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- [00:04]
Debbie McCullough
Welcome to Chapter and Verse Storytime from the Stacks. This is an original podcast series from the Michigan Library association and the library cooperatives of Michigan. We'd like to give a shout out to our episode sponsor, Midwest Tape and hoopla. I'm Debbie McCullough, executive director of the Michigan Library Association. We where we lead the advancement of all libraries through advocacy, education and engagement. And I'm joined today by my co host.
- [00:35]
Steve Bowers
Hi, I'm Steve Bowers from the Library Network. We serve the 3 million people of Southeast Michigan. The library Network believes libraries are about access, respect and belonging. Our work looks to provide solutions that build a supportive community throughout our network of libraries to ensure that everyone we serve, from the library employees to the patrons and community members, feel validated, important and included.
- [00:57]
Debbie McCullough
Thanks, Steve. It's good to have you with us. I can barely believe that this is our fourth episode already, and I think it's so cool that we're able to hear all of the great stories that provide insight and inspiration from Michigan library leaders who are bringing purpose to this work and proving really that libraries positively change the communities we work and live in. With us today is Azita Frattarelli. She is the library director and the youth librarian at the Riverview Veterans Memorial Library. Azita has been with Riverview for seven years, and we're going to hear more about her career and the things that integrate so many of her strengths and interests. Welcome to the podcast, Azita.
- [01:45]
Azita Frattarelli
Hi, Debbie. Hi, Steve. Thank you for having me. So.
- [01:48]
Debbie McCullough
So it's nice to have you with us. And I guess let's start with maybe your first memory of a library.
- [01:54]
Azita Frattarelli
Yeah. So my first memory of a library is from when I was in first grade, so I'm guessing around the age 7. We had moved from one town to another, and I was sort of devastated. It was the middle of the school year and I was leaving all my friends behind. And this was before school of choice, so I had to go. There was no choice to stay. And so I got to the new school and I didn't have any friends and I was struggling a bit. And the teacher said we were going to the library. It's a very core memory. You know, we're going to the library and we get to look at books. And I was so excited because I was a reader. I loved books. And so we went to this library and I can still see the school library in my. My memory. It was huge in my memory. You know, the windows were from the floor to the sky. The bookshelves were just as tall and we sat down at the tables and we had some sort of library lesson that I honestly don't remember. But she was talking about all the books and everything you could find there. And being new, I was still kind of quiet. And she said that I could get any book that I wanted. You know, what was I interested in? And I still remember that question. And I was like, any book, you know, And I kept thinking, and I was very and still am very in love with Sesame Street. And I said, you know, I love Sesame Street. Sesame Street. And she brought back to me. They were called Sesame Street Encyclopedias, and they had different letters, and it was stories and games and pictures. And I was just enamored. I was over the moon that I was able to look at this book, and I was able to keep it for the week or whatever it was. And I still honestly have a set here that were donated. And I squirrel them away in my office because I still love them so much. Because that memory. And I remembered feeling just so welcomed, and I felt finally like I had a place at the school. And I still think about that all the time. And the interesting thing is, is when I go visit libraries now, the libraries that resonate with me the most are the ones that have a lot of windows. And I never put it together until I thought about it. And I thought that's because that core memory was that libraries had these big shelves and big windows. And I still love them today.
- [04:06]
Debbie McCullough
Wow, that's a great story. We're gonna do a little back and forth with me and Steve. And so I'm going to give Steve the next couple of questions here.
- [04:15]
Steve Bowers
All right, first of all, I have to tell everyone, Azita is one of my favorite persons in library land.
- [04:21]
Azita Frattarelli
Thank you, Steve.
- [04:22]
Steve Bowers
And that's an important statement because I know you didn't start out in library land. This is kind of like a new career for you. So can you tell us why did you choose to end up working in a library?
- [04:34]
Azita Frattarelli
I would love to. So, interestingly, I've always loved and used libraries, you know, as a reader, but it was never in my wheelhouse that I was going to become a librarian. So I actually started my undergraduate wanting to be in medicine and joined the school paper there just to have an extracurricular activity. And then very quickly realized that writing was what I wanted to do, and I wanted to work in journalism. So I worked at my school paper, and then I took other jobs working at local newspapers, doing graphic design. Actually, it just sort of like evolved into to a career, and I did that for many, many years. And then as the print industry changed, I was laid off when I was actually pregnant with my first daughter. And I thought, this is a time to really evaluate what I want to do. And so I went back for a degree for composition studies, a master's degree. And I thought, well, I'll do writing. You know, I'll teach or I'll write a book, something like that. And then again, got another job, freelance writing and working in graphic design, and kind of went off on that for a while. And then my daughter hit kindergarten, and they were looking for volunteers for the Scholastic Book Fair. And I had sort of forgotten about the Scholastic Book Fair, but the minute I saw the flyer and the pick out the books for your child, I said, oh, this is what I'm going to do. I'm going to volunteer for book fair. So I started volunteering. And it just being in the school, working with the librarian to get books for her library, helping the teachers get what they needed, something just clicked. It was like one of those moments where all of the stars just sort of came together and it aligned. And I thought, well, this is pretty great. So I volunteered for a few years. And then the library I work at now, actually the Riverview Library, was looking for a teen group director. And I had been staying home freelancing for about seven years. And I thought, well, this would be a nice way to get out of the house a few hours a week and kind of see work in a library, which I'd been coming to weekly with my daughter to get books and story times. And so I asked, you know, hey, I don't have any experience with teens or working in a library, but what do you think? You know, I'd been a longtime patron. And he said, yeah, let's. Let's give it a try. He said, write some ideas down. He liked them. He hired me. I worked 10 hours a week and just fell in love with the public library. Like, I thought I loved the school library. And then I got to the public library, and I was like, oh, whoa. It changed my whole life, honestly. And within, like, a few weeks of taking that job, the principal at the school called me and said, the parapro is leaving the library, and we'd love for you to work at the school library. And I said, okay, now I have two library jobs, and I took that one as well. So I started working at the school and the public library again, a few hours at each, and just. It just cemented it. And within, I would say, about a year of doing both Year and a half I went back for my mlis and I told the director here, I said, I, I wanna do what you do in the public libraries. Like this is what I wanna do. It brings together so many things I'm interested in. The art, the writing, working with children, the books, volunteering, all of those things that you're interested in. It all sort of just came together.
- [07:40]
Debbie McCullough
That's so great, so many aha moments together. I mean, I don't know that I've heard all those stories, but I'll tell you and maybe Steve will share too. I was in criminal justice first, then I got a theater degree and now I'm working with libraries. So I love that you came from kind of different places, but where'd you come from?
- [07:59]
Steve Bowers
Well, I went to college. I was the first person that went to full time college for my, you know, my parents went to some community college. But so when I went to college, I knew I had to go to college, that everybody understood that. But I had no idea what I was going to do. And I ended up got a part time work study in the library. So I was like, I'll do libraries. And then the library director said, you know, you have to get a master's degree. Which, yeah, for those of you that don't know, in our listening audience, you know, the traditional pathway to being a librarian is actually getting a master's degree. But you know, I was in love with school book fairs as well. Those scholastic school book and school libraries, they do a lot more than have just books, you know, like pencils and erasers and stickers and stuff too. But I do want to say shout out to our friends in school libraries, thank you for the work you're doing. And our friends at the Michigan association of School Libraries, we stole Azita from you.
- [08:59]
Debbie McCullough
So we got her.
- [09:01]
Azita Frattarelli
You hooked me right into the public library. So, yeah, it was. What's interesting too is that when I was in college, my undergraduate, I also did a work study in the library and I loved it, but again, never put the pieces together, you know. And I had a teacher in high school who said, you know, I like to write, you should have you considered writing? And I said, I just like doing it, you know, it's just something I like to do for me. And so it's interesting how like those little nuggets, you know, when they say drop little hints in life, you know, you have to pay attention to those little hints. It's like they were kind of dropping around me. It just took me a while to.
- [09:35]
Debbie McCullough
Get There you had all the edges put together. You just had to put all the middle stuff together, right?
- [09:41]
Steve Bowers
Yeah. We owe a thanks to all the academic librarians. They pull in a lot of people and say, hey, you don't have a major yet. Why don't you work at the library? Another shout out to our friends at the Michigan Academic Library Association.
- [09:55]
Debbie McCullough
I loved your story at the beginning about in first grade, the librarian who kind of led you to some of the books, and you had a visual of the space and things like that, but the person that she was led you to books that you love. And so talk a little bit about maybe some memorable moments that you've made in the lives of some of the people that have come into your library. You know, how do you change lives within that with all of the things that you've talked about already? You're obviously affecting a lot of people because of the love and the passion that you're showing for the work that you're doing.
- [10:33]
Azita Frattarelli
Well, that's really kind of you to say, Debbie. And, you know, you. The question's interesting because you don't think about that. You're making memories for, you know, the people that are coming in or, you know, that you're affecting that them in any way until you get some of that feedback and then you say, oh, wow, I didn't realize that that little thing I did made a difference. And I think about all the time. So as a youth librarian here as well, I do have the benefit of being in a small library. I get to be the director, and I get to kind of dip my toes into some of that fun programming, you know, and working with the children. And one of my favorite stories is there's. When I first became director, there was a young man named John in my story time, and he was three. And John was one of the most articulate, interesting children I had ever met. He could talk about anything. He spoke like an adult, complete sentences, and talked about his grandparents like they worked for him, you know, what they did for him. It was just the funniest kid. And we just had a rapport. And he would come in and tell me all about his life, and, you know, we would have story time, and he went on his way. And so then he eventually went to kindergarten, which is the sad tale for most of us with our special story time children. They leave us and go to kindergarten. You don't always get to see him again. And the next year, I didn't see him. And then I was in my office, and his grandma came in and said, hey, John's gonna be with me. And he asked if he could see you over the holiday break. Cause he hasn't seen you in a while. And I thought, oh my gosh, really? I said, yeah, absolutely. So he came in, same kid, a year later, just telling me all about his life and school and everything I'd missed. I mean, just. And she had to like beg him to go pick out a book just to get him to go. Because I mean, it was a solid hour of just standing at my office door. We were just talking about everything. And now every year at the holidays, it's been about four or five years, he still asked to come and see me and to fill me in. And it. It gives me goosebumps even thinking about it. Because it was, in my opinion, anything that was, you know, some sort of big event that happened or it was literally just our weekly story time and taking the time to let them talk, you know, to have their moment at story time. So it's one of my favorite, and another one that really always hits me around the holidays is we had a patron whose wife was in advancing health issues. And so she wasn't able to really come in and get books anymore. So for a while he would come and get them. And then she wanted to be able to take them with her to the hospital, but didn't want library books. Cause she was concerned about losing them. So he said, you know, her favorite author, I think it was James Patterson and Valdacci and a few of the big ones. Hey, if you get any through the book sale, could you just put em aside? I said, no problem. So for months and months we did. We'd put em aside, he'd come in, he would take em to her. And unfortunately we hadn't seen him for a while. She had passed away. And you know, we had a pile and we didn't know. And we said, you know, we saved these. And he said, you know, thank you so much, but you know, she's no longer with us. And he said, I just want you to know, like, what a difference you made in her life. Like she talked about the library all the time and that you were keeping the books for. And she looked forward to the books and you guys would slide in something new to see if she liked it. And she appreciated that. And again, it was something we didn't really think a whole lot of. It was like, well, this is what we're going to do. But the impact that it made and to get that feedback back, it's just amazing.
- [13:52]
Steve Bowers
So Little is, I love you, Zita, because you are a people person. That's what public libraries are. They're for. They're people that want to work with other people.
- [14:02]
Azita Frattarelli
Yeah. So really, it's true.
- [14:04]
Steve Bowers
You know, everybody's favorite book as a kid was Maurice Sendak's where the Wild Things Are. And I think that's popular in libraries because that's true about libraries, too. There's people there, and where there's people, things are wild. I don't know, Azita, if you maybe have a little more wild story to tell us or something fun that happened or a lesson that you learned at the library.
- [14:24]
Azita Frattarelli
Oh, we've had a lot of fun around here. There's, you know, the best thing, and I think it comes maybe even from being so interested in writing and journalism. It's an interesting connection of just really loving people and finding them very interesting. And so working in the library, you really get to not only know people, you know, you get to have your. Your regular patrons. But just watching life happen, watching how people move through the world, is extremely fascinating to me. And we talk about all the time. It's one of our favorite things because there's always new people coming in. Everyone's so different, has such dynamic personalities. And we're lucky in libraries that even though we work in customer service, 99% of the time, we're not dealing with angry patrons or people that are upset. 99% of time, they're here because they want to be. They're grateful that we exist. You know, they need something, and they just want help, and that's a really awesome thing. But some of the patrons that have come in and the stories they tell. Yeah, we've had quite a few. I think one of the funniest was, oh, gosh, it must have been two or three years ago now. We had a patron come in who hadn't been in the library, and I think he said, like, 30 years. It had been a really long time. And he said he had seen. We had posted something on our. I think it was our Facebook about the new library cards we had printed. We got, you know, these new library cards with a picture of turtles from our pond. They're kind of famous around here. We have a pond out front, and a patron took this great picture of the turtles. We put it on the card, and people were coming in because they liked the turtle picture on the card, which was great. And he said, I haven't been here in 30 years. And, oh, look at how different it is. You know, he was Just going on and on. And he was so funny because it turned into like this whole story about how, where his life had been going, you know, where he had been, why he hadn't been here. And we learned from, you know, in the span of five minutes, like why he had not been in the library to like the couple marriages he'd had, you know, the vacations he had taken. And you just kept listening and he kept going. And you know, at the end he looked at us and he said, well, this was just such a, you know, a nice visit, you know, I can't wait to come back and talk to you again. And we're like, you know, anytime. It was just, it was so great to be here today. And he kept, he was so excited to be here. And I realized, we realized in that moment that it didn't matter what we said in return. We could have told him that the sky was blue and directed him to books. It was just that he was making a connection to another person and a place with people that were actively listening and interested in what he was saying and interested in actually helping him find anything he was looking for. Because he would say, oh, I went on this vacation. I heard, you know, a staff member say that was standing next to me. Oh, we have books about, you know, up north and oh, that's fantastic. So I tell you, this one time I was on a fishing hole, you know, and so it was just a really great. And it was funny because you, you're standing there thinking, maybe we should stop, you know, cause there's other patrons and there's probably something else we should be doing. But he kept on going and he would come in and continued for years and we haven't seen him in a while. I think he moved. But to me that was one of the greatest stories because it was so unexpected.
- [17:35]
Debbie McCullough
Let's take a quick break to hear more from our episode sponsor, Hoopla.
- [17:41]
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- [17:59]
Debbie McCullough
In our world today, where we're so much social media, the kinds of interconnections and the social atmosphere of what's happening in a library is truly more important today than it's ever been. And I think that what you're doing, you know, you're standing in your doorway talking to little John, you're talking to the, you know, this patron who just wants to connect with people. And I think, Azita, that's part of what you do so well, as Steve said earlier, you as a people person, that becomes the culture of your library. And I assume you're passing that along to all of your staff. And everybody knows that those kinds of connections, those one to one kind of connections, even if you don't know what they're talking about or don't, are so critical today. So I give you a lot of credit.
- [18:56]
Steve Bowers
It's a great lesson for today. You know libraries about connection.
- [19:00]
Debbie McCullough
Yeah, yeah.
- [19:01]
Azita Frattarelli
And kindness. Kindness is so big.
- [19:04]
Debbie McCullough
Yep. Little acts of kindness.
- [19:06]
Steve Bowers
The story you told me one time, Azita, about the individual that came in, they're like, what, you have comic books?
- [19:12]
Azita Frattarelli
Yeah. So. And I have to tell the bird story. I forgot about the bird story really quick, and then I'll go back to the comic book. So I was trying to think, you know, things happen and you kind of forget and it reminded me. So we have drop ceilings. We had some work done. I'm convinced that there are 500 species of birds and animals living in there. I, I'm just convinced and DPW cannot convince me otherwise. So they were doing some work and they moved some ceiling tiles. And so I'm sitting at my office, the bathroom, staff bathroom's kind of near me. They had a tile open and a bird flew out and flew across the library. And I thought, well, I know I'm just drinking soda today. I haven't, you know, I, I, I think I really did see that bird. And I sat here and then another bird flew and I thought, oh my gosh, there's really birds in that ceiling. So I walk out of the office and then no one's really reacting. And I thought, oh my gosh, I am hallucinating. Like, what is happening? And then a patron in the back, I hear him go, oh, there's a bird up there. So I said, oh my gosh, we've got birds in here. So they're flying around. And I said, now we have to get the birds out. And the patrons are all, you know, we're all trying to help us get these birds out. Well, birds fly away. They don't want to be around people. And so now we have birds flying all over the library and people who think they're all bird experts trying to get the birds out of the double doors. We have no windows that open like most libraries, so we only have emergency exits. This went on. It flew underneath the Dropbox. And so we're like, we Put a coat over it. We're all hunched around it. We're like, we're gonna get this bird. And we pull it out. There's no bird underneath it. And we turn, and he's sitting, like, looking at us on this perch. I swear, it was ridiculous. So finally, we somehow. Stacy, who works with me, we get them into the kids area. We're like, all right, we're gonna turn the lights off, and there's an emergency exit. We gotta get him out the door. So we prop the door open, and this bird's not moving, and people are still coming back, like, trying to talk to it. And we're like, let's just be quiet. You know, quiet library. Maybe he'll just hop right out the door. Nothing. So. And no joke. This was the real interaction. I said, I have a sandwich in my lunch. I'm gonna make a trail of bread. Cause it had gone underneath the bookshelf. I'm gonna make a trail of bread from the bird to the door. And it's going to hop out like a little fable, comic book, Disney movie out the door. So I literally was on the floor trying not to scare it, putting these, like, pieces of bread. And I am not joking. We smacked away. And the little bird hopped out and ate every piece of bread all the way across the floor and went out the door. And I was like, only in a public library, Azita.
- [21:44]
Debbie McCullough
You need to, like, start your book. I. I see your book like oak. I can see the whole thing. But you find that in your journaling and all of that, that you're writing about your patrons and the. And what you're experiencing at the library. How does that. Journaling is such a personal thing. But all of these stories are so wonderful. Like, I assume that that book's going to come out pretty soon after you finish your journal.
- [22:09]
Azita Frattarelli
Oh, thank you. I would love for that to happen, actually. That's a life goal is that book. But, yeah, the journaling part. I do all kinds of journaling. I've done it since, I. I think around seven. I think if you go back and really think about it again, that librarian was pretty instrumental in that too, because. Bring It Back Around. Tarantino went back to our first conversation in that school library. They. We had to write. And again, I. I don't remember all of this, but I remember it was this piece of paper that had the D line lines. Do you remember? It was, like, gray. And we had to write a couple words out that she was reading from a book. And I still remember the first word. Was duck. Because I remember she handed me a number two pencil with a Ticonderoga pencil and an eight count box of Crayola crayons, clear as day, I remember. And she said, you know, trace the word duck. So we traced it, and then we could draw a picture of the word, you know, the. The duck and color it. And I just loved it. And there was something about that experience of writing and coloring. And she complimented my writing, which was just tracing at that point, but she complimented it, and I thought, oh, she gave me a little shout out, you know, in this first grade class, and it stayed with me. And to this day, by the way, Ticonderoga is everywhere. Obsessed with Crayolas my whole life. But I think again, it was like one of those core memories where she had complimented the writing and said, you know, great job. Well, I was writing, you know, and I kept writing throughout my life, the journaling. And I still do it quite often. And I moved into art journaling and collaging and all these things. It's something that I'm very passionate about. And interestingly, I've been able to bring that here. And so I've been running journaling classes here. I thought, well, maybe other people want to do junk journaling or art journaling. And now I have what we call it, our core group of junk journalers that now meet every other month, and they want to junk journal with me. And I, you know, I teach them how to make journals out of junk. And, yeah, you literally turn junk into journals. So you sew. I know this is a sidebar, but you take, you know, like, envelopes and stuff from your junk mail and flyers, and you sew them together into signatures, and then you bind them together like a book. But anyway. Yeah, so the writing's always been a very important thing to me. Yeah.
- [24:21]
Debbie McCullough
And definitely next in the.
- [24:23]
Azita Frattarelli
In the lineup, interestingly, to your question, I keep. I have journals of paper everywhere, but I have a. A planner. And then I have one that I sort of jot, you know, to do lists in and stuff. And that's where I write down those little tidbits about the patrons or something that happens with, you know, if we're in a committee and someone says something funny, you know, to remember it, and I. I keep a journal of that.
- [24:46]
Debbie McCullough
Zita, we're coming to the end of our time. And I think we all. We all said a few times before, you know, oh, this will go really fast. And it does. It goes.
- [24:56]
Azita Frattarelli
Really does. Yes.
- [24:57]
Debbie McCullough
But tell us just what in today's world. And in the work that you're doing, though, what gives you hope? What are you most excited about for the future? What's the last part of the story that we can share with our listeners?
- [25:12]
Azita Frattarelli
I feel hopeful about the future because I think people are fantastic and life is great, and I think that, you know, we've heard many times in one way or another that, you know, there's concern for where libraries are going, you know, what will happen with books. And I staunchly believe, even though I'm newish to this profession, that libraries really aren't going anywhere. We may have to shape shift a little bit, you know, and change our direction, but we do that really great. My colleagues are amazing. If Covid didn't prove anything else, it's that librarians can pivot on a dime and meet the needs of their communities without fail and spectacularly know did an amazing job. And I think I'm very hopeful for what all of it brings, what every new day brings to us. You know, there's obviously some concerns. I think we'll always have to struggle with government funding and public funding. I think that's a fight we will always have. I think advocacy will always be something that we have to keep at the forefront, and I think most of us are prepared for that and are ready to dig our heels in and do that. But I'm really just hopeful for a future where librarians get to keep doing what they're doing and feel empowered to keep doing what they're doing. And I think everything's going to be all right. I think it'll be better than all right. I think it's going to be great, and I just look forward to all of it. You know, it feels like a new beginning every day. You know, it's a fresh start. And I know that there are times where things in our field can be a little daunting. The last few years, we've had some. We've had some stuff. But the best thing about it is it hasn't really discouraged a whole lot of us. It makes everyone even more powerful in this profession, even more enthusiastic about fighting this information and getting books to the public. And, you know, it just sort of is the fuel that fires us up, and I love that. So go libraries and go librarians.
- [27:04]
Steve Bowers
We love you, Azita. We'll keep you in libraries as long as you're here.
- [27:09]
Azita Frattarelli
Oh, thank you.
- [27:10]
Steve Bowers
Write your book. We'll send you on your way as long as we get a mention in the book.
- [27:14]
Azita Frattarelli
So, absolutely.
- [27:15]
Debbie McCullough
I don't think we're ever going to let her go.
- [27:18]
Azita Frattarelli
Oh, thank you. I'll stay as long as I haven't overstayed my welcome.
- [27:24]
Debbie McCullough
This was a great interview. We're just so thankful that you were available to talk today and be a part of all of this. So thank you for being with us.
- [27:33]
Azita Frattarelli
Thank you, Debbie. Thank you for having me.
- [27:35]
Debbie McCullough
Thanks to everyone for listening to the February episode of Chapter and Verse Story Time from the Stacks. We hope you'll join us each month for new episodes and be sure to subscribe to our podcast on Apple, Spotify or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts. We also wish to thank our sponsor, Midwest Tape and Hoopla, much appreciation for listening and we'll see you next month when Dylan Geschel, the co op director at the Superior Library Cooperative, and I sit down with our guest, who is Amanda Griggs. She's the cataloger and technical services specialist from the Dickinson County Library in Michigan's Upper Peninsula. Thanks for listening.