me, Short of that happening sometime this offseason, I'm just going to continue to wait. I'm going to wait. I'm not going to necessarily. I, I need to see him on, on in camp, on the floor, preseason, to start to, you know, actually believe. Okay, they're, they're definitely not dealing him well.

[Evan Valenti]

I just want to point out we went 58 minutes, now 59 minutes, and I been holding this for a while. Pick the heck of a day to wear that Gumby shirt guy.

[Adam Kaufman]

Why?

[Evan Valenti]

Because you can see. Because it's, it's like, literally your background because you didn't remember that it's a green screen.

[Adam Kaufman]

So. Yeah, I forgot.

[Evan Valenti]

He's been wearing a banner for an hour here. Good.

[Adam Kaufman]

How's that banner look on me? That's nice. Which one is that? Which, which one am I highlighting?

[Evan Valenti]

Like 62? I don't know. I, I, I noticed I clocked this a while ago. I was like, I don't think anybody else notices that this Gumby shirt is gonna look like the funniest thing the entire show.

[Adam Kaufman]

But didn't, didn't even enter my brain. Even my wife, she came down right before the show, and she's like, you're wearing that on a show. Like, you look like you're your wife

[Evan Valenti]

and I align on this. What the heck are we doing?

[Adam Kaufman]

Well, I mean, you're suited up here.

[Evan Valenti]

I mean, I can't Italian Barbara sign right now. You got a Gumby shirt on.

[Seth Landman]

Where should people get at you if they want to, like, give you a hard time about saying that the, the, about your hate for, for the 1970s New York.

[Adam Kaufman]

Sure, Adam M. Kaufman on Twitter is acceptable. You could also get at me in the comment section right here on the CLNS All Access page on YouTube. If you watch this show as opposed to listening to this show. We'll take you however we can get you. We greatly appreciate it, obviously. But, yeah, get in the comments. Share your thoughts.

[Seth Landman]

Hit us up. Bill Bradley.

[Evan Valenti]

Yeah,

[Adam Kaufman]

is Bill Bradley available in 82. Zero? He probably is. For those who haven't played, I just want to let you know that seth here has hit 82. 0 multiple times. He just doesn't brag about it on social media the way a lot of other people do.

[Seth Landman]

Yeah.

[Adam Kaufman]

And he doesn't cheat with the being able to see all the stats, high IQ stuff. That's how we roll around here. Unfortunately, on the, on the high IQ, I can't get above like 73 right now.

[Seth Landman]

Sneaky, sneaky little one of one of the only ones I didn't figure out on my own. DeMarcus Cousins on the 2010, 2010's Pelicans.

[Evan Valenti]

Good one.

[Adam Kaufman]

All right, well, thanks of course to all of you out there watching, listening. We appreciate you again. CLNs All Access page on YouTube. You can find us and a lot of other great Celtics content, the audio version, wherever you get your podcasts. Search Celtic Speed Rate Review Most importantly, subscribe, leave comments on Twitter for all of us, all of that good stuff. And yeah, we'll continue to track all of this in the weeks and months to come in what is sure to be allowed offseason. In terms of all of the reporting anyway, in terms of on the floor, we'll find out. But it does seem like Brad wants to do some stuff and recognizes that the errors in roster building that plagued them last year. We'll see what he does going forward. But thanks to prize picks, thanks to Seth Landman. Thanks Devin Valenti. I am Adam Kaufman. Again, thanks to all of you. Go Spurs. We'll see you later.