Democracy is in trouble right now. In the US, Trump’s authoritarian impulses are closing over the checks and balances that used to make space for people to participate. In the UK the success of Reform in May’s local government elections reveal that people are increasingly seeing politics as elite sport - choosing to attack the system as a whole. In Australia, the success of One Nation in recent bi-elections suggests that it is also not immune from this anti-democratic movement.

In this chat with democracy academic Hahrie Han we explore this challenge, and some seeds of hope that are emerging at the local scale. Recorded ahead of the UCL Policy Lab’s Ecosystem Project gathering in May 2026 (where Hahie and Amanda are both speaking), they talk about source of hope that lie in the practices of a politics that can build spaces that can invite and explore people who are different, and have different opinions to work together.

Things might be grim, but we are never without power. This conversation seeks to make practical where collaboration across our differences can make a difference.

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We talked with Hahrie back in 2019 - take a listen to it here: https://changemakerspodcast.org/hahrie-han-changemaker-chat/

For more on the UCL Ecosystem project, visit: https://ecosystem-project.ucl.ac.uk/

For more about Hahrie Han’s work (including her latest book Undivided and her many books on organising, people power and making change), visit: https://www.hahriehan.com/

For more on ChangeMakers check us out:

Via our Website - https://changemakerspodcast.org (where you can also sign up to our email list!)

We have a brand new podcast called ChangeMakers Digest - co-hosted by Samuel Chu and Amanda Tattersall, take a listen: https://changemakerspodcast.org/category/episodes/digest/

You can keep up to date via:

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ChangeMakersPodcast/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/changemakerspodcast/

Threads: https://www.threads.com/@changemakerspodcast

Blue Sky: https://www.threads.com/@amandatattersall.bsky.social

For more on the books and Amanda’s writing, have a look at:

Amanda’s website - https://amandatattersall.com/

Conscious Tribes: thinking differently about making a difference - here and via Hardie Grant

People Power in Cities - here and via Oxford Uni Press

On Substack - https://substack.com/@amandatattersall

On Medium - https://amandatatts.medium.com/

And - her much earlier book about coalition building - Power in Coalition and via Cornell Uni Press