← Chapter & Verse: Storytime from the Stacks
Chapter & Verse: Storytime from the Stacks
From Shelves to Support: Evolving the Library Experience
00:22:38
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- [00:03]
Debbie McCullough
Welcome to Chapter and Verse Storytime from the Stacks. This is an original podcast series from the Michigan Library association and the library cooperatives of Michigan. We'd like to give a shout out to our episode's sponsor, Midwest Tape and hoopla. I'm Debbie McCullough, executive director of the Michigan Library association, where we lead the advancement of all libraries through advocacy, education and engagement. And I'm joined by my co host.
- [00:33]
Andrea Estelle
Andrea Estelle from the Southwest Michigan Library cooperative. We serve 38 public member libraries in the southwest corner of Michigan from Allegan county all the way to the Indiana border. Our vision is creating strong libraries and strong communities together.
- [00:51]
Debbie McCullough
So this is our sixth episode where we are providing insight and inspiration from Michigan library leaders who bring purpose to their work and are proving that libraries positively change the communities we work and live in. And with us today is Sarah Skinner, the director at the Bridgman Public Library in Bridgman, Michigan. Welcome to the podcast, Sarah.
- [01:17]
Sarah Skinner
Thank you. I'm super happy to be here today.
- [01:20]
Debbie McCullough
Nice to have you with us. So we're going to just start with some basics. Just tell us a little bit about your background and where you've come from and how you got to be the director of the Bridgman Library.
- [01:31]
Andrea Estelle
All right.
- [01:32]
Sarah Skinner
Well, I initially started at the Niles Library in 2016. My youngest child had gone into school, so I didn't have to stay home anymore. I'm one of those people that has to have a job, otherwise I go a little crazy. So it was really great. I was able to, you know, start there in the computer lab, actually. So I worked at the information desk and computer lab. I had a couple different positions there. I was the information and readers services manager for a while, and then I was promoted to head of adult services. So I was in that position for a little while. And I had this great vision of what I thought a library should be. So when Bridgman had an open director position, I applied.
- [02:24]
Debbie McCullough
Hey, we're so glad that, you know, you've made some movement over on that west side of the state. So it's always good to see you, you know. Did you choose the work in library for a reason?
- [02:36]
Sarah Skinner
Yeah, libraries have always been, you know, a safe place for me, a happy place. When I was a child, my dad would take me to the Niles Library actually once a week, like without fail. We would go every week I would leave with a stack of books, you know, and the children's librarian at the time had a really big impact on me. You know, I'd go up to her desk and ask for the little cassette tapes that had the books on em, and I'd listen to them or, like, get little dollhouse pieces. So just the kindness of that children's librarian when I was small really made me love libraries. And my dad, I mean, he read to me for as long as I can remember. He read me the Hobbit when I was six years old.
- [03:23]
Andrea Estelle
So my daughter and I just started reading the Hobbit.
- [03:28]
Sarah Skinner
Yay. So he just really instilled a love of book books and storytelling in me. So it was a good fit.
- [03:38]
Andrea Estelle
Can you share a memorable moment where you made a difference in someone's life through your work? Sarah and how do you feel like you change lives through your work at the library?
- [03:48]
Sarah Skinner
Well, one of the major things that I did at the Niles Library, we hosted a Project Connect. So that is where you get a bunch of different social service agencies together in one room so folks could come in and, you know, go to all the different services that would be helpful for them. And that was a really big program, and it had a lot of impact on our community. I had lots of people telling me, you know, this is wonderful, because I had over 40 different tables there, so everyone was like, you know, this is great. I was able to find the services I need. And, you know, we were giving away little grab bags with personal care items and things like that that people would need. So I really feel like that was one of the biggest impacts that one of my programs have had.
- [04:41]
Debbie McCullough
So turn it around a little bit and tell us a little bit about when a patron maybe made an impact on your life.
- [04:49]
Sarah Skinner
Oh, boy, that's a tricky one. There's just a lot, you know, as a director, I feel like I. I do a lot of observation now. You know, I used to be a programming librarian, so, you know, I was in the thick of it, but now I. I observe interactions a lot, and some of my favorite are with little kids that we have here. So we have a little boy that he comes to some of the programs, and he really likes our children's librarian. So he brought his grandma or grandpa, some caregiver in, and he saw him sitting at his desk, and he goes, that's my guy. That's my guy. Come meet him. So it's like those little interactions where, you know, people are making a connection that really make my heart grow, you know, because I feel like libraries should be a center of the community and really facilitate the interactions between community members. So when I see those kind of things, it's like my Heart grows ten times the size.
- [05:57]
Debbie McCullough
I love it. I love that it's about connection making. I think in the world that we live in right now, that connections are harder to come by. You're the people watcher. Like, I, you know, I see people like you, like, you know, sitting and just. Just watching everything that's going around. And when you could see those connections being made, it does make your heart throb just a little bit harder.
- [06:20]
Sarah Skinner
So it really does, because I'm trying to focus a lot on, like, family programming here because I want people to say, I went to the library with my family and we had a really good time and we made some great memories there. So that's my main focus, is just try to help facilitate good memories like the ones that I have.
- [06:43]
Andrea Estelle
That's awesome. Sarah, what's one thing you wish you had known when you began your career?
- [06:48]
Sarah Skinner
Honestly, it's how to solve problems. Because when you go to library school, you know, they're teaching you all about collection development and policy and, you know, all of these different things. But when I come here and somebody's like, oh, hey, there's a leak above the door. I'm like, oh, who do I call for that? Do I call a roofer? Do I call, yes, the fixer of everything. I need one of those. But, yeah, it's always just very interesting. It's like, okay, so who should I call? You know, the things they don't teach in library school.
- [07:26]
Debbie McCullough
It's really funny because that's, I think, why we enjoy our work so much, all of us, is because it's. It's a different thing every single day. Nothing to do with what happened yesterday. It's a new day. Like, one day at a time, but it's a new day.
- [07:41]
Sarah Skinner
Absolutely.
- [07:43]
Debbie McCullough
How has your work changed over time? And kind of, you know, you've had a number of different positions within the library, but, you know, kind of lead us through, like, some of the roles that you've played and what you've done in those roles. And then what led you to say, I can be the director of that library? I mean, there was something. There was an aha moment that said, I got the skills, I got the talent, I got.
- [08:09]
Sarah Skinner
So when I first started at Niles, like I said, I was in the computer lab because, you know, my dad and my brother are both computer guys, so I know about that kind of stuff. So it was a good fit for me there. And then I started working with their program director, you know, running some programs, and I'm like, wow, this is super fun. I like running the programs because I get to interact with people, you know, and I have lots of ideas. So that was great. And then I just kind of progressed there into some management positions because, you know, I had such a love for the library that I wanted to be there more and have a bigger impact on my community, you know. So I went into the management position so I could come up with better ways to facilitate the community's interactions with each other. So probably about three years ago, I just started thinking about, you know, the libraries, and I had finished my master's degree, so I'm like, well, what do I want to do? And I had a vision of what I feel libraries should be in a community. And, you know, I feel like the director is more of the person that sets the tone for the library, essentially. So I'm like, you know, I am a happy person. I don't know. I just have lots of great ideas on how to interact with the community, how to interact with staff. So I'm like, well, let's give it a shot. And honestly, since I've been in this position, you know, I really. I love it because I get to see how all of the staff impact the community, not just what I'm personally doing.
- [10:02]
Andrea Estelle
That's one thing I love about being a director, too, Sarah, is that you can set a vision and just try things and you can create whatever type of library you want to have. And the thing I love about the directors in Southwest Michigan Co Op is they're all so creative and building such wonderful libraries for their communities.
- [10:24]
Sarah Skinner
Right. I definitely agree.
- [10:26]
Andrea Estelle
So I know you have a really good story about this. What is the most interesting or unexpected thing that has happened to you in the library and how has it impacted your life? Maybe it isn't a super big impact, but it's a fun story.
- [10:42]
Sarah Skinner
It's a fun story. I mean, it has impacted me because now I know who to call when I have this issue. So one day we had some patrons in the library, and all of a sudden I hear somebody scream. So I'm like, oh, boy. Yay. So I come out of my office and a patron and one of our staff members goes, oh, my God, there's a squirrel in the library. And I'm like, wait, what? A squirrel? And they're like, yeah, it ran up the five fireplace. And I'm like, oh, no. Oh, no. So we were trying to block the squirrel from coming back. So we had a lot of duct tape and other things going on around the fireplace, but apparently he had other ways in. So we had a resident squirrel for probably two weeks until we finally caught him. We called several exterminator people, and one guy actually finally got him. And I came in in the morning and noticed that he was in the trap. And I'm like, yes, no more squirrel. It was a stressful couple of weeks because every morning I'd come in, you know, and you could tell that the squirrel had been around. He found candy. So we found, like, wrappers everywhere, and we found little poops on desk. So every morning, we sanitize every flat surface.
- [12:17]
Debbie McCullough
I can't even imagine what that would be like. Like, ivy looking around, like, busy behind me.
- [12:25]
Sarah Skinner
Because I get in here, like, almost an hour before everybody else does. So it is quiet, and I'm just, like, listening for it, and you hear something, and it's like, oh, was that squirrel? Where is it?
- [12:37]
Debbie McCullough
The great thing about this interview, everyone, is that Andrea and I can see Sarah's animation in telling the story, and it's absolutely hilarious.
- [12:46]
Sarah Skinner
So very animated. Oh, my.
- [12:51]
Debbie McCullough
We've heard a couple of stories, I will have to say, in some of the prior interviews that we've done on the podcast, we've heard about birds and we've heard about other animals. No one has told the great squirrel stories. And I guess we have to acknowledge when the doors open, everybody is welcome.
- [13:10]
Sarah Skinner
Yeah, anybody can come in. Oh, my gosh. It's so true, because one morning I came in, and, like I said, you know, it's all quiet. So I heard the squirrel, and I went and I peeked around the corner into the break room, and it was in the break room. I'm like, yeah. So I shut the door, and I called the exterminator, and I'm like, I've got him trapped in the break room. Please come here quick. And then he gets here, and he's like, yeah, he escaped. I'm like, how did he escape? And he goes, he went into the wall. And I'm like, what? He went into the wall?
- [13:50]
Debbie McCullough
Sitting there by the fireplace. Right, right.
- [13:52]
Sarah Skinner
I mean, he was just chilling. I have a video of him from our cleaning people. He got up on the back of a chair and had something, and he was just sitting there, like, nibbling at it. They sent me that video, and they're like, do you know you have a squirrel? Yes, I do.
- [14:10]
Debbie McCullough
Let's take a quick break to hear more from our episode sponsor hoopla.
- [14:16]
Sarah Skinner
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- [14:33]
Debbie McCullough
Well, we can tell your love and your passion for the library just in the funny story that you've told, but how do you share that love and that passion that you have with your community or with your family and friend? I mean, it just so wonderful to kind of hear how it impacts you. But how do you share all of that then?
- [14:53]
Sarah Skinner
I try to be like the biggest advocate for the library. You know, wherever I'm going, you know, I'm telling people about the programs that we offer and the other resources that, you know, if you come to my library, we can help you with that tech question. Or, you know, if you come here, we can get you that book even though we don't have it. I love preaching the gospel of the library. So, you know, and when my friends are like, oh, you know, I downloaded this book, and I'm like, oh, you probably could have got that free from your library. It's always things like that. And I try to put myself out into the community so people recognize me and know that, oh, the library really cares about, you know, this event going on in the city. You know, we'll have a booth with kids, activities during Bridgman days during the summer. You know, we're always trying to insert ourselves into the community and the schools. And little fun fact, whenever I go on vacation, I go to the local library and my kids think I'm lame.
- [16:02]
Andrea Estelle
I do that too. Sarah.
- [16:04]
Sarah Skinner
Excellent.
- [16:05]
Andrea Estelle
I even went to a library in Alaska. It was awful cool. I wondered, what do you wish everyone understood about your job?
- [16:14]
Sarah Skinner
I wish that people understood that, yes, you do have to go to school to be a librarian. That is a question I get frequently. They're like, you have a master's degree to be a librarian. And I'm like, yeah, you kind of need it.
- [16:33]
Andrea Estelle
You know, that's one thing that kind of bothers me a little bit. Just a little that when people come to the library, they think everyone is a librarian. And that's not true. Not everybody working at the hospital is a doctor. And the same thing with the library. Not everyone who's working here has got the library and status.
- [16:55]
Sarah Skinner
Right, exactly.
- [16:56]
Debbie McCullough
But that coming from the library world. When I would walk into a library, the person who was checking my book out in my eyes, in patron's eyes, was the librarian. So we don't have a good vocabulary out, you know, the patron doesn't really understand kind of The. I won't even call it the hierarchy, but there is a. You know, there's definitely those with structure. Yeah, their structure and the. Those advanced degrees are something that I think were, you know, need to be clear cut a little bit more. But, you know, the front desk, who, you know, is probably a volunteer when I walked in. Thank you, librarian. You know, very nice to meet you. You know, so I think we have to get to the point where we understand that as well, so.
- [17:41]
Sarah Skinner
Yeah, absolutely. But, yeah, and another thing that I find interesting about my job is how well I understood that there would be a whole lot of administration, obviously in a director's position, but once again, I didn't expect to put out so many fires. And once again, like we just spoke about trying to figure out who can help me put out those fires.
- [18:09]
Debbie McCullough
Again, you know, no day is the same. You know, we went back and forth over that a little bit, but no day is the same. And I think that that motivates us to find, I'll call them solutions to the issue at hand and then to relish in that we found the solution and we're on to the next thing, you know, right away. So it kind of sounds like that's kind of where you're at with some of the director work.
- [18:34]
Sarah Skinner
Absolutely. I want to solve this problem so we can move on to something that's going to be more fun.
- [18:40]
Debbie McCullough
We have time for a couple more questions. So today's world has changed. You know, we went through Covid, you know, five years. Was it five years ago? You know, oh, my gosh.
- [18:50]
Andrea Estelle
Yeah.
- [18:51]
Debbie McCullough
And now we're facing some other challenges. But what do you think the. Maybe the biggest challenges that our libraries are facing in the next five or 10 years? Where do you think we're going?
- [19:02]
Sarah Skinner
Right. I really think that, you know, staying relevant as a library is very important because honestly, if you just have books and you don't offer anything else to your community, I wouldn't think that a lot of people would use the library, because most of the people that come here, it's not just for our materials. You know, it's to use the computer, to use the wifi, to talk to the people at the desk for that human interaction. So I think finding different ways to be present in people's lives and let them know that, hey, the library is here for you. This is your library, not my library. It's your library. So that's how I feel like we make an impact on the community is just really focusing on them so they can see themselves inside the library.
- [20:01]
Andrea Estelle
What do you think are some of the biggest challenges facing libraries over the next 10 years?
- [20:06]
Sarah Skinner
Well, right now, we are dealing with a little bit of funding uncertainty when it comes to funding. You know, it's always up in the air, especially when prices are rising and all of these different things. You know, we can't guarantee that we're going to bring in the same amount of revenue, you know, every year to be able to provide these services to our community. So I think finding some stable funding that might not go away would be absolutely wonderful so we can continue the work that we do. Because I really think it's important to be there for the community.
- [20:46]
Debbie McCullough
You know, what gives you hope? What are you most excited about in the future?
- [20:50]
Sarah Skinner
Honestly, like, seeing people using the library is what gives me hope. Seeing the parents bringing their children into the library and showing them that this is a safe place, this is a fun place to be, I really think that gives me hope because it builds that love inside of children. And, you know, once again, I know it's cliche, but they're our future, so we want them to love the library so they can participate in the activities, and once they get to be voters, you know, they can vote for millages and things like that. So just building a love and appreciation of the library, I think, is what's super important.
- [21:32]
Debbie McCullough
Very motivational.
- [21:36]
Sarah Skinner
I've actually been told that I am too happy and positive, and I'm like, whatever it takes more muscles to frown than it does to smile. So I'm gonna smile. Call me lazy, but I'm gonna smile.
- [21:52]
Debbie McCullough
Oh, thanks again for joining us today, Sarah. And thanks to everyone for listening to the April episode of of Chapter and Verse Story Time from the Stacks. We hope you'll join us each month for new episodes, and we want you to subscribe to the podcast on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcast. We also wish to thank our episode's sponsor, Midwest Tape and Hoopla. Much appreciation for listening. And we'll see you in may when Mallory DeVilbiss, the co op director at the Suburban Library Cooperative, and I will sit down with our guest, Olivia Olson, head of Community Engagement at the Troy Public Library.