Library Leadership in Action: What’s Shaping Michigan Libraries

Summary

Podcast Summary:

Library Leadership in Action: What’s Shaping Michigan Libraries
Chapter & Verse: Storytime from the Stacks | November 18, 2025
Host: Dylan Geschel (A), Interim Executive Director, Michigan Library Association
Guests: Jenny Marr (C), Executive Director, Capital Area District Libraries & MLA Board President
Steve Bowers (B), Executive Director, The Library Network; Past Chair, Library Cooperatives of Michigan

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Episode Overview

This episode brings together two leading voices in Michigan's library landscape—Jenny Marr and Steve Bowers—to discuss the evolving role of libraries, the impact they have on communities, and the challenges and opportunities ahead. The conversation explores the heart of library service, the importance of equitable access, how libraries connect and empower underserved populations, and the ways Michigan’s library ecosystem is future-proofing itself for coming decades.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Guests’ Backgrounds and Roots in Libraries

• Steve Bowers shares his serendipitous entry into librarianship, working across public, academic, K-12, special libraries, and through consortia and cooperatives.
  "I've spent most of my time with consortia... helping them work together." [01:42]
• Jenny Marr reflects on her 22-year public library career, emphasizing community service and her personal journey from a “career change” to library leadership.
  "I've worked at all sizes of libraries, rural up to urban... really enjoyed the working with the public and feeling like community service." [03:30]

The Value and Impact of Libraries

• Libraries see increased use during economic downturns as community members seek free resources and belonging.
  "The harder economic times become the busier libraries get... People get a sense of community when they're feeling isolated." – Jenny [04:58]
• Immediate gratification from helping patrons is deeply fulfilling for staff.
  "You can just see a weight lifted off them as they exit." – Jenny [04:58]
• Libraries play an essential social role connecting people to themselves and others, especially in divisive times.
  "We're playing a big role in helping people connect to themselves and connect to others to see others." – Steve [05:58]

Reaching Underserved and New Audiences

• Meeting people “where they’re at” is increasingly critical:
  • Mobile libraries and partnerships with nonprofits expand reach.
  • Libraries as connectors, not just providers. "We can't be everything to everyone, but we can help connect people with other groups." – Jenny [07:26]
• Representation matters:
  • Library Network’s billboards: “Something for everyone.”
  • Resources and materials must reflect all communities, including marginalized groups. "Hopefully everyone can see themselves in one of those pictures." – Steve [08:30]

Technology, Innovation, and Adaptability

• Technology’s Evolving Role:
  • Digital access (eBooks, streaming, mobile catalogs) continues to level the playing field.
  • "If you get your free library card... you can get to the library in your pocket." – Steve [10:49]
  • Parents appreciate non-screen experiences; libraries offer interactive, engaging non-digital spaces for youth.
• Pandemic-prompted Innovation:
  • Remote services became vital, and many adaptations are now permanent.
  • Libraries are crucial in battling the digital divide, offering WiFi hotspots and public technology access. "When we in an emergency had to. We were able to pare things down... A lot of those things we're going to keep." – Jenny [12:39]

Optimism and Resilience in Michigan Libraries

• Michigan Public Support:
  • State poll shows broad public opposition to censorship and strong belief that libraries should offer “books for everybody.”
    "There's some really loud voices out there... but I felt better knowing that's not a majority of people in Michigan." – Jenny [15:09]
• Statewide Collaboration:
  • Michigan’s “ecosystem” of partners (MLA, cooperatives, campaigns like My Right to Read) works together to defend access and respond to challenges. "That ecosystem of everybody working together... is one of the really optimistic things." – Steve [15:54]

Defending Intellectual Freedom and Civic Engagement

• Libraries as “Line in the Sand”:
  • Standing firm against censorship, fostering civic discussion, and promoting freedom of choice. "We're the line in the sand... It's really important that we hold that line." – Jenny [16:55]
• Values and Humanity:
  • Libraries advocate for the freedom of all individuals and groups to see themselves represented.
    "Celebrating each individual's humanity... is a part of letting everyone know that we all should be valued as part of the community." – Steve [18:11]

Challenges Ahead

• Staff Recruitment and Burnout:
  • Empathy fatigue and turnover, plus the high cost of library science degrees, are concerning.
    "I worry about recruitment... Especially with college being so expensive." – Jenny [20:11]
• Need for Diversity:
  • Broader recruitment and accessible pathways into librarianship are priorities.
• Adaptive Strategies:
  • New services like cooperative “Subshift” (a substitute pool for libraries) and cross-library employment programs are in development. "We have two library schools... to help connect employment from one library to another." – Steve [21:08]

Amplifying Key Areas of Library Work

• Early Literacy:
  • Public libraries’ role in pre-K literacy is foundational but often overlooked. "Those first few years after birth, until they get into the school system, those belong to public libraries." – Jenny [22:31]
• Fiscal Stewardship:
  • Libraries make the most out of limited taxpayer funding, maximizing community impact. "We are a good use of taxpayer dollar... libraries sure get a lot done." – Steve [23:31]

Sustaining Positive Momentum

• Strategic Planning & Visibility:
  • Deliberateness in upholding and communicating values is key. "You need to be deliberate... come up with a strategy... put out there what our beliefs are." – Jenny [24:07]
• Belonging & Inclusion:
  • Fostering spaces where all feel welcome keeps momentum strong. "Continue to be a place of belonging for everybody." – Steve [24:56]

Library Experimentation and the “Library of Things”

• Libraries are experimenting with lending non-traditional items (metal detectors, crafts, fishing poles), surprising and delighting community members. "Our innovation comes from trying to figure out what people have a need before they realize they have it." – Jenny [25:56]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Community Impact:
  "You can just see a weight lifted off them as they exit." — Jenny Marr [04:58]
• On Belonging:
  "There's something to excite everyone... everyone can get excited about something." — Steve Bowers [08:30]
• On Censorship:
  "If we didn't serve every person and every idea, we cease to be public libraries. That's who we are." — Dylan Geschel [19:47]
• On Staff Burnout:
  "We tend to be very empathetic people and you can get empathy fatigue." — Jenny Marr [20:11]
• On Innovation:
  "We're willing to try things. If they don't work, we try something else." — Jenny Marr [25:56]
• On Stewardship:
  "Libraries sure get a lot of stuff done with the dollars that we are steward." — Steve Bowers [23:31]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |--------------------------------------------------------------- |-----------:| | Guest Introductions, Backgrounds | [01:42–04:04] | | The Role and Value of Libraries | [04:36–07:09] | | Reaching the Underserved, Partnerships | [07:26–09:24] | | Technology & Digital Services | [09:44–11:59] | | Adaptability & Pandemic Response | [11:59–14:09] | | Public Support, Poll Results | [15:09–16:41] | | Information Access, Censorship, Intellectual Freedom | [16:41–19:47] | | Workforce Challenges, Recruitment, Diversity | [20:11–22:22] | | Early Literacy, Fiscal Stewardship | [22:31–24:00] | | Strategic Planning, Momentum | [24:07–24:56] | | Library Experimentation & Library of Things | [25:56–26:49] |

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Tone & Style

The conversation is candid, passionate, and hopeful, acknowledging both hardships and the inspirational capacity of libraries to adapt, innovate, and provide for all. The leaders’ perspectives underscore both a commitment to core democratic values and a willingness to experiment boldly in service of the public good.

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For Further Listening

Catch more stories of Michigan library innovation throughout the Chapter & Verse archive, and watch for upcoming episodes in 2026.

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to the Chapter in Verse Storytime from the Stacks, an original podcast series from the Michigan Library association and the Library Cooperatives of Michigan. We would like to give a shout out to our episode sponsor, Midwest Tape and Hoopla. I'm Dylan Geschel, interim Executive Director of the Michigan Library association, where we lead the advancement of all libraries through advocacy, professional development and engagement. And I'm joined today by two special guests. We have Jenny Marr, the Executive Director of Capital Area District Libraries. Jenny is also our current Michigan Library Association Board President and Steve Bowers. Steve is the Executive Director of the Library Network and just finished the term as Chair of the Library Cooperatives of Michigan. Very happy to have you both with us today, Jenny and Steve. This is our 12th episode. It's our last one in 2025, and we are switching things up a bit here compared to the format we've used in past episodes. As we wrap up our final podcast episode this year, I really wanted to hear from you two. As library leaders that have your fingers on the pulse of libraries across the state, whether that's based on your work in your day jobs or as leaders of statewide associations or cooperatives, I'm really looking forward to hearing from you two about what inspires you when it comes to what work in Michigan libraries and what we see on the horizon when it comes to trends in services and programming and really the full range of benefits that we see libraries delivering to their communities across the state. Steve and Jenny, welcome to the podcast. Really nice to have you with us. Why don't we start with having you each tell us a little bit about your background? Steve, do you want to get us started?

[B]

Sure. Morning, Dylan. Thanks for having me again today. I started working in libraries in Michigan as an undergrad student by accident, if you will, and I've been working with libraries in Michigan ever since. I like to keep contact with the whole ecosystem of libraries in Michigan, so I keep tabs with the public libraries, obviously. For my job, I worked with academic libraries in higher ed for 20 years. I work with the K12 school libraries when I get a chance, and special libraries like museums and hospitals and law libraries and of course, the Friends of the Library. Although I've worked in libraries for several years, I've spent most of my time though, with consortia or cooperatives or groups of libraries, helping them work together.

[A]

So you've done it all in terms of the different library types that you've worked with and then a part of what inspired you to pursue a career.

[B]

In libraries, probably collecting and organizing is a problem of mine. So originally I figured why not channel that energy into making gainful employment. When I went to college, I didn't really have a degree in mind and I got by accident, college work site at the library and I decided to stay there. So I'm still in libraries now because I want to work on making sure that everyone has access to materials that represent them and that help them connect to themselves and to others.

[A]

So I have a similar experience, Steve. When I was in undergrad, I was interested in reading and writing and had no idea what I would do when I grew up. But I started working in a public library while I was in school and then it clicked for me so I could do this.

[B]

Yeah, they pulled us in.

[A]

Yep. Jenny, really happy to have you here as well, too. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself?

[C]

Thanks, Dylan. I appreciate you having me on. Yeah. So I've worked in just public libraries. I got my first job in public library about 22 years ago. So I've been a library director for about 13 years. It's my third position or third library I've been a director at. I've worked at all sizes of libraries, rural up to urban, different communities. And I really enjoyed the working with the public and feeling like community service. Yeah, it's been great. I really have enjoyed this because it's been a career change for me to coming to libraries.

[A]

What's your first memory, Jenny, of being in a library?

[C]

My school library. It was really small, but it was right there in the school, so I had access to it every day. And I remember checking out Discovering series I was really into. Trixie Belden was my series I loved when I was a kid, Nancy Drewish thing. But I just remember just really discovering the love of reading. And then from there, when I was able to get transportation over to the public library, I would go. But I think that's why school libraries are so important, because that's what we have the most access to when our kids.

[A]

So thinking about the background that you both have in libraries and how broad that scope is. Right. You're both either working in a library or have worked in a library, but also operating either consortiums or you're in leadership at the statewide association. What's something you've seen in your work recently that made you think this is why libraries really matter or this is how libraries can make a positive impact?

[C]

For me, in a public library, the There's a general saying about libraries. The harder economic times become the busier libraries get. And that's that definitely plays out. We get more and more people as their personal household budgets start to get strained. They rediscover the libraries and they come back in. They need help on things. They're trimming costs where they can. Libraries have a lot of free things. And also just the sense of community people get when they're starting to feel isolated at home. And I think we've seen that since COVID When people have turned more to remote work, they really just want to be around other humans sometimes. And the library really offers that for people to come in. So I just like the difference in when people walk into the library and they're looking stressed and a little bit lost. And by the time we're done helping them, they leave. And you can just see a weight lifted off them as they exit. Being able to see that kind of immediate change in people and know that we helped someone that day, it was very satisfying as, why do I do this job?

[B]

I think the same thing, Jenny. There's a lot of discontent and disconnect in society right now, I think, and that's why I'm still in libraries, because I think we're playing a big role in helping people connect to themselves and connect to others to see others. A lot of people have anger nowadays and they want to aim it towards other groups. And really libraries are here to have materials for everyone and help them find that community that you mentioned and help them see themselves. It's hard to see others if you don't see yourselves. The co ops even worked on a project to help people have conversations with each other by starting by looking at yourself and knowing who you are and then looking for those pieces in other people to help connect with them. And the library and the programming and the resources we have, I think is access to finding ways to connect. I think the libraries and library partners like MLA and the cooperatives are increasingly being called to stand for access to resources when other people want to cut them off. And I think that's a big role that we're playing today and why we're still doing business.

[A]

Getting to see like that immediate gratification of being able to provide that to a patron is probably what I miss most about not working in a library anymore. So appreciate that perspective. Jenny, how are libraries reaching new or underserved people or groups in ways that excite you?

[C]

For us, I think we've really learned the value of meeting people where they're at. The more that we can send out, we have mobile libraries at cattle to reach out into neighborhoods that might not Be close to a branch or. But it's also. Libraries can't be everything to everyone, but we can help connect people with other groups. So we work a lot with nonprofits and other community partners that are doing good work, and we can help elevate their work as well as connect and send people their way. So, just like we can help people find the right book in the library, we can help people find the right organization in the community to get to them. So I think it's important we all work together. And it's even more important now as nonprofits are seeing their funding get cut and their resources getting really strained as they try to serve more and more people go through that. If we don't all kind of work together and pool our resources, then, you know, then we're all gonna have a real hard time with it. I really like being able to work with others who can identify where the needs are and to help us do what we can to meet those needs.

[B]

And when I think of underserved groups, part of which I'm part of the LGBT community as a gay man, our trucks at the library network have billboards on them just to encourage people to go to the library. But one of them says something for everyone, and it has pictures of all kinds of people, and hopefully everyone can see themselves in one of those pictures. And I think that's how libraries are reaching underserved groups. They're having materials that people can find themselves in. Again, back to politics. Some people don't want books that represent everyone, but there's something to excite everyone. Hopefully, at the library, everyone can get excited about something, so they have to see themselves in the materials at the libraries. And I think that's a huge role that keeps people coming to the library and keeps them feeling accepted and belonging at the library.

[A]

Yeah. When we talk about underserved groups, I find myself thinking about how libraries and WAZE are. Part of our mission is to be an equalizer in that work. Like you said, Steve, we're here for everyone, provide materials for every person. What kind of technology or digital services are you most intrigued by in library spaces today?

[C]

I struggled with trying to think of an answer for this one because I find myself less excited about technology I see and more about experiences I see out there. Technology helps us make what we do easier. It makes getting e resources out to people easier. When there is good technology out there, libraries will embrace it. But when I visit other libraries, I get excited about seeing some of the interactive things they have going on. I'm thinking about Clinton McCombs new North Branch library and their youth services area. And they have all these interactive things and their bookends. It's just very visually appealing. But it also invites people in to linger and do things there. And we've had a lot of parents who they are happy when we don't have computers out because they want their kids to have an experience with the books and other things coming in and they're like we have this at home or no, they're like we want them to do something different and get less screen time. Yeah, I'm less excited about seeing some the interactive technology and more about the the interactive non technique things that are at Libra.

[B]

I think accessing libraries on our phones is still amazing to me. Even just to look up what's on the shelf at the library before I go there or to place a request for something to pick up whether it's at my library or it's going to come in for free from another library. And the instant gratification of a streaming movie or audio recording or ebook all offered from the library. And again that's another equalizing factor. Not everybody has a phone, but most people do. So you know, if you get your free library card and then have even if you can't get to the library, you can get to the library in your pocket. So that's still mind blown technology for me in the way that libraries are able to connect to offering services in the online environment.

[A]

I think a lot of that also highlights the adaptability of libraries. You can walk into a library now and use your mobile phone to access the catalog. Libraries pivoting really quickly to offer public Internet access which what seems like a really long time ago now streaming services like you mentioned, how are libraries showing their adaptability or resilience now in this moment?

[B]

Ray and we survived the pandemic by pivoting quickly to really amping up the access to those online services. And I think a lot of libraries found post pandemic people didn't want those online services to go away. That's really been part of our adaptability and resilience for over 20 years now. I've heard why do we need libraries? We've got the Internet, we've got Google. But then people quickly find out not everything you want is free on the Internet. So libraries are still the gatekeepers helping select materials and purchase materials for access because it's not all free on the Internet.

[C]

Yeah, I agree with Steve. The pandemic really gave us a chance to quickly streamline a bunch of obstacles to things that we had said. Not sure if we could do that. When we in an emergency had to. We were able to pare things down real quick and cut through to make sure we were still providing things. And a lot of those things we're going to keep. They were good innovations and they made us rethink how we did a few things. It's always been adaptation. I was thinking as you were talking about how when Kindles first came out and everyone's at the end of libraries, I'm like, no, it's not. You have no idea. Like this is going to be a thing. And I was excited for the new technology. And we see that now people are books on CD are going away because they don't make cars with CD players. It's all audiobooks, which are expensive. And it's something we have to think about with our budget. And I'm glad that people turn to us when they see something new they want. They expect the library to find a way to provide it for them. So I think we've got that ingrained now in a lot of people, people that we will provide it some way somehow. We'll figure it out when they want something because like Steve said, nothing's really free. People think it is, but it's really not. And we provide an important role in trying to keep people from falling behind. We talk all the time about the digital divide and people don't have access to things. That's why we do the wifi hotspots for people and try to still provide technology at the library so people can come in. It's we're important resource for a lot of people who would otherwise fall behind with everything that's moving so quickly forward.

[B]

Yeah, we're adaptable, but we're also traditional. We've got people that still love the print media, the print books again, so something for everyone. Depending on how you want to access your materials, the library is offering those different ways to get there.

[C]

Let's take a quick break to hear more from our episode sponsor.

[D]

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[A]

So as leaders of two different library organizations in Michigan, you both bring a unique statewide perspective to this Discussion we what's given you the most optimism when you look across Michigan's libraries?

[C]

I was really gratified to see the results of the MLA EPIC MRA poll that came out that showed how many people in Michigan really do believe that libraries should have books for everybody and that they were against censorship. There's some really loud voices out there and it's, it can make it seem like that's the prevailing wind when really it's smaller than we expect amount of people, but they're really loud and they make a lot of noise at places and can make some libraries jobs really difficult. But I felt better knowing that's not a majority of people in Michigan that most people really do understand the importance of fighting censorship. So public support makes what we do possible. I wouldn't be able to do this job every day if I didn't think my community appreciated the work that we're doing.

[B]

Yeah, I agree, Jenny, that the overwhelming response of how many people support access to information, access to materials that each individual wants and has the freedom to choose for themselves or parents, freedom to choose for their own children. So that data coupled with really again, that whole ecosystem of everybody working together like through Michigan to read my right to read in the general population of Michigan saying, hey, we think people should have access to resources. We don't want to cut people off and we can each choose what's appropriate for ourselves. We are our own audience and I think everybody working together to say that is one of the really optimistic things as well.

[A]

So we've touched a lot on information access. We touched a little bit on the censorship issue that a lot of libraries are dealing with. How do you see libraries leading the way on those issues when it comes to information access, intellectual freedom and even civic engagement?

[C]

In a lot of ways I feel like we're holding the line like we're the last hold out on some of these things. We're the line in the sand that we're defending on these because things can happen the way the cultural message is, the problems with schools they're having. But I feel like public libraries, because we are better positioned to do so, are able to say that's not how we're going to run things here. And it's really important that we hold that line. It gets hard when we have boards out there that are getting people appointed that have agendas contrary to that. But I feel like that's where we need to galvanize and focus that public support so that communities see what's happening and we shine a light on that. I think that's why my right to read is so important, because they're able to raise that awareness when there are problem spots happening and a way to get that support focused where it needs to be. But the work we're doing is really important, and I think it's important that we talk about it and make it very visible so that we don't wind up with things like quiet censorship or just quietly folding behind it. I think we need to keep these issues front and center so everybody knows they're not alone and that we're all here to support each other and that this is good work that we're doing.

[B]

I think when we're talking about information access and intellectual freedom and civic engagement, libraries still play a core role in basic education, of celebrating each individual's humanity or the humanity of entire groups, because that's a part of letting everyone know that we all should be valued as part of the community. Not everybody wants to value everyone else. And libraries standing on their traditional principles of being for everyone are just a constant reminder of. Yes. That's why people do value us, because we have something for them. We have something for their community in particular. And we are standing on fighting for keeping access to everything for everyone.

[C]

And we're not trying to convince anybody that they have to like every book in the library. We just need them to understand that there's going to be something in here for everybody. And I'm okay if people are look at it selfishly in terms of I want my books that I want to read in there. So that means I have to have other people's books there too. So we're not. It's not a big ask. It's. It's if you want to see your stories, and then you got to let everybody else's stories be in there, too. And there's something for everybody here.

[B]

That's right. There's something, like I said earlier, to excite each person at the library. Other things might not have any interest in, which is fine, but we have the stuff that you like, and we have the stuff that someone else likes. And everybody's good to get what they like for themselves.

[A]

It's who we are. I like the way you phrase this, Stephen. Talking about libraries, celebrating every person or every group. That's why the censorship thing is so threatening to what we do. If we didn't serve every person and every idea, we cease to be public libraries. That's who we are. It's what we're supposed to do. What are the biggest challenges Facing libraries in the next 10 years.

[C]

For me as an employer, I worry about recruiting new staff. We see a lot of burnout happening. Working with the public in challenging times can be physically draining. We tend to be very empathetic people and you can get empathy fatigue. It's draining. And I see turnover happening. And I worry about recruitment down the pipeline of people. Especially with college being so expensive and what it costs to get all the way through a master's degree. And whether or not we can keep trying to convince people that's where they need to be. I hope that our universities really start looking at a whole strata of degrees that could be applicable to public libraries to try to invite more people in. We want to see more diversity in our, in our personnel and people attracted to working in a library. So that's a struggle to continue to recruit people that want to do this work.

[B]

And hopefully Jenny will tackle those employment problems for libraries. Even the co ops are working together to talk about how we can recruit from the schools. Michigan is Luffy. We have two library schools or information schools. The co ops are working on projects to help connect employment from one library to another to help get people full time employment. At our co op, we just started a new service called Subshift which is helping libraries have a whole pool of substitute library workers. I think we can just keep at it. We survived the Internet and in fact we're helping build it and thrive in it. So I think we'll survive. People wanting to work here as well. And again, it's a draw, I think the way library stands on our principles, it's a draw for people to want to work in library. Unfortunately, nobody comes to work in libraries to make big money, but. Or if they do, they quickly find out. They may not happen, but I think long term people are going to be interested in the principles that libraries stand for and they want to connect with themselves and with others as well. And they'll see the library as a place that will enable that.

[A]

If you could amplify one area of work that's being done in libraries so that everyone knew about it, it was on everybody's radar. What would that area be and why?

[C]

Coming from a public library, I would say the work we do in early literacy, a lot of people look at K through 12 education or pre K, but those first few years after birth, until they get into the school system, those kind of belong to public libraries. Those are the years where we're doing story time. We're working with parents and caregivers on how to read to their kids and the importance of language and all those kind of things. And I think those are really core years for development for kids to go through. And so that's really something we've put a lot of resources in. And so I think that's something that people don't realize how much effort we put into those, into early literacy. If you're not involved in libraries and it's recognized statewide Library of Michigan pulls those out in our statewide survey about what work we're doing. So I think it's definitely supported and encouraged through the public library system. But it's key work that needs to happen or else kids start behind and then it's hard to ever catch up again.

[B]

I might have a boring answer for you, Dylan. I think people need to sometimes be reminded we're not just all fun and books. Libraries are a business with different principles than maybe a for profit business. But we are a good use of taxpayer dollar. The state of Michigan, they float just over $1.50 per person in the state budget to libraries, which is not a ton of money. But man, libraries sure get a lot of stuff done. With the dollars that we are steward.

[A]

Over, how can library leaders and library boards keep the positive momentum going?

[C]

I would say that it's important to do strategic planning and have these discussions so that everything we plan is very intentional and positively affirming these kind of values of intellectual freedom. This work doesn't just happen organically. You need to be very deliberate in it and come up with a strategy and do your staff training in order to be there. You don't want to just try to keep your head down and hope nobody gives you any problems. You really need to make a strategy and be ready to go in case any of these issues come to your doorstep. But I think it's important to put out there what our beliefs are, what we're working on, our, our First Amendment, all those things that we are positively affirming for the public so they know where we stand and that they can be ready to go to support us if we have any issues.

[B]

I think libraries can keep up positive momentum by just continuing to be a place of belonging for everybody in the community. If we continue to reflect the positive and inclusive practices of libraries are positive and inclusive principles that libraries have been built on for years. We can keep moving forward by addressing things that come up, being ready to pivot to new ways of being inclusive at the library and continuing to meet the needs of the community, not just bringing them together, filling their information and entertainment needs through the public library and through the educational libraries and through other libraries that organize the access to information for our society.

[A]

We keep doing what we're doing. We live the principles of access and information. Yeah, I love it. Is there anything that y' all wanted to talk about that we didn't yet?

[C]

Libraries are very experimental in some of the services and things that we try to provide. Library of Things is a perfect example of that. That nobody would dream that we would check out things to people like metal detectors and fishing poles and hobbies and crafts and those kind of things. Still, when I talk to people who maybe aren't using the library a lot right now, they're surprised still like they it's a paradigm shift for them that we could be doing things that are non traditional. And I think that's part of the spirit of libraries right now is we're willing to try things. If they don't work, we try something else. But our innovation comes from trying to figure out what people have a need before they realize they have it, and then try to figure out a way to provide it through a service or collection or a program. I think we're always trying to think of new things to try and we're not afraid to fail, so we give it a shot.

[A]

That's why I think about public libraries as the most dynamic government institution on the planet. Because if we're flexible and willing to rise to the occasion, we can serve any community need that we find that needs to be met. Thanks again for joining us today, Jenny and Steve. And thanks to everyone for listening to the November episode of Chapter and Verse Storytime from the Stacks. We also want to thank our episode sponsor, Midwest Tape and Hoopla. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts. And check out our backlog of 2025 episodes as well if you haven't caught up on them. Much appreciation for listening to another episode of Chapter and Verse. Take care and thank you all.