TurboTax Representative (6:04)

Absolutely. And be creative in your own head as you're thinking what you're good at. That I really encourage people too. You might not have seen that about yourself, but she did same thing for me. I didn't see that in myself. Other people said, oh, you could do this. Having conversations with other people that ask them, what do you think I'm good at? Is really interesting. You really will learn a lot about yourself. It's hard when we're in our own head. One, we might not see our skills. Two, something that other people think is really valuable that we could do. For us, it may be second nature. We don't even think of it as a skill. It's just who we are. So really cool to look at it that way. She saw something in you you might not have seen. I had the same situation when someone saw something in me. So for your listeners, maybe get an outside opinion, figure out what else you might be good at that you don't even see.

Vince Chen (6:59)

So you've moved into technology, built a new version of yourself, and now you're out there as a solo entrepreneur, as an author, as a speaker. It's amazing to see how your career has evolved. As we're talking about transitions and career paths, resumes often come up. Traditionally, resume is seen as an advertisement, a highlight reel of achievements. But you introduced me to the concept of a reverse resume. Could you walk us through what that is and how it Might help those who are considering a change or currently navigating a transition. I think it could be a powerful tool to help open up minds and see new possibilities.

TurboTax Representative (8:06)

Yeah. So I came up with this concept a few years ago, and I think it's super valuable for anybody who's in the middle of a change or who's just looking at what skills they have or what their life looks like. Sometimes we get really frustrated and we think, can I even keep going? What is my next thing? I'm tired, I'm exhausted, I'm anxious. That anxiety and stress from working all the time. And what I have people do is to draw a line across a piece of paper and then put little dots. 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 10 dots across that line. So turn your paper sideways and put 10 dots across that line so it looks like a timeline. And then I call that your lifetime timeline. And you can go and put all the things that you mentioned, all your achievements on the top there and about the year. So if that's 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, however old you are with the stuff that you've done, your achievements on the top, the things that you would find on your resume, your LinkedIn, wherever you keep your CV. So you put that across the top and that's. You got this award and you took this, you got this degree and you have the certification, the jobs you've held, all of that. The good stuff you're proud of is on the top. And then I ask people to go down below the line and put down things that you have overcome. And this could be anything. This could be raising a child with a disability. This could be a death of a loved one. This could be being raised in a your situation. This could be an accident you overcame or an illness you overcame, or if you're later in life like me, this could be the divorce or the getting fired or all that other stuff that you have gotten through, the big challenges you face. You put those down below and then that's your reverse resume, what I call your reverse resume. Those are the things. The down below the lines stuff is what makes you who you are. The. The top stuff is your accolades. That's great. That's what you're doing. Down below is who you're being. So that's your reverse resume shows you all you've overcome and all of those things that you have managed through. And I always tell people there's hidden gems in there that can tell you who you really are, what you're made of, and who you are as a person. And that reverse resume is really important because that tells you what you're made of. And so when I'm hiring someone, sometimes they'll say what's something you've overcome, something you've some challenge that you have managed through that piece of who you are is really a big part of the strength that you bring to the table. So every time when you look at it online like this, you can see the above the line and the below the line. And if you draw a line from one to the other, it's like this up and down, like an echocardiogram, like it's your heartbeat and life is all these ups and downs. And that bottom part is really important to figure out who you are and what you have to offer. That's becoming more resilient. Every time you're back up over that line, that's when you become more resilient.

Vince Chen (11:24)

Yes, this isn't just a single page. It's more like a notebook, something dynamic that we keep updating. It can serve as a reminder, especially in those moments when we are feeling down, discouraged or unsure as entrepreneurs. There's always something happening, some challenge or setback. But when you can look back at your progress, it's a powerful reminder that you've overcome so much. It's just another bump in the road, not a showstopper. Just keep moving forward. Don't let it derail you.

TurboTax Representative (12:11)

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TurboTax Representative (14:20)

And the cool part about it is you can see all your achievements. That's if you keep this piece of paper. You can see all your achievements above. You can see all you've overcome below. And no one came. No one has a blank resume above and below. We have stuff above and below that we need to be, not just acceptance of that this is who we are, but we should be proud of. We've gotten through these things. You should be as proud that you've gotten the reverse resume, the stuff you've gotten through, as much as you have the stuff that you have achieved. So it's both pieces of it. And the best part about this, Vince, is there, you're on a dot on that right now. So however old you are, you put that dot on the there, on that line, the line with the I'm, I'm between the 50 and the 60 right there. I can put my dot there. And then the magic of this, on those tough days that you mentioned and. Or if you're in the middle of a reinvention on those tough days, you can see that there's a dot and then there's all this blank space ahead. All that blank space. But you're going to decide what goes in there and all that blank space ahead. You could be something different. You could have more above. There's going to be more below, unfortunately, because that's life. But you can see all the blank space ahead and start to imagine what might go there.

Vince Chen (15:37)

Exactly. It's like you said, a mix of all your past achievements and challenges, marking different points in time. But the other side is blank, representing the future, open for you to shape. It's all about how you want to connect those thoughts and create your path forward.

TurboTax Representative (16:05)

Yeah, it's how you want your next chapter to be. I always say it's okay to not be okay. We all have tough times. It's okay to not be okay, but it's not okay to stay that way. So if you're one of those down moments. You got to figure out how to get yourself back up over that line, back into the happy part of the resume up there instead of the top part of the resume. Okay to not be okay, but it's not okay to stay that way. And if you look at all that blank space ahead, your next chapter could be your best chapter. You just don't know. It gives hope and optimism. Like when you put that dot on the line all those years, all that blank space ahead. If it was a book, it's all the empty pages. You are in control of what's going to go there, more so than your spouse or where you live or your children or your boss. Like, you decide the words and the language and how you're going to feel about things going forward. So that blank space ahead is where you can one imagine what might go there? And you're responsible for putting stuff there that you like and making it successful. You got to get back up over that line. Okay not to be okay, not okay to stay that way. It's your responsibility to make the next chapter something better.

Vince Chen (17:25)

Is that the successful timeline you mentioned to me before?

TurboTax Representative (17:30)

Yeah, it's how to look at success. And I call it your life, your lifetime timeline, your success timeline. So if I asked you, Vince, what does success look like? There's a. When I say, oh, he's successful, what do you picture?

Vince Chen (17:46)

Yes, exactly. That's. The successful timeline is a way to look at your life journey as a series of pivotal moments, yet not your.

TurboTax Representative (17:59)

Own definition of success for you. But if you go, he's successful. A lot of times what people say is, if I say, he's successful, he's got the nice house or the nice car or he's got a boat here in the US That's a big thing. Or he's got things or he flies in nice jets and things like, that's what he's successful. What that looks like, that imagery. Now, if I say the same thing, he's had a. Or she's had a successful lifetime, that looks different in your head. He's a success or he's had a successful lifetime. She's a success, she's in a great suit, she's got a great job, she's a success, she's had a successful lifetime, that looks different. What does that look like? And so I ask people to. This timeline helps you look at, oh, wait, am I just having a success? Go for me. I had some success, some financial success. I bought a nice car, I had a nice house. I had things, but I want to build a successful lifetime. And for me, that's. How do I give back. It's raising my kids. That's all the other things that go into it. So that's. With this timeline, you can see what does that whole life look like? The big, messy, marvelous life. Because we each get one. You can put it all on one piece of paper and go, does this look successful?

Vince Chen (19:26)

So each of us has to define our own successful timeline.

TurboTax Representative (19:31)

Yes. Yes. So you have Legos, right? And you're in Hong Kong.

Comcast Representative (19:36)

Yeah.

TurboTax Representative (19:36)

You have Legos. I think the whole world has Legos. So if I. Yeah. If I gave you a Ziploc bag full of Legos, and you had it there in Hong Kong, and I had the same match of Legos here in the United States, and I had my own Ziploc, we both had the same Ziploc bag full of Legos. We would dump them out on a table. Same colors and shapes. Are we identical ones? We would dump them out of the table, and you would make something very different than me. We wouldn't make the exact same thing. So I look at your life as you've got your own bag of Legos, your stuff, your skills, your things, and you would make something very different. That's your success. What you're building is very personal to you and what you do with the pieces that you've been given. And I would do something different with the pieces that I've been given in my life. That's just one way to look at. I like a LEGO analogy, because we all can think of them as the pieces and parts of. We've all played with them and the pieces and parts that we are dealt. Whatever you get in that Ziploc bag, that's who you are. That's your personality, that's your talents. That's where you live, what you do. Our actually, our Lego, our Ziploc bags wouldn't be exactly the same, most likely. But even if we had some of the same skills and talents and things, we would make different things. Your definition of success is very personal to you. What a successful lifetime looks like for you is very personal to you. But you have to decide what that looks like, because otherwise you won't be happy or feel fulfilled. If in your head, what success looks like isn't what you're actually doing because you're doing something that is somebody else's level of success, does that make sense?

Vince Chen (21:23)

I can see why the legal mindset resonates with you and me is such a perfect metaphor for building a life, a career, even a podcast that's uniquely mine. You're not just piecing together blocks. You're creating something with purpose, using elements that feel authentic to you. Just like how each brick contributes to a structure. Every experience, every skill, every choice you make adds to your bigger picture. And just like a true master builder, you're following your own playbook, assembling a vision that's completely your own. Nina, I love how you've tied together all these elements, the successful timeline, the legal mindset, and the reverse resume. For anyone listening, whether you're facing a career transition, feeling stuck, and simply preparing for change, these tools can really help you navigate that journey. Thank you so much. Lena. Thank you for sharing your story and your wisdom.

TurboTax Representative (22:50)

My pleasure, my pleasure. The definition of resilience that I use is the ability to learn, grow stronger, and adapt in a positive way. That adapt piece is really important, so you have persistence and grit. That's double down and go hard and just keep going. That's very different from resilience. Resilience. You have to make a change that is adapt in a positive way. So I love that you had me on today. I love that you have this Chief Change Officer podcast. I think it's fantastic. I hope that I've shared some nuggets of wisdom that can help your listeners today.

Vince Chen (23:37)

Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, Leave us Top rated reviews, check out our website and follow me on social media. I'm Vincent, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.

Comcast Representative (24:07)

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