Podcast
Chain of Thought | AI Agents, Infrastructure & Engineering
Hosted by Conor Bronsdon · EN
AI is reshaping infrastructure, strategy, and entire industries. Chain of Thought is the podcast where builders reason through what's changing. Host Conor Bronsdon sits down with the engineers and founders shipping AI in production to get past the hype into what's working and what isn't. Episodes cover model infrastructure, inference, agent frameworks, evaluation, and developer tools.
Guests have come from NVIDIA, Google DeepMind, AMD, Databricks, Vercel, and more. Every episode carries a full transcript and show notes at chainofthought.show. New episodes weekly.
Conor Bronsdon is an independent consultant and angel investor in AI infrastructure and developer tools. He led technical ecosystem at Modular, acquired by Qualcomm in 2026; led developer awareness at Galileo, acquired by Cisco; and ran developer marketing at LinearB, where he was GM of the Dev Interrupted podcast and community.
Views expressed by the host and guests are their own.
25episodes
Episodes
Newest firstAll episodes
Gemini 3 & Robot Dogs: Inside Google DeepMind's AI Experiments | Paige Bailey
Jan 1400:50:53Tap to summarizeGoogle DeepMind is reshaping the AI landscape with an unprecedented wave of releases—from Gemini 3 to robotics and even data centers in space. Paige Bailey, AI Developer Relations Lead at Google DeepMind, joins us to break down the full Google AI ecosystem. From her unique journey as a geophysicist-turned-AI-leader who helped ship GitHub Copilot, to now running developer experience for DeepMind's entire platform, Paige offers an insider's view of how Google is thinking about the future of AI.The conversation covers the practical differences between Gemini 3 Pro and Flash, when to use the open-source Gemma models, and how tools like Anti-Gravity IDE, Jules, and Gemini CLI fit into developer workflows. Paige also demonstrates Space Math Academy—a gamified NASA curriculum she built using AI Studio, Colab, and Anti-Gravity—showing how modern AI tools enable rapid prototyping. The discussion then ventures into AI's physical frontier: robotics powered by Gemini on Raspberry Pi, Google's robotics trusted tester program, and the ambitious Project Suncatcher exploring data centers in space.00:00 Introduction01:30 Paige's Background & Connection to Modular02:29 Gemini Integration Across Google Products03:04 Jules, Gemini CLI & Anti-Gravity IDE Overview03:48 Gemini 3 Flash vs Pro: Live Demo & Pricing06:10 Choosing the Right Gemini Model09:42 Google's Hardware Advantage: TPUs & JAX10:16 TensorFlow History & Evolution to JAX11:45 NeurIPS 2025 & Google's Research Culture14:40 Google Brain to DeepMind: The Merger Story15:24 Palm II to Gemini: Scaling from 40 People18:42 Gemma Open Source Models20:46 Anti-Gravity IDE Deep Dive23:53 MCP Protocol & Chrome DevTools Integration26:57 Gemini CLI in Google Colab28:00 Image Generation & AI Studio Traffic Spikes28:46 Space Math Academy: Gamified NASA Curriculum31:31 Vibe Coding: Building with AI Studio & Anti-Gravity36:02 AI From Bits to Atoms: The Robotics Frontier36:40 Stanford Puppers: Gemini on Raspberry Pi Robots38:35 Google's Robotics Trusted Tester Program40:59 AI in Scientific Research & Automation42:25 Project Suncatcher: Data Centers in Space45:00 Sustainable AI Infrastructure47:14 Non-Dystopian Sci-Fi Futures47:48 Closing Thoughts & Resources- Connect with Paige on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dynamicwebpaige/- Follow Paige on X: https://x.com/DynamicWebPaige- Paige's Website: https://webpaige.dev/- Google DeepMind: https://deepmind.google/- AI Studio: https://ai.google.devConnect with our host Conor Bronsdon:- Substack – https://conorbronsdon.substack.com/ - LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/conorbronsdon/Presented By: Galileo.aiDownload Galileo's Mastering Multi-Agent Systems for free here!: https://galileo.ai/mastering-multi-agent-systemsTopics Covered:- Gemini 3 Pro vs Flash comparison (pricing, speed, capabilities)- When to use Gemma open-source models- Anti-Gravity IDE, Jules, and Gemini CLI workflows- Google's TPU hardware advantage- History of TensorFlow, JAX, and Google Brain- Space Math Academy demo (gamified education)- AI-powered robotics (Stanford Puppers on Raspberry Pi)- Project Suncatcher (orbital data centers)
Transcribe →Explaining Eval Engineering | Galileo's Vikram Chatterji
Dec 1900:37:15Tap to summarizeYou've heard of evaluations—but eval engineering is the difference between AI that ships and AI that's stuck in prototype.Most teams still treat evals like unit tests: write them once, check a box, move on. But when you're deploying agents that make real decisions, touch real customers, and cost real money, those one-time tests don't cut it. The companies actually shipping production AI at scale have figured out something different—they've turned evaluations into infrastructure, into IP, into the layer where domain expertise becomes executable governance.Vikram Chatterji, CEO and Co-founder of Galileo, returns to Chain of Thought to break down eval engineering: what it is, why it's becoming a dedicated discipline, and what it takes to actually make it work. Vikram shares why generic evals are plateauing, how continuous learning loops drive accuracy, and why he predicts "eval engineer" will become as common a role as "prompt engineer" once was.In this conversation, Conor and Vikram explore:Why treating evals as infrastructure—not checkboxes—separates production AI from prototypesThe plateau problem: why generic LLM-as-a-judge metrics can't break 90% accuracyHow continuous human feedback loops improve eval precision over timeThe emerging "eval engineer" role and what the job actually looks likeWhy 60-70% of AI engineers' time is already spent on evalsWhat multi-agent systems mean for the future of evaluationVikram's framework for baking trust AND control into agentic applicationsPlus: Conor shares news about his move to Modular and what it means for Chain of Thought going forward.Chapters:00:00 – Introduction: Why Evals Are Becoming IP01:37 – What Is Eval Engineering?04:24 – The Eval Engineering Course for Developers05:24 – Generic Evals Are Plateauing08:21 – Continuous Learning and Human Feedback11:01 – Human Feedback Loops and Eval Calibration13:37 – The Emerging Eval Engineer Role16:15 – What Production AI Teams Actually Spend Time On18:52 – Customer Impact and Lessons Learned24:28 – Multi-Agent Systems and the Future of Evals30:27 – MCP, A2A Protocols, and Agent Authentication33:23 – The Eval Engineer Role: Product-Minded + Technical34:53 – Final Thoughts: Trust, Control, and What's NextConnect with Conor Bronsdon:Substack – https://conorbronsdon.substack.com/LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/conorbronsdon/X (Twitter) – https://x.com/ConorBronsdonLearn more about Eval Engineering:https://galileo.ai/evalengineeringConnect with Vikram Chatterji:LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/vikram-chatterji/
Transcribe →Debunking AI's Environmental Panic | Andy Masley
Nov 2600:59:03Tap to summarizeAI is destroying the planet—or so we've been told. This week on Chain of Thought, we tackle one of the most persistent and misleading narratives in the AI conversation.Andy Masley, Director of Effective Altruism DC, joins host Conor Bronsdon to fact-check the absurd AI environmental claims you've heard at parties, in articles, and even in bestselling books. Andy recently went viral for discovering what he calls "the single most egregious math mistake" he's ever seen in a book—a data center water usage calculation in Karen Hao's NYT Bestseller, Empire of AI, that was off by a factor of 4,500.In this conversation, Andy and Conor break down the myths around AI’s water and energy usage and explore:The viral Empire of AI error and what it reveals about the broader debateWhy most AI water usage statistics are misleading or flat-out wrongHow one ChatGPT prompt represents just 1/150,000th of your daily emissionsTrade-offs around data center cooling + decision makingWhy "tribal thinking" about AI is distorting environmental activismWhere AI might actually help the climate through deep learning optimizationIf you've ever felt guilty about using AI tools, been cornered at a party about AI's environmental impact, or simply want to understand what the data actually says, this episode, and Andy’s deep dive articles, arm you with the facts.Chapters:00:00 – Introduction: The Party Guilt Problem01:54 – Andy's Background and What Sparked This Work03:50 – The 4,500x Error in Empire of AI06:39 – Breaking Down the Math: Liters vs. Cubic Meters10:39 – The Unintended Consequence: Air Cooling vs. Water Cooling12:51 – Karen Hao's Response and What's Still Missing19:08 – Why Environmentalists Should Focus Elsewhere21:41 – The Danger of Tribal Thinking About AI25:49 – What Is Effective Altruism (And Why People Attack It)29:15 – EA, AI Risk, and P(doom)34:31 – Why Misinformation Hurts Your Own Side37:39 – Using ChatGPT Is Not Bad for the Environment42:14 – The Party Rebuttal: Practical Comparisons45:23 – Water Use Reality: 1/800,000th of Your Daily Footprint48:27 – The Personal Carbon Footprint Distraction53:38 – Data Centers: Efficiency vs. Whether to Build55:13 – AI's Net Climate Impact: The Positive Case59:34 – Deep Learning, Smart Grids, and Climate Optimization1:03:45 – Final ThoughtsKey referencesIEA Study: AI and climate change - https://www.iea.org/reports/energy-and-ai/ai-and-climate-change#abstract Nature: https://www.nature.com/articles/s44168-025-00252-3 The Empire of AI Error: https://andymasley.substack.com/p/empire-of-ai-is-wildly-misleading Using ChatGPT isn’t bad for the environment: https://andymasley.substack.com/p/a-short-summary-of-my-argument-thathttps://andymasley.substack.com/p/a-cheat-sheet-for-conversations-about Connect with Andy Masley: Substack – https://andymasley.substack.com/X (Twitter) – https://x.com/AndyMasleyConnect with Conor Bronsdon: Substack – https://conorbronsdon.substack.com/LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/conorbronsdon/X (Twitter) – https://x.com/ConorBronsdon
Transcribe →The Critical Infrastructure Behind the AI Boom | Cisco CPO Jeetu Patel
Nov 1901:18:11Tap to summarizeAI is accelerating at a breakneck pace, but model quality isn’t the only constraint we face.. There are major infrastructure requirements, energy needs, security, and data pipelines to run AI at scale. This week on Chain of Thought, Cisco’s President and Chief Product Officer Jeetu Patel joins host Conor Bronsdon to reveal what it actually takes to build the critical foundation for the AI era.Jeetu breaks down the three bottlenecks he sees holding AI back today: • Infrastructure limits: not enough power, compute, or data center capacity • A trust deficit: non-deterministic models powering systems that must be predictable • A widening data gap: human-generated data plateauing while machine data explodesJeetu then shares how Cisco is tackling these challenges through secure AI factories, edge inference, open multi-model architectures, and global partnerships with Nvidia, G42, and sovereign cloud providers. Jeetu also explains why he thinks enterprises will soon rely on thousands of specialized models — not just one — and how routing, latency, cost, and security shape this new landscape.Conor and Jeetu also explore high-performance leadership and team culture, discussing building high-trust teams, embracing constructive tension, staying vigilant in moments of success, and the personal experiences that shaped Jeetu’s approach to innovation and resilience.If you want a clearer picture of the global AI infrastructure race, how high-level leaders are thinking about the future, and what it all means for enterprises, developers, and the future of work, this conversation is essential.Chapters:00:00 – Welcome to Chain of Thought0:48 - AI and Jobs: Beyond the Hype6:15 - The Real AI Opportunity: Original Insights10:00 - Three Critical AI Constraints: Infrastructure, Trust, and Data16:27 - Cisco's AI Strategy and Platform Approach19:18 - Edge Computing and Model Innovation22:06 - Strategic Partnerships: Nvidia, G42, and the Middle East29:18 - Acquisition Strategy: Platform Over Products32:03 - Power and Infrastructure Challenges36:06 - Building Trust Across Global Partnerships38:03 - US vs. China: The AI Infrastructure Race40:33 - America's Venture Capital Advantage42:06 - Acquisition Philosophy: Strategy First45:45 - Defining Cisco's True North48:06 - Mission-Driven Innovation Culture50:15 - Hiring for Hunger, Curiosity, and Clarity56:27 - The Power of Constructive Conflict1:00:00 - Career Lessons: Continuous Learning1:02:24 - The Email Question1:04:12 - Joe Tucci's Four-Column Exercise1:08:15 - Building High-Trust Teams1:10:12 - The Five Dysfunctions Framework1:12:09 - Leading with Vulnerability1:16:18 - Closing Thoughts and Where to ConnectConnect with Jeetu Patel:LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeetupatel/ X(twitter) – https://x.com/jpatel41Cisco - https://www.cisco.com/Connect with ConorBronsdon Substack – https://conorbronsdon.substack.com/ LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/conorbronsdon/X (twitter) – https://x.com/ConorBronsdon
Transcribe →How AI Velocity is Rewriting the Rules for Engineering Leaders | ChatPRD's Claire Vo
Aug 13, 2025Tap to summarizeWhat if your next competitor is not a startup, but a solo builder on a side project shipping features faster than your entire team? For Claire Vo, that's not a hypothetical. As the founder of ChatPRD, formerly the Chief Product and Technology Officer at LaunchDarkly, and host of the How I AI podcast, she has a unique vantage point on the driving forces behind a new blueprint for success.She argues that AI accountability must be driven from the top by an "AI czar" and reveals how a culture of experimentation is the key to overcoming organizational hesitancy. Drawing from her experience as a solo founder, she warns that for incumbents, the cost of moving slowly is the biggest threat and details how AI can finally be used to tackle legacy codebases. The conversation closes with bold predictions on the rise of the "super IC" - who can achieve top-tier impact and salary without managing a team - and the death of product management. Follow the hostsFollow AtinFollow ConorFollow VikramFollow YashFollow Today's Guest(s)Connect with Claire on LinkedInFollow Claire on X/TwitterClaire’s podcast How I AICheck out GalileoTry GalileoAgent Leaderboard
Transcribe →