Chief Change Officer Podcast Summary
Episode: #405 Richard Carson: Diagnosing Dysfunction, One Broken System at a Time — Part One
Release Date: June 2, 2025
Host: Vince Chan

Introduction

In Episode #405 of the Chief Change Officer podcast, host Vince Chan welcomes Richard Carson, a seasoned consultant and strategist renowned for his profound insights into organizational change management. Titled "Diagnosing Dysfunction, One Broken System at a Time — Part One," this episode delves into Richard's unique approach to identifying and resolving systemic issues within organizations.

Guest Introduction: Richard Carson's Journey

Richard Carson begins by sharing his eclectic career path, emphasizing his philosophy of "carpe diem" or "seize today." Unlike a meticulously planned trajectory, Richard's career has been a series of opportunistic pivots driven by his interests and passions.

Richard Carson [02:15]:
"I like to characterize my kind of philosophy as carpe diem or SEIZE today... I've been very happy with that."

Starting with aspirations in archaeology, Richard transitioned to architecture and urban planning before venturing into community development and, ultimately, organizational consulting. This adaptive journey reflects his commitment to addressing real-world problems as they arise.

Evolving Interests and Entering Consulting

Vince highlights Richard's unplanned yet fulfilling career evolution, noting the authenticity and organic growth of his professional experiences.

Vince Chan [03:30]:
"...your path wasn't perfect, it was real. It unfolded step by step."

Richard elaborates on his love for community engagement, recounting his tenure as the regional planning director for the Portland Metro area. However, it was his move into consulting—sparked by his fascination with performance audits and organizational problem-solving—that truly ignited his passion for change management.

Richard Carson [06:20]:
"...I went into work for these people because I loved it so much, it was so interesting... my evolution of how I started out digging in the dirt and not liking it and moving on to helping organizations with their problems."

Understanding and Diagnosing Organizational Problems

A central theme of the episode is Richard's approach to diagnosing and addressing organizational dysfunction. He emphasizes that what clients often perceive as problems are merely symptoms of deeper, underlying issues.

Richard Carson [07:05]:
"Whenever somebody comes to you and says we have this problem we want you to help us with, chances are they're wrong... they're afraid, change scares people."

Richard shares a case study involving a county government in Southern California, illustrating how initial surface-level complaints masked more complex systemic issues. His method involves engaging with frontline staff and stakeholders to uncover the true root causes of problems.

The Evolution of Change Management Models

Vince steers the conversation towards the history and evolution of change management models, probing whether the fundamental principles have shifted over time.

Vince Chan [12:43]:
"How have these models evolved over time?..."

Richard provides a concise history, tracing back to Kurt Lewin's seminal three-phase model introduced in 1947: Unfreeze, Change, and Refreeze. He notes that despite numerous models emerging since then, most retain the core structure established by Lewin.

Richard Carson [17:06]:
"...I came up with 22 from about, from Kurt Lewin to about 2016..."

He critiques the stagnation in innovation within change management frameworks, leading him to develop his own comprehensive model.

Introducing "People Sustained Organizational Change Management"

Richard unveils his proprietary model, aptly named People Sustained Organizational Change Management, which builds upon Lewin's foundation by deeply integrating the human element into every phase of change.

Richard Carson [19:30]:
"It's people. Sustained organizational change management... you have to really have engaged people in the process."

Key Components of the Model:

1. Initiation (Problem Identification and Scoping):

   • Problem Identification: Clearly defining and understanding the issue.
   • Kickoff Meetings: Engaging all organizational levels to introduce the change process and garner buy-in.

2. Assessment:

   • Data Collection: Analyzing reports, statistics, and media to gather relevant information.
   • Stakeholder Meetings: Directly interacting with vendors, consumers, and other stakeholders to obtain diverse perspectives.

3. Diagnostic Approach:

   • Adopting Medical Diagnostic Models: Borrowing methodologies from healthcare to accurately diagnose organizational ailments, recognizing that organizations mirror human systems.

4. Implementation:

   • Process Mapping and Re-engineering: Redefining workflows to align with desired change outcomes.
   • Locking in Change: Ensuring sustainability through leadership coaching, staff training, and Total Quality Management (TQM).

5. Maintenance:

   • Multi-Year Strategic Plans: Allocating resources and establishing accountability for long-term change.
   • Feedback Loops: Regularly reviewing benchmarks to assess progress and make necessary adjustments.

Richard Carson [22:16]:
"...you have to really listen. And that's why we I. The initial phases of the model are sitting down with managers, line staff, stakeholders."

Strategies for Successful Change Implementation

Richard underscores the necessity of creating dedicated roles, such as a Change Manager, to oversee the transformation process. This role ensures continuous monitoring and accountability, distinguishing it from traditional managerial positions that may have conflicting priorities.

Richard Carson [20:10]:
"I created a position of change manager. Now you go into organizations and you aren't going to find a lot of titles of change manager..."

He advocates for developing multi-year strategic plans that not only outline the path for change but also allocate the necessary resources to support sustained transformation.

Challenges in Change Management

The conversation also touches upon common obstacles, such as resistance from individuals who are comfortable with the status quo. Richard highlights that effective change management must address these fears by clearly communicating the benefits of change and involving employees in the decision-making process.

Richard Carson [08:56]:
"A lot of times what happens is... I want buy in from them."

He compares different leadership styles, noting that collaborative approaches foster greater acceptance compared to authoritarian methods that induce fear and resistance.

Richard Carson [10:25]:
"...if you work on this, your life, your career, your work environment will be better, not worse."

Conclusion and Tease for Part Two

As the episode concludes, Vince summarizes the key takeaways from Richard's insights into diagnosing and managing organizational dysfunction. He hints at deeper explorations in the forthcoming second part, where Richard is expected to delve into the "real playbook" of his 39-step change model and discuss the often-overlooked human aspects of consulting.

Vince Chan [28:51]:
"We’ve heard how Richard stumbled into consulting, survived a time tracking nightmare and started seeing patterns in all the wrong problems. But next we get into the real playbook, the book of change..."

Listeners are encouraged to subscribe and stay tuned for the continuation of this enlightening discussion.

Notable Quotes

• Richard Carson [02:15]:
  "I like to characterize my kind of philosophy as carpe diem or SEIZE today... I've been very happy with that."

• Vince Chan [03:30]:
  "...your path wasn't perfect, it was real. It unfolded step by step."

• Richard Carson [08:56]:
  "A lot of times what happens is... I want buy in from them."

• Vince Chan [12:43]:
  "How have these models evolved over time?..."

• Richard Carson [19:30]:
  "It's people. Sustained organizational change management... you have to really have engaged people in the process."

Key Takeaways

• Adaptive Career Paths: Richard Carson's non-linear career trajectory underscores the value of seizing opportunities and adapting to evolving interests.

• Deep Diagnostic Approach: Effective change management requires identifying root causes rather than addressing superficial symptoms.

• Human-Centric Models: Sustainable organizational change hinges on engaging and empowering people at all levels.

• Dedicated Change Roles: Establishing roles like Change Managers is crucial for maintaining accountability and driving transformation.

• Comprehensive Planning: Multi-year strategic plans and feedback mechanisms are essential for the longevity of change initiatives.

Join the Community

With over 130,000 followers, the Chief Change Officer podcast continues to inspire and educate change leaders worldwide. Follow Vince Chan and Richard Carson on LinkedIn, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube @chiefchangeofficer to stay updated on future episodes and insights.

This summary encapsulates the first part of Richard Carson's discussion on diagnosing and managing organizational dysfunction. Stay tuned for Part Two, where Richard unveils his comprehensive 39-step change model and explores the human elements often neglected in consulting.