ANTM Doc Exposes Tyra Banks + Mark Ballas Answers Our Burning Traitors Questions

Summary

Chicks in the Office – ANTM Doc Exposes Tyra Banks + Mark Ballas Answers Our Burning Traitors Questions

Barstool Sports | February 18, 2026

---

Main Theme

In this episode, Ria and Fran tackle some of the biggest headlines in pop culture: an in-depth critique and reaction to the new "America’s Next Top Model" (ANTM) documentary that scrutinizes Tyra Banks and the legacy of the show, a spirited discussion of the upcoming Hannah Montana 20th anniversary special, and a high-energy interview with Mark Ballas—Dancing With the Stars legend and current contestant on Peacock’s "The Traitors." The episode also features lively listener hot takes and pop culture debates, all delivered in the casual, comedic, and unfiltered style that defines Chicks in the Office.

---

Key Discussion Points

1. America’s Next Top Model Documentary Reaction

(Starts ~13:20)

• The ANTM docu-series aired and left the hosts unimpressed and "not stunned" by Tyra Banks’ lack of authentic remorse.

• Ria and Fran highlight Tyra's inability to admit fault and tendency to deflect blame onto others or the realities of the TV industry.

  “I was absolutely not stunned watching this. By the way, does she have an authentic bone in her body?” – Fran (13:27)

• Tyra’s on-camera demeanor and responses felt rehearsed, with moments where she seemed detached from past controversies.

• Ken Mok, the show’s producer, similarly failed to convincingly accept responsibility, only owning up to one specific misstep.

• The hosts were especially disturbed by the handling of Shandy’s story—her trauma was not protected and was instead made into sensational content for both ANTM and Tyra’s talk show.

  “You were watching a girl who was clearly obliterated be taken advantage of in her extremely drunk state…and what you should have done was, ‘Hey, let’s send these guys home.’” – Fran (16:44)

• Ongoing issues like racially insensitive photo shoots and the lack of true industry mentorship for contestants were dissected.

• The fallout with former judges and mentors (Ms. J, Jay Manuel, Nigel Barker) was discussed, including Tyra’s refusal to directly address past conflicts and lack of supportive follow-up.

• Reactions from former contestants, notably Tiffany’s harsh Instagram post, were shared to underscore the ongoing hurt and estrangement from Tyra.

  “Let’s keep it cute. You are one lying ass, tight ass bitch. You know how you treated me the whole time off and on camera...” – Fran, quoting Tiffany (23:14)

Notable Timestamps:

• 13:20: ANTM Documentary begins
• 16:40: Discussion of Shandy’s storyline and trauma
• 23:14: Tiffany’s viral Instagram response to Tyra

---

2. Hannah Montana 20th Anniversary Special Announcement

(33:50)

• Disney to release a Hannah Montana special hosted by Alex Cooper, featuring a sit-down interview with Miley Cyrus.

• The hosts question the choice of Cooper as interviewer but are excited for Miley’s return, nostalgic set reconstructions, and tease of musical performances.

  “I just don't get where the Alex Cooper comes into this…I am very excited for a Hannah Montana special.” – Fran (34:32)

• Hopeful speculation about cast reunions and potentially more events, like a one-night concert.

• Miley’s gratitude and pride in the show’s impact is shared via her own statement.

  “Hannah Montana will always be a part of who I am...This haniversary is my way of celebrating and thanking the fans who stood by me for 20 years.” – Miley, quoted by Rhea (38:55)

Notable Timestamps:

• 33:50: Announcement details
• 38:55: Miley’s statement

---

3. Listener Popcorner: Hot Takes and Opinions

(41:15) A selection of listener voicemails and opinions spark mini-debates:

• Traitors "Breakfast Order" Theory – Is the breakfast entrance order manipulated to give away who’s been murdered? Noah and the group debate whether editing or gameplay explains the suspense, agreeing it’s more about TV suspense than actual clues.

  “I think it's just suspense build for us to be like, who did they murder?” – Fran (44:24)

• Chris Harrison’s New Dating Show – The hosts react to Harrison’s comeback as host of a “traditional marriage”-themed dating show, unimpressed and somewhat put off by the regressive language.

  “I’m not fully into that. I don’t really know what kind of different vibe this is gonna be…” – Rhea (48:27)

• TV Series vs. Movie Book Adaptations – Callers and hosts agree that more books should become TV series for richer storytelling (examples include "The Housemaid," "Seven Husbands").

  “I think that any book can be made into a TV show. And I think when it gets made into a movie, you gotta cut shit out.” – Fran (51:14)

• Impact of Offscreen Relationships on Viewing – Fans say it’s hard to enjoy shows when they know the cast doesn’t get along, and the hosts agree: ‘We know too much now’ due to press/social media making friction impossible to ignore.

---

4. Interview: Mark Ballas on "The Traitors"

(62:34)
A deep-dive interview with Mark Ballas covers his time as a "faithful" on The Traitors, reality TV strategy, and behind-the-scenes secrets.

Major Insights:

• The game is far more chaotic and confusing in real-time than viewers realize; paranoia rules all.

  “You really. You don't know your ass from your elbow in there.” – Mark Ballas (63:51)

• Ballas reveals he kept extensive notes and journaled to track alliances—none of which viewers see.
• He discusses gameplay dynamics, including alliances, betrayals, and specific events at the roundtable.
• Analysis of key players (Rob, Johnny, Tara, etc.) and why some trader moves slipped under the radar.
• Mark weighs in on the controversy over traitor recruitment and strategic missed opportunities.
• Fun off-camera moments, like Skittles paranoia and alliance drinks, demonstrating how deeply suspicion runs.
• Mark praises the immersive reality of filming and teases that the reunion was more Real Housewives than strategy breakdown.

  “I quickly realized…we’re not talking about the game. So I just kind of sat back.” – Mark (100:36)

• He also talks about his future on Dancing with the Stars, injury management, and the joy of new fan bases.

Memorable Quotes:

• “If you thought someone was a traitor, stay in their good graces…as soon as you get a sniff, be like, it’s them—it’s over for you.” – Mark (65:49)
• “You cannot go into this game and not trust anyone…At some point you have to push your chips in on somebody…then just pray to God that your compass has pointed you in the right direction.” – Mark (83:16)
• “The faithfuls kind of have to eat each other alive to get there…It’s not just traitors vs. faithfuls.” – Mark (95:55)

Notable Timestamps:

• 62:34: Start of interview with Mark Ballas
• 65:49: Traitor strategy and trust
• 76:14: On alliances and trust with other celebrities
• 91:34: On Maura’s editing vs. her real in-castle presence
• 95:29: ANTM-style “banishment” of Michael Rappaport
• 97:12: On losing Rob Cesternino (Survivor legend)
• 98:53: Skittles poisoning paranoia

---

Noteworthy Quotes

• Fran on Tyra Banks:
  “I was absolutely not stunned watching this...Does she have an authentic bone in her body?” (13:27)

• Fran (on the Shandy incident):
  “You were watching a girl who was clearly obliterated be taken advantage of in her extremely drunk state—and what you should have done was, ‘Hey, let’s send these guys home.’” (16:44)

• Listener Hot Take:
  “There is no way I am the only one who notices that the faithfuls who come into breakfast last are always the ones the traitors are debating whether to kill…” (41:15)

• Mark Ballas, on the paranoia in The Traitors:
  “You really. You don't know your ass from your elbow in there.” (63:51)

• Mark Ballas, on trusting in the game:
  “You have to pick your people, and just pray to God that your inner compass has pointed you in the right direction.” (83:16)

---

Fun/Memorable Moments

• Fran and Rhea riff on the inane details of Olympic merch and sweater season (02:00 & on), setting up their usual blend of pop culture seriousness with day-to-day banter.
• Frank discussion about sneezing and farting etiquette in public vs. private (09:05), replete with jokes and relatable stories.
• Lively speculation and daydreams about Miley putting on the Hannah wig again (39:48).
• Mark Ballas’ description of cast paranoia over Skittles and drinks, and alliance trust games involving even the smallest acts (98:53).

---

Structured Timestamps

• 13:20 – ANTM doc user reactions begin
• 16:40 – Shandy storyline and critique
• 23:14 – Tiffany’s Instagram takedown
• 33:50 – Hannah Montana 20th Anniversary Special deep dive
• 38:55 – Miley’s statement to fans
• 41:15 – Listener Popcorner: traitors’ breakfast, Chris Harrison’s dating show, book adaptations
• 62:34 – Mark Ballas interview kicks off (Traitors deep dive)
• 65:49 – Traitor gameplay strategies
• 76:14 – Celebrity alliances scrutiny
• 91:34 – Maura’s edit vs. real presence
• 95:29 – Rappaport banishment and behind-the-scenes banter
• 98:53 – Skittles poisoning paranoia
• 100:36 – Reunion taping drama

---

Concluding Thoughts

This episode stands as a multifaceted pop culture catch-up—biting and honest in its takedown of ANTM's legacy, excitedly nostalgic about Hannah Montana, and loaded with insider reality competition wisdom from Mark Ballas. The show balances humor, critical analysis, and a love of the hottest cultural moments, offering plenty of entertainment even for those who haven’t watched the referenced doc, shows, or seasons.

---

For listeners looking for…

• ANTM doc breakdown: 13:20–33:00
• Hannah Montana news: 33:50–40:12
• Traitors/Mark Ballas interview: 62:34–105:10
• Hot take pop culture debates: 41:15–61:40

Transcript

[Rhea]

Hey, Chicks in the Office listeners. You can find every episode on Apple podcasts, Spotify or YouTube prime members can listen ad free on Amazon Music.

[Mark Vallis]

Out on the course, they're the PGA Tour's best players, but in the arena, they're prime time. And season two of TGL, presented by SoFi, is back. With lights, cameras, action. We're talking big moments, big personalities, big names in the stands, all on the big screen. Big time matchups with shot clocks, Hammer drops timeouts, overtime and playoffs. It's city versus city, squad versus squad. This sport just hits different under the lights. It's TGL, presented by SoFi. Keep up.

[Fran]

It's golf.

[Mark Vallis]

Tune in to every match only on espn.

[Rhea]

What's up, everyone?

[Fran]

It's Chicks in the Office with Rhea and Fran giving you that Friday energy on a Wednesday. Happy Wednesday, everybody. We have a great episode that we're gonna get into. We have a fantastic interview, Lots of fun today. But first we need to talk about the thing that is keeping everyone's lives organized right now, and that is Microsoft 365 Copilot.

[Rhea]

It sure is. Because the world moves fast. Your workday moves even faster. Pitching products, drafting reports, analyzing data. Microsoft 365 Copilot is your AI assistant for work built into Word, Excel, PowerPoint, and other Microsoft 365 apps that you use, helping you quickly write and analyze, create and summarize so you can cut through all that clutter and clear the path to your best work. All that little mundane, annoying stuff you have to do, going through all your emails, reading every day like it's just this helps cut through all the clutter, which is great.

[Fran]

And you can do all of that and learn [e-mail] M365 copilot how are we feeling, everybody? You're like a walking billboard for all big sporting events. Last week you had the super bowl hat. I know. Olympic. Now we got all the Olympic sweaters coming up.

[Rhea]

Loves sports.

[Fran]

Yeah, I heart sports.

[Rhea]

I heart sports.

[Fran]

On your forehead.

[Rhea]

And I love the Olympics.

[Fran]

Yes.

[Rhea]

Well, I told you guys. I warned everybody that I did purchase multiple sweaters.

[Fran]

Yes.

[Rhea]

I had the quarter zip that I've been wearing. And this, this is the first time I've actually worn the official Olympic sweater out.

[Fran]

I like it a lot.

[Rhea]

So had to pull this out because we got the start of the lady ladies figure skating today, which I'm excited to watch the, you know, their short programs and the women's hockey's playing the gold medal and match this week as well. So, you know, I'm feeling like I had to. You gotta pull the sweater out.

[Fran]

Yeah. Love it.

[Rhea]

There's only so many. There's only so many weeks you can.

[Fran]

Wear the merch because summer is also around the corner.

[Rhea]

Yeah.

[Fran]

And then it'll be.

[Rhea]

But you know what's nice is this doesn't say, like, Winter Olympics, you know, so it's like, granted, yes, it's a sweater, so I wouldn't really be wearing it as much in the summer, but.

[Fran]

It could be cute. By a fire.

[Rhea]

Exactly. Like a. Like a chilly. A chilly summer night outside. Fire pit.

[Fran]

You got shorts on.

[Rhea]

Shorts on. I got the sweater wrapped around my shoulders. Just maybe toasted some marshmallows. Just watch gymnastics happen, you know?

[Fran]

So preppy.

[Rhea]

Yes, Extremely preppy. Well, let's Ralph Lauren.

[Fran]

That's true.

[Rhea]

It's hard to escape that.

[Fran]

That is true, honey.

[Rhea]

For that. For that brand. But, yeah, other than that, doing great.

[Fran]

You know, I was real Ms. Chatty before this podcast started. And you were like, come on, let's record. Stop talking.

[Rhea]

Well, just, I mean, a little behind the scenes of how, you know, the magic is made. But we always kind of set a time for recording. We never start at the time we actually say we're gonna start. No, always is way later. But sometimes there is a time when it's like, oh, I actually have something to do after recording. So all the fun. Ha ha. Talk before. If it goes on too long, then we have to tack it on at the end.

[Fran]

Right.

[Rhea]

And imagine we don't finish the episode, then I gotta go do the dozen, and then we have to come back here.

[Fran]

Yeah, no, thank you. But the thing is, I was just giving everyone a free show, and that's why I said. I was like, oh, you're gonna miss out on this comedy gold right now. And I wanna roll. You know, you're gonna have a.

[Rhea]

When you guys start crying, when we.

[Fran]

Start riffing, it'.

[Rhea]

Start going.

[Fran]

You want to come on. Riya rants. Tonight we can continue the magic.

[Rhea]

You should.

[Fran]

The people are always asking for you. But I'm like, you know what, guys? He's busy. He's busy.

[Noah]

You want to overexposure.

[Rhea]

You know, it's just like that dm. I got that. I hope either you or Noah get on.

[Fran]

Which pissed me off, because I was like, what about me? The girl who loves to entertain.

[Rhea]

Sorry, they'd rather see Noah.

[Fran]

Yeah. I'm like, I love to dance, I love to sing, I love to entertain. But no, let's get Noah on Dancing with the Stars. That shit pissed me off. I was like, are you kidding me?

[Rhea]

I was literally dying. I have to read this out loud.

[Fran]

No, you were like, if you or Noah. I'm like, I'm not even a part of the show anymore. Fuck me. I guess, like, fuck.

[Rhea]

Whatever.

[Fran]

Shit.

[Rhea]

Noah, if you were on Dancing with the Stars, who would you want to be your partner?

[Mark Vallis]

Hmm.

[Rhea]

Since you're such an avid fan now.

[Noah]

Probably Whitney, you know.

[Mark Vallis]

Good.

[Fran]

Good choice.

[Rhea]

That is a good choice.

[Noah]

Yeah.

[Rhea]

I could see you being paired with Whitney.

[Noah]

Yeah, I think so. I mean, any of them would be great, but I think Emma seems fun.

[Rhea]

Yeah, Emma's great.

[Noah]

And maybe, like, because she has experience with a not so great dancer.

[Fran]

Yeah.

[Rhea]

You're like, if I'm following Andy, I'm in a good place.

[Noah]

Yeah. Because I don't know if I could. I don't know if I have Robert in me.

[Fran]

You know, I say Pasha usually, but, like, any of them.

[Noah]

Didn't you say Mark at one point?

[Fran]

I would do Mark. I would do Val.

[Rhea]

I mean, really, it's really. You can't go wrong.

[Fran]

Alan, Brandon, Ezra. Like, literally anybody.

[Rhea]

Yeah, we just. We just joke. Just anybody but club.

[Fran]

Yeah. No. Yeah. And all of them have their own special, unique qualities about them that make them great. So. Yep. Really? Anybody.

[Rhea]

And Mark Ballas is on our episode today.

[Fran]

Yes, Mark is on our episode today. And we talked all about traders, which is so fun because we could talk about traders for hours. Hours and hours. Hours. You know what pissed me off this morning as I was walking into work?

[Rhea]

You really hitting. You're really hitting the piss.

[Fran]

Sorry.

[Rhea]

That really pissed me off.

[Fran]

I'm in, like, a. I'm in a mode right now where I feel like I'm entertaining everybody.

[Rhea]

The words are coming out sharp.

[Fran]

They're coming out strong sharp. This person we were. I was cross. I was on a crosswalk, walking across the street, passing someone, and they just sneezed. Just out in the open, like, achoo. And like. No. Yeah. Excuse you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When you're in the outside, it's not a free for all to just sneeze any which way you want, go into your elbow. And now I'm sniffling a little bit.

[Rhea]

You think that he got you. It was a direct hit.

[Fran]

I think I got directly hit.

[Noah]

You know what you do? I have to. You have to hold your breath when that happens until they're, like, out of the.

[Fran]

I didn't even know. It just happened so fast, you know? And I just. I just. Was.

[Rhea]

How far away was he Close Close.

[Fran]

Too close. I was disgusted. I'm like, well, who. What kind of barn animal are you to be just doing that? Like. Like publicly like that?

[Noah]

That's my.

[Fran]

And also, like, in a suit as well. No, but it's just, you're. You're a dressed up man going to work.

[Rhea]

I think other people. If you're around other people. Absolutely.

[Fran]

I'm never sneezing openly.

[Noah]

Like, if you're alone in your apartment, I think I still.

[Rhea]

I am all. When I walk Olive, and there's nobody around me, I'm sneezing.

[Fran]

Just open.

[Rhea]

Yeah. There's nobody near me. Who cares.

[Fran]

Is that a reflex to go into your arm? No. Oh, wow.

[Rhea]

Walking the dog, too. I got one. I'm like, oh, no.

[Fran]

The more you know.

[Mark Vallis]

No.

[Rhea]

If there's somebody walking past me or someone close by. Absolutely. Then I will. But if I'm on the sidewalk and I have a. I have a wide radius around me of knowing this out in the open.

[Fran]

Ah. Choo. Yeah. Oh, my God. I'm stunned. I'm absolutely stunned. You do that when you sneeze as.

[Rhea]

Much as I do. You guys. You start to give up after a little while. Like, it's like, I sneeze so, so much. It's just. It's exhausting.

[Fran]

I. I'm sorry. I'm. I'm not to be judgmental, but I am.

[Noah]

Like, I'll go like. Like, if I'm just by myself and.

[Rhea]

I don't feel in your shoulder, we're.

[Noah]

Just, like, toward the ground.

[Fran]

It seems like you guys are just shimmying it out.

[Rhea]

I don't know what to tell you. If there's nobody close by, I don't care about sneezing into, you know, where's.

[Fran]

Oof. No, just. I think it's just a reflex thing. Even at home. Like, I'm just not just like.

[Rhea]

Well, at home, I'm not sneezing like crazy. It's more if I'm outside and there's nobody around me.

[Noah]

Yeah, you're home alone. Like, farting. Same thing. Like.

[Rhea]

The way he paused before saying farting. The way when you're, like, farting.

[Fran]

Excuse me, Are you asking me about my farts right now?

[Noah]

I'm saying, like. Cause obviously you're not gonna do it in public, but if you're home, you don't hold it in, like, alone.

[Fran]

No, but.

[Rhea]

No, never.

[Fran]

Farting is different than sneezing.

[Noah]

It is, but it's the same idea of, like, you don't act the same way when you're alone.

[Rhea]

Yeah, but you're covering your mouth when you're around other people. When you're sneezing, it's like, yeah, but. Yeah, but your fart's not gonna get anybody sick.

[Fran]

Yeah. I mean, unless you fart on their face and give them pink eye.

[Mark Vallis]

The.

[Rhea]

Only person you're hurting is yourself. When you're holding in the fart.

[Fran]

Yeah. You're giving people a stomach ache.

[Rhea]

Yeah. You know, run out of fart because you're home alone. Like, go for it.

[Mark Vallis]

Nobody.

[Fran]

Nobody. I'm not covering my asshole with my hands to cover my fart.

[Rhea]

Or holding it in, giving yourself a tummy ache.

[Fran]

You're walking on the street, you're like.

[Rhea]

Yeah, maybe you're holding it in when you're around other people because you don't want to fart next to them.

[Fran]

Exactly.

[Mark Vallis]

Yeah.

[Fran]

It's different than. It's different.

[Rhea]

Yeah.

[Mark Vallis]

Yes.

[Fran]

Oh, shit. Wow. Oh, that made me laugh hard. Anyways. Anyways, you just gotta walk.

[Rhea]

You know, walk a little. When you sneeze as much as I.

[Fran]

Sneeze, you gotta figure that out.

[Rhea]

I know, but it's always. It's the worst for me in the mornings.

[Fran]

Yeah.

[Rhea]

So, like, I get up right away and go and take Olive out. And that's the time when I'm like, my eyes are watering, my nose is running. Cause I gotta get.

[Fran]

It's.

[Rhea]

It's like when I wake up is my allergies are always so bad, so.

[Fran]

I could pretty much make an excuse for anything you do.

[Rhea]

I appreciate that.

[Fran]

It's like, if somebody else were to tell me, I would be like, ugh. And I'm like, you know what you do?

[Rhea]

You're sneezing all over people.

[Fran]

It's just.

[Rhea]

I'm like, fine if I'm around other people.

[Fran]

Yeah.

[Rhea]

I'm absolutely not sneezing willy nilly.

[Fran]

Yeah. Well, definitely don't be farting either.

[Rhea]

No, don't.

[Fran]

I literally need a clip of Noah just sitting back, pausing.

[Rhea]

Yeah. What about, like, farting?

[Noah]

That's another one where you'll be like, clip that. And I'll be like. I feel like, out of context. That might not be.

[Fran]

No, but it's funny. Yeah, it's funny. Moving on tours right around the corner. So make sure you guys are getting your tickets. We'll be announcing guests very, very soon, and we can't wait to see you. Gu. There. So tickets are on sale now. We are headed to Charlotte, Seattle, San Diego, Dallas, Boston, and Minneapolis. And we want to see your beautiful faces there. So. And don't forget Your signs. If you're coming to a show, make sure you bring a sign.

[Mark Vallis]

Can't wait.

[Fran]

Can't wait to see those and all right, let's get into the rest of today's episode. We're going to be talking about the America's Next Top Model documentary that premiered Monday night.

[Rhea]

A lot of thoughts.

[Fran]

Hannah Montana 20th anniversary special. We also have a great interview with Mark Ballast talking all about traders, lots of traders questions and we have the popcorner. So let's get into the topics. The Game Time app gives fans the advantage with constant innovation. It's how you unlock amazing tickets and experiences in just a few taps. So simple to use. The Game Time guarantee means you get 100% authentic tickets on time at the best price. No surprises. Fees are included in the price you see. And what you see is what you pay, period. We just talked about Hilary Duff doing a worldwide tour. She's going to be at MSG and I am going to be taking a look at those tickets. So take the guesswork out of buying tickets to every type of event with Game time. Download the Gametime app, create an account and use code Chicks for $20 off your first purchase terms. Apply again, create an account and redeem code CHI CKS for $20 off. Download the Gametime app today. America's Next Top Model documentary three part series premiered on Monday.

[Rhea]

Look, we took away one thing from watching this and I was really not that sorry.

[Fran]

I was absolutely not stunned watching this. By the way, does she have an authentic bone in her body?

[Rhea]

Like, I don't know.

[Fran]

I felt like she was really not sorry. And even when things were explained to her.

[Rhea]

Yeah, I'm like, why? It seemed like she almost had a character on the whole time too. Does that make sense? She was like looking in the camera, being like, and she's model smile like this.

[Fran]

Like she was hosting. It just didn't feel real.

[Rhea]

Even the emotional stuff with the other people on the show. Like, she was like, and I. And I after they were all fired. And she was like. And I cried myself to sleep that night.

[Fran]

I was like, I don't believe you.

[Rhea]

I don't believe you either. I. I mean, look, there's one side of me that's like, okay, I guess good for her. She's standing by clearly how she feels about it. But at the same time, it's like, it blows my mind that she can't be honest and vulnerable and admit that they made mistakes. Because it's like acknowledging that there were mistakes. But everything was like a but, but, but. This is how reality TV worked.

[Fran]

And.

[Rhea]

But I wasn't in production, but I didn't know the cameras were still going. But this is what the audience wanted.

[Fran]

It was a blame game for everybody.

[Rhea]

It was.

[Fran]

Everybody was blaming somebody else for something, and I just didn't understand why. I couldn't feel like she was genuinely sorry about literally any anything. And Ken. Yeah, he was definitely not sorry about anything either. Yeah. And I just. I was. I was sort of blown away while. By watching it, because. Yeah, no part of me was watching it going, oh, wow. They, you know, they really know that they mess sometimes.

[Rhea]

Right. What was the one shoot that Ken was like, yeah, that was wrong.

[Fran]

The, like, the violence.

[Rhea]

The violence one.

[Fran]

But that was the only one that he was like.

[Rhea]

He was like, yeah, that one was. I'll hand up that one was a mistake.

[Fran]

Oh, not all the other ones that were mentioned.

[Rhea]

It's crazy. And what's crazy is they really kind of doubled down on so much. Like, I know people always talk about the, like, race swapping shoot, and then it's like, oh, and then they did it again nine cycles later, which is like a lot of seasons later to do it again. And with the stuff with Shandy, that is so insane and heartbreaking and crazy. The fact that. The fact that she went on Tyra's talk show and Tyra played the footage that she clearly didn't want to watch for everyone else to watch again, like, at that point later, like years later, is mind blowing to me to not think like, oh, we should maybe not play this on TV again.

[Fran]

The Shandy stuff was so insane to me because for some reason, when they were all talking about what happened, it was almost like they still couldn't wrap their head around what they did wrong. And they just kept saying, well, you know, it's a show and we film everything.

[Mark Vallis]

Right.

[Fran]

That's not the issue. The issue is that you were watching a girl who was clearly obliterated be taken advantage of in her extremely drunk state.

[Rhea]

Yeah.

[Fran]

And what you should have done was, hey, let's send these guys home. She's clearly not in the right state of mind right now to be making these decisions. That's where you fucked up.

[Rhea]

Yeah.

[Fran]

They kept just trying to excuse them filming it all. It's like, no, the problem is that.

[Rhea]

Nobody, nobody, nobody stop this. Nobody stops it. And on top of that, it's like they then watched it back and just said, oh, this, we can put this on tv.

[Fran]

And.

[Rhea]

And they.

[Fran]

They doubled down on it. It was like they didn't Stop it.

[Rhea]

And then they were like, there was more that we didn't air.

[Fran]

Yeah. Acting like. No, acting like that.

[Rhea]

They aired, like, the. The good stuff, right?

[Fran]

They were acting like they were the good guys by being like, there was more. We show. Yeah. Excuse me. That's horrible. You are now admitting that even more happened with this poor girl that you did not stop. You filmed and broadcasted on television. And it's like. And then it broke that whole. It just broke my heart because I'm like, you know, this young girl, she thinks that this was her fault. Her boyfriend. She's then forced to call her boyfriend on camera. And at no point does anyone step in to be like, shandy, this wasn't your fault. Like, you know, and. And that broke my heart because it was. Yeah.

[Rhea]

Like, the girl talk with. With Tyra being, like, talking about cheating, and it was just like, did you cheat? Like, it's like, I don't know. I. That just really. And I know that people have been having these conversations about Tyra and this show for a long time, but really seeing it all happen. And then almost. There was almost instances where it seemed like Tyra, in the interviews, couldn't even remember what they were referring to, which I think is even worse. Cause it's like, oh, you're living in your la la land of like, I didn't do anything wrong. You don't even.

[Fran]

You're.

[Rhea]

You clearly. It's clearly not sitting on your mind. Like, it's clearly not in the back of your head. Like, oh, man. Like, that was a mistake when we did that. She's like, remind me again, like, what that was. It's like, oh, you don't even fucking remember.

[Fran]

Yeah, it was. It was wild. I was watching the whole time, just kind of. First of all, you know, the fact that we grew up watching this show, and I'm kind of looking back on, like, what I watched, and I'm like, ugh. You know, like, I'm just like you. As a lot of young women did, watching this show, seeing what was broadcasted, that goes into your brain and you're like, a lot of. It was disgusting.

[Rhea]

I know.

[Fran]

A lot of disappointment.

[Rhea]

Yeah. And it seemed like Tyra maybe, like, it seemed like Tyra went into it with the right intentions of wanting to sort of disrupt the industry and having these conversations. But then the show had such a shift. Like, it wasn't in favor of these girls. They weren't helping these girls. It was like, well, now where do these girls fit in the industry? And it wasn't like, how do we get them to break into this industry and disrupt the industry? It's, oh, no. How do we get them to fit in to this already fucked up industry? So in Tyra's mind, she's like, well, I'm just, you know, I'm trying to give. I'm trying to help them. I'm helping them, I'm giving them advice that if they want a long career, they gotta change this, this, this and this so that they can fit into the industry. And instead of like embracing and loving what they have and being like, we're gonna get you through these doors.

[Fran]

Yeah.

[Rhea]

And you're gonna, you're gonna be a disruptor. It was like, no, actually, let's change your teeth, let's change this, let's change your hair, let's change all these things so that you can fit the mold of what these agents want. And it really does feel like Tyra doubles down on that too. Where it's like, I knew that agents weren't gonna wanna cat, like, they weren't gonna wanna sign her. They weren't gonna. She wasn't gonna get these kinds of big, big deals.

[Fran]

Right.

[Rhea]

With that look.

[Fran]

One of the journalists even said, like, watching it with adult eyes, which was kind of how I felt watching this documentary. Was that, like, when I watched the show, I was a kid.

[Rhea]

Yeah.

[Fran]

And now I'm watching it as an adult and I'm just like, oh, you know, it just leaves this bad taste in your mouth. And seeing the way they picked apart all these women. And honestly, like, Tyra can say, you know, I did this show to make it, you know, try to make a change. She wanted a hit show.

[Rhea]

Yeah.

[Fran]

You know what I mean? She wanted to make a hit television show. And I think she used the guise of, oh, I wanna break molds in the industry.

[Rhea]

And once they started to realize that they was like, oh, what's good tv, what's not, then they were just like.

[Fran]

We'Re just trying to make an entertaining show because they knew the problems that these women were gonna run into. And Danielle spoke and she said that Tyra called her 15 years later to be like, I knew that, you know, you were being doors were being shut on you. And like, I didn't do anything to help it.

[Rhea]

Yeah.

[Fran]

And that. So. And she's like, how fucked up is that? Like, you knew. Yeah. And you didn't do anything to help me.

[Rhea]

Doesn't really seem like she did much to help anybody afterwards. And it's. It did. And they sort of touch on this in the documentary of like, the show became so huge that the storylines of the show really started to take over more than, you know, who is the best model and those kinds of things. Like talking about maybe not using the best picture from some of the shoots to be used in like the eliminations because, oh, they know that this girl needs to make it to the next week over another girl and sort of manipulating it in that way. But it really seemed like none of the girls got any help doing anything after. After the shows or any sort of good advice or mentorship or anything to help them actually break into the. Into the modeling world. You know, they touched on the. On the Tiffany moment, which is the obviously big viral moment that everybody refer. We were rooting for you.

[Fran]

I've never yelled at a girl like this in my life.

[Rhea]

Yeah, exactly. Which we all know. So clearly. But she, I want to say she. I saw that she posted on Instagram.

[Mark Vallis]

And.

[Rhea]

Basically just like said that all the shit that like, Tyra was saying, she doesn't really believe she'd said that. Tyra had said a lot more. And the caption she wrote, hold up, Tyra Banks, let's keep it cute. You are one lying ass, tight ass bitch. You know how you treated me the whole time off and on camera? You was a bully. You treated me like and said the nastiest things about me and my son. This is not how the argument went. But y' all edited it to make it look like you cared. It's just a fuck the shade room, fuck you weird ass fans, and fuck you, Tyra Banks. I bet you won't sit down with me face to face and talk about it. Also, fuck my family too. I roll emojis. Y' all don't ever defend me. I got more money in helping more people than all, than all or many of the top models. But that's the update. Y' all give damn shame. And she goes just like, damn, it's been over 20 years, all these things. You still like, whatever.

[Fran]

Yeah, I tell you about it.

[Rhea]

But there's no love lost for a lot of these girls.

[Fran]

And Ty, I don't think that, like, I don't know what Tyra thought was gonna come from her being in this documentary is if she thought that she did a good job explaining herself or, you know, clearing her name or whatever it was. But to me, it did quite the opposite.

[Rhea]

I think it did the opposite too. I think it actually probably hurt her more than helped her because there's also so many more moments. And it felt like everybody Else was really open about what was going on as far as, like, Ms. J and J, Manuel and Nigel, like, all talking about their experiences and Jay talking about his relationship with Tyra and that kind of exploding and him wanting to leave the show and the tension and all that there. And they really. They didn't speak. She emailed. I'm so disappointed. Was the only thing he heard back from her. And then when she was asked about it, she was like, oh, I don't really wanna talk about. Like, I should call him. It's like, that's not. You're filming a documentary. That's not the answer. That actually makes you look worse, I think.

[Fran]

Mm. And I don't know if she called him, but I would.

[Rhea]

My guess would be no.

[Fran]

And then, you know, Jay talking about how she wouldn't talk to him off camera once he said he was gonna leave and then would only, like, play on camera. I don't know.

[Rhea]

It all got crazy. Ms. J had a stroke and so sad. I. I don't think I realized that.

[Fran]

Yeah.

[Rhea]

Just such an icon was in a coma for weeks. Yeah, Five weeks, I think they said. And you also. Did Tyra reach out?

[Listener]

No.

[Rhea]

They clearly haven't had any of these conversations, but when you see the three of them all together, there's clearly a lot of love still there within the three of them. Not so much Tyra.

[Fran]

Yeah.

[Rhea]

And I think it was telling, too, when they were talking about how when they were on the street and they were recognized and like, they're like, oh, that's Tara. Because those are the. You know, they're freaking about the. Freaking out about the J's and being like, that didn't sit right with Tyra. Like, yeah, no shit.

[Fran]

Yeah, I could tell.

[Rhea]

And also, it's. It's. It's not that what goes around comes around, but it's like, hey, this show went on for way too long. As you all see, it was like, cycle, whatever. And you're like, okay. They were really trying anything at that point. And once they got rid of that original group, it's like, oh, Tyra was so heartbroken and so sad. You're saying it was the hardest thing ever. She really didn't say anything to them directly. Never really had any conversations with them. And then, like I said, what goes around comes around. Years later, it's like, they won't now. They want to fire Tyra. So it's like, I don't know. So much of it really reflected poorly on how she handled relationships with the girls on the show. And with those three as well.

[Fran]

All around. Yeah, just all around. And.

[Rhea]

But, you know, some of the girls seems like, you know, some of them certainly don't fully regret doing the show or any of those things. Like, it felt like some of the girls, like, hey, yeah, I would. I would do something like this again. Diff. Like, different, but I would do something like this again.

[Fran]

Yeah.

[Rhea]

So I think a lot of it.

[Fran]

Came with disappointment of how, like, Ebony talking about how she was just. Just disappointed with the way that Tyra treated her and the way she called her and certain words that she used with because she thought that she would understand. And she felt like the flip. The script was kind of flipped on her because she was expecting something else from Tyra.

[Rhea]

Yeah.

[Fran]

So people who thought Tyra was going to be, like, a mentor to her, to them.

[Rhea]

Yeah.

[Fran]

Just actually, turns out she just wanted to, you know.

[Rhea]

Yeah.

[Fran]

She was just trying to make good TV and made people feel shitty about themselves.

[Rhea]

Yep. And the same thing, even with. With Kenya when she was. First of all, she had to deal with a lot because the fact that they were like, we really had to retouch your photos. Cause, you know, you're eating so much. Just, like, so ridiculous. And then doing that shoot with those guys, and one of them being, you know, kind of creepy and touching her too much and making her uncomfortable. And instead of supporting her in that moment, there was no support, no. And no understanding.

[Fran]

Instead of telling the guy to stop, they told Kenya that you should tell him to stop.

[Rhea]

And Tyra's like, you should make a.

[Fran]

Little joke about it and, like, say it lightly. And it's like, no, somebody from the set should step in and tell this guy to stop. And I feel like maybe Tyra took out a lot of what maybe happened to her in the industry.

[Rhea]

I was gonna say the exact same thing.

[Fran]

These women totally. And was kind of like, well, I dealt with this, so you need to deal with it. Instead of completely changing and flipping and, you know, changing the mold of, like. Like, they kept saying, like, they just kept using this one line from Jay Badwell that they, you know, we wanted to change the industry. When we did the show, they just kept repeating that line. I'm like, but then you just treated all these women the same. Because then they would go, well, then we were just treating them like how they did in the industry. And it's like, do you want to change the industry, or you want to treat them like the industry? Then you got Janice Dickinson.

[Rhea]

You want to change the. Or you want to get them Ready for the industry.

[Fran]

And. And then you have Janice Dickinson, who. Oh, my God. Like this. That. It's so damaging. It really is. And it's damaging for. First of all, all the women on the show that experience this, and even some of them still spoke about how much those comments still stick with them. They still can't see themselves in a positive light, and they pick apart their bodies. But for everybody watching as well, who, you know, it's like picking apart themselves because of this shit.

[Rhea]

And that's another person, too, that you think. Someone else who's been. Who was in the industry for a really long time, and I'm sure, got torn to pieces time and time again. And they're so jaded and almost, like, brainwashed in a way, that they then push all of that onto these younger girls that you're just. And they're like, well, this is what people are gonna say. It's just. I'm just being honest. Cause I know how the industry works.

[Fran]

When she said that, Janice Higginson was like, she needs to lose 100 pounds. And. And Tyra was like, then she'd be 30 pounds. And Janice goes, yeah, that'd be better. I'm like, oh, my God. Like, it is horrible.

[Rhea]

And they knew that. They also knew that saying those things, it was. It was controversial. It was provocative. It was like, people. The shock value was there. So I think it was like, oh, wow.

[Fran]

Oh, my God.

[Rhea]

Did you hear what she said on that episode? Like, that's. So many people were having those conversations. So they definitely just got, like. They got lost in the reality TV madness of all that.

[Fran]

And then they started showing, you know, how much it changed now. Like, I mean, look at Kendall Jenner.

[Rhea]

Yeah.

[Fran]

Like, the Hadid. Like, a lot of, like, reality TV family become supermodels, but there was a stigma about coming from a reality show and being from Top Model and being, you know, kind of just thrown away to the side. You're not really signed with the agency. Yeah. You think your life's gonna change, and then, you know, you're kind of just pushed to the side. But whole thing was wild. And I have to say, like, I was watching. Being like, this is. I can't believe that. Like, I don't. I don't like watching Tyra made me uncomfortable, I have to say. Like, I. I just felt like she was putting on just a fake thing the whole time. And not even fake in a way that she was apologizing because she really wasn't. Like, she was.

[Rhea]

You know, it was still very much Trying to be like, I'm proud of, like, the crazy show that we built.

[Fran]

Yeah.

[Rhea]

There were some bumps in the road, but all in all, you know, we were just trying to make good tv. Felt like that's really all we were getting.

[Fran]

Yeah.

[Rhea]

It's kind of crazy. Cause they were not exactly little bumps.

[Fran]

No. And you can acknowledge the mistakes that you made. Like.

[Rhea]

Yeah.

[Fran]

Oh, man.

[Rhea]

Yeah. Just like no ownership, really. There's just a lot of deflecting, a lot of blaming other people. Oh, that was production.

[Mark Vallis]

Oh.

[Rhea]

I didn't have anything to do with that. Oh, this was that, you know, and you're like, well, you were the face of the show, so.

[Fran]

Yeah. Oh, God. Yeah. That was something. Yeah.

[Mark Vallis]

I'm.

[Fran]

I want to see if she comes out and says anything. Has she said anything about it?

[Rhea]

No, I don't think so.

[Fran]

I don't know what she would say.

[Rhea]

Well, she's living in Australia now with her. With her ice cream shop, so.

[Fran]

Yeah.

[Rhea]

Does she even really care?

[Fran]

Right? She might not even care.

[Rhea]

She has a post.

[Fran]

It's.

[Rhea]

Her last post is from February 7th on Instagram.

[Fran]

And then I was sad to hear Shandy and her boyfriend couldn't make it work. They tried to. She would get yelled out on the street. It's awful.

[Rhea]

So sad.

[Fran]

Yeah.

[Rhea]

To have to relive that and see that. I couldn't. I just couldn't believe when they fucking played it again. The Tyra Banks show. Insanity.

[Fran]

You know what? And it's so crazy. And not just America's Next Top Model, but just like television and talk shows in general used to be so insane and out of line and it just was considered, quote, unquote, normal. Because it's like what everyone did, right?

[Rhea]

That's like Ken was referencing the halftime Janet Jackson and was like, and after that, they're the regulators. But it's a little more strict.

[Fran]

Even like the. Even, like journalists interview it. Like, the way that they would ask people questions was so invasive. Totally. And thank God it has changed, you know, because it was insane. Just so crazy. Moving on. Exciting announcement. Hannah Montana 20th anniversary special coming to Disney, and it's hosted by Alex Cooper. And I just have to say, I just don't get where the Alex. Where Alex Cooper comes into this. I am very excited for a Hannah Montana special, 20th anniversary. I just. I am interested to see what happens here because I am confused where Alex Cooper comes into play for Hannah Montana 20th anniversary special.

[Rhea]

Well, she's interviewing her.

[Fran]

Oh. So it's like a sit down.

[Rhea]

It's a sit down.

[Fran]

Interview?

[Rhea]

Yeah.

[Noah]

Mediating like a mediator.

[Rhea]

Yes.

[Fran]

Because I was like, why aren't we just having the people like other people from Hannah Montana?

[Noah]

That wouldn't be better, I think anyway, like, it just.

[Fran]

Yeah, it just seems a little confusing to me.

[Rhea]

It really probably could have been hosted by Miley and like having other conversations, but this is. It's so. The special will be filmed in front of a live studio audience and will feature an exclusive in depth interview with Miley. Hosted by Alex Cooper, the conversation will offer an intimate look at the creation of one of pop culture's most iconic characters in the lasting impact the show and character I've had on fans around the world. With heartfelt nostalgia and fresh perspective, Cyrus will revisit the moments, music and memories that define an era. Viewers will be treated to never before seen archival footage. While some of the most memorable sets from Hannah Montana are brought back to life, including the Stewart family living room and the legendary Hannah Montana closet. There will also be some familiar notes. There's asterisks, notes that find their way back into the spotlight, which makes me think she sings, I would hope, right? Like there's some familiar notes.

[Fran]

Notes.

[Rhea]

Yeah, maybe she also sings a couple songs. It really does kind of sound like a lot of what Alex does already, you know, like, to me, because I feel like her Call her daddy episodes have gotten really, really, like there's a really high production value on a lot of them now. Like she's traveling to these people. They're not only doing full interviews, but they're kind of like vlogging or there's a performance or like Zane was just on. There's all these. There's a whole nother element to it that makes me think that they like they paired up to do this and then it's kind of that same similar product but will be on Disney. I was holding out hope because there were all these rumors about a potential one night show somewhere and that really excited me. Like a one night show that was like, holy shit.

[Fran]

Yeah, I would have put my kidney on the black market.

[Rhea]

Yeah. So I like kind of got my hopes up a little too much about that. There were a lot of rumors like around local New York City social that perhaps it was gonna be at msg. Like there was. Rumors were flying and I was like, oh my God. Like I will do anything to get in the door if that is what it is. But I think, you know, I think this is gonna be a lot of fun. Obviously, we haven't heard Miley really talk, so in depth about the show in a long time and getting to see more behind the scenes stuff. I hope maybe there's some other cast members involved.

[Fran]

That's my thing is like, this will be great because we will learn a lot and, you know, we'll have an interview and the whole thing. But for me, when I initially heard that, I'm like, okay, but what about some other cast members? What about Emily Osmit? What about Jackson Earle? Like, what about other Mitchell Musso? Like, you know, other cast that were involved in Hannah Montana sort of being included in this. And now, you know, Miley is Hannah Montana. So she is the main star and the, the main person pulling me into this, of course. But I'm interested to see and I'm excited no matter what because anything having to do with Hannah Montana excites me. But I, you know, maybe they still will announce a concert. I don't know. I'm holding out hope that they'll announce this and go, and by the way.

[Rhea]

We'Re doing a one night only. That's definitely true. This may not be the only Hannah thing that Miley does this year, but it is gonna be out March 24th on Disney Plus. I'm assuming they already filmed it would be my guess, but I guess maybe they could not have. But I feel like they did.

[Fran]

Yeah, I couldn't make a guess, honestly.

[Rhea]

Yeah, I don't. I, I'm, I'm not exactly sure. My thing is just like filming this in front of a live audience. I know. I'm sure they take everyone's phone and all those things, but the way I would be telling everybody I know that you were there. That I was there.

[Fran]

Yeah.

[Rhea]

Spread like wildfire that they filmed it. So maybe they haven't yet.

[Fran]

Maybe they haven't because it's got to get up somewhere that someone was there.

[Rhea]

Yeah, yeah.

[Fran]

You know, nobody has said anywhere that they were at a. It'd be on Tick Tock or something.

[Rhea]

Right. It's like, oh, I got this invite to this maybe. Yeah. Something outside, like the studio or wherever. They're taking my phone now.

[Fran]

Right, Right. I'm going in.

[Rhea]

Yeah, you're going in. So maybe it hasn't happened yet, but it's coming out March 24th, like I said. And Miley sounds pumped to talk about. She said Hannah Montana will always be a part of who I am. What started as a TV show became a shared experience that shaped my life and the lives of fans of so many. And I'll always be thankful for that connection. The fact that it still means so much to people all these years later is something I'm very proud of. This haniversary is my way of celebrating and thanking the fans who stood by me for 20 years.

[Fran]

Miley, you have no idea how much Hannah Montana means to us.

[Mark Vallis]

Yeah.

[Fran]

You really just have no idea.

[Rhea]

No idea.

[Fran]

So thank you.

[Rhea]

Yeah. So it's gonna be great. And I'm hoping, like, there's a few songs to end the. To end the show, you know, that.

[Fran]

Would be just the bonus.

[Rhea]

Nobody's perfect.

[Fran]

Yeah. If we could just hear her sing a little bit. Yeah, we'll be happy.

[Rhea]

Just like a little best of both worlds.

[Noah]

I bet all the money in the world that she sings. There's no way that they.

[Rhea]

Right. There's no way she does it.

[Noah]

Like, there's just no way she puts the wig on.

[Rhea]

Oh, my gosh.

[Fran]

She has to put the wig on.

[Rhea]

She's got to put the wig on.

[Fran]

She has to put the wig on.

[Mark Vallis]

Wow.

[Fran]

Wow.

[Rhea]

Putting the wig back on.

[Fran]

That would be sick. Ooh, I bet another trailer comes out where she's putting the wig on. Ooh. Wow. I'm very excited.

[Rhea]

I'm speechless.

[Fran]

Yeah, I'm very excited.

[Rhea]

That's rendered me speechless.

[Fran]

We have a lot to look forward to.

[Rhea]

Yeah. I can't wait to. Can't wait to see it and hope that that wig still fits perfectly.

[Fran]

Yes. And we know it will. Yes. It serves. Yep. All right, that wraps up the topics we're about to get into. Popcorner. But first, I want to remind you how good truly hard seltzer is. Truly hard seltzer delivers a juicy, refreshing fruit flavor that tastes exactly what you're craving. It's light and easy to drink, and it makes it perfect for spending time with friends and letting the day unfold naturally. It's a weekend. It's a Saturday. You want to sit back, crack open a truly hard seltzer, and just let the day unfold as it should with delicious truly. With just 5% ABV and only 100 calories, you can enjoy it without the heavy feeling. With more variety and creativity than other hard seltzers, Truly makes sharing simple and ensures that there's something for everyone. Make your dreams come truly and truly hard seltzer near you or visit www.trulyhardseltzer.com. all right, let's get into the Popcorner, where we take your hot takes, your voicemails and your opinions. Let's get into it. Noah, play the first voicemail.

[Listener]

Hey, Ran Fran, this is Mol from Oakton, Virginia. My hot Take or maybe more of a question is related to traitors. There is no way I am the only one who notices that the faithfuls who come into breakfast last are always the faithfuls that the traitors are debating whether or not they should kill. How did the faithfuls not track this every morning at breakfast? And then I feel like it would be so easy to figure out who the traitors are. It's such a big clue that nobody ever talks about. And I feel like no one, none of the traders, none of the faithfuls of the traders ever talk about it. And nobody watches this show talk about it either. And it drives me crazy. Crazy. So anyways, I guess my question is, is this something that you girls have talked about or thought about and why do you think it is? Is it more talked about? All right, thanks girls.

[Rhea]

I, I think I kind of missed what, what she said. She's saying that the faithfuls are always at breakfast early, like before the.

[Fran]

Yeah, but the last, the last people to walk through the door are the people that the traitors were contemplating murdering.

[Rhea]

Right.

[Fran]

And.

[Rhea]

Oh, I get what you're saying.

[Fran]

And then it walks in and it's like, it's, it's like the three or two people that they were talking about murdering last night, but they didn't. And then the one that they did is come in. I did see somewhere. And I do not know how true this is, is that they film it multiple different ways and that it might be just for editing purposes for tv.

[Rhea]

Yeah, right.

[Fran]

That we are seeing that it's just suspense build for us to be like.

[Noah]

How would they film a different ways when everyone's in the room and they like all like reaction to like them.

[Fran]

Walking in, like redoing it.

[Noah]

I think that would just be fully fake then.

[Fran]

I don't know.

[Noah]

Yeah, that's why like bullshit.

[Fran]

Yeah, that's why I have no idea if that's true either.

[Noah]

But I would hope not that way.

[Rhea]

Yeah, Yeah. I don't know if it's like, oh, well do entering breakfast again, like from the top, everybody.

[Fran]

Right.

[Noah]

Because they talk like that's such a big talking point of like you reacted this way. You dropped your fork when he walked in. Like, like if it was fake, that, that seems like I'd just be.

[Rhea]

No, I, I, I, I agree. And I feel like maybe even just with like the last few people is where they would want to try and switch it up different ways. But you can't like go back through the door once you're seen, you know? So I feel as Yeah, I know. I don't know. I guess it makes a lot of sense to think about it that way is like, oh, but then not. Not every time.

[Fran]

Yeah.

[Noah]

They mix them together with like random people.

[Rhea]

Not every time. It's like every person who was being talked about. It's always. There's always a couple for sure.

[Fran]

And it's.

[Rhea]

Maybe there's someone else mixed in that wasn't on the chopping block.

[Fran]

And it's not like anyone would know who they were talking about.

[Rhea]

Yeah.

[Fran]

Or. Well, I guess people are up for murder.

[Noah]

And it's more of like, if you catch on to that's the thing, then like you could just guess.

[Fran]

Right.

[Rhea]

And I guess if you also thought like, wow, Steven's. But they don't. They mix it up day to day. So it's not like, oh, Steven's been on the chopping block for a few days. He's been the last one in every single breakfast.

[Fran]

Yeah.

[Rhea]

To like add it up that way it's like it. They mix him in.

[Fran]

But I get what you're to pay attention a little bit.

[Rhea]

Yeah. Yeah, maybe. Maybe you're just really having to like write that down and.

[Fran]

Yeah. I'm wondering if it's an editing thing though. I don't know. It could be just to build suspense for the viewer to be like, who did they murder?

[Rhea]

Yeah.

[Mark Vallis]

But not in order.

[Noah]

I just don't know how they film it out of order because like, you see the room react.

[Rhea]

Well, they're saying. Maria's saying you can. They're filming it in order. It's an editing that they mix it up.

[Noah]

No, I know what you're saying.

[Mark Vallis]

I'm just like, I don't know how.

[Noah]

They would do that.

[Fran]

I don't know. I don't know either. I don't know either. That's why I'm asking. Yeah.

[Rhea]

Yeah, yeah, I guess. I don't know. I feel like maybe sometimes when it's three, like three people coming through the door at the end and they're like, oh, like maybe they're not actually the last people through the door.

[Fran]

Yeah. I don't know.

[Rhea]

Sometimes I don't know.

[Noah]

Traders is one of those shows where I feel like I almost don't want to know, like, what goes on production wise. Because I feel like a lot of it is probably kind of.

[Fran]

Yeah.

[Rhea]

Well, you know, they have to redo some stuff. It's tv.

[Fran]

Yeah. Like the shots of.

[Noah]

Of them like writing in their books at night in their bed, obviously are like.

[Fran]

Yeah, yeah. Posing and they have to film them pretending to go to sleep because. And like going up the stairs to be like, I'm going to bed. Because they don't sleep in the castle.

[Mark Vallis]

So.

[Noah]

Yeah, yeah, that's fine. But like if it's actually like, I.

[Fran]

Feel like they're not with the game. They're not affecting gameplay.

[Rhea]

No, no, not gameplay.

[Mark Vallis]

No, no.

[Rhea]

But like sometimes if somebody messes up something they're saying they gotta read, they got to redo it.

[Fran]

Yeah, for sure.

[Rhea]

So yeah.

[Fran]

But that is interesting though. We gotta pay attention a little bit more.

[Rhea]

That is true. I feel like, I feel like they, Everyone is thinking about that though. Like we're. I bet you Mark's notes, he was like this person came into breakfast last all these things, you know, it would.

[Fran]

Have been a good question to ask him.

[Mark Vallis]

Yeah.

[Rhea]

If only we had this question earlier.

[Fran]

All right, moving on.

[Listener]

Hey Rio, Fran, Noah and Olive, this is Rory from Wilmington, North Carolina. I wanted to know if you guys have seen anything about Chris Harrison's new spin off show. Not spinoff, but like new reality dating show. I've seen it all over my Instagram and the picture for it, like the.

[Rhea]

Announcement of it looks like AI gone wrong.

[Listener]

Like it just don't look real. It's an old, old picture of Chris Harrison. I just don't know if this is real and like if it is real.

[Rhea]

Why does the advertisement look like that? And then if you do think it's.

[Listener]

Real, like are you behind this? Do you think Chris Harrison can make a comeback?

[Rhea]

Like, I just need to know your.

[Listener]

Thoughts and if anybody else has seen this because I've seen it everywhere. Thanks, love you guys. Bye.

[Fran]

Love you too. I have not seen this is real.

[Rhea]

Oh you haven't?

[Fran]

No.

[Rhea]

Okay, so I mean this is on Chris Harrison's own Instagram and he's working with a. You know, a reality TV producer is also tagged in in the post. So it's, it is a poorly curated graphic but I don't really think that means anything. Like I think it's just a bad graphic. But they are now casting this is Dating for a traditional marriage. Chris Harrison is back hosting a brand new dating series. A prominent streaming service is casting single men and women 21 plus who want a traditional marriage minded partnership built on commitment and shared values. We're looking for singles who believe in clear roles, long term commitment and building a life together and who are dating with real intention. Apply now and then. It's Chris Harrison's caption says it's time to help people find love again. Now Casting. So I guess they're bringing this back. To be honest, I don't really have any interest in this.

[Fran]

No.

[Rhea]

Happy for, like, happy for Chris, I guess. But at the same time, this isn't. This isn't Greg. This isn't bringing me in. I don't really like some of the wordage they're using.

[Fran]

I don't like that.

[Rhea]

They're like, let's get back to it. Let's get the traditional role marriage. Some of the verbiage. I'm like. Like, I don't really know clear roles. It's like, oh, so you get in the kitchen. Yeah. It's like a lot. All women who just want to find the man to take care of them and provide. Like, is that the show we're getting here?

[Fran]

I don't know.

[Rhea]

I'm not. I'm not fully into that. I don't really know what kind of different vibe this is gonna be, but I guess he's back on, so.

[Fran]

Yeah, I feel like it's gonna be, I don't know, like a miss. Like, you know what I mean? Like. Yeah. It just seems like the time had come.

[Rhea]

Right.

[Fran]

And it was.

[Rhea]

Look, the audience, like people were. I'm sure there's people out here that will want to watch this, you know.

[Fran]

But speaking of bad promos, the comments are pretty funny. The. The Taylor Frankie Paul bachelor promo. Who edited that?

[Rhea]

You thought it was bad?

[Fran]

There was something off about the editing of her, like, walk through it. Like had the millennial pause at the beginning.

[Rhea]

Oh, yes.

[Fran]

Like her. You know what I'm saying?

[Rhea]

Like, it's like.

[Fran]

Yeah, I feel like they did her.

[Rhea]

Dirty in front of a bat. It's just in front of a, like green screen. Like a. It's like a weird green screen.

[Fran]

I think I just felt like they. They did her dirty with that promo.

[Rhea]

Yeah. I think it's just like. Unfortunately we're green screened, but other than that. I don't think it's. It is because it's like, it's very high def on her. But then there's moving video.

[Mark Vallis]

Yeah.

[Rhea]

And then she's like the background.

[Fran]

But it looks awkward. Yeah. But I am excited for her season. But I. Yeah, I.

[Rhea]

Same.

[Fran]

Was confused by that.

[Rhea]

I won't be. Oh, I don't know what. Just sound just played on my phone. I will not be. I don't know if I'll be tuning into the Chris Harrison.

[Fran]

No, I don't think so.

[Rhea]

Dating show for the. For clear roles in traditional marriage.

[Fran]

Yeah, I don't. I don't think so on that. All right, moving on.

[Listener]

Hi, guys. This is Sam from Illinois. I just recorded another one and I sounded like an absolute. So just ignore that. But my hot take is that I think more books should be turned into TV shows rather than movies. I think it allows there's so much more time to tell the full story, to get the background, build tension between the characters. Like the housemaid, specifically should be a series where book one is season one and then book two is season two, and so on. And then maybe Sydney Sweeney would be a better actor because I think she's a better TV actor than she is a movie actor. If you look at her track record. Yeah. I just think more books should be adapted into TV shows than not movies. Let me know what you guys think. Bye.

[Fran]

I like that a lot. I agree with it. I totally agree. I think that it allows more space to go in depth. They can even add. You have more than enough in the book and then add shit.

[Rhea]

Yeah.

[Fran]

You know what I mean? You got. And plus more. I totally agree. I think that any book can be made into a TV show.

[Rhea]

Yeah.

[Fran]

And I think when it gets made into a movie, you gotta cut shit out.

[Noah]

And look at Game of Thrones. Like, imagine if they tried to like, squeeze all this into one movie instead of like multiple shows.

[Fran]

It would never work. It would never work. And I like that.

[Mark Vallis]

I like that idea.

[Fran]

And I think you're right.

[Rhea]

Yeah, I agree. But then I also. I also think that there are plenty of times where it does work and you still get a great product as a movie because you need. I mean, you need some of them to become movies. It's like, I think of Harry Potter. Obviously you lose a lot in the movies, but the movies are still fantastic. So there's still a lot of joy that the movies can bring. But yes, there is always gonna. Some stuff missing that's in a book. And now, now they're making a TV show, they're going to have more stuff that's going to be from. From the books. But some of these big movies, like the new Ryan Gosling movie that's coming out, Project Hail Mary is. Is a book.

[Fran]

Yeah.

[Rhea]

And sometimes it's like, yeah, make that into a big blockbuster movie. When there's certain things. But I think like the mystery, there's certain genres, I think like that mystery, thriller, romance world works really well as TV shows. Cause there's more to work with, there's more details. You get so much more to put the puzzle pieces together than when they take it and make it a movie. And then a lot of that stuff.

[Fran]

Gets lost totally even like going back to people we meet on vacation. The way I didn't read the book, but the way that it was described to me that you could have had multiple episod that were each summer. Yeah, you know, it could have been broken up like that. So I do think it does depend on the genre. But I do like what you're saying, and I think that some of these books could look more towards a TV show than movie.

[Rhea]

I think of Seven Husbands all the time too, when it's like TV show, movie, TV show, movie.

[Fran]

Seven Husbands could be a TV show.

[Rhea]

Seven Husbands to me would be such a good TV show. And for a while it was like, oh, it's gonna be a movie.

[Fran]

And it's like, there's so much information in Seven Husbands.

[Rhea]

I feel like a t TV show would just be so much better.

[Fran]

A movie might be doing it a.

[Rhea]

Disservice, especially when it's broken up in certain chapters or characters that you're like. It so clearly can be a limited series.

[Fran]

Right? And yes, for sure. Now you got me all worked up one of these TV shows.

[Rhea]

I know, I know, I know.

[Fran]

Shit. All right, let's do one more Acorns believes that everybody has the potential to be a great investor. That's why they make it so easy to start investing. With Acorns, you can sign up and give your money a chance to grow in five minutes. You can even start investing with just your spare change. Acorns will round every purchase you make up to the nearest dollar and automatically invest your spare change for you. And with Acorns potential screen, you get a clear view of how your money could grow over time. Plus, you can quickly adjust how much you're investing every day, week or month to make sure you're building towards your goals. Ready to see your money's potential? Sign up now and Acorns will boost your new account with a $20 bonus. Investment Head to acorns.com chicks to download the Acorns app to get started. Paid non client endorsement compensation provides incentive to Positively promote Acorns Tier 2 compensation provided potential subject to various factors such as customers accounts age Investment settings does not include Acorns fees Results do not predict or represent the performance of any Acorns portfolio. Investment results will vary. Investing involves risk. Acorns Advisors LLC and SEC registered investment advisor view important [e-mail] chicks.

[Listener]

Hi Rhea, Fran and Noah. It's Olivia, my sister Sarah and I love your Podcast and text about it all the time. And we've been wanting to send you a hot take slash opinion that we're curious to hear your opinions on. But essentially, we both have a really hard time getting into shows when we know that the cast stop getting along or don't like each other to begin with. Some recent examples are like Gavin from Summer I Turned Pretty, Rudy from Outer Banks and Karamo from Queer Eye. And something about knowing that they don't get along just really takes us out of the show. And it's not even about shipping people outside of shows. It's just so hard to believe the acting in scripted shows when you know they don't like each other and enjoy reality TV when you don't. Like when they don't like each other. On the flip side, cast like Friends or Modern Family that get along so well just give you this warm and cozy feeling when you watch them. Other people might not have this issue, but we do. So we're just curious how you feel on this topic.

[Mark Vallis]

Love you.

[Fran]

Love you too.

[Rhea]

Now, interesting.

[Fran]

It is interesting because I feel like we know too much now. Right? Right. We know so much behind the scenes. Whereas, like, back in the day, like, thinking about Sopranos, when they talk about the Sopranos now, it's like Edie Falco's like, yeah, it was a working relationship with James Gandolfini. Like, we were not, you know. And hearing that now you're like, ah, really?

[Rhea]

But even I'm with friends that I don't think. Like, they were all. Like, they were all. They're all very close, but excuse me.

[Fran]

They were best friends.

[Rhea]

No, watch.

[Fran]

Watch your mouth. They ate lunch together every day.

[Rhea]

I'm pretty sure that they had their ups and downs. Yes. Like between. And that's natural.

[Fran]

Like sometimes season.

[Rhea]

Exactly. Like, sometimes you're gonna gravitate more towards this person this year and the other. With an ensemble cast. With an ensemble cast. It's just. You are right, Rhea, that we just know too much and see too much. Where it's like, especially with social media, it's too much. I think of Outer Banks. It's like, oh, so Rudy and follow this person is every. And then you're just like, it. It does take you out of it. I totally understand that.

[Fran]

Well. And you also can't expect everyone to be best friends like you are.

[Rhea]

It is a Taking a bunch of strangers.

[Fran]

They are acting and trust me, I'm with you. Like, you know, it does suck when you hear that actor. You're like, really, like best friends behind the scenes. But at the same time, you can't expect that a bunch of strangers are just gonna be best friends and all. And all get along and, like, all have the same interests and, you know, everyone is closer to other people. You know what I mean? Like, you're not best friends with every person you meet.

[Rhea]

And wasn't it, like, I think of, wasn't it Rachel McAdams or Ryan Gosling who. They hated each other at first when they. Obviously they dated after. But. But filming the Notebook, they really didn't like each other at first.

[Fran]

Yeah, they hated each other, and then they had a steamy romance. But, like, even thinking about Gossip Girl, like, all the stories about, like, Blake Lively and Lay Meester weren't really friends or best friends. It's like you would hope that you get along with your castmates and have that friend relationship at the same time. Like, yeah, you're different people with. With different interests and different personalities and you might just not get along.

[Rhea]

Think about the One Tree Hill say, you know, it's. I think they were certainly. And there are times and times again now there's so many different reasons why they. They had issues. And the girls now have really been able to come together and. And have those relationships and kind of talk about how the creator of the show was involved in trying to kind of almost keep them apart. But, like, Chad Montgomery was married to Sophia Bush and then not married to Sophia. Like, there's definitely some things where things were getting messy and drama and all that. And if that was happening now on some of these shows, my God, you'd be locked into every dirty, dirty detail. And yeah, maybe it would change your opinion on the show. I also think it depends on the show. Like, yes, a cast like Modern Family all being so close is amazing. And it's just like an added benefit. Cause you're like, the show is a warm hug anyway. So you're like, oh, it's so nice that they all loved each other. I don't know if, like, some of them didn't like each other, if I'd look at Modern Family differently.

[Fran]

I don't know.

[Noah]

It's not. If you found out, like, Jay and Sofia Vergara up hating.

[Rhea]

It's almost like.

[Fran]

It's almost like expecting you to be best friends with all your co workers. You know what I mean? At the end of the day, like, they see it as work. So it's like you're not best friends with every person who works here. You know, like, you are closer with other people than others, but you know, listen, if I was on a tv, I'd want us to feel like one big happy family. Of course. But I feel like you're just going to get that one. You're going to get one or two people in the group that are just.

[Noah]

Yeah.

[Fran]

An asshole or whatever it is.

[Rhea]

It is an interesting phenomenon, though, to think about that, where it's like, fans now do get so much more invested when the cast all like each other. And I think it's stranger things. Yeah. Like each other, exactly. It's just. And when they're definitely an added bonus.

[Fran]

It is.

[Rhea]

And when they're doing press and it seems like they're all having fun, it's great promo for the shows or the movies or whatever, and it gets you more invested and you get more into it and you're like, oh, well, not. They all. They all love each other and do all these things. So it is interesting when you do see the ones that you're like, oh, you know, those were two people that were just working together. And it is interesting that we all kind of crave knowing that they all get along.

[Mark Vallis]

Mm.

[Noah]

What did I miss with Gavin and summarizing pretty. Is that a thing?

[Rhea]

Yeah. There was always some rumors that he wasn't really as close with the rest of the.

[Fran]

Yeah.

[Rhea]

Them and like, for a plethora of other reasons. And like, Chris Briney and Conrad. Like, Conrad and Steven are, like, besties in real life. And I don't know, I think maybe there was some of Gavin's girl. Like, it was like, oh, Gavin got married. And it was just like, sounds like the show. All these other, you know, like, Gavin was whisked away and I think. I don't know, maybe some of, like, own Gavin's own personal.

[Fran]

Yeah.

[Rhea]

Beliefs and choices was, like, kind of different than some of the other cast members.

[Fran]

And people were looking into that deep when they were doing press together, which happens with all shows like Tell Me Lies doing press together now, they're like, oh, this person is like that person. I'm like, I'm not seeing that.

[Noah]

They also.

[Fran]

You know what I mean? Like, I'm like, they actually seem like.

[Rhea]

They're all seem like they all pretty much get along. They've all found their significant others from this. Right.

[Noah]

They're all dating each other with that show. I think that'd be the last show that I'd have a problem with it because they all hate each other in the show anyway.

[Rhea]

Yeah, right.

[Mark Vallis]

Exactly.

[Fran]

Like, actually, it adds to it.

[Rhea]

Yeah.

[Fran]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rhea]

Yep.

[Fran]

It is interesting, though. It is a big draw, but I think we just.

[Rhea]

People do love to hear when the cast gets along.

[Fran]

Right? And then when one person doesn't, you're like, why not?

[Mark Vallis]

So.

[Fran]

Yep. But. All right, that wraps up the popcorn. Or keep calling in with your hot takes and your questions. We want to hear from you. Picture this. It's Monday morning. You open up your laptop and Outlook hits you with 87 unread emails. Your calendar now looks like a game of Tetris. Your boss wants a report, your team wants a presentation, and you just want to take a nap. Enter Microsoft Copilot. Copilot summarizes your emails and boom, you're caught up. It drafts your report in Word, it builds your slides in PowerPoint and even pulls insights from your Excel data. Suddenly, you're the office hero and you're organized and responsible, all because Copilot did the stuff you didn't want to. So if you want to reclaim your time and get your life together, try Microsoft Copilot. Copilot. Because sometimes the smartest Move is letting AI do the work. Learn more at Microsoft.comm365Copilot.

[Rhea]

All right, everyone.

[Fran]

We are here with a very special guest. We are joined by professional ballroom dancer, choreographer, musician, three time Mirrorball champ, and now faithful in this season of the Traders. Mark Vallis. Thank you for joining us.

[Mark Vallis]

Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.

[Rhea]

A tried and true faithful. We're so excited that you're here because when we saw you out in la, we knew you were going to be on Traders. We were so excited. We're like, when you. We got him, get him into the studio in New York so we can talk about it. And we're just now approaching the end of the season here. We only have a couple episodes left and of course, the reunion. But how is it watching it all back for you? Is it. Is it kind of frustrating? Because of course they have to condense it so much. So you're like, I'm assuming there's so much more gameplay and things that are happening that we just all don't see.

[Mark Vallis]

I mean, yeah, I mean, you're in the castle for 10 hours a day.

[Rhea]

Yeah.

[Mark Vallis]

Right. And the episodes are an hour, hour, hour and a half, maybe some of them. So I say, as a fan, loving it. As a contestant, I'm like, oh, there's so much missing, you know, because there's a lot of reasons to why we get to where we get. There's a lot of reasons why certain things fly under the radar. Certain things don't. And I was just telling someone earlier, like, this is a game of. It's a game of paranoia.

[Fran]

Yeah.

[Mark Vallis]

And like, you really. You don't know your ass from your elbow in there. Like, it's so different watching it at home, like I always say, because I have some friends who are like, how are you not seeing this? I'm like, it's really easy when you know who the traitors are in episode one at home. Like, that's why so many people struggle to guess who the secret trader was, you know, because when you. When that information is pulled from you and there's so many people, like, yeah, it's, you know, discombobulated.

[Fran]

Yeah.

[Rhea]

So we all have the map. We all can see. And it's like, not putting the pieces together.

[Mark Vallis]

That's why it's fun, though, right? Like, I would be curious if they did a season where the audience didn't know either.

[Fran]

You see, that would drive me insane.

[Mark Vallis]

But wouldn't that be so fun?

[Fran]

It would be fun because we would be a part of it.

[Mark Vallis]

Yeah. And that.

[Fran]

And that's sort of what they did with the secret traitor. And even I was like, I need to know immediately.

[Mark Vallis]

And I know that a big part of the thing is seeing the traitors talk in the turret and all that, but I'm wondering if for the first few episodes, it was like, the audience doesn't know you, and then you get that later. You know what I mean?

[Fran]

Did you want to be a faithful or a traitor?

[Mark Vallis]

So when you go through an extensive kind of grilling by Alan, he kind of asks you all the questions. And at the time, I was up for either. I think I. In hindsight, I probably should have pushed a little harder to be a trader. I was kind of like, I was really into Dylan Efron's game. Like, that just kind of. I was like, oh, that's how I would do it. And me and him then became friends on Dancing. So, yeah, I don't think I pushed. But now in hindsight, like, we're almost at semifinal, and I've not had one vote at the roundtable, so I know how to not get votes. Like, my whole game. My whole game was keep your friends close and your enemies closer. Like, if you thought someone was a traitor, like, you know, stay in their good graces. You know what I mean? Or do your best. Look, there's times you're wrong, of course. That's the whole game. But, yeah, you don't want to, like, as soon as you get a sniff, be like, it's them. It's because it's over for you.

[Fran]

Yeah. And we've seen that happen time and time again. And you're right. Your name has not been brought up once.

[Mark Vallis]

No, not once.

[Fran]

Like, everyone. This season especially. And you've watched every season. So, you know, I feel like people are just, like, really blindly trusting. No, they're faithful. Like, as if they know it for 100% fact.

[Mark Vallis]

Well, I mean, like, you know, it depends what scenario you're talking about.

[Fran]

Like, I feel like they know you're a faithful.

[Mark Vallis]

Right, Right.

[Rhea]

But it's like, how.

[Mark Vallis]

Yeah, right.

[Rhea]

Like, that's great for me.

[Fran]

It's great for you, but it's like, how are they so sure? It's just hard to trust anybody. And then when it comes to Roc, Rob. No, like, I feel like, was there suspicion about him that's just not being shown.

[Mark Vallis]

I mean, I think, look, everyone gets talked about. Everyone has their day in the sun. Everyone, you know, has those moments. There's a lot more to, like, Rob's game, I think that has kind of flown by the waist that people aren't really appreciating. And as someone who's watched this for a long time, like, if you. Do you watch the Traders podcast.

[Fran]

Yeah.

[Mark Vallis]

So do you watch Boston Rob break it down. Right. Like, Boston Rob knows what he's talking about.

[Fran]

Right.

[Mark Vallis]

And he is very, you know, he admires Rob's game and what he's doing. And there's lots of things. Like, I used this scenario the other day, and then it was funny. He went on the show and said, like, I'm like a cat. I used that. I was like, rob's like a cat. He reminds me of, like, you know who else is like this? Derek Hough. Derek's the type of guy that you could go to a concert with him and you'd go by the backstage area and they just let him in. Then you'd try and you get your ass kicked by. Right. Rob has that same quality, you know, so he. Like, with the Lisa.

[Fran]

That's a perfect description.

[Mark Vallis]

Yeah, with the Lisa catch and then the Candace catch we had. There was some stuff you didn't see where Johnny was protecting Lisa. Not. Not on purpose because obviously he's a faithful. Right. But when we played for the Dagger, right. I did that mission with Johnny. Like, me and Johnny ran up the hill together. We got the gold. We love Johnny down, by the way. We're really good friends. And Tara. But I said to him, I was like, yo, we gotta vote Lisa tonight. Like, are you Willing to do it. He's like, yeah, yeah. I was like, all right, great. We play for the dagger. We get back to the castle, and the whole castle has now moved to Natalie. And I'm like, no, no, no. Like, so there was a moment where I had a conversation with John. I was like, bro, like, we gotta get back for Lisa. Right. So that put him in trouble because Lisa was. We were coing for Lisa that night, and because it looked like he was moving the vote to Natalie, but it was through Candace. Right. So that got him in trouble. And then we had Natalie at the banquet over the antidote. That was very suspicious as well. And then the next day, Candice was pushing Johnny for a shield at the art museum, which was also weird. So the way it all landed, Rob was able to just.

[Fran]

Cat.

[Rhea]

Cat, like, right through that, and he.

[Mark Vallis]

Didn'T react at all. Like, when he got grilled at the table, like I said, people were like, oh, that was like, traitor on traitor in the room. In my opinion, from watching these shows, it wasn't Boston Rob and Bob the drag Queen. That's traitor on traitor. Danielle and Carolyn. That was traitor on traitor. Right, Right. I don't know if you've watched the British ones, Paul and Harry. That was, like, somewhat traitor on traitor. But again, Harry sat. He sat deep in the cut. He didn't get emotional, and he didn't react. Rob did the same thing. So it just kind of hasn't.

[Rhea]

It doesn't feel like Rob has really led the charge on the other traders. It was just like, once those names came up, it was like, well, it.

[Mark Vallis]

Was jumping on the bandwagon.

[Rhea]

Jump on it, which is. Is good, I think. Okay, so I have. We have so many questions, but the. One of the biggest things watching for us that we're like, oh, my God, this feels obvious, but maybe it. It isn't. Candace having the throwaway vote to Rob.

[Mark Vallis]

Yes.

[Rhea]

And then immediately next roundtable going so hard for him and can't. And then Candace is a traitor. Did that cause any of you to be like, we need to look at Rob.

[Mark Vallis]

So. So I'm gonna speak about this from my perspective because again, there's a saying, like, everyone remembers it how they need to. Right. And everyone will have their own perception of how that went down. And if this was Survivor rule number one, Rob should have been voted out next to C. Right. But we'd had so many casualties, you know, like, at the time, and we'd lost players that just. Just weren't traders. Like, so honestly, like, it just Kind of. It just. It didn't feel like trader on trader. Like if looking back on it. Sure. Like we should have. That should have been the next vote. But imagine if that was just the next vote. And Candace's whole game was like, consistency like we have to. And she was very eloquent, very smart, played a great game. And day one it was a throwaway vote, and day two it was. This is the vote. Well, yesterday you said it was a throwaway vote. So which one is it? You know, so it kind of felt at the time because no one was really heavily looking at Rob, like, oh, you're just trying to get one of our good faithfuls out on the way out.

[Fran]

Right.

[Mark Vallis]

You know?

[Fran]

Gotcha.

[Mark Vallis]

And because he didn't. He didn't overly react. He was just like, you know, he was just like, you know, like, that's just not true.

[Fran]

Yeah.

[Mark Vallis]

You know what I mean? I think that was kind of. I wish I love Candace. She's great. I wish she'd have gone harder at him and forced him to, you know, and it's on us. It's our bad by not, you know, even though this is traitor survival rules, like, if someone has an advantage in the game or if someone. Something like that happens, you have to go for them next. We just didn't do it in the.

[Fran]

Moment, you know, and the argument of, like, him fumbling with his fork in the morning, you know, it didn't really play. I dropped four.

[Mark Vallis]

Exactly. Right.

[Fran]

And also, like, it would make. Oh, he was upset that Colton went home and that sort of thing. So it, like kind of plays into that now. How did you feel, you know, this past episode that we saw Natalie at the table say to Rob, like, say, say you have. I hated that same. I hated that. I hated it. And I felt like, you know, Natalie, who's such a great Survivor player, love her.

[Mark Vallis]

She's one of my favorite. Like when she walked in when all. Cause I, you know, I watch Survivor so much when they walked in, I was like, oh, we got Rob C, Jam, jam. Natalie Anderson. I didn't tell them that, you know, I played because I was like, oh, yeah, it's fire. Cool. You know. But I was very excited to play with her because I loved her season. Blood versus water.

[Rhea]

But it was weird because it felt like anytime she was maybe under a little pressure, she just crumbled quickly.

[Mark Vallis]

Well, it happened at the banquet.

[Fran]

Yeah.

[Mark Vallis]

And then outing Rob for the dagger. Yeah. So that was like.

[Rhea]

And if anybody was on her, like, all of a sudden her vote, like, she Lost this strategic vote, it'd be like, well, I'm just gonna vote for the person who thinks it's me.

[Mark Vallis]

That's Survivors.

[Rhea]

Yeah.

[Mark Vallis]

It shows Survivor mentality of, like, I'll do whatever it takes to survive.

[Fran]

Right.

[Mark Vallis]

She's a great gamer, smart thinker. But, yeah, that was like. Because I was in the dagger pact too.

[Fran]

Yeah. Right. So I was like, Dagger 6. The Dagger 6. But I was like, why do this? Why?

[Rhea]

In front of everyone?

[Fran]

Why?

[Mark Vallis]

Why? Like, why not, like, have a discussion about it? You know, so. And then we lost Stephen in the crossfire. Steven was in my alliance. I was never voting for Steven. Like, so what happened was there was a push for Steven. Right. Well, originally we were going for Johnny. And, like, there was so much missing from that table. It was epic. Because the roundtable's an hour and each.

[Fran]

Person gets to speak.

[Mark Vallis]

Everybody speaks.

[Fran]

Okay. That's what I thought. It just gets cut down.

[Mark Vallis]

You're not forced to speak. But, like, when people are like, why aren't these people talking? Everybody speaks at the round table. Maybe there's one or two where people don't. Because when in the early. When there's 28 players and however many 24 players and there's Michael Rappaport and.

[Fran]

Stuff, like, you don't get to speak. You know, I'm gonna let them do that.

[Mark Vallis]

Yeah. Like. Like stay out the way.

[Rhea]

Yeah.

[Mark Vallis]

You know what I mean? So we were going for Johnny because of the Lisa pulling off the shield thing. And then Johnny actually gave himself this cute nickname in the castle. He'd call himself Leaky Boat because, like, if he hit, the info would just be, like, going around. So, you know, we would call him that. So. But I believed him. So then for me, now that the numbers are down, the village voting mentality, I didn't want to do that. I said, I believe Johnny. I want to prove to the remaining players that if I believe you at the table, I'm not going to vote for you, because everybody's voting for you. Steven was in my alliance. I had loyalty to Steven. I had pushed my chips in on Steven. I'm not gonna vote for Steven either, because I just don't think he's a traitor. I threw my vote at Tara because I knew she'd forgive me. She's the only one at the table that I could go outside and be like, tara, I'm sorry. Like, I didn't wanna vote for your boy Johnny. Cause I believed him. And I can't vote for Steven either. So, like, I voted for Tara. It was kind of for that was my throwaway vote, you know. Cause I didn't think Tara was really either. I know Kristin had to. And we talked about it and then that whole pop up with the Tara, Tara, Tara, Tara, Tara. I just didn't see it, you know, but there. What you. But when Johnny was in hot water, we had to look at, hey, if Johnny's a traitor, like, who's to say that he won't recruit his best friend that we just found out is his best friend, you know? You want to talk about that, right?

[Rhea]

It was just a unbelievable conversation.

[Fran]

It was so funny because you sort of stepped in and you were like, listen, you know, I've had so many partners and if. And people that I've worked with and if they were here, like, I don't know if I would trust them 100%. And they were basically like, no, shut up. We're best friends.

[Mark Vallis]

I also want to articulate that I wasn't talking about Dancing with the Stars. Like, some people are like, how can you compare the Olympics to Dancing with Stars? I wasn't doing that. First and foremost. I was comparing the art and the craft and the discipline of dancing, which has, after lots of research has shown that it's equivalent to a sport. Right. And I've had professional partners throughout my life and career. I use this example, right? Imagine me in the castle. Now I will use Dancing with Stars as example. Imagine me in the castle with any other pro on the show. Then imagine me in there with Derek.

[Listener]

Right?

[Mark Vallis]

There's a difference.

[Rhea]

Totally.

[Mark Vallis]

Did I know they knew each other?

[Fran]

Yes.

[Mark Vallis]

Did I know that they are both ice skaters? Of course. Do I watch ice skating? Maybe once every four years.

[Fran]

Do you know what I mean?

[Mark Vallis]

But I don't, I don't like, currently. I don't like, you know, have my ice skating knowledge, like in my head in the trader's castle, you know, of course I knew they knew each other. I didn't know it was like me and Derek. I didn't know it was ride or die. Like, it was. I didn't know it was like, hey, get the shovel type relationship. You know what I mean? So. So when I said that, I said I was referring to Derek at one point too. Like, if Derek was in this game and I thought he was a traitor, I would vote for him.

[Fran]

Because you still can't trust. We had this conversation yesterday where I was like, like, I like, still, I wouldn't trust you 100% just because it's like the game. Like you, you go to, you Go there to play a game, and it would be so hard.

[Mark Vallis]

And that's why I said, but I would be paranoid of this game.

[Fran]

I would just be paranoid the entire.

[Rhea]

Time, which is why I'm. I'm kind of shocked that they didn't do it. Just from, like, a show perspective of. Of making the show and picking the traders from the beginning to split those two up.

[Mark Vallis]

Well, yeah, that's. It's interesting. It's also like, you know, the other thing you do when you've done reality, like Dancing or Housewives or whatever it is, you have to also, like, put your producer hat on a little bit. Like, who would I make a traitor if I was producing this show? You know what I mean? It's like, we knew the Olympics was coming, so there's all this stuff in your head.

[Rhea]

That's why we were joking, too. We were like, well, maybe that is why they both need to be faithful. Spiz. What if their friendship blew up right before the Olympics coverage?

[Mark Vallis]

100%. And I think, like, we need them in the broadcast. There is an argument to be made that Johnny was recruited or Tara could be recruited. I didn't think they, like looking at it. It's like, it was pretty clear that they didn't start, but, like, I was with Johnny the whole time until those two days where it was, like, pulling off. Like, it was. It was Lisa. We were going for Lisa, like, if she had done the amulet or not. At that point, we, like, we were getting close. You know what I mean? But, yeah, like, I love Johnny and Tara so much. But, yeah, when they said that, like, we're best friends, we ride or die, we were in each other's weddings, and, yeah, it was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. So now you guys have kept a secret this whole time. That's something to look at, right? But I understand why they did it, because this is going back to Survivor. Like, you. If you have Boston Robin Amber on there, you're breaking one of. You're breaking it up totally.

[Fran]

Like, you're signing one of them, huh?

[Mark Vallis]

Yeah.

[Fran]

So they made the right immediately.

[Mark Vallis]

Exactly. And I'll tell you another thing. I was sat next to Tara the whole. Pretty much the whole roundtable. Once I was next to Portia, then there was Rob C. And then you were in the same seat every time. I could see her vote. So what does that mean? If I can see Tara's vote, what does that mean? Right, that's what. Johnny's vote.

[Fran]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mark Vallis]

That is a numbers game. This is not A team game.

[Fran]

And you came ready because you took all the notes and you've been sharing all of your notes.

[Mark Vallis]

Yeah, I haven't shared all of them, though.

[Fran]

Oh, I like how when you block them out, it's like some of it gets blurred.

[Mark Vallis]

It's like a Bluey character.

[Fran]

Yeah, exactly. But I mean, I assume when you go back at night, right? When you go back to your rooms, it's hard to think about anything else but the game.

[Mark Vallis]

Oh, no. Yeah, you're.

[Fran]

So that's where all the note taking comes in.

[Mark Vallis]

The show does so well at making it. It all immersive. It's like a real experience, like something you dream of as a kid to go do this, like, experience that feels real from start to finish. My wall. Have you seen that meme of. Of Charlie Day?

[Fran]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mark Vallis]

That was my. That was my wall. But, like, like, and I journaled the whole time. So when I watched the show, I read my journal back and like, so I'm like, oh, that's in there. Oh, this is missing. Like, this is how we got here. So. Yeah, I'm a note taker. That's kind of my.

[Fran]

How did you sleep at night?

[Mark Vallis]

I mean, look, there were nights where you don't sleep well, but you're. You're. You're exhausted. Yeah, you're absolutely exhausted. You're. The, like, the challenges are like, they're not crazy, like people. Someone asked me what's harder, Dancing with the stars or the challenges on the trailer. So I was like, dancing with the Stars. Like. Like it's not even a good competition.

[Fran]

You could kind of not say bullshit. The challenge.

[Mark Vallis]

But like.

[Rhea]

Like, you're running up the hill. The mountain one was hard.

[Fran]

Yeah. Like, that was like cardio.

[Rhea]

It's like, not all back to back to back to back crazy cardio. Like, then you got the ones where you got it. You know, there's always the one in the cabin with this. With the freaky stuff. There's always.

[Mark Vallis]

That was tame this year. Like, did you see it last year when they dumped all the.

[Rhea]

Yes.

[Mark Vallis]

I was not looking forward to that.

[Fran]

Well, then this past episode, I honestly was sort of pissed when they showed the challenge for this one. I'm like, like, this is gonna.

[Mark Vallis]

Which one was it? The jack in the box.

[Rhea]

Okay, this is gonna be so obvious.

[Fran]

The traders gotta jump out.

[Rhea]

They're gonna be able to hear.

[Fran]

Like, I was actually, like, getting frustrated for the traders, but I'm. You can't. Because then it would be way too.

[Rhea]

Once the watching it. Like, once the creek of the openings sounded the same every single time. I'm like, oh, say so they just put this in.

[Fran]

They had it literally. I was giving me so much anxiety. I was like, I.

[Rhea]

The creek sounds very sweet.

[Mark Vallis]

I'll leave that to interpretation. But, yeah, you weren't hearing anything.

[Fran]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rhea]

The freak was really.

[Fran]

That.

[Rhea]

It was like, yeah, for every single one.

[Fran]

But let's talk about Eric's recruitment, which has been sweet.

[Rhea]

Eric, hilarious and a smart move from Rob.

[Mark Vallis]

Well, when I watched it back and I was the other choice, I was.

[Rhea]

Like, f. Truly like Brie and I said the same thing. We were like, I kind of wish it was Mark to see what would have happened, but I think you would.

[Fran]

Have done so well.

[Rhea]

I think Rob knows that you're too good. So it's.

[Mark Vallis]

Me and Rob have talked about this a lot.

[Rhea]

Have you? Because if I'm putting myself in Rob's position, I'm like, Mark is a really good player and really smart, and I think he could be a good trader. And in Rob's mind, I think it's like, I'd probably have to win it with Mark.

[Mark Vallis]

Eric, here's the thing.

[Rhea]

Eric, you could kind of ditch pretty quickly, it seems.

[Mark Vallis]

Well, you know, to Eric's defense, Eric is a smart guy.

[Fran]

Yeah.

[Mark Vallis]

He's a kind guy. He's a loving guy, and he's a feeler. Right. Eric was in my alliance from day one. From day one. You know, So I saw Derek posted a video the other day, like, after the roundtable, after I like, jumped ship on voting for Johnny. I was never gonna vote Steven. I just lost someone in my alliance. Like, like losing Steven was a bummer.

[Fran]

Yeah.

[Mark Vallis]

You know, and then I voted for Tara. And then I was. They showed me having a conversation with Eric and Rob and Derek posted a video. He was like, it's them. It's both of them, you know, but, like, you gott understand, up to this point, I'd pushed my chips in on Eric.

[Rhea]

Yeah.

[Mark Vallis]

Like, what people don't understand is you cannot go into this game and not trust anyone. Yeah, you can at the beginning, but once you. The numbers start to dwindle, at some point you have to push your chips in on somebody. And I had pushed my chips in on Kristen and Eric.

[Rhea]

I was going to say, it seems like you're from who you're saying you formed alliances with. Really, you guys all stayed pretty intact all the way up till Steven.

[Mark Vallis]

Like, our. Our little group was pretty tight moving. It was me, Eric, Kristen and Steven. Like, I would say we Were really close. We worked with everybody. Like, I wasn't. I would work with Johnny. I would talk to Tara a lot. I was very close with Tara. She's a dear friend of mine now. Like, was working with Natalie, but, like, everyone has their, like, alliances they make. But if you don't establish 100% trust at some point and you're going through the game well, I don't trust any of you. People will be like, well, why not?

[Fran]

Yeah.

[Mark Vallis]

And that will turn on your ass really quick, you know? So you have to. You have to be open to pulling the chips back, but you need to pick your people and, you know, just pray to God that if you make it to the end that you're. That your inner compass has pointed you in the right direction. You know what I mean? Like, it's part of the game.

[Fran]

Yeah. We see Natalie apologize to Rob and Eric, and you're just. You can't help but laugh to yourself while you're watching. You're just like, she's apologizing to them and she has no idea. And they're like, yeah, it's all right.

[Rhea]

Did you listen to Dorinda on the podcast talk about how she's just like. She was like, it was an honor to be murdered by Rob. Like, I have butterflies every time I see him. Like, me, Maura, Natalie, like, they were like. She was like, we were never gonna turn on Rob. And it's just, they were enamored by him.

[Mark Vallis]

I gotta say, I love Dorindo. She's so sweet. But, you know, that's just not the case for me and for Kristen and stuff. Like, I'm on Dancing with the Stars. I'm around really nice looking people all the time. That means nothing to me, you know, literally nothing. So, like, I think it also takes away from how well he's actually played up to this point. You know, we're still, like, up to this point.

[Rhea]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mark Vallis]

He's smooth with it. He is really good at being your friend. And he's a. I would say, like, look, I say two things can be true at the same time, right? You can play traders and be a chess player and strategist. And, like, one thing Rob and I bonded on was games. We love to play games, right? That's like. Like actual board games or chess and stuff like that. Like, he would play chess with everyone. It wasn't just like, I know they showed him playing with Ron. They showed him playing with Lisa. He would play with everybody. I played with him. We would all play these games. You Know, So two things can be true. Like, he can be a great strategist and a game player, and yada, yada, yada. But he's also like. Like a really cool guy. Like, really cool guy. Two things can be true at the same time.

[Fran]

Yeah, that is. That is nice to hear, too, because I feel like when you watch a show like this and he's playing so well and he is making all these smart moves on top of other people being, you know, in a trans. With how he looks, but he is really playing strategically. Then it turns to people being like, he's just a really good liar. And it's like, okay, you can be really good at playing a game and also be a good person. Like Boston Rob. Yeah, I think Boston Rob is such a great game player, but he's a great person.

[Mark Vallis]

He's a great person.

[Fran]

It doesn't mean, like, the same thing.

[Mark Vallis]

Yeah, it totally doesn't. Have you seen Dylan's show he's made with Rob? It's called Everything's Competition. So Derek and I just did an episode with them. We played, like, minute to win it games. And like, the Survivor fan of me was like, this is cool. Yeah, Boston Robbie's a great person. He just knows strategy. He knows game, he knows moves. And there's a lot of new fans for the Traitors this year, same as there was a lot of new fans for Dancing with the Stars last year, which is amazing. But the game is called the Traitors, and it's also not the Traitors versus the Faithfuls. The Traitors are going to turn on each other. That's the whole point. Definition of traitor is someone who turns on a person, a country, an establishment. You know what I mean?

[Fran]

Literally, on anybody.

[Mark Vallis]

On anybody.

[Rhea]

That's why it's such a fantastic show when they do this celebrity version of it, because you get these reality stars like the Housewives and some of these other reality shows where their shows are solely based on their lives. They're used to being on reality tv where the drama comes from friends breaking up. Loyalty, disloyalty. So when you get the Housewives, their brain is like, oh, my God. Well, I've just been. They just went behind my back. Like, this is when I'm supposed to be angry. So it's like, it just makes it such a crazy dynamic is then you have the Housewives be like, well, where's the loyalty? And it's like, there's no loyalty in this game.

[Fran]

There's not.

[Mark Vallis]

There's no loyalty amongst these. That's an interesting Point. Have you watched the British Traders?

[Rhea]

No. No, I never.

[Fran]

I heard this season was insane too.

[Rhea]

Yes, I know, I know, I know.

[Mark Vallis]

Season two, UK binge. Watch that.

[Rhea]

Yeah.

[Fran]

Really?

[Mark Vallis]

Asap. I want you to DM me after watching.

[Fran]

I will.

[Mark Vallis]

I really like. And then season four.

[Fran]

Okay.

[Rhea]

This is. And I can. I'm excited for this. Cause I feel like I got my husband into traitors this season, which I'm excited. Like I was.

[Mark Vallis]

So.

[Fran]

You're gonna die.

[Rhea]

He'll love like that version.

[Fran]

So start on season two.

[Mark Vallis]

Start on season two. You can watch all of them. But like, if you wanna, like, get rocked season two and then season four, I say this. It's like you just brought up a really good point. Right. When you put people in the house that are all from the entertainment industry, they come from an industry of entertainment. So there are people in the castle that know the camera's on and we're doing the thing and we're doing the bit and we're making good tv. The reality is the game is good tv. Let it do the work.

[Fran]

Just play.

[Rhea]

Totally.

[Fran]

Yeah. Play the game.

[Mark Vallis]

Just play. It's good TV already. You know?

[Fran]

It is time to say goodbye to dry scratchy toilet paper in 2025 and hello to clean with perfectly moist, actually cleansing Good wipes. And that's why we're team Wet January and February and March and every other month this year. Because we're going to be the cleanest we ever been. Which means we're going to feel the best we ever have. So cheers to Wet January. Good Wipes is actually flushable, made with plant based fibers so they break down easily. Made for sensitive skin, made with clean ingredients and safe for sensitive skin because many other wipes cause irritation. But ours are extremely gentle, super soft, so they feel so much softer than other wipes. Amazing soft texture and no greasiness or weird film. And definitely better than dry scratchy toilet paper. Grab Good Wipes at Target or Walmart so you can upgrade your restroom routine. As a special offer for our chicks in the office listeners, Good Good Wipes is giving you your first pack for free. Buy any package in store, text them your receipt and get reimbursed almost immediately. For more details, head to good wipes.com Cito again, that's goodwipes.com Cito to snag a free pack of Good Wipes. I want to ask about Maura because love her. You know, we were big fans of Maura from Love island and she is such a big personality and so outspoken, hilarious, but I feel like on this show we're seeing a little bit less. She's a little bit more peeled back, you know, and we really only see her come into defense about Rob and really nothing else. I want to know what else was happening with. With Mora in the castle. If she was outspoken, was she in the conversations, what was going on there?

[Mark Vallis]

I mean, Mora is outspoken and she.

[Fran]

Is what we know.

[Mark Vallis]

Yeah, she has larger than life personality. And, you know, also you can tell by her outfit, she always looks fabulous. She's hilarious.

[Fran]

So funny.

[Mark Vallis]

I grew up in the uk, so I love the Irish. I have a lot of Irish friends. But, yeah, like, she was definitely doing more than that, you know, and like, she had opinions and. And she would, you know, she did a good job at, like, she was very explosive if you came for her, you know, which on one hand is good because it would. When there's more people. When there's more people, it would deter you from, like, wanting that smoke. But it could also look like, why are you so defensive?

[Rhea]

Yeah.

[Mark Vallis]

You know what I mean? She was just really funny. Like, she just would. She had this slogan. She would always be like, oh, I'm so good at this game. You know what I mean? Because we were just, you know, there's moments for everyone where you're just like. I'm sure the traitors too, where you're just. How do you. You just don't know how to navigate this stuff. They do a really good, great job at making it feel real, you know? But, yeah, she. She's great. I mean, I think there's just. There's a lot of conversations missing. You know, I wouldn't say what you're seeing is that was her whole game.

[Fran]

Which happens on every show, of course. Every show ever. I mean, even the ones we're huge fans of, Survivor and everything, like, they're just filming so much and it has to get cut down. Even though I say I would watch four hours of this show, like, I would watch.

[Mark Vallis]

I would too.

[Fran]

I would just watch surveillance footage of the entire castle.

[Mark Vallis]

It's funny. Cause Alan did an interview about the banquet, and I told you guys, I'm like, oh, there's a bit halfway through. Like, the banquet was great episode. It was fantastic. But when you were there, it was way more intense. There was so many other theories, like. Like, what did they say that we shared? It was the turkey, which we knew it wasn't. Right.

[Rhea]

It was. Even Steven, like, served two people, like, cutting the meat.

[Mark Vallis]

Poor Stephen, just being a gentleman.

[Rhea]

Cards on the table, you Kept saying.

[Fran]

You were like, guys, it's not the turkey. We're all eating the turkey. Yeah.

[Mark Vallis]

We'd called Tara Turkey Tara for days after that, you know, and then the cards was interesting. But I said, dude, they should just make everyone's mics, like, throw up the wide camera and play the whole thing.

[Rhea]

Yeah.

[Mark Vallis]

As a bonus footage.

[Fran]

Yeah, I would love that.

[Mark Vallis]

Me too. It was like we were exhausted by the end of it. We were just like, oh, it went on. It went on, I'm sure. And on.

[Rhea]

Especially if also, like, I'd imagine the argument over who gets the anecdote goes for way longer.

[Fran]

You're gonna.

[Rhea]

You're gonna fight for that for quite some time. Then they make a short. What was it like having Jam Jam yell out as he was kind of, like, being dragged out of the room.

[Mark Vallis]

I loved it. I loved it.

[Rhea]

It's kind of the first time we've seen that happen where they're like, it's this person.

[Mark Vallis]

Well, it raises the stakes, right? I've seen conflicting opinions about this online. Like, some people are like, I don't think that's fair that he got to yell out after he's been murdered. But he hadn't been murdered. He'd been cursed, and he was being dragged outside to be murdered. That was the whole point of the Executioner, you know, henchmen, whatever. Now imagine this. Imagine they'd have dragged him out, and he was like, it's Stephen. Right? Then everyone would have been, like, looking at Steven.

[Rhea]

Yeah.

[Mark Vallis]

Or if he was like, it's Mark, guys. It's Mark. What people don't. I don't think understand is that he had the right player. He got it with Lisa, but he had the wrong method. Now, if he had called out a different player, everyone would have probably been like. Cause it's a witch hunt, Right?

[Fran]

You know, so this is what I was saying. I was saying this because everyone was like, he shouldn't be able to yell at. I'm like, he didn't know.

[Mark Vallis]

Oh, I loved it.

[Fran]

He didn't know for sure it was Lisa. It's not like he. It's not like he was another traitor who was told, it's Lisa. He was just calling it out because that's what he thought. He could have called out any name. It just happened to be the one that wasn't traitor.

[Mark Vallis]

Exactly.

[Fran]

So it's like, really doesn't matter that he was allowed to call out a name. He could have said anybody.

[Mark Vallis]

That's what I love kind of about this new element, the, like, Public execution style, where everyone has to watch. It's like, yeah, you can say whatever you want. You might be wrong, but you also might be right.

[Fran]

Like Eric.

[Mark Vallis]

Yeah, he just. Oh, my poor Eric. The man with the magic ear.

[Fran]

The man with the magic ears and the eyes.

[Rhea]

The writing goes, the best was the handwriting. The best was like, I know this handwriting, it's Johnny.

[Mark Vallis]

What was the best? If you look at Johnny's handwriting on his tablet, it's gorgeous.

[Fran]

Yeah, yeah. No, looking at that handwriting, I was like, that's definitely not Johnny's handwriting.

[Mark Vallis]

Calligraphy.

[Rhea]

Like, this is not Johnny's handwriting.

[Mark Vallis]

Literally, it looked like a toddler wrote it. I was like, that's Rob's handling. No.

[Rhea]

Really was so funny. I mean, there's this. We're so obsessed with the show. There's so much to talk about. Last question I want to ask though is, and taking it back a little bit is because the beginning of the season so much was around Michael Rappaport and he's a big personality. The whole thing. Did it get to a point? Cuz it felt like this, watching where everyone was like, you know what? Not even really sure if he's a faithful or a traitor.

[Fran]

He's just gotta go.

[Mark Vallis]

I mean, yeah, like the consensus was he's either a bad faithful.

[Rhea]

Yeah.

[Mark Vallis]

Or like some wickedly genius weird traitor. Ish. Like, it was Rob C. Who said, like, he's either like the triple bluffing master traitor or like the worst faithful ever. You know, it was a lot. Yeah, it was a lot.

[Rhea]

Which is why I think at a certain point you're like, you know what, Michael?

[Mark Vallis]

Cause, you know, it's like another thing that I love about the show is that people don't get. It's not just the faithfuls working together. The faithfuls are trying to create relationships the best they can and gather the information they can, but the faithfuls kind of have to eat each other alive to get there. That's kind of of the part of the game, you know what I mean? So there's gonna be casualties along the way. Like, look, there's also an element of luck. Like, I was up for murder the first night and I was in the nine. And then when I watched it back, I was on the short list and because Donna had shortlisted Rob, I had a one in three chance of going home. That's luck. Like Ian going home first. That's just. It's lucky. So there are all these different variants of why it works, but yeah, like at some point, if it feels like it's not helping. Like, yeah, it's got. You got to cut it loose.

[Rhea]

Who were you most disappointed? Went early. Like, left early.

[Mark Vallis]

I mean, I was pretty. Pretty upset that Steven went. Yeah, we needed him. He was. He. Steven played well. Like, they didn't show as much as that alliance, you know? But I'm trying to think who else was kind of like a big bummer.

[Fran]

Like, seeing Rob Sego.

[Mark Vallis]

That. That's sucked. That really, really sucked as well.

[Rhea]

Because he would have been. I think he would have been pretty on it.

[Fran]

Yeah, he would have.

[Rhea]

Like, it made sense.

[Fran]

He.

[Rhea]

They. They killed him because I feel like he was really good friends.

[Mark Vallis]

Right. Like, have you seen Survivor players go the distance with as faithfuls? I don't think so.

[Rhea]

Not really, because I feel like they normally end up being traitors.

[Mark Vallis]

I think. I think Rob C. Had a target.

[Rhea]

Yeah.

[Mark Vallis]

And I seen on his interviews, he felt like Jam Jam had kind of put one on him. So it's really hard once you have that target to, like, because there's unanswered questions. Right.

[Rhea]

Like, if you're almost too good, too.

[Mark Vallis]

Yeah.

[Rhea]

Like, when he was. When he was like, I think there's a murder. A murder tonight in plain sight. Everyone was like, oh, my God, it's week two. How does this guy know this already?

[Mark Vallis]

Well, it's funny that in that moment, they didn't show. They kind of showed it, but they didn't. Like, I was in that room when that happened, and Candace had just poured a bowl of Skittles and was sharing them with me. So then I got. I went into full body sweat. I was like, I just got poisoned by fucking Skittles. No, no, no. Literally, I was like. You could see it. Like, my face goes like this. And Candice's like, these are regular Skittles. And I was just looking at her. Like, I ran into the bar, and I told, like, my alliance at the time, it was Eric. I have these in my notes. I think I put it in the thing. I was like, Candice, Kristen, Eric, Natalie. I told. I'm like, if I don't come back tomorrow, it's Candace. She's poisoned me with Skittles.

[Fran]

Imagine going because of Skittles. It's just like. That was like when Ek and sue drank the chow. You just can't. But in the moment, it's like, you. You just don't remember. You're like, oh, I'm having some Skittles.

[Mark Vallis]

Yeah. And then you're like, you just don't.

[Fran]

I can't share with anybody, like, even.

[Mark Vallis]

Kristen was my number one. My number one. And at the banquet, she poured me a drink, and I didn't drink. Drink it.

[Fran]

Fair. Fair.

[Mark Vallis]

I told her later. I was like, hey, that drink you poured, I just couldn't drink it.

[Rhea]

She was, like, sat there. I would have, like, I don't. I'd be. I would have been afraid to touch the food.

[Mark Vallis]

This chair with Candace, like, when Rob C. Kind of brought that up again, this is where luck plays into it. Right. Rob and Lisa took Rob C. Out. She got lucky.

[Rhea]

Yeah.

[Mark Vallis]

She wasn't even a part of that.

[Rhea]

Yeah.

[Mark Vallis]

Like, if they hadn't have done that, you know?

[Fran]

Right.

[Mark Vallis]

Who knows what have.

[Fran]

Right.

[Mark Vallis]

What would have happened? But also, I want to reiterate that the conga line was not random. That had been discussed a lot. Like, it wasn't, like.

[Fran]

Because it seems so. Which makes it funnier to be, like, random conga. It's hilarious.

[Mark Vallis]

Hilarious tv.

[Fran]

Yeah. Now, can you tease a little bit about the reunion? We saw that you guys filmed the reunion. We think that maybe housewife Lisa came out. What can you tease?

[Mark Vallis]

I mean, it's a reunion. Like, I'm new to this reunion.

[Fran]

Reunion.

[Mark Vallis]

This world.

[Rhea]

Andy Cohen reunion.

[Mark Vallis]

Yeah. Like, I came to. I did. The whole point of doing the show was I wanted to try something new. I love these shows. I wanted to make some new friends. Have a good time in the castle. It's not personal. We're playing a game called Traitors. You're gonna get banished, murdered, or win. We all know that. We all signed up for that.

[Fran]

Not everyone's gonna win.

[Mark Vallis]

Not everyone's gonna win.

[Fran]

Most will lose.

[Mark Vallis]

Most will lose. Right. So, you know, the reunion was interesting for me. Like, you know, when we were out there talking some of the game. Game stuff, I quickly realized I was like, oh, we're not talking about the game. So I just kind of.

[Rhea]

Yeah.

[Fran]

Sat back.

[Rhea]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that's. That's where the. That's the housewives territory right there. But it must be fun to kind of shift because you. You know, just finishing a massive Dancing with the Star season. What? That was so talked about. And then you get to be on Traders, where this is now so talked about, which is. Which is so different.

[Fran]

And it's.

[Rhea]

But it's so exciting because while this is all going on too, like, Whitney's on Broadway, which is unbelievable. How was she?

[Mark Vallis]

She was.

[Rhea]

I want to go see Somebody's Got Videos.

[Fran]

I know. We want to go. I'm seeing all the videos, and it's. So you're not Supposed to film and everyone.

[Mark Vallis]

The etiquette has gone to trash.

[Fran]

I'm part of it. You know what? This is annoying. They're not supposed to film. But the other part of me was like, she looks so good up there.

[Mark Vallis]

I'll say this, too. It's like a concert, right? You go to a concert and, like, when people post clips, like, it never hits as hard than when you're there. Like, go see the show. Go see it.

[Fran]

Oh. I mean, we went to Dancing with the Stars live on Sunday, and there was somebody sitting two rows in front of us who recorded the entire show.

[Rhea]

She obviously was. I was an older woman. She was pumped. But she sat like this the entire time.

[Fran]

I'm like, it's not like.

[Mark Vallis]

I get it. Like, film a couple things for your memories.

[Fran]

Oh, yeah. I take a quick thing, and then I put my phone down.

[Mark Vallis]

But why do you. You're never gonna watch it back. The audio's like this. Yeah, yeah. You're never gonna watch it back.

[Rhea]

And it's right. And then, like. And it's also. And I felt bad because it was an older woman, so it wasn't exactly. Like, she was a cinematographer. Like, it wasn't zoomed in.

[Fran]

Oh, the show's fantastic. It was really fantastic.

[Rhea]

It's so much fun to watch them all, like, in their element.

[Mark Vallis]

I saw there's a bit where Haley Bills and Ezra put the. And the other day, it was Rob Ra.

[Rhea]

Said. Ezra messaged me and said he did that for us.

[Fran]

Oh, you know what? Honestly, I appreciate that. It was probably for the whole crowd, but we screamed. We were like.

[Rhea]

We were like, oh, my God, yes.

[Mark Vallis]

I sent it to Rob. I was like, how's those rhinestone overalls looking?

[Rhea]

Like, serious.

[Fran]

Do you think he would do it? It.

[Mark Vallis]

I mean, I would love to see him. I think it'd be great. You know, I saw. It's funny. I. Now people are tagging me in these, like, videos of him from, like, I guess, back in the day and stuff. No, no, no.

[Fran]

Like, his.

[Mark Vallis]

His, like, Tik Tok before all. And I'm like, whoa. I was like, bro, explain yourself now. He was like, no, no, no, this is old. I was like, no, dude, I've seen way worse. We can work with this.

[Fran]

Totally.

[Rhea]

You're like, I. I see. See potential.

[Mark Vallis]

I see potential.

[Rhea]

I see potential.

[Mark Vallis]

You know?

[Rhea]

How are you feeling about, like, another season Dancing with the Stars is something you want to do or.

[Mark Vallis]

I mean, yeah, I'm okay. I'm open to it. You know, like, you know, there's this whole narrative of, like, I've talked about this before. Like, you know, I only come back for this, that, and the other. But I had a lot of injuries that I was dealing with. I've talked about this before. We have to get into all that. But, like, I've been really diligent about keeping them on track, mainly so that when my son wants to play ball and go out and do stuff, I can chase him around and do stuff. But, like, you know, we get banged up on that show. Yeah. And I've done 21 seasons now. Like.

[Fran]

Yeah, it's a lot.

[Mark Vallis]

It's a lot of work.

[Fran]

He's got to be hurting.

[Mark Vallis]

I know. Yeah. But I've been really diligent about all the right things, feeling better. It'll never be perfect. There'll always be things. You know, I'm 40 this year, you know, so, you know, I started doing the show when I was 21, you know.

[Fran]

Wow.

[Mark Vallis]

So I. But I'm open to it.

[Fran]

Yeah.

[Mark Vallis]

I'm up to. I had a blast last season, and.

[Rhea]

The world just keeps exploding. Everybody wants to do more stuff. I mean, we're getting Dance with the Stars con.

[Mark Vallis]

I know. We should do a panel.

[Fran]

Yeah, that's what we said.

[Rhea]

Music to our ears. We're talking about crazy how everyone. It's crazy how everyone thinks that.

[Fran]

Yes, we would. We're doing the cameras last time.

[Mark Vallis]

Oh, yeah.

[Fran]

It might be in the works.

[Mark Vallis]

Okay. Awesome. Awesome.

[Rhea]

And, like, the world's just exploding, so there's so much we hope you. You stay involved in as much as you want to. We do have to wrap up, sadly. But I do want to give you. You know what. What do you got coming up? Anything that you're working on you want people to know about?

[Mark Vallis]

A couple things in the pipe. Like, they're. I'm not ready to announce.

[Rhea]

Okay.

[Mark Vallis]

But just stay tuned, like, you know, finish the season of the Traders. It's great. You know, go support Dancing with Stars on tour, get ready for the next season. I'm sure it's gonna be great. I just love seeing between Traders and Dancing with the Stars. Just these new fan bases. Get into it. It's. At the end of the day, it's meant to bring you joy, happiness, bonding with your family and your friends and stuff, and it seems like it's doing that for the most part.

[Fran]

It gives us all something to talk about.

[Rhea]

Really does.

[Fran]

Yeah.

[Rhea]

Thank you so much.

[Mark Vallis]

Appreciate it.

[Fran]

All right, that wraps up today's episode of Ticks in the Office. Thank you so much for watching and listening. We love you guys so very much. Reminder, tickets are on sale for the tour. We want to see you there. We love you. You have a wonderful day. We'll talk to you on Friday. Yeah.

[Mark Vallis]

Chicks in the office long time listener, first time caller look at the charts who does it the best Two chicks getting paid in reality checks you can find them at the gym it's not even a flex last minute red carpet flew them out on the jet yeah, they're who you want to be they're always on your screen Two queens and they might be spilling royalty A lot of topics that are popping here to get into I know a show that you probably want to listen to well turn the heat up turn the beat up record the pod made a bag put their feet up the ones that leave no crumbs when they clean up who's the pod that they all want to meet up? Who turned the heat up Turn the beat up record the pod made a bag put their feet up the ones that leave no crumbs when they clean up who's the pod that they all want to meet up?

[Fran]

It.