Podcast Summary: "Quieting the Suffering Pathways in Your Brain & Impact of Adverse Childhood Experience (ACE) Scores"

Podcast: Change Your Brain Every Day
Hosts: Dr. Daniel Amen & Tana Amen
Episode Date: December 8, 2025

Overview

In this episode, Dr. Daniel Amen and Tana Amen dive deep into the intertwined relationship between emotional trauma, chronic pain, and brain health. Through personal stories, clinical insights, and practical strategies, they explore how Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACE) can wire the brain for suffering — and how targeted interventions, both natural and pharmaceutical, can help quiet these pathways and catalyze healing. The episode spotlights the journey of their niece Amelie, illustrating hope and resilience in the face of debilitating pain syndromes rooted in trauma.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACE) and Chronic Pain

• Impact of High ACE Scores:

  • Tana shares personal and family ACE scores: "We mentioned in a previous episode, I have an ACE score of 8. My nieces both have a 9." (06:00)
  • High ACE scores signal early exposure to trauma, which can manifest as constant mental "chatter" and heightened pain sensitivity throughout life.
  • Dr. Amen: "If you get an ACE score of 9, it means someone's been arrested, someone has a mental health problem, someone has an addiction. There's physical emotional abuse, neglect, witnessing domestic violence." (03:20)

• Neuroscience of Trauma and Suffering Pathways:

  • Traumatic experiences light up the "suffering pathway" in the brain, increasing inflammation and risk for conditions like PTSD, chronic pain, and even suicide attempts.
  • Dr. Amen references their research: "Our 7,500 scan study on ACEs showed an increase in the medial pain suffering pathway, which then spikes inflammation." (08:15)

2. Amelie's Story: From Trauma to Recovery

• Childhood Trauma and Chronic Pain:

  • Amelie, exposed to significant early trauma, developed chronic pain and eventually Complex Regional Pain Syndrome (CRPS): "She was starting to settle in ... and then someone came up behind her accidentally and kicked her and broke her foot ... It wasn't healing ... became a disaster ... turned into complex regional pain syndrome." (03:51-04:30)
  • CRPS symptoms described as severe: "Even taking a shower, it was like an explosion of needles ... She couldn't stand socks or bed sheets, everything just was just searing pain." (04:36-04:45)

• Psychological Toll and Hopelessness:

  • Watching a documentary on CRPS amplified feelings of hopelessness: "The documentary did not leave a lot of hope, and it was a very scary thing ... It just didn't leave you with a lot of hope." (05:08)
  • Dr. Amen describes this negative feedback loop: "The invasion of ANTs and negativity. I'll never get better. My life is doomed ... more social isolation, more muscle tension." (05:30)

• Turning Point and Integrated Interventions:

  • Multimodal approach: reading "The Way Out" (on pain), medication (Cymbalta), EMDR therapy for trauma, and physical therapy — "Psychosocial, spiritual, the whole relief loop we did with her." (07:19)
  • EMDR initially aggravated her symptoms as it resurfaced trauma, but ultimately facilitated progress: "Initially the EMDR made her worse ... But then it got better." (07:12)
  • Amelie’s remarkable recovery: "She goes around five miles today with a friend ... How something that often accelerates into a disaster was... [she healed]." (07:32-07:46)
  • Tana: "She's so happy now. She's doing a law magnet program in high school, lots of friends. It's fantastic. But it took over a year, like almost two years." (07:54-08:15)
  • Key insight: Persistent support, tailored interventions, and addressing both brain and body were critical to her healing.

3. Brain-First Approach to Chronic Pain & Emotional Health

• Medication vs. Natural Alternatives:

  • Cymbalta (Duloxetine) is spotlighted for pain and mood: "Cymbalta is FDA approved for chronic pain. It increases serotonin... an inhibitory neurotransmitter. It calms things down." (09:35)
  • Not all medications fit all brains: Tana’s adverse reaction to Prozac underlines the importance of personalized treatment — "I wasn't depressed. I didn't feel much of anything, but I was dangerously impulsive ... this isn't me." (11:08-11:40)
  • Dr. Amen: "Which is why you have to scan people before you put them on medication. ... 85% of psychiatric drugs are prescribed by non-psychiatric physicians in seven-minute office visits ... they have no clue what your brain actually looks like." (12:40)

• Personalized Supplement and Medication Protocol:

  • Wellbutrin worked better for Tana’s brain type, with natural alternatives (SAMe, Saffron, TMG) proving effective for mood and pain: "Wellbutrin didn't help with the pain so much, but the SAMe actually helps with the pain." (13:17-14:01)
  • Saffron is highlighted for its robust evidence: "It has 28 randomized controlled trials for depression. But it also has trials showing it helps libido and sexual function... for premature ejaculation, they’re great. But I don’t want to ruin my patient’s sex life." (16:14-16:41)
  • Supplements with most evidence for pain: Curcumin, omega-3 fatty acids, magnesium, B vitamins, Boswellia (Frankincense), saffron. (15:18)

4. The Role of Nutrition, Vitamin D, and Gut Health

• Vitamin D & Sunlight:

  • Dark-skinned individuals, or those living far from the equator, have a much greater risk of deficiency and associated brain/mood problems: "If you are African American or Indian ... you actually need five times the amount of sun to get ... because you’re blocking it..." (19:10-19:29)
  • Effects of low vitamin D: More prone to chronic pain, emotional problems, being overweight. Dr. Amen’s personal anecdote: "I remember when I first checked, my vitamin D level ... was 17. ... when I supplemented, my appetite went away." (19:29-20:18)

• Diet, Gut Health, and Probiotics:

  • Both hosts stress that gut health is foundational: "Everybody should take a probiotic because if your gut’s not healthy, nothing else is going to be healthy." (18:33)
  • Dr. Amen: "Everybody should take a multiple vitamin ... I like Neurobite+ so much, because it has really healthy doses of B6, B12, folate..." (17:33)

• Preview for Next Episode:

  • Focus on foods to eat/avoid for chronic pain and the role of specific diet principles in reducing suffering. (22:42)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the brain-pain-trauma link:
  • Dr. Amen (05:30): "When she first came in our lives, we scanned her and her suffering pathway [was] on fire from before, likely because of the trauma that she experienced."
• On hope through comprehensive care:
  • Tana (07:54): "For many people, they never heal from [CRPS]. ... The fact that she is running now, she's so happy now ... it's fantastic."
• On psychiatric medication prescription practices:
  • Dr. Amen (12:40): "Why are psychiatrists the only medical doctors who never look at the organ they treat? ... 85% of psychiatric drugs are prescribed by non-psychiatric physicians in seven-minute office visits."
• On personalized brain health solutions:
  • Tana (13:17): "The one antidepressant that did work for me ... was Wellbutrin ... Sammy actually helps with the pain. So it's interesting. ... There are drugs, but there's also natural things."
• On vitamin D for mental and physical health:
  • Dr. Amen (19:10): "A lot of people don't know that if you are African American or Indian ... you need five times the amount of sun ... you're blocking it."
• Amelie’s triumph:
  • Dr. Amen (07:46): "Blew me away. How something that often accelerates into a disaster was...” [cut: implied recovery]
  • Tana (21:10): "Amelie embraced doing the stretching exercises we had. Initially we had to push her ... That's what your parents are for. We're going to push you."

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Amelie's Story Begins: 03:01
• Description of CRPS: 04:30-05:00
• Impact of ACE and Trauma on the Brain: 08:15
• Discussion on Cymbalta and Medications: 09:35
• Tana’s Personal Medication Story: 11:08-12:40
• Supplements & Natural Alternatives Breakdown: 15:18-18:33
• Vitamin D, Sunlight, and Pain: 19:10-20:18
• Amelie’s Recovery Process: 21:10
• Next Episode Teaser - Diet and Pain: 22:42

Takeaways

• Chronic physical and emotional pain is often rooted in early life trauma, which can wire the brain's suffering circuits.
• Hope and healing are possible through personalized, comprehensive care — incorporating both medical and natural therapies, addressing the whole brain and body.
• Not all medications are right for every brain; brain imaging and symptom awareness are vital.
• Supplements like saffron, curcumin, omega-3s, and vitamin D are evidence-based options for supporting brain and pain health.
• Gut health, vitamin D levels, and individualized nutrition are critical for mental and physical well-being.
• Persistent support, love, and the right interventions can break cycles of suffering, even with daunting diagnoses.