A (8:37)

Qr in your self introduction, two words caught my attention. Change addict and change guru. How do you define these two terms?

B (8:50)

Regina is a lovely city and like I said, I grew up here and I grew up at a time when it was pretty traditional. Most of us looked the same. There wasn't a whole lot of ways to skinny fit the right word to use. And so there wasn't a lot of novelty. At least from my perspective. If you wanted to, you could. You grew up here, you went to university, you got a degree in administration, and we're a government town. So you go work for the government, you'd find your partner, start a family and so on. So path was pretty, pretty much laid out and that really wasn't me. And at the time I didn't know, I wasn't sure what I was looking for, but I knew that wasn't the path that I wanted to take. And so the only thing I could do is basically have my radar on high alert for anything that sort of caught my interest. And that's where I get to the change attic. It's a lot about novelty. Oh, wouldn't it be neat if I moved to Kenya and I worked for a bank? Or wouldn't it be cool if I went to China and I studied and when I hear people say that, I'm always encouraging them to consider it. But the question afterwards is what thing, for what purpose you could go and you could study where you live now because of all the opportunities we have and online and the virtual world has made it easy. For example us today, you're in Hong Kong, I'm in Redango. We're and very easily we can do whatever we want. Well, why do you need why do you need to go there and do that? And if the answer that comes back a lot of I don't know, I saw a movie in China looks really neat or oh, I saw that one person social media that they do this and they're being super successful. So why would not be neat? And I don't think it's a bad answer. But the reality is that you got to have a little bit more planning behind it. I and I lived the the attic lifestyle. Like I said. I I moved picked up and moved Thailand. And then one day in Thailand I don't really teaching English to adults. And at the university I want to go somewhere where there's no Burger king, there's no 7 11, there's no this, there's no that. And I basically walked into a travel agent. Where can I go? That I bored and she said go to Myanmar. So I did. I went to Myanmar, knew nothing about it, took a suitcase and then I lived there for a year and a half learning my way. I was there. But looking back, that was just novel. Oh, it's foreign, it's new, it's different, it's unknown. I'll leap into it and don't do it as a single person. Now anyone can do that. But it didn't really have a purpose in mind. And the thing is, novelty is great, but novelty wears off. You're there for a year and a half and then you wake up one morning and it happens again. Oh, on board. Now I've done this. I. I've learned these things that I'm really cool and interesting and okay, let's go move here or let's go try this or let's do whatever. The other thing that I might have is that change attic. Like whenever you're shipped with some kind of adversity, it takes as much if not more focus to get through to the end. The lucky thing for me was, well, I've started this degree. I got to finish it or started in this job. I got to be here at least this amount of time or started learning this language focus at least enough so I can do some kind of benchmark. And it's a lot. It's a lot harder when you have to do that when it is just chasing novelty. So I think, yeah, like the change addict part, there's a lot of people that will do that. And actually I'm a little bit different if you start something and it's not for you, you should really just chuck it in and go find the thing that you want. There's opportunity cost, as we all know. Right. But if you don't wrap things up or if you don't complete them to a certain extent later on, I don't really know how you could pull out the value and as we get into other topics, but maybe you can apply it Timor, but if you haven't finished it, you're never going to get there. So the way that I came about this concept of change addict, and addict is the harsh word, but you really can be to change and to know.

A (13:22)

So being a change addict in Google, would you say you're one of those who puts in a good amount of calculation behind each change, or is it more like, oh, it's just that feeling? What type are you? Have you ever thought about that?

B (13:43)

No. That's a great question, Vince. And I think at the beginning it's all going to be in hindsight, which is lovely to have, but I think at the time it was like I mentioned adversity, but. And I also mentioned boredom. For me, like when I didn't have responsibility. Right. It's just me. I'm the one that's responsible for myself. I gotta feed, clothe, house me. There were many times where I was just like, you know what, I'm gonna change it and quit my job and I don't have anything out or I don't really have a plan to do anything else and. And I'll just see what happens. And that's dangerous. There are people that can do it, but I don't like it. So I'm not going to push through the adversity. It's not going to help you later on in life. Absolutely. If you're not happy with where you are and you're not, you don't think you're where you can be or you're not being supported the way that you would like, then you certainly should look for other avenues and talk a lot people and try different things. But you can try different things while you're doing something else that allows you to do that exploration. If you're just doing it because somebody has slighted you. When I was in Myanmar, I just woke up one day and said, I have $300, I'm a bank account, I live a very good life, but I'm never going to have anything if I ever decided to leave here, so why don't I just go? And I was out in a week. But it's not. I could have done it in a much more thoughtful way and I might be an odd cat in that move to so many places and I've done whatever. Maybe that's not going to be the way of the world in the future. But you only get, I would think in your life a bunch of major changes. So you really shouldn't minimize the impact and the importance of about the change of the time. Really give yourself some time to think about, like why am I really unhappy? What do I really want to do? I don't know what I want to do. What are some things I can figure out that might lead me. Have I thought in my head and built some scenario planning? Or I'm like, what's going to happen if you do it? Am I going to regret it? Regret's an awful thing and we're always going to have it. But I think you can minimize it if you got a little bit thoughtfulness around why you're leaping to change something. Is it really just today I'm having a bad day and I had a bad interaction or is it, you know what, it's been building up for a long time and I shouldn't be here. I need to go find my place in my tribe. So I think, yeah, like a lot of those different components are really important for figuring out am I addicted to change or am I welcoming of it? And I'm using it at Yule to help me find a better place.

A (16:27)

Digital Riser like you said, one of the threats running through your experience is change and strategy. You've worked with so many firms and organizations guiding them through their transformations. So you must have seen countless business cases unfold. What have you learned from these consulting projects and organizational change initiatives that could apply to individual situations? Are there lessons for these business cases that also resonate on a personal level, especially when we face dilemmas or crossroads in our own lives?

B (17:14)

Yeah, and I think Samir, this is. That's a great question. Again, Rin and I did some soul searching in that I have worked in a number of bothly mainstream and odd cases of change in a variety of different countries and industries. Organization potentially. There's two things I would want to start off with and there's it's a misconception, some common misconceptions I see about chain and again we're talking like in an organizational or a business or even a personal professional way. And the first one is we have these people and I support them. Embrace change. Embrace change. It's the same thing as like you're embracing change for success and then how are we defining success? Is it simply a bunch of key performance indicators and some sales figures and revenue? Is it keeping people? Is it launching ourselves into a brand new space to be while being successful? Is it keeping diets cold? There's a whole variety of different ways to do it and embracing change for success is fine. But don't do it just for the sake of success because the true impact really comes when you are your guiding strategic and focus change. And that's a whole different arena with a lot of complicated parameters and and you asked me about some specific examples so I think I've got two. And I'm going to make them personal to me because change is personal. One example is going to be a bit of a surprise to people because they will have read potentially how traditional this country is and this was Japan. So I lived in Japan, as I mentioned for quite a long time and then they worked with Japanese organizations or machines for an equal of the Yuvang created. And I have found yes value and worth put on traditional practice. And that also varies across industry. And lo and behold I also worked in a very traditional industry light return but from the out, from the outside it does look like it's stuck. Practices are the same, they move along. So when I was working for one of the big organization, yeah there wasn't a lot of, there wasn't a lot of airtime given to hey, why don't we try this? Or hey, why don't we, why don't we consider something completely different. There was incremental change. Change or introduction of new things and then luck would have it, I ended up traveling to a developing market. A couple of senior people from that and looked around and just started noticing dots and then thinking hey, we should connect these dots to make something unique. I'm with the Japanese life insurance company. We're in Brazil. We're seeing something that's a bit unique in Japan. One of the largest minorities are Yuri and they are people who travel to Japan as youth. They have access to visas and other things and they start their working life in Japan. So they're actually indoctrinated. They learn working culture from being in Japanese companies. A lot of the men otherwise they learned things like hey, life insurance is important, you need to have it. The discussion one, how are we going to go build this business idea? And what came about was I learned that change, individual, team and otherwise comes from talk doing a lot of promotion. So Japan is a lot about individual conversations to get support or get Direction. Big organizations are great at providing that direction, but often indirect. You have to be acute direction. So hey, why don't we consider this? Why don't we do that? But also it measured and it's planned change. You can't just come up with an idea and throw it at people and get them to say yes or no. You've got to research your idea. This is the market side. These are the people, what they would buy. This is how it would benefit them if they stayed where they are or then when they moved back. This is how we could then dovetail or a pipeline into getting new people in a new market we might make. So it took a lot of time, but I was very surprised and very proud that we actually managed to get this kind of a. Got support from lovely people within the organization. They provided their time to meet. We moved ahead. It took two years. But the change did happen. And it was actually a real shining example of just because you think a culture and a group of people are traditional in their practices doesn't mean they're averse to change. You just need to be on that change addict thing we were talking about, not willy nilly, not, hey, let's just do it for the sake of doing it. Be measured, be strategic, be researched in what you want to change and then find the kind and supportive voices. And if you find enough of them, you'll get groundswell and you'll be able to do it. If you don't, maybe your idea really isn't that great. Maybe you need to go back to the drawing. So learn to take the, the interest and the novelty and the energy that comes from a potential change and have it fuel you to do the really important steps, the fundamental steps to maybe make that change happen in the. The flip side would be actually back here in Canada, I work for a quite traditional marketing company. Probably if I tell you who it is, people will know regularly. They brought me in as a changed person. That's how I was recruited. Please come here. We know our industry is on the decline. We're not really entirely sure where to go with it. We've seen what you did in other places. We're eager to change. We want to transform. They used all the right words. They were very receptive to the ideas. Before I moved in house, I got in there and I asked, do you want me to be disruptive? Would you like me to push new initiatives? Absolutely. This is what we want. And within a month of me doing that, we don't really like it, or that was a little Too much. The reality is they were a different kind of ad. They were hooked on a legacy of very high revenue and high profile profit margin. And they weren't willing. They really weren't willing. And they hadn't done the time to figure out do we want to change? Are we willing to forego some of that to potentially make it somewhere else? Or maybe not. And even though they had all of the support, allegedly support from people above and their ownership and others, they were in incredibly reluctant do it. So I was sitting in a role where change was in my title, but I couldn't do anything. And I had tried, I had built up goodwill, I got some champion. I was doing everything that change management told you to do. Pushing the needle here, scaling it here. And for the time period that I was there, they were wholly unwilling to take on. And at a certain point I had to, you know what? It isn't gonna work for me. I'm pushing the, the rock uphill as whatever the Greek myth is, and I'm not getting anywhere. And I'm being told two different stories. So we dig into it which might have really that like an external push from other people so we don't want to do it. And it ended up being a failure for myself. And it's something that I, I've taken on and I accept and learned a lot of really good lessons from it and frankly had some work with some wonderful people that were driven to do it. But when the entire organization has been dictated change and not really trusting of the person who's supposed to pilot it, then it's not going to happen. But in this instance, it's a little bit about. It's maybe less about the change addicting, but learning about that change guru, if that's a good word, or change guide, which is all right, maybe we need to take a step back, figure out what is your definition of change. Is it collectively the same? Do we all think it's just a good idea? Okay, maybe we need to tailor it a little more specific and then move on from there. And that's hopefully where I am now and how I actually go about it a little bit more. It there's a little bit less. Less. Put on the gas more. Let's put the car in park for a second and let's have a talk. We'll drive a block down the road and then we're going to have another talk and that way we can get to the kind of again, change that we're all trying to achieve and back to that definition of success. It's not just keep that directed by the outside or financial reinvolvement the wholesome way that we're going to evolve and change for the better.

A (26:42)

Just now Colin unpacked his unique perspective on change. Change addict turned change guru. From leaving Canada with nothing but a suitcase and ambition to navigating industries from telecommunications to financial services, Coland shared how the constant evolution around him became his greatest teacher. In Part two tomorrow we'll explore the learning required for transformation Coland I don't even know how many degrees under his belt why Colin believes lifelong learning is outdated and skills stacking is the future. In part three for Friday we'll tackle AI human intelligence and why every one of us needs a personal AI strategy. Come back tomorrow and join us. Thank you so much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, leave us top rated reviews, check out our website and follow me on social media on this Chan, your ambitious human host. Until next time, take care.