#313 Erika Ayers-Baden: No One Cares About Your Career—So Build One That Works for You

Summary

Podcast Summary: Chief Change Officer Episode #313 featuring Erica Ayers-Baden

Introduction

In Episode #313 of the Chief Change Officer podcast, host Vince Chan engages in a profound conversation with Erica Ayers-Baden, the CEO of Food52 and the pioneering first CEO of Barstool Sports. Known for her dynamic career spanning media, marketing, and tech with notable stints at Fidelity Investments, Microsoft, AOL, and Yahoo, Erica brings a wealth of experience and candid insights to the discussion. Her debut book, "No One Cares About Your Career: So Build One That Works for You," serves as a focal point for this episode, offering listeners actionable wisdom distilled from her diverse professional journey.

Erica’s Career Journey

Erica begins by outlining her eclectic career path, emphasizing her tenacity and adaptability across various industries and roles. [00:14] She shares, “I’ve worked all over the world… in pursuit of really becoming a better person and a better leader and a more interesting whole being.” Her tenure at Barstool Sports, a company she helped transform into one of the most innovative and disruptive entities in sports and media, stands out as a testament to her leadership and creative prowess.

Inspiration Behind the Book

The conversation shifts to the genesis of Erica’s book, "No One Cares About Your Career." [08:02] Erica reveals that the title originated from a comment made to her fifteen years prior, encapsulating a fundamental truth about career development: "Nobody's coming to help you." This realization spurred her to write a book that navigates the raw realities of career growth without relying on perfection or simplistic solutions.

Erica elaborates, “I wanted to speak to people that what I would call in the mid chapter… it’s really for the people who are getting up on a Monday morning or a Wednesday morning and they're trying to make the most of their life and they're trying to make the most of their work.” Her aim is to provide a relatable and honest guide for mid-career professionals striving to maximize their potential amidst challenges.

Book’s Key Insights

Erica distinguishes her book from others in the career genre by emphasizing authenticity and practicality. [18:23] Unlike many business books that portray flawless success stories or offer overly prescriptive advice, Erica’s narrative is deeply personal and filled with real-life anecdotes. She states, “I have made every mistake in the book, I have learned an incredible amount… I wanted to write a book like a conversation with someone who is still going through it.”

This conversational tone makes the book accessible and engaging, encouraging readers to reflect on their own career paths without feeling the pressure of perfection.

Five Simple Things to Succeed at Work

One of the most impactful segments of the episode revolves around Erica’s “Five Simple Things Anyone Can Do to Succeed at Work.” [25:22] These principles are distilled from her extensive experience and are designed to be practical and applicable across various professional contexts.

1. Who You Are: Emphasizes the importance of self-awareness and authenticity in the workplace. Erica explains, “Your job isn’t perfect and neither are you. But you both can be great.”

2. What You Have to Offer: Focuses on identifying and leveraging one’s unique skills and contributions. Erica underscores the value of recognizing personal strengths to add meaningful value to any role.

3. How You Show Up: Highlights the significance of professional presence and behavior. Erica notes, “The way you present yourself can significantly impact how others perceive and engage with you.”

4. What You Do with Your Time: Encourages effective time management and prioritization. She advises, “Making the most of your everyday ensures sustained productivity and progress.”

5. How Much You Care: Perhaps the most critical, Erica asserts, “The sheer act of caring about something can change everything.” She believes that genuine passion and commitment are key drivers of success.

Personal Stories and Anecdotes

Throughout the episode, Erica shares poignant personal stories that illustrate her philosophies. [30:25] Growing up in a small New England town, she recounts lessons in negotiation and perseverance learned from sharing a limited television time with her brother. Her anecdote about convincing her mother to unblock MTV demonstrates her early initiative and determination.

Erica also reflects on her parental influences, mentioning how her father served as her principal in middle school, instilling in her a deep sense of responsibility and commitment. These formative experiences undeniably shaped her approach to leadership and career development.

Impact of the Pandemic and Career Realignment

Erica discusses how the COVID-19 pandemic catalyzed a shift in her professional approach. [15:36] Transitioning from a rigid, in-office culture at Barstool Sports to remote work posed significant challenges. To maintain engagement and communication with her 250-strong team, she initiated a daily 10-minute podcast. This pivot not only kept her team connected but also attracted external attention, leading to a surge in career-related inquiries that eventually inspired her to write her book.

Future Aspirations and Teaching

Looking ahead, Erica expresses a keen interest in teaching and sharing her insights on a broader platform. [16:25] She admires Ray Dalio’s “Principles” and envisions expanding her book into a comprehensive teaching platform or a series of courses to aid individuals in navigating the modern workplace. Her goal is to make her wisdom more accessible and actionable for a wider audience.

Conclusion

Erica Ayers-Baden’s episode on Chief Change Officer offers a treasure trove of insights for professionals seeking to navigate and thrive in their careers. Her candid discussions, grounded in personal experience and practical wisdom, provide listeners with both inspiration and actionable strategies to build careers that genuinely work for them. As Vince Chan aptly summarizes, Erica’s message is clear: "Nobody cares about your career," but by embracing responsibility, authenticity, and proactive growth, individuals can craft fulfilling and successful professional lives.

Notable Quotes:

• “[00:14] Erica Ayers Baden: … in pursuit of really becoming a better person and a better leader and a better executive and a more interesting whole being.”
• “[08:02] Erica Ayers Baden: … nobody's coming to help you.”
• “[25:22] Erica Ayers Baden: … the sheer act of caring about something can change everything.”
• “[30:25] Erica Ayers Baden: … if you don't care, people will see through it in a nanosecond.”

Final Thoughts

Erica Ayers-Baden’s narrative is a compelling blend of vulnerability and resilience, offering a roadmap for those striving to outgrow themselves and achieve greater career fulfillment. Her insights resonate deeply with the podcast’s mission to foster transformation and growth, making this episode a must-listen for ambitious professionals worldwide.

Transcript

[Vince Chen]

Hi, everyone. Welcome to our show. Chief Change Officer, I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change. Progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. Today's episode is a special one for me. I'm joined by none other than Erica Ayers Baden, the current CEO of Food52, a leading innovator in the food, cooking and home space. Before her time at Food52, Erica was the first ever CEO of Barstool Sports. And her career spans across media, marketing and tech, with roles at companies like Fidelity Investments, Microsoft, AOL and Yahoo. But let me be clear. This isn't about interviewing someone with big titles on my show. I bring on guests who are willing to share real, live stories. And Erica has no shortage of those. In fact, she's gathered so many lessons along the way that she decided to write her first book titled no One Cares about yout Career. When I saw that title, I knew I had to develop a two part series featuring a Erica. Why does this title hit so hard? Because it's the truth. I've learned it the hard way myself through the twists and turns of my own career. I'm excited that Erica has captured this reality so perfectly, and I'm grateful she is saying it out loud, helping others who feel stuck in their careers confront the truth and break free from the baggage holding them back. In this episode, we'll dive into the book why she Wrote it, why now and won this title. Plus, we'll unpack some key nuggets of wisdom, including five Simple Things Anyone can do to Succeed at Work. In the next episode, Erika will open up about her life and career experiences. Her upbringing, her parents, her leadership approach, and even her thoughts on toxic work cultures. And here's something you won't hear in other interviews. What career advice would Erica give her own two middle school children given we are in such rapidly changing workplace? That's our in depth look at Erica Air's bottom. Let's dive right in. Welcome Erica. Thanks for being here.

[Erica Ayers Baden]

Thank you, Vince. I'm excited to be here.

[Vince Chen]

Erica, let's start with a bit of your career history.

[Erica Ayers Baden]

Okay, great, Vince. So I'm Erica. I live right around New York City. I work in New York City. I worked in New York City for, I don't know, 15 years, almost 20 years. I grew up in a really small town in New England. I was born in Colorado and I'm best known for my last job, which I spent a decade building a company called Barstool Sports, which in the American market is One of, if not the most wild, fast growing, creative, dynamic, disruptive companies in sports and media and entertainment in the past two to three decades. So I'm most known for my time at Barstool Sports. Prior to that, I worked at a lot of really big companies like Microsoft and Yahoo and aol. I worked at a bunch of startups in the fashion space, in the music space, in the entertainment space. I started my career thinking I wanted to be a lawyer and I didn't. I would been laid off. I was a receptionist. I had a bunch of career changes. I had a very meandering career path. I worked at a bunch of ad agencies. I've worked all over the world. So I've had, I would say, a really unique career in that I've really tried a lot of different things, I've worked at a lot of different places, I've learned from a lot of different types of people, all in pursuit of really becoming a better person and a better leader and a better executive and a more interested whole being. And I don't know if that works, Vince, but that's how I would describe it.

[Vince Chen]

So initially you planned to go to law school, or perhaps it was more of an expectation from your parents, but in the end you chose a different path. What led you to that decision?

[Erica Ayers Baden]

Yes, I had gotten an internship. I went to a liberal arts college in Maine in the US And I had gotten an internship in Boston. And most of my family are teachers. And my parents were teachers and educators. My dad was my principal when I was in middle school, which is probably a story for later. And I felt my parents really sacrificed so that my brother and I could go to very good schools. And I felt a very significant sense of obligation to do something with that. I feel that my parents had sacrificed themselves so to give us opportunity. And I felt a very, a big debt of gratitude on that. And when I had gotten this internship, it was at Fidelity Investments, it was in Boston, Massachusetts, and I loved it. And I got this bug to work in a corporate, corporate environment. I was, I don't. No one else in my extended family works in a corporate environment. And. But I got the bug and it made me think, oh, I want to go to law school and I'd like to get a business degree. I never ended up doing either of those things. But what I did do is set out to be very successful in the corporate world and to do it the best way I could, which was really learning on the job and as an apprenticeship.

[Vince Chen]

Now it's time to dive into your Book. I have to confess to the audience, when Erica and her team reached out to me about doing this interview, I immediately said yes, like, no hesitation at all. Why? What drew me in so quickly was the title of the book, which is no one cares about your career. This is punchy title. And given Erica's expertise in marketing, I'm no surprise she came up with something so catchy. But it's not just about the phrase. It's about those five words. They resonate with me 200%. Seriously, I learned this truth the hard way in my own journey. It is one of life's realities. And once I understood it, I accepted it and even embraced it. Erica, you and I were in a studio together, right? Now, I will give you a hug, or at least a solid high five for speaking my mind so perfectly.

[Erica Ayers Baden]

Take a hug, Vince.

[Vince Chen]

Thank you. Thank you. One day when I come to the States and interview you in person. Let's do that. Anyway, back to the book title. I'm curious, how did you come up with no one cares about your career as the title? Was it something you had in mind from the start of your writing process, or did it come up later, maybe as a result of. Of collaboration with your publisher or editor?

[Erica Ayers Baden]

So nobody cares about your career is something someone told me once, Vince, probably 15 years ago, and it always stuck in my head. And when I was writing the book, it was the title of one of the chapters. And I, to be honest with you, I never thought about it as the title for the book, but I did feel very strongly about it as the core of the book, which is that nobody's coming to help you. You need to get over your insecurity and your ego and put yourself into what you're doing every day. And that work is tuition that you get paid for. And it's up to you to save yourself, grow yourself, push yourselves, teach yourselves. And so it becoming the title of the book really happened. Towards the end, I was honestly quite stuck about what the title should be. I thought about the title of get comfortable being uncomfortable or you can be yourself and be successful. And there was a really interesting woman at the publisher who said, we're on a conference call trying to figure out the title of the book. And she said, why don't you just go look at your chapters? Like, maybe the book has a lot of punchy chapter titles, I think. And she was like, why don't you go look in the chapter list and see if there's a title? And I looked to the chapter list, and it was obvious that was going to be the title.

[Vince Chen]

Yeah, I read this chapter specifically. We'll come back to this in a minute. The book, what inspired you to write it in the very first place?

[Erica Ayers Baden]

Oh, a lot. One is I've always been that person at work that just feel too much about work. I actually hate this about myself, but I'm deeply emotional about work. I think about work all the time. I think about how things could be better or different or what I could change or what I could do differently or better. And I remember working at AOL a long time ago, probably 15 years ago at this point, and a coworker saying to me, I used to send these really long emails. And then my coworker was like, why do you do that? What a stupid waste of your time. Everybody's out partying after a work day and you're on your phone writing emails about what we did the day before. And so I've always really felt the need to share how I feel emotionally about work. It's very motivating to me to lay it out and hopefully it's motivating or interesting or compelling to others. And I was at a point, I had been at Barstool Sports for about eight years, almost nine years, and we had sold the company to a new company that was much bigger than ours, that was publicly traded, that was heavily regulated. And I felt my creativity at work. Vince, just totally get zapped. I had been running this wild, creative, amorphous, freewheeling, fast, fast growth company and all of a sudden the brakes got pumped and I was trying to do daily financial reporting and daily forecasting and reforecasting and I was feeling my creativity just go to the wayside. And so I started to write the book on my commute because I felt like it. It brought me back to the things that I had loved about Barstool Sports that were so creative. And then the second piece is over. The Pandemic. I had created a podcast when I was the CEO of Barstool Sports because at Barstool we had never worked remote. We didn't have a remote working culture. Before the Pandemic, everyone was in the office every day, all the time. We didn't have any need for technology because everybody worked together in person. When the Pandemic hit, it was very alienating for me and it was very alienating for our company. And so I started emailing everyone in the company every week. And there were 250 people in the company at the time. And I was sending 250 emails. I would go through the A's and then the B's and then the C's. And what I realized was that was impossible because I was just getting flooded with email and I was flooding email right back and it seems silly. So I started a pod, a daily 10 minute podcast where I talked about what we were doing at Barstool Sports. And I used it as a way to connect with people who I worked with. And then it became interesting to people who worked outside of or what were well beyond Barstool Sports. And so what I gravitated towards was I was getting all sorts of Q and A questions from people about their careers. And it built over time where I get probably 2, 200 questions a week at this point. So I'm getting a massive amount of work questions. And in the same way I felt making a podcast was a better way to talk to a 250 people employee base, I felt that writing a book was perhaps a more thoughtful, complete way to respond to people's work questions.

[Vince Chen]

With the pandemic, everyone was stuck at home. And you used a podcast to keep your team engaged. Instead of just sending long emails, it helped keep everyone active and connected. Soon more people outside your firm started paying attention, sending in career related questions, which you began answering. Eventually it led you to think, why not put all of this into a book? A way to reach a wider audience and share your experiences and thoughts more broadly. Does that sound like a fair summary of your journey?

[Erica Ayers Baden]

A far more succinct way to do it, Vince, for sure.

[Vince Chen]

Maybe one day you could become like Ray Dalio, one of the billionaire investors in the U.S. after retiring, he's turned his life's work and lessons into a 600 page book called Principles. I'm sure you've heard of it. He even collaborated with professors to develop courses around content. Maybe one day you could go down a similar path, turning no one cares about your career into something more, perhaps a teaching platform or a. A series of courses to help people navigate the modern workplace. What do you think about taking that approach?

[Erica Ayers Baden]

I'd love to teach. Yeah, that's what in the. What are my future plans? I would love to teach. I think Principles is an incredible book. It's also really dense. You have to be awake when you're reading it. And I hope for this book was that it was more conversational and in some ways lighter and more digestible. But I too love Principles. I thought it was a really powerful way to think about building yourself and building a company.

[Vince Chen]

So I started skimming through the first few chapters of your book. As you mentioned, it has a more conversational tone but is also packed with real life stories. Tell us more about how your book stands out from other business or career oriented books.

[Erica Ayers Baden]

Oh, I think this book is quite different for a bunch of reasons. Before I wrote it I went to the bookstore and and I went on Amazon and Barnes and Noble and I went and looked at all I went and looked at the business book article aisle and I really found two things. The first was a lot of books written by people who were professing to be perfect. So their heads were on the COVID and it was all about me and my perfect career, what I've accomplished. Aren't I so great? And the second majority of the books I found were that you they were much thinner, much smaller and much more prescriptive where you were you're supposed to do a very small set of things to unlock yourself and unlock your career. And I left the aisle thinking what I I'm not perfect and I don't have a three step habit that is going to unlock everything for anybody including myself and my career. What I do have is the receipts where I'm a CEO, I'm in the middle of my career, I have made every mistake in the book, I have learned an incredible amount, I have pride and endeavored to do a whole lot. And I wanted to speak to people that what I would call in the mid chapter. So it's not people who don't know where to get started and it's not people who've made it all the way to the end or the top. It's really for the people who are getting up on a Monday morning or a Wednesday morning and they're trying to make the the most of their life and they're trying to make the most of their work. And for me, work was I work changed my life. And I really think work is where we spend the vast majority of our time and effort and energy. And I wanted to write a book like a conversation with someone who is still going through it, who has messed up a whole lot, who has done a whole lot and who is kind enough to shake you, but also to give you a hug and say you can do this.

[Vince Chen]

So it's like a friend talking to you.

[Erica Ayers Baden]

I think so. I think it's written honestly, it's told from my experience, but it also leaves it to the reader to make their own conclusion about what what path they want to take and what course they want to choose.

[Vince Chen]

In the early part of the book I noticed you actually list out who would be the readers for this book. You lay out all the criteria, and as I read through them, I thought, oh, I fit this, I fit that. So I know this book is for me. I check off, if not all, at least nine out of ten of those points. Then you also make clear who the book is not for with a list of about 20 things. I was relieved because I wasn't any of those. But I would say for sure this book is for people who desire a change at work and understand that change at work is a gateway to changing their life. That's actually the first criterion you list.

[Erica Ayers Baden]

That's exactly right.

[Vince Chen]

Those who like to follow rules and are comfortable following rules. This book is not for you. Unfortunately, inside there are a lot, a lot of different stories. And one specific story stands out to me is about your interview with a few major decision makers when you were trying to get a job, the CEO job at Barstool. I found it very, very interesting and utmostly honest. I can definitely relate to your point about how this book is different from others because you tell the truth about what happened at that time. You mentioned you were not sure about the interviews I outcome and even thought you did not do well. Then one of those decision makers you spoke with said, I think we could give it a try, although I'm not sure if you can do it. It's so raw and unfiltered. That's what I appreciate. This is why I'm really enjoying the book and I planned to finish it soon.

[Erica Ayers Baden]

That's great.

[Vince Chen]

Yeah.

[Erica Ayers Baden]

I wanted to be just very direct. I'm a direct person, and I wanted to be direct about not only the things that I feel like have done well and that I've done well, but really also the things that I've been insecure about and the things I haven't done well and the lessons I've had to learn the hard way. And I really wanted it to be a good read. But also a book that makes you think about what would you do and how do you think about things and how do you feel about things? I think to the point of nobody cares about your career. I think a lot of times people get into a job because it's what they're supposed to do. I talked to someone recently, a college senior, and he goes to Princeton. And he. So I said, hey, James, what do you. What are you going to do? What do you want to do after college? And James said, I go to Princeton, so I have to go work in finance. And I was like, why do you think that just because you went to Princeton doesn't mean you have to go work in finance. But I think a lot of times people get caught up in what everyone else thinks they should do or what everyone else thinks they should be. And the reality is that nobody's really thinking about you that much and you should do what makes you happy and tell everyone else to jump off a cliff. So the book is hopefully motivating to get people to do that.

[Vince Chen]

There are surely a lot of nuggets of wisdom in the book, and one that stands out to me is when you highlight five simple things for anyone to succeed at work. Who you are, what you have to offer, how you show up, what you do with your time, and how much you care. Five core things. Erica, could you briefly walk us through why you chose these five? After so many years of working, working across different industries in different countries, and eventually landing leadership roles and become a CEO who turned a company around, how did you distill all those learnings into these five simple points? And how can we as individuals apply them to move forward in our own careers?

[Erica Ayers Baden]

Sure. So let's start with caring, right? It's so simple, the idea that you should care and that it's important to find something to care about in your day, whether you're at home, whether you're raising kids, whether you're a career person, whether you're a bus driver like you, you gotta find a reason to care. And I think the people who care at work are the best people at work. And it's not about how intelligent you are, it's not about how pedigreed you are, it's not about how experienced you are. The sheer act of caring about something can change everything. So. So I really start there, as if you don't care, people will see through it in a nanosecond and it will prompt other people not to care about you. So I often think that the things that can make us most successful or hold us be most detrimental in holding us back come down to really simple things. Caring being one of them. So I can't overstate that enough. I think the other four, it's really about just making the most of your everyday. And I know that also sounds simple, but I talk a lot in the book about having a vision and for having an idea in your head and your heart about who you want to be or what you want to accomplish or where you want to go that gets you out of getting lost in all the minutiae or the office gossip or the problems at work. One of the things I talk a lot about in the book is your job isn't perfect and neither are you. But you both can be great. And I spend a lot of time thinking about that. Every company has problems. Every person has problems. Every company has things that it's overcome or trying to overcome. Every person has things that they've overcome or trying to overcome. Every company has that thing deep down inside that's broken and it needs to fix. People are the same way. So I really do believe that just by getting started and by doing something and having a commitment to yourself of a place you want to get to or something you want to be, that can make all of the difference in how successful you are or not.

[Vince Chen]

I found that in my life and in the lives of many successful people I know, their career decisions, how they present themselves, and what they care about often link back to their past. Whether it's their family, upbringing, early experiences, or even the history of the parents or grandparents, these become powerful forces that shape who they become. Could you share a bit more about your younger years? Maybe something from your family life or childhood that nurtured your business instincts despite not going to business school? Was this something from your past that helped shape the person you are today? Motivated, ambitious, successful, yet always true to yourself.

[Erica Ayers Baden]

Our childhood, if I had to describe it, was you could read, you could play sports, you could hang out with your friends, but you'd have to go find something to do with yourself. You could stack wood or do chores. And that was pretty much it. So my brother and I shared we didn't have a TV for a long time, and then we got a TV and my brother and I shared an hour of TV a week between us. And I always say that's where I learned how to negotiate, because my brother and I really had to duke it out to figure out what we were watching. And ultimately we had to learn that if we both compromised to watch something we both wanted, instead of getting a half hour each, we could get a full hour of television. I also learned my mother used to block mtv, which MTV was huge when I was a kid. So I would just call the cable company every month and say that I was my mother so that I could get the MTV turned back on.

[Vince Chen]

In the next episode, Erica will open up about her life and career experiences, her upbringing, her parents, her leadership approach, and even her thoughts on toxic work cultures. And here's something you won't hear in other interviews. What career advice would she give her own two children who are in middle school especially in this rapidly changing workplace. Thank you so much. Thank you very much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show. Leave us top rated reviews. Check out our website and follow me on social media. I'm Vincent, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.