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A
Today is Thursday, August 6th and this is Celticsby on CLNS Media, the leading online provider of audio video coverage. The Boston Celtics Evan Valenti solo today. Episode 688 features co host the you know, ball podcast and former co host here at CLNS Media, Sammy Sheehan. And today's show is powered by Prize Fix. Prize Fix is the official daily fantasy partner of CLNS Media. Download the app today, use the promo code CLNs and get 150 instantly when you win your first five dollar line. Welcome in everyone, Evan Pawlenty solo this week here on Celtics V on CLNS Media. No, I'm copping he's having a nice vacation the family and thanks to Compton he was at Dodger Stadium for the last game. Socks beat the Dodgers. Adam got to see a winner. We love that. Love that. Super excited for Adam and the family. Get to spend some time out in LA. Before we get to anything, make sure folks you subscribe to CLS Media on itunes, on Spotify, make sure you catch us on our YouTube channel as well. We're kind of moving stuff around. So make sure you follow CLNS Media YouTube page, the main page and then there's a Celtics all access page to make sure you subscribe to both of those things. So you're up to date on everything CLNs. I will also shout out the Patriots beat guys because it's Patriots training camp and we are literally there every single day with tons of guys. Not just Mike Cadlik, Taylor Kyles, Alex Barth, not just those guys. Mike Giardi who had a great nugget. AJ Brown's the best player at camp right now and you got Andrew Callahan, the Boston Herald also doing stuff like every single day literally. We have ridiculous amount of content around Patriots training camp so make sure you subscribe for that stuff too. It's really good stuff. Anyway, joined by former CLNS media member, now of the insanely popular, you know, ball podcast, co host for that, Sam Sheehan back here on clns. Sam, now look, I understand if some people, Jason Tatum don't like having smart people around him that know it all. But me, I find it from great podcasting if you have people that know it all, which is why you're a part of the show here today. Sammy, how you doing, buddy?
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B
This, this is, this is a real honor. I mean real. I don't know if you've got any real OG heads who have, who have been back in the day. This was, we're talking a decade ago. Evan and I were tearing it up on the Celtics Roundtable podcast here on Clones Radio and a delight to come back. You know, I feel like we've seen a lot since the. Watching the Isaiah Thomas Celtics lose to the. The Hawks in the playoffs, I think was kind of what we were talking about last time we were. We were doing this. So it's a real. It's a. It is a delightful treat to be back. I wish it were under better circumstances, but, you know, like, the Red Sox are good, so, like, you know, that's kind of. That's kind of how this and the Patriots were in the Super Bowl. This is kind of how the Boston sports seesaw kind of works. You know, for. For every yin, there must be a yang, right? Like, you know.
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A
Yeah, this summer's been a little. Little yang for the Celtics, for sure. You wrote a great piece before the Jalen trade, where in the piece you mentioned Paul George as a possible candidate for a guy.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Now, that's a remarkable poll. Now, at any point did you do like a. What have I done? Like Thanos
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B
Oppenheimer looking at that Killian Murphy? Yeah.
- [03:50]
A
Oh, my God. Did you have one of those moments, like, what did I do? I spoke this into existence.
- [03:54]
B
I. I mean, that's kind of how I felt writing the piece. Right. Because I. I kind of saw when it seemed like the Celtics. Because there was a lot of. A lot of sturm. A lot of drang this off season about, like, you know, the Jalen Brown trade. Like, are they gonna hang on to him? Like, up until the trade happening, there was a lot of fighting about what it meant, what it meant for the Celtics locker room, blah, blah, blah. And I had my own private theories about that, that I kind of, you know, I wrote them all down in this, you know, piece. If anyone's interested in reading it, you can on my Twitter page. I'm at NBA baby secret. It's still the pin on. On my Twitter page. But basically I was just saying, like, this is. I have a theory that what the Celtics did here is when Jason Tatum tore his Achilles, which is what you do when you're MVP candidate or MVP vote getting guy who's, you know, depending on who you ask, somewhere between the fourth and eighth best player in the NBA, when you lose that guy, you're just kind of like starting from scratch. And I think that the Celtics, because of Joe Missoula, because of their. How ahead of the curve they were on this new NBA meta of possession maxing of kind of, you know, offensive rebounds and the three pointers and what. What we affectionately Refer to as Missoula Ball, kind of covered some of what was going on, because I think the Celtics made a decision that what they were going to do was they were going to mostly hold the team together, but they were going to do a soft reset to reset the repeater tax. They had a clear goal that they were going to get under the tax. They did that this year at the deadline with the Anthony Simons trade and the.
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For.
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For Vucevich. I think people thought that was for the off season. I kind of read that maybe a little more cynically as them getting under the tax, which, by the way, does not make ownership cheap. I think people hear that, and they're
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A
like, you're calling ownership for weeks. I've been fighting that for weeks. That's not what this is.
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B
That's not what this is. I mean, the. When you're in the repeater tax, it just. You have to understand that the repeater tax is something that compounds over time. Like, the more years you are in the repeater tax, the more dollars per dollar you are charged, and it just. It multiplies, you know, and it gets to a point where even something like Ron Harper Jr. Great player, a guy I really enjoy, just signed a very affordable contract, something like that would end up costing you the same amount of money as, like, Carl Anthony Towns if the Celtics never win under the tax. So, I mean, it's just. It is just about. At a certain point when you need to get competitive at the highest levels. I mean, the Celtics were deep in the tax when they won the title in 2024. You need to have that flexibility without it being absorbent, you know, like, I mean, I would love if a team would pay a half billion dollars for an NBA team. That. That's, like, just not realistic. It's just not realistic for. For that to happen. So they had to reset the repeater because they knew that they were going to be at least a year without Tatum. They did that. They obviously. They essentially dumped Christopher Springis. They trade Drew Holiday, and they kind of whittled down their salary, and they're left with these guys. I think Jaylen Brown had an outstanding season, and the, you know, the Celtics, The Celtics coaching staff did a great job, like, top to bottom. I think they really developed a lot of guys, and I think we had a little bit of higher expectations than we maybe should have going into the playoffs, because they won 56 games. And then, you know, and I. What bought me in was that Jayson Tatum was back, but Jason Tatum was still not Jason Tatum, you know, and he didn't play game seven. And then at that point, I kind of went back to my initial theory, which was that I think that the Celtics plan here is to reset around another guy, that they're. They're going to need to. To do this around. And I think that you would need to trade either Derrick White or Jalen Brown to make that happen, because the math is still not mathing. And I think Derek White is someone who has had kind of an underwhelming season by his standards, certainly last offseason and Jalen Brown had one of his. The most successful of his career. Now, they didn't get a great return for Jalen Brown. I don't know, you maybe could have got a little better return for Derrick White, but like, also he was coming off of one of his worst seasons in a while, and that's just not like a very good cost play for that. And he's going to slot in better around Jason Tatum. I think you still have some of those issues of with clean fit if you're trading Derrick White and you're not trading Jalen Brown. So that was. I think that, you know, I don't think the Celtics traded Jalen Brown because of any consternation on his part or any, any of the extracurriculars. I know everyone has their theories about that. I think they made this decision that they were probably going to be trading Jalen Brown this off season when Jason Tatum tore his acl. I mean, I just think that that was. They look at that at that point in time and said that this is the window. I think we want to be in the Jason Tatum business instead of the Jalen Brown business. And they planned all of this, these moves around there. And then from there I just looked at like, which, who are the guys with the salary, who are the teams that are going to have the extra picks to trade or the extra assets to trade Celtics are going to be interested in. And you know, Paul George was one of them.
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A
So.
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B
And I think, you know, he does. You know, people have talked about this ad nauseam, but I mean, he was really good at that playoff series against the Celtics. He's obviously not as available. He's obviously a little bit older, but he does slot in better at least Max, he's a little more maximized around Jason Tatum and I think that's what the plan is going to be for the Celtics team.
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A
I brought this up last week with, with Brian Barrett when he was on our show, and I have kind of been buttling with this idea of Jalen Brown is a spectacular player. Like, again, I think I'm doing the Brad Stevens thing of like, I wanted this separate point of just, we love Jalen Brown, who's an excellent person's excellent player. Yeah, that needs to all be said because again, he's still talking about being disrespected, which I understand in a certain
- [09:48]
B
degree he kind of was, you know, like, and those can be separate things, you know, like, I, I, that's the thing. Like, I, I think Jalen has a, a right to be mad. And I think that the Celtics did kind of do the right thing for what their org wanted. At the same time, at the same
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A
time I brought up last week, I said, is it possible that Paul George fits this team better than Jalen does because of what he does? Like, you know, look, we'll see with I, I have the theory that whatever stuff that Paul George got busted for taking and got suspended for was going to be clearly worth it because he's going to be in way better, way better health and way better shape than he's been in a long time. And I say that sort of tongue in cheek, but, you know, every once in a while I get a laugh out of it. But Paul George does a couple of things extremely well. One, he's a great catch and shoot three point shooter. He's a great corner three point shooter. He's a great defensive player. He doesn't turn the ball over all these things that we like. But the big part of this is he's not gonna fight the flow of the way things go. And I think if you go back that 20, 24 team, it's one of the most beautiful years of basketball I've ever seen. Like, if I don't know the last time you went and watched like that team move the ball in offense, but it's like, literally like, how did anybody guard that team? Like, how did anybody guard that team? They were, you know, drive and kicking out and then back in. Like they, they're just moving the ball around a ton. And it ends up with Drew holiday getting a three point shot in the corner where he shot 62% from. So it's like you're not going to have anybody that fights the natural flow of the offense. Whereas like Jaylen and you know, sometimes too, the team's credit or discredit, like, sometimes you need a guy that says, no, no, I'm gonna, I'm gonna back a little. Lack of better words. You're like, I'm gonna this up. I'm just gonna take my shot and we're gonna go. And sometimes you need that guy when stuff breaks down, but sometimes when the ball's moving and it disrupts that sort of process, you kind of freeze guys out, and then the natural flow of things don't go as well. And then all of a sudden, Jalen drives and people crash, and then he doesn't do with it. So, like, there's stuff like that. I don't think Paul George is going to fight this offense where he's like, oh, now it's my turn. Like, it's the Paul George show. No, he's old enough to know this isn't the Paul Jordan show anymore. This is the Jason Tatum show, the Peyton Pritchard show, maybe the. Maybe the Derrick White show. He's not going to get involved in terms of trying to, like, mess that up. He knows what he's here to do. He's going to play the role. He's going to do fine.
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B
Yeah, he. When you. When he's looking down that bench and he sees Amari Williams check in, he's like that. I know that I'm here to play Batman Robin to that boy.
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A
Yeah, right. That's.
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B
That's. That's the star in plain sight right there. We're keeping our. That's. That's my guy this year is Mario Williams. I'm kidding for this.
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A
I do.
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B
But, like, I would say I don't think that's really debatable. I think. I think it's. It's very clear. Like, is Paul George going to provide more vorp or, you know, ep? I mean, well, that's probably a bad example because analytics are, I think, far too unkind to Jalen Brown. Um, but I do think that, like, I don't think it's debatable that, like, Tatum and Brown were not maximizing each other, you know, and that can be fine when you just have the raw talent around it. But I think to kind of what you're saying here, and I agree. I agree with it 100%, is the floor geometry has also gotten a lot different from that 2024 team. The shooting is not quite as reliable all the way around, and most notably is there's no longer stretch. Bakes, Keda and now Mitchell Robinson are both guys who are going to be very much in the paint. Garza can sort of stretch the floor, like, a little bit if he's like, you know, we. We've seen him hit those, like, deep above the break threes, but, like, you Know, I don't know if you like want him doing that like all the time necessarily like
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A
but he's you know he's not.
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B
I, I love Garza but like I don't think like I think if he's an everyday rotation player for you it's, it's, it's tough. You know, you want him to be more like bridging the gap. Like, like doing what he's doing now.
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Is it?
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B
Yeah. Third big.
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A
It's great.
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B
Exactly. Yes. Excellent third big to have. So and I, and I just think Jalen Brown, you know, excellent long two shooter, pretty good. You know I think he had like not a great above the three point shootings. He's a bit like a competent three point shooter but not a good catch and shoot. Three point shooter is very specifically is part of the the issue here. And I think the Celtics, I don't think my other this is my hot take is I still think, I think the Celtics grand plan here. I think Paul George was brought in because he's kind of a good stopgap and I think he's going to give the Celtics what you're talking about a lot of optionality. He's not gonna, you know, cover things up. And I think this season is very much about get Jason Tatum an mvp. I think Tatum has set up beautifully to have an MVP type season this year because I think the Celtics are going to be regular, a regular season wins machine. I mean just look at it. This team won 56 games last year and essentially what you were doing is taking Jalen Brown off the team and then dropping on Jason Tatum, Paul George and Mitchell Robinson. So it's pretty much a pure AD off season in some ways. They're probably going to play a little bit differently, but there's no doubt it's like a more talented team. I don't understand the project the project like I understand the east is much more talented. This is one of the years first years in a while where the east is top to bottom better than the West. I think besides the spurs and Oklahoma City there's not really a lights out for sure, sure thing west team out there. And meanwhile the east is just like there's going to be a really good team is going to miss the playoffs in the Hawks could miss the playoffs in the, in the east. The, you know some of the weird things like that could happen. I, I think that the Celtics are still going to be a regular season wins machine. I think I think they could absolutely win 60 games still. I know that might be a little bit of a hot take. I also don't really think that this team, because they don't they are going to be so heavily reliant on Jason Tatum and you know, development from Peyton Pritchard and old Paul George on creation. I do think that they have a little bit of a lower playoff ceiling than some of the previous Celtics teams. Not last year's team, but like previous Celtics teams. So I do think they kind of, we could see them. I would project them losing in the second round kind of in this like deeper east. But I absolutely think this team could have a Jason Tatum style. And I also don't think the Celtics front office is targeting championship this off season. I think they are waiting for one more year of the Paul George. Yep, one more year of that Paul George contract to come off. Then he is an expiring. Then you have all of these draft picks. You take a look see which star is disgruntled, who is available and then you make that move to get a secondary creator to go with. I don't like it's not a one for one, but I see a lot of. There's, there's a lot of similarities. People are going to raise their eyeballs with this between Jalen Brunson and Jason Tatum. One of my most popular tweets is about Jason Tatum. When you see when you watch a Jason Tatum game, you're like, oh my God, he's kind of having an off night. Like I hope he's okay. And then you look at the box score and he was like 27, 8 and 7 or something like that. Yeah, it feels like he's having a bad game and he'll, he'll light it up in the fourth quarter and Jalen Brunson kind of does that too. Where Jalen Brunson will be. I mean Jason Tatum adds way more. I'm not comparing them as players. I'm just saying there's a general game flow pattern in both of these guys where I have a joke that Jason Tatum is a crunch time merchant. Where Jason Datum will like like he'll be like two for like 16 or something through three quarters and there'd just be lights out in the fourth quarter and, and Jalen Brunson does that a lot too. And I think that Jason Tatum needs that co star who's going to be like very consistent. Kind of what Brunson has in Carl Anthony Towns to.
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A
Kind of wild thing to say, but true.
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B
I just say I just leveraging Anthony Towns. Yeah, it's really Yeah, I would love to have. Honestly, like if. I think if you gave the Celtics front office true serum, they would say we would love to trade for Carl Anthony Towns. I think, I think they think they would think he was an excellent fit on this team.
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A
Well, like, I think that's. I think, I think Mitchell Robinson was like literally Missoula's favorite player and I was not shocked when they signed him. I was like, I know they love
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B
also, I mean the possession match. Missoula is a pervert. Like this possession maxing stuff is. Yeah, go out there, do that. I mean also an EPM demon. If you want, if you ever want to know who Brett the Brad Stevens front office is, is targeting or likes, go to Duncan Threes and sort by the estimated plus minus stat.
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A
Right.
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The Celtics are always targeting guys at the top of that. That is, that is absolutely what their front office is using. So. Hey, I, I think this is, I guess my, my whole thing I'm saying here is I think that this is a. I think this is a long three year plan that the Celtics made up in the summer of 2025 after just did ACL said we're going to reset the repeater. They're not going to go over the tax this year. You can lock that in. That will not happen. They will not. There's no scenario where they will go over the tax this year because they are going to reset the repeater and then next year they are going to be making their trades. Spending, putting together the next great Celtics team around. Jason Tatum for his late prime is what I think is going to happen.
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A
We're taking a quick break. When we come back. This is just so coincidental that I have Sam here for this next bit. Like literally couldn't have picked anybody better to be here for this next bit. But first, quick break from our friends over at price picks. It's a scorching sports summer and you can make all your picks on price picks. WNBA and baseball are heating up with big tennis slams and major golf tournaments on the horizon. And there's no better place for all of your summer sports picks than prize picks. America's number one sports pick at biggest stars. Women basketball are in the heart of their season. No better place to run your game on the W than prize picks. America's rolling sports pick app. We got MVPs raising their games to new heights and a rookie class ready to take over all while teams are fighting for playoff positioning. Make a lineup with player stats. Pick game winners, spreads or totals and combine your picks in the same lineup at all on prize picks which is now available in all 50 states including California, Texas, Georgia and Florida. Coming at you little flex play Friday last week, hit all three tree for tree. We're going to try to do that again. But you know, with flex play, if I hit two out of three, I still get my money back, which is a win for me at least. I don't know you guys but like when you, when you end up being, you know, like even that's a big win. So for your flex play Friday, we're bringing you on a Thursday today, Jaren Duran. We're riding the red hot Red Sox, folks, right in the socks. More than a half a hit for Durant who ever since he was an absolute idiot calling out Willis Contreras at third base. He's been great. Sonny Gray, more than 5Ks in that game as well. Now we're taking Yuri Perez. Again, we're going less than 5Ks against the Atlanta Braves. Again, flex play. I've hit all three a 3x money. If I only hit 2 out of 3, I get 1x. Getting your money back would not be any easier. A little as 15 minutes watch that money roll into your account. Use then though I use that super easy. So down the app today. Use the code CL and ask to get $150 instantly in lineups if you win your first $5 lineup. Again, that's the app prize picks. Download it. Use the code CLNS to get $150 instantly lineups if you win your first $5 lineup price picks America's number one sports pick ad. Back here on self explanatory Evan Valenti solo. Adam Kaufman on vacation this week, joined by just an awesome dude, former CLS media member, now co host of the, you know, ball podcast, which is just hilarious. I'm not quite sure how to describe this to people that have never listened or watched the show. Just buckle up, buckle up and where it goes, it goes. And you're going to laugh, you're going to probably cry a little bit, you'll be a little offended. But I think at the end of the day they land the plane. I'm so happy you're here for this next segment because if I could have like picked one person to have on the show for this next segment. It's like you or your co host Trill would be the guy that I wanted this podcast for this particular segment. Let's go and we're gonna, we're gonna go with the big news this week. It came out, I think if we're recording this on. On Wednesday. So this came out, I think, what, Tuesday? Yes. That Steph Curry and Jason T. Are playing golf together with Barack Obama. Unclear if they played together in the same group or if they were just at the golf course at the same time. The same reason. Like, there's a little ambiguity on that. There's a photo of Curry having pizza with Joe Missoula. Unclear if that photo is new or old. There's a little research out there that suggests that that might be an old photo from, like, years ago. I don't know. Kick.
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B
Don't, don't, don't. Don't tell me the facts. That all happened this weekend in Martha's Vineyard. I was gonna say, you're showing me the AI generated photo of Steph Curry signing with a cartoonishly large pen. Signing, I am a Celtic. That was real, too. I saw that.
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A
Again, whether this is real, not fabricate, we don't know. We have no idea. But the main point is, and this is the reason why I have you here, like, I'm excited for this, is because I would. I am not the person that dubbed you, both of you and Trill both. This. This has come from other sources, mainly my boy Jay Skeets and everybody that associated with that podcast. But you guys are the king of the slop. So my question to you is, is this Steph Curry thing, are we just, like, too horny for news? Are we too horny for slop that, like, that, like, any, like, Steph Curry and Jason Tatum are in the same vicinity? And is that what it takes for us to get really excited about something? Or is this, like, for real?
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B
So here's what I would say.
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A
Okay? It's not.
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B
I. I'll say this at a bare minimum, it's not nothing. You know what I'm saying? Like, I don't.
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A
I would.
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B
I don't know if I would be so quick to poo poo it. Actually, on our last episode, because Trill is a Sixers fan, we did. We do something we call slop trials, where we go back through a GM's moves and declare them innocent or guilty of. Of crimes against NBA trade transactions. So we did one of these because of the recent sightings for what we called Le GM, LeBron James, the GM, as he has been kind of the shadow GM of a couple of his teams that he's had no question. And what that made me realize is that there is still a little bit of player impact with some of this. Of this stuff. Like, guys, it. That the interpersonal relationships do matter. Guys do want to do some of this stuff, and I do think it's kind of undeniable that that Warrior situation is winding down. I. Some might say and. And some being me, that it's actually been winded down here for like, three years. But, like, they're just, you know, what do you think?
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A
Situation.
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B
Yeah. I can't believe James wisely didn't work out. That's crazy.
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A
Or Jonathan Kaminga or Marcus Moody.
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B
I. I gotta say, I do kind of like Mos Moody. But they're even like, losing Qu. They lost Quentin Post on an offer sheet to the Pacers. I like him a lot. I think he would have been. It would have been great Celtic. But the. I. I'm just gonna say this. Steph Curry, if Steph Curry. I. I don't think that they would ever trade Steph Curry unless he asked out. Like, I. I think they want Steph Curry to retire a Warrior. I think that they would probably do anything he wanted. Like, if you wanted to stay there and keep trying, they would. They would honor that. Steph Curry asks for a trade. I just went over how we have a massive. We do have a massive Paul George expiring contract. It's not the worst fit in the world with. With this Celtics team. I mean, we do need, like, some secondary creation now. It's not, you know, it's a pretty small window. I mean, Steph Curry is getting quite old. You know, he's not the player he used to be. This would be a pretty abbreviated. You know, we'll see how this season even goes for him. He's getting to that age where, you know, when it goes, it goes quick. But he is the. Literally the greatest shooter of all time. And I mean, that. It. It's. It's definitely interesting. I would just say, because, you know, we never know who's going to be available next transaction cycle. We always look at it like a year out and we're like, ah, it's gonna be a terrible free agent class or terrible whatever class. We don't know who's gonna be about. And then like, there's. There's always weird. Guys are like, Jaren Jackson Jr. Got traded last season. We didn't know. No one had any idea he was going to be available. Like, there's. This always happens, like, somebody will be out there for the Celtics. I would be shocked if it came out after this offseason that Steph Curry was interested in leaving if he didn't at least take the meeting with the Celtics. And we have. Right. We have stuff to send now. Like, we have. Interesting. That Clippers pick that we got in the Paul George trade is not. Nothing, like, so.
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A
Well, I'm just gonna do this for a minute. Yeah, no, I. I think the Jalen Brown press conference happens this week. I think it's actually Thursday something. Did I see that? Right?
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B
So, yeah.
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A
There hasn't been a Paul George conference yet, though, or Mitchell Robinson press conference or anything like that. We haven't seen it yet. And I. I. You know, maybe I. Maybe I've been reading the Book of Asphalt too much lately because I have been reading it rereading it again. You know, maybe I put my. You know, my. My Bill Simmons. But, like, I find it a little weird that it's August and they haven't introduced their two new guys yet. Like, they haven't even thought about it. I mean, I don't know. I find that it's a little weird.
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B
It's. It is a little weird. I. I wouldn't quite get my hopes up, but I do think that they are at least just seeing what's out there. You know what I'm saying? I don't think that they're committed. I think the price was right for. I think they were. We had a hard timeline on trading Jalen Brown this offseason, and at the end of the day, the Sixers were the ones who were willing to do it. I think Paul George is. Gives them, like, if they don't have to make any moves. He fits fine, you know, and he fits good, and it makes the team competitive, and Jason Tatum has a, like, puncher's chance. You just get into that offseason or postseason, I mean, and see what happens if there are some other guys there that. The only issue is that the Celtics do have to hard stay under the tax line this postseason, and they are right up against it right now. Like, literally, like, not, like, have. Like. No.
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A
It's like. It's like last season when they kept signing guys to certain types of deals because they would literally just thread the needle of staying, like, what were they, like, 58 grand underneath the tax. You're talking in the hundreds of millions of dollars to be, like, literally four or five figures. But, like, you are. You're. You're skating on. And I think. I forget who called them out for that. I don't know if it was. If it was Keith Smith.
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B
I was gonna say, I feel like it was Keith who.
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A
Who was just like. Like. Like, you know, they're gonna sign all These guys to these type of contracts and it will allow them to say under by like this. I remember being like, that is some shrewd ass booky thing, right? That's incredible work. Demon.
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B
Demon. Zaron dude. Mike Zarin.
- [29:16]
A
Oh my God.
- [29:16]
B
One of the. Of the goats for. For many of those reasons.
- [29:19]
A
So it has gotten back to me that Zarin has heard this podcast before because he's mentioned to Adam that he knows that him and I literally like glaze Mike Z all the time this podcast. And I'm just Mike, if you're listening anytime that the. The opportunity is always open guy, you can always come on. Yeah, I. I love Mike. I think Mike is like one of the most brilliant guys in the league and. And just super fan.
- [29:44]
B
Genuine super fan too. Like, nobody loves their job more than Mike. Zarin loves his job. I'm just gonna put that out there. Yeah. Whenever I see him get like, put in rumors for like other GM jobs, I'm like, nah, we're good, man.
- [29:56]
A
He's having a great time basically being the shadow puppet master of this. Like, Brad's doing some stuff, but I think Mike's doing a lot of stuff.
- [30:03]
B
I. A hundred. I have agreed with that for like a long time. I'm just saying, like, look at the through lines with like the age to. To Brad things. Some things haven't changed and we're very lucky to have Mike. Let me just put it that way.
- [30:16]
A
So. Yeah. So Mike, anyway, anytime you want to come on this podcast by the door is always open. But like, I want to get back to Curry for a minute because like, one part of me sees the Curry thing and I'm like, dude, Steph Curry. Missoula ball. Steph Curry. This is going to be incredible. What are you talking about? He'd be a great creator. Because again, I do agree that the secondary creation stuff is going to probably be a problem this year. Maybe not regular season playoffs. Unless. Unless somehow, like it's.
- [30:43]
B
It's a big bet on Peyton Pritchard.
- [30:45]
A
Like, or. Or the Ugo stuff or the Ugo stuff was that we saw in Southern League is totally, totally real and gonna translate. Which I think it might, but not right now.
- [30:54]
B
I don't know. I mean, like, look, I'm not. I'm not gonna say like Noah Dell might have. Might have been Bruce shotted the. The. The Peyton they think, you know, like, if. If there's another all star season for him. I mean, she. Everyone might need to sign the apology sheet who was mean to her on Twitter two years ago.
- [31:13]
A
Well, she gets. She gets way too many mean tweets. But like, I don't. Again, part of me loves the idea of. I mean, again, who doesn't love the idea of stuff set joins your team? I don't care what team there you're excited about. Like you could. It'd be the. Probably. It'd be the coolest thing to happen to the Kings in the history of their, like their entire franchise. Like instead Gary was like, I'm gonna go play in Sacramento. So I get that part. But the other part of me is like, I don't think they do all this chicanery, like toe in the line underneath the tax line for two straight years so they can reset all the draft picks that they can trade to go get 38 year old Steph Curry. Man. I just. I don't think that's the plan. I think, I don't think that's plan A.
- [31:51]
B
Let me put it that way.
- [31:52]
A
Okay, fair. I don't think.
- [31:54]
B
Yeah, I don't think that's. I don't think that's plan A. But I think it's possible. Like, okay, if some other things. The Celtics are the Betty Jesuit from Dune. You know, they're Their plans deal in decades, many timelines.
- [32:06]
A
Yeah, we got. We got a suitor over here on this planet and this planet in Iraq.
- [32:12]
B
They have, they have backup plans on backup plans. 100 dude. Like there is, there is. There is some name out there. I don't know, is it Anthony Edwards? Is it. You know, they have a plan.
- [32:24]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [32:24]
B
They have a plan for somebody. I don't know who it is, like, because you can't really tell when these guys are going to become available. They have a plan for that. They've also got backup plans for all this stuff, you know, like. And I think, I think Paul George was one of those backup plans, like for example, for this Jalen Brown thing because I think they really wanted to get Trey Murphy with some Lori market
- [32:46]
A
and be one of those guys maybe
- [32:47]
B
possibly like could have been one of the guys they were looking at. Some of the guys that they were kind of checking out. I mean, I think it seems like they. What they really want to do is they really wanted to put Trey Murphy in the. That massive Simons TPE because he like fit perfectly in there and then get to reset that. I don't think they were quite able to do quite as many. They love doing TPE perversions because it prov. Like every time you do that a year for those uninitiated who aren't cap dorks like me. Like, basically every time you use a tpe, it. It holds the space for you for a year. Like, if you think about cap space is like kind of like a spot air and a balloon, it kind of holds that space for one year. And if you trade a player into it and then send out another player, it makes. It resets the timer with a diff. With a different amount of space. And I think the Celtics plan was to get through these two years with massive tpes holding the balloon. So when next season, when the repeater is reset, they have these giant traded player exceptions they can use to add all the salary back really quickly now that they're not paying the repeater tax, and make like a really big super team. And I think they weren't quite able to pull that out. It didn't go quite the way they wanted this offseason. But I think that was why you heard Trey Murphy's name a lot, is because he was a perfect fit in that Simon's tpe.
- [34:11]
A
So if they were only. If they could trade, because they couldn't use all of it, but if they traded Hauser, they could use more of it. Right? Because they were right up against the first apron. I don't think they could use all 27 million of that or whatever the number.
- [34:23]
B
Well, because it would have been part of the Jalen Brown trade, so it
- [34:25]
A
would have been fine, right? Oh, yeah, they would have been.
- [34:28]
B
They still would have been under the tax, like, Right, because. Because the other day I. The apron stuff wasn't as big of a deal this year because the tax line is lower than the apron. And they were never going to be over the tax this off season. So unless it was like Giannis, which is, again, why the honest stuff. I. I think that took the Celtics by surprise how in. They were on the Giannis stuff, which is why you get the weird stuff. Like Brad Stevens said, no deal for Hugo. I don't. I. I think that the Celtics were as surprised as anyone that they were as in on Giannis, and I don't think they really wanted to do that. I don't think that was their plan for the timeline. You know, like, I think that's.
- [35:08]
A
That was. Simmons has been kind of saying that for a while. Like, they. They made one offer for Giannis and like all of a sudden they were finalists in the honest sweepstakes, which like, to. To their credit, like, they. They definitely were based on what else people were offering for Giannis. Like, we gotta see that Jalen Brown and, and picks for Giannis is like not nothing, but at the same time, you know, want to deal with Jalen
- [35:32]
B
at all well and I think that what happened and then they, we basically got the Miami Heat to commit franchise seppuku. I I think that trade is gonna go disaster. I I, this is not a popular take. I think, I think the Heat are in a lot of trouble. This office. Like if Giannis misses any time they could, they're, they could definitely miss the playoffs in the East.
- [35:53]
A
I I, yeah, they're, they're really super unbelievably thin and yeah. You know.
- [36:00]
B
Well, I don't like the fit with Bam and Giannis either. I mean they'll be, they'll be elite on defense, but I just, I don't know.
- [36:05]
A
I don't know. Well, they don't spread the floor. Those guys don't spread the floor. Like gianna shoots like 31 from the three at a good year and then, you know, unless they're playing the Washington Wizards, like Bam's not shooting too many threes. Make that really work.
- [36:20]
B
Speaking of slot, by the way.
- [36:22]
A
Yeah.
- [36:22]
B
Dylan Mitchell is joining the Celtics on a two year, a two way contract.
- [36:27]
A
Did that just happen?
- [36:29]
B
Our long national nightmare is over. Yes. So.
- [36:31]
A
All right, so this was actually my next question. I'm so happy this happened because usually, yeah, you do this, you do this for, you know, you're in the biz, you get.
- [36:39]
B
Yep.
- [36:40]
A
You normally like record a podcast and then all of a sudden, yeah. Something happens and you're like, oh, cool. I wish, I wish I had that information like you know, an hour ago. That would have been super cool. So yeah, just, just literally breaking the middle of this pocket. So just wanting everybody. So it's just announced they've signed. This happened an hour ago. Signed second round pick. They'll mention a two way deal. Which is interesting because my next place I was going to jump to. Yeah. Was what the hell is going. Like, I, I honestly can't follow. Every day there's a new update on this college eligibility thing.
- [37:14]
B
Yeah.
- [37:15]
A
How many years they can, can they go? Like there was the until like right now there were. And this is. My screen is so cracked.
- [37:23]
B
That's how I know you're a man of honor. You can't trust a man whose screen is pristine.
- [37:28]
A
That's right. I've tried to see something.
- [37:30]
B
Yeah.
- [37:31]
A
But anyway, so it's like, is he gonna go back to school? Is like what's gonna happen here? And I'm like, if I'm the Celtics. I'm livid if he goes back to school. Yeah. I do not want him going back to St. John's I want him here training with our staff. Like, look how much better he got shooting. Like, he made how many more threes in summer league that he made in the entire.
- [37:51]
B
I'm really excited about him. I'm. I'm gonna be honest. I'm way more excited about him than Kristin. I, Like, I, I, I. You're not there. I love Dylan.
- [38:02]
A
I love it.
- [38:03]
B
Yeah, I love. I. I'm also pretty low on Senec. I had a little bit of a crash out on draft because, like. Because I. I mean, like, you can't complain too much because we got him at 27, you know? Like, I, I don't. You know, it is what it is. But the. The joke was that when we were recording the podcast, Trill is a Sixers fan, and I was. I was giving him because. Because they were linked to Seneca all cycle, and then they got Filon, who he was really excited for, and then I got. Yeah, I got annihilated by Chris Cedak. So I don't know. Senec could be good. I'm wrong all the time on the draft, so, like, yeah, I don't want to do that. Dylan Mitchell is. I'm really excited by the athletes. I mean, this guy, literally, the only thing he can't do is shoot. And again, that's a massive. You know, what if. I mean, I don't think, like, him shooting? I'm glad that he shot well in summer league. I'll. We'll see. I'm not. I don't have a ton of hope on that, but I do think that, like, sometimes guys do figure it out and. And I think that would be really good for the Celtics if they could just summon a rotation player out of their late second round pick like that. Like. And I. And I was going to be really bummed if he went back to school. And I don't know, like, it does seem like this is. I think overall, the new college eligibility rules are good because we're getting better quality players. Guys are coming out more ready to get into the league, and I think it's helpful for those guys. Those guys are making money. You have less sad stories about these guys who, like, had a chance. Like, it.
- [39:33]
A
Yeah, like Ben McLemore. Did you ever, ever see the draft, the draft day thing for Ben McLemore? They go back to his childhood home, and you're like, yeah. Oh, my God, really? And, like, yeah, so I agree with you, the fact that the nil stuff has kept people, you know, they're longer, you know, you get more experience, you get more run. And that's great for everybody. You know, like, if you're a good
- [39:53]
B
college player, you can make like 30, you can make life changing money. You can make like $25 million, like just being in college, which is good. Like, I understand that's like not a very sympathetic thing to like a lot of us who are like, you know, I'm a social worker, we're all trying to make ends meet out here. But like, you know, like, it's good for these kids to like get that money without having to like, need to make the mba because just it's. The money is there in college. Like, why not?
- [40:16]
A
Like, so, yeah, everybody else.
- [40:19]
B
Yeah, why not?
- [40:19]
A
Yeah. I was, I was nervous about this whole thing because I was like, what? Like, how does this work when he's done at college? Can he join the seas? Like, can he like, does he join Maine? Like, how does this work? But I, because I am, I, I'm not trying to like poo poo. The fact that I'm not excited for Dylan Mitchell, far from it. Like, you watch some of his defensive stuff and you're like, this guy's like kind of. He's got like a, like a Marcus smart type.
- [40:42]
B
Oh, you said the name, you said the name that I was excited about.
- [40:46]
A
And like, I'm like, man, like this guy and he jumps out of the gym. His athleticism is crazy. I, my, my comp for him is like, what if Danny got the draft? Ronde, HOLLIS Jefferson, like 10 years ago, this is exactly, this would look like. And you know, like, I think Dylan's a little like, leaner, a little springier, but it has like a similar game, like rebounds. The basketball plays good defense moves the ball. Like Rendez was an incredible like small ball four because he couldn't really shoot. But like, you do all the other stuff that they do. So I am like, pretty pumped for Mitchell. But snack for me, the seeing him protect the rim the way he did during, just during summer league, I'm like, oh, so like the thing that everybody said because I didn't watch it for the Houston game, I just didn't have the opportunity to do that. Everybody's like, well, he didn't. His, his rim protection numbers aren't great because he was really more focused on rebounding. And you can see the read is real like that he is, he's got a real knack for it.
- [41:44]
B
That's that's the real like he, he's an elite rebounder. That's that there's no question about that. He's the kid's gonna rebound the ball
- [41:51]
A
for sure and he's an elite athlete. He's long as hell. He, he jumps out of the gym. He's got good feet. The thing that made me laugh was like he's trying to be LaMarcus Aldridge offense with like a post up face up game. You're like not quite there yet but like this the other stuff that I get really excited about with Sak I think like to get him at 27 is hysterical. Like what Boston has done at the end of the first round between Pritchard who went from a special teams assassin with these half court heaves to sixth man of the year to is he this year's Jalen Brunson like that's a pretty unbelievable thing to get at 27 or is it 20, 28.
- [42:33]
B
Maybe 28.
- [42:34]
A
They got Shireman at 30 who can who is an actual NBA player. I love him a ton.
- [42:41]
B
He, he completely changed it. I, I, I thought it was kind of over for him before last year and this last year I was like this coaching staff is really needs to take a bow. I mean they are they just Jordan, Jordan Walsh's development has been unreal. Ron Harper Jr. Came in. I was calling him the better Harper
- [43:01]
A
up until the playoffs.
- [43:03]
B
Yeah until the playoffs. I kind of lost that joke somewhere along the way there.
- [43:07]
A
But yeah when Dylan Harper was like the best player for the, for the first and finals.
- [43:12]
B
It's like he's I can't believe we let the spurs get Dylan Harper.
- [43:17]
A
Thank God. I would trade, I would trade everything and I'm not even joking. I'll look at like I would trade literally everything for Dylan Harper. I think he's same the how the spurs ended up with him and Wemby and and Castle in the same theme is like just insane.
- [43:33]
B
It's just insane work all their guy. I, I really like I was not a vercel guy before this playoffs and they were those guys are all just tough as like I really value like the mental toughness that we see as some of them. Niecemith was like this for the Pacers the year before where I was like
- [43:50]
A
that one hurts because it's like you just couldn't give him a run.
- [43:53]
B
Yeah I, I mean I don't like you know it is what it. I'm just mostly just happy for him and I'm like good. You know I'm so Glad that you're, you know that it worked out for you. Demon. Like, you know, like you.
- [44:04]
A
I just like he hasn't been hurt yet, which is amazing. But you have Charman, who turned an NBA player. Ugo, the plus minus darling of the rookie class last year.
- [44:13]
B
Yeah.
- [44:13]
A
Who like he was lapping the field at certain, like I remember looking at the plus minus in, in like cackling because he was three times the plus minus like B.J. edgecombe. And you're like, this doesn't make any sense. Which makes me, I have a, my, my lukewarm Ugo take is actually, I think he'll be the fifth starter by the end of the year because him and Tatum and White. Okay. Their plus minus is going to be so good. It's going to be out of the control which gets to that, that regular season juggernaut thing where they will probably, they'll have White, Ugo, Tatum and Keita as like a four man lineup that just crushes because that's just all those guys are plus minus darlings anyway. I, and then they get Cenac this year and I'm like, you know, for 27, it's a guy that rebounds the hell out of it. He can, he can definitely protect the rim. I loved when they went two bigs with him and Amari. I was like, this is, this is, this is old school. I love this. This is two bags. This is like perfect. I love seeing this especially in summer league when nobody's ready for that. Like, I forget what game it was. I think it was their second to last game where like the fourth, the second half they put both of them on the floor at the same time and the team they were playing just like couldn't score. Yeah. Yeah, that makes, that makes a lot of sense. They want a huge run.
- [45:31]
B
I'm, I'm so high on Amari this year. I really hope he gets. I, I, My big prediction is, I think, I think Amari is like, it's unfortunate that like Robins, I think Robinson will, he can't really stay healthy, so I'm sure he's gonna miss some time at some point this year.
- [45:44]
A
Sure.
- [45:44]
B
I think, I think Amari is going to be a regular rotation guy when Robinson's out. And I'm really excited for that. I really want to see him.
- [45:51]
A
I'm not, I'm not gonna be mad at it. I'm definitely not mad at that. I think, you know, but yeah, but back to, just to wrap up on Dylan Mitchell, it's good to have him under contract. I can't wait to see his box scores. And they're going to be hilarious. I think if, like, Amari from time to time in Maine will put up like a 31, 12 and 11, and you're like, how did he do this? And he's just dunking the ball and being an absolute seven foot menace, which is hilarious. And the highlights are equally as funny.
- [46:22]
B
I'm three miles away right now. I will be seated. I will be out there at the main expo watching Mario.
- [46:28]
A
Yeah, get it. Get his autograph for me. Two, Two things quickly before we get out of here. Number one, you know, if you saw this, Ray Allen's gonna join KG and Paul Pearson and duck Doc Rivers into the hall of Fame. Nice to see those guys kind of patch things up. But I think the bigger question is we all think Doc's a Hall of Famer. I mean, I think if you combine
- [46:51]
B
them both, like, isn't he up there in total wins? I feel like he's like fifth or something like that in total wins.
- [46:58]
A
Like, I'm giving Doc a hard time, obviously. I think, you know, being he's. He's. Well, some of the other guys are in the hall of Fame. He should be in there. I just think after he left Boston, the traject. Doc Rivers coaching thing, just like the big nose.
- [47:14]
B
We, we, we. We love. We call Doc the politician on my. Our podcast because he's just. He's such a. Like, I loved. I. Doc, the person I love, he's so funny. Like, I love listening to him on Bill. Like, I. And he's always so good at like deflecting blame. Like nothing's ever his fault. It's always. Or, you know, like it's something with this, something with that. I'll say this about Doc Rivers. If you give him a super team, that team is going to do so dog. They're going to be so under their amount of they. But if you give. If you give document a bunch of scrubs, if everybody is out, nothing that is going to turn into the. The 2617 warriors, the 1617 warriors. If you give him like just. Just a bunch of G league guys or anything like that. Doc is a demon when the less talent he has, the better coach he is. I don't think we.
- [48:07]
A
Like, he always. He always. Like, he almost left Boston because it wasn't he. And he left Boston. He want to rebuild. He was out, so he didn't want to partake. No. Congrats, Docs being the hall of Fame. I'm not saying I'm just trying to be a jerk. And I just, you know, it's. Doc's coaching career is a unique one, that's all. I'm gonna. I'm gonna leave it at that. And the last thing I want to leave here on is I. I saw you tweet about this earlier. I just want to make sure you. You have my email address or you can just DM it to me. The Craig Breslow apology form. You need to just. Oh, yeah, shoot that on over for me because, uh, boy, let me tell you,
- [48:44]
B
I did. Let me. Let me be clear. I did not see this coming. I. My running bit was every. Every day with the socks were. When it was. When it was bad early in the year, every day, I would say, Craig Bezlo died three months ago. Craig Br has been dead. Like, he's. He's. He's passed away.
- [49:00]
A
He's.
- [49:00]
B
He's left this mortal coil. He's not alive. And I just kept saying that over and over and over again. He's alive, he's bad. He's never been more full of life. He's never been. I owe him a massive apology. I thought the Bregman Durbin thing was like, fireable, catastrophic, owned. Yeah, I thought it was catastrophic. And he's owned me. He's completely owned me. Sunny gray, like, is just unreal all of a sudden. Again, I. I think he. He still hadn't given up a run. I just checked the score a second ago. We were up one. Nothing.
- [49:30]
A
Yeah, I'm literally. How many cases he have? He have enough. Is he. Is he wrecking up case?
- [49:34]
B
He's Peyton Tolle. Like, I mean, he's not. We're certainly not prospect hugging anymore, that's for sure. Like, you know, like that. Like, it's crazy that if you told me before the season that, like, Roman Anthony and Garrett Kersher were going to be, like, basically out the entire time and that we had Start. Had the start we had. I said. I would say, like, so we definitely lost 100 games then. They're like, if that. If that happened, I like, we're like, we're two games. We've got eight games against the Yankees here coming up later this. This month. And I will be seated because also the Rays are. I. I'm. I'm like Woody at the end of Toy Story when Woody has Buzz and they're flying over it, and he's like, you overshot the truck. And it's like, we're not aiming for the truck. We're not aiming for the wild card. Bring me the. Bring me the. The division title, baby. Let's go.
- [50:24]
A
I. I will be honest with you. Last night, Wednesday night. No, Tuesday night. Tuesday night, August, was the first game I've watched start to finish this year. I was like. I'm like, you know what? Nope. These guys. These guys are winning me over. So I. I tuned in. It was six. Nothing, like, immediately, like, I don't know. Like, I'm like Dave o'. Brien. Dave's like, what's going on?
- [50:44]
B
Yeah.
- [50:45]
A
Is this still happening? It's. It's. It's the best. And, like, I do that. We did a little Sox talk at the end because the socks been so hot. It's like, you can't. You can't post a Boston show and not talk about. No, you can't.
- [50:55]
B
I. I mean, and there's so much, like, Jiren Duran has been, like, statistically, like, the worst position player, and, And. And he's still good. He's, like, on pace for, like, 20, 20 and 100 RBIs or something like that. Even with all that, like, like, even the bad players are playing well. It's crazy. Like, it's so good.
- [51:15]
A
Dude, button people over. Like, I, I, I. Who. We had a homer tonight. Somebody had a home run.
- [51:21]
B
This is. I have not seen this since 04. Like, this is crazy.
- [51:25]
A
This is. Oh, no. I mean, this is like, this is like 2013 stuff where they had no business winning. But, like, the thing is. And I texted this to Barrett after Duran hit the homer, I was like, so we might win the World Series, huh? This is like, a real thing.
- [51:39]
B
We're gonna do it.
- [51:42]
A
I keep coming back to this team's gonna add, hopefully, Abby Rutsman, Garrett Crochet, and Roman Anthony. Like, a top five pitcher, an all star catcher, and the youngest, like, the. The most exciting young prospect in baseball. Like, what are we talking about here?
- [52:02]
B
I. I don't know if you know this, so. So the. The microcosm.
- [52:05]
A
We can.
- [52:05]
B
We can end on this, but this is just. The thing that's killing me is Brian Bellow looked done earlier this year. He was. He had, like, one of the worst. Like, obviously had a really bad wild card series, you know, like, was. That was. Everyone kind of soured on him. Then starts off as a. Like, I think he literally had a 10 ERA after, like, 40 innings pitched or something like that this season. Gets yanked as a starter. He has turned into the. And I'm literally not exaggerating, the greatest long reliever of all time. He has a 0.65 ERA over the same amount. Like, like, as a starter, his ERA is like 10. As a reliever, he's. He has a, like a 65. It's insane. Like, what is going on? Like, stop.
- [52:51]
A
The weirdest thing is, like, when people get on, you're like, wow, that's weird. Somebody got on base against B. What's going on here? Like, what's bizarre? And as a. Like, he just can't pitch the first inning and he's fine. Like, what is this? I don't know.
- [53:03]
B
I don't.
- [53:03]
A
I. I look, I think it's the strangest thing in a season full of strange things. It's the strangest thing that is currently happening. Okay. With Red Sox talk. Means we probably should wrap this up. So with that, we are going to wrap this up. Make sure you subscribe to, you know, ball podcast, the Patreon, first and foremost. Those guys are awesome. They're hilarious. How many times a week are you guys?
- [53:24]
B
We two. You get four hours a week. We do two two hour podcasts a week, one for free. So you can sample it like on the YouTube, wherever you get your. Wherever you get your podcast, you know, ball podcast. And then we do an extra bonus Patreon episode every week. Also, if you do the Patreon, get access to the Discord. You can talk basketball with all the sicko perverts in there. And you can follow me at NBA, baby Secret. And Evan, it was such a pleasure to be on today. I'm very so happy to come back to clns where it all started. Love clns. Gave me my start on the airwaves. Really appreciate it.
- [53:57]
A
So, yeah, all that, that Sam just said, just. Just rewind that back and listen to them again and do all that stuff. Make sure you subscribe to this podcast, iTunes, Spotify, YouTube, you know, all that stuff. And again, I always saw the Patriots beat guys because they're working their ass off right now. And when I tell you, I'm. I'm dead serious. Nobody covers Patriots training camp as good as we do because there's like 12 people down there. And you have boss. Some boss of little people. You have Bedards on our freaking on our network, Kellyann's on our network, Giardi's on our network, Kyle's and Cadillac and Alex Barth. Like, you literally can't get more people on the beat than we have down there now. So make sure you check those guys out. Sam Sheehan, it was an honor. It was a pleasure. And I just have to roast you real quick before you go. And I I don't know if people can figure this out, but in his off time, Sam moonlights as an aaron rodgers impersonator. Going on. It's really.
- [54:57]
B
I do have. I do have some different beliefs for aaron rodgers. I'll just say that it stops at how we look. I'll just say that ye you I'm
- [55:07]
A
evans weti we'll see you guys next week right here on celtics feet on sealness media.