#295 Jodi Silverman: Parenting, Purpose & the Dare to Begin Again — Part Two

Summary

Chief Change Officer Podcast Episode #295: Jodi Silverman – Parenting, Purpose & the Dare to Begin Again — Part Two

Host: Vince Chan
Guest: Jodi Silverman, Founder of the Moms Who Dare Community
Release Date: April 13, 2025

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Introduction

In episode #295 of the Chief Change Officer podcast, host Vince Chan welcomes Jodi Silverman, the founder of the Moms Who Dare community. This two-part series delves into Jodi's transformative journey from managing a print business and raising a family to rediscovering her purpose post-parenting. Jodi shares heartfelt insights on navigating the empty nest phase, redefining self-identity, and fostering meaningful connections with adult children and partners.

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Common Challenges Faced by Mothers in the Empty Nest Stage

[05:03] Jodi Silverman

Jodi begins by outlining the primary challenges that women face when their children become adults and leave home:

• Feeling Disconnected: Mothers often feel a sense of disconnection from their adult children. Jodi notes, “They’re just not” true adults, leading to a longing for presence without the need to hover as a helicopter parent.
• Loss of Purpose: Many mothers struggle with the absence of their primary daily purpose, which was previously centered around their children.
• Finding New Friendships: Transitioning from being a “soccer mom” to meeting new friends without the conduit of children's activities.

Jodi emphasizes that these challenges are intertwined but can be addressed holistically by shifting focus inward and establishing new routines and connections.

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Solutions and the DARE Method

[05:03] Jodi Silverman

To tackle these challenges, Jodi introduces the DARE Method, a strategic approach to personal transformation:

1. Decide
   [09:15] Jodi Silverman
   “Decide that you’re ready now to accept this and focus on yourself.”

   • Making a conscious decision to prioritize self-discovery and personal growth.
   • Recognizing the shift from being the fixer to becoming a coach or advisor for adult children.

2. Awaken
   [09:15] Jodi Silverman
   “Awaken your heart again, awaken your mind again, awaken that spirit inside of you that always likes to try something new.”

   • Reconnecting with lost passions and dreams.
   • Allowing oneself to feel and process emotions deeply to build resilience.

3. Reimagine
   [09:15] Jodi Silverman
   “Reimagine what your life could look and feel like.”

   • Visualizing a new life beyond the previous role of motherhood.
   • Exploring hobbies and interests that were previously set aside.

4. Experience
   [09:15] Jodi Silverman
   “Dare to experience these new things.”

   • Creating and acting on a list of previously enjoyed activities or new interests.
   • Embracing trial and error without judgment to discover fulfilling pursuits.

Jodi stresses that transformation is gradual, akin to turning a dimmer switch rather than flipping a switch, allowing for seamless adaptation over time.

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Impact on Partners/Dads

[11:49] Jodi Silverman & [14:58] Vince Chen

Vince inquires about the role of partners during this transition. Jodi shares her personal experience with her husband, Sam, highlighting:

• Different Emotional Responses: While both parents miss their children, Jodi observes that fathers often compartmentalize their emotions more effectively, possibly due to societal conditioning.
• Balancing Togetherness and Individuality: Sam finds joy in reconnecting as a couple, engaging in shared interests while maintaining individual hobbies like golf, which sustains their relationship post-children.

Jodi notes the evolving dynamics as more fathers take active roles in parenting, especially with shifts like remote work post-pandemic. She believes that maintaining both togetherness and a sense of self is crucial for a healthy partnership.

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Reconnecting as a Couple

[21:07] Jodi Silverman

Jodi introduces the Day Swap technique to help couples reconnect:

• Description: “One person plans their ideal day, and the other participates, then swap roles.”
• Benefits:
  • Understanding Each Other’s Interests: Helps partners see the world through each other’s eyes, fostering appreciation and connection.
  • Shared Experiences: Enhances mutual respect and appreciation for each other’s passions and hobbies.

This method encourages couples to rediscover each other’s favorite activities, leading to a deeper emotional bond and rejuvenated relationship.

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Final Advice for Parents Facing the Empty Nest

[25:08] Jodi Silverman

Jodi offers practical steps for parents navigating this life stage:

1. Seek Professional Help if Needed
   “If you are struggling to get up every day, find professional help.”
   • Acknowledges the seriousness of depression and anxiety.
2. Make a Decision to Focus on Self
   • Accept the new role of being an advisor rather than a fixer.
3. Create a List of Interests
   “Write a list of everything that you used to like doing without judgment.”
   • Identifies and prioritizes personal passions and interests.
4. Take Baby Steps in Daring to Experience
   • Start small, allowing room for exploration and adaptation.
   • Embrace failures as learning opportunities without self-judgment.

Jodi emphasizes that transformation does not require a complete career overhaul but can begin with incremental steps towards personal fulfillment.

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Conclusion

[28:06] Vince Chen

Vince wraps up the episode by highlighting the key takeaways from Jodi’s insights:

• Balanced Focus: Importance of maintaining both togetherness and individuality within relationships.
• Gradual Transition: Adopting a slow, deliberate approach to identity change to mitigate feelings of loss.
• Evolving Motherhood: Recognizing that the role of a mother evolves from caretaker to advisor while maintaining a loving connection.

Jodi’s DARE Method serves as a valuable framework for parents seeking to redefine their purpose and build a fulfilling life post-parenting.

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Key Quotes

• Jodi Silverman [05:03]: “They’re just not” true adults, leading to a longing for presence without the need to hover as a helicopter parent.”
• Jodi Silverman [09:15]: “Decide that you’re ready now to accept this and focus on yourself.”
• Jodi Silverman [25:08]: “Make a decision, make a list and just start small steps. Daring doesn’t have to be a whole career change. It can be just little steps.”
• Jodi Silverman [23:18]: “It lets you day swap. Allows each party in the day swap to feel seen, heard, understood, appreciated.”

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Final Thoughts

Episode #295 of Chief Change Officer offers a profound exploration of the emotional and psychological transitions that come with children leaving the nest. Jodi Silverman’s heartfelt narrative and practical DARE Method provide listeners with actionable strategies to embrace this life stage with resilience and renewed purpose. Whether you are a parent, partner, or individual seeking transformation, this episode delivers valuable wisdom to support your journey toward personal growth and meaningful connections.

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Join the Conversation:
For more insights and to become part of the Chief Change Officer community, follow Vince Chan on LinkedIn, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube @chiefchangeofficer.

Transcript

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[Jody Silverman]

If you've been having your McDonald's sausage McMuffin with an iced coffee from somewhere else, now is a great time to reconsider.

[McDonald's Representative]

In the Pacific Northwest, it's never too cold for an iced coffee in the morning. Grab yourself a medium caramel, French vanilla or classic iced coffee for just $2.29. Beverage may cause craving for McMuffin or hash browns. Prices and participation may vary. Cannot be combined with any other offer or combo. Me.

[Vince Chen]

Hi everyone. Welcome to our show. Chief Change Officer, I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change, progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's guest is Jody Silverman, founder of the Moms who Dare community and someone who knows what it's like to face a totally quiet house and wonder what comes next. She built a print business, raised a family, and then realized it was time to find something that lit her up again. In this two part series, we talk about letting go of old roles, parenting when you are no longer the fixer, and why your next chapter doesn't have to look like your last one. Jody's story is honest, warm and refreshingly real. Let's get into it. So far, among the women you've connected with, what are some of the common challenges they face? And with those challenges in mind, what kinds of solutions have you seen either from the group or ones you've helped them discover?

[Jody Silverman]

Yeah, the top issues that show up every time women join the Facebook group, they have to answer that question. Actually, Vince, they have to answer what's your biggest challenge right now and what are you looking to gain by being part of this community? The biggest ones are the feeling disconnected from their now adult I do with the quotes adult children because honestly they're not adults at 18. They're just not. They're considered legal adults but they're not feeling disconnected. And within the disconnection is wanting to be present in their life without being that helicopter parent. The lack of feeling like they have a purpose, they've lost their main purpose every day in their life. And finding new friendships in this, it's a midlife chapter and beyond because this is the only time in a parent's life and I'll talk about moms because it's really the mom's, the mom's life where her children are not the conduits to her. Meeting other mom friends, meaning there's no more play, practice, no more basketball, there's no more soccer moms. And that's where we tend to meet our mom friends. So it's the learning how to connect and be a parent to adult children without hovering, finding and discovering their purpose. What do they even want to do, need to do, like to do because they put that on the back burner. And then connection, friendship, finding that community, the friendships, those are the three. And what's great about all three of those. So the parenting one, I literally, I actually have a specific technique and as far as parenting the adult children, let me back up one thing that can cover all three, that can help a mom navigate all three. The number one strategy is to shift your focus from them. Where it has been for all these years as a mom as, as a full time. I'm back to you, back to you. So permission to say, okay, I get to focus on me. I get to put myself at the top of the list now and start to discover or rediscover or reconnect to those lost passions, those lost dreams. So shifting the focus onto you will help you not be fill your time so you're not worried. Constantly thinking about, where are they? What are they doing? I'm going to text them this cell phone which I'm holding up right now. This is a great tool and a dangerous tool. Constantly connected. So if you, you have ability to contact your child 24 7, that's not what this is for. So the first thing to do is to recognize that you get to put yourself first. And you must put yourself first. It will help you with your relationship with your now adult child because you are now focused on yourself, giving yourself them a little distance. When you're focused on a new hobby, a new business venture, you can't be texting 247 to your children and they don't want you to. And you become more interesting to your adult children. You have more conversation with them. And yet with that being said, the number one parenting shift we all must make, and it really does. You brought this earlier events about being 10, 11, 12, 13 years old. The sooner that we can do this, we should be doing this throughout all of our parenting. And I was not good at this until I discovered it is going from the fixer to the coach. With our children.

[Vince Chen]

This process isn't easy. Like you said, it's not like flipping a switch. It's more like turning a dimmer. The change happens gradually. So it helps to prepare for it step by step, stage by stage. Maybe that means adjusting small habits every day or every month. That way when the day actually comes, when they really leave for college or move out, you are more ready for it.

[Jody Silverman]

I actually have a method for it. We call it the DARE method. We call it the DARE method. And it's deciding. It's a simple. It's a decision. A decision that you understand, I'm ready to focus on myself. A decision that, okay, my kids, I'm doing what I did a great job. They're out there doing what they do. And by the way, Vince, you are never not a mom. You're just. Your role as their mom is shifting and changing, but you are always their mom. My 29 and 26 year olds still call me for advice. They only know what they know in the moment. So this whole thought process of I'm no longer a mom, I'm not needed. No, you are always a mom. Always. And you are needed always, just in a different capacity and in different ways. So decide that you're ready now to accept this and focus on yourself. That's the d. The a is awaken once you make a decision. When I made a decision and answering that question, am I fulfilled? Is this what I want to be doing? When I said no, that was a decision. That was a decision. I had awakened something within me. So awaken to what's possible. Awaken your heart again, awaken your mind again. Awaken that spirit inside of you that always likes to try something new. And then you get to go to the R, which is to reimagine. Reimagine. What could my life look and feel like? Reimagine about the things that you used to like to do, you know, go back and reconnect. To reconnect and reimagine. And then the e is the daring, that's the experiencing. Allow yourself to experience these new things. Create a list, like within the DA, the DARE method, you're going to create a list of the things you used to like doing. What are the things that look like fun to do. And then you're going to just slowly dare to experience these new things. Maybe some are not so new, you just haven't done them in 10, 15 years. You have to take yourself through the, you have to feel the loss, Vince. You always have to feel your emotions. We cannot just move through emotions and ignore them because they will come up. It's a resilience thing. It's how quickly can you understand the emotion you're feeling, what you're having, why you're having it. And then once you can understand why you're feeling the way you're feeling, you can then say, okay, I'm ready to decide on what my next step will be. How can I move forward or move through it?

[Vince Chen]

The mt nest experience isn't just something moms go through. Dads feel it too. So I'm curious, how did your husband handle it? What was his reaction like? How did he respond to the shift at home?

[Jody Silverman]

So I know for him, Sam has a unique ability, Vince, to compartmentalize events and things. His mother, my mother in law, was very pragmatic Sam is a very pragmatic person. With that said, he was missing the kids. When we dropped Ellie, our oldest, we knew. I knew the minute we dropped Ellie off of college that she would only be visiting home, moving forward. She would never be living permanently in our house again. She would come home for the holidays. But I knew that there was no way Ellie was going to move back home. And I remember when she graduated college, so Sam missed her, Sam missed her. Ellie was very big into basketball and that was a very bonding thing for Sam and Ellie, basketball. So he was going to miss her. And then when Daniel left, he was. He missed both kids. He missed both of them. And yet my husband's personal feeling was, now I get to hang out with you again, Jody. We get to do things we like to do, just the two of us. And when we're with our kids, we can have fun again. But he was really excited to move through that with us. Now, I know that there are dads, I've spoken to dads, that it hits really hard. And, and yet I'm going to make a very big generalization. Most of the fathers I know, although they miss their kids, it doesn't hit them as, what's the word I'm looking for? As deeply or not deeply. That's not the right word. As emotionally. And maybe it's because most men don't give up their careers, I guess, but I don't know, maybe dads handle it differently. They miss their children, yet they seem to be handling it better. They don't have that loss of purpose that a mom has because now things are changing. In the future generations, you're seeing more dads, you're seeing more families because of the financial issues in the world. With daycare, more families sit down and say, okay, who makes more sense to stay home, the mom or the dad? Which parents should stay home? So there are more stay at home dads, work from home dads, and more fathers since the pandemic are working remotely from home, so are taking a much more active role in the day to day activity of their children. So I'm curious to see as generations go on. My feeling for dads are that they miss their children and yet they don't have that feeling of disconnectness that moms have. And they don't have the same loss of purpose. They feel sad, but they're not into the level of a mom. That's just been my experience.

[Vince Chen]

I think in general, just speaking broadly, men tend to be less outwardly sentimental. Part of that comes from how society has shaped us across cultures. Men are expected to be the strong ones, the calm ones. I still remember being told as a kid, boys shouldn't cry while it was okay for girls, which doesn't make any sense. We're all human. We have sentiments, we have feelings. So I think for many fathers, even if they feel the sadness intrinsically, deeply, they may not show it. Maybe they shed tears in private, but that conditioning runs deep and it definitely shapes how they process things like the.

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[Jody Silverman]

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[Jody Silverman]

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[Jody Silverman]

If you've been having your McDonald's sausage McMuffin with an iced coffee from somewhere else, now is a great time to reconsider.

[McDonald's Representative]

In the Pacific Northwest, it's never too cold for an iced coffee in the morning. Grab yourself a medium caramel, French vanilla or classic iced coffee for just $2.29. Warning beverage may cause craving for McMuffin or hash browns. Prices and participation may vary. Cannot be combined with any other offer or combo meal.

[Jody Silverman]

I think it's valid. I think it's valid. Yes, we are making some generalizations here and yet it is valid because society still raises boys worth to not feel their emotions the way girls feel them. And it's wrong. It's wrong because I do believe what makes us strong, what makes us resilient is Our ability to feel and sit with our difficult emotions. That's what makes everybody. I don't care who you are, what gender you are, how old you are, our ability to feel and sit and understand our emotions is what will eventually create a much more resilient world.

[Vince Chen]

So, quick side story. I was chatting with another guest recently. He's a father and both his kids had left home. We were not even talking about family at first, more about leadership and career stuff. But somehow this topic came up and what he shared was interesting. He said after the kids left, he and his wife decided not to just go back to us as a couple, but instead they each returned to their individual selves. They gave each other space, meaning living under the same roof but doing the things they loved independently. He said over the past 20 something years, a lot of that got put aside for parenting. Now they are picking it back up again and for them it works. Have you seen that happen in your own experience, either in your family or with others in your community? Would you say that's a good thing?

[Jody Silverman]

So what I have found is that some women share that when the children are removed from the equation, they're left looking at each other. Who are we? Who are we as a couple? Who are you? When did you get could? Because the children have been everything in their world and there is a way it doesn't. I think some people get scared that their marriage might fall apart when the kids leave. It doesn't have to. It doesn't have to. What I do agree with what that guest said is I strongly believe that you need common interests together, enjoy to do things together. And you also need your own interests and your own friends too. My my husband Sam and I have that. We love being together. We like just hanging out together. We go out together. We have couple friends, we go out as couples. And yet he has his golf, I have my tennis. He has lots of community through golf. I have my mom, Sudare. I plan events for just my mom's. It's very important to have a sense of togetherness and a sense of self. It's very important to have both. I believe that to have a successful, strong relationship partnership, there has to be both of that combined. I will share. Can I give one tip on this one?

[Vince Chen]

Of course.

[Jody Silverman]

If you are a couple that's feeling disconnected with each other or from each other. My friend and a fellow coach who is brilliant at this, she came up with a great tip and I love it. It's my favorite one. It's called a day swap and you can do it with your adult children as well, Vince. To feel more connected. So one person in the relationship plans their ideal day. What is our favorite thing to do? You are invited to come along on their perfect day and then you swap and you do the other person. What that allows you to do is it reminds you of what this other person who you love so much, what lights them up, watching them enjoy and connects you back to what it is they really enjoy doing. And it's a shared experience. So a day swap with your adult children would be if they don't live at home anymore, you go visit them at college or you visit them wherever they live. You'll plan a day and take me around to all your favorite spots. You will feel reconnected to them. So now when you talk on the phone and they talk about I'm standing in line getting my latte mom, you know exactly where they are. Ignites connection and it allows you to see that on other person. View a view through their eyes of what really lights them up. It's good. But yes, I believe you need both of that.

[Vince Chen]

I really like what you said. Being together but still being yourself. You can have different interests. Maybe you love ice cream and he doesn't like dessert. That's fine. And that day's what idea. It's great. You get to rediscover each other. What they like, what's changed. Even something simple like gift giving becomes more thoughtful. Because we all change over time. If we do notice that in each other, that's when we start to feel disconnected.

[Jody Silverman]

Yeah. And it lets you day swap. Allows each party in the day swap to feel seen, heard, understood, appreciated. And isn't that what we all really want? We want to be seen and heard. And it can't help but bring you closer because you abandon anything that you feel or think. And you're just there to be with this person and witness what it is they truly enjoy doing. So it's a wonderful dare to do.

[Vince Chen]

Today. You've shared a lot of great insights from the importance of togetherness and self. Two ideas like the day's walk and a dimmer approach to identity change. I really like that one. Slowly refocusing on yourself over time so it doesn't feel like a sudden loss when your kids leave home. You also reminded us that being a mom never ends. The role evolves from caretaker to advisor, but the connection remains. And as you said, we don't need to be the best friends. We guide, we let go and we keep building a life of our own. So if There's a parent listening right now, maybe still feeling down, stuck, or overwhelmed by the emptiness. What would you say to them? What's one thing they can do to start moving forward again?

[Jody Silverman]

If somebody is really bad, like really down and out? And I know the words depression, anxiety are thrown around very loosely in our world today, but if you are struggling to get up every day out of it, find help. Go find professional help, always. Because there are some people that it affects so deeply that they need help. That's. I'll just say that out loud. The first thing I would tell anybody to do is make a decision and understand that you are always their mom and that you are going to shift from the fixer of all things to being there. As I love the coach or advisor, I love the word advisor, that you are ready to let them go. They will call you and reach out when they need help, and when they do, you're an advisor. You're going to help them. You're not going to fix things and then for yourself. Start with a list. Start with a list. Write a list of everything that. What are things I used to like doing before I was even like anybody's girlfriend, wife, husband, boyfriend, whatever it is, partner. What are the things you used to like doing without judgment? No judgment. Just like it's kind of brain dump. What did I used to like to ride my bike. I used to like riding a bike. I used to like hiking. It's like cooking, whatever it is, write a list. What are things that other people doing that when you see them doing, you're like, wow, that looks really fun. That looks cool. I think I could do that. And it can be a hobby, it could be a career. And then once you make your list without judgment, read through the list and tap into how you feel and start to dare to experience the things on your list. And here's what I'm going to say, Vince, Because a lot of people don't. They get stuck in this part. This is the taking action, the daring part. They don't. Because what if they fail? What if they don't like it? That's great. If you don't like doing it, you could take it off your list. I tried. I don't like that anymore. You might discover something else. You make room if you try. Say you register for a class and you just failed miserably at learning a new language. You wanted to learn how to speak Mandarin. You totally feel. It's okay. It's okay. What did you learn from that? Move on to the next thing. So make a decision, make a list and just start small steps. Daring doesn't have to be a whole career change. It can be. It can be just little steps. And if you have a side hustle or a hobby maybe really look at that and ask yourself, how would this feel if I now put more time into my hobby? Could I make it into a business too? How does that feel when I say that? So make a list, little baby steps, and find somebody to step out with you if you want.

[Vince Chen]

And that's the end for our two part series on Jodie Silverman. Jody's journey is a reminder that letting go of one identity isn't the end, it's an opening. Whether you are a parent, partner or just someone trying to figure out what's next, her dare method is a good place to start. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, Leave us top rated reviews. Check out our website and follow me on social media on this Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time. Take care.

[Dr. Horton Representative]

Now is your time to get into a new Dr. Horton home by taking advantage of their national red Tag sales event going on right now through April 20th. Stop by any of their participating communities and find select red tag homes at incredible pricing. So whether you're buying your first home or looking for an upgrade, you don't want to miss the red Tag sales event going on right now. Discover the Dr. Horton [e-mail] that's Dr. Horton.com Dr. Horton, America's builder and equal Housing Opportunity Builder.

[Jody Silverman]

If you've been having your McDonald's sausage McMuffin with an iced coffee from somewhere else, now is a great time to reconsider.

[McDonald's Representative]

In the Pacific Northwest, it's never too cold for an iced coffee in the morning. Grab yourself a medium caramel, French vanilla or classic iced coffee for just $2.29. Warning beverage may cause craving for McMuffin or hash browns. Prices and participation may vary. Cannot be combined with any other offer or combo meal.