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- [00:00]
Evan Valenti
At the Home Depot.
- [00:01]
Brian Barrett
Get up to 15% off all installed
- [00:03]
Adam Kaufman
carpet projects for a limited time, featuring
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Brian Barrett
brands like LifeProof, LifeProof with PetProof technology, Home Decorators Collection and Trafficmaster. Take your pick of carpet built for
- [00:13]
Adam Kaufman
real life and designed for real comfort.
- [00:15]
Brian Barrett
Plus with installations starting as low as
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Adam Kaufman
49 cents per square foot and a free measure to get you started, we'll
- [00:21]
Brian Barrett
handle the hard parts for you.
- [00:22]
Adam Kaufman
Offer valid July 16, 2026 through August 2, 2026.
- [00:26]
Brian Barrett
Exclusions apply. For licenses see homedepot.com licensenumbers this episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome? That's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50 page restoration block. Or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it, ready to make anything online make sense. There's no place like Chrome. Check responses Setup required. Compatibility and availability various 18 when you think about Crocs, you think the classic clog.
- [01:00]
Evan Valenti
But did you know there's also a canvas clog? A vegan suede clog, A coastal inspired style.
- [01:06]
Brian Barrett
A style with studs, straps and lots of sass? Honestly, I could keep going with the surprises. You've got to see them for yourself because there is literally a style for
- [01:16]
Evan Valenti
every kind of girl. So do your thing and head to crocs.com or a store near you now.
- [01:23]
Adam Kaufman
Today is Thursday, July 30th and this is Celtics Beat on CLNS Media, the leading online provider of audio video coverage of the Boston Celtics. I'm Adam Kaufman. Episode 687 features the Ringer and Spotify's Brian Barrett.
- [01:37]
Evan Valenti
And I'm Evan Valenti and today's show is powered by Prize Picks. Prize Picks is the official daily fantasy partner of CLNS Media. Download the app today and use the promo code CLNs and get $150 instantly when you win your first $5 lineup.
- [02:02]
Brian Barrett
Hey everybody, welcome in.
- [02:03]
Adam Kaufman
It is Celtics Beat here on CLNS Media. We are a trio once again. Of course, me, Dan Greenberg last week Evan Valenti returns from vacation. Brian Barrett as we complete the Syracuse Triumvirate. As we always like to boast about when the three of us are together. It's great to see both of these guys. Adam Kaufman here of course. Check out CLNS Media, YouTube, the All Access page. You can find loads and loads of great Celtics related content and the other sports as well. With Patriots training camp underway and the Red Sox trade deadline rapidly approaching only days away let's see if they are, in fact, all in Greg Breslow, but stay hot out west. And of course, podcast version. If you just want the audio. You don't want to see us. Maybe it's easier for you on the go. Or like, Evan, if you're out walking the dog, you can jump into that as well. Spotify, Pandora. Wherever you subscribe to your podcast, we are there. Just search Celtic speed, boys. It's good to see you, Bear. Welcome.
- [03:01]
Brian Barrett
How you guys doing?
- [03:02]
Adam Kaufman
Great, Ev.
- [03:03]
Evan Valenti
How was that gab? I swear to God, I'm more tan than this. I swear. I promise you, I'm. I am more than this camera. I like, literally, dude, Kaufman, you more tan than I do right now. I'm, like, offended by it, but I had a great time. I had my first cruise, so I'm taking this week off from drinking because I did enough of that while I was away, and it was a great time. Dominican Republic, Tortola, Saint Kitts. All wonderful places. Listen to both of you guys. I was on vacation, Barrett. I even DM'd you. I was like, I think I texted you. I was on vacation. When the socks were just win a bunch of games. Like, when does the podcast come out? I need more Red Sox content. It was the best. And I caught Danny. I caught you and Greeny coughing on the way home from. From Miami, which was nice.
- [03:49]
Adam Kaufman
There you go.
- [03:51]
Evan Valenti
I'm caught up all the way around. Excellent.
- [03:53]
Adam Kaufman
Did you properly take advantage of the all you can eat that you can, you know, experience there on a cruise ship?
- [04:01]
Evan Valenti
Trust me, buddy, we. We took advantage of every little nook and cranny you could possibly take advantage of. What was really cool, make this brief. Is we were on the boat for this, the World Cup Final, and they showed it. They have this big theater where they do, like, you know, you know, like music. They just put a huge screen up and threw the game on in there. It was. And they had waiters coming around getting your drink order, so I have to freaking move. It was the best.
- [04:27]
Adam Kaufman
That's amazing. That's pretty great.
- [04:28]
Brian Barrett
You said you drank too much. What were you drinking? Anything specific? All of it.
- [04:32]
Evan Valenti
So. So the move is. The move is you got to upgrade your drink package to the premium drink package. So basically every. Like, they have price amounts on everything, but everything 19 and under for me is free. And my girlfriend and I figured out that if we order four of those drinks a day, that'll pay for itself by the time we were done. Let me tell you, we clocked that. No problem. A lot of martinis. A lot of martinis.
- [04:56]
Brian Barrett
Oh, nice. I like martinis.
- [05:00]
Evan Valenti
Welcome to Martini beat featuring.
- [05:02]
Adam Kaufman
You got a real fun thing about the both of you.
- [05:04]
Evan Valenti
Hey, man, I'm late bloomer.
- [05:07]
Brian Barrett
I like an espresso martini every once in a while. I like an espresso, but you can only have one of those. I feel like you can't have more than one. The other one.
- [05:15]
Evan Valenti
You can have more than one espresso martini. Just make sure it's a late. A late night. You know, it's gotta. You gotta be. But that's the one thing they had, like the. The perfect poor espresso martini. And that actually was maybe one of the worst espresso martinis I've had in my life. I think the beauty is like, making it unbalanced, but right.
- [05:30]
Adam Kaufman
Yeah. Yeah. All right, well, this is Celtics beat, not drinking beats. Let's get to basketball here. And ev, you already know this. Barrett, you may not if you didn't tune in last week. But in true. Just tried and true Celtic speed fashion. Any of you out there who subscribe and listen, you are well aware of this. I had Greeny on, and I figure, okay, it's a little bit slower time of the year. Let's talk about some things that are going on around the league as it relates to the Boston Celtics. And we spent a solid, I don't know, 25, 30 minutes, like, half the show easily on what's LeBron gonna do? And where do we want him to go? And what makes the most sense? Or what's the most threatening for the Celtics? And on and on and on. And I thought anyway, that we had a really good conversation. I was really looking forward to the reaction in the chat, the comments, people debating it. Cleveland, Miami, Philly, the Golden State outlier. Is there a wild card team? Is it Minnesota? What do you think for LeBron? And we finish recording, send it off, you know, ship it. And I don't mean ship it like publish. I mean send it to the editors and get everything good to go. And then couple hours later, it'll go up the usual process. And what, maybe three, four minutes after Greenie and I stopped recording, there it is. Sean Sharania, LeBron James, Philadelphia. So it rendered the first half of the show completely meaningless. I don't know if people still tuned in or just fast forwarded. I apologize if you were inconvenienced by this. I guess it turned into a very hypothetical show, even more than intended, because it. Well, I guess it went from hypothetical to fantasy land. So there's that. But now we know. And LeBron is a Sixer. Baron, I'm sure you have reacted to this on the off the pike podcast. Of course, people can subscribe to that and hear Barrett's thoughts on all things Boston sports, not just the Celtics, but Ev. I mean, I've reacted to it elsewhere, but here on this podcast. And this is an NBA focused podcast. And this is certainly, you know, very relevant to the Boston Celtics. I don't want to spend a half hour on it like last time, but we do need to touch on it because LeBron landing in Philly and now, at least in terms of odds makers, win totals, win the championship, all of that. Philadelphia has leaped over Boston in terms of the odds, kind of neck and neck with the defending champion Knicks right now. And I tweeted it the second it happened, and I will be now the 9 billionth person to say it out loud. To all of you out there watching, listening, I do think this is just one of those LeBron, Maxi, Embiid, Brown, Edgecomb, and then Simons and KCP and whatever else is on the bench there. There's one basketball, man. There is one basketball. Like, I can't help but kind of think back just a little bit. It's not the same thing. It's not. But I go back to that team in, what was it, 1819, the Celtics, where it was all those dudes, all those guys that had their own agendas. And we just kept saying all throughout that year, one basketball, one basketball, my God, there's a lot of talent, but everyone's selves. And that aired itself out, that showed. I. I just, I'm already on record. I'll go on record here on Celtics beat. I don't think it's going to work. I will be surprised if it works, but I will at least concede, whereas no part of me would have given Miami a chance or Golden State a chance, there's a range of outcomes here where this absolutely does work. I don't think it'll work, but I will acknowledge that it could if, in fact, everyone is ready to sacrifice. And I believe LeBron, with the lack of familiarity, you know, he didn't choose family, he didn't choose comfort. He didn't choose home. He didn't. He went to, you know, kind of a great unknown. Now, I know he might be commuting via helicopter from New York City, but Philadelphia is the spot. And he obviously took pennies on the dollar, even compared to what he could be paid here at his, you know, 41, almost 42 years of age. And what he still produces on in the NBA. I mean, he could have, I don't even know on the open market, but considerably more obviously than the 4 million a year that he is getting from Philadelphia. I believe that LeBron is ready to sacrifice and is chasing that chip. I do. I don't know if everybody around him is so willing to sacrifice, though. I'm not sold on that. So that is kind of the jumping off point that I want to take this, guys. You believe that LeBron James in Philadelphia is going to work. And that is defined, of course, by a championship. Not winning, you know, 55 games and getting to the east finals, getting it's title or bust. That should be the expectation for this group, this roster.
- [10:30]
Brian Barrett
Yeah, I mean, you look at it, they get the fourth shortest odds now to win the championship after LeBron side, they're plus 1100. Celtics are ironically fifth and plus 1400. So I thought this is a really interesting choice for LeBron. I didn't think he'd do it, but from a fit perspective, unless he was going to like San Antonio or something like this, they actually need them. Because if you look at that team, the one thing they didn't really have is like a great playmaker. I mean, Maxi, I know he's over six assists, but they're passing on that team is not particularly great. It's not like in beads. Great passing out of double teams. Jalen's forte. And no, he's improved, but he's not a great playmaker. Slash passer. He improved in that area, but they didn't have great passing. So I think he fits in there. And in terms of like the too many chefs or as you said, Kaufman is only one basketball. The one thing I think that would become a problem, I think maybe when they get to the postseason, and that would require Joel and B to actually be there and be healthy, because he's proven that. I think the last time he had a healthy postseason was like, around Covid. Like, that's the last time that he's actually played the full amount of games he was supposed to in a postseason series. So I think that's still the biggest question with them. But the other component to that is like, all right, four minutes left in a game when everybody's playing and it's in the playoffs. Where's Jalen? Like, Jalen probably doesn't have the ball. Like, is he in the corner? What's Jalen doing? So that's where I think it's a unique situation. But during the regular season, I think they're going to be an absolute wagon because we know indeed is probably going to play, what, somewhere between 40 and 50 games. He's not playing back to backs. He announced that himself. I would doubt that at this point in LeBron's career he's going to play back to backs. So LeBron's probably going to play somewhere between, I would say, like 50 to 60 games or 55 to 65 games. Maybe he wants to get to 65 and try to qualify for an All NBA team. So my point with that is there's going to be a lot of games where it's just Jalen, Maxey and Edgecombe as the main three guys and LeBron and Embiid aren't playing or even paying beads out, but just LeBron is playing. So that's where I think, like, Jalen's still going to get his opportunities and Maxi's still going to get his opportunities to carry the team. So during the regular season, like, what's the over, under on how many games those guys in terms of the starting five actually play together? Like 32 and a half. Is he, like. Is that the over, under, like. So I. That's why I think of the regular season. I don't think they're going to have a problem in terms of sharing the basketball.
- [12:53]
Evan Valenti
Yeah, I agree with that. I just think when you have the amount of mobs you have to feed at the end of the season, it might be a little tricky. That's why some people are like, well, it's going to take two years for them to really figure this out. Because LeBron, notoriously, when he moves somewhere, it's not the first year that he does well, it's the second year. So we'll see how that goes.
- [13:07]
Adam Kaufman
You may not have.
- [13:09]
Evan Valenti
Well, I don't know. What did you see Rich Paul today was like, maybe. Maybe he's reinvigorated. Maybe it's two, maybe it's four. It's like, I don't know, LeBron. The thing that I. To make this a little bit something related because everybody wants to have the. Well, if the. If The Celtics knew LeBron was really going to go there, why didn't they hold out for more? The Celtics trading Jalen Brown to the Sixers made it more appealing for bronze. That's where Brown was going to go. Like, there's a lot of that discussion. First off, LeBron doing this whole song and dance show all the time even got to the point of annoyance where Adam Silver had To say something and say, hey, like, can we hurry this up? This is getting ridiculous.
- [13:50]
Adam Kaufman
We'd like to release.
- [13:52]
Evan Valenti
Yeah. Trading jail in there obviously made it easy for him, but at the same time, I don't. People like Brad should have held out for more. I'm like, how is he? I think Brad moved the way he thought it was best. And like, I don't know if you guys saw this earlier. Barrett, I think Logan Murdoch, your. Your. Your compadre there. Or if the ringer had a little follow up on the warriors not making a move. I guess the warriors try to. To maybe at least look into acquiring Jalen back in February.
- [14:20]
Brian Barrett
So, yeah, four first rounders.
- [14:22]
Evan Valenti
Right. So if Brad's been trying to trade Jalen since February, I think the idea being we got to move this guy sooner rather than later before this becomes even harder to do. I think Brad just made a move that he knew that would work out somewhat instead of waiting for something better because he probably would have got something worse. So people try to get the Celtics, you know, flack for trading Jalen to Philly to open the door for LeBron and not holding out for more. I think it's a little disingenuous. Barrett. No.
- [14:52]
Brian Barrett
Yeah. Well, I think that obviously the Celtics couldn't have known that. And I think the other components of that, like there is an argument to say if that's the offer, that same offer is going to be there in September.
- [15:01]
Evan Valenti
Right.
- [15:01]
Brian Barrett
Like there is that argument of why did Brad pull off the deal now? But as you said, like, it was crazy to me reading that because you're thinking he didn't even believe in the team then when they were like overachieving. Like we knew after the season, he ultimately didn't think that duo with the team around him. And we don't have to get into optionality and all that, but that group wasn't good enough to win a championship. Again, that's why he moves on from Jalen. But he felt that way around the trading deadline and probably gave him seven. Maybe that like validated for him, whatever the case may be. But the warriors, they had multiple chances to get players to try to entice LeBron to go there. Like, if that's what they really wanted to do, like they didn't make a serious offer, it feels like, to the Wizards for Anthony Davis. And why my thing about the warriors is like, all right, so if they were interested in Jalen at the deadline, why didn't. Why weren't they going after him this off season? Because the Celtics were going around the league looking for offers. Why weren't they around then? And if it was going to be less, obviously we found out it was two first round picks. Why didn't they reach out to the Celtics then to try to acquire Jalen?
- [16:03]
Evan Valenti
Well, do they, the Celtics want Jimmy Butler and that. Because it's an expiring. I guess there's that.
- [16:07]
Brian Barrett
But like, did they really better package
- [16:09]
Evan Valenti
Jimmy Butler to come back and we don't. Again, we have no idea what this Clippers, Raptors, whatever situation is. So that 2028 pick that the Sixers have of the, of the Clippers is like, well, it could even be a boat. Like, we have no idea what it's going to be. It could be, it could be whatever. So, like, I can certainly see why Boston wasn't really enticed by a Golden State package just because they're like, well, what are we really getting here? We're getting four first round picks.
- [16:37]
Brian Barrett
Like, yeah, I'm saying from the flip side, like, why wasn't Golden State calling the Celtics? Because I, I agree with you. Like at this point, Paul George is at least healthy. Jimmy Butler is not. And Philly, like some of the, like the 2028 pick that you pointed out, like, that is an enticing Pick in the 2031. You're betting against them in the future, like, you're saying you're fading them, so to speak. But I was just surprised, like the warriors weren't back involved in this thing because of the fact that they had apparently been interested at the trading deadline. Maybe they knew they just didn't have a good enough offer because they don't really have assets.
- [17:08]
Evan Valenti
Yeah, yeah.
- [17:09]
Adam Kaufman
I'm just kind of amused by the, and I'm not even saying it's incorrect, you know, by the sentiment that,
- [17:17]
Brian Barrett
you
- [17:17]
Adam Kaufman
know, a refusal to deal with Ugo, Gonzalez kind of caused all this. Right. It's the ripple move of Giannis goes to Miami and Jalen ends up going to Philly and LeBron follows to Philly. And it's just there, there's a series of decisions and maybe I guess it's that one, right? Not trading Ugo or not dealing Shireman. These, you know, lower level contributors, rotation players for the Celtics that you hope are a big part of your future, but you don't know that are going to largely shape how Brad Stevens tenure is evaluated. I mean, this right here is, you know, people obviously like Brad won a championship as, not as a head coach, obviously, but in contributing to building out the roster that won a couple of years ago under Missoula. And, you know, I think has certainly on this show been given an immense amount of credit for the decision making process that he and that entire basketball brass, you know, Mike Zarin and everybody involved there have made over the years. And with very few questions like true questions along the way, this right here is a gigantic question. And I do wonder, obviously, like everybody else, how it plays itself out. Like, you know, people want to have their hot takes. I hate the trade. This is a bad trade. This is going to age poorly, all that. And that's, that's the nature of the beast. You know, people have their opinions in the moment. That's fine, we've got them too. But we're not really going to be able to evaluate this trade for a couple of years. It's, it's just the way it works. And so, yeah, I mean, I'm just really curious to see sort of how it all plays out, because even, let's say Giannis goes to Miami and Giannis is Giannis, but he's not maybe quite the Milwaukee Giannis. And even if he is, statistically, individually, the team never wins anything of, of note, doesn't get to an NBA Finals, even Sixers, you know, Jalen, maybe he's there for a couple of years and then winds up somewhere else because I don't know that Philadelphia wants to give him that extension that he's now eligible for, obviously. And LeBron retires without another ring and Philly doesn't get it done. And you know, all the while Boston doesn't do it either. And so does that kind of thing just become awash? Is it, you know, well, people still living in the, the. What could have been, you know, did you, did you part with the, the tandem of the Jays too early? I'm excited to see. We've talked about this a little bit. What, you know, truly building around Tatum looks like versus building around the Jays. I'm, I'm, I am excited about that. But the amount of questions that are going to follow this offseason as it relates to the Celtics for months, if not years to come is I just think it's going to be one of those continual talking points on this show and others for such a long time. I am again, to use the word, just fascinated by the whole situation.
- [20:21]
Brian Barrett
Yeah, it is funny because I don't think they think it's as controversial as maybe the fan base does in terms of splitting those guys up, because the front office had already determined that we're not winning a championship with this group again. So, like, outside of the organization, that's why everyone's going nuts. It's like, they want a championship together. Why can't they? Why don't you think they can try to win another once again? It's like, again, it's like, well, the 2024 roster, you're never going to have a roster that good again. So they determined, all right, we're not going to win with Jalen and Tatum. So we're choosing to build around Tatum. But to what you were saying, it is TBD because, yeah, it's great assets. Do you end up making the draft pick in 2028 if that turns into a really good pick, or is it, hey, we're waiting for the next disgruntled guy? If the Lamelo Anthony Edwards thing doesn't work out in Minnesota, do you get in on that conversation with some of the assets that you now have, or is it an older player? Like, this situation looks pretty ugly in the Bay Area right now with Steph Curry, where the first time he's on the same page with the front office or the ownership group and he's got one year on his contract, so clearly his leverage. I know, you know, he's from the Charlotte area, grew up in that area, but Tatum and him have relationship going back to Team usa. There's also like, all right, if the Rockets thing completely falls apart, it's not going to cost a lot this time to get Kevin Durant. We'd have like the millionth Kevin Durant rumor. Kevin Durant and Tatum, of course, are friendly. So, like, do you use one of those assets in a trade to acquire an older player or are you holding out? So I.
- [21:54]
Adam Kaufman
Well, also. But like, Paul George isn't walking.
- [21:56]
Evan Valenti
That. That.
- [21:57]
Adam Kaufman
That's absolutely a guy that's going to be fired off as an expiring.
- [22:01]
Brian Barrett
Yeah, that. Well, that will be matching salary in some sort of a deal. If you. If you do it, you do have that big contract. They have other good contracts, too. The Celtics, like, you look up and down, they don't. Besides Paul George, they really don't have a bad contract on the books.
- [22:14]
Evan Valenti
Well, that's the problem with that is this, is they ran into this problem before where they have, like, two guys that make a ton of money and they all throw Derek White in there and they have like, nobody else makes any money. So luckily they have that Paul George contract that they can trade. Because they don't. I mean, yeah, like the, the Shiremans and the Ugos and all, like, they all make no money. Which rules. But in terms of like trying to trade for guys, it'll be hard. But that Paul George contract, that's part of the reason why having him is going to be great, is because without him, they can't give the money to add up to get anybody big.
- [22:46]
Adam Kaufman
They really.
- [22:46]
Evan Valenti
Unless you want to trade Derek, which I don't think they really want to do.
- [22:49]
Brian Barrett
Foreign.
- [22:51]
Adam Kaufman
Let's take a quick break. Tell you today's show is powered by Prize Picks. It's a scorching sports summer and you can make all your picks on prize picks. The wnba, baseball, of course, heating up both of those sports out of their all star breaks. Big tennis slams, major golf tournaments. We've had a bunch of those. There's just no better place for all your summer sports picks than prize Picks. America's number one Sports Picks app.
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Evan Valenti
Yeah, the biggest stars in women's basketball, Kaufman, are in the heart of their season. And there's no better place to run your game on the W than Prize picks. America's number one sports picks app. We have multiple MVPs going on, raising their games to new heights. Rookie class ready to take over. While all teams are fighting for playoff positioning. Nickel app with player stats. Pick game winner spreads or totals and combine your picks in the same lineup. All on prize picks now available in all 50 states, including California, Texas, Georgia and Florida. Coffin, I'm back.
- [23:49]
Adam Kaufman
You're back.
- [23:50]
Evan Valenti
We have a. We have a flex play Friday, buddy. Coming at you. We're going. It's coming at you on a Thursday. So I apologize.
- [23:56]
Adam Kaufman
That's all right.
- [23:57]
Evan Valenti
We're using Yuri Perez. More than six K's versus the Mets. Today we're gonna use Sonny Gray in the red hot Red Sox. I love saying that. I haven't said that all year. It's great.
- [24:07]
Adam Kaufman
You are so bad.
- [24:09]
Evan Valenti
I know, right? More than 3 1/2 K's versus the A's. Then we'll, we'll, you know, finalize things. Helio Ramos. More than half a hit against the Padres. Just gotta get one hit there, guy. Flex play three extra money. If I don't get. If I get two out of three. If I don't get three, but I get two out of three, you have my money back. That's a win for me. So I don't know about you guys, but the prize picks outside of football season has been a little tough. So we get back to some of my money back. I'll take that. And getting your money convenient as well as 50 minutes. Watch that money roll into Whatever account you choose could be Venmo, your bank account, whatever, but it doesn't matter.
- [24:44]
Adam Kaufman
So download the Prize Picks app Today, use code CLNS. Get $150 instantly in lineups if you win your first five dollar lineup. Again, download the app today, use the code CLNS. Get $150 Instantly in lineups if you win ten, your first five dollars lineup. Let's get back to the show. Back here with Barrett again, host the off the pike podcast, Spotify, and of course, the ringer there. So I don't want to keep going with, you know, LeBron conversation so much as perception around the league now. You know, we weighed in, gave our thoughts clearly, Brad Stevens. Like, I, I don't, I don't think Brad, when The announcement of LeBron to Philly came out, was losing any sleep. Well, we played a role in causing this as we talked about. Like, even if fans feel a certain way about it, I don't think Brad feels any which way about it. But I do wonder, you know, what do you suppose the league believes? You know, teams need to take care of themselves. They need to build in their own way. They need to avoid the second apron and all of those penalties. The Knicks reportedly weren't even interested in acquiring LeBron. Pardon me, in the wake of their championship. And obviously okc, San Antonio, Denver, like, they've got their own financial things they're trying to get through in the West. But do you think that the league looks at this and believes there is a better chance than not of it being successful, or is this just, you know, more team hopping and. And roster chasing from LeBron at the tail end of his career?
- [26:20]
Brian Barrett
Well, I would wager that the league's upset about it because that looked like a franchise that was pretty much dead and buried. Right? Like, the conversations coming out of the offseason or coming off the series they lost to the Knicks were, well, Joel Embiid's contract isn't movable. Ironically, Paul George's contract's not movable, right? And of course he gets traded to the Celtics, but it's, hey, this team's not very good. They had one great week against the Celtics when Embiid was healthy for like three consecutive games and he destroyed the Celtics. He was awesome in that series when he came back from the injury, but they're like a huge life raft. They got Jalen Brown and then they got LeBron. Like, I know he's older and I know Embiid has dealt with all these injuries, but if. And it's a big if, if they can stay relatively healthy into the postseason, obviously they're going to manage those guys. Minutes like that has to, that team has to be taken seriously. They have four guys that any given night can get you 30 points. I don't know how many other teams around the league we could say that about. Right. Like legitimately, like it wouldn't be surprising if any of those four guys had a 30 point game in the postseason. For three of them, they could have 40 point games in the postseason. I think the only person that like, I don't think he's personally upset, but Vijay EdgeCom, I mean RIP to his development, is like an on ball player this year. He's going to get none of that. But I think this, like, I know we can make the jokes about Embiid, but he was so scary in that series against the Celtics and there's not many. When he's right, there's not many people that can slow him down. Outside of himself, I do think he's going to be a major liability for them defensively because he just doesn't get back. But outside of the Knicks, there's not a roster right now in the Eastern Conference that's better than them. We saw the Cavs in the playoffs and Harden. Detroit didn't do much to add to its team. I think the wild card in all this is going to be Indiana because of course Halliburton's coming back from the injury. Miami's roster stinks like they have two great players and the rest of the roster is not particularly good. I don't really take that team seriously. I think we're not going to be able to take them seriously, at least for another offseason. That's why I think Giannis made a mistake like wanting to go to Miami. But nonetheless, I think Philly's right up there and that's going to be. I think they'll have a lot of trouble guarding the Knicks, but I think the Knicks, as great as they are defensively, I think they'll have a lot of trouble covering a healthy Philly team.
- [28:40]
Evan Valenti
Yeah, I think when you look at what Philly is not going to be great at defensively, I think you can ask some questions. I think just from a health state. I mean, look, we lived it with Brady. You know, Brady was an absolute freakazoid in terms of his health until he was 45 years old and probably watches football on Sundays when he's clown games and things can still play out there. But you're relying on a 41 year old who has logged more minutes, scored more points than anybody in the history of asphalt. I mean, he's just a marvel. And then you have a guy in Nick Nurse who is notorious for, like, riding like, Tyrese Maxey played a kajillion minutes last year, too. I don't know if you guys clocked. Yeah, I think he was, like, top three, top five in minutes last year. So, you know, whereas Boston's gonna try and. And put the pieces together with, you know, depth and trying to throw as many guys out there as humanly possible. So I think, you know, Philly on paper is scary as hell. Again. I'm. I'm waiting to see how this all turns out. On paper, they're scary, but I. I see some. Some holes there. And in Boston, you know, it's probably going to try hard because everybody's been, you know, you know how Joe Missoula goes. Missoula's gonna take all the stuff. Like, there was that great bit from Levitard show where he was kind of calling out Bill and Bill show for saying that Miami had the worst off season of anybody or whatever. They're the biggest losers of the off season. And they had a lot of quotes that were. Would be great. Both the board materials. Again, everybody still thinks we suck. Guys, like, don't worry about. Just channel all that. We'll try as hard as we can the regular season and see what happens. Like, I think the regular season will be fascinating because I think you're going to have a lot of teams trying to manage certain things, but I think Boston's gonna be one of the teams that's going to try really hard to. To win as many games as possible, because that's the Joe Missoula mantra. That's just what he's been doing.
- [30:29]
Brian Barrett
Yeah. My one concern about the Celtics during the regular season is I think that Tatum is going to do a better job at the Jalen role than Jalen did last year. Like, I don't think it's out of the question that Tatum averages 27, close to 10 rebounds, and north of six assists. I think that's totally realistic for Tatum. And I think when they once. What's that?
- [30:49]
Adam Kaufman
I think you're short in the points.
- [30:51]
Brian Barrett
Oh, you think you close to 30?
- [30:53]
Adam Kaufman
Yeah.
- [30:54]
Brian Barrett
So it possibly could, depending on the minutes. But the other thing I'll say is, like, all right, when they're all playing, I think the Celtics have two really good units, because I think what they'll do, especially with the slump that Derrick Whitehead last year and sort of the synergy him and Tatum have. I. And personally I would start Robinson because I think it's more difficult to do hackamage if he plays the first six minutes rather than the last six minutes of the quarter because then you have those final four before the two minutes. So I think they'll do that and I think they'll have Tatum and White play the majority of the first quarter and then have Paul George and Pritchard align together and they come out after the first six minutes and then they come back to start the second quarter because then you have two guys that can create offense in Pritchard and Paul George on that first unit. As much as I like Derrick White, he's not going to break you down off the dribble. That's just not what he does. But they do have this great two man game with him and Tatum. You also have 48 minutes of really good center play and 48 minutes of outstanding rebounding. Like Keita is an incredible rebounder, as is Mitchell Robinson, who we all know. Missoula knows that better than anybody else. And Tatum by the way, is an outstanding rebounder. My concern with the team during the regular season though is this. I would wager that likely three of your top five players are sitting out back to backs. Robinson isn't playing back to backs. I would imagine 36 year old Paul George isn't playing most of the back to backs and I wouldn't really want to push it with Tatum. Right. I know it's, it's. Yeah. So I think you've got to be careful when it comes to that capacity. So it's just sort of like mapping it out when those guys sit out games because those are three really important players. And the other component to this is how many teams and obviously the lottery rules have changed. So this is part of it. How many teams can we definitively say in the east are tanking like Brooklyn because Washington was a perennial tanker they got to ban. So they have Trae Young, they have Anthony Davis. Even if that's a weird situation, Indiana was a tanker. Their team is now healthy. Atlanta is now a good team. We saw in the postseason a year ago. Toronto took its step forward last year, like that's a solid team. How many teams are going to be terrible in the Eastern Conference? Right. So even if you look out west like okay, now Utah is going to start trying. So across the league you're going to have, I think now injuries always play into it, but you're going to have less bad teams than you've had in the past. So I think there's a way that the Celtics team, if you look at the totality of the season, you could say, all right, the Tatum led Celtics, it looks better, it's better than the Celtics last year with Jalen, that got the two seed, but you could finish with the worst record considering the circumstances with the guys sitting out back to backs. And then secondarily with just the nature of the league now in this new era with the lottery situation, well, that
- [33:39]
Adam Kaufman
goes back to, and this is for anybody, how do you define success for a team? You know, for me, when you have a good team or a very good team or a great team, it's not about the regular season win total. Unless of course you're one of those warriors teams that's chasing a record or obviously the Thunder in recent years, that kind of thing. But short of that, like I think, and I'm assuming you guys agree roster to roster last year, this year, the Celtics on paper are a better team this coming year than they were last year. However, that team overachieved. It was a try hard and that's not a criticism you want your teams to try hard, but they were just hard working and tough to beat most nights. Now, Brad Stevens talked about the whole three and 11 against the top teams in the league. So you still weren't beating the really good teams, but in a general sense you were beating the crap out of the bad ones. And so winning 56 games to me is not the barometer. I don't expect this team to win 56 games. I'll be surprised if it wins 56 games. Like you said, the east top to bottom is more competitive. Where I'm matching up this team versus last year is playoffs. Now last year's team shouldn't clearly have blown a 31 series lead on Philadelphia in round one and lost, but nevertheless, it is a team that went down in round one. I don't expect this team to lose in the first round of the playoffs. This to me is a team that at least gets to the second round, which just short of anything else, that automatically makes it a better team than last year's team. So that's kind of how I'm looking at it. But. But do I think they're a contender? Do I think they're a team that realistically, you know, gets through all of these other teams that we're talking about and in the Eastern Conference and reaches the NBA finals? I don't believe they're that. I don't think Brad Stevens and Mike Zarin and Joe Missoula, you know, would, would truth serum believe that they're that. I think Brad has pretty much acknowledged that anyway now they could make moves at the trade deadline. That changed my perception. Just like everybody changed their opinions on last year's Celtics. When Tatum came back and looked the way he looked and the team was playing at the level that it was playing. It was, oh my goodness, wait a minute. And the betting odds, you know, all of a sudden vaulted the Celtics to overwhelming favorites. To win the east. We move the goal posts. It's what we do. And that's fine. But as we look at it right now, better roster, better playoff results, I think. But that doesn't make it a great team.
- [36:13]
Evan Valenti
Well, no, obviously not. But I do think that you can measure success a little differently this year. I think in Brad's point of the east is going to be better. He couldn't have been more right about that. I mean you go, you just went down the list. Look who's going to be better. Everybody's gonna be better. The exception of Brooklyn. And what the hell is Brooklyn doing? Why they're not trading for Jalen Brown? I don't understand. Nobody ever get that. They, they still have those five first round picks that. Are any of them good? We don't never know. But right. Like, like you have to evaluate things differently. Goal post move, all that stuff. I think this year will be very interesting in the regular season from you know, the, the, the, the guys in the periphery once again, like it's going to be about, like I, I've had this little secret hot take. I'm holstering and waiting. Like are we sure that they're not going to start Hugo Gonzalez? Like are we sure that that's not. He's not going to start by at some point in the season and, and still have Pritchard come off the bench and roll out a Derrick White, Ugo, Paul George Tatum and Mitch Robinson lineup. I don't think they will because there's a lack of, as you guys have said, like shot creation with that lineup. Unless Ugo's point guard, summer league play is going to translate to big league minutes. But like, you know, I'm way more interested in that kind of stuff to see what to see how guys shake out. But like the regular season I would expect them to take a step back to take a step forward in the playoffs.
- [37:34]
Brian Barrett
Fair.
- [37:34]
Evan Valenti
I don't know about you. Yeah.
- [37:36]
Brian Barrett
And I think they have and this is something. And maybe this is part of the whole Ugo not being put in the trade for Giannis is. Brad did talk a ton. I know he said optionality a million times in that press conference, but he also talked about depth and I do think that is important, more so in today's NBA than it's ever been in in the past because of the amount of injuries you have and really with older players taking so many games off nowadays. But think about the team like there is real depth on this team. The one thing like from a playoff perspective, you need another guy that can break people down and score. That's where I think the regular season, the Celtics have won a ton of games because they're going to win what Missoula says, all the margins, they just became a better. They were what, six in defensive rebounding percentage last year. You bring back Tatum, only played in 16 games. You can make a legitimate argument that he's the best non center rebounder in the NBA. He's been that good of a rebounder throughout his career. Mitchell Robinson is one of the best rebounders in the NBA. Heck, he's the best offensive rebounder. So that adds to your margin game I mentioned. Kate is a great rebounder. And by the way, you're going to shoot more threes than anybody else in the NBA. So ordinarily I know this is a hot topic. You're going to win that battle. Paul George just shot 39% from 3 on 6.9 attempts. I'll tell you this, those attempts are going up considering the coach that he's playing for. Like from a fit perspective and this is not talking about the value in the trade. Paul George like fits on this team. Like it's really a good fit. Like you don't have to make many adjustments because Paul George, like to his credit, he's had like a bunch of different careers at this point. Guy in Indiana, he's the guy becomes the guy. With Westbrook, he finished third in MVP and he's played with all these superstars like Kawhi and Harden at the same time. So he's actually a really good off the ball player compared to like Jalen's great on the ball, but off the ball like Paul George, really good getting around screens, getting open for jumpers. Like you can do a bunch of that stuff with Paul George and then the depth of the team. Shireman's minutes are going to go up. And this is something that just infuriated me during the postseason when they just went away from guys like Ugo and Scheireman was playing significantly less than he was down the stretch of the regular season, like, Shireman's going to have an opportunity to make more plays. Especially in those games I mentioned when guys are sitting out like, Shireman's going to have the ball in his hands, running some pick and rolls. And with Shireman, it's crazy because I was having a conversation earlier like, who's going to have a better season, Ugo or Shireman? And I think the answer is Shireman. Just because he's further along in his development, because he's entering year three at 26, Ugo's entering year two at 20. Like that's fascinating to me. There's a six year age gap between your first round pick two years ago and your first round pick a year ago. So from that perspective, like Hugo, all the impact metrics, he had the best on off differential on the team last year. Hugo Gonzalez did. He's going to be guarding the elite players. Like you're not going to ask Jason Tatum to do that because you have guys like Ugo, Derrick White when it comes to the perimeter. So I think from a depth perception, it's going to be really fascinating to see. And Walsh, they signed him to a new contract. Walsh, I mean, he can do his thing. Defensively, I, I know the numbers look great. I still don't trust the jump shot, obviously. And I don't. I gave him credit for this. Like, his shot fake is incredible. I don't know how everybody in the league seems to go for it when it's like he's not that great of a shooter. Like, why would you go for that shot fake? But this is my roundabout way of saying, like, I do think this team is like sort of regular season proof. They're going to be really good. I would say that. But I just think if you're going to make a serious run in the postseason in 2027, and that ultimately may not be the goal of the team, there does have to be one more sort of star level player that's in between Tatum and whoever you're saying is the second best player on the team. Whether it's Paul George, Derrick White or Peyton Pritchard. There has to be an upgrade on that spot.
- [41:27]
Evan Valenti
I have just a quick, real quick. Just, just because Barrett said something that kind of triggered a question in my head and it's. And I know the answer to this already, but it's just, it's gonna make for good discussion. It's July, for crying out loud. We gotta figure something out. Is it possible? Because Bear, I think, lined up something a lot of people have talked about is the fit of Paul George with the Celtics team, specifically with Jason Tatum being the batman of the entire team. Is it possible? And Barrett, maybe you can respond to this as well. After confidence. I want to get confident on this. Is it possible that Paul George fits this team better than Jalen does or at this particular stage his career? I know the shot creation and being able to break down your guy off the dribble like we've talked about that. That's clearly something that boss is going to need. But do they. Pritchard can maybe come up and do some of that. I'm not sure White can really handle some of that. But maybe having Jason B point Tatum, as I've been calling for, for years, is it possible cop that Paul George sliding in is actually a better fit for the way this team wants to play?
- [42:21]
Brian Barrett
Play?
- [42:22]
Adam Kaufman
Yes, it's absolutely possible. And I say that as someone that hated the trade. So I, I want to start with that. I wanted to be known for anyone out there that is that that is thinks I. I continually bury Jason Tatum or Jaylen Brown, pardon me, on the show. That's, you know, like that's my reputation around here is like I'm a Jaylen hater. I didn't like the trade. But you can absolutely make the case that as you said at this stage, that right now and at this stage is a little loose because I feel like I could use it in one way with Jalen that's not really favorable for him and then sort of ignore those things with Paul George and. And that would have like. It's hard to say when you're doing the whole at this stage thing. It's hard to not take into account age and injury history with Paul George. All right, so we're playing make believe. We're playing pretend and saying, let's just say Paul George is healthy this year and healthy as Barrett outlined. I think most Celtics fans would be not just satisfied but like giddy over Paul George giving you 50 regular season games and then he's healthy for the playoffs. So nobody's talking about Paul George playing, you know, in 75 games or something like that. He's going to be load managed like anybody else, as has been discussed. But Paul George is a 3 and D guy. This system is 3 and D largely. So if he is shooting the way he has been shooting and he's getting off ball open, looks like crazy from Tatum or White or Pritchard or whoever else and actually shoots in the, you know, mid-40s from three, coupled with the defense he's capable of playing in the games that he is available at the yo. Low usage numbers that he would project to have. I think absolutely, Paul George can be a strong fit for this team. Now, do I think that George is going to average 20 points a game? No. That would surprise me. You know, I think you're looking for, I don't know, somewhere in the like 16 to 18 range or something like that. And anything above that, you'd be thrilled, obviously. But Jalen, what unfortunately really helped the team last year without Tatum and now works against him and certainly again doesn't bode well for fit in Philadelphia is he has became an exceptionally high usage guy. I mean, those usage numbers, like he was putting up usage numbers last year that Larry Bird didn't put up in Boston. So he, you know, it was at times, and we talked about this constantly, especially in the playoffs, and Tatum was guilty of it as well. It's just Brown was more guilty of it. Historically, it was an offense killer. It was stagnant.
- [45:05]
Evan Valenti
It.
- [45:05]
Adam Kaufman
It was too ISO heavy. It. The ball died in his hands at points. I mean, this is just a fact. That's not to say Jaylee Brown isn't a great player. He is. But the fit, you could make a strong argument Paul George right now is a better fit for this offense.
- [45:19]
Evan Valenti
He was over eight threes.
- [45:20]
Brian Barrett
I was just gonna say, like, Paul George last year is over eight threes. Yeah, over eight threes per 36 minutes. And the numbers are really good. The catch and shoot numbers are awesome. With Paul George, he was like 45, I believe, on catch and shoot a season ago. So. And the one component that I think has not been brought up a lot with Paul George is obviously he missed that time last year. It was because of the suspension, though. So it wasn't like he was dealing like he came back from the injury and then he got the suspension. So it's not like this year, like so many other years in his career, he's recovering from an off season injury. The other component to this, and I got to give our buddy Joe Murray credit on this one, Kaufman, he made a really good point where Paul George has in the past been one of the better players in the league. Obviously he's not at that level anymore. But I will admit I was shocked at how well he defended in the series against the Celtics. Like, he's always been a great defender, but I thought Jalen's athleticism would overwhelm him and it really didn't. Like, you could argue that he was the best wing in that series when Tatum and Jalen Brown were also in that series. And so to me, what is his motivation level at? Because this whole summer people have been talking about what a dumb trade the Celtics made. How did all you get back was Paul George? And if you're Paul George, you're like, wait, hold on. Like everybody's clowning the Celtics because of me. So you would think like that lights a fire in the player to be motivated. And I'm not saying that means he plays 75 games. Like I said, I would be surprised, surprised if he meets the 65 game threshold because that's his recent track record in the NBA. I'm more encouraged that he's not recovering from something this particular off season. But for a guy that has finished in the past third in the MVP voting, Right, like, you have to be like a special player in terms of your fire and to be constantly an all NBA defensive player in the past. I'm not saying he can reach back into prime athleticism or anything along those lines, but I think like, that's sort of the underrated part. We talk so much about Jalen's motivation that the Celtics traded him to Philadelphia. I think there's going to be a motivation with Paul George to prove like, hey, I'm still a really good player and can still be a really effective player. So I think that's kind of gone under the radar with George is like what his motivation is going to be to try to. Because look, he's like the laugh. Like everybody laughed at the trade because of him.
- [47:46]
Evan Valenti
Yeah, I agree with that. It's, it's, it's going to be more motive. Again, Joe Missoula knows how to motivate guys. I wonder what would like, because like, Joe goes to Portugal and hangs out with Keda and then he went to Spain to go hang out with Ugo. And obviously I think earlier part of the off season he went to like Creighton and hang and you know, shot around a little bit with, with Shireman. I wonder if he'll just pop on Paul's podcast and be like, I'm just gonna come hang out and. Because like the one thing that Joe Mazzilla does do is try to connect to his guys on more than just a level of, you know, I'm your coach, whatever. You just try and, and cultivate real relationships with his guys. I wonder if, if he'll pop on a, a Paul, Paul George podcast and let Paul George's interview, does he still have it? I don't I don't know. I haven't, I haven't checked lately.
- [48:31]
Adam Kaufman
Yeah, I don't, I don't think so. I think podcast P needs to fire that up again because not enough content in the Celtics podcast space.
- [48:40]
Evan Valenti
I think.
- [48:40]
Adam Kaufman
Philly, do any teams have two, you know, like simultaneous active player podcasts? Like Derek White's already got one. So if Paul George has his as well, do any teams out there, I mean, obviously there are teams that have multiple players from one team on one podcast, like the Knicks, you know, you got all the Villanova guys and all that stuff. But are there separate podcasts, you know, within teams that rival dueling podcasts?
- [49:04]
Brian Barrett
I'm not sure.
- [49:04]
Adam Kaufman
We'd have to look that up. My question though, before the guys was, you know, and this is where I will give Brown some credit. I mean, Browns do a lot of credit, so don't take that the wrong way. But you knew that the Celtics, or I guess not new. There were a lot of people that thought the Celtics were going to suck going into last year. I believed, and I think a lot of people believed the Celtics in a general sense were going to be fine. They'd be a playoff team. They'd be a top four team in the East. That's how I looked at them. I didn't see two seat and 56 wins, but I thought they would be just fine with Jalen Brown as the alpha, as the Batman, as the 1A all of these things. And obviously they were. And he had a career year. I didn't worry about him carrying the offense without Jason Tatum. What I will say is Paul George is not the Paul George he used to be. Unless, you know, he found the fountain of youth and, and, and that HGH last year did wonders for what's going to happen this year. But I don't know if Jason Tatum, heaven forbid, miss an extended period of time and that could be a couple weeks, few weeks. You know, it doesn't have to be like, oh my God, the guy's out for half the season. I don't know who carries you on a consistent basis because I don't believe it's Derek White and I don't believe it's Peyton Pritchard and I don't believe it's Paul George. So, you know, one off guys like, oh, Tatum's unavailable for this Wednesday night game because it's a back to back and they're load managing. I'm like, fine. White can carry you on a night. Pritchard kitten carry on a night. George can carry On a night. But I don't know who can carry you for a period of time on this roster. So that is. That's. That's one concern that I do have in the wake of this deal.
- [50:49]
Evan Valenti
Yeah, I think it's valid, too. I mean.
- [50:51]
Brian Barrett
Yeah.
- [50:54]
Evan Valenti
Yeah. Talk about a little bit. I just think. I think, you know, some guys are going to maybe have to play above their roles to see how this goes. I mean, again, I. I don't think that having a panic about. About what happens, like, on a night where Jason goes out. But, like, again, how many times have you seen in the past where guys have done really well? Like, there's. There's going to be a Ron Harper Jr. Moment at some point during this season. Maybe. Like, look at the last game. I mean, again, Orlando, whatever the hell that was with Orlando, where Charman went for what, 30 plus, right? And Orlando was, like, trying to, like, gain seating, and. And Charman just, like, took it to him for the. It got real hot at the end of the game. So, like, there's gonna be moments like that, and you have to embrace those. Be some. Some growing pains, much like last year, but it's all about the greater good at the end of the line, I think.
- [51:44]
Brian Barrett
Yeah. They were 9 and 2 without Jalen last year.
- [51:48]
Adam Kaufman
Yeah.
- [51:50]
Evan Valenti
What was the factor in who they played, though? We know who they played during that particular stretch of nine and two. That's usually, like, bad teams.
- [51:56]
Adam Kaufman
I don't recall.
- [51:58]
Evan Valenti
It's like, you know, I'm not sure if it's like, Utah or Isn't this like this.
- [52:01]
Adam Kaufman
This wasn't isolated to last year, like, after the dream numbers that came out, that, like, the Celtics record without Jalen over the last four years or something like that. Now, granted, Tatum was available for a lot of those, but.
- [52:13]
Evan Valenti
Yeah, right. Havisho had that for sure. He had that. It's like that. That we. Not weird. It's a great piece with a piece that. Details.
- [52:21]
Adam Kaufman
Here are all the different reasons the Jalen Brown sucks. Now read on.
- [52:27]
Evan Valenti
Yeah, that was basically it. It was great. It was, again, a great piece and framed some things, but, like, it was
- [52:31]
Adam Kaufman
an analytical hit piece.
- [52:33]
Evan Valenti
Yeah.
- [52:35]
Brian Barrett
The one thing I will say, though, about that, like, if Tatum is out, obviously, that's a major concern. If Tatum's out, obviously. But the one thing I think the Celtics. And this is annoying when it gets to the postseason, because it feels like there's a lack of adjustments and a lack of adjustments until game seven, until you pulled, like, maybe one of the craziest adjustments We've seen to start Ron Harper in that particular game and it took you until game seven to take Lucevich out. But they really do have like a steady formula to win regular season games. Because as crazy and as annoying as it gets when Joe talks about the margins, think about this team right now just in terms of they, they're not going to turn the basketball over. Like, and this is nothing against Jayla, but he's the one guy that could be like a volatile turnover type player. And we saw it specifically in the Philly series when he also had the most offensive fouls in the first round of the playoffs. But Pritchard is an incredibly low turnover player. Right. So when you think about it like they're not going to turn the ball over. They're probably going to be one of the best five offensive rebounding teams in the NBA. And I would say that's conservative because obviously the amount of games Mitchell Robinson plays is going to factor into this. But this team is also really good at corner crashing. Like Shireman may be one of the best guys in the sport at that like battle where he gets underneath the basket, he just bats it out. The offensive rebounding percentage goes up by almost 2 percentage points when Ugo's on the court. So you're probably going to win the rebounding battle. Like I would not be surprised if they end up being the best rebounding team in the NBA. I think like, obviously San Antonio is going to have an argument there, but I think the Celtics could be a top three rebounding team. I think they'll be in the bottom or, excuse me, 1, 2 or 3. They were number one last year in terms of fewest turnovers. So they're not going to give points off their turnovers. They're going to win the three point margin every game in terms of the attempts. They'll probably win every game. And I know people get sick of it, but during the regular season, like those things, winning the three point battle, winning the turnover battle and winning the rebounding battle, the Celtics are going to do that three out of every four games. And maybe even more than that, maybe even, you know, four out of every five games, they do that 80% of the time. Let's say they're going to win those margins, right? Or at least they're going to win two out of the three. And the ones they don't. It's a rare off night where they just maybe they're not shooting the ball well. They have one of these like rare crazy turnover games. But those things like have proven to be sustainable contributors to winning regular season basketball games. Different conversation in the postseason, but I do think since they have that foundation, that's why they're guaranteed to win so many regular season games. Yeah.
- [55:10]
Adam Kaufman
All right, I'll. I'll. I'll wrap with this. Just the. In talking about. Not it can be about Brown if you want, but more just sort of the. The move itself and guys of that magnitude in their prime years leaving a team because we are fans at our core, whether of the Celtics or any other team or sport. Brown is in all likelihood a future hall of Famer. He's gonna have seven up in the rafters. He's won a championship. He's a Finals mvp. He's obviously incredibly accomplished. Means a lot to the city.
- [55:44]
Brian Barrett
The.
- [55:45]
Adam Kaufman
Excuse me.
- [55:46]
Evan Valenti
The.
- [55:46]
Adam Kaufman
The work he has done off the court, as I've said in doing this podcast for God damn near a decade at. At this point, the. The work that, you know, the impact Jaylen Brown has made off the floor is going to follow him tenfold over what he does on the court. Special guy. Special player. Well, special guy. I don't know if he's a special player. He's a special guy.
- [56:12]
Evan Valenti
He's a special player. Come on, man.
- [56:14]
Adam Kaufman
So what. What I'm drilling down at here is I think as you age, in a general sense, I think as you age, your fandom changes. You know, you sort of get clued in more to the realities of the business of sport that you didn't pay attention to or were naive to as. As a kid, right? When it was just like, oh, my God, I love this guy. I think. Excuse me, for me, I'll. I'll speak for myself here.
- [56:44]
Evan Valenti
It.
- [56:44]
Adam Kaufman
There. There was a real switch with, you know, the point where I started to get older than all the players. You know, I. I didn't, you know, I wasn't a fan the same way that I was growing up that, you know, where, you know, you idolize these guys and everybody's older than you. Like, I have trouble, you know, viewing a, you know, a Jason Tatum or a Drake May or whoever that same way, because these dudes are half my age, practically. I'm wondering if you were emotional in any way about Jalen Brown no longer being a Celtic and if you would feel a certain way about Jason Tatum getting dealt that you didn't feel about Brown, just sort of how you view these guys as it relates to your personal fandom. Because, excuse me, I get choked up. Right? I know a lot of people on social media at the very least, were beside themselves about Brown no longer being part of this organization for any number of different reasons. On court, off the court, community presence, just the dude, likability, homegrown, you name it. Curious about how you felt about it in that sense.
- [58:01]
Brian Barrett
Yeah, it obviously stunk because he had so many great moments for the organization. Right. You think back to the playoff run when he won both the Eastern Conference Finals MVP and the Finals mvp. Although you could argue that he shouldn't have won the Finals mvp. I thought it should have been Tatum. But he had arguably the biggest moment in that series when he hit the big shot in game three to put them up four and essentially ice the series because he went up three games to none, of course. Hits the buzzer beater at the end of regulation in Game 1 against Indiana. And he. He was the guy that stopped Luka. Like, that was so fun. You have Jrue Holiday on your team, and the guy you decide to put on Luca is Jalen Brown. And when Jalen, like, obviously at times he can fall asleep off ball defense, but when he has an assignment, he's really damn good at it. We saw it in that series, so it sucks. But the one thing, like it really is going to be unfortunate to see him wearing a Philadelphia uniform, but because this is the way the league going, it's something that I feel like you're just gonna have to get used to because the reality of where the sport is at, Adam Silver, like, the one sort of group that he doesn't care about, he does not care about fans. He doesn't care about fans at all. Because the whole CDA that they created is so teams cannot stay together. And the whole idea of why people are fans of teams is because Bird and Mikhail basically play their entire career together. Jordan played as like the last stretch with Scottie Pippen for those eight years or whatever it was at the end, right? Those things are not going to exist anymore. Silver has said he doesn't want them to exist. Like, he's trying to challenge teams that do things well. Like Oklahoma City is going kind of go through some of this as well. Silver, all he cares about is the TV deal. And obviously, like, that benefits both the players and the ownership groups, which it should. The only because the players are still getting all their money. Like Jaylen Brown's getting the money that the Celtics owed him. Paul George is getting the money where everybody called it a bad contract with Philadelphia. So all these players are still making their money with the exception of LeBron at the end of his Career. Trey Young just got a massive extension. All these guys are getting their money. So the players are not hurt by this in terms of money. The fact that they came out and complained about the Jaylen Brown trade and stuff, it's like you guys agreed to the cba. You guys are the one that's agreed to it. Where smart teams can't keep their teams together, which that's what I think has been. Is great about sports, is the main group stays together if it's good for like at least six years, but like a decade. And the 2024 Celtics stayed together for two years, which was like one of the dominant teams of the past 10 years, if you just look at it statistically, obviously was behind that OKC team. But the reality is, like, going forward now, and I know this is about Jaylen Brown and how emotional I was about him leaving, but the reality is Silver doesn't want you to, like, he doesn't want teams to be together for a long time. That's the only conclusion you can draw. And he's so full of crap, too, at the press conference where he's talking about, hey, well, look at this, it's working. We have the smallest. One of the smallest markets against one of the biggest markets. Well, no team can duplicate what either one of those teams did because no star like Jalen Brunson is going to take $100 million haircut, have his dad on the coaching staff and get all his friends. I'm sorry, no other team in the league is going to be able to pull that off. And then with the spurs, which is so crazy that nobody called him out on this dude, the spurs made the finals because they had three consecutive. First. First round picks that ended up in the top five. They got in the top five. They got unbelievable generational talent in Wemby because other teams were stupid. Castle fell to them with what, the fourth pick? And then they got the number two pick because Wemby had. What was it?
- [61:45]
Adam Kaufman
A. It.
- [61:46]
Brian Barrett
Was it a blood clot or something? So then they end up getting the second pick in the draft and Dylan Harper, guess how many teams can do that going forward? None of them.
- [61:55]
Evan Valenti
None.
- [61:55]
Brian Barrett
You can't get three consecutive picks. So his whole idea of, well, look, it's working. This is. No, it's not the only. It was a rare situation that it actually worked. That can never be duplicated. I'm telling you, it's never. The Jalen Brunson situation is not happening, where you're gonna have a dad and friends and take less money and literally, by your rules, the San Antonio situation can't happen again.
- [62:16]
Evan Valenti
Yeah, I mean, it's, that's why, like, when, when Boston outsourced their tank into the Nets, it was just the best of both worlds because you can win and then have the Nets lose and everything, Everything's awesome. And that's the thing, the continuity part of this, which is going to get eliminated here with, with these new CBA rules, that's what's going to kill everything. And I, like you guys, we were re romanticized rooting for guys their whole careers. And yeah, of course I was emotional when they traded Jalen because Jalen entered the league, like, basically when I started covering basketball, like, professionally. So I, you know, I was at that draft, you know, I got to ask Jaylen a question. And so I've always kind of like, started my professional journey with, with Jalen. And, you know, he's been in my life, in everybody's life that listens to this podcast for a decade. He've watched him grow up, and he's grown up into an awesome guy. So it's, it's tough. But, you know, that's business and that's, and that's, we all, let's get used to that now and that is it good for basketball? I've asked cover, I've asked everybody, like, everybody that comes on the show is a good thing that they're going to keep doing this. I remember Dana Vi was like, we're gonna find out if it's good because, you know, we'll see how these, these, these numbers do or whatever. But I don't know if it's great for the basketball play on the court, but we'll find out. I don't know. I, I, I wish it wasn't this way, but it's what we're dealt, so we have to deal with it. Right?
- [63:29]
Brian Barrett
Well, just think about this. Like, the Garnett Pierce, Ray Allen Celtics, they were together from 0708 until what, 2012, 2013. Ray, of course, left a year earlier to go to Miami. But thinking about those guys, ages at the time, and say, you know what? That group's going to be together, like, I don't know, four more seasons than the 2024 Celtics. Like, the thing about the Big Three era, like, that was taken to its logical conclusion after you lost that postseason series to the Knicks in 13. You knew, like, yeah, it's over. Like, it's time to move on. This team is not a contender anymore. The teams now are not going to be taken to Their logical conclusion because of the rules. Like, it's. It's crazy to me that that's when like the fact that Drew Holiday is only a member of the Celtics for two years, like, sucks. Like, he is such an entertaining player and such like a, A good teammate and all that. And you feel like this is an unbelievable trade. It's like, yeah, but you know what, guys? We can't keep them. Like, that's, that's not how the sports. Like, you shouldn't get punished for being good at your job. And that's essentially what's going to happen. What's already happened to the Celtics. It's starting to happen a little bit to okc, the Spurs. It's going to take time because all their guys are on rookie cons. I mean, I guess Wemby's is about to kick in after this upcoming season, but like, so they'll have some time, but eventually it's going to happen to them and as well, unless something changes. And that's the one thing I'm like, if they make a rule, because everyone's suggesting, like, hey, if it's your player, it should only be 25 of the cap instead of the 35. And WEMBY's already. I guess Wendy took a little bit of a discount too, going back to the Brunson point. Yeah, but if they actually make that change and Brad suggested it, remember, at the press conference, like, if it's your guy and you give him a super max, he gets all the money. But it only counts 25 against the salary cap. However they figure that out, if they make that change after what we saw happen to the Celtics, I'm going to be so pissed off because it's like, well, our team got broken up under that dumb thing that you just acknowledged.
- [65:18]
Evan Valenti
Yeah, would be. It's. It was one of the best teams I've ever seen too. It was.
- [65:23]
Adam Kaufman
I, I agree, like, I agree with the sentiment. I'm not sure even if Jalen Brown was counting 25 against your cap, but they were still paying him what they were paying him. I think they just wanted to get out of that contract. I, I think this is a little
- [65:40]
Brian Barrett
bit different, but to Brad's point, it would only be with Those combined players 50% of the salary cap rather than 70% of the salary cap. And when they won the championship, I believe, what was it like, 47% of the cap. So it would be much more manageable and it'd be much more.
- [65:55]
Adam Kaufman
No, in terms of roster building, it would be manageable. My point is, I think, and maybe I'm wrong about this and maybe this is a, obviously it's a conversation other people have had. Maybe it's one that we have another time because we're going to wrap up. But I, I think I, I kind of think they were just ready to move on from the player.
- [66:11]
Evan Valenti
Yeah.
- [66:12]
Brian Barrett
Yeah. Certainly. Yeah.
- [66:13]
Adam Kaufman
Yeah. I mean, not, not the person. This is not, this is not Jalen Slander. I think they were ready to move on from Jalen Brown, the player. And it really wasn't about the money or the the cap dedication and all of that. But again, that's been out there. So. Reminder subscribe to the podcast Rate review all those good things Audio version Spotify Wherever you get your podcast and of course video CLNS media YouTube page. There are many pages sub pages and you can find awesome Patriots, Red Sox, Bruins and naturally Celtics content. Do not forget, check out Barrett's podcast Off the Bike, available for you on Spotify, part of the Ringer Network. Barrett, we always enjoy when you pop on with us.
- [66:55]
Brian Barrett
Had a ton of fun guys. Thanks for having me.
- [66:57]
Evan Valenti
Of course.
- [66:57]
Adam Kaufman
Brian Barrett Evan Valenti, I'm Adam Kaufman. EV will be driving next week. Enjoy it. Look forward to listening. Everybody will talk to you again in August.