Hudson: Untreated ADHD & the Dark Side of Antidepressant Withdrawal

Summary

Podcast Summary: Change Your Brain Every Day Episode: Hudson: Untreated ADHD & the Dark Side of Antidepressant Withdrawal
Release Date: July 28, 2025
Hosts: Dr. Daniel Amen & Tana Amen
Guests: Kate and Oliver Hudson

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1. Introduction and Episode Overview

In this compelling episode of Change Your Brain Every Day, Dr. Daniel Amen and Tana Amen delve into the intricate relationship between untreated ADHD and the adverse effects of antidepressant withdrawal. Featuring insights from actors Kate and Oliver Hudson, the discussion highlights personal struggles with anxiety, the challenges of managing ADHD without proper diagnosis, and the impact of medication on brain health.

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2. Oliver Hudson's Personal Story

a. Childhood Anxiety and Lack of ADHD Diagnosis

Oliver Hudson opens up about his lifelong battle with anxiety, which began in his childhood but went undiagnosed as ADHD. This lack of diagnosis led to challenges both academically and personally.

Dr. Daniel Amen [00:00]: "Anxiety was a big part of your childhood?"
Oliver Hudson [00:03]: "Yes."

Oliver explains his disinterest in school not stemming from intelligence, but from an inherent difficulty in focusing—hallmarks of ADHD.

Oliver Hudson [00:33]: "School. Never a good student. Didn't feel like I was stupid. I just didn't like school."

b. Use of Antidepressants (Lexapro) and Withdrawal Challenges

In his early twenties, Oliver experienced a severe panic attack that set him off for over a year. To cope, he engaged in meditation, journaling, and therapy, which provided temporary relief. However, he later turned to Lexapro (an SSRI) to manage his anxiety, which initially helped but introduced significant side effects.

Oliver Hudson [02:09]: "I meditated and I wrote my journals and I was in therapy and I felt better, but there was a residual there and I went on Lexapro. Similarly, I stopped sweating again during that time."

Oliver discusses the severe side effect of impaired sweating caused by Lexapro, leading to overheating and skin issues. Attempts to taper off the medication were poorly managed, resulting in a difficult withdrawal process.

Oliver Hudson [15:39]: "I put my mind into it and I did. And didn't drink for about 40 days. And it was life changing."

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3. Dr. Daniel Amen's Analysis

a. Impact of Lexapro on ADHD and Brain Chemistry

Dr. Amen sheds light on how Lexapro, a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI), can exacerbate ADHD symptoms by increasing serotonin levels, which in turn decrease dopamine—a neurotransmitter crucial for attention and focus.

Dr. Daniel Amen [05:23]: "Lexapro decreases your anxiety, but actually makes you more ADD, because serotonin increases and dopamine drops."

He emphasizes the importance of proper diagnosis and treatment, highlighting that without addressing the underlying ADHD, medications like Lexapro can do more harm than good.

b. ADHD's Impact on Emotional Development and Academic Performance

Dr. Amen discusses how ADHD can make individuals emotionally and developmentally three to four years behind their chronological age, particularly affecting the prefrontal cortex's maturation, which isn't fully developed until around age 25.

Dr. Daniel Amen [08:23]: "When you have ADD, emotionally, you're about three or four years behind your chronological age with the talent you have."

This delay often leads to poor academic performance and challenges in social settings, as evidenced by Oliver's experiences in school and college.

c. Possible Underlying Biological Factors

The conversation touches on Oliver's birth trauma—meconium aspiration—which may have caused a lack of oxygen and impacted his brain development, contributing to his ADHD symptoms.

Dr. Daniel Amen [14:12]: "You may have had a lack of oxygen at that time. And that's probably why you didn't suck and maybe why school was harder for you."

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4. Discussions on Substance Use and Recovery

Oliver shares his ongoing battle with substance use, including intermittent smoking and recent efforts to reduce alcohol consumption. He credits stopping drinking for significant improvements in his mental clarity and overall well-being.

Oliver Hudson [17:56]: "I put my mind into it and I did. And didn't drink for about 40 days. And it was life changing."

Dr. Amen reinforces the importance of substance control for brain health, highlighting that addiction can severely impair cognitive and emotional function.

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5. Strategies for Improving Brain Health

a. Naming Negative Thoughts

Dr. Amen introduces the technique of personifying negative thoughts to combat them effectively.

Dr. Daniel Amen [28:41]: "Give your mind a name and then periodically tell it to shut up."

This strategy helps individuals detach from harmful thoughts and assess their validity objectively.

b. Activities to Activate the Cerebellum

Engaging in coordination-heavy activities like racket sports can enhance cerebellar function, which in turn improves overall brain health and longevity.

Dr. Daniel Amen [27:37]: "The cerebellum has half the brain's neurons. It's 10% of the brain's volume. Has half the brain's neurons. And it's activated with coordination exercises."

Oliver and Kate discuss their own experiences with sports and coordination, recognizing how these activities can benefit their brain health.

c. Hope Scores and Mindsets

The hosts highlight the importance of maintaining a positive mindset and having hope for change. Hope scores assess one's ability to envision a better future and contribute to making that vision a reality.

Dr. Daniel Amen [20:15]: "Hope is the ability to make a change, that tomorrow can be better and I have a role in it."

Oliver reflects on his hope score, acknowledging the need for improvement to foster a more positive outlook.

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6. Conclusion and Takeaways

The episode concludes with a strong message on the significance of proper diagnosis and treatment of ADHD, the dangers of mismanaged antidepressant use, and the transformative power of brain health strategies. Dr. Amen encourages listeners to seek professional guidance to optimize their brain function, emphasizing that better brain health leads to a better, more fulfilling life.

Dr. Daniel Amen [32:27]: "The harder you try, the worse it got. So when I say very similar brains. So reasonably healthy. At rest, when you try to concentrate."

Oliver and Kate leave listeners with actionable insights and personal reflections, inspiring those struggling with similar issues to take control of their brain health.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Oliver Hudson [00:03]: "Yes."
• Dr. Daniel Amen [00:00]: "Anxiety was a big part of your childhood?"
• Oliver Hudson [02:09]: "I meditated and I wrote my journals and I was in therapy and I felt better..."
• Dr. Daniel Amen [05:23]: "Lexapro decreases your anxiety, but actually makes you more ADD..."
• Oliver Hudson [15:39]: "I put my mind into it and I did. And didn't drink for about 40 days."
• Dr. Daniel Amen [28:41]: "Give your mind a name and then periodically tell it to shut up."
• Dr. Daniel Amen [20:15]: "Hope is the ability to make a change..."

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This episode serves as a profound exploration of the complexities surrounding ADHD and antidepressant use, offering both personal anecdotes and expert insights to guide listeners toward better brain health and overall well-being.

Transcript

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Anxiety was a big part of your childhood?

[Kate Hudson]

Yes.

[Oliver Hudson]

In my 20s, I had a real moment of a panic attack and it set me off for a year, year and a half. And I meditated and I wrote my journals and I was in therapy and I felt better.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Cut.

[Oliver Hudson]

Two years later on Lexapro. Similarly, I stopped sweating again during that time.

[Kate Hudson]

During.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

No one diagnosed you with add?

[Kate Hudson]

No.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

So people are drugging your brain?

[Kate Hudson]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Based on what you tell them.

[Oliver Hudson]

Oliver Hudson is an American actor famous.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

For his roles in the TV series the Mountain and Dawson's Creek.

[Oliver Hudson]

School. Never a good student. Didn't feel like I was stupid. I just didn't like school. Went to college for two years. Left after two years. I wanted to start my life. I wasn't mature enough to want to learn.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Well, and when you have add, emotionally, you're about three or four years behind your chronological age with the talent you have. Imagine if you could. Every day you are making your brain better or you are making it worse.

[Podcast Host]

Stay with us to learn how you.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Can change your brain for the better every day.

[Podcast Host]

This podcast is brought to you by the Change your Brain foundation, dedicated to ending the concept of mental illness by creating a revolution in brain health. Go to changeyourbrain.org to learn how you can support our mission.

[Podcast Co-Host]

Welcome back to the Change your Brain Everyday podcast. We are back again with Kate and Oliver Hudson. We're having such a great time. These interesting sibling brains explain so much probably about your lives as well.

[Listener]

Oh, yeah.

[Podcast Co-Host]

So welcome. Thank you.

[Listener]

Thank you.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Oliver. Yeah. Your goal. Want to know more about your brain? I'm very excited about that. And we look at you. The things I pulled out from your history. Anxiety was sort of a big part of your childhood.

[Oliver Hudson]

It's not day to day where I'm feeling anxious every single day. In my 20s, I had a real moment of a panic attack and it set me off for a year, year and a half. And I meditated and I wrote my journals and I was in therapy and I felt better, but there was a residual there and I went on Celexa and it kind of evened me out. Select the Selexa off for years. Did a show in Nashville for two years. It started to come about again. I had another panic attack. Went back on Lexa Pro, evened out Lexapro. Then I wanted to wean off because of a sweating issue, which I don't know if you were informed about, which so weird. Which happened actually in my 20s when I went on Celexa. The reason I came off of Celexa the first time was because of this sweating situation where he couldn't sweat. I couldn't sweat, and I'd overheat. And it wasn't colored bumps. It was like this scaly sort of bumpy all over my body. And I could not release toxins. And I gained water weight. I went to every doctor. I had biopsies done. No one knew what it was. So I came off my Celexa and my Lipitor, and over time, I started to sweat again. Assume that was it. Cut. Two years later on Lexapro, similarly, I stopped sweating again. I remember I saw it here. I'm like, oh, it happened again. So I weaned off of my Lexapro, began to sweat a little bit more, but then went crazy. I mean, the. The withdrawal process was horrible.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

How much Lex Pro were you on?

[Oliver Hudson]

20 milligrams.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And how did they taper you off of it?

[Oliver Hudson]

Oh, gosh, I think it was like.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Zero.

[Oliver Hudson]

Five. Maybe at a time. I don't remember.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Probably five milligrams.

[Oliver Hudson]

Five milligrams?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Yeah.

[Oliver Hudson]

Yeah. Maybe five milligrams at a time. I'm not 100.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Sure.

[Oliver Hudson]

And maybe the taper was not done as well as I should have. I should have paid attention to it.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Yeah. People, they don't. When they put you on this stuff, they don't tell you, you know, if it doesn't work and we have to take you off or if it crooks and you want to go off. Yeah, that could be a nightmare.

[Kate Hudson]

Yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

For it.

[Oliver Hudson]

It was crazy. Anyway, I had to go work in Albuquerque and I was like, I can't be an actor feeling like this. I just can't do it. I mean, it was horrendous. Trying to be a dad, being with my kids, being a husband, waking up, having to fake it. Not fake it, but just being.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Persevere through it.

[Oliver Hudson]

And I went back on Lexapro and then, you know, so far, I mean. And that was four years ago. Three and a half, four years ago. And that's where I'm at right now. 20 milligrams of Lexapro.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

10.

[Oliver Hudson]

20.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

20. Okay. And so during that anxiety, no one diagnosed you with add?

[Kate Hudson]

No.

[Oliver Hudson]

Never had that. Never created the opportunity to even.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And no one looked at your brain?

[Oliver Hudson]

No, never.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

So people are drugging your brain?

[Kate Hudson]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Based on what you tell them.

[Kate Hudson]

Yes.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Rather than any underlying.

[Oliver Hudson]

Yes. Biology 100.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

That sounds crazy.

[Kate Hudson]

Yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

I can't stand it. That's my job. Right. I'm a psychiatrist trained to diagnose insanity. Like, how would you Know if you didn't look.

[Oliver Hudson]

Yeah, right. And entirely it was more at your brain.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And now it's on Lexapro. So it's all. Could be right. As busy as her. So I'm seeing a Lexapro brain. But when you have anxiety and add, the Lexapro decrease your anxiety, but actually make you more add, because serotonin. So Lexpro is a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor. Increases serotonin. Whenever you increase serotonin, you drop dopamine. They sort of counterbalance each other. And so your dopamine is probably already naturally low. And so less anxious, more add.

[Oliver Hudson]

And then I search for that too.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And with the history, the family history of alcoholism, I studied children, grandchildren of alcoholics, a very high incidence of a subtype of ADD called over focus. Add, where the problem is not so much. You can't pay attention, you can't shift attention. You get stuck. So.

[Kate Hudson]

Yeah.

[Listener]

Oh, that. You know, we talked to this person one time, Oliver and I, and he was really great. And he. He said he's a. He's an ADD expert, basically. And he was like, very funny. But basically was like, oliver, the problem is you got to get off the Lexapro and get on an ADD medication and you'll realize that you don't have the, you know, like that. I could have told you that. Like that, you know, And I thought I found that really interesting. And that's sort of what also made me go, I need to call Dr. Amen, because we need to find out what's going on.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Well, if you don't look, you don't know. Yeah, looking helps. Tell me about school.

[Oliver Hudson]

Growing up school, never a good student. Didn't feel like I was stupid. I just didn't like school. Again, procrastinator. Did everything last minute, but I knew how to get by. My superpower was just knowing how to sort of get by and make it happen. Although I did get expelled for cheating in high school, and I was.

[Listener]

There were nine other kids that cheated in the class. Yeah, you were the only one who got exposed.

[Oliver Hudson]

I wasn't evolved.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

When you have add, you're more likely to get caught. I was thinking all the way.

[Oliver Hudson]

I was very good. I was doing very well for a minute. And then, you know, I had one slip up. I loved school because I love being social. I loved my friends. I loved that aspect of it. The school part was just more tedious to me. Went to college for two years, left after two years. I wanted to start my life, my career. I wasn't Mature enough to want to learn. I feel like that's the interesting thing about college. Which is a whole other conversation.

[Kate Hudson]

We.

[Oliver Hudson]

We force the kids off to go 17, but sometimes they're not ready. I was not in my 20s is when I became curious about the world, about reading.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

You know, when you have add, emotionally, you're about three or four years behind your chronological age. And your prefrontal cortex doesn't fully develop until you're 25. And so I'm not a huge fan of sending kids away to school because I'm like, you're gonna put them with a whole bunch of other underdeveloped brains that are gonna make bad decisions.

[Kate Hudson]

I just.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

No. Keep them at home a little bit.

[Oliver Hudson]

Yes. Longer.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Even though the parents are like, okay, I'm done.

[Oliver Hudson]

Oh yes.

[Kate Hudson]

Yes.

[Oliver Hudson]

So I was never. I was never an academic.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And maybe it's because you didn't have the attention span.

[Listener]

Yeah.

[Oliver Hudson]

100.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

So maybe I had nothing to do with your ability. It had a lot to do with your ability to focus.

[Kate Hudson]

Oh.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

100.

[Oliver Hudson]

And I was. I was much more of a visual, hands on, learner. Auditory. Might as well just speak Charlie Brown to me. You know, that's like, me too.

[Listener]

I'd be like, literally, like, try for like one minute.

[Kate Hudson]

And then. Yeah.

[Listener]

You know, like a thousand things.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

So many different.

[Kate Hudson]

Yeah.

[Oliver Hudson]

Which makes sense in my life right now. I mean it all has translated to adulthood. Absolutely.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

How about this spiritual circle? So why do you think you're on the planet?

[Oliver Hudson]

This is a funny question because I don't know. And some. I've been thinking about this lately. You know, everyone seems to have an idea or at least a desire to as to why they think they're on the planet. But when I'm really looking at it and being logical about it, why am I on this planet? To procreate. I guess. For me it's about being a father. If I had to narrow it down. We don't leave. We don't leave behind money or fame or all that. Our true legacy, our children. That's what carries us on, I guess. And that's what can create generations of stability or instability. And I think it's my job to create stability with my kids and then send them off. And then who knows what the hell is going to happen. But at least I did my part. But I do ask myself, what am I, what am I supposed to do here? I do have that question a lot. And I'm like, am I doing what I'm supposed to be doing right now? But what Is what am I supposed to be doing? I ruminate, and then it kind of cycles, you know? So that's the long answer. The short answer is raising my children. I love making people laugh. I think I have a. I. I have untapped talents that I think ADD is holding me back from because I get overwhelmed by process.

[Listener]

He's an amazing writer.

[Oliver Hudson]

I think I. My perspective on life is unique. I think that if I can put that down in writing or directing, it will be something that people would, you know, respond to. Because I see how people respond to me in real life.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

With the talent you have, imagine if you could better actualize it, better focus, less procrastination.

[Podcast Host]

Because a lot of people go, oh.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

No, I'm not going to take medicine because I don't want to be somebody different. And my question is, do you want to be who you are when your whole brain works?

[Kate Hudson]

Right. Yeah.

[Oliver Hudson]

It's like, without a doubt.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

I remember one of my. When I was a young psychiatrist, I saw this kid, and he says, if you think I'm bad, you should see my dad. But dad wouldn't come. Then I saw his sister. She said, if you think I'm bad, you should see my dad. He wouldn't come. Then I saw the wife because of her chronic stress because of the dad. And finally everybody's getting better, and the dad shows up and his brain's, like, very similar to both of yours. And I treated him the next year. He made three times the amount of money because he could focus.

[Kate Hudson]

Yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

The goal is just optimal.

[Kate Hudson]

Oh, yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Performance.

[Kate Hudson]

Yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Or ability.

[Oliver Hudson]

The frustrating part for me is the recognition that I. It's in me. And then the frustration is that I can't move past this barrier, you know? And then I quit.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

So if we look at your bright mind's risk factors. Okay, so low blood flow. You've had high cholesterol for how long?

[Kate Hudson]

For.

[Oliver Hudson]

I mean, genetically forever. Since.

[Listener]

Yeah, we all have.

[Oliver Hudson]

Since I first had cholesterol taken at 15, 16.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

So what's your cholesterol now?

[Oliver Hudson]

It's on Lipitor. With lipitor, it's like 270. Oh, 280, but it was 350, and now it's this. And I'm on 40 milligrams. And now they want to bring me.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

They.

[Oliver Hudson]

They need to get it down a little bit lower. I. I did a calcium score last year. Zero. This year it's a two.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Pretty good.

[Kate Hudson]

Yeah.

[Oliver Hudson]

And then I still have a little. I have a tiny drop of plaque in my left carotid. So it's like, they're like, it's time to sort of, you know, not let that build up, I guess.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Okay. Played hockey. Any concussions?

[Oliver Hudson]

None. Again, none that I know of. I was banged around, I'm sure a ton. You know, didn't play soccer, but, you know, I'm hitting my head as a young boy, man. Sports, basketball, elbows, all that kind of stuff. Fights now and again. Never really fought much, but I never got knocked out and I never have had a noticeable concussion to where I went out.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

You know. One of the wild cards for you is at birth you had meconium aspiration and then you were a month in the natal. Three weeks to a month.

[Kate Hudson]

Yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Icu. You may have had a lack of oxygen at that time.

[Kate Hudson]

Yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And that's probably why you didn't suck and maybe why school was harder for you and why you didn't perform. And nobody's even thinking about that. They think it's your attitude when it might. It had your brain. Right.

[Kate Hudson]

Yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

I had this boy from Hong Kong who had birth trauma and when he saw a scan, he started to cry and he said, it's not me, it's what happened to me. So, yeah, substances have been there occasionally.

[Oliver Hudson]

Yeah. So substances, you know, smoking on and off. You know, I've. I have had quit for years at a time. And then I'll smoke when I drink or there was times when I was smoking a pack a day. It's been on and off. Alcohol only in the last two months, three months. I've really taken a big time break because it was just becoming too much. And I was sort of chasing the feeling of. Feeling of feeling shitty. And I love how you phrase that.

[Kate Hudson]

Yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

I chase the feeling of being shit.

[Kate Hudson]

Yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

I write that down. I just think that's so creative.

[Kate Hudson]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Because that's exactly what happened.

[Oliver Hudson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I just got tired of it and I got tired of feeling like shit, honestly. And I decided to stop, which is not easy for me to do.

[Kate Hudson]

But I put.

[Oliver Hudson]

I put my mind into it and I did. And didn't drink for about 40 days. And it was life changing.

[Listener]

Wait, you wrote Aspen home mold, too?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

I.

[Podcast Host]

No, I wrote.

[Kate Hudson]

Okay.

[Listener]

It would have been the best because.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

I read your history. This is so good for me to be able to do siblings.

[Oliver Hudson]

And it was amazing. I mean, really, just the clarity, the energy I had. I honestly felt like some of the add.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

You should break up with alcohol.

[Kate Hudson]

Yeah.

[Oliver Hudson]

Which I have been so. You know, now, like, I. Last time I drank was. I don't know, a little while ago, I'm. I'm trying to have a better relationship with it to where it's mitigated. I can have a martini now and again rather than 75. I know. We talked about this on the podcast.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

I stand for professor. I treat. And we saw each other at a conference and he said, I want to thank you. I'm sorry. Okay. Why? He said, I wake up 100% every day because of you. Don't you want that?

[Kate Hudson]

Yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Don't you just want to wake up a hundred percent?

[Kate Hudson]

Yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Every day?

[Kate Hudson]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

And it's like you're in a bad.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Relationship with alcohol and it's like, oh, but I just want one. It's like, oh, you just want this crazy woman back a little. Totally.

[Oliver Hudson]

In my, in my brief sobriety, I, I discovered, oh, my God, you know, you don't necessarily need it because there's a fear of anyone who drinks, as you guys, I'm sure know that life is over and you can't go out anymore and you're going to be boring and it's not going to be fun. And so I had to cross these benchmarks with going fishing, with golfing, with, with going out with my friends and not having a drink, which was not easy to do, but it became a lot easier. And then you go home, you're like, I had a good time. What's the problem?

[Listener]

I. Incredibly boring.

[Podcast Host]

I had fun.

[Oliver Hudson]

She, she, she did. For real. I was reading Hemingway.

[Listener]

It is my birthday. You are reading Hemingway.

[Oliver Hudson]

I'm reading Hemingway. It's her birthday. They're all in the pool in the Palm Desert having the time of their lives with margaritas.

[Listener]

I was like, are you kidding me right now?

[Oliver Hudson]

And I'm reading Hemingway, loving it.

[Podcast Co-Host]

That's so funny.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

So we have a high school course called brain thrive by 25. And it's been in all 50 states, seven different countries and decreases drug, alcohol and tobacco use. Week four, it's 12 week course we go, okay. Brain health is love your brain. Avoid things that hurt it. Do. What helps at week four is avoid these things. A 14 year old boy, never a girl goes, how can you have any fun?

[Podcast Host]

And so we play a game with.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Them called who has more fun? The person with the good brain or the person with the bad brain who gets the girl and gets to keep her because he doesn't act like a jerk. Person with the good brain or the person with the bad brain who gets into college and finishes. Person with the good brain, a person with the bad brain. And it's mindset. And virtually everyone that has told me they stop drinking tell me they have more fun. In fact, Miley Cyrus, she gave me permission to talk about this. I was doing a lecture to a whole bunch of teenagers who wanted to go to medical school. And I was a complete failure for eight years with her and a wild success in the last six. And so I texted her, I said, are you having more fun with your good habits or the bad ones? She goes, ha, Good by a billion. Right. And if you look at her career now, is it better than when she was. She stopped smoking weed, messed up, and drinking.

[Kate Hudson]

Did.

[Listener]

She's sober.

[Kate Hudson]

Wow.

[Listener]

She's been so.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And she's.

[Podcast Co-Host]

She's such. She's just fun.

[Kate Hudson]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Oliver Hudson]

She's growing up.

[Podcast Host]

I. I can.

[Oliver Hudson]

I can see that. I can see that.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

You know, and just the question is, is it good for your brain or bad for it? And if you love yourself, see, this is where love comes in. Well, why would you hurt yourself if you loved yourself and you loved your children? Because, you know, every day you are modeling health or you're modeling. Yeah. It's not health.

[Kate Hudson]

Yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Oh, gosh.

[Kate Hudson]

No, I know.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Okay, do what you do, not what you say.

[Oliver Hudson]

It's true.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Your hope score we didn't talk about it was actually really good.

[Listener]

My Hope score?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Yeah, 61.

[Listener]

What does that mean?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Hope is the ability to make a change, that tomorrow can be better and I have a role in it.

[Listener]

Oh, yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

I like yours. Not so good. We make yours better. Sounds sense.

[Oliver Hudson]

That's my hopes for 49.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

It was 49. It could be better. Oh, not all four, but it could be better.

[Kate Hudson]

Yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

All right, let's look at yours. Total brain. Really good at reading faces. Read positive ones, get your feelings hurt if somebody upsets you. This is sort of stickiness. Not terribly stressed now. Not anxious, not depressed. Look at your memory. It's freaking awesome. This is your long term memory and this is your short term memory.

[Listener]

God, that's so annoying. I'm the opposite.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

You scored actually fairly well on focus. Planning was great. Processing speed, not so good.

[Oliver Hudson]

That's where you were 100.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Flexibility, not so good again. My flexibility was 4. 47 on conscious negativity bias. So the lower it is, the more negative you are. You're actually really good.

[Oliver Hudson]

What is the conscious negative bias?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

But is it so important? Wow. Does your brain quickly tend to go to what's wrong, what's right?

[Listener]

Does that mean like, emotionally or like, oh, I need to know where my exits are?

[Podcast Co-Host]

Oh, that's.

[Kate Hudson]

Yeah.

[Podcast Co-Host]

That's me. I think that's a woman thing.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

It's emotional. Oh. That. You tend to color things with what's wrong.

[Podcast Co-Host]

But if she's looking for what might be a threat.

[Oliver Hudson]

Fear or.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Right, that's this one. That's this one. This is non conscious negativity. Tannis, Tanner's over here, and I tried to train her over here.

[Podcast Co-Host]

I don't want to be over there.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

No, I want.

[Podcast Co-Host]

I don't care about people smiling at me. I want to see the terrorists on the street.

[Oliver Hudson]

Right, right, right. And social connectivity. That makes sense.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

It's really good. All right, let's look at your scouts, Holly. So at.

[Listener]

What are those weird little. It's like a.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

All fine. So at rest, your brain actually doesn't look bad. So even the substances you've done has not done any permanent damage. Oh, good. That's really great. When you try to concentrate and it.

[Listener]

Drops Here, look at the face in your brain, where there's the fate. There's the eyes, that's the nose, that's the mouth.

[Oliver Hudson]

Oh, upside down.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

This is sort of like a Rorschach.

[Kate Hudson]

God.

[Oliver Hudson]

But okay, so what is.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

What's that? Rest. Concentration. The harder you try, the worse it gets.

[Kate Hudson]

Yes.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

It's not a choice. Right. For you. And at some point, you probably did have a.

[Podcast Co-Host]

Didn't you say that the. The Lex Pro might be making that worse?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Yes.

[Kate Hudson]

Yeah.

[Oliver Hudson]

When you were saying.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Now I'm not saying you should get off of it. And Yeah. I recommended Dr. Storage.

[Listener]

Yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And I think if you guys want to talk about getting your meds readjusted, he'd be perfect.

[Oliver Hudson]

Okay.

[Podcast Co-Host]

For you.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And I love him.

[Kate Hudson]

Yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Plus, you guys always have access to me.

[Kate Hudson]

Yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Thank you.

[Oliver Hudson]

But, yeah, when you were saying that about Kate, I was like, oh, my God, that's me. Like, when I try to concentrate, holes in our brain. I can't. It almost has to just come to me.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

So let's do it together.

[Listener]

Oh, gosh.

[Oliver Hudson]

It's a little concussion.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

You don't have holes in your brain. What that means is when you concentrate, there's less blood flow.

[Listener]

Yeah, I see.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

The harder you try, the worse it got. So when I say very similar brains.

[Kate Hudson]

Wow.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

So reasonably healthy. At rest, when you try to concentrate.

[Listener]

It'S like, oh, my God.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Harder you try the worst guts. Wow.

[Oliver Hudson]

Is that what that is, too?

[Listener]

Why is it in different hemispheres?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

I have no idea. Huh.

[Listener]

It's interesting.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

You're both right handed.

[Listener]

No, I'm left handed.

[Oliver Hudson]

I'm both all sports, and then Motors.

[Listener]

I'm left handed. I'm right. Everything else, like, right. Yeah, we're both.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

You throw ball.

[Listener]

I throw ball left. I right, left. But I. I play tennis. Right. And I golf. Right. And he's the opposite.

[Oliver Hudson]

I do every sport. Left, kick, everything. But all my fine motor is right. So I write with my right hand.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

How interesting.

[Kate Hudson]

My right hand.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

That's so interesting.

[Kate Hudson]

Yeah.

[Listener]

Wow. That's. That's wild. They're so similar.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

They're so similar.

[Podcast Co-Host]

Is that sort of. How does it make sense, though, to how you guys feel about each other?

[Oliver Hudson]

This entirely. I mean, and I've been saying this forever, just that, you know, I need to unlock something to, you know, realize my full potential. And for me, there wouldn't be a depression on the back end of that because I would be so excited to be able to.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Holy geez.

[Oliver Hudson]

I can actually finish this or I can actually realize this idea that I have, you know?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Well, and so many people think they're more evolved or they're more intelligent if they oppose medication. And I'm like, well, what's your brain look like? Because the goal should never be medicine or no medicine. The goal should always be your best function. And if medicine helps, God bless.

[Oliver Hudson]

I have no stigma to taking an ADHD med. The only hang up that I have is that I did try a Vance once. One of my wives. And out. My wife, my wives, my many wives, Solomon. And.

[Kate Hudson]

And missing something.

[Oliver Hudson]

I'm going to get. I'm going to get so much done. And it sort of put me out. I was like, I don't feel good. I didn't like it.

[Listener]

You're also on antidepressants sense.

[Oliver Hudson]

No, I know, but you can do both.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

But you need to work with somebody who really knows what they're doing.

[Kate Hudson]

Yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Who has your brain.

[Kate Hudson]

Yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

See, nobody up to this point has ever had your brain.

[Kate Hudson]

Right.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And if we look at active part of your brain, is your cerebellum sleepy. This is probably why the coordination is not a strength of yours. But I would work on it so that you begin to train your cerebellum to be more active.

[Oliver Hudson]

So funny.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

It's just ping pong.

[Kate Hudson]

Yeah.

[Oliver Hudson]

Why is it specifically racket?

[Listener]

Just come play tennis with me at the riff.

[Oliver Hudson]

Yeah, but why is it racket?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Because you got to get your eyes, hands, and feet all working together while you think about the spin on the ball. Ball.

[Oliver Hudson]

Right.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And people who play racket sports live longer than everyone else. Right. And I'm convinced the cerebellum. You remember Rodney Dangerfield like, worry because some people.

[Kate Hudson]

Yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

They go, who's this? Am I really that old?

[Oliver Hudson]

No, no, no.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And he used to always say, I get no respect.

[Kate Hudson]

Yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

The cerebellum has half the brain's neurons. It's 10% of the brain's volume. Has half the brain's neurons. And it's activated with coordination exercises. So if you activate this, you're going to turn on your frontal. Interesting. I'm.

[Oliver Hudson]

I'm a very coordinated person. Just generally, just not racket. I mean, I'm a scratch golfer. I know the ball's just sitting there. You know what I mean?

[Podcast Co-Host]

But like, dance is also good. And martial arts. Hit, get hit in the head.

[Kate Hudson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Oliver Hudson]

But the rack, it's so funny because, like, terrible at all racket sports, so.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And I would just embrace that.

[Kate Hudson]

Yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And I'm like, well, next month I'm going to be a little bit better.

[Kate Hudson]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And next month I'm going to be a little bit. Get rid of the negative cognition.

[Kate Hudson]

Yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

I'm terrible at records.

[Kate Hudson]

Yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Because as soon as you say that, it drops your cerebellum.

[Oliver Hudson]

Yes.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Like when you're playing golf, if you go, I'm gonna miss the shot. Yeah, of course.

[Kate Hudson]

Yeah. So, yeah.

[Oliver Hudson]

My self. Talk is crap, generally.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

So give your mind a name and then periodically tell to shut up. I love that so much. Give your mind a name.

[Kate Hudson]

Yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And I call the man Michael Singer with the.

[Listener]

The untethered soul. When he talks about. I think that was in the beginning of bunch of. So he talks about how if we named our brain, if we named the person talking to us and they were sitting right next to us, you'd be like, you need to get out of.

[Kate Hudson]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Podcast Co-Host]

That's.

[Kate Hudson]

Yeah.

[Listener]

Is that Michael's Singer? I think that was a great. Yeah, I suppose it's not all bad.

[Oliver Hudson]

I wake up every morning and say, it's gonna be a great day. I mean, I. I say that out loud, you know, and. And again, since I haven't been sort of partaking and drinking much, like, it's just I. I'm way more alive and excited to sort of tackle a day. But I go in chunks. Like, I can only read for like 20 minutes and I'm gone. And then I need to do something.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

So now our goal would be get you to read for an hour.

[Kate Hudson]

Yeah.

[Listener]

Oh, I want to read for an hour so bad.

[Oliver Hudson]

I'm loving reading right now.

[Listener]

20 minutes, I'm great. And then after that, it's like I either fall asleep Or I just start to feel like I'm crawling out of my skin.

[Kate Hudson]

Yep.

[Oliver Hudson]

I know I have adhd Bad. Because the things that I love to do. Fishing, number one. I will talk myself out of even participating in the thing that I love the most. Strangely, you know where. I know how exciting it is. I know how fun it is to get ready and to plan and to do what I'm like, Ah, forget it.

[Podcast Co-Host]

Feels overwhelming.

[Kate Hudson]

Yeah.

[Oliver Hudson]

Yeah, yeah, that's me.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Your brain can be so much better.

[Kate Hudson]

Yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Younger, healthier. And this. Your emotional brain is busy even on Lexapro, which means it's not fully doing what it needs to do. And this can color things more negative than they need to be. I often say, whenever you feel sad, mad, nervous or out of control, just write down what you're thinking. Then ask yourself whether or not it's true. And if you give your mind a name, go. But I talk to my child this way. And if the answer is no.

[Kate Hudson]

Right.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

It's like, I can do better.

[Kate Hudson]

Yep.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And think of it like a good coach.

[Kate Hudson]

Yep.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

You've had good coaches.

[Kate Hudson]

Yep.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

They notice what you do. Right. And they teach you when you could do better.

[Kate Hudson]

Yep.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

If that's the mindset you have. And then when you go to bed at night, go, what went well today? And, like, in a formal way, what went well today? Start at the beginning of the day. I get to wake up with her. So that's usually the first thing on my list. And then just go hour by hour searching for what you liked about the day until you're asleep. And if you get to the end of the day, go back to the beginning and look for more things. Usually.

[Kate Hudson]

Yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And it sets your dreams up to be more positive. Just because you have a thought has nothing to do with whether or not it's true, whether or not it's helpful. Thoughts are random. They're insane. And it's not the thoughts you have that make you suffer, it's the thoughts you attach to.

[Kate Hudson]

Right.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

That make you suffer. I'm no good at rocket sports.

[Kate Hudson]

Yes.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

So then you don't do that.

[Oliver Hudson]

Of course.

[Kate Hudson]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Listener]

I wonder, like, if my brain. I was like. It's like, if racket sports help, then I feel like I. That should be stronger in me.

[Oliver Hudson]

Then you just gotta play more.

[Listener]

I guess I'll play more.

[Kate Hudson]

God.

[Podcast Host]

So have you had labs done?

[Oliver Hudson]

Yeah, I just did.

[Kate Hudson]

Yeah.

[Oliver Hudson]

I had a ton with David Allen and it's very, very labs.

[Kate Hudson]

Yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

He's an integrative doctor.

[Listener]

He's like a. Yeah, he's not, he's not a doctor. He's a nutritionist kind of. But he does everything. He's like super researched and I've heard of him. Yeah, yeah. He, he's f. He's great.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Questions covered a lot.

[Oliver Hudson]

You know, I mean the. I don't have a question just about optimization and sort of supplemental optimization, but then also prescription. You know, I wouldn't mind trying an ADHD medication to see how that changes, you know, the way that my brain functions. Can I take an ADHD med while on Lex Pro? Is that okay?

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Absolutely. I wrote a book in 1994 called Healing the Chaos Within. It's about children, grandchildren of alcoholics who had ADD with depression and tended to be over focused and Prozac and Ritalin miraculous for them. And so I mean you could take Lexapro with Concerta or Lexapro with Vybans and I think you just have to work with someone who will dial it.

[Kate Hudson]

Yes.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

With you.

[Kate Hudson]

Yes.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

Said you can give good feedback to.

[Kate Hudson]

Yeah.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And your brain can be so much better.

[Kate Hudson]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Whether you're a police officer, firefighter, emt, therapist or other personnel, you have to face high intensity stressful situations on a regular basis. In some cases you have to make split second life or death decisions. The job can lead to critical incident stress, lack of focus, irritability, difficulty relating to others on the job, lack of motivation, excessive alcohol or drug use, and more. Hi, I'm Dr. Daniel Amen. As a psychiatrist and brain health expert, I've worked with hundreds of first responders and I've seen that all of these issues are related to brain health problems. Brain dysfunction is the number one reason why first response have trouble on the job and in life. To perform at your best, you need to be at your best. This means you need to optimize your brain because everything you think, do or feel is based on the physical functioning of your brain. Coaching yourself and your colleagues to better brain health is the key key to being more effective. My change your brain, change your life for first responders course can help you do it. By following the simple yet powerful brain health strategies in this course, you and your team can develop peak performance. Better decision making, greater resilience, more energy, less fatigue, better moods, critical incident stress reduction, healthy skills and coping mechanisms, stronger communication skills in high risk, emotionally charged situations, and so much more. With a better brain always comes a better life and a better first responder. The time is now for a brain health revolution and it starts with you. Sign up now. Well, this has been so interesting.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

I love I think I'm gonna do more sibling scam. You should.

[Oliver Hudson]

Well, we're very similar. I mean, we're similar.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

You're very similar. Similar. And maybe even more similar if she was taking Lex.

[Kate Hudson]

Right.

[Dr. Daniel Amen]

And so thank you so much for watching. Leave us a comment, question or review. Share it with someone. Your sibling. Perhaps you're watching Change youe Brain every day.