#231 From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part One

Summary

Chief Change Officer Podcast Summary Episode #231: From Hitchhiker to Head-Hunter: Gary Bremermann’s Wild Career Ride — Part One

Host: Vince Chan
Guest: Gary Bremermann
Release Date: March 14, 2025
Podcast Description:
In this episode of Chief Change Officer, Vince Chan delves into the unconventional career journey of Gary Bremermann, a seasoned recruiter and career coach based in Tokyo. Gary’s story is a testament to resilience, adaptability, and the pursuit of true passion amidst myriad challenges.

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1. Introduction to Gary Bremermann (02:02 - 04:55)

Vince Chan introduces Gary Bremermann, highlighting his extensive experience as a recruiter and career coach specializing in the Japan talent market. With 25 years dedicated to helping professionals navigate career changes, Gary’s multifaceted journey—from hitchhiking across North America to building and selling a global business—sets the stage for a compelling discussion on career transformation.

Notable Quote:

"This is my calling. I'm very fortunate to have found my dream job and my dream life, but it took me a long time to get there." — Gary Bremermann [04:55]

2. Early Life and Wanderlust (06:19 - 12:14)

Gary shares his childhood in San Diego, deeply influenced by a household filled with every issue of National Geographic since 1888. This early exposure ignited his passion for exploration and understanding diverse cultures. At 18, struggling in his first year of university, Gary made the bold decision to drop out and embark on a hitchhiking adventure across the United States to Newfoundland. This journey was not just a physical trek but a formative experience in communication and resilience.

Notable Quote:

"I learned how to talk to people from all walks of life... all over the country, people would pick me up. Very kind people had some few rough experiences, but... I learned how to communicate with people who were very different from me." — Gary Bremermann [10:09]

3. Navigating Financial Constraints and Building Resilience (12:39 - 16:16)

Without a substantial financial cushion, Gary relied on his resourcefulness and the kindness of strangers. Carrying only a tent and backpack, he slept wherever possible and took on part-time jobs to sustain his travels. Notably, Gary spent three weeks with a former Amish family in Pennsylvania, experiencing a lifestyle starkly different from his own. These interactions honed his ability to connect with diverse individuals, a skill that would later become invaluable in his recruitment and coaching career.

Notable Quote:

"People that didn't have a lot of money were very generous... I was exposed to a lot of different types of people and experiences." — Gary Bremermann [12:53]

4. Academic Struggles and Further Exploration (16:28 - 21:48)

After his initial foray into higher education, Gary returned to academia following his extensive travels. He completed his graduate degree and ventured into entrepreneurship, founding a business exporting American consumer goods to Japan, Korea, and Europe. Despite initial successes, the relentless pressure and expansion led to severe burnout, serving as a critical turning point in his life.

Notable Quote:

"I realized that the business was crushing me. I had expanded the business... I worked around the clock. I never took vacations. And I experienced burnout." — Gary Bremermann [19:57]

5. Finding His True Calling and the Role of Coaching (20:01 - 24:07)

Recognizing the unsustainable nature of his entrepreneurial pursuits, Gary sought the help of a coach who profoundly impacted his perspective. This mentorship enabled him to sell his struggling business and pivot towards a career that aligned with his true passions—helping others find meaningful and fulfilling work. Gary emphasizes the transformative power of coaching, both as a beneficiary and as a coach himself.

Notable Quote:

"My coach saved my life. He really helped me to get clarity on what I was doing, why I was doing it, showed me that there were alternatives, and then helped guide me through the sale of my business." — Gary Bremermann [20:01]

6. Evolving Relationship with Financial Success (24:39 - 33:29)

Vince engages Gary in a discussion about the shifting nature of financial aspirations across generations. While Gary once equated financial success with entrepreneurial triumphs and extensive revenue streams, his perspective evolved to value alignment with personal passions and meaningful impact over mere monetary gain. He now views money as a tool to expand his influence, provide stability, and help others, rather than the primary goal.

Notable Quote:

"I'm never going to chase money for money's own sake. I want to do something that's aligned with my innate skills. I want to be doing something where I feel like it's aligned with my true self." — Gary Bremermann [24:39]

7. Advice for Younger Generations (30:19 - 33:29)

Reflecting on his journey, Gary advises younger professionals to balance ambition with self-awareness. He cautions against equating personal worth with financial achievements and emphasizes the importance of finding work that aligns with one’s passions and strengths. Gary underscores the significance of mentorship and coaching in navigating career paths and achieving holistic success.

Notable Quote:

"It's okay to not be super successful or it's okay to not be a millionaire or help people find work and a lifestyle that's in alignment with their interests and their needs and their passions." — Gary Bremermann [30:19]

8. Conclusion and Teaser for Part Two (33:29 - 34:47)

Vince wraps up the episode by summarizing Gary’s transformative journey from a restless traveler to a successful career coach. He teases the next part of the series, where Gary will delve into his seven rules of career clarity and address significant hiring challenges in Japan, including ageism and the fear of change.

Closing Quote:

"How do you find your own career clarity? In Part two, Gary breaks down his seven rules of career clarity and tackles the biggest hiring challenges in Japan." — Vince Chen [33:29]

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Key Takeaways

1. Resilience Through Adversity: Gary’s early life choices, including dropping out of university and hitchhiking across continents, cultivated resilience and adaptability—crucial traits for career transformation.

2. The Power of Communication: Engaging with diverse individuals during his travels enhanced Gary’s communication skills, enabling him to connect with a wide range of professionals in his coaching practice.

3. Redefining Success: Transitioning from chasing financial success to seeking alignment with personal passions highlights the importance of intrinsic motivation over extrinsic rewards.

4. Impact of Coaching: Gary’s experience underscores the transformative impact that coaching can have on personal and professional growth, advocating for the value of mentorship.

5. Generational Perspectives on Wealth: The episode explores the differing attitudes towards financial success across generations, emphasizing the need for a balanced approach to ambition and personal fulfillment.

Notable Quotes

• Gary Bremermann [04:55]: "This is my calling. I'm very fortunate to have found my dream job and my dream life, but it took me a long time to get there."

• Gary Bremermann [10:09]: "I learned how to talk to people from all walks of life... all over the country, people would pick me up. Very kind people had some few rough experiences, but... I learned how to communicate with people who were very different from me."

• Gary Bremermann [20:01]: "My coach saved my life. He really helped me to get clarity on what I was doing, why I was doing it, showed me that there were alternatives, and then helped guide me through the sale of my business."

• Gary Bremermann [24:39]: "I'm never going to chase money for money's own sake. I want to do something that's aligned with my innate skills. I want to be doing something where I feel like it's aligned with my true self."

• Gary Bremermann [30:19]: "It's okay to not be super successful or it's okay to not be a millionaire or help people find work and a lifestyle that's in alignment with their interests and their needs and their passions."

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Conclusion

This episode provides an inspiring look into Gary Bremermann’s non-linear career path, emphasizing the significance of personal growth, authentic alignment with one’s passions, and the essential role of mentorship. Listeners are encouraged to reflect on their own career journeys and consider the profound impact of aligning professional pursuits with personal values and strengths.

Stay Tuned:
Don’t miss Part Two of Gary Bremermann’s story, where he unveils his seven rules of career clarity and addresses the pressing hiring challenges in Japan. Subscribe to Chief Change Officer on LinkedIn, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube to continue your journey of outgrowing yourself.

Transcript

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[Rhea]

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[Gary]

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[Vince Chen]

Hi everyone. Welcome to our show. Chief Change Officer, I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change, progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today, we are diving into career transformation with Gary Berman. Gary is a recruiter, career coach and Japan talent market expert who has spent 25 years helping professionals navigate change. But his own journey wasn't a straight line. Gary hitchhiked across North America, dropped out of college two times, built a global business and burned out before finally finding his true calling. In this two part series, we'll explore how he discovered his passion for coaching, the seven rules of career, clarity, and the harsh realities of Japan's talent market, including ageism and the fear of change. Whether you're rethinking your career, hiring talent, or just wondering what's next, the series will change the way you see work. Let's get started. Gary Good afternoon to you welcome to the show. Welcome to Chief Change Officer.

[Gary]

Thanks for having me, Vance. It's a pleasure to be here.

[Vince Chen]

Gary and I have a mutual friend, also happens to be a podcast guest. And now it's like a snowball effect. More and more people reaching out to be on the show. But I'm still very mindful about finding the right fit. And anyone listening to this episode will see that Gary is exactly that. I'll let him share his story, his ideas, his hindsights, insights and foresights. But first, Gary, tell us a bit about yourself. What's your journey been like? Give us all the juice and then we'll dive into different elements and unpack some of your wisdom and intelligence.

[Gary]

All right, thank you. I guess we'll start with where I'm at now. So I'm currently residing in Tokyo. I've been here for 25 years and I'm a recruiter and a career coach. And I've been recruiting for 23 years and I've been career coaching for a decade. And I didn't find my calling in life until my mid-30s. So I've been. This is my calling. I'm very fortunate to have found my dream job and my dream life, but it took me a long time to get there, so I wanted to share with you part of my story today. And so I recruit advertising and marketing professionals. I career coach for bilingual professionals in Japan from all different industries, all ages, different people with different stories. And I find a lot of similarities and a lot of commonalities. And one thing I did is I've written an ebook called seven Steps to Career Clarity. And it's a seven step process that helps people think about who they are, what they're good at, and what they want to do with their life. So I've written that ebook and I'm here to help people find work they love. And I help companies build teams of talented individuals. And in my coaching practice, it's helping people accelerate their career growth and find more joy in the work they do.

[Vince Chen]

You are in Tokyo now, one of the dream destinations for so many people, whether for travel, work, or even living. What brought you there? It might seem like a simple question, but I feel like there's a bigger story behind it. Let's trace back. Where are you originally from and how did your journey lead you from one place to another, eventually landing you in Tokyo?

[Gary]

So it goes way back. And I was born and raised in San Diego and I was very fortunate to grow up in a house that had a copy of every single National Geographic magazine ever published, and it started in 1888. So in my house, we had a wall that had every National Geographic from. And I would, on a rainy day as a young boy, I would pull issues off the shelf and read through them and get super excited about what's out there, what's out there in the world. And that's really what started to lead me to Tokyo, was wanting to explore the world. So that was the start of my wanting to go places and see things and do things. I first came to Tokyo in 1985, but I've lived here now a total of about 30 years. So I've been back and forth between California and Tokyo.

[Vince Chen]

Before social media, before Instagram made Picture Perfect Moments so accessible, you were already living with the whole world in front of you. As a kid, you were constantly on the move. So can I say you were a world traveler from the start, in my.

[Gary]

Mind for sure, yeah. And it was definitely very analog. I grew up with black and white tv, no Internet, and now all those National Geographics are on the Internet or at it. For a time there it was on a CD rom, but back then it was analog and it was fantastic.

[Vince Chen]

Before moving to Asia, you had quite a journey, especially in North America. Tell us about that. What was your experience like?

[Gary]

So, yeah, I was talking about how it took me a long time to find my calling in life in my mid-30s. And as I started working on my career, coaching practice, and working with other people to help them find their own callings, I realized that you can find clues from your early life that inform or give you ideas about what you can do to find your calling. And so when I started doing the work on myself, I looked back and I realized there were some life experiences in my early days that really informed what I'm doing now and why I enjoy what I'm doing now so much. So the first one was that National Geographic story, but another one was when I was 18 years old. I was in university for my first year in university, and I struggled a lot to get to the point where I found my calling. And I was in my first year in college and I was struggling and I quit. I dropped out and I had that wonderlust or that wanting to visit new places because National Geographic also covered places within the U.S. or within North America. So I dropped out of university at. I was 18 years old at the time. And I hitchhiked from Santa Barbara, California to Newfoundland.

[Vince Chen]

Wow.

[Gary]

And it wasn't in a straight line, so I hitchhiked all over the United States and at Newfoundland's an island. And I was, I caught a ride with someone who put their car on a ferry. So I technically hitchhiked to an island. And then I took the train across Canada, the Canadian rail train, and then hitchhiked back from Vancouver back to Santa Barbara. And one thing I learned along the way, everyone along the way said, gary, don't be stupid, go back to school, get an education and then you can do whatever you want. Because I had really determined to quit school. But the other thing looking back in terms of how it informed my career choices is, or the thing that I got from it was I learned how to talk to people from all walks of life. Young, old, men, women. All over the country people would pick me up. Very kind people had some few rough experiences, but at a very early age I learned how to communicate with people who were very different from me. So that was one of my life forming experiences.

[Vince Chen]

Even within North America, you've experienced life across different states, different time zones and completely different cultures. East coast, west coast, Midwest, you've seen it all. And then there's Canada. A mutual friend once mentioned that some of his friends wanted to move from the US to Canada, thinking it would be the same. And he said, no, Canada is not just another version of the U.S. there are a lot of differences, a lot of nuances. You've learned that firsthand, didn't you? And not just from books, but from real life experience. You mentioned struggling in school at one point, but you did go back, right?

[Gary]

Yes, I eventually did. And that was a good decision. And you know what's funny, Vince, is that a lot of people in my world don't know about my hitchhiking experience. It's not something that I share with everyone. So if anyone's listening to this that's known me for quite a while, they might not know that I had that grand hitchhiking adventure. But it was a really life forming experience.

[Vince Chen]

How did you support yourself financially along the way? What kind of work did you do to keep things moving while navigating your journey?

[Steve]

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[Gary]

Oh, oh, oh. O'reilly Check engine light on. Take the guesswork out of your check engine light with O'Reilly Varascan. It's free and provides a report with solutions based on over 650 million vehicle scans verified by ASE certified master technicians. And if you need help, we can recommend a shop for you. Ask for O'Reilly Veriscan today. O'Reilly Auto Parts. Yeah, in terms of making the trip happen, I had very little money. I did have some cash on me, but I carried a tent and a backpack and I would sleep wherever I could. But also a lot of kind people took me in and they invited me to stay at their house. Some of them had me do part time jobs cleaning the yard or something to make some extra cash before I moved to the next town or went down the road. And one of the great experiences I had is I was picked up by a gentleman north of Washington, D.C. and his family lived in the Amish country in southern Pennsylvania, southwest Pennsylvania. And he had left the Amish community, but he still lived within the Amish community. And I ended up staying with that family for three weeks. And it was talk about another world. You've seen the movie Witness, perhaps, or seen a documentary on the Amish country. I went to an island in the Chesapeake Bay where they speak a very unusual dialect of English. So you're right, North America or the US Is so diverse. There's so many diverse cultures and so many diverse places. And as you mentioned, I was learning about myself, but I was learning so much from other people. They were sharing their stories with me and I could see how people were living. I, a very nice couple picked me up in Tennessee and they invited me to stay with them. And they worked in a pig slaughterhouse. They would share with me about the work that they did. I had a couple who were clearly very financially challenged and they picked me up and they offered me cash so that I could buy food for myself. So people that didn't have a lot of money who were very generous. So at 18, I was exposed to a lot of different type of people and a different type of experience. Experiences. But now as a recruiter and career coach, I'm also talking to different people all the time, every day. And I think having had that experience at a early stage in my life helped me to become the person that I am now.

[Vince Chen]

You really put yourself out there fully immersed, no safety net. Would it be fair to say you were baptized by fire?

[Gary]

Yeah. Yeah. And And I feel grateful that I didn't have any terrible experiences. I ended up in some rough spots, but I was able to get myself out of them. I actually dropped out of university twice. Oh, and this is another thing not a lot of people know about me, But I went back to school and I lasted a couple years, and I dropped out again.

[Vince Chen]

You went back to school, finished, and in your 20s, you were still young, figuring things out. But as you mentioned, you didn't find your calling until your 30s, maybe even mid-30s. So what happened in those 10 years? Were you still searching for your real self? Were you trying different things proactively or just going with the flow? Looking back, what was that phase of your life really about?

[Gary]

Thinking I would never go back. Frustrated with the system and going through my own personal challenges. And I dropped out in that time. I. I was 20, and I traveled around the world. So I traveled around the world, and that's when I first visited Japan. And again, that was similar to my hitchhiking stories. And not only was it different types of people within North America, it was different types of people all over the place. So I just wanted to throw that in there because I dropped out twice. But I did graduate. And then I came and lived in Japan for a while. And I was a young man living in Japan. And at the time, the Japanese economy was really booming and growing fast. And it was the bubble years, and it was very dynamic time to be here. And then I went back to the United States and got a graduate degree. So after dropping out twice from university, I ended up going to grad school and getting a graduate degree. And then the biggest thing that happened to me in that decade, before I found my calling, was I graduated from university from the grad school and started my own business. And that was 10 years of heaven and hell. Great things happened. It was a great challenge, but it was also the business was crushing me. I had gotten into business because of a very strong desire to be financially successful, make a lot of money. Richard Branson was one of my childhood heroes. I read books about him, and I thought he was so cool. And I thought, I want to be Richard Branson. I want to be. At the time, it was multimillionaire. Now he's a billionaire and do diverse fund businesses. So I started a company in the United States, and I operated that company for nine and a half, 10 years. And in my last year, I realized that the business was crushing me. I had expanded the business. We had an office in London. I was based in California, moved the Office from San Diego to Los Angeles and an office in Tokyo. And I worked around the clock. I never took vacations. And I experienced burnout. And that was a huge turning point in my life.

[Vince Chen]

You had a business back then, didn't you?

[Gary]

I had a business where I was exporting consumer goods. American style, American culture goods. It started out in exporting it to Japan because they had connections and an interest in Japan expanded into Korea and then expanded into Europe. And it was things like apparel, sporting goods, health and beauty products. And so I was an intermediary between manufacturers and customers in Asia and Europe. It was exciting, but it was. It was so hard in some ways. And the reality was I wasn't that interested in consumer goods. I wasn't that interested in fashion. I love sports. But it was just. I was doing it for the money. Also for the freedom. Yeah, I've been an entrepreneur all my life. Also the. The freedom aspect of it. But when you're a slave to your business, you're not free. And so I was very fortunate. My. My company was acquired right before it crushed me. Was it burnout stage? And at that time, I engaged a coach. So I had a coach. And I tell my coach at that time that he saved my life. And I mean it. He was. He really helped me to get clarity on what I was doing, why I was doing it, showed me that there were alternatives, and then help guide me through the sale of my business. So it was a real talk about change. It was a real turning point for me. So I sold my business and decided to move back to Japan.

[Vince Chen]

So this is it. You wanted change. You wanted a different lifestyle, so you took a step back. You exited financially from that business. Also brought in someone to help you figure out your next chapter. Before we get into your life in Japan and you're calling now, I want to go back to something you mentioned. Financial success. You had it before and you still have a strong drive for it. And let's be honest, no one would say they don't like money. We all need it. If you ask me, would you want your podcast show to be financially successful? Of course I would say yes. But not because I want to buy a Ferrari or a big house. For me, financial success means I can expand my impact, do more, provide stability for myself and for my partner. Money itself isn't a problem. It's not something to feel guilty about. But at the same time, when chasing money becomes the sole focus, only focus, even in our own businesses, can be harmful. Now, looking back, your perspective on financial success, has clearly evolved. You're still running a sustainable business. You're still making good money. But how has your relationship with money changed? Before, it was about chasing the number. Now you're still mindful of revenue and profit, but with a different mindset. What shifted for you and how did that change actually happen?

[Steve]

Did you know that skin care can start in the laundry room? All freeclear is the number one laundry detergent brand recommended by dermatologists at allergists and pediatricians for sensitive skin. Allfreeclear is 100% free of dyes and perfumes. It provides an effective clean that's gentle on skin while removing impurities like dirt and body oil without leaving irritating residues. Plus, all free clear liquid is safer choice certified by the US EPA for a clean you can feel good about. All you need is All Free clear?

[Gary]

Yeah, that's a great question. Was I had that experience and I said, I'm never going to chase money for money's own sake. I want to do something that's aligned with my innate skills. I want to do something that I can add skills or learn and do and be challenged and try. But I Part of why I feel like I found my calling is that I'm helping others. And that's a story that I didn't throw in the early life stories, but I had an experience where the best job I ever had when I was a young man was after I'd returned from my world travels. I worked in a retail store and I worked in a retail store in Santa Barbara that was called Pacific Traveler Supply. And it was one of the very first stores that was a retail store that was specifically for people who travel. And as I mentioned, I traveled all over and I knew a lot about traveling. And we sold travel goods, travel books and maps, and people would come into the store and I would help them choose the right map, the right travel book, and the right travel gear for the kind of travel that they like to do. And I realized that how much joy I got from helping other people on their own journeys. Sure. And it sounds like I'm making this story up to align with what I'm doing now. But looking back, I love that job so much. And I would have done it for free. I was very young at the time. I need the money to finish my college education. And I would wake up in the morning super excited about going to that job. It was pure joy. And so I had that memory of what it's like to have a job, get paid for it, but be doing something that's helping other people and that's aligned with something I'm passionate about. And so when I had that experience with my business, almost crushing me, as my next phase in life, I'm going to be doing something where I get paid decently, make good money, have the opportunity as an entrepreneur, but also do something that's really a helping others and aligned with my strengths. And so that kind of ties back to, with the ability to talk to different people. And so money was more of a side effect. Of course, I'm very, as a business person, I'm very financially minded and keep an eye on cash flow and revenues and profits. But it's really being able to do something where I feel like it's aligned with my true self and I feel blessed to be able to be doing that.

[Vince Chen]

Not sure if you saw this, but there was a survey. Some organization published results about financial success across different generations. They asked baby boomers, Gen X, millennials and Gen Z what they think it takes to be financially successful and this went viral. Because of Gen Z's response, their expectation on annual salary is at least US$600,000 a year.

[Gary]

Oh, that. Yes. Oh my gosh. Yeah.

[Vince Chen]

I am a Gen X. So when I saw that, I had to take a step back and that's why so many people started debating it. Now, my question isn't about disputing the number itself. It's just a data point. And honestly, I'm not sure how they even conducted the survey. I tend to question the analytics and assumptions behind these things. Just assuming the number is reasonably representative does reflect something interesting. It seems like younger workers, especially those just starting out, have a huge appetite for financial success. Meanwhile, those who are more established, who's been through it, so to speak, tend to have a different perspective. Of course, when we are young, we all want to prove ourselves. We want to make money, be successful. And you were no different. You once chased financial success, but now you not only have that experience, you also help people figure out their own career paths, whether they stay in a corporation or transition into entrepreneurship, both of which come with financial shifts. So after everything you've learned, what does financial success actually mean to you now? And if you were advising younger people, knowing what you know now, what would you tell them about what really matters when it comes to money and success?

[Gary]

Yeah, that's a tough question. Because these drivers for when you're a young person setting out on your early stages of your career, and if you're young and hungry and motivated and you want to go out and make an impact and do something big. And I had that bug. And it may have been because I read about Richard Branson that I was just bound and determined. Now maybe it's Elon Musk. Young people who are ambitious may want to be like Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos or whoever, but then you go. And not everybody's cut out to do that. And not everyone can achieve that kind of success. And then it's. As you mature, you start to. And maybe it's. Realize what it takes to make a living. And a living is the. The basic fundamental things for life and then having some extra money to enjoy your life and then having money to put away for your retirement or whatever. But I find with people when I'm working as a career coach that maybe their parents or their generation has put expectations on them and they go to the best schools and they work for the best companies, or they go get their MBA at a top 20B school and they spend their time and energy chasing fortune or fame or status because they think that's the right thing to do and that's the measure of your value. And I recall as. When I had my business in the 90s and I was. I.

[Vince Chen]

The.

[Gary]

The business was my identity. That was it. And if the business did well, I was doing well. And if the business wasn't doing well, then I wasn't doing well as. As a person. And I think being able to step away with that comes with maturity. But also I really give a lot of value to my coach who, because I had someone to it. It's lonely being an entrepreneur, but I had someone to. To talk to about it. And so I had this coach and he, as I mentioned, he saved my life. And I was like, I don't think I could ever do what he does as a coach. I had so much respect and admiration from him. And then it took me another 15 years to get to the point where I put my coaching shingle out, where I felt confident enough to be a coach, to help people see things from a different angle, to help people understand that it's okay to not be super successful or it's okay to not be a millionaire or help people find work and a lifestyle that's in alignment with their interests and their needs and their passions. So it's been a long journey, it's been rough at times, and it's still not always smooth sailing, even at this stage in my life. But I really feel like I found a place.

[Vince Chen]

That'S the end for today. We've explored Gary's unconventional journey from hitchhiking across North America to building a global business, burning out, and finally discovering his real and true calling as a career coach. But the real question is, how do you find your own career clarity? In Part two, Gary breaks down his seven rules of career clarity and tackles the biggest hiring challenges in Japan, from ageism to the fear of change. Don't miss it. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, Leave us top rated reviews, check out our website and follow me on social media. I'm this is Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

[Steve]

Did you know that skincare can start in the laundry room? Allfreeclear is the number one laundry detergent brand recommended by dermatologists, allergists and pediatricians for sensitive skin. All Freeclear is 100% free of dyes and perfumes. It provides an effective clean as gentle on skin while removing impurities like dirt and body oil without leaving irritating residues. Plus, all free clear liquid is safer choice certified by the US EPA for a clean you can feel good about. All you need is all free clear.