Podcast Summary: Chasing Life – "Pain is in the Brain"

Host: Dr. Sanjay Gupta (CNN Podcasts)
Date: January 2, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode of Chasing Life explores the complex, deeply personal experience of pain – not just as a physical sensation, but as something woven into the very circuits of our brains. Dr. Sanjay Gupta investigates the newest scientific breakthroughs in measuring and controlling pain, highlights patient stories of chronic pain, and examines a range of treatments from brain implants to mindfulness meditation. The episode unpacks how chronic pain is finally being understood as a brain-based phenomenon and presents new hope and practical approaches for those suffering, beyond conventional opioids.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Pain: The Brain's Complex Creation

• Pain is Subjective ([00:00]–[00:44])
  • Pain isn’t just a response to injury; it’s constructed in the brain.
  • Different people experience the same injury with vastly different perceptions of pain.
  • Quote: “It’s why everyone’s pain is so different.” – Narrator ([00:15])
• The Quest to Objectively Measure Pain ([01:24]–[02:28])
  • Dr. Prasad Shivalkar (neurologist, pain doctor) is developing a way to objectively measure pain in the brain using implanted probes.
  • Quote: “One of the holy grails of pain medicine has been coming up with a biomarker for measuring how intense... somebody’s pain is.” – Dr. Shivalkar ([01:38])

2. Ed Mowry: Living with Chronic Pain and Becoming a ‘Cyborg’

• The Impact of Complex Regional Pain Syndrome (CRPS) ([02:45]–[03:55])

  • Ed Mowry describes years of relentless pain following dozens of surgeries and his diagnosis with CRPS.
  • Quote: “Think about the worst burn you’ve ever had… and multiply it by 10 or 20, and then it never, ever stops.” – Ed Mowry ([03:22])

• Brain-Based Pain and Life-Changing Surgery ([04:00]–[08:14])

  • Mowry’s pain originated from his brain – “manufactured pain with no stimulus.” ([04:28])
  • After trying dozens of pain medications with no relief, he tries experimental brain surgery — deep brain stimulation with 140 electrodes, which mapped and modulated his pain circuits.
  • Quote: “You don’t feel pain right now.” – Dr. Shivalkar
    “Yeah, the pain’s gone. Pain’s done.” – Ed Mowry ([06:13])
  • Ed refers to himself as “one of the first cyborgs in the United States. It’s 100% changed my life.” ([07:50])

3. Changing the Paradigm: Alternatives to Opioids

• Opioids as a Last Resort ([09:42]–[11:01])

  • Emergency rooms like Maimonides in Brooklyn are pioneering “opioid optimization” – using non-opioid treatments first, reserving opioids as a last resort.
  • Quote: “Opioids is one of our therapies. But we take a lot of pride here in offering a wide variety of pain modalities.” – Dr. Luke Weber ([11:12])

• Non-Opioid Interventions: Nerve Blocks & New Drugs ([11:57]–[15:22])

  • Nerve blocks using local anesthetic are becoming standard, providing immediate relief and often eliminating the need for opioids.
  • Quote: “We’re starting to do more and more nerve blocks in the ER. It’s quick, easy, and it works for hours and hours.” – Dr. Luke Weber ([12:00])
  • The FDA has just approved a new drug, Suzetragine (Journavax), the first new pain medication in over 25 years. ([14:17])
  • Quote: “It is shocking, actually. It’s the first new pain medication approved in 25 years.” – Dr. Sanjay Gupta ([14:46])
  • Ketamine has also been successfully repurposed for pain management.

4. Mindfulness and Meditation: Training the Brain to Ease Pain

• Personal Stories: Dan Kruger’s Journey ([15:45]–[19:59])

  • Dan Kruger, international motorcycle racer, overcame opioid addiction and now uses ketamine and mindfulness meditation to manage pain.
  • Quote: “As soon as I’m sitting down meditating... I’m in for a good 15 minutes of pain free, pain free.” – Dan Kruger ([19:04])
  • Meditation is guided by Dr. Eric Garland, a psychiatrist and leading mindfulness researcher.

• Science of Mindfulness for Pain ([19:59]–[23:13])

  • Dr. Garland’s research shows mindfulness meditation regularly reduces pain by 25–30%—comparable to the effect of 5 mg of OxyContin.
  • Quote: “We’ve studied the mindfulness meditation practices and find that... they reduce pain by about 25 or 30% in the moment.” – Dr. Eric Garland ([20:53])
  • Sanjay personally tests these techniques and experiences a dramatic drop in pain intensity.
  • Quote: “You went from a 7.4 in pain intensity to a 3.7... that’s incredible.” – Dr. Eric Garland ([22:32])

5. Holistic, Multimodal Pain Management: No One-Size-Fits-All

• “Train Your Brain, Treat the Whole Person” ([23:15]–[24:45])
  • Both high-tech and low-tech approaches recognize that lasting relief comes from combining techniques: treating mood, sleep, physical health, and thinking patterns.
  • Quote: “Treating it with a single drug or an injection... probably isn’t gonna work. We have to address people’s thinking patterns... It really requires kind of a multimodal approach.” – Dr. Prasad Shivalkar ([24:24])
• Regaining Control & Reclaiming Life ([24:45]–[25:58])
  • Patients describe feeling like they “got their life back” by integrating new pain management strategies.
  • Quote: “I realized that for 20 years, I’ve not been who I really am. I felt like I got my life back.” – Ed Mowry ([25:06])

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On Pain’s Subjectivity:
  “Two people with identical injuries on an X-ray could have completely different perceptions of pain.” – Narrator ([00:30])

• On Brain Surgery for Pain:
  “So telling someone you’re going to drill holes in their skull, it should raise concern.” – Dr. Prasad Shivalkar ([02:35])
  “I hung the phone up. Click. No way. Ain’t happening.” – Ed Mowry ([02:45])

• Euphoric Relief from Brain Stimulation:
  “It was like a veil lifting... all at once. And it was euphoric.” – Ed Mowry ([06:31])

• On Meditation & Mindfulness:
  “Mindfulness potentially as good, if not better for some than opioids… you can really do it anywhere.” – Dr. Sanjay Gupta ([21:06])
  “When you generate these peaceful and positive feelings during the practice of mindfulness, that can be analgesic in and of itself.” – Dr. Eric Garland ([22:52])

• Powerful Conclusion:
  “I always like to be happy. Things happen and one has to learn to live with it.” – Patient (possibly narrator’s mother) ([25:47])

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Pain Isn’t Just Physical: It’s in the Brain – [00:00]–[01:24]
• Dr. Prasad Shivalkar on Measuring Pain – [01:24]–[02:28]
• Ed Mowry’s Pain Story and Experimental Surgery – [02:45]–[08:14]
• ER Innovations: Non-Opioid Treatments – [10:24]–[13:35]
• Suzetragine: New Pain Drug Approved – [14:17]–[15:22]
• Ketamine and Mindfulness: Dan Kruger’s Journey – [15:45]–[20:16]
• Mindfulness Reduces Pain as Well as Opioids – [20:44]–[22:32]
• Holistic Pain Management – [24:24]–[25:19]
• Patients Reclaiming Life – [25:19]–[25:58]

Takeaways

• Pain is not just a physical sensation but a dynamic, complex creation of the brain.
• Objective measures of pain in the brain are on the horizon, opening the door for targeted treatments.
• Alternatives to opioids, including nerve blocks, new drugs, ketamine, and mindfulness, are transforming pain care.
• Mindfulness meditation offers surprising, evidence-backed relief comparable to opioids—without the side effects or risks.
• The most sustainable relief comes from a holistic, personalized approach addressing body, mind, and lifestyle.

This episode presents hope and practical solutions to chronic pain sufferers everywhere, blending next-generation science with timeless wisdom, and urging listeners to take an empowered, multifaceted approach to healing.