Chief Change Officer Podcast Episode #193: Dr. Juliana Schroeder on AI and Human Communication

Host: Vince Chan
Guest: Dr. Juliana Schroeder, Associate Professor of Management of Organizations at UC Berkeley Haas School of Business
Release Date: February 22, 2025
Episode Title: AI is Changing How We Talk—Are You Ready?

Introduction

In episode #193 of the "Chief Change Officer" podcast, host Vince Chan engages in an insightful conversation with Dr. Juliana Schroeder, a distinguished psychologist and associate professor at UC Berkeley. The discussion delves deep into the intersection of artificial intelligence (AI), human psychology, and communication, exploring how AI technologies like virtual assistants and language models are reshaping our interactions and decision-making processes.

Guest Background and Expertise

Vince Chan opens the episode by introducing Dr. Schroeder, highlighting her extensive academic achievements, including two master's degrees and two PhDs. He recounts their meeting at Chicago Booth, where Dr. Schroeder served as his teaching assistant, fostering a long-standing professional relationship.

Dr. Juliana Schroeder shares her academic journey, emphasizing her passion for social sciences over hard science. She explains her focus on understanding how people think and feel, particularly through the lens of decision-making, negotiations, and persuasion. As an experimentalist, Dr. Schroeder conducts experiments to explore counterfactual scenarios, aiming to unravel the complexities of human behavior.

Exploring Mind Perception

At [05:40], Vince inquires about Dr. Schroeder's choice of research areas. She explains:

"We live in a social world... all of our society kind of rests on having this cooperative function with those that are around us. And that involves having to engage with other people effectively and productively."

Dr. Schroeder's research centers on mind perception—how we infer and understand the thoughts and feelings of others. She delves into the challenges of accurate mind reading, influenced by both top-down (beliefs and stereotypes) and bottom-up (specific interactions) processes. This dual approach helps elucidate how initial impressions are formed and subsequently adjusted through ongoing communication.

Power, Decision-Making, and AI

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on Dr. Schroeder's 2020 paper, "Power and Decision Making: New Directions for Research in the Age of Artificial Intelligence."

Vince Chan asks about the core arguments of the paper:

"We differentiate between the subjective and the objective sources of power... when people feel like they're more powerful because they're engaging with a virtual agent that's humanized, they're going to engage in more goal-oriented type behavior."

Dr. Schroeder elaborates on how virtual assistants like Siri and Alexa can create a subjective sense of power in users, potentially leading to more goal-oriented and instrumental behaviors. She discusses the concept of humanization of virtual agents—how making these assistants appear more human can amplify users' feelings of empowerment, which in turn affects their decision-making processes.

At [14:30], she notes:

"Voice to voice interaction is fundamentally humanizing. There's a lot more sophistication in terms of humanization now with AI like ChatGPT... they are essentially at the level where they are using language to the degree that a human would."

Dr. Schroeder emphasizes that the more human-like the interaction (e.g., voice to voice), the more it influences users' perceptions and behaviors, mirroring the effects of traditional power dynamics in human interactions.

Current Perspectives on AI's Impact

When asked if she continues her research in this evolving field, Dr. Schroeder responds:

"The theory would still hold that people would feel, when they have more power because they're engaging with a virtual agent that's humanized... But we have not tested it with some of the newer technology like ChatGPT."

She acknowledges the advancements in AI since her 2020 paper and expresses interest in exploring how modern technologies like ChatGPT fit into her existing framework of power dynamics and decision-making.

Vince Chan shares his personal experience with ChatGPT, highlighting its role as a colleague or advisor rather than a mere assistant, and touches upon the issue of confirmation bias.

"I'm very conscious about confirmation bias when I use ChatGPT... I'm aware of that, be mindful not to be distracted or get so carried away by that."

Dr. Schroeder concurs, suggesting that AI could be designed to balance power dynamics, potentially by allowing virtual agents to push back and prevent overconfidence in users.

Algorithm Aversion vs. Appreciation

At [23:39], the conversation shifts to algorithm aversion versus appreciation in decision-making. Dr. Schroeder discusses:

"There's a long line of literature on what we call algorithm aversion versus algorithm appreciation... People believe there should be a human decision-maker for high-stakes decisions."

Using the example of Google's automated hiring process, she illustrates how the lack of human oversight can lead to backlash, emphasizing the importance of human involvement in areas perceived as unfair or high-stakes. Conversely, in lower-stakes domains like music selection, people are more accepting of algorithm-driven decisions, showcasing a nuanced relationship with AI based on context and perceived impact.

Future of Human-Machine Interaction and Communication Skills

In the final segments, Vince and Dr. Schroeder explore the future of human-machine interaction and offer advice for professionals navigating this landscape.

Dr. Schroeder advises:

"People need to learn how to use technology to their advantage in communication settings... how do you engage with new technology in order to improve your abilities to communicate."

She underscores the importance of flexibility in communication modalities, advocating for the strategic use of different platforms (e.g., email, video chat) based on the context and complexity of the interaction. Additionally, she highlights the potential of communication tools like transcription and sentiment analysis to enhance clarity and emotional intelligence in professional settings, while also cautioning against distraction from overuse.

For MBA students and executives, the key takeaway is to adapt and integrate new technologies thoughtfully, leveraging their strengths to augment human communication rather than allowing them to overshadow or complicate interpersonal interactions.

Conclusion

The episode concludes with Dr. Schroeder emphasizing the evolving nature of human-AI interactions and the necessity for ongoing research to understand their psychological implications. Vince Chan wraps up by encouraging listeners to subscribe and engage with the "Chief Change Officer" community, fostering a space for continuous learning and growth.

Notable Quotes:

1. Dr. Juliana Schroeder ([05:40]):
   "We live in a social world... all of our society kind of rests on having this cooperative function with those that are around us."

2. Dr. Juliana Schroeder ([14:30]):
   "Voice to voice interaction is fundamentally humanizing... they are essentially at the level where they are using language to the degree that a human would."

3. Vince Chan ([20:35]):
   "I'm very conscious about confirmation bias when I use ChatGPT... be mindful not to be distracted or get so carried away by that."

4. Dr. Juliana Schroeder ([28:59]):
   "We want to use communication tools to service our interactions... there might be a cost on the back end to distraction."

Final Thoughts

Episode #193 of the "Chief Change Officer" podcast offers a profound exploration of how AI technologies are redefining human communication and decision-making. Through Dr. Juliana Schroeder's expertise, listeners gain valuable insights into the psychological underpinnings of human-AI interactions and practical advice on navigating this rapidly evolving landscape. As AI continues to integrate into various facets of life and work, understanding these dynamics becomes crucial for personal and professional growth.

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