Chief Change Officer Podcast Summary

Episode #202: Wayne Turmel - Hybrid Work: Strategy or Just a Game of Office Chicken?

Release Date: February 27, 2025

Introduction to the Episode

In Episode #202 of the Chief Change Officer podcast, host Vince Chan engages in a thought-provoking conversation with Wayne Turmel, a renowned expert in long distance leadership and communication. This episode delves into the evolving landscape of hybrid work models, exploring whether they represent strategic advancements or merely compromises in the modern workplace.

Wayne Turmel’s Background and Expertise

The episode opens with Vince introducing Wayne Turmel, who shares his extensive background in communication and leadership. Originally from Canada, Wayne transitioned from studying journalism and stage performance to becoming a leader in presentation skills and long distance leadership.

“I learned so early that how you communicate is how you're perceived. And so many people are subject matter experts... as consultants, my job is to help you communicate that to the world.”
– Wayne Turmel [04:26]

Wayne's journey eventually led him to merge his expertise with that of Kevin Eikenberry, resulting in three influential books that have established them as leaders in the field of remote and electronic communication.

Defining Long Distance Leadership

Vince and Wayne explore the concept of long distance leadership, emphasizing that it transcends mere physical separation of team members. Long distance leadership involves applying core leadership principles effectively, regardless of whether team members are co-located or dispersed.

“Long distance leadership is taking what we know makes good leaders and always has and applying it when you are not always or sometimes ever in the same physical space as the people that you lead.”
– Wayne Turmel [06:42]

Wayne illustrates that leadership has always existed in various forms, from historical figures like Genghis Khan to modern executives navigating virtual teams. The key is adapting leadership behaviors to the nuances introduced by technology-mediated communication.

Evolution of Long Distance Leadership

The conversation transitions to how long distance leadership has evolved, particularly in the wake of technological advancements and the COVID-19 pandemic. Wayne highlights that electronic communication tools have reshaped how leaders interact with their teams, making remote and hybrid work models more prevalent and technically feasible.

“What we have to do... is more mindful and intentional about making that happen.”
– Wayne Turmel [09:07]

He stresses the importance of intentionality in maintaining information flow and relationships, which are crucial for team cohesion and productivity in a remote setting.

Hybrid Work: Strategy vs. Compromise

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to dissecting hybrid work arrangements. Wayne critiques the current state of hybrid work, often treated as a compromise rather than a strategic approach. He argues that many organizations are settling for partial solutions without fully embracing the potential of hybrid models.

“Hybrid work in its most effective form... is more than just what work gets done where. It includes the concept of time. What work gets done, where and when.”
– Wayne Turmel [19:37]

Wayne advocates for a balanced mix of synchronous and asynchronous work, allowing flexibility in when and where employees perform their tasks. This approach ensures that deep, focused work can occur without the constraints of rigid office hours, while collaborative efforts benefit from scheduled in-person interactions.

Case Study: Amazon’s Return to Office Policy

Vince brings up Amazon's recent announcement to enforce a return-to-office (RTO) policy by 2025, igniting a debate on the future of remote work. Wayne offers his insights on how his leadership models could assist Amazon in navigating this transition.

“We know that people don't quit jobs, they quit bosses. We know that when leaders exhibit good coaching, good feedback, fairness... those teams tend to have less turnover and less chaos.”
– Wayne Turmel [23:37]

Wayne emphasizes the necessity of enhancing leadership practices to reduce turnover and improve employee satisfaction, especially in a high-demand environment like Amazon. He suggests that effective leadership can mitigate the challenges of a mandated return to the office by fostering better communication and trust among dispersed teams.

Cultural Perspectives on Remote Work

Vince shares his personal experiences with remote and hybrid work across different regions, highlighting how cultural and infrastructural differences influence perceptions and implementations of remote work policies.

“In Hong Kong, which is a dense, highly populated city, the concept of remote work doesn't carry the same weight. Many people just head back to the office.”
– Vince Chan [28:10]

Wayne concurs, noting that remote work dynamics vary globally. He points out that infrastructure, living conditions, and pre-existing remote work practices significantly impact how remote work is received and executed in different regions.

“We've always been able to work, make it work. I believe William Burroughs said, the future is here. It's just not widely distributed.”
– Wayne Turmel [29:58]

This perspective underscores the importance of contextualizing remote work strategies to fit the unique needs and circumstances of diverse workplaces.

Final Insights and Conclusion

As the episode wraps up, Wayne offers final thoughts on the ongoing transformation in work environments. He anticipates continued experimentation and adaptation as organizations strive to find the optimal balance between remote and in-office work.

“We're going through this period where the people who learned it during COVID got very surprised. A lot of senior leaders got very fooled.”
– Wayne Turmel [29:58]

Vince concludes by reflecting on the importance of adaptable leadership in these uncertain times, reinforcing the episode's central theme that effective change management and intentional leadership are key to thriving in the evolving workplace landscape.

Key Takeaways

• Long Distance Leadership: Effective leadership transcends physical boundaries through intentional communication and relationship-building.

• Hybrid Work Strategies: Successful hybrid models require thoughtful integration of when and where work is performed, balancing flexibility with collaboration.

• Leadership's Role in Retention: Good leadership practices are crucial in reducing turnover and maintaining team cohesion, especially in large organizations.

• Cultural and Regional Differences: Remote work strategies must be tailored to fit the cultural and infrastructural contexts of different regions.

• Ongoing Adaptation: The future of work remains fluid, with continuous adjustments needed as organizations navigate post-pandemic dynamics.

Notable Quotes

“Long distance leadership is taking what we know makes good leaders and always has and applying it when you are not always or sometimes ever in the same physical space as the people that you lead.”
– Wayne Turmel [06:42]

“Hybrid work in its most effective form... is more than just what work gets done where. It includes the concept of time. What work gets done, where and when.”
– Wayne Turmel [19:37]

“We know that people don't quit jobs, they quit bosses. We know that when leaders exhibit good coaching, good feedback, fairness... those teams tend to have less turnover and less chaos.”
– Wayne Turmel [23:37]

“We've always been able to work, make it work. I believe William Burroughs said, the future is here. It's just not widely distributed.”
– Wayne Turmel [29:58]

Conclusion

This episode of Chief Change Officer offers valuable insights into the complexities of hybrid work and long distance leadership. Wayne Turmel’s expertise provides a roadmap for leaders seeking to navigate the challenges of remote and hybrid team management, emphasizing the enduring principles of effective communication and intentional leadership. Whether you're a seasoned executive or an emerging leader, the strategies discussed in this episode can help you foster a productive and cohesive team in an ever-changing work environment.

If you enjoyed this summary, subscribe to the Chief Change Officer podcast on LinkedIn, Apple, Spotify, and YouTube to stay updated with the latest discussions on personal and professional transformation.