Vince Chen (4:49)

Tell us how you made through this transition.

Jin Zhao (4:53)

I got into sociology in Shanghai and first I just didn't know what I should deal with so when I picked up accounting and finance as my second and third majors I figured one day I need to know more about business know more about entrepreneurs. I choose to intern in all these venture capitals in China I wanted to know how the entrepreneurs what they are thinking about every day and how they run a business Because I have a goal to start my own business one day. So in my family we have a travel company and and also running a medical company so that's how we we have such a tradition. So I formed this kind of goal when I was very young. So in Chicago booth I set a framework for the business analysis and the accounting and finance helped me understand the business knowledge and through the venture capital I learned how entrepreneurs how they swim in competitive world and how they run their companies. So this is a foundation set up for my future plan later on I find that sociology helped me open my world to the world and also know more about people. So the help of the sociology is the business world is finally a world between people and people the understanding on the social mind and thoughts will finally help understand the rules in the business world and the essence of the business. And the second help of sociology for me right now is a designing, choosing story tests the maturity and the insight of the producer Especially on her knowledge of the society and human heart. So it's actually a lot of help. That's what I didn't think figure out before but I really appreciate it now.

Vince Chen (6:54)

Despite your passion for TV series, how did you build your track record? How did you grow your network in the entertainment industry and eventually launch your first TV series?

Jin Zhao (7:12)

When I was very young, like 6 or 7 years old, the TV programming always broadcast to 10pm in the night But I was forced to go to bed at 9pm so that probably is the early impulse for the decision to finally become a producer. So in 2018, after I watched a TV series called Ashes of Love I feel like it's just the best thing in the world to do such a project and once in life we need to try. So I looked for the producer of that drama crazily and I applied my writer resources and I kept showing my passion. So I convinced him to be the co producer of the sequel to the Ashes of Love. The sequel is called Ash is called the Stereo Love and that was the one that was released last year on four TV stations and distributed to 30 countries. I was the co producer in the content area of that sequel. So through this project I built my network and I accumulated my reputation. And as the co producer, in terms of convincing business partners, I think the first thing is you really need to have previous projects or previous relevant experience and you need to have a splendid scripts on your hand and you need to have a detailed development plan, distribution plan, and of course potential great directors and actors. So that's how we can accomplish this.

Vince Chen (9:03)

It's the classic chicken and egg dilemma. From your experience, how did you overcome this challenge to take that crucial first step? How did you gain recognition early on so as to build momentum and eventually move up and accelerate your career?

Jin Zhao (9:29)

I think the first thing is definitely you need to first establish some connection with this industry. This is a must. But it doesn't mean that you need to work three or five years in the industry to prove that you have the experience. Like for example, in my cases, I only work in the upstream chain of this entertainment industry. I work in a radio technology. That company is not a entertainment company or it's not a drama series, movie company or producing company. But that company has a lot of connection with the copyrights. So that's how I entered entertainment industry, from the resources. Because I got connected with a lot of writers and the writers, later on they become a very key resource in the producing. In this area, I think I have a business analytical framework to analyze all problems. So in this industry, after taking a close look, you will figure out that the most the core thing is accountant. So from the very beginning I focus on the accountant side and I communicate with writers, which I didn't do that a lot 10 years ago, but I started and I learned to communicate with all the creators, the writers, directors, actors. I try to understand how to, how to make the content look best. So that's the first thing. And secondly, I know the business language, the entertainment industry, the TV drama or the movie. It's a very capital intensive industry. So on the producing side, on the business side, you need to manage the business by managing cash flow and managing all the numbers on your balance sheet or on your four forms. Because I come from the business background, I can translate all these elements into all tools that I need to use. So I am aware of all the risks and all the opportunities.

Vince Chen (11:44)

Absolutely, yes.

Jin Zhao (11:46)

After you established connection with the industry, you may take the risk to do a whole project to show that you will have further experience, but that Step is definitely very hard, but you can focus on the key of the projects. So the key in the producing projects is content. We all agree that content is the most important element in the trends if you spend a lot of time in the content. For example, I spent a year writing the book the Light of the Story. So I analyzed many elements in the story. I figured out some ways to draft a great story and that's the resources and that's the skills that investors would value in the entire chain.

Vince Chen (12:41)

From what I've gathered, there's no such thing as pure luck or magic behind success in today's social media driven world where people make overnight success seem real. But the truth is every success story is built on a lot of groundwork. You shared how writing a book became a learning journey for you. Similarly, it's about getting closer to the right circles, meeting relevant people, learning from them, letting them get to know you and fostering relationships. That's how opportunities start to align with your interests. Even if the first step is more like taking an unpaid job, it gets you in the door and builds momentum. But I remember you mentioning that when you decided to leave your previous job to pursue your passion for tv, the industry wasn't exactly booming. It was already facing challenges. And then Covid hit making things even harder. Yet you still took that leap, perhaps partly for educational purposes. So I'm curious, what was the state of the TV industry in China when you decided to make that transition? How did the pandemic reshape things and what's happening now in the industry?

Jin Zhao (14:13)

Ten years ago, everybody was looking at this industry and people from all kinds of industries, they wanted to come here to make quick money and speculators on how money they actually in the past 10 years, they gradually left this industry at the beginning of any drama TV projects. It's really hard to get money right now and we have micro drama series impacting our industry. So the situation, it's just hard. But the good thing is the technology and the content, the bar for is getting higher and higher and the audience demands more and more and they are.

Vince Chen (14:55)

Willing to pay more.

Jin Zhao (14:56)

So therefore there are more and more great projects coming right now. If there are people still in our industry, they are just people who really love this industry. They love great work and they have passion for great projects. The best writers and best projects, they make more money than ever before. I will just say for quality creators, they are getting better.

Vince Chen (15:25)

So you were saying there was a flood of hot money, short term, speculative, opportunistic investment driving the entertainment industry 10 years ago. Then came the rise of social media and the Internet, which opened the floodgates to content of all kinds. With that surge, naturally came a lot of junk, low quality and poorly produced material that overwhelmed the industry. You mentioned something interesting. Micro drama series. This format seems to have gained traction in China. What exactly is a micro drama series in a Chinese context? How does it differ from traditional format and what's driving its popularity?

Jin Zhao (16:24)

It's like one made for one episode. There are like 100 episodes for a entire series. It will be circulated among many people and they can watch the first three or 10 episodes for free. But for the 11th one they need to pay. And people pay a lot on these kind of series.

Vince Chen (16:50)

So you're saying that these micro drama series are essentially a volume driven strategy by tech companies. They invest in creating content such as hiring writers to craft stories and shooting short series. The initial episodes are free, drawing in viewers, and once the audience is hooked, they introduce a paywall starting around episode 11. It sounds like a clever subscription model. And I imagine they also monetize through advertisements. Your industry in the Chinese context is people focused and people driven. Engaging with so many different parties is essential to getting things done. But in the US for example, the launch of OpenAI and other AI driven tech companies, industries like media, news and Hollywood have felt significant ripple effects. We've seen things like strikes in Hollywood over concerns about job losses with AI potentially replacing roles like script writers, producers and others in the production process. What about China? AI is a hot topic there in your industry. Have you seen AI being integrated yet? Or maybe it's already causing some tension or discussions about its potential impact compared with us?

Jin Zhao (18:43)

China is still at the very early stage of applying AI, but I know it's very helpful for the post production. It will generate higher efficiency in some special effects for the movies and TV dramas. It's getting cheaper and getting more efficient. However, I think it's the impact on the writing on the screenplay is very limited because scripts are tailored arts and the essence of the content is beating expectations. But AI is the summary of past material. So the results of many AI projects are like a kind of a Wikipedia introduction, outlines. It has great discrepancies with fully developed script. So if a writer submits the work as is, the script with this quality might not be purchased. I think in China people are not quite worried about this at this moment.

Vince Chen (19:44)

Speaking of AI versus Human, I have to bring up your book. Light of Story is in Chinese, not yet available in English, but is more than a guide on how to tell stories in TV and film. It's also about using stories to create both commercial and and social impact. One phrase from the book really stood out to me. Translated into English, it says human nature remains unchanged but people's hearts are changing. That feels so true and philosophical. Perhaps influenced by your sociology background. So given your understanding of the past and the future of the entertainment industry in China, what are some of your future plans for your company?

Jin Zhao (20:53)

For the next two to three years we are planning on several ronas. So the first runner I will be developing will be in the social issues and social topics and focusing on small figures and their comic and tragic experience and small figures with inciting incidents to perform act character art to generate themes in social mind and human nature. For example, mentally harmed people when they hurt other people whether they are guilty or not when family and friends if they have secrets whether they could be forgiven. So we hope to dig into people's reflection and showcase ethics in human relationship. This is our first roundup. The second track is continuing focusing on the love sector. Ancient love and modern love. China has very extensive and profound culture. It will make the ancient love topic more extreme in the background in the history for the modern love. It will showcase under the fast growing economy the fairness and freedom of the love relationship. It fills audience with trust and aspiration for love and good life. To note that the derivatives of ancient love stories are always the best sellers. So they will have diary books, eyeshadows, live concerts and those things make more money than the drama project itself. Right now the third direction is about feel good shows. It's about individuals dreaming big. It records stories on how the protagonist strives for success. For example, a farmer takes a small workshop to ipo. A nobody in turn becomes somebody. In the end it's more about the entrepreneurship, spirit and tenacity and this will encourage audience to face obstacles positively and it's always a necessity in the market and we are mostly focusing on these three areas in the following years.

Vince Chen (23:12)

Thank you so much. Thank you very much for joining us today. If you like what you heard, don't forget, subscribe to our show, Leave us top rated reviews. Check out our website and follow me on social media. I'm Vince Chen, your ambitious human host. Until next time, Take care.