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#371 Monte Wood: Why Generosity Isn’t Just Noble—It’s Strategic — Part One
00:33:53
Monte Wood doesn’t just preach generosity—he’s lived it. In Part One, the former Opus Agency CEO and author of Generosity Wins breaks down why generosity isn’t just good character—it’s a smart way to lead, connect, and succeed.
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- [00:13]
A
Hi everyone. Welcome to our show. Chief Change Officer, I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Our show is a modernist community for change. Progressives in organizational and human transformation from around the world. How many people do you know who actually walk into a public restroom and leave it cleaner than they found it? I do. And so does the wife of our guest. Like me, she does it because she wants to leave it better for the next person. So who is our guest today is Monty Wood, author of the book called Generosity Wins and the former CEO of Opus Agency, a creative branding partner for some of the world's most influential brands. Monty has worked directly with legends like Mark Benief of Salesforce, Andy Gross of Intel, Steve Jobs, John Chambers of Cisco, and Andy Jesse of Amazon. From these leaders, his own mentors and his mother, Monty has learned what generosity truly means, why it matters, and how to apply it to life and career to become more successful, happier and healthier. Curious to find out more, we made a two part series for you. In today's episode, we'll dive into Monty's personal experiences, his definition of generosity, and why he believes so strongly in practicing generosity as a habit. Tomorrow we'll explore what isn't generous, why practicing generosity can be difficult in today's world, and how to nurture a generosity centered mindset. If you are still skeptical about how generosity can lead to success, join us for this conversation. We love for you to be part of the discussion. Let's get started.
- [03:35]
B
In my very early days, probably at the age of 16, I had a young mentor. And that mentor actually gave me a formula about being successful. And part of it was just believing that I could be successful. And then part of it was living a good life, being a generous person. And I believed him. So at a very early age, I had very high aspirations. I grew up in a small town called Milton Freewater in Oregon. Only about 3,500 people in the town. And yet I believed at that point I would someday run a company that was over 100 million in revenue with hundreds of employees. And I believed it right from the very beginning to augment that. Interestingly enough, my mom is one of the most generous people that you will ever meet. The combination of Mike Hinkle, my mentor, and my mom as my mentor in generosity led me to this simple formula that I would become successful by making other people successful. It's pretty simple, but I will tell you is magic. And it worked. I had tremendous success and my goal is really to pass it on and help others do the same. Because not only Was it very good formula? It was a lot of fun.
- [05:14]
A
Yes, I agree with you. In fact, when it comes to leadership, I always describe myself in two ways. First is about walking the walk and talking the talk. Second, I believe in servant leadership. I've been lucky in my corporate career to have worked for bosses who embraced this kind of leadership. They helped me grow, become a better leader, and they made me shine. But in my mind, I don't necessarily call this generosity. I still think of it as an exchange of value. As a subordinate, I help achieve business goals, and in return, they support me, hire me, and take pride in recognizing my talents. When I perform well, it makes them look good, too. It's not just kindness. It's mutually beneficial and drives business results. So I guess what I'm saying is I see it as a leadership style, but not necessarily generosity. Now, I'd love to hear your thoughts. What does generosity mean in the context of leadership, especially in the lessons you've learned from your mentor?
- [06:58]
B
That's a great question, because there is a lot of exchange, as Adam Grant talks about in leadership, where I do something for you and I expect you to do something for me. But great leaders, great servant leaders, care about the person, not just the work being done. They care about the person's family. They care about the person's life. They help them grow. In many cases, I helped employees grow out of our company because the best path for them was to go do something else. They outgrew the jobs they were in and the potential they had within the company. And I took great pride when they left and did something else. I'll give you a simple example. I have a very good friend who owns many franchise stores, Taco Bell franchise stores. He cares about his employees. He actually hired somebody to come in and train his employees how to change their tires, how to balance their checkbooks. It has nothing to do with how to make a taco or how to service their customer. It's about caring for the person. And when you care for somebody, you create a connection. And that connection is really important in everyday life, but even more so in business. I'll give you a much grander example. Marc Benioff of Salesforce, the founder CEO of Salesforce, started the company with the idea of giving a certain percentage of profit to charities. He supported many different organizations. But I will tell you, the most generous thing I ever saw was he could walk through a crowd of his employees and he always remembered their names. He showed them respect. He let them know that he cared for them as people. We would have an event with 2,000 people. And I swear, somehow he knew all of their names. I'm sure he studied before he ever got there. But he truly cared about the individual, not just the job they did. And because of that, they worked very hard for him. They created tremendous success. Andy Grove at Intel is another individual that I worked with and I loved. This man was so humble. You've heard stories probably of the great leadership, and he literally reinvented the semiconductor industry and rejuvenated Intel. But he worked out of a cubicle, he drove an old Toyota truck, and he didn't consider himself any better than anybody else in the company. And he treated everybody as important as the next person, whether they were a vice president or whether they were somebody in the fab making chips. And that is. That's not just doing generous acts. That's being a generous person. And I think they're two different things.
- [10:28]
A
As you were sharing, you brought back some memories of mine from my corporate days 15, 20 years ago. Maybe a lot has changed since then. We had the credit crisis, then the rise of social media with the iPhone and everything that came with it. Then came Covid and now AI. But it's not just about the technology. It's also about mindset shifts and generational gap. By that, I don't just mean the typical you're older, I'm younger kind of gap. It's more than that. Millennials, Gen Z, for example, they've become more vocal. Some of them may be too vocal. Then we got the even younger generation coming in. On the other hand, you got Gen X, baby boomers. There's so much going on in the world that it feels like we've become less connected. In a lot of ways, technology allows us to connect. Like how you and I are talking right now. We wouldn't have met if this tech wasn't democratized like it is today. I mean, even a phone call like this used to be very expensive. So, yes, we are now connected. But I call this connectivity more than true connection, because real connection takes time, patience, and effort. For example, I always insist on a pre call with my podcast guests. I want to get to know them, and I want them to know me so that when we record, our conversation is more natural. I dedicated that time 30 or even 45 minutes because I genuinely care about making a good show. Now, in that case, is that generosity? I'm not expecting anything in return, but at the same time, I know it helps me achieve a certain result. So would you say that is true generosity or Is it more of a behavior with a specific goal in mind?
- [13:23]
B
Let me define generosity. If you go online and search for definitions, they are all over the board. And most of the definitions of generosity focus on giving money. So philanthropy. But generosity is much bigger. So in the book we actually defined generosity is any of giving or kindness when done with no expectation of exchange or return from the recipient. If you are doing this with no expectation of exchange or return from me or from your audience, then that is a pure generosity. That is where the purest power, power of generosity comes. My guess is you're not doing your podcast because you want to be famous or you want to make a lot of money. My guess is you actually truly desire to help people and make a difference in the world. And I appreciate that. And that's a driving force for many successful people. Right. There's a scientific study that says that humans are the only species that give, are generous with those that they will never associate with or never meet. In other words, they're generous beyond their family, beyond their community, beyond those that they will ever know. That's a human trait. And that trait is actually credited with the helping of creating societies and even a global community of such.
- [15:11]
A
Of course you want to make an impact from that angle. I guess you could say it's a form of generosity because I don't really expect anything in return from the listeners. But I do care about that. Whatever I say or you say or any guest on the show says has some kind of impact, even if it's just a minute, a one minute impact for someone who listens, that would already make me really happy.
- [15:54]
B
Yes, and I agree. So my book probably will not sell 100,000 copies, but I will tell you, Vince, that I've had 25 or 30 people tell me the book changed their lives for the better. I had one person just last week came up and said that she changed jobs because she realized in reading the book that the people she worked for were not generous people and that she did not want to be in that situation. And she moved to another job. And she said it's the best thing that has happened to her in many years. So that kind of thing is just such a beautiful reward. In fact, it spurs me to ask you a question. Is it selfish to be authentically generous? So again, with no expectation of exchange or return from. From the recipient in order to create your own success.
- [17:02]
A
The first thing that comes to my mind is if I'm being generous and generosity helps me succeed, doesn't that make it selfish? Does generosity Leading to success mean there's some hidden self interest? Is that why you're asking?
- [17:29]
B
Yes.
- [17:32]
A
If you ask me, selfish usually carries a negative connotation. When we call someone selfish, it's typically not a good thing. So when you mention that genuine generosity helps you become more successful, is that selfish? I would say no, I wouldn't use the word selfish. I would call it self awareness. If I believe in the principle that generosity wins, it becomes part of my attitude and behavior. I'm following my own path based on principles I truly believe in. From the outside. People might think I'm focused on what I want, but it's more about knowing who I am and what I stand for. Maybe some could call that selfish, but I would just call it being clear and committed to my values.
- [18:48]
B
Yeah, I think your initial response no is a good answer. I actually believe that focusing on generosity, helping others, right, to pave the way for your own success isn't being selfish, it's just being wise. And this is a hard concept for people to understand. But truly generous people, if you read up, if you pick up any book on success, there's a number of things they'll tell you are going to lead to success. At the top of the list is always relationships. Close relationship in relationships. Harvard just published their study, their 50 year study. And the most important aspect of happiness for individuals out of their study was relationships, connected, close relationships. Now the self help books are going to tell you confidence. Then they're going to say mindset and then they're going to say trust and then they're going to say your own emotional well being. And I believe that being a generous person leads to all of those. So being a generous person leads to success. If you know that, then you have a North Star, you have something that you can focus on every day. You can attract success versus desperately pursuing it. And I think attracting it by being a generous person is a much more rewarding way of going through life. So let's break that down a little bit. Relationships. Everybody knows that generous people develop relationships faster and more meaningful. Courage. Let's talk about confidence and courage. Most studies will tell you that it takes courage. It takes confidence to be generous. To do generous acts takes a certain degree of confidence. So you're actually practicing how to be courageous and how to be confident by being generous. Mindset. Let me ask you, do you think you will feel like you're more deserving of success if you're helping other people or if you're cheating other people in life?
- [21:23]
A
Of course it's the former.
- [21:25]
B
Right. So you're going to feel like you're more deserving of life. So your mindset is better trust. If you are really an authentically generous person with yourself, with others, with the world, do you think people will trust you more? And of course, that's a rhetorical question. The answer is yes. Right. But the other thing is that your own emotional well being when you do generous, and it'd be interesting if you ask ChatGPT, what are the scientific benefits of being generous? They'll show you all of these studies and all of these benefits, listen, it's beautiful, but they're actually your body. The hormone levels change, the dopamine levels change. Oxycodone is released in the body when you're generous. So you actually are healthier when you're a generous person. So all of these things lead you to being a more generous person by helping others. And knowing that is just a wise thing, it's not a selfish thing. I see generosity as a win. When you're authentically generous with somebody with no expectations from them, they win. There's no doubt about that. That's simple. But there are many studies that say when you're generous with somebody like that, they're much more likely to be generous with other people. It creates a ripple effect. So the world is actually a better place when you're generous with somebody. If all of these things add up to you being more generous, then it's a win. The person you're giving to wins. The world wins and you win. And that's why I believe it's a superpower. That's why I believe that generosity wins. And I'll tell you another thing. There's nothing as beautiful as going through life and creating success for yourself by helping others with no expectation. Because in the end, you look back and you're just as proud. You're proud of what you did, but you're even more proud of how you did it. And there's a great happiness, there's a great joy that comes from being proud of how you lived.
- [24:02]
A
I remember seeing the term generosity loi in your book, meaning generosity's return on investment. We live in a capitalist world and in business we are always focused on KPI's financial metrics. But generosity is tricky to quantify. Like you said, don't expect a direct return. So it doesn't fit the typical model of roi. And if we try to measure or track the cost and return of generosity, it starts to feel less like true generosity. But let's assume we Want to monitor it? How do we make sense of this roi? What does it really mean in the context of generosity?
- [25:14]
B
This goes back to our discussion about is it selfish to be generous to create your success? And I will tell you that I believe there is a tremendous return on generosity. The roi, the return on investment for generosity may be higher than any other human behavior that you can put in place. Now, you do not expect return from who you're being generous with, right? No exchange or return from who you're being generous with or the group that you're being generous with, or the bathroom that you cleaned when you walked out. There is no return from the individual. But life gives you a tremendous return on your investment of generosity. There's a lot of philosophers that will talk about it. You can do research on karma, you can research the science of generosity and how it returns, how it affects you positively, but there is a tremendous return on investment. So the answer is, it's not intuitive, right? Because you're right, you don't expect anything from whom you are generous with, but you do know that by being generous, it's going to come back to you in exponential form.
- [26:53]
A
You've mentioned before when defining generosity that there's a lot of misconceptions about it. In the media, that's one thing. But tell us, why do you think there's so much misunderstanding about generosity in general? What are some of the myths you would like to debunk in this interview? Share with us?
- [27:24]
B
There's a couple that are really important. The first one is that generosity is about giving money. Giving money is a very minor component of generosity. I sat in a room with a Buddhist, a Tibetan Buddhist monk last week. And I was listening to him talk about the wisdom of the monks. And one of the things he said just absolutely blew my mind. He stopped and then he looked at the room and he said, even the smallest act of generosity, when done with the right intent, can be tremendously powerful. And I thought, how cool is that? It reminded me of a story that I read in the New York Times about a police officer in San Francisco who his sole job was following up on suicides off of the Golden Gate Bridge. People who jumped off the Golden Gate Bridge. He went to the bedroom of a young man, 26 years old, and on his dresser there was a suicide note. And basically the note said, nobody cares about me. Nobody sees me. I won't be missed. I'm going to go to the Golden Gate Bridge and I'm going to jump. But it's a five mile walk. And if one person smiles at me or talks to me in this five mile walk, I won't jump. The sad part of that, Vince, is the young man jumped. One smile could have saved his life. I will tell you that we live in a world where there's so much loneliness, there's an epidemic of loneliness, there's an epidemic of depression. And generosity is an antidote to those things. And a smile, a sincere smile, is one of the easiest things to give and literally can change somebody's chemistry. You can change the chemistry in somebody's body by looking at them intently and giving them a meaningful smile. That is generosity. You may walk right by that person, but you left them with something. You may never see them again. You have no expectation, but you may have changed their lives. And I see it all the time. How many people do you know that actually walk into a public restroom and leave it cleaner than when they went in? My wife does that. She does it because she wants it to be better for the next person that goes in.
- [30:10]
A
I also do that.
- [30:11]
B
It's such a beautiful thing. And you don't consider that generosity, but it is. You'll never know the people that benefited from you doing that, but you're doing something and they may learn from it and pass it on. That's how we change the world. I like to say, and this is a little bit far reaching, but I like to say that generosity is a form of consciousness and not generous acts. But being a fully generous person, walking around with the intent of being generous, you have to actually be aware of what's going on around you to be effectively generous. And if you are that aware, you're more conscious. And if you are more conscious, all of the studies show that you are going to be a happier, more joyous person. So even that form of generosity comes back to you. Karma is real. There's. Karma's been written about for 2000 years. So karma is something that is not a new concept. And generosity has been written about. You can't pick up any. You can't pick up the Bible, the Quran, the Jewish Bible, the Book of Mormon. They all talk about the importance of generosity. Almost every philosopher has talked about how important being considerate and caring about others is for your own well being. So philosophers have talked about it for years. I don't know why in society today we seem to ignore this tremendous power, this opportunity to be happy and conscious of and successful ourselves by helping others, by helping the world. It's such a powerful opportunity that if I could stand on the highest mountain and scream. Please understand this for your benefit.
- [32:37]
A
Just now, Monty shared his personal experiences, his definition of generosity, and why he believes so strongly in practicing generosity as a habit. Tomorrow in part two, we'll explore what a isn't generous, why practicing generosity can be challenging in today's world, and how to nurture a generosity centered mindset. Come back for part two. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show. Leave us top rated reviews. Check out our website and follow me on social media. I'm this Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.