Chief Change Officer Podcast Summary

Episode: #351 Juliana Schroeder: AI, Power, and the Psychology of Human Connection
Release Date: May 6, 2025
Host: Vince Chan
Guest: Juliana Schroeder, Associate Professor of Management of Organizations, UC Berkeley Haas School of Business

Introduction to the Episode

In episode #351 of the Chief Change Officer podcast, host Vince Chan engages in a profound conversation with Juliana Schroeder, an esteemed associate professor and psychologist specializing in negotiation, decision-making, and the psychology of human interaction. The episode delves into the intricate relationships between artificial intelligence (AI), power dynamics, and human connection, offering listeners insightful perspectives grounded in rigorous academic research.

Guest Background

Vince Chan introduces Juliana Schroeder by highlighting her impressive academic journey and contributions. With two master's degrees and two PhDs, Juliana has established herself as a leading thinker in organizational management and psychology. Her extensive list of publications, awards, and roles underscores her expertise and dedication to understanding human behavior within organizational contexts.

Juliana Schroeder [04:15]: "I took psychology and economics, and I just completely fell in love with them. I just think it's fascinating to be able to better understand how people think and feel."

Mind Perception and Research Focus

Juliana elaborates on her research focus, emphasizing mind perception—how individuals infer and understand the mental states of others. She explores both top-down (beliefs and stereotypes) and bottom-up (specific interactions and feedback) processes that shape our perceptions of others.

Juliana Schroeder [05:55]: "I study how people come to make inferences about others' minds, considering both top-down influences like stereotypes and bottom-up feedback from interactions."

This dual approach helps uncover the complexities of human judgment and the potential biases that influence our interactions and decision-making processes.

Power and AI: Insights from the 2020 Paper

Vince brings up Juliana's 2020 paper, "Power and Decision Making: New Directions for Research in the Age of Artificial Intelligence," which examines the psychological impact of AI on human perceptions of power.

Juliana Schroeder [11:15]: "When people feel like they have power, that puts them into more of a goal orientation. They make quick decisions, tend to be more instrumental, and may be more overconfident."

The paper posits that interactions with humanized virtual assistants (like Siri or Alexa) can inflate users' subjective sense of power, potentially leading to more assertive and less relationship-focused behaviors. This research was pioneering at the time, anticipating the rise of sophisticated AI agents.

Humanizing Virtual Agents

Juliana discusses the concept of humanization in virtual assistants, differentiating between basic interactive features and deeper, human-like behaviors.

Juliana Schroeder [11:15]: "If people see the virtual agent as an assistant and they humanize it, then I think we would expect to see these results of goal orientation."

She highlights that elements such as voice interaction, making typos, and correcting them can significantly enhance the perception of humanness in AI agents, thereby influencing how users interact with them.

Juliana Schroeder [19:09]: "Voice-to-voice interaction is fundamentally humanizing. When agents make and correct typos, it signals that there's a human-like mind monitoring the conversation."

Evolution and Current Thoughts on AI Agents

The conversation shifts to the evolution of AI agents, particularly with advancements like ChatGPT. Juliana reflects on whether current AI interactions still align with her original theories.

Juliana Schroeder [19:26]: "We theorized that humanized virtual assistants would make people feel more powerful, but with AI like ChatGPT, the dynamic is more nuanced."

While acknowledging that AI technologies have grown more sophisticated, Juliana notes that the initial vision of highly humanized virtual assistants serving as personal servants hasn't fully materialized. Instead, interactions with AI like ChatGPT often feel more like collaborations with intelligent colleagues, without the same power dynamics observed in earlier virtual assistants.

AI in Decision Making: Benefits and Challenges

Vince shares his personal interaction with ChatGPT, noting the balance between leveraging AI for creativity and being wary of confirmation bias.

Vince Chen [21:48]: "I see it more like an advisor, depending on the situation."

Juliana addresses the role of AI in decision-making, emphasizing that AI should complement rather than substitute human judgment. She discusses areas where AI is embraced, such as musical selection, and sectors resistant to full automation, like hiring.

Juliana Schroeder [22:32]: "AI needs to complement and improve our decision-making. For high-stakes decisions, human involvement remains crucial to ensure fairness and accountability."

She also touches on the psychological aspects, including algorithm aversion and the need for transparency in AI processes to build trust and efficacy in human-AI collaborations.

Human-Machine Communication Skills for Future Leaders

In the concluding segment, Vince asks Juliana for advice for future leaders navigating an increasingly human-machine integrated workplace.

Juliana Schroeder [29:54]: "People need to learn how to use technology to their advantage in communication settings. Engage with new technology to improve your abilities to communicate."

Juliana emphasizes the importance of selecting appropriate communication modalities—choosing between synchronous (e.g., video calls) and asynchronous (e.g., emails) platforms based on the context. She also warns against the potential distractions of overusing communication tools and advocates for mindful engagement with technology.

Juliana Schroeder [29:54]: "Be quick to switch modalities and platforms that serve your communication purposes. Use tools like transcription and sentiment analysis wisely to enhance, not hinder, your interactions."

Her advice underscores the necessity for leaders to blend traditional human communication skills with technological proficiency to foster effective and meaningful interactions in diverse professional environments.

Concluding Insights

The episode wraps up with Juliana Schroeder offering a forward-looking perspective on the integration of AI in human interactions. She encourages ongoing research and adaptation to harness AI's benefits while mitigating its challenges.

Juliana Schroeder [19:26]: "The theory would still hold that people feel more powerful when engaging with a humanized virtual agent, leading to more goal-oriented behavior."

Vince thanks Juliana for her invaluable insights, reinforcing the podcast's mission to provide listeners with actionable wisdom for personal and professional transformation.

Notable Quotes:

• Juliana Schroeder [05:55]: "I study how people come to make inferences about others' minds, considering both top-down influences like stereotypes and bottom-up feedback from interactions."

• Juliana Schroeder [11:15]: "If people see the virtual agent as an assistant and they humanize it, then I think we would expect to see these results of goal orientation."

• Vince Chen [21:48]: "I see it more like an advisor, depending on the situation."

Key Takeaways:

1. Mind Perception: Understanding how we perceive others' minds involves both inherent biases and real-time interactions.
2. AI and Power Dynamics: Humanized AI agents can alter users' perceptions of power, influencing their decision-making and behavior.
3. Humanizing Technology: Features that mimic human behaviors in AI can enhance user engagement but also introduce new psychological dynamics.
4. AI in Decision Making: While AI can augment decision-making processes, maintaining human oversight is essential, especially in high-stakes contexts.
5. Communication Skills for Leaders: Future leaders must adeptly navigate and integrate technological tools to enhance, rather than detract from, effective communication.

This episode provides a comprehensive exploration of the intersection between AI, power, and human psychology, offering valuable insights for professionals seeking to thrive in an increasingly digital and interconnected world.